S08.E06: The Iron Throne

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

Pretty sure Grey Worm had power because he commanded the army that was in control of the city.

And then we had Sansa's dumb ass threaten him with her 10 Northerners, lol. Not to mention Yara and the Iron Born being there and being Dany supporters. I really wish GreyWorm had taken Sansa up on her threat and showed her what's what. She really is the new Cersei and gets a pass for all the stupid things she does.

I wish Jon would have been given the chance to confront her about her betrayal but of course D&D are not going to allow for any of that to happen to their fave.

[lucindabelle]

Yes Jon being a Targaryen was only relevant in that it made dany insecure. She was worried about his claim and hurt when he pulled away and apparently couldn’t even theorize about why (though she’d never seemed stupid before).

and while those things matter, the fact that Jon is the legitimate child of a couple who were married but whose love started a war seems like it should matter more.

i am still bitter we’ll never know why Lyanna stark ran away with a married man and rhaegar got a maester To annul his marriage to Elia.

why are they talking about brothels and ships? Doesn’t the city need rebuilding?

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

why are they talking about brothels and ships? Doesn’t the city need rebuilding?

I'm not that bothered by the ships. The kingdoms are weakened and susceptible to foreign attacks and invasions. Building up their defenses makes sense to me.

[lucindabelle]

Just now, bijoux said:

I'm not that bothered by the ships. The kingdoms are weakened and susceptible to foreign attacks and invasions. Building up their defenses makes sense to me.

Serious question:attack by whom?

[RealityCreator]

5 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Yes Jon being a Targaryen was only relevant in that it made dany insecure. She was worried about his claim and hurt when he pulled away and apparently couldn’t even theorize about why (though she’d never seemed stupid before).

and while those things matter, the fact that Jon is the legitimate child of a couple who were married but whose love started a war seems like it should matter more.

i am still bitter we’ll never know why Lyanna stark ran away with a married man and rhaegar got a maester To annul his marriage to Elia.

why are they talking about brothels and ships? Doesn’t the city need rebuilding?

Yes.  To all of this.  

[pfk505]

I sincerely hope we get better than this in the books. It's not so much what happened but how we got there. The show never used Bran properly and never showed the audience why he is important. The show absolutely massacred Daenerys and Jon's characters in order to serve the plot. Please George, take back your legacy.

Daenerys especially really hurts. That scene should have been so tragic and full of emotion but it was just so basic and empty. I'd go so far to say that in the books Daenerys is one of fantasy literature's greatest ever characters. And here she got a totally unearned Nazi heel turn for shock value and so we could end the show in 3 episodes.

Edited May 20, 2019 by pfk505

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, lucindabelle said:

Serious question:attack by whom?

Whoever, really. There's a big world out there, the places the Westerosi know of and the places they don't. Personally, I don't think their continent is worth the effort, but both the Andals and the Targaryens conquered it in the past. So it doesn't seem impossible to me.

On another note and unrelated to your post, I remember people bringing up the Night Watch and its function now the Army of the Dead is defeated. Basically, I think it reverted back to what it was seen as for centuries before the show began, this world's version of Australia. Everybody had stopped believing in any danger from beyond the wall aside from the Free Folk and you hardly need a magic continent-spanning wall to ward them off. It's a penal colony with some people (bastards and orphans) ending up there simply because they have no where else to go.

[anamika]

[Oscirus]

31 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

i am still bitter we’ll never know why Lyanna stark ran away with a married man and rhaegar got a maester To annul his marriage to Elia.

why are they talking about brothels and ships? Doesn’t the city need rebuilding?

Lyanna was a young girl stuck in a loveless betrothal, Rhaegar offered her a way out.

Because Brothels make a lot of money for the city

[lucindabelle]

Lyanna was not stuck In a loveless marriage on the show. But even if she were it’s very unstark like to run off with a married man, who has kids. Her being a young girl means what? Arya was a young girl. Lyanna is described as much more like Arya than sansa.

How do brothels make money for the city? Are they taxed?

im serious we got victim porn last week. People need food medicine and shelter and the bros are telling sex jokes.

Edited May 20, 2019 by lucindabelle

[Oscirus]

52 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Arya is the Night King Killer, Sansa is the Lady of Winterfell. I feel like Daavos is Jon's lawyer. He even questioned his own right to a vote. I guess Brienne is there for Tarth? Also I figured security for Sansa. Robin has his steward with him (I liked that Robin looked at him before voting to get permission). We have Dorne, Stormlands, Riverlands, Vale, Winterfell, Pyke, but no Reach or Old Town? Maybe one of those guys was Old Town 

While being a nice bit of trivia, still no reason for Arya to be there.  Matter of fact it would've made more sense for Arya to be at winterfell, to allow Bran and Sansa to travel to kings landing.  There are no lawyers here, Davos shouldn't have been there either. And Bronn should've been there instead of Sam but I'll chalk that up to Sam representing Bronn. 

I get that they needed that final goodbye between the starks which is why they were all there, but they definitely could've handled that better.

[MrsR]

32 minutes ago, bijoux said:

why are they talking about brothels

It sets up Tyrion to repeat his "jackass and a honeycomb in a brothel" joke which we heard twice before.

[lucindabelle]

Just now, MrsR said:

It sets up Tyrion to repeat his "jackass and a honeycomb in a brothel" joke which we heard twice before.

Yep. Agreed. And D&d love this kinda thing. On brand. 

[jeansheridan]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

There are no lawyers here, Davos shouldn't have been there either.

I just meant he was Jon's second in command. He was there as the head of the Northern army perhaps. 

Honestly they just wanted a final scene with all the main actors. I am okay with that.

[Minneapple]

32 minutes ago, pfk505 said:

I sincerely hope we get better than this in the books. 

We probably won't, because the books ain't happening. 

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Lyanna was not stuck In a loveless marriage on the show. But even if she were it’s very in stark like to run off with a married man, who has kids. 

How do brothels make money for the city? Are they taxed?

She was engaged to Robert on the show, even if they didn't make it obvious, they did imply she wasn't particularly happy about it. I tend to give Lyanna a break in regards to her running off with a married man being that she was so young when this all happened and susceptible to someone like Rhaegar.

They tend to be government run and if not there tends to be some form of government payment for them to look the other way.

[jeansheridan]

2 minutes ago, MrsR said:

why are they talking about brothels

It's also very Bronn. And Tyrion. When Jon expresses distain for King's Landing Tyrion mentions more jobs and better brothels. It's how he and Bronn think. 

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Honestly they just wanted a final scene with all the main actors. I am okay with that.

I just wish they'd done more with it. Which seems to be my main complaint about the way the show ended. Overall, the bones of it are fine, I just wish they'd done more and fleshed it out.

[jeansheridan]

Jon greeting Ghost was everything. Let the healing begin. I expect happy Jon and Tormund fanfiction.

[lucindabelle]

5 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

She was engaged to Robert on the show, even if they didn't make it obvious, they did imply she wasn't particularly happy about it. I tend to give Lyanna a break in regards to her running off with a married man being that she was so young when this all happened and susceptible to someone like Rhaegar.

They tend to be government run and if not there tends to be some form of government payment for them to look the other way.

Sorry what you see as giving her a break I’m reading as condescending misogyny. I’ll spell it out AGAIN. Lyanna was NOT a silly young girl like sansa. That is canon in the book and show.

it is NOT in a stark upbringing to lie and sneak and cause pain. So I assume there was some good reason that she felt entitled to take another woman’s husband.

also annulment by a maester surely needs SOME sort of grounds.

who says they tend to be government run? Where does it say that, or is it implied in show?

i found it also yet more bro nonsense so Tyrion could tell his joke.

[jeansheridan]

Wanted to add I will miss over analyzing this show to death with you all. From TWOP to Previously TV to here. It's been so much fun. 

[Brn2bwild]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

We probably won't, because the books ain't happening. 

There's always fanfic...

That said, it's depressing we'll never get to see a Westeros that's more diverse-looking and multicultural.  That was never going to be a reality from Episode 4 onward, but I still mourn the complicated, frustrating, yet also satisfying story thread the show could have had of different cultures learning to live together.  

And also, fuck you, Tyrion.  However unforgivable Dany's actions, she is not worse than your evil sister and father.  Tywin and Cersei destroyed lives for pleasure and because they craved power.  They would never dream of trying to help people, as Dany did, and if they had even one dragon, they would probably would have blackened Westeros with it in the time it took Dany to save Jon beyond the Wall and fight in the Battle of Winterfell.  

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Sorry what you see as giving her a break I’m reading as condescending misogyny. I’ll spell it out AGAIN. Lyanna was NOT a silly young girl like sansa. That is canon in the book and show.

it is NOT in a stark upbringing to lie and sneak and cause pain. So I assume there was some good reason that she felt entitled to take another woman’s husband.

also annulment by a maester surely needs SOME sort of grounds.

who says they tend to be government run? Where does it say that, or is it implied in show?

i found it also yet more bro nonsense so Tyrion could tell his joke.

She  wasn't thinking. Even from the best reading, she barely knew the dude and ran off with him knowing the consequences so it can either be chalked up to youthful naivete, narcissism or stupidly believing in a prophecy told to her by a guy she just met. There  was no good reason regardless.

They're talking about bringing back Brothels, so I assume its government run. Also doubles as a way to have that honeycomb call back.

[Glade]

I was waiting for a final shot of Bran's vision depicting Drogon with baby dragons next to Dany's grave in the ruins of Valyria.  Because Bran isn't 'useless' as some have claim, he can warg into animals and humans, see the past and sometimes the future; a very wise king who can't be fooled and plotted against or controlled by the lords of the land.  I do wish his character had been written better the past two seasons--depicting him glaring at people and speaking in monotone was a poor choice when he has such amazing powers.

Otherwise…I guess Dany did break the wheel after all?  If she hadn't come, who would have toppled Cersei?  It's quite odd though seeing Kings Landing populated by Dothraki and the Unsullied, since she murdered all the common folk who used to live there, and had no subjects, no 'people of kings landing' to address, just her armies.  And hey, no one offered Jon the goo-throne either, he was sent back beyond the wall, I guess the Lord of Light still has stuff for him to do, unlike Mel and Beric?  It was sweet seeing him finally pet Ghost, and Sansa is queen of the north, but the family will never be together again.

It's too bad Dany or someone else didn't kill Bronn though, I can't stand him and the oversized role he was given on the show.  He didn't deserve more lines then the shocking all grown up Robin of the Vale was given in this episode.  I also would rather have some word that Edmure is happy with his wife and child, moreso then just him being used as comic relief.  I wanted more Yara this season, seeing her mourning her brother and taking leadership of the Iron Islands would have been nice.  I'd also like to have seen some shot of Meera Reed, hopefully finding happiness; I still mourn Jojen.  And with all the shots of Sam, where was Gilly and their son?  The book 'A Song Of Ice and Fire' showing up felt like a tired cliché, whereas it had more meaning in LOTR.

This was a terrible final season, but it's over.    

[spaceghostess]

Still processing, but I will say that the spoilers this season did me a solid. Being prepared for the suckage made it less traumatic, so yay?

Emilia killed it this ep, which made it all the more frustrating to consider what she could have done with better material over the seasons. It would have been amazing to see a well-written buildup to what she became, and based on tonight, I believe Emilia could definitely have pulled it off. In the scene where Tyrion quits, there's a second of Dany looking devastated before she orders him taken away; excellently done, as was her time alone in the throne room and then with Jon. I was relieved she died quickly; Jon knew what he was doing in that respect, at least. 

I can't be pissed with Sansa for asking (demanding) Northern independence since that's what she's been banging on about forever--and her baby brother's king, so chances were good. But yeah, what about the Iron Islands? Yara got what, two lines? Ridiculous. I would have died laughing if Bran had said "No free North, sorry; I have my reasons. But Yara, you and your people go and rule your own selves."

I can, however, be pissed with Sansa for sidling up and asking Jon (again) for forgiveness after (again) putting him in mortal danger to suit her own purposes. Of course, from her perspective, it doesn't hurt to ask--and this is Show Jon we're talking about, so she's not only forgiven, but given a gold star. Huh. I think Sansa wins the Game of Thrones, since BranBot doesn't care about winning.

And speaking of Bran, I hope he leaves Drogon the hell alone and/or Drogon goes to a place too remote to be tracked.* Also? Tyrion gave Bran a crappy king name and God-kings are creepy bullshit. 

I did like the chair-dragging callback in the Small Council chamber, but no, Bronn should not be there. He's a literal MERCENARY, and as such is 100 percent corruptible. But when it comes to keeping the realm in brothels and dick jokes, he's your man, I suppose.

And finally, Jon was served his biggest shit sandwich ever. Just another day at the office, then. I don't hate or resent him--he can't help how he's been written, and I thought Kit did a good job with what he was given. He had so few scenes to build a relationship with Dany, but I bought Jon's devastation in his talk with Tyrion and then with Dany in the throne room. Yeah, he's not manning The Wall, he's nopeing on outta there with the Wildlings . . . and possibly, someday, getting with a nice woman who won't shoot him full of arrows. But most importantly, he'll be the best dad to Ghost from now on and supply his good boy with cuddles and lots and lots of elk-meat snausages. That, I can't complain about.

ETA: I was glad that Arya didn't try to kill Dany or anyone else. I think what the Hound told her landed and Needle will only be used in self defense (or defense of innocents) during her travels.

*I mean physically tracked and ballista'd. There is, of course, no escape from the 3ER's remote stalking.

Edited May 20, 2019 by spaceghostess

[Sentient Meat]

1 hour ago, AshleyN said:

Pretty sure Grey Worm had power because he commanded the army that was in control of the city.

Of course I got that part... I just didn't think fascism was the message they were trying to convey.  He was summarily executing people in the street after they had surrendered.

I'm surprised that they are trying to build a better world and that issue wasn't addressed.

[Callista]

1 hour ago, pfk505 said:

I sincerely hope we get better than this in the books.

VIEWERS TO GRRM:  Will we get a better-written story in the books?

GRRM:  Ask me again in ten years.

[Callista]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

Jon greeting Ghost was everything. Let the healing begin. I expect happy Jon and Tormund fanfiction.

Yes, I love how Jon found another red-haired wildling to be happy with. 🙂

[spaceghostess]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

 And also, fuck you, Tyrion.  However unforgivable Dany's actions, she is not worse than your evil sister and father.  Tywin and Cersei destroyed lives for pleasure and because they craved power.  They would never dream of trying to help people, as Dany did, and if they had even one dragon, they would probably would have blackened Westeros with it in the time it took Dany to save Jon beyond the Wall and fight in the Battle of Winterfell.  

 

^This.^

I couldn't bring myself to even talk about Tyrion in my earlier post, but yes, I was thinking the same. I loved how they had him rehash all the bullet points about how we should have seen the Mad Queen coming. You know, just in case we weren't prepared to buy what they were selling, Tyrion would tell us why we should. Good grief.

Edited May 20, 2019 by spaceghostess

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

It made no sense that Sansa, Arya, and Bran were all there to begin with. The North didn’t need all three of them to represent. 

They all needed to be there for Jon. 

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

While being a nice bit of trivia, still no reason for Arya to be there.  Matter of fact it would've made more sense for Arya to be at winterfell, to allow Bran and Sansa to travel to kings landing.  There are no lawyers here, Davos shouldn't have been there either. And Bronn should've been there instead of Sam but I'll chalk that up to Sam representing Bronn. 

I get that they needed that final goodbye between the starks which is why they were all there, but they definitely could've handled that better.

I think it was the remains of the houses i. Westeros that came to hand. 

[Eyes High]

Given that Bran told Tyrion that he mostly lives in the past, Tyrion’s actions (while no doubt taken out of the goodness of his heart) are the perfect Machiavellian power play.

1. Resign as Hand in dramatic and public fashion, forcing Dany to imprison you.

2. Count on Jon’s conscience to lead him to visit you. Impress upon him the need to get rid of Dany. When all other appeals to reason fail, invoke his sisters.

3. Wait for Jon to do the deed, confident that this will take him out of the king running. Dany and Jon are both eliminated as contenders.

4. Propose that the lords and ladies of Westeros choose a new ruler. When they’re stymied, suggest Bran, whom you know will be the perfect puppet (“Mostly I live in the past”) and whom you reasonably assume will choose you as Hand, leaving you as king in all but name.

5. When Bran does choose you as Hand, modestly demur for the sake of appearances. You mustn’t look too eager.

6. Suggest to Bran that Jon get ordered to the NW as an acceptable compromise. Pass this off to Jon as Bran’s idea. This permanently eliminates Jon as a potential claimant and secures your power.

7. Make good on your promise to Bronn, making him one of the most powerful people in Westeros, and put him on your small council. 

So without dirtying his own hands, Tyrion managed to manipulate Jon into killing Dany, manipulate the council into selecting a king of his choosing, and ending up as the effective king of Westeros. All while he’s a prisoner! And they say Tyrion’s not as smart as he used to be.

[Amtosbm]

I honestly am heartbroken Dany ended up a crazy bitch who had to be killed. I was pulling for her after all the shit she went through. So much for boat sex baby. Can I dream in my head that while back in the North Jon meets this beautiful, tough, amazing Wilding named Val who he falls in love with and marries? Cause that shit should happen in the book. And I am afraid if George finishes them Val, my fave character will be treated about as well. Plus Ghost loves Val. And well, thank god Ghost lived. I really haven't been invested in this series for a few years now but its nice to get an ending. Those predicting Bran would be on the Iron Throne - I salute you. Cause I never really thought it would happen.

[Haleth]

Haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm sure it will be a very unpopular opinion that I loved the ending.  I loved seeing Jon, Arya, and Sansa embarking on their new lives, full of hope, just where they needed to be.  Loved that the editing showed us all 3 simultaneously.  Being a die hard member of Team Stark, it was a great ending for me.  I'm a little less sure why Bran should be king.  After all, story or no story, he seemed so withdrawn from human emotion and needs.  Or maybe being dispassionate is what the 7 6 kingdoms need.  Whatever.

If I only knew what we know up through book 5, I never in a million years would guess that Dany loses her mind and Jon kills her.  If this is Martin's intended ending he truly breaks the trope.  Normally one would expect Dany and Jon to rule, either together or separately (with one dying in the arms of the other), then all the major characters get married, have lots of babies, and live happily ever after.  Nope.  Instead we have Tyrion sentenced to a life of heavy lifting for a ruler who stares at the walls, Jon throwing off duty to live in the only place he ever felt free, and Arya sailing off to Valinor, I mean setting off on a new adventure.  Only Sansa gets the fantasy trope ending of her own kingdom.  At least there was no husband in sight.

[stagmania]

6 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I fully believe this is GRRM's ending. Jon kills Dany and the Starks rise up. Bran as king, Sansa ruling the North, Arya exploring (just as Nymeria can't be contained, nor can Arya) and Jon living among the free folk, perhaps even becoming King Beyond the Wall (with Tormund as his consort of course).

D&D utterly mucked up everything in the leadup, but this ending is definitely A Time For Wolves.

I don’t believe Sansa will be a Queen in the books - more likely Warden of the North. That seemed like obvious fan service and didn’t really make any sense. Why on earth would ruling families consent to the Starks ruling two kingdoms in Westeros while they all kneel? 

5 hours ago, pfk505 said:

I sincerely hope we get better than this in the books. It's not so much what happened but how we got there. The show never used Bran properly and never showed the audience why he is important. The show absolutely massacred Daenerys and Jon's characters in order to serve the plot. Please George, take back your legacy.

Daenerys especially really hurts. That scene should have been so tragic and full of emotion but it was just so basic and empty. I'd go so far to say that in the books Daenerys is one of fantasy literature's greatest ever characters. And here she got a totally unearned Nazi heel turn for shock value and so we could end the show in 3 episodes.

Yes to all of this. I don’t think we ever will get better because I doubt he’s ever finishing those books.

4 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

And also, fuck you, Tyrion.  However unforgivable Dany's actions, she is not worse than your evil sister and father.  Tywin and Cersei destroyed lives for pleasure and because they craved power.  They would never dream of trying to help people, as Dany did, and if they had even one dragon, they would probably would have blackened Westeros with it in the time it took Dany to save Jon beyond the Wall and fight in the Battle of Winterfell.  

I wanted to scream throughout that entire meta speech. Revisionist history through and through, both about Dany and the cruelty of his own family. Tywin sent the Moutain raiding through villages to rape and pillage the smallfolk and Cersei blew up the pope, but I guess we’re not supposed to think about that.  It’s absurd that they would consent to a Lannister running the kingdom after all that.

4 hours ago, Glade said:

Otherwise…I guess Dany did break the wheel after all?  

No, she really didn’t, though the show really wanted us to think that’s what happened! Yes, the iron throne was melted. But the ruling structure is exactly the same, and the way it shook out with the Starks seizing unilateral power I would expect another civil war to break out within a decade. Hell, Yara is probably going to start reaving again on her way home.

46 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

So without dirtying his own hands, Tyrion managed to manipulate Jon into killing Dany, manipulate the council into selecting a king of his choosing, and ending up as the effective king of Westeros. All while he’s a prisoner! And they say Tyrion’s not as smart as he used to be.

I would have liked it so much better if they had explicitly written it this way. As it is, we’re just supposed to believe that there are no consequences for Tyrion trying to help Cersei escape and committing treason against his own Queen, that everyone still thinks he’s a great guy and a competent Hand, and we’re to continue thinking of him as a hero. The mind boggles.

Edited May 20, 2019 by stagmania

[Clare]

Question. Was that supposed to snow or ash that was falling in Kings Landing?  It made more sense to be ash but it looked like snow to me and the wind sound effects made it sound like it was snowing.

I mostly liked the ending.  I liked the Jon and Tyrion conversations.  I liked that all the Stacks go their version of a happy ending.  

[lucindabelle]

5 hours ago, Oscirus said:

She  wasn't thinking. Even from the best reading, she barely knew the dude and ran off with him knowing the consequences so it can either be chalked up to youthful naivete, narcissism or stupidly believing in a prophecy told to her by a guy she just met. There  was no good reason regardless.

They're talking about bringing back Brothels, so I assume its government run. Also doubles as a way to have that honeycomb call back.

So you’re ASSUMING sits government run.

also where does “she wasn’t thinking” come from? And what is with the “young girl” trope? That is straight misogyny. 

I want an explanation, and “she was a girl” does not cut it.

[YaddaYadda]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

Lord Commander of the Kingsguard traditionally is on the council. Barristan Selmy wasn't because he had served Aerys previously.

Not true. Barristan Selmy was part of the small council. In fact, when Robert found out Dany was pregnant and wanted to send assassins after her, he and Ned were the only ones who object to it. I don't remember if the show did that, but the show can also fuck off.

Way to get rid of the Lannisters to have a Lannister be the most powerful man in the realm or whatever is left of it.

How is there no revolt over this after everything that's happened? Everyone just accepts things meekly. The situation is actually worse than when the show started.

[jcin617]

I was thinking last night that in a way, Dany did break the wheel:  no more hereditary Kings or Queens.  Of course, they've invented the Holy Roman Empire instead, only with the various lord paramounts as electors.   As others have said though, I don't know why the other 6 Kingdoms were all cool with the North saying CYA!     I guess not much position to argue when her uncle rules the Riverlands, her cousin is Lord of the Vale, her sister's friend is Lord of the Stormlands and her brother is the King.

Edited May 20, 2019 by jcin617

[chrisvee]

9 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Well, he was the only one who could stop Dany, I suppose.     He's probably the only one Drogon would let through.

That’s what I thought too. And of course it was the trigger for Dany’s downward mental spiral as well as the plotting against her.

[chrisvee]

37 minutes ago, Clare said:

Question. Was that supposed to snow or ash that was falling in Kings Landing?  It made more sense to be ash but it looked like snow to me and the wind sound effects made it sound like it was snowing.

I mostly liked the ending.  I liked the Jon and Tyrion conversations.  I liked that all the Stacks go their version of a happy ending.  

I thought it started as ash and ended as snow.

So the fire burned to ash then it was snowing to herald the time for wolves. Drogon covered in snow letting Jon Snow in to kill mom.

[Sakura12]

I don't think the wheel was really broken, they chose a King that can't have kids, which would've been the same for Dany. Its basically the same system, the rich get to chose and rule and they just gave all the power to one family, The Starks. 

The council is made up of a Hand that is partially responsible for what happened, a corruptible cutthroat is the Master of Coin, Sam is a maester with no chains. I'll give them Davos, he's the best out of the bunch. And Brieanne who is probably that surviving Knight. That looks the same old to me. As evident with their talk about funding brothels instead of getting food and ships. To the small folk probably not much as changed, the rich lords still dont care about them. Then they have a King that that doesn't make decisions and can just roll his eyes in the back of his head when he doesn't want to listen to people. 

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, meligator said:

Bran being king is bullshit. Did the Dothraki really just say -okay, peace - and leave?

Bran even being Bran is BS.  He has been telling everyone he is not Brandon Stark anymore for several seasons.    He couldn't be Lord of Winterfell, but he can be King of the Seven Six Kingdoms?

Can these incompetent writers even keep their own stories straight?

[CherryMalotte]

6 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

i am still bitter we’ll never know why Lyanna stark ran away with a married man and rhaegar got a maester To annul his marriage to Elia.

Well to quote Bran who is quoting Jamie back to him, and 10CC - the things we do for love.  

[WatchrTina]

Random GoT-related thoughts of the morning:

1. Who called that council together?  Who decided to NOT kill Jon when he confessed to killing Dany? (And you just KNOW he confessed.)  It had to be Grey Worm (sorry, I can't spell his name in Valyrian.)  Everyone else with any power from Team Dany was dead or in a jail cell. And only Grey Worm -- who was publicly named as head of Dany's armed forces -- could have kept the Dothraki from killing Jon once they knew Dany was dead at his hands.  So for all his glowering at the mention of Jon during the trial and later at him when Jon was being escorted to his ship (to sail to the Wall), it had to be Grey Worm who actually kept Jon alive.
2. And speaking of the Dothraki, I sure hope a few of those ships were being loaded up with them and their horses -- sending them back home so that they could run wild on the great grass sea and consult with their council of wise women at Vas Dothrak. Because if they stay in Westeros . . . that's gonna be a problem.

Edited May 25, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, Callista said:

Yes, I love how Jon found another red-haired wildling to be happy with. 🙂

He swore (again) to take no wife and father no children.  

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

He swore (again) to take no wife and father no children.  

He also swore to go to the Wall, but I don’t think that ending necessarily states he’s going to go back there after escorting the Free Folk home.

[benteen]

Disappointing.  Disappointing end to a disappointing season.  This seemed to be a rush job by D&D and without any more source material to go on, they didn’t have the talent to pull it off.  I’m not letting GRRM off the hook.  He got famous and lazy and lost interest in writing the story and we’re left with this.

Biggest disappointment…that Jon’s Targaryen lineage meant absolutely NOTHING.  You could have told the same exact story tonight and this season without it.  Jon doesn’t get to sit on the Iron Thrones and just ends back with the Night’s Watch (which is completely useless now).  I’m glad they had Jon actually kill Dany as they had spent the three seasons since The Battle of the Bastards neutering the character but again, even with finishing off Dany he had to be pushed and prodded to do it.  He never should have been making excuses for what Dany had just done.  Jon does have a clear sense of right and wrong.  TV Jon just goes whatever direction the wind takes him and has no sense of agency about him at all.

Also, the fact that he was still alive after that was a joke.  Maybe Drogon didn’t kill Jon because he was a Targaryen and he realized his “mother” had gone too far.  I can hand wave that to a degree.  But how the hell didn’t Grey Worm and the Unsullied not kill Jon the instant they learned he killed Dany?  They were killing Lannister guards who had surrendered in the streets but they decide to hold onto Jon?  Why?  And Tyrion too…why not kill them both?  What were they holding King’s Landing for?  You can’t give them their own House because they can’t reproduce so why not just kill the both of them and leave King’s Landing?

Dany’s death was dull and anticlimactic.  Despite my criticisms, D&D are capable of better.  I suspect it won’t be in the books but then again, we are never going to get to read those. 

Bran as King?  Well, that is an off-beat choice I’ll give them that but I don’t exactly see Bran’s future going that way.  Weak decision overall.

If there’s one thing about it I will say that’s interesting…Bran finally made it King’s Landing.  That’s where he was supposed to go with Ned and all the rest before he was nearly killed.

I agree though…if GRRM told D&D this, why did they have Bran off-camera for an entire season?

Sansa getting pissy and declaring the North is a separate kingdom was ridiculous too.  It makes no sense.  The North wouldn’t want a son of Ned Stark to be their king?  Why not?  If they want to be a separate kingdom, why don’t the rest of them want to be a separate kingdom too?  Wouldn’t Yara and the Ironborn just form their own kingdom?  What about Dorne?  What’s the point of them having a Six or Seven Kingdoms now?  They might as well revert back to what they used to be before Aegon.

One of my favorite moments tonight though was when they all started to laugh when Sam suggested letting the people decide (including Sansa which doesn’t surprise me at all).  Enjoyed that bit from Royce saying he should let his horse have a vote.  I believe completely in democracy and think that is the future of Westeros.  But not until many centuries into the future.  Game of Thrones is about kings and queens and lords and ladies.  Not democracy.  I’m shocked that D&D didn’t follow that trope.

I admit I like the idea of Arya wanting to explore what’s beyond the Sunset Sea.  I’ve always found that fascinating…maybe she’ll find the descendants of that missing Stark fleet.  Arya has never shown any interesting in exploration though and I always thought she would have become a wandering King’s Justice in Westeros and Essos.  But I guess even she didn’t want to be near Queen Sansa and who could blame her.

I will say exploring is at least a more positive goal for her then killing and maybe she’ll find some peace.  Poor Gendry is probably never going to see her again though.

Sorry, Jon, you do NOT get to warmly greet Ghost after giving him away like a junker car two weeks ago.

I liked Brienne on the Kingsguards with Ser Podrick and seeing the White Book again.  Bronn as Lord of the Reach is ridiculous but it figures he’d be working with Tyrion.  I liked seeing the various Lords assembled although it looks like they brought back Edmure just to embarrass him again.  Jon going to live with the Wildings….well, at least he’d have a chance to happiness there.

I didn’t like Tyrion being “sentenced” to life as the Hand of the King.  TV Tyrion isn’t Book Tyrion.  D&D took away all of his negative traits and made him St. Tyrion.  He isn’t the bastard that Book Tyrion is and therefore I don’t think he deserved what he got.

Bittersweet ending?  I guess.  But filled with TV tropes.

Anyway, been fun, folks!

[spaceghostess]

Just now, bijoux said:

He also swore to go to the Wall, but I don’t think that ending necessarily states he’s going to go back there after escorting the Free Folk home.

Weeellll, technically Tyrion did the swearing when he told Jon his "sentence." We never witnessed Jon repeating the oath. Also, everyone there at the Wall (including some Night's Watch-looking guys, if I'm not mistaken) seemed cool with him strolling out with the Wildlings. That could mean he was going out ranging, but I choose to believe that everyone at the Wall was prepared to cover for him as he sets off to a new life in the "real North." That's my fanwank and I'm sticking to it.

[Callista]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

He swore (again) to take no wife and father no children.  

Well, that's why Tormund (the red-haired wildling I was referring to) is perfect for him.