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S08.E06: The Iron Throne


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No Book Talk. AT ALL.

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So much unintentional comedy. Tyrion having to give a whole speech to that idiot Jon, so that the latter would realize that Dany is not exactly a Queen material. Tyrion is the Hand again after utterly failing. A council full of nobodies decide the fate of Westeros in less than ten minutes. The Unsullied and the Dothraki are totally cool with said council deciding the fate of Daenerys's killer. Said killer will totally not renege after they leave, no sir.

I never liked Daenerys but even so, showing her face-heel turn with almost nothing from her point of view in the last two episodes is ridiculous. The Nazi imagery during her speech was ridiculous (and I am sure most of the people she was addressing couldn't hear a thing anyway).. King Bran isn't going to last long, he just gave away half the kingdom to his sister and every adventurer knows by now that a strong army is enough to make you a lord or even a king, lineage and claims be damned (LOL, Lord Bronn of Highgarden). And with Tyrion as the Hand what can possibly go right?

2 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Was I the only one wanting to slap Barn's face when he smirked as he said "why do you think I come all the way down here" or "you were where you were supposed to be" ?

No, you were not.

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2 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

This might have been mentioned already, but did anyone notice how two of the scenes seemed to be directed at fans' complaints about the season?  One was Jon petting Ghost.

Just incredibly lame they did that, show went pure Hollywood once they ran out of GRRM source material.

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Forgot to add- Benjen is alive and North of the Wall. I wonder if with the Night King dead he’s still bound to that side by magic. In my head Jon is going to look for him. That makes me feel better. 

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17 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

It seems unlikely that everyone would be agreeable to 3 Starks on The Seven Six Kingdom's Electoral college, and that they'd be OK with the North being granted independence, but not anyone else.

Looking forward to when Bran die and civil war breaks out to determine who will belong to the next Electoral College, and who will be king or queen.

Oh, good grief, the whole episode, and really, the previous two, is such a towering mountain of preposterous nonsense, in terms of character continuity and basic logic, that words are insufficient for the task of describing it.

I just know that I woulda' paid 20 bucks to have Tyrion say, after Bran announced he needed to be carted away, so he could locate the dragon, "Hey, Your Grace? Are you either too much of a dumbsh*t to think of locating Euron's fleet prior to yet another sneak attack, or are you every bit as much a power hungry tyrant, consumed with bloodlust, as the white haired despot Jon shivved, only much sneakier?"

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Just now, Scarlett45 said:

Forgot to add- Benjen is alive and North of the Wall. I wonder if with the Night King dead he’s still bound to that side by magic. In my head Jon is going to look for him. That makes me feel better. 

I believe Benjen was killed by the wights after giving Jon his horse.

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8 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Forgot to add- Benjen is alive and North of the Wall. I wonder if with the Night King dead he’s still bound to that side by magic. In my head Jon is going to look for him. That makes me feel better. 

I think Benjen was torn to pieces by the zombies at the end of my least favorite episode, "Beyond the Wall".*

*Least favorite until the three piles of steaming feces that ended this show.

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(edited)
11 hours ago, Lemuria said:

I have to respectfully disagree.  They aren't remotely headed toward a democracy.  They've always had a small council.  And since Bran will probably be mostly hands-off, it's really an oligarchy.

And that's Newton's Fourth Law;  "An oligarchy stays an oligarchy unless acted upon by an outside force storming the Bastille."

I'm all for Drogon storming the Bastille.

Quote

When Drogon was trying to shake Dany the 2nd or 3rd time it actually looked like he was inviting Jon to climb aboard (which he wasnt) but it looked that way and would have 1,000x more appropriate than what they did. He sits on that dragon Grey Worm et al see him as King and that's that. Having Jon reluctantly becoming King and then final scene of him looking miserable and half-broken at a small council meeting while the others bickered would have been logical...but surely disappointing to anyone searching for a broader meaning to the series ie democracy or whatever.

After all this, the irony of a Targ with a dragon once again being King, and one of his advisers being a Lannister would have been priceless.  Jon Snow knows nothing, and Westeros learns nothing.

Edited by TigerLynx
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Is it just me thinking that 3ER will be King for eternity unless someone takes him out for good? They said King's will be voted for now but what if the 3ER changes the game (and he will) so that they only get to vote who will be his next vessel.

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4 minutes ago, Drogo said:

I believe Benjen was killed by the wights after giving Jon his horse.

Yes! My friend just reminded me of that. Damn. I should’ve rewatched before this season. Thanks. 

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2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I think Benjen was torn to pieces by the zombies at the end of my least favorite episode, "Beyond the Wall".*

*Least favorite until the three piles of steaming feces that ended this show.

You’re right. I forgot. 

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27 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yeah, it made no sense that the Starks had any say in who the next King would be when the North was becoming independent.    It would be like Americans voting in British elections

But Sansa didn't vote. Everyone else voted for Bran and then she said the North will be independent. As king, Bran gave his agreement that the North will be independent from tge Seven Kingdoms.  

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I do want to give the writers credit for being completely unpredictable.  Bran wouldn't have even been the last person on my list to take the iron throne because he was never even on any list I would have had.  

Like literally, pod and brienne we're at least on my list of people who might have somehow taken the throne.  Hell, cersei's ghost and ghost the direwolf would have been on a list of contenders before bran.

Also nice fake out with the whole "story" speech by Tyrion as it seemed designed to sell Jon as the person to take the iron throne.. maybe even Sansa...

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Just now, nilyank said:

But Sansa didn't vote. Everyone else voted for Bran and then she said the North will be independent. As king, Bran gave his agreement that the North will be independent from tge Seven Kingdoms.  

The absurdity is that all these conniving aholes who hung back and saved their forces are suddenly amenable to the Starks calling all the shots just as they are at their weakest. Hadnt Dorne wanted or felt independent for ages? The Iron Jerks certainly had. Yet there was the Dorn tool and Asha meekly acquiescing to the North being independent while they remained under the yoke...of a robotic weirdo and his dwarf no less   

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9 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

I realized just how bad the show had gotten when I almost expected Jamie to awaken for a few last words with Tyrion.

I really think the last half hour of episode 4, along with the entirety of 5&6, are the worst  3 and a half hours of continuous television show I've ever watched, in terms of writing,  simply because I've never tolerated more than 60 minutes of anything that bad before. I guess the show, especially the cast of actors, had built up a lot of equity with me.

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21 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

So much unintentional comedy. Tyrion having to give a whole speech to that idiot Jon, so that the latter would realize that Dany is not exactly a Queen material.

This type of comment is patently unfair and ignores the character's personality completely.  Jon knew in his gut that Daenerys needed to be stopped.  You could see that in every reaction shot he got once she started torching King's Landing.  Tyrion was pushing Jon to take action before it was too late.  He didn't need to convince him that action was needed, only that he needed to do it.  The fact that Jon loved Daenerys and was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt even though his heart of hearts knew she was going against everything he believed in was the thing that made him loathe to act.  And the fact that Daenerys loved Jon and wanted him by her side was the only reason he was able to get close enough to do the job.

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10 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

The absurdity is that all these conniving aholes who hung back and saved their forces are suddenly amenable to the Starks calling all the shots just as they are at their weakest. Hadnt Dorne wanted or felt independent for ages? The Iron Jerks certainly had. Yet there was the Dorn tool and Asha meekly acquiescing to the North being independent while they remained under the yoke...of a robotic weirdo and his dwarf no less   

Yeah, why would any of the kingdoms be OK with being under the rule of creepy Bran (who will tell you he really isn't Bran anymore) and dopey Tyrion, who hasn't had a good idea since Season 2?  

Why not just take the opportunity to split into independent kingdoms like the North?

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Jaime said once, we don't choose, who we love and I have to say, he was right, because no matter how bloodthirsty, cruel or how many people she killed (and probable she killed more than anyone else in this show), I will always love this magnificent and beautiful character. She has outacted everyone else in this show, except for Lena and Peter, and I will always remember her powerful performance in the finale. Fly free and be safe, Drogon! I don't know what you're going to do with Dany's body. Maybe she'll pay proper respects or maybe she just needed a snack for the long flight. All I want for this smart girl is to lay hundreds of eggs and raise her little dragons. I can't stand the thought of her being alone.

Well, I didn't find the episode too terrible, but it was tedious at times with the long walks and speeches. I could have done with less Tyrion slow-walking and speechifying.

Dany: Yeah, that was expected, but I wish it had been anyone else but Jon. I've always found Kit very underwhelming trying to sell the love between Jon & Dany and this time was no different. The killing fell flat for me. Whatever, Drogon more than made up for his lack of emotion.

Jon: I can't believe Tyrion had to explain to him, the kind of monster Dany had turned into. His stupidity is just too much. He had as good an ending as he could have hoped, though. I think he'll be happy with the Wildings and Ghost, and there is no way he won't travel south every now and then to see his family. Good for him!

Tyrion: I love Peter, he's such a good actor! I can't deny he made me tear up over the bodies of the TrashTwins, but they gave him too many annoying monologues and I got tired of him. Did he deserve the be Hand of the King? Nah, but I'm not too bothered about that. Shout out to the amazing "Are you fucking kidding me right now?" face he gave Jon, when he said "Love is the death of duty".

Sansa: Long live The Queen In The North! I love that she didn't waver about the North Independence. She wouldn't bend the knee, not even to her brother. I love how she waited till the others had said "Aye!" to make her move and the others' surprised Pikachu faces. There is no way she won't make a political marriage and have children to carry on the Stark line. She will do her duty.

Arya The Explorer: I also love this for her. It's very much in character. She's free and adventurous. I'm sure she will visit Sansa and Bran every now and then, but she doesn't want to be tied down. Not yet. It's a happy ending for her.

Edmure: ❤️!

SweetRobbin: Eeerrr... a perfect "the advantages of breastfeeding into your teens" ad.

Bronn: Master of dying of the pox in a couple of months. It is known. 

Brienne: My beloved Brienne ❤️ She will be happy, I know that. I didn't love that she had to sing Jaime's praises, but she is the actual best and doesn't have a mean bone in her. Still, I would have written: A pile of bricks fell on him and nothing of value was lost.

Bran: He was playing the long con, wasn't he? I don't know, how it's going to work, though. Is he immortal? Will the 3ER download into a different body, when the current one dies and continue to rule with the next body? Also, Bran The Broken?!?!? Really, Tyrion!

Jaime and Cersei looked mighty fine for having a ton of bricks fallen on them 🙄

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5 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

This type of comment is patently unfair and ignores the character's personality completely.  Jon knew in his gut that Daenerys needed to be stopped.  You could see that in every reaction shot he got once she started torching King's Landing.  Tyrion was pushing Jon to take action before it was too late.  He didn't need to convince him that action was needed, only that he needed to do it.  The fact that Jon loved Daenerys and was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt even though his heart of hearts knew she was going against everything he believed in was the thing that made him loathe to act. And the fact that Daenerys loved Jon and wanted him by her side was the only reason he was able to get close enough to do the job.

Yes. Jon had been pulling away from her kisses since episode TWO, and she was trying to put the moves on him again (I didn’t like that). The dude wasn’t interested! I knew the second he didn’t pull away again she was dead  

I do feel awful about what Dany went through, I can believe she would be corrupted by the absolute power of her dragons BUT the writing was so poor. 

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2 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

And the fact that Daenerys loved Jon and wanted him by her side was the only reason he was able to get close enough to do the job.

It's not like Arya is a badass assassin who could have done the job with ease with nobody the wiser... oh wait.

3 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

 Jon knew in his gut that Daenerys needed to be stopped.  You could see that in every reaction shot he got once she started torching King's Landing.

But I couldn't see it because the actor who plays Jon can't act. He just looked vaguely confused. And even if we ignore that, Jon shouldn't need a speech from anyone to realize that what Daenerys had done was beyond the pale.

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21 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

I realized just how bad the show had gotten when I almost expected Jamie to awaken for a few last words with Tyrion.

When I saw Lena Headey and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in the opening credits, I was afraid they might have survived.   I guess they could have made the episode even worse, if that had been the case. 

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Did anyone else see the shoot of green grass pushing up through the snow just beyond the wall? Spring is coming!

I guess the NK only needed to knock down that one section of the wall to get through.

Bran never crossed my mind until I heard yesterday morning that he was the bookmakers' top choice.

Maybe Bran can't actually do anything about what will happen - maybe that is why he seems so serene - what will be, will be (que sera, sera).

So, we knew from the start that the ending wouldn't please everyone - it was an impossibility.

For any possible ending that could be imagined, there were some fans wanting that to happen - which would then be denounced as "catering to the fans" - no way to win that one.

Do I wish Jon had stood up to Dany more strongly? Yes! But he didn't.

I could understand Grey Worm going all bloody after witnessing Missandei's murder - he loved her - and the rest is just what he was actually raised to be - a stone cold killer.

Arya is doing what she always dreamed of doing, not generally allowed for a female in Westeros (except Yara, it seems) and I still hope that she will meet someone whom she can truly love and will be a true partner for her. She was friends with Gendry, but she didn't love him, not in that way.

And I hope Sansa will eventually have a prince consort whom she can love and trust. (Like Victoria)

Maybe Jon will meet Ygritte's younger sister - or one of Tormund's daughters.

Are dragons hermaphroditic? I'd love Drogon to lay or find more eggs.

Do I wish other things had happened? Yes, but you can't have everything. I was terrified Bronn would jump out of the shadows and murder Tyrion - but he got his reward instead. I've always had a soft spot for Bronn.

We are told GRMM told HBO and the showrunners how it was supposed to end - I'll assume that meeting was more than just a few casual sentences. Not only who would live or die, but what major events had to take place, and the how and why of the losers and survivors. Would he have dramatized it in a better manner? We can only guess.

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1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

Is it just me but by having so many show up after the Long Night are the insinuating that they ran and hid until the fight was over and then came back??

Well if they did then they hid with Northerners because thousands of those dudes seemed to have crawled out of woodwork after being supposedly decimated.

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1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

The sheer, unmitigated, sloth of it all is just jaw-dropping. Any studio head who would guarantee a mountain of cash to these two lazy asses,  for a future project, ought to be sued by shareholders.

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13 hours ago, nilyank said:

That was probably the best visual that this show ever gave us.

For a second, I thought that must have been a really tough visual to line up -- completely forgetting that it was CGI. 

It had the effect of making Dany look demonic to the viewers. There was also a lot of imagery that called back to the Nazi era -- the giant flag with the red insignia, the speech before the highly regimented troops -- all unsettling.

I wondered where in Kings Landing that giant set of stairs was exactly as it related to the wall around the city and how it escaped destruction.

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8 hours ago, merrick715 said:

I think Sansa's ending can be read either way. I don't think Sansa would want to have the Stark line die out, and throw the North into chaos. Elizabeth I had to name James VI as her heir.  Sansa doesn't have the Northern equivalent of Mary, Queen of Scots.

Eh. Some other family will just step up and rule. If nothing else, Northern people are a fickle bunch. 

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9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

When I saw Lena Headey and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in the opening credits, I was afraid they might have survived.   I guess they could have made the episode even worse, if that had been the case. 

I really thought that might happen when Tyrion discovered them almost on top of that pile of rubble, instead of the bottom of it. There were only a few bricks covering them, although when we last saw them, they were standing on the level floor.

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2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Unfortunately, at one angle of a shot, you could see the guides for the printing. But I didn't mind too much.

Bran did that. 

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6 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

It's not like Arya is a badass assassin who could have done the job with ease with nobody the wiser... oh wait.

But I couldn't see it because the actor who plays Jon can't act. He just looked vaguely confused. And even if we ignore that, Jon shouldn't need a speech from anyone to realize that what Daenerys had done was beyond the pale.

Varys already tried a secret assassination plan. The point was that it needed to be Jon bc no one else could get close enough to her as well as past Drogon. Arya would have been s’mored.

OAS, one of the many things that annoys me about Bran is how he functions as a moral arbiter. Both Theon and Jon looked to him for personal forgiveness but Bran had to go the ‘everything you did brought you here where you needed to be’ route which is 🤢

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(edited)
45 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

The absurdity is that all these conniving aholes who hung back and saved their forces are suddenly amenable to the Starks calling all the shots just as they are at their weakest. Hadnt Dorne wanted or felt independent for ages? The Iron Jerks certainly had. Yet there was the Dorn tool and Asha meekly acquiescing to the North being independent while they remained under the yoke...of a robotic weirdo and his dwarf no less   

A robotic king, rolling down his bloodstained halls to the tune of a twisted demon monkey.

Edited by Constantinople
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2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

A robotic king, rollin down his bloodstained halls to the tune of a twisted demon monkey.

The thing is, Tyrion is basically King. Bran was at council meeting for 1min then left to go warg-ing after a dragon. How long is that gonna take? How many times will a crucial decision be needed and Bran's eyes are rolled up in back of his head while he's off to who knows where.

Tyrion is king.

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2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They also sort of forget that the butterflies of Naath carry a disease that only the native are immune to and kills all outsiders who stay there for any extended period of time. 

You can see how they did remember and this was a “cryptic” way of indicating the fate they have chosen for themselves, right?

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2 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

So... Bran wins the Game of Thrones?

No. There is no winning here. There's just duty and responsibility. It's a burden, not a prize.

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Just now, MrsR said:

No. There is no winning here. There's just duty and responsibility. It's a burden, not a prize.

Really doesnt seem like it will be a burden to Bran.

Tyrion: King Bran! The Dothrakis have amassed a new army and are headed back here to destroy us...and it appears Drogon is with them!!

Bran: Who is this Bran you speak of?

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1 minute ago, tv-talk said:

Really doesnt seem like it will be a burden to Bran.

Tyrion: King Bran! The Dothrakis have amassed a new army and are headed back here to destroy us...and it appears Drogon is with them!!

Bran: Who is this Bran you speak of?

"I'm going to go now."  

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9 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

1) Who knows what might happen some day?  The evil north of the Wall has been beaten in the past and yet returned.
2) Viseron only blew a hole in it near Eastport.  The vast majority of the wall is fine.
3) The NW will be (as, let's face it -- it pretty much was a lot of the time) a penal colony and a place to ship off troublesome members of the family.

1. That's because previously the NK was defeated and/or retreated back to the Land of Always Winter when the real Long Night, the one in Essos in which Azor Ahai was involved, ended.  He was not killed, as he was here.  (We saw in the flashback that the current NK is same person the CoTF turned--or there was no point to that flashback.)

2.  The majority of the Wall is standing, but the majority of the castles have deteriorated.  

3.  Yeah, it was used as an alternative to more severe punishments--by the now-six kingdoms.  Now it's the northern border of a very large and totally independent kingdom that has no reason or intention of taking the South's rejects.

The Wall is now, at best, the border between the North and the real North.

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12 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Right, Drogon is apparently capable of abstract thought that seeking that stupid chair killed his Mommy, but not the concrete thought that the man who plunged a dagger into his Mommy's heart was standing in front of him.

Drogon sensed Jon's homicidal genetics and gave him a pass. Dany manipulated to have suicide by Stark.

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26 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

The thing is, Tyrion is basically King. Bran was at council meeting for 1min then left to go warg-ing after a dragon. How long is that gonna take? How many times will a crucial decision be needed and Bran's eyes are rolled up in back of his head while he's off to who knows where.

Tyrion is king.

Bran is going to tell Bronn that the best use of capital is getting an opium den, as good as the one that Bran visited in Winterfell when he forgot to find Euron's fleet, open for business in burned out King's Landing.

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10 hours ago, SueB said:

Jon - I think he got a great ending for him.  There's totally no "NightWatch" anymore.  He's off to bed some nice wilding woman and make broody children.

I don't know about the broody part.  I saw a definite hint of a smile on his face as he rode away from the empty CB and into the wilderness.  😉

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(edited)
6 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Yeah, it was used as an alternative to more severe punishments--by the now-six kingdoms.  Now it's the northern border of a very large and totally independent kingdom that has no reason or intention of taking the South's rejects.

Jon the Most Honorable and True isnt even in the Night's Watch, that was just a lie to avoid being executed which Grey Worm strangely accepted. He's a member of the Free Folk now.

ps- I love the notion that Gray Worm, a guy who was neutered as a kid and went thru unspeakable evils to become a ruthless killing machine, was made to see the justice in a "lifetime sentence."

"Oh so you mean Jon will have to ride about on a horse looking forlorn? Yes, yes, no need to execute him for killing the Queen, this will suffice."

Edited by tv-talk
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11 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

How does Sansa know Bran can't father children, by the way? His 🍆 isn't paralyzed as well, is it?

Bran, the 3-eyed Raven, does not need the ability to father children because he is essentially immortal. At the end of his life, he could simply possess whomever he chooses as his successor. 

I think the intellectual dishonesty of not acknowledging the implication of "not Bran" but the 3-eyed Raven, is what bothers me the most about the ending. Many viewed Dany with suspicion from the start. However, not one person is concerned with the potential threat of having someone on the throne that they don't really know because "not Bran."  This person has the power to warg into animals and people, and for a brief amount of time control them.  He revealed in his reply to Tyrion that he can not only see the past, but the future. Good luck, if you ever plan to plot against him.  Finally, they were left with the impression that this "Council of Kingdoms" would have the authority to select the next ruler.  How is this the case when the only way the 3-eyed Raven passes the torch is through his own choice of a replacement.  Furthermore, he still lives on in this new vessel, correct?  If so, he never dies.  

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2 hours ago, Constantinople said:
3 hours ago, Kate47 said:

It's basically come back around full circle, where the council makes decisions for a King who isn't interested at all in sitting in on the meetings or helping to rule. Used to be Bobby B, now it's Bran the B. 

It really did feel like fanfiction. 

In some ways it's worse.

Robert Baratheon at least had enough charisma that men would follow him into battle.

Then there's Bran's reaction to Meera's departure.

Quote

Bran: You're leaving?

Meera: I don't want to leave you, but when they come I need to be with my family. And you're safe, safe as anyone can be now. You don't need me anymore.

Bran: No, I don't.

Meera: That's all you've got to say?

Bran: Thank you.

Meera: Thank you?

Bran: For helping me.

Meera: My brother died for you. Hodor and Summer died for you. I almost died for you. Bran!

Bran: I'm not really, not anymore. I remember what it felt like to be Brandon Stark, but I remember so much else now.

People don't want a robot for a king

Bran is distinguished by one thing: he has no friends and no alliances.

No one has to worry about some one bending Bran's ear- neither are listening to anyone. 

Decisions are easier to make if the one person with a veto doesn't care and has shown no indication he will ever have an original thought. 

Bran is vanilla pudding to which someone forgot to add vanilla flavoring. 

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I feel for those poor folks who have to listen to BRAN give speeches. Pack a lunch people, cuz those will be ungodly slow and monotone. 

So Drogon gets woke and melts the throne. He was fine torching innocents in the streets, but now he's gonna let Jon live and calmly leave. What the fuck was Jon's plan if Drogon went apeshit and started killing everyone? He had none, of course. 

Bran accepting the throne: "Why do you think I came all this way?!" Oh you, how cheeky, but um, if you knew in advance, maybe you could have given everyone a heads up about the massacre. Just saying.

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54 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes. Jon had been pulling away from her kisses since episode TWO, and she was trying to put the moves on him again (I didn’t like that). The dude wasn’t interested! I knew the second he didn’t pull away again she was dead  

I do feel awful about what Dany went through, I can believe she would be corrupted by the absolute power of her dragons BUT the writing was so poor. 

See I didn't.  He was appropriately conflicted that I thought he just gave in.

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