Season 21 Live Feed Discussion

[Vixenstud]

9 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

When cliff is on, this is what I see :

Don't you ever in your life compare that POS to the greatest cartoon character again!

[iMonrey]

So back when the big "house meeting" went down and the feeds cut to cats or whatever we were all speculating why it wasn't being aired on the live feeds. I think I was correct in guessing the show wanted to carefully manage the footage in order to shield Jackson as much as possible. Last night's episode really went out of its way to show a sympathetic side to him crying in the DR and an entire segment of him and Holly. GMAFB. The show is trying so hard to prop Jackson and make his eventual, inevitable win as palatable as possible.

Quote

The only hope is that with a Holly/Jackson f2 the jury could be a very bitter jury and they may refuse to give Jackson the money and vote for Holly.

No, Jackson wins, hands down, against anyone. Even Christie walked out of that house saying Jackson was going to win. They all know he played the best game. 

Jackson does deserve to win. I just can't work up any enthusiasm for him winning because he's such an objectionable person.

[missyb]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Lock votes for Jackson are Jack and Cliff

Cliff told Nicole he may vote Holly ( if j/H f2) because she kept her end of the deal.

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Nick leans Jackson but would probably vote Holly if it was obvious that was how the wind was blowing. 

Poor Nick, still wanting to prove his loyalty and trust. LOL

[Lamima]

Yeah, my enthusiasm for the rest of this season has also tanked. It's why I am so ticked at Cliff. He ruined what could have been a happy ending. If Holly had went last eviction and then this week Tommy and Jackson would be battling...oh that would have been great. And we'd have  Nicole-Cliff and either J or T final 3. Preferably a N-C-T. Now it's a boring J-H-N and will be gross to see the showmance in bed all week and Nicole all alone. YICK!

And when Jackson worked so hard to save Holly last week...that wasn't a big damn flag for Cliff that Jackson wanted Holly to be his F2? And when they made the deal to let NICOLE win this HoH, Nicole NOT Cliff....um, hello, Cliff. That's not a big red flag???

Anyway, I have watched most seasons. Missed a few while raising kids. But I think I am done with it. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Lamima

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, Lamima said:

Yeah, my enthusiasm for the rest of this season has also tanked. It's why I am so ticked at Cliff. He ruined what could have been a happy ending. If Holly had went last eviction and then this week Tommy and Jackson would be battling...oh that would have been great. And we'd have  Nicole-Cliff and either J or T final 3. Preferably a N-C-T. Now it's a boring J-H-N and will be gross to see the showmance in bed all week and Nicole all alone. YICK!

It'll suck even more if Jackson and Holly win parts 1 and 2 because you know they'll be celebrating throughout the week and probably leaving poor Nicole alone to sit in her thoughts about how she'll be placing third. 

[Melina22]

23 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It'll suck even more if Jackson and Holly win parts 1 and 2 because you know they'll be celebrating throughout the week and probably leaving poor Nicole alone to sit in her thoughts about how she'll be placing third. 

But you know she'll totally deserve it because she CONTEMPLATED KEEPING TOMMY! She's lucky they don't lock her in the Have-Not room! They're showing mercy! 

[Nashville]

14 hours ago, Melina22 said:

What does [Jackson] plan to say? 

Some rationalizing bullshit - what else?

14 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Do the Joker's ratings have any relation to who wins AFP?

Not directly - but they can be considered a VERY rough barometer of public opinion, which drives the AFP vote.

13 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

There’s also this cold blooded blindside I watch and rewatch. Evicted without his shoes on. Classic 

Oh, BTW - thanks for reminding me why I so thoroughly hated Vanessa Russo.  Vanessa is the HG for which I registered CUE WATERWORKS!!!® as a trademark.

12 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Someone refresh my memory:  The house guests who win the game and come in second cannot win for AFP, correct?

Technically every HG is eligible to win AFP, but nobody finishing 1st Place has ever won.

Yet.

To the best of your knowledge.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Nashville
Corrected 2nd Place misstatement

[zscore]

17 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Technically every HG is eligible to win AFP, but nobody finishing 1st or 2nd Place has ever won.

Yet.

To the best of your knowledge.

Tyler (2nd place) won AFP last year. Also Ross (2nd place) won AFP for celebrity BB1.

[Alice Mudgarden]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I say this one probably comes down to what Jack decides to do.

Fucking Jack.

Go away so I can be rid of you once and for all.

[Nashville]

5 minutes ago, zscore said:

Tyler (2nd place) won AFP last year. Also Ross (2nd place) won AFP for celebrity BB1.

You’re right, I’d forgotten, and I’ve corrected.  🙂 

[Dmarie019]

If it's a Holly/Jackson F2, if anyone votes for Holly they need to have their heads checked. I would FOR SURE prefer to see Cliff or Nicole win over him but not Holly.

[LGGirl]

Our only hope is that Holly and Jackson get into a really big fight.  There is that possibility.   That might switch things up. 

So.... what did genius Cliff think?  If Jackson was not going to take Holly to the end, then why did it matter if she is evicted now?  Wouldn’t be easier to blame the eviction on Cliff and Nichole, keeping your hand clean.   That never crossed dumbass Cliff’s mind.  

My family is casual viewers.   They all hate Jackson.   Think Holly is an embarrassment.   Love Nichole.   Cliff is dead to them.  

Nichole will win AFP.   

[PaperTree]

30 minutes ago, Dmarie019 said:

If it's a Holly/Jackson F2, if anyone votes for Holly they need to have their heads checked. I would FOR SURE prefer to see Cliff or Nicole win over him but not Holly.

In that situation, I'm Go Holly!

I would fall off my chair laughing.  Like when Paul lost.

Blockhead might just explode on live TV 🙂 

*not that I think Holly is worthy.  At all.  At least vile Josh cleverly gamed his goodbye messages.

[Ellee]

If Nicole's veto speech is about the bits that I read, Cliff might end up staying.

Why you say?

Jackson will be so pissed that Nicole dared to challenge him on keeping his word on national tv that he might decide to attack.  

[Never Again]

My shakeout of my feelings after digesting last night’s episode:  I’m revolted by Holly, what  nerve of her to continuously complain about throwing the HOH when she would have been evicted if she didn’t beg for her life by promising to throw that comp; I’m disgusted by Cliff, if he’s that close to Nicole...I don’t mind someone playing to win but his using their relationship and her insecurities and his dad persona to undercut her like that just rankles;  I despise Jackson but he’s a fantastic player who makes his own lightning fast decisions and beasts the comps; I feel badly for Nicole but she should have played her own game at the end and went with her gut, although she sees that now.  Also she was handed two of her HOH wins, so that matters too

I assume Jackson will win, if my daughter dated him I’d throw up, but he does deserve the win.  And I’ll vote for Nicole for AFP.

[Callaphera]

Just now, Ellee said:

If Nicole's veto speech is about the bits that I read, Cliff might end up staying.

Why you say?

Jackson will be so pissed that Nicole dared to challenge him on keeping his word on national tv that he might decide to attack.  

Big Brother version of euthanasia? 

I can't say I blame her. Who wants to be stuck in that house for a week with Holly and Jackson fucking like bunnies? 

[Slider]

I'm a firm believer that you can bounce checks in the BB house, but not this season.  The players waited to long to do that, and by doing so it affects the jury's perception of game.  If someone had "broken their word" before this whole final 5/ final 4 play, it would have worked as a game move.  I don't think it will now - it's too late.

[Callaphera]

16 minutes ago, Slider said:

I'm a firm believer that you can bounce checks in the BB house, but not this season.  The players waited to long to do that, and by doing so it affects the jury's perception of game.  If someone had "broken their word" before this whole final 5/ final 4 play, it would have worked as a game move.  I don't think it will now - it's too late.

Or last season.

I worry that the importance of social media and how the HGs are perceived outside of the house has changed the game and watered down strategy and game play. It wasn't that much of a concern back in the day and then Shelly cut Big Jeff and we all saw that fallout. And then it was fine for awhile but the past few seasons with things like the Raven Exposed Party on Twitter (which was fun, don't get me wrong) and Racism Supercuts on Youtube, I can't help but wonder if the truly cut-throat era of Big Brother is done and we're now in a kinder, gentler phase of the game. 

ETA: I realize that both of those examples are poor in regards to game-play and I'm not trying to say "Ignore racism for game-play!" or anything like that, I was just using them as examples of how things blew the fuck up because we have all these avenues of social media and clipping and Internet sleuthing. And insanely toxic fans. Those help a lot of the time, too. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Callaphera

[xKHANx]

How many HoH and PoV wins does Jackson have? 3 & 3?

[Ellee]

Jackson & Jack did damage to their own images right off the bat.  They didn't need any help.

Lying is part of the game.

If the two wouldn't have been arrogant intimidators and overall jackasses,  Jackson wouldn't have to be trying to rehabilitate his image.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Ellee

[Never Again]

Remember when my daughter’s good friend Alexis accepted a guys promposal? And then a cuter guy asked her to prom so she accepted his, too and then had to tell the first guy? And so he asked someone else, and then shortly afterwards through the grapevine the cuter guy heard that she already had accepted to go to prom with someone else first and he didn’t want to deal with that so he canceled her and asked someone else, and Alexis went to prom but without a date?  You might not, lol, but I sure remember it!

My point being, once you make a deal in close quarters where people can find things out, it’s probably better to stick to the first deal.  I think if Nicole and Cliff were evicting Holly, ok fine, or if evicting Tommy, then that’s fine too.  But what’s the point of telling Jackson and Holly that you’re evicting Holly, but then turn around and evict Tommy?  Now Tommy is understandably upset, but even though they KEPT Holly, she and Jackson are furious with them anyway and consider them disloyal, even though in the long run they stayed loyal? So now everyone is pissed at them, instead of just one side being mad.  Now Nicole and Cliff are not going to have a good time at prom 

[Tdoc72]

Scenario:  Nicole wins final 3 challenge. Who does she take to final 2:  Holly, who she might have a chance of beating, or Jackson, who will probably win?

[Maggie Mae]

58 minutes ago, Ellee said:

If Nicole's veto speech is about the bits that I read, Cliff might end up staying.

Why you say?

Jackson will be so pissed that Nicole dared to challenge him on keeping his word on national tv that he might decide to attack.  

I'm confused. Nicole is HOH and cannot be evicted, right? Jackson can only choose Holly or Cliff. And why is Nicole giving a veto speech???

[Callaphera]

27 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Lying is part of the game.

It is. And yet when people lie really successfully, we end up with things like Derrick obviously being a dirty cop because of how well he manipulated BB16 and even last night, people calling Jackson a sociopath and saying that he would be a dirty cop if he were a cop in the episode thread. Hell, Nick and being a therapist this year! (Okay that might be a bad example but I also don't think that because he has a healthy sexual appetite that he shouldn't be around children.) So I can see why maybe for last season and this season and seasons going forward, people might lie a little less and be a little less cut-throat because do you want the Internet making those insinuations and accusations about you? Whether true or not, they stick. 

Obviously call out the racist asswipes for being racist asswipes. But maybe we've also helped to ruin the game because of things like the Dirty Cop Derrick characterization.

I dunno, maybe it's just the end of the season and there isn't much happening in the house so I'm thinking too hard on some of this stuff. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Callaphera

[DannyRugg]

I feel so bad for Snackson and Beth being forced to evict STD 492. He DELIBERATELY misled them and (with Nicole as his cohort) tried to force Beth to live on her knees (rather than dying on her feet) by bullying her into throwing HOH and veto. No confetti for the Ground Hogg.

[slasherboy]

5 hours ago, Lamima said:

Anyway, I have watched most seasons. Missed a few while raising kids. But I think I am done with it. 

No you're not.  You may think that now, but come next summer, you'll be glued to the TV just like the rest of us. 😨

Also, who's Beth?

[Dmarie019]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

If Nicole's veto speech is about the bits that I read, Cliff might end up staying.

37 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm confused. Nicole is HOH and cannot be evicted, right? Jackson can only choose Holly or Cliff. And why is Nicole giving a veto speech???

Ditto - why is she getting a speech? That doesn't make sense. 

[Lamima]

4 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

No you're not.  You may think that now, but come next summer, you'll be glued to the TV just like the rest of us. 😨

Also, who's Beth?

Probably.

Beth is Holly...David called her Beth early on. And because she is so forgettable...why not call her Beth!?!?

Edited September 16, 2019 by Lamima

[Tuxcat]

5 minutes ago, Dmarie019 said:

Ditto - why is she getting a speech? That doesn't make sense. 

Jackson will give his little speech about using the veto on himself and then he will use the time to say how he's honorable blah blah blah. Then Nicole will have to nominate Cliff and she will use that time to say to Jackson "if you're so honorable, then prove it..." blah blah blah.

[Callaphera]

I keep forgetting that they haven't had the actual Veto ceremony yet. 

[xKHANx]

Veto should be done by now, it usually starts at 3pm Eastern right?

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

I keep forgetting that they haven't had the actual Veto ceremony yet. 

That’s the problem with these damn transparenphiles; you hear SOOOOO much about what they’re going to be doing in the next couple of days, OVER AND OVER, that after a while you forget they haven’t done it yet.  

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Slider said:

I'm a firm believer that you can bounce checks in the BB house, but not this season.  The players waited to long to do that, and by doing so it affects the jury's perception of game.  If someone had "broken their word" before this whole final 5/ final 4 play, it would have worked as a game move.  I don't think it will now - it's too late.

Gotta disagree with this’un a bit because IMHO right now - in the season’s endgame - is exactly WHEN you should be bouncing those checks for maximum loft.  And if you can’t spin that properly to the Jury as an intrinsic part of your overall strategy from Day One, then I’m afraid you simply weren’t a very good player. 😉 

[Slider]

4 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Gotta disagree with this’un a bit because IMHO right now - in the season’s endgame - is exactly WHEN you should be bouncing those checks for maximum loft.  And if you can’t spin that properly to the Jury as an intrinsic part of your overall strategy from Day One, then I’m afraid you simply weren’t a very good player. 😉 

See my thing is that there was too much "My word is my word" and "I give you my word, and my word is my bond" this season.  Usually, there is swearing and word giving and then betrayal or trickery, but this season there wasn't any of it because of how veto's came about and with Cliff's deal with Christi to get out Bella.  All that talk makes it hard for the jury to not vote for who was most loyal.  Believe me, I'm a firm believer that you can say one thing and do another, but the way these players set it up makes it impossible for it to be respected gameplay.  Like Jackson last night - Nicole and Cliff decided to go against "their word" and wanted to keep Tommy, so Jackson said since they struck first he said all bets were off.  

That's not how I think it should be played, but that's the environment of this season. (In my opinion.)

[Ellee]

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

Jackson will give his little speech about using the veto on himself and then he will use the time to say how he's honorable blah blah blah. Then Nicole will have to nominate Cliff and she will use that time to say to Jackson "if you're so honorable, then prove it..." blah blah blah.

Thanks, Tuxcat, with the kind of day I’m having I don’t think I could explain what I was attempting to say the first time.  😁

[Nashville]

16 minutes ago, Slider said:

Believe me, I'm a firm believer that you can say one thing and do another, but the way these players set it up makes it impossible for it to be respected gameplay.  Like Jackson last night - Nicole and Cliff decided to go against "their word" and wanted to keep Tommy, so Jackson said since they struck first he said all bets were off.  

Actually - and keeping in mind there are probably still some pages left in this script which we have yet to see - I think Jackson is coming very close to playing this whole situation off perfectly BB-wise.  Jackson has exactly zero problems with the level of absolute hypocrisy BB requires to rake someone over the coals mercilessly for the exact same thing HE’S planning to do.  IRL this would border on the sociopathic, sure - but (for the most part) the BB House is not real life, and this is simply a handy game skill.  And I don’t even really like the fucking guy.

16 minutes ago, Slider said:

That's not how I think it should be played, but that's the environment of this season. (In my opinion.)

Depends; s/he who gets to say “...but that’s all part of Big Brother!!!” to the Jury first, wins.  ;D 

[pinkandsparkly13]

1 hour ago, Lamima said:

Probably.

Beth is Holly...David called her Beth early on. And because she is so forgettable...why not call her Beth!?!?

That's why people call her Beth? Lol I didn't see that so I didn't know and I kinda wanted to ask but never did. I thought it was because she reminded people of a past contestant named Beth or something. Lol

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Slider said:

Like Jackson last night - Nicole and Cliff decided to go against "their word" and wanted to keep Tommy, so Jackson said since they struck first he said all bets were off.  

But they didn't go against their word at all. Thinking and doing aren't the same thing. Jackson is the one actually going against his word.

But you're probably right that for these particular people, it's Nicole/Cliff who broke the scared bond of 'their word' by thinking about something lol.

[peachmangosteen]

So, did Jackson and/or Nicole give their speeches at the veto meeting? Or did one or both chicken out? I'm going with the latter.

[missyb]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

So, did Jackson and/or Nicole give their speeches at the veto meeting? Or did one or both chicken out? I'm going with the latter.

No veto today. It may be live on Thursday. I can't remember if that is what they have done in the past.

[Thalia]

20 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

There’s also this cold blooded blindside I watch and rewatch. Evicted without his shoes on. Classic 

I wonder if I was in a coma during the summer of 2015.  I thought I was obsessed, yet only one or two of these people even look familiar.  Maybe, because of principle, I refused to watch a season that involved a man who put a rubber band in his beard.  What is that called anyhow?  A beardy-tail?  

[Callaphera]

16 minutes ago, Thalia said:

I wonder if I was in a coma during the summer of 2015.  I thought I was obsessed, yet only one or two of these people even look familiar.  Maybe, because of principle, I refused to watch a season that involved a man who put a rubber band in his beard.  What is that called anyhow?  A beardy-tail?  

But... but... the great Photoshop of all time came out of that season!

Audrey, in what we predicted her eviction interview would look like:

ETA: Actually, that whole week was golden. I loved playing When Audrey Went Into The DR... with everyone when the feeds were down for like four hours (...Kathy was still stuck in the caramel!) and then we got to play What's In The Bag, Audrey? when the feeds finally did come back. And then we played Will Audrey Murder Everyone Like Vanessa Thinks? Such a great week. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Callaphera

[PhoneCop]

I've said this before, but the Audrey situation brought about Austin's one great line: "Hospice is not a strategy."

[mooses]

Guys, this sucks. I can't believe this season has come to me having to admit that Jackson deserves to win this game. Yes, part of me wants to see Nicole win because, well, I just like her better. And I'll be happy for her if she does. But, if I'm honest, I want a game like Jackson's to get rewarded - lie, manipulate, do whatever you have to - even though I don't want a person like Jackson to be rewarded (and disliking him has nothing to do with breaking his word on Big Brother). 

Is he a jerk? Yes. A self-righteous lecturer? Yes. Like Nicole's said, he should just say, "Holly's been my ride-or-die since Week 2 after I dumped Kat to sleep with her. My goal since our first shower session has always been to get us to Final 2, and I'm sorry it had to be at the expense of your games." I don't blame Nicole for being pissed about how he speaks to her. But he's been like this all season to everyone, and she always sided with him and thought he was the better, more trust-worthy guy. Because she bought into his moral superiority until it was directed at her. He played Cliff/Nicole like a fiddle. 

I want players that took the reins and controlled the game at some point this season - or at least controlled their own game. Every ounce of power Nicole got, she did someone else's bidding. They got rid of Christie with their DE power after saying they'd prefer to get rid of Tommy over her for weeks. They were too scared to put up Holly/Jackson to make that happen even though Cliff/Nicole had been used as pawns themselves before. Still, I didn't think was the worst move because at least they broke up a duo. But then Nicole openly admitted she gave Cliff the power to make the decision between Tommy/Holly and thought it best to go with his gut. Yes, Cliff was pushing for Tommy to go, but I totally believe that if Nicole said, "Let's get rid of Holly," he totally would have done it (and then just blamed her to Jackson to secure his trust over Nicole's). And now Cliff can't believe Jackson wasn't dealt with along the way by someone else. Yeah, because you guys did his dirty work until there was no one else to break them up except you two! And even then you chickened out!

I mean, I can't say Nicole made the wrong decisions because I think she has a really good chance to get to F2 - and even win with a bitter jury. I have no doubt Big Brother wants her to win one of the first parts of the Final HOH to go against Jackson/Holly in Part 3. But her/Cliff's gameplay reminds me of Laurel-from-Survivor - yeah, you got far, but you were manipulated to the end. Cliff saying at least he'll be remembered as someone who kept his word while Jackson will break it on live TV - who cares! Cliff will be remembered as the dude who got manipulated by a 24-year-old douchebag and the HG who was stupid enough to believe the showmance would choose him over them because of some handshakes, winks, nods, southern gentleman crap.

Oh, and, somehow, out of all of this, Cliff thinks his better game move would have been to be even tighter with Holly/Jackson, but it'd be at the expense of Nicole which he just couldn't do. C'mon.

Edited September 16, 2019 by mooses

[zscore]

58 minutes ago, missyb said:

No veto today. It may be live on Thursday. I can't remember if that is what they have done in the past.

F4 veto meeting is usually live on Thursday, followed by the live vote. With only one person voting they need a lot of fillers for that episode.

[Never Again]

On Reddit they’re saying that Jackson has been telling Holly about his loyalty to her going forward, by explaining that any future girls he dates will have to understand that he will continue to like and comment on Holly’s Instagram, and that Holly’s future boyfriends will have to understand that too.  Holly, if you are the eventual decider of F2 and you take this guy to the final with you, after he told you to your face that you don’t have a future except as Instagram friends, then you deserve your fate. 

ETA: this is surprisingly sloppy gameplay for Jackson, it’s not like him to tip his hand while she can still possibly decide his fate 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Rbonnie
Had a thought

[Callaphera]

2 minutes ago, Rbonnie said:

On Reddit they’re saying that Jackson has been telling Holly about his loyalty to her going forward, by explaining that any future girls he dates will have to understand that he will continue to like and comment on Holly’s Instagram, and that Holly’s future boyfriends will have to understand that too.  Holly, if you are the eventual decider of F2 and you take this guy to the final with you, after he told you to your face that you don’t have a future except as Instagram friends, then you deserve your fate. 

"So hey, I'm dumping you as soon as we get out of here but I'm gonna creep on your 'gram and screw any crazy bitch I fuck, they're just gonna have to deal with it. You better worship me on my feed, though."

I'm so glad I got married and got out of the dating scene before Instagram was a thing. 

[Booklady1017]

21 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Do the Joker's ratings have any relation to who wins AFP?

Nicole is first, Holly is last.  Cliff is 8th, Jackson 12th.  Ovi and Tommy are 2 and 3.

I have no idea but those ratings seem fairly accurate. Wonder do they get them from a poll? 

[Booklady1017]

9 hours ago, Lamima said:

Yeah, my enthusiasm for the rest of this season has also tanked. It's why I am so ticked at Cliff. He ruined what could have been a happy ending. If Holly had went last eviction and then this week Tommy and Jackson would be battling...oh that would have been great. And we'd have  Nicole-Cliff and either J or T final 3. Preferably a N-C-T. Now it's a boring J-H-N and will be gross to see the showmance in bed all week and Nicole all alone. YICK!

And when Jackson worked so hard to save Holly last week...that wasn't a big damn flag for Cliff that Jackson wanted Holly to be his F2? And when they made the deal to let NICOLE win this HoH, Nicole NOT Cliff....um, hello, Cliff. That's not a big red flag???

Anyway, I have watched most seasons. Missed a few while raising kids. But I think I am done with it. 

It is all Cliff’s fault. That’s why I dislike him even more.

21 hours ago, Cutty said:

I was hoping Kemi would make it into the top 3 just to stick it to the racists, but I think Tommy probably gets that third spot now. 

I don't see how Cliff wins after that episode tonight.

He shouldn’t after that boneheaded move he made.

[zorak]

Should we have a caption contest for this image of Jackson looking through the rulebook?