S21.E02: Season Premiere (Part 2)

[Nashville]

Kemi (verbatim): “I feel like a lot of people are going up to Jackson and asking him not to put them up, but I just don’t feel the need to do that because until I figure you out, I’m not scratching your back - because my back hasn’t been scratched either.”

Me (also verbatim): “That may very well be one of THE most fucking stupid things I’ve ever heard someone say on this show.”

[Growsonwalls]

8 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Kemi (verbatim): “I feel like a lot of people are going up to Jackson and asking him not to put them up, but I just don’t feel the need to do that because until I figure you out, I’m not scratching your back - because my back hasn’t been scratched either.”

Me (also verbatim): “That may very well be one of THE most fucking stupid things I’ve ever heard someone say on this show.”

Ok, sometimes that 'don't mind me, I'm here but not here' strategy can work. In S10 Dan was sort of like that in the first half of the game. In BB17 Steve was also sort of like that. The only thing with Dan was that behind that Catholic schoolboy persona was a total sociopath, and Steve was a challenge whore who ended up dominating the jury portion of the game by winning so many HoH's. 

[Katesus7]

Cool, I have my first complete hatred of the season. Jackson is so far up his own ass, he’s practically a donut at this point. While I agree his picks all had some “reasons”, it all just seemed a bit sketchy to me. I hate this alliance, even though I like the women in it, and want it broken up immediately. Which means it will last the summer.

@peachmangosteen I might be playing your role this summer, of the person who hates everything! 

[Blissfool]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Kemi (verbatim): “I feel like a lot of people are going up to Jackson and asking him not to put them up, but I just don’t feel the need to do that because until I figure you out, I’m not scratching your back - because my back hasn’t been scratched either.”

Me (also verbatim): “That may very well be one of THE most fucking stupid things I’ve ever heard someone say on this show.”

And now when she goes up to Jackson and asks why she was chosen, he can say, "well, you were the only one that didn't scratch my back, aka make an effort to talk to me beforehand.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Ok, sometimes that 'don't mind me, I'm here but not here' strategy can work

But Kemi’s statement wasn’t that; as near as I can figure, Kemi was laboring under the delusion(s) that (a) she was operating with some degree of power parity to the newly-coined Camp Director*, and (b) Jackson should be offering HER something in exchange for her... asking him not to put her up...???

...I dunno - it doesn’t make sense to me either.

* Hint: she wasn’t.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Nashville

[LoveLeigh]

51 minutes ago, Katesus7 said:

Cool, I have my first complete hatred of the season. Jackson is so far up his own ass, he’s practically a donut at this point. While I agree his picks all had some “reasons”, it all just seemed a bit sketchy to me. 

I cannot stand that pompous ass, Jackson. He wants to leave with confetti on his shoulders? He is like some high school jock who becomes the big man on campus. So obnoxious.

I liked David. I wanted him to be around for a long time. "For now" he is gone. I think Grodner is pissed he lost that comp. I think Grodner has something up her sleeve to bring back David. He was not as dispensable as one of the others who to me are "fillers." I think that is why Julie hinted that next week something will happen that never happened before. The manipulation is already happening. We have not seen the last of David. 

I am glad. But I think if David does not get back in the house, it would be great to give him AFP. 😀

Edited June 27, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[jonaswan2]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I know. I really wonder what would happen if they cast someone like Cirie on the show. 

But maybe they cast really strong confrontational women because they don't want a Candace redux. Candace was a fairly pleasant, normal, bubbly (if slightly shallow) pageant queen type and her treatment by Aaryn and Gina Marie was horrific and she spent the entire summer alone and crying. So ... maybe they just don;t want that to repeat itself?

I think Chima and her explosiveness was more of a factor. They've been casting "pretty black girl with sass" since, even including Candice.

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think that is why Julie hinted that next week something will happen that never happened before. The manipulation is already happening.

Expect the unexpected! Which has been a threat and a promise...

But, he didn't get voted out so maybe he's going to hang with Reem on the Edge of Banishment.

Or he'll come back as the camp computer!! That worked out soooo well last year!

Edited June 27, 2019 by Wandering Snark

[Iguana]

Jeez, Julie. What the hell are you wearing???  Babydoll pink lace last night and late 80’s spring formal prom dress tonight. I wouldn’t have thought you pissed off the costume department this early in the season, although Mr. Moonves did spread himself around...

In actual game comments, shoutin’ Sam must turn down the volume or I’m going to get a truck and make me some roadkill. Speaking of roadkill, I’ll also aim for that stupid squirrel too.  I’m already bored by the camp theme so I think it could be a loooong summer. 

[Wandering Snark]

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

I really like Holly but I'm pretty sure she said “your girl” and that is strike one.

She did, during the comp she said something like "Your girl is hurtin'" *sigh* But I'm willing to look past it this once as I do really like her. I also think she's the best looking in the house.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Wandering Snark

[mertensia]

Tommy sounds like Mario Cantone to me 

I thought Julie's dress was pretty and summery.

Jackson. People are allowed to go for things like Camp Director. You are so that guy who goes to Disneyland and has a meltdown because someone ahead of you in Big Thunder Mountain Railway's line had the nerve to ask for row one before you could.

[phlebas]

I realized my Pretend TV Girlfriend this summer is Nicole.  Five seconds later, I realized I have a type.

I hope she stays awkward and quirky and maybe steers clear of the Sam track of sociopathic and curb-stompy. 

And I really hope she outlasts Trucky McTruckface

[cork dork]

9 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

SAM: PLEASE TAKE THE VOLUME DOWN ABOUT 7,000 NOTCHES, OR I WILL NOT SURVIVE THE SEASON.

Maybe one of the sound guys will snap and sew his mouth shut while he sleeps. 

I mean, I never met Sam Kinneson yet I’m pretty sure that not only did he have an indoor voice, he was, in fact, quite adept at using it. 

This particular Sam? He’s set a record for making my slapping hand go directly to stabby. I hope he wakes up afflicted with incurable laryngitis. I loathe him. 

[North of Eden]

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

But, he didn't get voted out so maybe he's going to hang with Reem on the Edge of Banishment.

LOL! That was great!

[Halting Hex]

9 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Kemi isn’t nice. That’s all.

Kemi, "the Pearl of the Bothnian Sea", looks absolutely nice and I would love to visit.  (Kemi, the contestant, leaves something to be desired, I'll agree.) I do find it amusing that an African-American woman has the same name as what must surely be one of the Whitest Places on Earth, though.

I don't think that Jackson chose to banish Cliff/Jessica/David/Kemi because he was being consciously racist, but…I do think he lacks the awareness to take a look back and realize he was kicking 3 of the 4 non-white HGs out of the house and consider how racist that might look.  And, given that this is a game where advantages are sometimes voted on by the viewership, that's a look Mr. Michie might not want to have.  

There's really no reason he couldn't have subbed Paul Lynde, er Original Sam Smith, out for David, for example.  Yes, David threw his hat into the ring before you did, but he got exactly zero votes (and, as noted upthread, not even anyone to lament his possible exit in the DR), so he doesn't seem like much of a threat to be leading a coup.  Meanwhile Sam appears to be somewhat strong and Jackson has, apparently, never even considered aligning with him.  So there's no reason Whistlenut 2.0 couldn't have been sent back to the interstate.

(Not to mention that losing Sam would mean I wouldn't have to hear any more of Sam's DRs, but ol' Legohead has been spared those, so he doesn't know what he's been [fortunately] missing…)

Quote

LEGOHEAD:  David doesn't seem all that thrilled about this proposition [being "a pawn"] I've been giving him.  His facial expression says it all.

Actually, Mr. Michie, I think the part where David flat-out said "I would rather not" to you pretty much "said it all".  No means no, y'know?

Edited June 27, 2019 by Halting Hex

[Lamima]

11 hours ago, mojoween said:

I really like Holly but I'm pretty sure she said “your girl” and that is strike one.

I see her hooking up with Jackson Hole. A la Jessica and Cody.

Also...got another reason to hate truckers!

Edited June 27, 2019 by Lamima

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Katesus7 said:

@peachmangosteen I might be playing your role this summer, of the person who hates everything! 

I would be happy to have you on my side hating everything!

That was horrible. These 2 eps are possibly the worst premiere ever. Sigh, when will I learn?

I swear, if I have to watch a 6 person alliance (of bland, white people) run the entire game unchallenged again I'm gonna lose my fucking mind. Last season was painfully boring, I can't do it again! I need them to be broken up immediately, preferably by any or all of the men being booted in quick succession. The women can stay lol.

Kemi's, "Meh, I'm not gonna talk to Jackson because he sucks," is obviously horrible strategy but it's utter entertainment for me. The game means nothing anymore anyway so who cares really. I just want to be entertained, dammit!

This Wacktivity Comp is likely to be absolutely horrible. However, if it involves them actually whacking these people then I'm cool with it.

[HighMaintenance]

Jackson "Everything is Awesome" Legohead is officially this season's 1st round, clueless villain.

Biggest laugh of the night goes to BBW, Jessica.  Making her diary room comment during the HOH comp.  She was touting how, as a big gurl, she wanted to be an inspiration to all hefty gurls that she can be a competitor too and  ..... (Cut to her ass falling off of the HOH log).  Golden!

Tommy the dansah!  Nice to know that CBS still insists that we like our gays loud and FLAAAAMING!

David, we hardly knew ye.  Although, he was bringing the ghost of Swaggy back with the "I'm Not Gon' Cry" tears in DR.  He gave me my eye roll of the night when he proclaimed he wanted to win to represent the black community as the 1st winner of BB.   David, you're never truly "gone" from BB as long as Alison Grodner has a production ace up her sleeve.

I was rather disappointed that every season's beginning is interchangeable with previous seasons: pretty people alliances on this side of the dance floor, misfits, olds, and uggos on that side.  BORING!

Sam the trucker.  Well, it's nice to know that Alison Grodner likes to have at least 1 hamster that doesn't have an inside voice.  I think that's for all the olds that watch CBS.

Also...you will never get me to watch Ultra Hetro Fame Whore Love Island!  

Edited June 27, 2019 by HighMaintenance
Had to regather my thoughts

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, cork dork said:

I mean, I never met Sam Kinneson yet I’m pretty sure that not only did he have an indoor voice, he was, in fact, quite adept at using it. 

Yes he did, and was in fact very soft-spoken in a normal conversational setting.

(Met Kennison one time back in the 80s, when he was playing Zanies in Nashville)

2 hours ago, cork dork said:

This particular Sam? He’s set a record for making my slapping hand go directly to stabby. I hope he wakes up afflicted with incurable laryngitis. I loathe him. 

Yeah, this particular Sam is more Bobcat Goldthwaite than Sam Kennison.

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I don't think that Jackson chose to banish Cliff/Jessica/David/Kemi because he was being consciously racist, but…I do think he lacks the awareness to take a look back and realize he was kicking 3 of the 4 non-white HGs out of the house and consider how racist that might look.  And, given that this is a game where advantages are sometimes voted on by the viewership, that's a look Mr. Michie might not want to have.  

A few thoughts:

1. Jackson lobbied for the Camp Director role solely for its promise of personal protection for the first eviction.  Judging from Jackson’s immediate AND later reactions, I doubt he would have pursued it at all if he’d known it had the potential to accumulate 1.5-2x as much BOHH as a standard HoH reign.
2. So - since Jackson now had to nom twice as many people as an HoH, his banishment selections were based totally upon minimizing any additional BOHH by picking only from among those HGs he was certain didn’t vote for him.  
3. Within this context, three of Jackson’s four picks are obvious; his initial competition for the CD slot almost certainly didn’t vote for him (or did they...?  But more on that later). There goes Cliff, David, and Jessica - easy peasy.
4. The 4th pick was trickiest - or would’ve been, had Kemi not drastically simplified it by not working up so much as even an insincere show of fake support.

And to be totally honest, the racial/marginalized aspect of Jackson’s picks didn’t even register with me until someone mentioned it here - so it wouldn’t surprise me if it didn’t occur to that other white meat either.

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

There's really no reason he couldn't have subbed Paul Lynde, er Original Sam Smith, out for David, for example.  

Other than the fact Jackson obviously regarded Sam as part of his support structure in the House, you mean? 🙂   Jackson was shown as having his initial who-to-nom talks with Jack and Sam, so Sam apparently had at least a modicum of Jackson’s trust - enough probably to make a Sam nom a nonstarter, at least.

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Yes, David threw his hat into the ring before you did, but he got exactly zero votes

That... confused me more than a little.  The CD vote broke down as follows:

1. Jackson - 10 votes
2. Jessica - 4 votes
3. Jack and Nick - one vote each

So neither Cliff nor David got so much as a single vote - not even their own...? 

Did anybody hear ANYTHING about the contestants not being able to vote for themselves?  Because if that were the case, then Jackson’s rationale for his first three banishment picks is kinda kicked in the nuts.

i wish we’d been shown the individual breakdown of who voted for who.  And I bet it would REALLY be doubleplussucky for David if he’d voted for Jackson, only to be banished and eliminated by him.

[zorak]

14 minutes ago, Nashville said:

That... confused me more than a little.  The CD vote broke down as follows:

1. Jackson - 10 votes
2. Jessica - 4 votes
3. Jack and Nick - one vote each

So neither Cliff nor David got so much as a single vote - not even their own...? 

Did anybody hear ANYTHING about the contestants not being able to vote for themselves?  Because if that were the case, then Jackson’s rationale for his first three banishment picks is kinda kicked in the nuts.

i wish we’d been shown the individual breakdown of who voted for who.  And I bet it would REALLY be doubleplussucky for David if he’d voted for Jackson, only to be banished and eliminated by him.

I am 99% sure I remember Julie Chen saying they weren't allowed to vote for themselves.

[Writing Wrongs]

12 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I liked the squirrel.  I'd also bet anything that it did not actually carry the two HGs it did not shroud in the kitchen.

I was wondering. Was it actually dragging people out? It looked edited to cut from over head shroud to dragging something out.

[Halting Hex]

42 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Jackson was shown as having his initial who-to-nom talks with Jack and Sam, so Sam apparently had at least a modicum of Jackson’s trust - enough probably to make a Sam nom a nonstarter, at least.

Sam was in there pleading his case, just as everybody else did.  (Except Kemi, notably.) The person who was present with Jack/son for the actual alliance talk was the surprised Isabella.

The order we were shown is:

1.  Nicole (doesn't know what to say; professes her honesty)

2. Cliff (offers to be a spy)

3. Jessica (says she wouldn't have nommed her competition)

4. Ovi (seems discomfited when Jackson says they're not here for "moral standards".)

5.  Sam/Nick/Analyse This! (Sam tells Jackson the unnominated will "have [Jackson's] back".  I guess he's hoping Jackson is as dumb as Jase with his "being the first HoH is great, because you make 2 enemies and 10 friends" delusions, huh?)

INTERLUDE:  Kemi don't kiss ass!

6.  Jack and Isabella.  Actual alliance forms. Jack suggests nominating the other candidates because then 'son will have an "explanation" ready.

7.   Jackson pulls David aside, tries to push "pawn" strategy, without success.

(Thank you, DVR.)

[IndyMischa]

36 minutes ago, zorak said:

I am 99% sure I remember Julie Chen saying they weren't allowed to vote for themselves.

She did. I saw a Twitter breakdown of the votes (based on like angles of the adjacent trees - people even more obsessive than I am, which is kind of scary), and I think Jessica voted for Jackson.

36 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I was wondering. Was it actually dragging people out? It looked edited to cut from over head shroud to dragging something out.

I think unless Jessie Godderz was in the squirrel suit, it's a safe bet that the banishees were not really in the sack. 

[LGGirl]

12 hours ago, Nashville said:

Kemi (verbatim): “I feel like a lot of people are going up to Jackson and asking him not to put them up, but I just don’t feel the need to do that because until I figure you out, I’m not scratching your back - because my back hasn’t been scratched either.”

Me (also verbatim): “That may very well be one of THE most fucking stupid things I’ve ever heard someone say on this show.”

Just for that comment, I was hoping she would lose the comp which, in all honesty, was a crap shoot, IMO. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Shitty douchebro cool people alliance already? YAWN. 

Quote

I was rather disappointed that every season's beginning is interchangeable with previous seasons: pretty people alliances on this side of the dance floor, misfits, olds, and uggos on that side.  BORING!

This, and this. The show is deliberately cast and constructed to insure the exact same formula every year: the meathead jock types align with an equivalent number of girls for a core alliance, and then there is a peripheral group who think they're in the alliance, leaving about 4 outliers for easy pickings.

In fact, this whole "banishment" thing seems designed for that exact outcome - to single out the three or four outliers who can easily go first so as not to lose the "popular" players.

What kills me is the women keep falling into the same trap of thinking aligning themselves with the meathead squad will keep them safe. The problem is, it's not a winning strategy. They never break away soon enough to take power and just end up getting voted out.

Plus all these twists and gimmicks are specifically designed to keep the players sticking to the script. You never have an evenly divided house of open alliances challenging each other anymore, you have almost everyone thinking they're all in the same secret alliance when really only 2 or 3 people (men) are in charge. 

It's disappointing that Grodner & Co. are so married to this formula the whole show is crafted to insure we see the exact same story, with the exact same people, every single year.

[IndyMischa]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

In fact, this whole "banishment" thing seems designed for that exact outcome - to single out the three or four outliers who can easily go first so as not to lose the "popular" players.

No argument here. I would also argue that the people most likely to shoot for a one week safety with mystery power (that's almost guaranteed to be bad news), are the outliers. Because they're the most likely to need that week one safety, and they know it. Jackson and his mystifying, "People will hate me because I'm pretty and beefy!" argument aside, that's exactly how it played out.

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What kills me is the women keep falling into the same trap of thinking aligning themselves with the meathead squad will keep them safe. The problem is, it's not a winning strategy. They never break away soon enough to take power and just end up getting voted out.

I think Kaycee (winner) and Angela (4th place) would disagree with you here...

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Plus all these twists and gimmicks are specifically designed to keep the players sticking to the script. You never have an evenly divided house of open alliances challenging each other anymore, you have almost everyone thinking they're all in the same secret alliance when really only 2 or 3 people (men) are in charge. 

Last year was pretty clearly (and deliciously, since my "team" won out) broken into two distinct and open sides.

[LoneHaranguer]

39 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Jack suggests nominating the other candidates because then 'son will have an "explanation" ready.

There is no explanation that will work, because Jackson could choose how to choose, so the "explanation" is just a rationale for who he was picking anyway. To avoid blowback, he'd have to choose a random group, maybe by having everyone draw pool balls out of a pillowcase, but that would be too much of a risk. As it was, from Grodner's POV, the "wrong" hamster didn't make it back into the cage.

[HurricaneVal]

The banishment picks are interesting, and can be taken a couple of ways.  Choosing the other houseguests who dared to run against him for Camp Director (except that I believe he put his hat in the ring last, which makes him the aggressor), and the one person who didn't bother to kiss his ass on one level seems quite reasonable, and the logical path to follow if he wanted to keep himself looking "clean" to the rest of the house.  Except, he didn't really explain it that way, so even if that was his logic, nobody in the house knows that was his logic, so he looks like an ass.  But then again, if he was going with that logic, he should have picked Jessica, Jack, Nick, and then either Cliff or David.  

The fact that he did pick the marginalized/minority folks out of that pool (plus, bonus Kemi) for banishment does point to something ugly in Jackson's makeup.  Maybe it is unconscious racism.  Maybe it is conscious racism.  My thought is that he's just your typical entitled douchebro who sees no value in anything and anyone who isn't pretty, white, and athletic like him, so that's why he picked who he picked.  And he has no idea why. 

The fact that Jackson was elected by the rest of the group as the Camp Director also says something about their makeup.  They'd rather a pretty white guy be the leader, rather than maybe someone more qualified, but marginalized, like Jessica, David, or Cliff.  Jackson didn't get into that position by himself.

My prediction is that Jackson will only associate with the "pretty" side of the house, and will never exchange even two words with quirky and weird Nicole.  My further prediction is that this house, like all BB houses in the past, will polarize into the two factions and alliances of the pretty popular folks, and the freaks and geeks.  Just like High School.  And just like High School, the F&G crowd all want to be part of the popular crowd, so they'll eat their own in their attempts to claw their way into being part of the cool crowd.  It happens every time.

I really wish Jackson had picked Jack for banishment.  Watching diet-Drogo bumble around in the Hundred Acre Woods getting covered in honey and feathers would have been comedy gold!

[sunshine23]

17 hours ago, zibnchy said:

I'll say it. Jackson was being racist. 3 POC and the old guy. Sure, tell yourself he wasn't being racist. Does not make it true.

I didn't look at it as racism. I looked at it as choosing the 3 others who volunteered and one who is so stuck on herself she couldnt be bothered to even talk to him.

[junemeatcleaver]

I haven't watched this show in like 15 seasons and it's still so predictable.  I said to myself the old guy and the Black girl are probably going one or two with the big girl soon to follow.

Edited June 27, 2019 by junemeatcleaver

[Brian Cronin]

15 hours ago, Nashville said:

Kemi (verbatim): “I feel like a lot of people are going up to Jackson and asking him not to put them up, but I just don’t feel the need to do that because until I figure you out, I’m not scratching your back - because my back hasn’t been scratched either.”

Me (also verbatim): “That may very well be one of THE most fucking stupid things I’ve ever heard someone say on this show.”

Yeah, it's hard to believe, since we've seen SO many stupid things on this show, but I was thinking a similar thought, that I'd rarely seen someone make SUCH a wrongheaded point on the show before.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, LoneHaranguer said:

As it was, from Grodner's POV, the "wrong" hamster didn't make it back into the cage.

Considering the design and environment of the banishment comp, I’m reasonably certain AG had every expectation the Old Fat Guy would be the one culled from the game - and man, I love it when the Production attempts to rig the game blow up in their faces.  😆

[HurricaneVal]

1 hour ago, sunshine23 said:

I didn't look at it as racism. I looked at it as choosing the 3 others who volunteered

When I watched the episode, that was what I was thinking.  Then I got to thinking more about it.  The problem with that is that there were more than three others who were in the running for Camp Director.  Jack and Nick also put their hats in the ring, and they got votes, as opposed to Cliff and David who got no votes.  If Jackson was trying to justify his choices as choosing his biggest threats due to the Camp Director campaign, that logic completely breaks down because the two guys who actually got votes are a bigger threat than the two guys who got no votes.

Jessica, though, with her four votes, was a legit threat at the time.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The fact that Jackson was elected by the rest of the group as the Camp Director also says something about their makeup.  They'd rather a pretty white guy be the leader, rather than maybe someone more qualified, but marginalized, like Jessica, David, or Cliff.  Jackson didn't get into that position by himself.

At first glance it would seem logical to align oneself with a perceived physical threat in the game who will do well in challenges. The problem is, these people are supposed to be familiar with how this game works. All they're doing is further propped and empowering the dominant alpha male. Instead of themselves. Haven't they seen this show before? Why do they keep propping the meathead squad? 

Quote

My further prediction is that this house, like all BB houses in the past, will polarize into the two factions and alliances of the pretty popular folks, and the freaks and geeks.  Just like High School.  And just like High School, the F&G crowd all want to be part of the popular crowd, so they'll eat their own in their attempts to claw their way into being part of the cool crowd.  It happens every time.

Let's be clear, it doesn't happen every time because it's a universal, inescapable social construct. It happens that way because the show casts the exact same type of people every single year.

There is always a frat guy, a jock guy, a sassy gay guy, a nerd guy, a regular joe guy, a weird girl with neon-dyed hair, a country hick, a sassy black girl, a girl next door type and an assortment of bikini models. The show has a set cast of characters. They're just played by different people every year.

[IndyMischa]

27 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

When I watched the episode, that was what I was thinking.  Then I got to thinking more about it.  The problem with that is that there were more than three others who were in the running for Camp Director.  Jack and Nick also put their hats in the ring, and they got votes, as opposed to Cliff and David who got no votes.  If Jackson was trying to justify his choices as choosing his biggest threats due to the Camp Director campaign, that logic completely breaks down because the two guys who actually got votes are a bigger threat than the two guys who got no votes.

Jessica, though, with her four votes, was a legit threat at the time.

Serious q: did they? I have zero memory of that, although to be fair I'm kind of senile. Pretty sure Jackson was Jack's vote (because he couldn't vote for himself), but I didn't think Jack (or Nick) had volunteered. 

[Halting Hex]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The show is deliberately cast and constructed to insure the exact same formula every year: the meathead jock types align with an equivalent number of girls for a core alliance, and then there is a peripheral group who think they're in the alliance, leaving about 4 outliers for easy pickings.

Well, it's not surprising that people will seek the safety of an alliance, but that hardly makes the outcome inevitable.  Last year, we had two equally large "sides" (L6, with JC and Sam sniffing after Tyler, vs. Foutté/Sacred Six, with Scottie and Steve aligned with them), 8-vs-8 in Week 1, until Tyler flipped Kaitlin and then used her against Swaggy the next week.  And then next three people to leave were two L6 members and Special Flippin' K, so the jury was 5 Hive, 4 L6, and Tyler's two pets.  Hardly overwhelming numbers.  (As came back to bite Tyler in the ass come the final vote.)  And three of the final six were women, so…

BB19 had an early alliance…which completely imploded when Julie did everything but announce that Paul was Production's pet, and everyone scrambled for his blessing, basically in matched pairs.  We can say a lot of awful and awfully honest things about Bobblebeard, but I don't think that "meathead jock" is among them.

BB18 saw the 6 previously-connected HGs (the four returnees, plus ex-HG siblings Paulie and Tiffany) cobble together a group to defeat Jozea, Victor, Paul and the others (thanks to the semi-defection of the Spy Girls), but that collapsed pretty quickly (thanks, DaVonne!…grrr…) and it took until after the first Battleback for a true power group to form.  Which ate itself early, getting rid of Paulie and Zakiyah while the likes of Natalie/James/Big Meech still lingered.  Eventually we ended up with two showmances and a Bromance, and only Corey and Victor could be called "jocks". And the last woman giving handjobs (Nicole) won the whole thing.

BB17?  The original alliance was the eight people who entered in the first group (plus Jason, who was co-opted as Co-HoH in Week 1), nothing about "jocks" involved.  They fell when they couldn't see that Clay and Shelli had defected, and were eliminated reasonably early on (even Grandma Meg couldn't coast any further than eighth) and the final 6 were three players targeted for early exits (Vanessa/Austin/Liz), the late entry Julia, and two men who were being literally shunned by the Campers/Gremlins/ADC, in Steve and Johnny Mac.

BB16 did see Derrick pulling all the strings and controlling his majority alliance, pretty much all the way home.  But that was partly due to the "Team America" backup alliance, and one summer does not a paradigm make, IMO.

BB15's initial jock-alliance (The Moving Company) didn't make it past week 2, in part because they put so much effort into not being seen together that Spencer and McCrae decided against rescuing Nick when he needed it.  The next major alliance (the one run by Amanda) frayed just after Jury was reached, and the sub-alliance ("3 AM") was half gone by F6, with one of them (Andy) defecting to his new alliance, The Nazi Death Squad.  (Er, "Exterminators".  Same difference.)  The alliance that ended up running the house didn't even form until F8.  (And then didn't make F4, as McCrae won the veto to spoil those plans.)

 BB14 saw one alpha-type (Frank) a constant and largely-isolated target, while the other (Janelle) was backdoored out before Jury.  Yes, Shane was athletic and lasted long, but the power alliance (the effing "Quack Pack") included such non-jocks as Britney, Ian, and Dan.

So to claim "formula" is IMO overstating things.  Athletic males in early alliances that got very early boots have included Saggy D (out Week 2), Cody (out Week 2, then Week 7), Victor (out Week 2, then two other times) and Jace (out first).  I wouldn't concede this thing to Jack, no matter how many DRs they give him.  I'm not even sure he's making Jury.

(Now watch, he'll walk away with it.  Thanks for nothing, Jason OhNoA!)

[zorak]

27 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

When I watched the episode, that was what I was thinking.  Then I got to thinking more about it.  The problem with that is that there were more than three others who were in the running for Camp Director.  Jack and Nick also put their hats in the ring, and they got votes, as opposed to Cliff and David who got no votes.

I didn't remember Jack and Nick also putting their hats in the ring and I just rewatched the part where they sat around and made their intentions known.  Neither Jack or Nick announced they were in the running.  In fact, right before they voted we saw Jack in the DR talking about how since the Camp Director has the power to make or break his game, the only person he feels comfortable having this power is Jackson.  It would make no sense for him to say that if he himself had been in the running.

[atiyah9369]

19 hours ago, zibnchy said:

I'll say it. Jackson was being racist. 3 POC and the old guy. Sure, tell yourself he wasn't being racist. Does not make it true.

I noticed this also.

13 hours ago, Iguana said:

Jeez, Julie. What the hell are you wearing???  Babydoll pink lace last night and late 80’s spring formal prom dress tonight. I wouldn’t have thought you pissed off the costume department this early in the season, although Mr. Moonves did spread himself around...

In actual game comments, shoutin’ Sam must turn down the volume or I’m going to get a truck and make me some roadkill. Speaking of roadkill, I’ll also aim for that stupid squirrel too.  I’m already bored by the camp theme so I think it could be a loooong summer. 

My mom asks the same thing. LOL. I always reply i have no idea mom. None whatsoever.

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, zorak said:

I am 99% sure I remember Julie Chen saying they weren't allowed to vote for themselves.

Ok, had to going skulking about a bit to find it - 27 minutes into Premiere Ep1.  I must’ve missed it the first time around, so now I feel better.

[IndyMischa]

@Halting Hex just a quick post to bow down to your unmatched historical mental Rolodex. Famazing!

[After7Only]

19 hours ago, LakeGal said:

I think Jackson took the easy choice, He went with the 3 people running against him in the contest plus the only person that never came to talk to him.  

But I'm not sure that running for Camp Counselor really equated to being a threat to his game.  Especially since 2 of those received 0 votes and 2 other people he didn't choose did receive votes.     It's a fairly common reality show trope that the older contestants and the minorities get booted first/early.   It's hard for me to believe when Jackson the superfan was considering who he should align himself with vs who to nominate, it wasn't a factor on some level.   

17 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I know. I really wonder what would happen if they cast someone like Cirie on the show. 

They did in an early season with Danielle.   She played a game similar to Cirie.  Was everyone's friend/mom while low key running the show.   She made it to the end but lost because at that time they did not sequester the jury and they all saw her diary rooms where she talked about how she manipulated them all.   

But they haven't really cast a black woman like her since.  

[iMonrey]

Much as I loathe to defend Jackson's choices, if you have to piss of four people it's safest to piss off the four you perceive to be the weakest, game-wise. They might be "gunning for you" but it's less likely they will win competitions and be able to do anything about it.

I'm not really sure how he spun his choices, though - they weren't clear about that. I'm not sure he was either. 

[Halting Hex]

13 minutes ago, IndyMischa said:

@Halting Hex just a quick post to bow down to your unmatched historical mental Rolodex. Famazing!

Yes, my highly-developed brain is devoted to remembering Big Brother history and individual lines of dialogue from Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes.

"How? What? How?"  Three excellent questions…

[Nashville]

20 hours ago, zibnchy said:

I'll say it. Jackson was being racist. 3 POC and the old guy. Sure, tell yourself he wasn't being racist. Does not make it true.

Racist, or prejudiced?  Let’s clarify our terms here.

[IndyMischa]

5 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Yes, my highly-developed brain is devoted to remembering Big Brother history and individual lines of dialogue from Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes.

"How? What? How?"  Three excellent questions…

That second one, I can hang. Lol

There should be more math; this could be mathier! 

[Halting Hex]

You're actually still bitter there were only twelve grades, I take it?  (Is using the same scene cheating?  Not sure.)

26 minutes ago, After7Only said:

[Danielle Reyes] made it to the end but lost because at that time they did not sequester the jury and they all saw her diary rooms where she talked about how she manipulated them all.   

Even more specifically, because Roddy Mancuso (good Catholic son) really didn't like being referred to as "the Devil".

"Eyes open, mouth shut."  Good advice, Danielle…if you can follow it.  (Too bad.  I have nothing against Lisa, but IMO Dani deserved it more.)

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Considering the design and environment of the banishment comp, I’m reasonably certain AG had every expectation the Old Fat Guy would be the one culled from the game - and man, I love it when the Production attempts to rig the game blow up in their faces.  😆

Yeah, the design favored skinny and nimble, so I liked that both Cliff and Jessica made it through. I don't know why they keep wanting to get rid of the "outliers" right away. They're what might make the season different from the last, giving viewers a reason to keep watching. I might have tuned out of BB16 if Donny (Old Guy With Beard) had gone sooner.

[Mystery]

20 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Which actress is Christie reminding me of? It's driving me crazy. But she's extremely likeable.  

She reminds me of Busy Phillips. 

[Melina22]

9 minutes ago, Mystery said:

She reminds me of Busy Phillips. 

I was going to say I didn't see it but I looked up her image and there's definitely a strong resemblance! At the same time, I don't think it's her I'm thinking of. Hopefully, it'll come to me at some point. 

[IndyMischa]

She's Disco Elizabeth Moss to me.