S03.E08: Unfit

[ferjy]

6 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

is she a repressed lesbian, was she just a jealous biddy who feels like she never got her perfect life, or is she just fucking nuts? 

I fear Aunt Lydia was loopy from the start. 

[goldilocks]

5 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

June acting like the biggest mean girl in Handmaid Valley High was laughable, it was so bad. 

 I felt like I was watching the worst Saved By The Bell episode ever, with her and the others bullying OfMatthew. 

The girls in Mean Girls look like Mother Theresa compared to the suddenly brave handmaids in this episode. The only sane one there was Janine.

[maggiegil]

22 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

I wanted to know more about the nephew

That seemed to be a much more defining moment for Lydia than what we saw in flashback or I would have loved to see her being recruited and trained to be an Aunt.

Does June really think shes off limits because shes occasionally been in videos about Nicole? If Gilead is as harsh as we've been lead to believe then they would not hesitate to replace June with another similar looking woman or put a veil on her, I presume she hasn't spoken or featured that prominently in the videos that anyone in Gilead would notice or they'd just spread a story that she died of grief for Nicole.

Ofmatthew/Natalie was only shot in the shoulder so I assume we'll see her again, probably chained up like that handmaid that tried to drink drain cleaner while pregnant.

If June is supposed to be playing the game smarter etc. why on earth does she refuse Lawrence reasonable requests. Shes seen what Lawrence can do when hes inclined to help and how much he loves his wife.

The baby died because of an umbilical cord wrapped around their neck, we know Gilead uses medicine and doesn't have a problem with ultrasounds etc If babies are so precious you think they'd be inclined to have a medical team monitoring labor (im sure it could be done from another room) and stepping in only if there was a problem. It seems like this could have been avoided/reduced risk with a fetal heart monitor or something

[AnswersWanted]

11 minutes ago, Miles said:

I thought that he might be the "nephew", too.

But if he dies now, aunt Lydia's actions won't make any sense. She took the kid from the mother, he died because of it and so she vows to take more children from their mothers? It would have made sense if he died through neglect by the mother and Lydia was blaming herself for not having had the boy taken away.

The only thing I can think of, and it's a definite stretch, is that maybe Noelle went bonkers, as a woman who has had her child snatched away would, and she somehow got Ryan back but he perished, or maybe they both die, leaving Lydia to resent and hate Noelle for being so "seflish" and that is what breathed life into her aunt persona for Gilead.

She decides that selfish, wicked women like Noelle should have their children removed and placed with "good families", and then they should atone for their sins, yadda ya, as handmaids so that way they can never be a danger or risk to their children again, as they're trapped in servitude to Gilead and have no personal freedoms. 

Its early and I haven't had my coffee yet so, that's the best I can manage right now, heh. And I am probably not even close to the real explanation.

I swear I can remember a time when the show actually tried to tell us a story from start to finish...

[Miles]

6 minutes ago, maggiegil said:

The baby died because of an umbilical cord wrapped around their neck, we know Gilead uses medicine and doesn't have a problem with ultrasounds etc If babies are so precious you think they'd be inclined to have a medical team monitoring labor (im sure it could be done from another room) and stepping in only if there was a problem. It seems like this could have been avoided/reduced risk with a fetal heart monitor or something

It's the writers wanting their cake and eating it, too. In the book that kind of medical technology is banned, presumably as some kind of work of the devil and replaced by weird ceremonies. But in the show it is commonly used, yet you still get the births with these weird ceremonies but without medical equipment.

Btw. I was a bit baffled that they didn't even try CPR.

[ferjy]

13 minutes ago, Miles said:

Btw. I was a bit baffled that they didn't even try CPR.

Yes! Me too. No CPR, no sweeping the mouth for obstructions when the baby came out in distress. I thought it might be that they are measures that are banned, but really it was like the dark ages. 

[revbfc]

We all know that there’s story to be told, but the producers have decided to fuck that right off to waste our time this season.   Is there even a real arc happening?  Because all I’m seeing is stuff we’ve already seen with a structurally implausible Washington Monument thrown in for good measure. 

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, Miles said:

But they didn't, did they? They said they never had a problem with her before she was posted to the waterfords and that they must be the corrupting influence...

They did say she was a bad apple in the first scene at the revolving table. Then later when it came back to the table in another scene, Aunt Lydia was carrying her file and saying that they had no problems with her before the Waterfords. That confused me. Weren’t the Waterfords June’s first placement? 

[AnswersWanted]

1 hour ago, maggiegil said:

The baby died because of an umbilical cord wrapped around their neck, we know Gilead uses medicine and doesn't have a problem with ultrasounds etc If babies are so precious you think they'd be inclined to have a medical team monitoring labor (im sure it could be done from another room) and stepping in only if there was a problem. It seems like this could have been avoided/reduced risk with a fetal heart monitor or something

I thought they were for sure going to show us a shredder baby finally, one of the deformed infants who have no chance of living. That would have worked a lot better for me. 

As it was, however, their acceptance of the baby being born with what one must assume is still a fairly common issue or at least a well understood procedure that these aunts would desperately try to attend to immediately...it makes zero sense. 

It's just more clear evidence these people, frankly the men in Gilead, really don't fucking care about these babies. They have a use for them until they don't. Just like with Holly, her usefulness is in being a bargaining chip,  not a "beloved daughter of Gilead".

The husbands/commanders couldn't care less if their women end up with a trophy rape baby to coo over. Most of them probably prefer it that way, makes it a lot easier to hang out at Jezebel's or rape and abuse their handmaids on the side if they don't have to play the part of doting daddy. 

The show can't even pretend there isn't a hospital these women can be sent to at any time their pregnancies begin to prove dangerous and concerning.

Yet babies are the future? Fuck off, show.

43 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Weren’t the Waterfords June’s first placement?

They were her second posting, if she hadn't gotten pregnant by Nick, or delivered Holly alive, then she would have been moved a third time before her time would be up.

Handmaids get three chance postings during their initial run of two years to prove their fertility, and they have to get pregnant and deliver a healthy baby to boot or else they will be deemed Unwomen and shipped off to the colonies to die.

What fun eh...

[Baltimore Betty]

This episode was really dark, I did not see or hear that the baby died because the cord was wrapped around it's neck.  The writers could have had June go to the basinette and try some compressions on the baby's chest and bring it back, she would be untouchable (and even more insufferable) after that.

And honestly, Lydia asking her to call her friends off the pregnant HM, her answer made it sound like bad dialogue from some teen movie and June was the snotty cheerleader talking to the school principal!

So we got a blood bath in this episode but they killed or seriously wounded a pregnant handmaid, isn't that against the law, putting a child in danger?

Poor Janine, she just cannot get a break! First she looses and eye then almost gets stoned to death and now beaten down with a can of lobster chowder.

Lydia's back story was not that bad but I want to know what happened to her sister's baby she talked about in an episode before Holly was born.

[showme]

Did I miss something? but I don't understand how the black maid suddenly go nuts, how did it happen? Does June have mind controlling power now? This is so weird.

[AnswersWanted]

15 minutes ago, showme said:

Did I miss something? but I don't understand how the black maid suddenly go nuts, how did it happen? Does June have mind controlling power now? This is so weird.

No, you missed nothing, they gave us nothing to explain her rapid descent into madness to such a degree.

Being upset and feeling alone is one thing, this chick lost every bit of her shit because June stared at her basically like the Joker on acid. 

They decided another handmaid had to pull a Emily, that's precisely what this scene reminded me of except in Emily's case we knew exactly what caused her to snap, crackle, and pop off, and we had been building up to it for weeks. 

But these writers just cared about having more mayhem suddenly go down, with June at the center of it all as always.

The way she waggled her eyebrows at Ofmatthew and used her eyes to gesture towards Lydia right before she pointed the gun at her definitely gave me telekinesis vibes as well. 

It was quite possibly the most ridiculous scene this show has aired so far.

And last season we had a magic wolf...I am actually nearly dumbfounded they found a way to top themselves, but yet I know I shouldn't be.

[The Mighty Peanut]

8 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

June should just go ahead and be revealed as fucking Batman and Gilead is her Gotham. If they want to write this shit so cartoonish and cheesy, then go all the way. 

Yes! A hat signal for when a handmaid is in jeopardy. Then June comes and puts them in worse jeopardy. 

"I have to make a treacherous escape across the border, I only have a 50/50 chance of survival!"

"I'm on it, here's my infant daughter." 

The possibilities are truly endless.

Edited July 10, 2019 by The Mighty Peanut

[AnswersWanted]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Yes! A hat signal for when a handmaid is in jeopardy. Then June comes and puts them in worse jeopardy. 

Hah! Double jeopardy just took on a whole new meaning.

BatJune (swoops down from the shadows) Fear not, lowly citizen handmaid, I saw the signal and-

Handmaid (currently hiding in the bushes) : You’ve come to rescue me??

BatJune: Why would I do that? You have those safety bushes anyway. What I was wondering is do you happen to know where they took my daughter by any chance...? 

Handmaid: No, I...but I have a daughter too, her name is Ma-

BatJune: Whoops, time flies when you don’t care. Anyhoodles, I’m sure it’ll all work out for ya. Oh look, here come some helpful dudes in vans! They’re sure to give you a lift!

Handmaid: Wait!!

BatJune: Gotta go, it’s scrabble night and I have the perfect 12 letter word score! 

Also this review, I want to share wine and cheese crackers with it.

It’s nice to see even some of the more ardent reviewers are throwing up their hands at this point. The show is just too messy and discombobulated to keep defending. 

“Unfit” is the worst episode of The Handmaid’s Tale Yet

I just want that title alone quoted at Miller and Littlefield through the world’s largest and loudest megaphone for days and days and days straight. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Penman61]

[Me, at that penultimate long, static shot of June standing in the trail of blood)]:

Well, at least this episode isn't ending another closeup of Moss's (admirably tiny) nose pores...

[Me, milliseconds later, as the camera inexorably swoops into yet another goddamn motherfucking closeup of Moss's nose pores to end an episode]:

Jesus tapdancing Christ.

[gesundheit]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I also liked seeing how the Aunt's "work."

That was mildly interesting. And it was nice to see another Orange is the New Black alum (same casting director?). 

That's all I got in the "positive" column.

7 hours ago, Miles said:

I think we all forgot some really really bad DUMB that was frontloaded in the episode, because of all of the DUMB throughout the rest.

They basically told us that June isn't getting punished because she needs to be camera ready. She even mentions her tounge getting cut out. What the hell does she need her tounge for, to stand on TV with a scarf in front of her face?! There are also a bunch of other punishments that wouldn't be visible when she is fully clothed.

Yeah, but I think it meant "Yeah shoot aunt Lydia. I know we both feel like Emily did before she stuck a knife in Lydia's back, because I'm psychic now." At least that's how I interpreted her little internal speach beforehand.

Yes and yes. Honestly I think the first half was even dumber than the second.

And yeah, that was her telepathic "shoot Lydia" look, not a "shoot me" look.

Just... take us back to Canada. I couldn't care less about June or Lydia or the Waterfords. I should just go back to fast-forwarding Gilead scenes but then I'd have to skip whole episodes, and there's sadly nothing else to watch on Wednesdays during the summer. So my hands are tied!

[mamadrama]

At this point I don't think the showrunners give a flying fuck about plot or characterization-I think they're more obsessed with cinematography. Admittedly there are some beautifully shot scenes here and there but good holy golf balls I'm starting to rage watch it. 

[scrb]

I guess June was in a funk because of having Hanna taken away and she has no way to find her, much less reach her.

So she didn't do her duties with the birth mother and she ran the Mean Girls brigade.

I don't think it would take much for the other Handmaids to shun and bully OfMatthew.

Nobody like a narc.

But they really didn't establish that OfMatthew was so fragile that she'd lash out from that treatment.

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

But they really didn't establish that OfMatthew was so fragile that she'd lash out from that treatment.

We really don'tknow enough about OfMatthew for her total breakdown after a little bullying to make sense. Hell, we don't even know if she had truly drank the Gilead coolaid or if she was playing the long game. So her total flip felt unearned imo.

Honestly, I still can't get over how cheesetastic and over the top the last scene was. Like, OfMatthew and that every so symbolic and angsty artsy near back flip she did when she got struck by that bullet-I get it, she's a small women and she likely got hit by a large bullet, but come on! And June with her god complex and smirking face close up-do I really need to be intimately acquainted with Liz's moles? Are they trying to make an Emmy reel, too? These writers need to be replaced if Hulu hopes to keep this show around, and not just as a joke.

[Armchair Critic]

So since Lydia couldn't get the D she went off the rails? HA

[Whimsy]

14 hours ago, bluestocking said:

I think June actually gave Ofmatthew a little nod when she aimed the gun at her, almost as if to say 'go ahead and shoot me.' Did I just imagine that?

I saw the look, but like @gesundheit says below, I think she was trying to either convey to shoot Lydia (I thought her look was of pure glee when she pointed the gun that way) or even herself.  

2 hours ago, gesundheit said:

And yeah, that was her telepathic "shoot Lydia" look, not a "shoot me" look.

13 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

On top of how obnoxious it was to reduce Lydia's backstory to some version of "WOMAN SCORNED BECOMES CRAZY BITTER BE-YOTCH!!!" (you know this show's got men behind it with that one), I also failed to see how it had anything to do with the bit we'd been offered before -- something with her nephew and "it wasn't my fault"? Am I misremembering that piece of info? Because I was waiting for that.

She did say "it wasn't my fault" but I'm thinking now, after seeing that flashback, that she meant it wasn't her fault he was taken away from his mother. 

10 hours ago, Miles said:

I thought the mother was going to cause the death of the child. Thus driving aunt Lydia to extreme measures to ensure that future children will be save. Maybe Lydia even prevented CPS from taking the boy, because after getting to know the mother, she thought she could handle it. That would have made it extra tragic.

I thought this as well.  That the mother turns to drugs or gets in a car accident or something to cause his death. 

10 hours ago, ferjy said:

Yep, what I thought was going to happen with Aunt Lydia's back story happened. They made a mess of that too. Could it have been any more pathetic? And not a mention of the nephew that died, that might have been somewhat interesting at least. Another thing they’ve forgotten was mentioned.  Instead we get some contrived plot about rejection. The guy didn’t even dump her, he just said he wasn’t ready to sleep with her yet. How desperate can you be to get laid? Good God, these writers must be on acid when they’re scripting these scenes. 

They never explicitly said he died, if I am remembering correctly.  I thought Aunt Lydia just said "it wasn't my fault" and then everyone just assumed he died. 

8 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

I wonder since the boy started calling Lydia "Aunt Lydia"  before she had him stolen from his mother, he could be the "nephew" in qiestion, maybe she kept in touch with him, but of course the show probably won't care to clarify anything that happened in this episode until "whenever, never, make us". 

I think this as well, otherwise why would he even call her "aunt Lydia"? 

8 hours ago, alexvillage said:

The flip-flopping on the white supremacy ideal of Gilead seems to be exactly what was mentioned here: a fuck you to critics of the show - I am not using the quotes because there are too many great comments here.

I'm not necessarily saying the writers are flip-flopping, but there are racist people even in this diverse world.  That Commander and wife could just be racist assholes. 

I, like many of you, have lost all interest or care or anything in June.  This episode, though, I flat out hate her.  There is nothing good about her.  For her to be so smug and Godfather-like in her bullying of OfMatthew and then not caring at all when Janine was getting beat to shit again.  I'm just 100% done with her.  

[Umbelina]

AV Club

Ann Dowd is an incredible talent. To the extent that “Unfit” works, it works because she (and Elisabeth Moss) can make just about anything work. As a collection of scenes, the Aunt Lydia portions of this episode tell a reasonably interesting story; the idea of exploring how the roots of a person’s religious fundamentalism can be linked to entitlement, rage, and especially shame makes a lot of sense for this show, which has sometimes neglected to dig into what led to the creation of Gilead, not in terms of story, but in terms of the world. (Serena Joy’s inability to get pregnant and/or getting shot in the lower abdomen does not count.)

....

Ann Dowd is terrific. So is Elizabeth Moss. So, in her brief scenes here, is Madeline Brewer. So is Ashleigh LaThrop, who does exactly what’s asked of her here as Ofmatthew, bewildering and inconsistent though it may be. And this is the point where I’d normally praise the cinematography and direction, but not this time. Bonnet-cams and gun-barrel POVs can’t keep this from being a near-disaster of an episode. It’s possible this is all building somewhere great, and if so, I’ll eat some of these words—but not all of them. As one story, it’s a huge misfire. As one piece of a larger story, it might fare better, but that’s one loaded might.

[Penman61]

Wait, how have we not talked about the outro music choice?

"Que Sera, Sera" by Doris Day?

The popular song equivalent of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

Since I'm sneer-watching at this point, I choose to think this is the writers' subconscious cry for help, like, "Hey, what can we do about the WRITING, you should try WRITING, it's hard to do WRITING, and anyway nothing matters, lol, what will be, will be?"

(Also bonus PSA: Doris Day was a phenomenally nuanced vocal talent way, way beyond that overplayed chestnut. RIP.)

Edited July 10, 2019 by Penman61

[rubinia]

15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I liked June this time, there is change, progress, she's reached the "I have zero fucks to give" stage...finally.

Uh, she has reached and then left that stage over and over throughout the last two seasons. That’s one of the things about this show that’s getting old.

So June can attack a *pregnant* handmaid with no consequences, but when said pregnant handmaid attacks Janine the guards immediately come over to grab her? Yeah, sure.

[Umbelina]

Quote

Quote

The Handmaid's Tale keeps trying to make Aunt Lydia happen, and she's not going to happen. While it's true Ann Dowd is a powerhouse actress who deserves all the recognition this show has brought her, I'm becoming less and less interested in her character by the week. Especially after watching her long-awaited backstory.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/tv/a28351186/the-handmaids-tale-season-3-episode-8-aunt-lydia-past/

Quote

“Thank God for the writers, because their way into her I thought was so beautiful because it involved heartbreak,” Dowd told Vulture. “It involved what the power of shame really is and what the power of shame can do to derail a life — the thoughts of what could have been for her, if only she could have let the shame down. But she couldn’t do it.”

https://www.vulture.com/2019/07/the-handmaids-tale-ann-dowd-aunt-lydia-backstory.html

Quote

“I was raised in a loving home, but there was huge shame around sex,” Dowd says, trying to understand her character. “You have to wait for marriage. It’s the work of the devil. Women take a backseat. So this made so much sense to me, the fact that she went a little further than he was ready to go. There’s shame that she did it because she’s the woman and she shouldn’t have done it. If it hadn’t been for Noelle, Lydia wouldn’t have taken those steps, so I think she connects those things. I better stick to the original plan. I will continue to teach. I do not want romance, sexuality in my life, and I will not allow half-baked mothers to keep their children.”

Quote

“So much of this season with Lydia is about losing control, and in those moments where she feels like she’s lost control, she’s humiliated,” showrunner Bruce Miller said. The writers had discussed Lydia’s backstory since they began developing the show, and in “Unfit,” they chose to jump all the way back to a pre-Gilead period to illustrate how shame and humilation have played a crucial role in her life. “What I was looking for in her past was, What does feeling humiliated do to her? These are core things that don’t really have anything to do with Gilead,” Miller said. “In some ways, what I wanted to show is that Lydia is just as unforgiving to herself as she is to everybody else. That doesn’t make her a good person. But it certainly is interesting.”

Edited July 10, 2019 by Umbelina

[Baltimore Betty]

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

"Que Sera, Sera" by Doris Day?

The words are I asked my mother what shall I be, etc...well, in Gilead her choices are not many.

BTW, is it too late to get another actress to play June?  If I haven't invested so much time in this show I would stop watching, the sneering, cocky attitude and smart answers make me wonder how she is still alive!

[mamadrama]

44 minutes ago, rubinia said:

Uh, she has reached and then left that stage over and over throughout the last two seasons. That’s one of the things about this show that’s getting old.

So June can attack a *pregnant* handmaid with no consequences, but when said pregnant handmaid attacks Janine the guards immediately come over to grab her? Yeah, sure.

Seriously. Characters generally have arcs-the grow, change, and adapt to their situations. But that's not what I feel is going on here. These people are bouncing back and forth from Personality A to Personality B faster than Forrest Gump playing ping pong. There's almost zero nuance. And worse, the writers have the characters continue to do the same thing over and over so that the audience can "get" how the character feels; only, it's coming across almost like they're trolling us at this point. For the last 3 episodes I've felt like someone was hitting me over the head with a hammer while telling me that they were hitting me. 

[DuckyinKy]

When OfMatthew had the gun, June gave her the creepy Gilead yard stare and nodded toward Aunt Lydia, did anyone notice Aunt Lydia called her by her real name "Natalie," I think that may be the first time we've heard her real name. 

And I'm sorry, but the preview for next week with June asking Serena to come talk to her, while holding a scalpel behind her back? The "it's a secret" make me think it's written by the people who write Sharknado. 

[kieyra]

By the way, season 3 of Harlots premieres on Hulu tonight. It’s another show about women trying to survive in a society where their only asset/value is their body. Only it’s, you know, good. (Also has female creators / writers / show-runners / etc.) If you’re already paying for Hulu anyway it’s worth checking out. 

https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/3092-harlots/

Topic: I believe this is the lowest score I’ve seen AV Club give the show (or any show in recent memory), D+:

https://tv.avclub.com/even-the-great-ann-dowd-can-t-salvage-a-baffling-infur-1836248612

And to quote a commenter on that article:

”These show writers would show us Hitler being bullied by a Jewish kid.”

Edited July 10, 2019 by kieyra

[Angry Moldovan]

I was actually excited when we saw the start of Lydia’s flashbacks. I thought perhaps her nephew died whilst she was still working as attorney and by going into teaching she was atoning for her sin. She certainly likes it to be known how much she cares for the children. Her disdain for the mother was there, hinting at what she was about to become. Then there’s the date and Lydia’s lusty ways are displayed. I understand the shame and regret ( been there, done that). She smashes the mirror in self disgust, but then what?? It’s quite a huge jump from self loathing to Aunt. Or is it? There needed to be another flashback to make her jump into being an Aunt. How was she recruited? Did she seek out the church? Was she always a part of the church? The church must have been in power at the time of informing child services because the charge was morality.

[Angry Moldovan]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

The words are I asked my mother what shall I be, etc...well, in Gilead her choices are not many.

BTW, is it too late to get another actress to play June?  If I haven't invested so much time in this show I would stop watching, the sneering, cocky attitude and smart answers make me wonder how she is still alive!

The closeups are becoming too cliched, you have to brace yourself for them. Despite that and the terrible script, the cinematography was stunning. Obviously that’s more important than an engaging story. I don’t know how much more I can watch.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Angry Moldolvian

[Miles]

1 hour ago, DuckyinKy said:

And I'm sorry, but the preview for next week with June asking Serena to come talk to her, while holding a scalpel behind her back? The "it's a secret" make me think it's written by the people who write Sharknado. 

How dare you compare these writers to the ones of Sharknado?!.. The Sharknado writers are way better and know exactly what they are doing. ;D

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I'm not necessarily saying the writers are flip-flopping, but there are racist people even in this diverse world.  That Commander and wife could just be racist assholes. 

If Gilead wasn't racist and they valued children, no matter the race above all, you'd expect the aunts to say "They don't want a handmaid of color? Well though, then they aren't going to get any."

After all how we've recently retconed, these commanders in Boston are all realtively low level, even though some of them are the architects of Gilead... I mean, whatever...

Also handmaids are supposed to be a rare comodity. Not even enough for all the commanders to go around. Of course now they seem to be growing on trees... I mean, whatever...

[scrb]

I would imagine the capital of Gilead, or the ones with the top-level Commanders, would be whichever city still had the most palatial homes available for them to inhabit.

I guess they'd want it the furthest away from hostile forces.  Maybe Washington has some buildings hardened against car bombs and such.  They could have barriers which come up from the road to prevent people from driving right near or into buildings.

As far as them introducing new commanders, yeah they never really described the hierarchy.  They just showed that Sons of whatever group that Nick got recruited into.  That head guy got killed I guess.

That brings up another problem with Gilead.  There is no single charismatic leader who made these people kill and enslave millions of their fellow Americans.  A lot of people can have similar beliefs from reading books or propaganda or whatever.

But there needs to be a figure who not only delivers and repeatedly hammers home this message but has to embody it, make people do extreme things.

I just don't buy that Aunt Lydia  trying to stir up Handmaids to kill traitors or rapists would be effective enough.  There has to be a larger than life figure who can say things that the followers buy almost completely.

Does Nazism get far for instance without Hitler?  Instead, they just had Himmler behind the scenes, a lot of lower-level supervisors and a dozen generals?

Edited July 10, 2019 by scrb

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Angry Moldolvian said:

The closeups are becoming too cliched, you have to brace yourself for them. Despite that and the terrible script, the cinematography was stunning. Obviously that’s more important than an engaging story. I don’t know how much more I can watch.

Is the cinematography really stunning? I’m sincerely asking. I don’t have much of an eye for that kind of thing unless it’s blowing the back of your head off like Legion.

But I watched the clip of the final/shooting scene and two things looked weird and cheesy to me: 1) the way the gun was somehow completely immobilized when the handmaid was facing us and holding it at arm’s length deciding who to shoot. It was like bad CGI, or they had bolted the gun to the camera or something? And 2) the bonnet’s-eye view during the same sequence. Both of these looked ... video-gamey.

Disclaimer: I’ve watched almost none of the rest of this season, and all I remember is Yvonne S and her big eyes/crocodile tears.

Edited July 11, 2019 by kieyra

[Baltimore Betty]

18 minutes ago, scrb said:

There is no single charismatic leader who made these people kill and enslave millions of their fellow Americans.

You are absolutely right. I would think there would be some sort of public announcements or video billboards that people would gather in front of to hear the latest message from the head sicko in charge.  Someone has to get the people energized and reminded what the mission is, right?

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

29 minutes ago, scrb said:

There is no single charismatic leader who made these people kill and enslave millions of their fellow Americans.

You are absolutely right. I would think there would be some sort of public announcements or video billboards that people would gather in front of to hear the latest message from the head sicko in charge.  Someone has to get the people energized and reminded what the mission is, right?

Maybe, if people were elected to lead that would be true.

These guys though?  Who were undoubtedly heavy with top military people?  KILLED all of their opposition, so they didn't need to rally or convince anyone.  They blamed Islamic Terrorists, and inspired patriotism and then killed the protesters and intelligentsia and the press who might have had voices to oppose the immediately declared martial law, and then?  Martial Law never left.

Before that of course, many of the other people had been won over because of the drastic drop in white births, and the devastation of nuclear power plant melt downs and the disastrous effects of climate change.

This was mostly a FORCE take over, not winning hearts and minds.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Umbelina

[scrb]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Maybe, if people were elected to lead that would be true.

These guys though?  Who were undoubtedly heavy with top military people?  KILLED all of their opposition, so they didn't need to rally or convince anyone.  They blamed Islamic Terrorists, and inspired patriotism and then killed the protesters and intelligentsia and the press who might have had voices to oppose the immediately declared martial law, and then?  Martial Law never left.

Before that of course, many of the other people had been won over because of the drastic drop in white births, and the devastation of nuclear power plant melt downs and the disastrous effects of climate change.

This was mostly a FORCE take over, not winning hearts and minds.

Sure Hitler, Mussolini and others were nominally elected.

King Jong Un may also have won elections.

Maybe authoritarians just rule and people cower in fear.

But these personalities do inspire the troops, the true believers, to commit atrocities against those who don't comply.

I think when Egypt fell, the army ruled but they had no public face nor one single figure to rally around.  They did overthrow one guy who was elected but not sure if they have some leader figure now.

Similar things with the military junta who rule Thailand.

But these countries aren't going to be much of a threat to other nations nor have a big totalitarian govt.

Look at the counter examples.  Tito kept ethnic rivals from getting at each other's throats.  As soon as he died, the ethnic factions elected their own leaders and one of them basically egged them on to ethnic cleansing and such.

Just as preachers and priests must energize the flock, inspire to keep turning out on Sundays, countries must have true believers having tight reins over each of their fiefdoms. And those true believers must have someone bigger than them to look up to, to take their cues from.

If you've seen Chernobyl, look at the way some of the top apparatchiks get their men to basically give up their lives or health to clean up the site.  They give big speeches about their country and people buy in, basically taking (nuclear) bullets for their country.

[PepSinger]

Y’all. Y’ALL. Grown ass women sat in a circle pointing at another woman calling her a “crybaby.” It was so fucking embarrassing.

I don’t even recognize this show anymore.

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Y’all. Y’ALL. Grown ass women sat in a circle pointing at another woman calling her a “crybaby.” It was so fucking embarrassing.

I don’t even recognize this show anymore.

They've had handmaids sit in a circle and repeat whatever Aunt Lydia said since the beginning of the show, while pointing their fingers at the one in the middle chair.  "Her fault!"  (about someone who had been raped)

Oh, and Serena was one of the main "voices" uniting people into her brand of religion and solutions before the coup.  After the take over, they didn't need her to unite anyone, they had physical control of the populace and the country...by force.

(except for the resistance, which I think is substantial since

Spoiler

it eventually wins and takes over Gilead.)

I think what this episode was trying to do with June's part of the story, is show that she's crossed over, she would rather die than not fight the forces in Gilead.  She's full on anti Gilead now, I'm supposing since the chances of rescuing her daughter now are very slim.  She has nothing more to lose, and she will be ruthless.

Or, it's just more BS they never follow up on.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Umbelina

[PepSinger]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

They've had handmaids sit in a circle and repeat whatever Aunt Lydia said since the beginning of the show, while pointing their fingers at the one in the middle chair.  "Her fault!"  (about someone who had been raped)

  Reveal spoiler

it eventually wins and takes over Gilead.)

Doesn’t make it any less shitty or unintentionally hilarious.

[dmc]

someone explain to me why June has ALL this empathy for Serena and Fred but ZERO for OfMatthew?  Perhaps the empathy should go to the slave that was raped repeatedly and lost her children... June.  also where's the accountability for getting someone killed just to "visit" your daughter...not help her escape...a five min visit

[Joana]

OK, this has to be some sort of parody of The Handmaid's Tale and the real S3 is yet to be released? Because, what the hell is this. They're not even trying anymore.

June can do literally whatever she wants. Last week she tried to kill a pregnant woman. The biggest crime imaginable in Gilead, right? Not only are there no consequences (to quote Aunt Lydia's favourite phrase), but it's not even mentioned. Remember when handmaids used to be beaten to a pulp for speaking out of turn? Now they can gang up on, again, A PREGNANT WOMAN, and obviously and unabashedly bully her in public, and no one gives a single crap, Aunt Lydia included. Remember when Alma seemed like she could be an interesting character? Such a shame she's been reduced to a member of June's Mean Handmaids clique. 

I've stopped feeling sorry for June in any shape and form and I spent the whole episode hoping someone would smack her in the face. Oh, and I call total BS on the McKenzies relocating. Yeah, uprooting your entire life and moving to a secret location because a random handmaid keeps pestering you is so much easier than, you know, getting rid of the pestering handmaid. But of course, she's so special.

Aunt Lydia's backstory had so much potential. What do we get? She turned into a sadistic monster because a man rejected her. Well, of course, OF COURSE. What else could possibly motivate a woman??! 

I wish they'd just put Janine out of her misery. It's not that I want her dead, hell, she's probably the most sympathetic character left (and also, you know it's bad when Janine of all people is the only person acting sensibly in the entire episode), but I literally can't stand to watch the poor thing being beaten and abused all the bloody time. 

[kieyra]

23 minutes ago, Joana said:

hell, she's probably the most sympathetic character left

I’m pretty sure this is why the showrunners make sure she (Janine) gets regular beatings. 

[Scarlett45]

You know what I noticed about the Aunt Lydia flashback? The world looks “normal”, but the flashback is certainly in the early days of Gilead- the child protective worker asked about church attendance? She said they had a responsibility to report “moral weakness”? On her New Year’s Eve date she said that all of Family Law services had been privatized??? Ummmm- the writers can drop hints and write something decent went they want to, those details were golden. 

The rest of Aunt Lydia’s back story didn’t make a lick of sense. That guy seemed to like her! And they had a lot in common (both teachers, religious, they went dancing); why would some crossed signals make her go from “judgy but well intentioned” to “take the boy away now”. Not a lick of sense. 

[AnswersWanted]

_

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Y’all. Y’ALL. Grown ass women sat in a circle pointing at another woman calling her a “crybaby.” It was so fucking embarrassing.

I don’t even recognize this show anymore.

Preach.

It was like we’d entered the Handmaid Nursery School in the middle of class right after one of the girls had been “naughty”. 

It was such a pathetic attempt to recapture the same horror scene we witnessed in season 1. That was such a belittling and dehumanizing experience to witness. This? Was positively shameful. 

They’re so far off the mark they cannot even manage to match what they’ve already done before. It’s astounding that these writers keep mining the same shit pit and they just go deeper and deeper. 

39 minutes ago, Joana said:

OK, this has to be some sort of parody of The Handmaid's Tale and the real S3 is yet to be released? Because, what the hell is this. They're not even trying anymore.

At this point they should have just left in that entire cast dance sequence to the Taylor Swift song, it would have fit in just fine. In fact it would have worked better than 95% of this season has managed to. 

41 minutes ago, Joana said:

Aunt Lydia's backstory had so much potential. What do we get? She turned into a sadistic monster because a man rejected her. Well, of course, OF COURSE. What else could possibly motivate a woman??! 

But she did her hair and makeup though. Her HAIR AND MAKEUP!! And she wore SEQUINS!!!

What is a woman if she can’t get a man to give it to her? Well she becomes a bitter aunt who encourages rape and torture, that’s what.

So remember ladies, if you don’t get the “d” there’s no point in living life for yourself, none whatsoever, just give up.

Give up and make sure the whole world BURNS!!!!!!

THT just throwing down all the “More You Know” gems left and right. 

[Joana]

41 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

You know what I noticed about the Aunt Lydia flashback? The world looks “normal”, but the flashback is certainly in the early days of Gilead- the child protective worker asked about church attendance? She said they had a responsibility to report “moral weakness”? On her New Year’s Eve date she said that all of Family Law services had been privatized??? Ummmm- the writers can drop hints and write something decent went they want to, those details were golden. 

To me it looked like it was set in the time just before the "revolution", with Gilead not being officially in power yet, but with the society becoming more conservative in general and the Sons of Jacob possibly having infiltrated the government and amended the laws to suit their agenda. It guess it could be around the time June was chastised for sending her sick daughter to school. To me, that period is extremely interesting and I'd like to see more flashbacks exploring it - if they make sense, that is, which is really questionable now with this show.

The problem I have with this timeline is that it doesn't really allow much space for Aunt Lydia to go from a fairly run-of-the-mill conservative Christian to a raging fundamentalist, already ranked highly enough within the Sons of Jacob to be entrusted with the duty of an Aunt.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Joana

[rubinia]

The thing that bugged me about Lydia’s backstory was that yes, the guy rejected her, but only because he said it was too soon after his wife’s death. Embarrassing, definitely, but it’s not as if he recoiled in horror and called her ugly and disgusting or anything. He said he wanted to “see” her again... Not that that makes her actions any more reasonable, but...

[DesertCyclist]

It's very difficult to watch a show when you don't like the protagonist.

[angora]

I thought it was less about Lydia being rejected and more about the rejection snapping her out of her "lust" to realize her "sin." It wasn't that he didn't want to sleep with her; it was that she tried to go further than he wanted when she's not "supposed" to be the one wanting that at all. It made her feel disgusted with and ashamed of herself, and she, it seems, blamed Noelle for "goading" her on and "making" her sin.

Even though she's less forthright about her opinion on Noelle earlier in the flashbacks than she is as an Aunt (she doesn't go around calling Noelle "whore," for example,) it's clear that Lydia judges Noelle for her sexuality/relationships with men/thoughts about sexuality in general (that face when Noelle asks if she has "a boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever"!) By giving in, however briefly, to her own sexual desires, Lydia feels dirty like she thinks Noelle is, and I think that's more of what makes her lash out.

That's how I saw it anyway, filtered through my strong Protestant upbringing where what I learned about sex was super-conservative.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, angora said:

I thought it was less about Lydia being rejected and more about the rejection snapping her out of her "lust" to realize her "sin." It wasn't that he didn't want to sleep with her; it was that she tried to go further than he wanted when she's not "supposed" to be the one wanting that at all. It made her feel disgusted with and ashamed of herself, and she, it seems, blamed Noelle for "goading" her on and "making" her sin.

Even though she's less forthright about her opinion on Noelle earlier in the flashbacks than she is as an Aunt (she doesn't go around calling Noelle "whore," for example,) it's clear that Lydia judges Noelle for her sexuality/relationships with men/thoughts about sexuality in general (that face when Noelle asks if she has "a boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever"!) By giving in, however briefly, to her own sexual desires, Lydia feels dirty like she thinks Noelle is, and I think that's more of what makes her lash out.

That's how I saw it anyway, filtered through my strong Protestant upbringing where what I learned about sex was super-conservative.

That's how I saw it too.

Her SIN shamed her, and it was a lesson to her about what straying from God's laws does, brings misery.

I bet she never strays again.  She was humiliated, thus proving that her bible was true, and if anything, made her even more rigid about "sin" and that most certainly included her lust and wanting fornication (both no nos)