S08.E05: The Bells

[WaltersHair]

Arya has a new list.

[RealReality]

There was a poster above who said that dany's "reasoning" was proof she hadn't gone mad.  The post was pretty long so I didn't want to quote, but I disagree.

I think being able to "reason" your way into justifying crappy behavior doesnt particularly make a person sane.  I'm sure the mad king was plenty able to reason away his behavior.

[jade.black]

Aside from the piss poor lack of setup, I liked this. If there had been any proper storytelling or decent execution to Dany's mental break, I think this would have actually been fantastic. As the show as gone about it though, it looks like we watched an overall good-hearted person despite some arrogance and ruthlessness snap because she showed up in a new country for a few weeks and people didn't love her yet (and her nephew doesn't want to sleep with her now that he's found out they're related). It was a bullshit setup and that's why the "payoff" just seems out of left field. 

And for show Jaime, I feel like this was a fitting end. He was a morally grey character and may have outgrown Cersei in a lot of ways, but it was well established that he ALWAYS loved her. His last line that nothing matters except for them is the encapsulation of their relationship. I see that this is an unpopular opinion, but I loved their romantic ending. We don't always get the perfect revenge or payoff. Bad people are still human. And Cersei's death wasn't the point of the series.

(ETA: I would also think those who wanted to see Cersei suffer would have found that vengeance in seeing how utterly terrified she was for the first time in the whole series. Any other death, especially by murder, would likely have not had that payoff. You see her fully realize fear and the life she could have had in her final moments.)

I had basically written off the show last week, but ignoring the absolutely unearned heel turn for Dany (and the death of Varys who is more brilliant than he's been written recently and whom I've always loved), I'm back on board for the finale. I still think the writing sucks and D&D have made a travesty of the whole thing, but the acting has been top notch this season, and the cinematography this episode was stunning. The cuts between the Hound and Arya and the camera panning down those narrow alleyways as Arya ran were unreal. Tyrion/Jaime had a heartbreaking goodbye. I am actually interested to see what the hell they're doing to wrap this up next week.

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Arya has a new list.

After that talk with Sandor?  I think her list has been torn to shreds.

[Solace247]

1 hour ago, MichaelaRae said:

I agree that Dany hasn't had much of a support system - and most of what she had is dead - but Jon didn't betray her. She asked him to swear not tell his family about his origins. He said he couldn't swear that. He was upfront about that. I like both Dany and Jon (despite this episode trying its best to massacre both of them) but Jon's actions are not responsible for Dany's actions and he definitely didn't betray her since he told her all along - while continuing to swear his allegiance to her - that he couldn't keep a secret from his family.

If the show had Jon acknowledge that his honour often causes other’s lives, I could stomach his shit this late in the game. However, he’s that annoying, slumped-shouldered, ‘mine is the weight of the world’ tool that conveniently avoids coming face to face with the repercussions of his “honour” (at least in a self-aware way).

Just to be clear, I’m not laying the destruction of KL at his feet.

[Chris24601]

6 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

What is a Shadow King?

Its an element of Jungian psychology that manifests itself often in fiction because Jungian archetypes are ideal fodder for creating interpersonal conflicts.

To really understand it, you have to start from the ideal archetype of this kind... the King (or True King to make it easier to distinguish). Other really common archetypes are the Lover (best represented in the show by Sansa), the Magician (best represented by Bran) and the Warrior (Arya... notice the trend?) and those other three are also wrapped up how the True King becomes actualized in basically the ways Sansa, Bran and Arya have interacted with Jon... which is why it was so easy to predict he'd end up the king while Dany would fail for want of those interactions.

Anyway, each of the Archetypes is based on a balance... The King provides order and stability to those under him and encourages their growth (the terms Ordered and Generative are often used as shorthand).

And when that archetype falls out of balance it is said to become a Shadow Archetype... a Shadow King in this case.  Generally each archtype can swing out of balance in two directions based on a particular weakness the archetype is vulnerable to.

In the King's case, that weakness is their self-confidence, their belief in themselves. The Shadow King is insecure in their power and so veers in one of two directions; the Impotent King surrenders that power to others (Jon) and the Tyrant masks that insecurity with grand displays of power and titles to make sure everyone knows they're in charge (Dany).

Generally speaking, when employing these archetypes and their shadows in fiction the story will present a protagonist who falls short of the balance in one way or the other (but typically the more passive option of the two for any archetype) and then set them up with an antagonist who is the OPPOSITE type to cause them to grow into the properly balanced archetype in the course of the story.

I've been predicting Dany going Tyrant for a while now specifically because;

A) Jon was the more passive of the imperfect king types.

B) the True King is typically realized by interactions with The Lover (provides the initial motivation and passion to act. Jon was ready to run away until Sansa turned up and convinced him to fight for the North), The Magician (who provides key, often hidden, knowledge to help the King fully know himself... Jon's true heritage in this case) and the Warrior (who reminds the king of his duty to his people and, often, to his family... Arya). Dany lacked interactions with similar figures.

C) This show has further always run on reverses. Jon starting on the outs with the Starks and surrendering his power means by the end he'll have come around to appreciating the Starks and reclaiming his power. Likewise, Happy Jon and Dany (and Dany feeling all superior basking in the awe and a bit of terror she instilled) at the start meant it was 100% going to be the two as enemies by the end and Dany recognized as queen at the start means she'd be overthrown by the end.

That's a brief overview, but hopefully it helped.

[voiceover]

Rewatch:

When Peter Dinklage burst into tears, so did I.

That's how you write a farewell scene.

[ulkis]

I hated that, and yet I am inclined not to really condemn the producers for it. They bit off more than they could chew with A Song of Ice and Fire.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Conan Troutman said:

Okay I did not expect Dany to goll full on bonkers like that. What was even the point? The city has fallen, what did she want to accomplish? I could've taken five minutes less carnage for an explanation on what the hell her motivation was. Or is she just completely bananas now? 

I really liked the Arya/Hound parts (no surprise). Arya walking away from Cersei so she could be the angel of life was a nice almost-ending to her journey. Of course, this being Game of Thrones, everybody died anyways, so it was a gesture I guess?

Jaime offing Euron felt natural, the fight a bit less so - Euron should've kicked Jaime's ass easily. But I'll take it. Jaime and Cersei dying together like that wasn't how I pictured it, but I liked it. Felt like an ending that made sense for Jaime, although a bit rushed (that's more on last week's episode though). 

To me that whole Arya thing made no sense whatsoever and was absolutely ridiculous.  Arya has devoted years of her life to vengeance, and suddenly she is talked out of it by sandor?  That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and it's absolutely nonsensical.  

It will be even more ridiculous if Arya kills someone else out of vengence after she let cersei go, because...the hound said so????

It was a nice sentiment, but it should have NEVER worked on someone like Arya.  She might as well have just become lady gendry or whatever at this point because she is no longer the Arya they have developed this entire series.

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I didn’t see Dany as going mad.  If you saw basically two of your children murdered in front of you, would you be all, “okay, it’s all good?”

But I ask again, how would you have changed the episode?

But how is that not "going mad?". Madness can be precipitated by an event or aggravated by an event.

She isn't acting rationally or logically, so to me it seems like that would only leave her acting "mad" to some degree.

It didn't make sense for her to burn people alive who a) actually run commerce in the city and help make it a thriving and bustling metropolis and b) who hate cersei just as much as you do.

She said the people of westeros hate her.  But she has no real knowledge of how the people of KL felt about her other than they have been given propaganda by cersei about her.  They hate cersei so their minds should have been relatively easy to change.  

Saying Dany is mad, for me, doesn't mean I wanted her to act any differently.  Because part of this story was clearly that she was going to go mad.  

But it seems weird not to call it madness given her behavior.

[Bryce Lynch]

The same woman who chained up her dragons in a dungeon after one of them, supposedly killed one child, accidentally,  hunts down innocent children to burn, after she conquers Kings Landing.  Yeah, that makes sense.

[MJ Frog]

2 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

As hateful as she has been, why did I feel sorry for her when she was saying she wanted her baby to live. As for Jaime, he is my favorite character so I was disappointed that he still is in love with Cersei but darn it if they didn't sell me with those scenes.

Which, in my opinion, is what made it a far more interesting ending than just: Cersei gets stabbed a lot, the end. And this is coming from someone who was really counting on Jaime doing the honors, putting her down like a rabid animal, killing the one he loved so no one else could. That would have been fine, but actually less moving. As much as I loathed Cersei, seeing her let her guard down completely was fascinating, and much more in keeping with this show's attempts to humanize everybody. Except the Mountain, of course.

[SueB]

For those of you wondering .. why YES, I DID drink all 16 oz of wine in that glass.  I earned it.

Also #GameOfJones (i.e. @Lesdoggg on twitter) is cathartic.  Follow her for a great play by play.

[spaceghostess]

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

Motherfucker...

 

. . .Auntfucker?

[Andromeda]

USA Today just LOVED this episode.

Just kidding. 

Quote

When Daenerys Targaryen lived up to her terrible family's reputation and burned King's Landing to the ground, she incinerated the last hope for "Thrones" along with it. 

[RealReality]

24 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Arya has a new list.

Good for her, she can have her list and some random character can pep talk her right out of it.

Edited May 13, 2019 by RealReality

[SueB]

2 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

. . .Auntfucker?

MotherOfDragonsF*cker First of His Name, AuntieDoer, ResurrectedNightWatchman, and Not!ABastard Jon Freakin' Snow aka Aegon Targaryon.

Edited May 13, 2019 by SueB

[Dobian]

So Kings Landing is a burning wreck, and the only ones left standing are Arya and a white stallion.  Eeeeeokay.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, mxc90 said:

Golden Company!? Money well spent Cersei!

Or Is Tyrion responsible for the remaining Lannister debts?

I don't know why the Iron Bank loaned Cersei any of that money. Things have only gotten crazier and less stable since Tywin died. I'm sure Varys was feeding them info on how Daenerys had united with the northern armies. It wouldn't have been that hard to get word to Essos to tell the Golden Company that they were not to go with Euron.

I'm always surprised that Jamie didn't use his golden hand like a melee weapon. It's heavy as shit.

Daenerys' turn wasn't entirely out of character. For 8 seasons we've seen that Daenerys has wanted her birthright back, but at no point has she ever expressed a cultural connection with Westeros. In the earlier part of the series, we'd hear the Stark kids, Joffrey, Tommen, and other younger characters references prominent people in the history of Westeros. But I don't believe Dany ever has. She's mentioned Targaryens, but not mention wanting to see the Wall or being awed by it. She's never wanted to see the Eyrie or the Citadel. She's wanted the throne because of revenge and entitlement. She doesn't really connect with the land or its people. Furthermore, she's demonstrated that she doesn't know shit about governance or seem to have much interest in it. So yeah, I can see why she'd burn down all of Kings Landing rather than have to negotiate hundreds of years of relationships that she doesn't know anything about.

[ulkis]

Almost exactly ten years ago I had this same feeling about Battlestar Galactica's finale when Kara

disappeared right behind Lee.

 That same, alrighty then, guess I'll just delete this episode from the DVR now. The up side is I was later able to go back and re watch the well written parts of the show.

[Dobian]

I guess Dany didn't get the memo that she only needed to torch the Red Keep and would have taken over a perfectly intact city with a huge tax paying population.  Now she gets to rule over....rubble.

[Shimmergloom]

2 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Well of course ... the woman who freed slaves would naturally suddenly and with no reason kill everyone in sight.

Season 1, she had Drogo marching on Westoros.  She was perfectly willing for the Dothraki to rape and kill and pillage everything in sight to get her the throne all the way back then. 

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Good for her, she can have her list and some random character can pep talk her right out of it.

Some "random?"  That was the Hound, probably in my top five characters.  He knows what living only for revenge is, he loved Arya, and he didn't want that for her.  She respects very few people, but she respects him, and knows he knows what he's talking about.

Aside from that, her "list" has been completed now, not all by her, but it's done.

Could she rise up for one last one, maybe Dany?  Maybe, but to me she looked like the old Arya, a kid, kind, scared, as if she found her true self again.

I'm hoping that means she looks for more in life now than just revenge.

[Solace247]

1 minute ago, ulkis said:

Almost exactly ten years ago I had this same feeling about Battlestar Galactica's finale when Kara

  Reveal spoiler

disappeared right behind Lee.

 That same, alrighty then, guess I'll just delete this episode from the DVR now. The up side is I was later able to go back and re watch the well written parts of the show.

That show taught me to no longer off buy season box sets until the end is in the bag. I’m pretty sure I still have season “2.5” kicking around somewhere. I totally am with you on both shows. When you think about rewatching them because you’ve recently thought of some neat aspect, but then you re-center and remember it’s not worth it. Welcome GOT.

[operakatz]

2 hours ago, seawind said:

I really hate that Varys died for nothing. NOTHING. (Unless one of his letters makes something happen next episode, I suppose.)

From last season:

"Swear this to me, Varys,” Dany asked in response. “If you ever think I’m failing the people, you won’t conspire behind my back. You’ll look me in the eye as you have done today and you’ll tell me how I’m failing them.”

“I swear it, my queen,” Varys promised.

“And I swear this,” Daenerys promised in turn. "If you ever betray me, I’ll burn you alive.”

[ShellsandCheese]

I try not to overthink this show too much but one thing is bothering me. Drogon put on a masterclass performance and thus illustrated a huge problem with the show; dragons are only as effective as the plot demands. Last week, Rhaegal was unceremoniously shot down and this week Drogon manages to take out the entire Iron Fleet, all of the scorpions, the gates to King’s Landing, and he destroyed most of the city. 

Yet two weeks ago, we had two dragons who could hardly make a dent against the AOTD. It makes no sense. None. 

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don’t think Dany was mad either.  I agree with the poster who said it’s insulting to call her mad.

Dany was hurt, angry, fucking pissed off.  She saw her child, her dragon killed, her most trusted confidant, friend, brutally murdered in front of her. 

Who would be all love and light after all that shit.

Remember the last word of episode 4, Dracarus indeed.

There is a vast difference, IMO, between "love and light" and burning innocent children alive.  

And you shouldn't be in charge of a little league team, much less seven kingdoms if you can't move past the losses you've sustained on your side and not take it out on townspeople who literally had nothing to do with the wrongs visited on you.

Also, Dany may see the dragons as her "children" but she appears to have no problem putting her children in war, knowing full well that they are vulnerable and mortal.  So she shouldn't be so shell shocked.

I might have been able to buy into this had Dany just burned the soliders alive...I guess they are all part of a fighting force and wear the same uniform as the people who caused you such pain...but kids?  Townspeople?  Tradesmen?  No.

None of that makes any sense and it's pretty evil...so I'd call it going mad.  You don't get a pass to kill a town full of people because a guy on a boat who was from a totally different region killed your kid.  

To me, this is like burning down a Starbucks because the nephew of a barista stole your car.

Edited May 13, 2019 by RealReality

[ulkis]

On the up side, I could see the prospect of swooping in to "fix" the show inspiring GRRM to start writing again.

[VCRTracking]

So a half hour later and I'm still

[Giselle]

11 minutes ago, Dobian said:

So Kings Landing is a burning wreck, and the only ones left standing are Arya and a white stallion.  Eeeeeokay.

Death riding a pale horse.

[WaltersHair]

To be honest, Daeny did exactly what I thought she'd do-kill King's Landing. I didn't think she'd slaughter so many people and then do a shake and bake for good measure, but the signs were there in retrospect.

I kept think of pompeii throughout this episode.

Jon and Daeny can never rule now, of course. It wouldn't surprise me if it was Arya and Gendry. Sansa is going to be so pissed

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by WaltersHair

[Dobian]

I give props to Jamie for being able to walk all the way from the beach to the Red Keep after having had a foot-and-a-half long sword buried in his side to the hilt.  No props to the writers, just Jamie for this phenomenal physical feat.

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I try not to overthink this show too much but one thing is bothering me. Drogon put on a masterclass performance and thus illustrated a huge problem with the show; dragons are only as effective as the plot demands. Last week, Rhaegal was unceremoniously shot down and this week Drogon manages to take out the entire Iron Fleet, all of the scorpions, the gates to King’s Landing, and he destroyed most of the city. 

Yet two weeks ago, we had two dragons who could hardly make a dent against the AOTD. It makes no sense. None. 

Rhaegal was badly wounded, and could barely fly, let alone maneuver.  I couldn't tell, did Dany sweep in from behind?  Or did she hide Drogon in the clouds until the last second. 

She was certainly more prepared this time, and Drogon was healthy.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Umbelina

[whoknowswho]

Just now, Giselle said:

Death riding a pale horse.

The craziest thing, I immediately and for no reason when the stallion showed up, I thought she was Drogo, she was dead, and finally riding to the Nightlands.  Haven't seen the commercial for next week but I assume Arya's alive and I was maybe drunk?

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, whoknowswho said:

The craziest thing, I immediately and for no reason when the stallion showed up, I thought she was Drogo, she was dead, and finally riding to the Nightlands.  Haven't seen the commercial for next week but I assume Arya's alive and I was maybe drunk?

They did show white horses earlier, belonging to the Dothraki, so probably one of them died, and Arya found it.

That said, Arya has skillz.  She learned them when she tried to become No One, so I can't believe she could survive chaos and being hurt.  She did when the waif was after her...

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm particularly pissed on this point myself.  In one fell swoop the show basically told us all that growth and trying to be better and figure out who he was beyond part of the collective Lannisters never mattered a lick.  We never got a single clue about his motivations.  Just that he died exactly where he started.  

After the absolute horror show that Cersei has been, I shouldn't be coming out of this episode feeling like she was the lesser of the two evils in the queen sweepstakes.  But here we are.

Now now, that's not true. He started out being only partially p**sy whipped by his sister, then he ended completely p**ssy whipped by her. 

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Timetoread said:

They ALL are until they are in power.  That is the point of this tale, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I think this makes sense. 

Though I think someone that doesn't want the power may be a decent ruler.

[MJ Frog]

3 hours ago, Paws said:

The scene between Jamie and Tyrion was PERFECT.

Damn, that scene killed me like no other in this whole series. I may have cried like a baby, but that would have been uncool. So, clearly I did not do that.

[Couver]

Quote

I try not to overthink this show too much but one thing is bothering me. Drogon put on a masterclass performance and thus illustrated a huge problem with the show; dragons are only as effective as the plot demands. Last week, Rhaegal was unceremoniously shot down and this week Drogon manages to take out the entire Iron Fleet, all of the scorpions, the gates to King’s Landing, and he destroyed most of the city. 

Yet two weeks ago, we had two dragons who could hardly make a dent against the AOTD. It makes no sense. None. 

Drogon is her most battle tested dragon. We've seen before that he knows the rhythm of battles. He's dodged projectiles before including from the NK. Both during the Wight Hunt and the battle at Winterfell.

Locking Viserion and Rhaegal up was a mistake on Dany's part. It stunted them physically and left them vulnerable during battles. They never got to learn that humans = danger like Drogon did in the fighting pits. Whenever they were deployed Dany had a very strong advantage and their big brother was doing the heavy lifting first.

I mean their deaths were entirely plot based but I'll give the show runners the above. I think they set some of that up well.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Couver

[Bizabra]

I loved this episode so much! Danny has had tyrannical moments in the past, but been held in check by those around her. I'm not surprised. This was never going to to a "happily ever after" ending. I think it's great!

[ulkis]

13 minutes ago, Solace247 said:

That show taught me to no longer off buy season box sets until the end is in the bag. I’m pretty sure I still have season “2.5” kicking around somewhere. I totally am with you on both shows. When you think about rewatching them because you’ve recently thought of some neat aspect, but then you re-center and remember it’s not worth it. Welcome GOT.

I said i was later to re-watch some of the episodes. But yeah, never prematurely buy boxed sets, heh.

[VCRTracking]

Giving us so many hope spots like the bell finally ringing was CRUEL Weiss & Benioff.

[Brn2bwild]

LOL, who can forget this from Emilia Clarke, signaling where her character was going to go:

Edited May 13, 2019 by Brn2bwild

[VCRTracking]

Poor Tyrion. You tried man. You really tried so hard to stop it.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Kanner said:

Jon understands executing traitors and he knew firsthand that Varys was one. However, he most definitely gave her an unsettled look after Varys’ execution. 

And unlike the Unsullied who followed their Queen, Jon tried to stop his men from engaging. 

So I do think he is not onboard as he used to be. And if Dany really threatened his family that would definitely be it.

I think most of his actions toward Dany have been because of guilt more than anything else. Not that that is a good reason to do anything. He does/did love her but to me he bent the knee because he got everything he wanted and she got nothing plus she lost a child. He feels guilty about his claim so he is holding fast to his backing of her. No more. 

But with these writers, who knows. 

I'm also a little sore with dany's perferred method of execution.

We get it, you got dragons, they spit hot fire.

But there is no reason not to pick a more humane method of execution for someone who had vaunted her humanity.  You could behead someone and it's relatively quick and painless (relatively).  Why always go the route that is guaranteed to cause as much pain as possible?  Especially for a man who DID tell you that he felt you were making a mistake.  Or for men who made their choice and chose a different queen?  Yeah maybe you felt you had to kill them but why do it in the meanest way possible when their biggest sin was standing by their conscience?

[HeySandyStrange]

54 minutes ago, jade.black said:

And for show Jaime, I feel like this was a fitting end. He was a morally grey character and may have outgrown Cersei in a lot of ways, but it was well established that he ALWAYS loved her. His last line that nothing matters except for them is the encapsulation of their relationship.

I could've accepted this ending better, as distasteful as it was to me, if Jaime hadn't dragged Brienne and her feelings into the clusterfuck that is his relationship with his sister. It just seems so pointless to deal another blow to Brienne when it was all fo naught, since Jaime was always going to run back yo Cersei. 

[VCRTracking]

Y'know I admit to thinking all those times "Well, once she reaches Westeros and gets the Iron Throne she'll be satisfied and chill!

[Minneapple]

For anyone upset by Jaime and Cersei's Grand Romantic Tragic Death scene...have you watched the show? D&D have always loved Jaime/Cersei and think of them as a grand romantic tragedy rather than the toxic pair they are. Also they see Cersei mostly as a mother who does what's best for her kids. Even in her final moments, Cersei was going on about her damn fetus. Not expressing regret for the innocent people she's killed, but oh poor Cersei, she's pregnant, how sad that she'll die. 

I was hoping Jaime and Euron would kill each other. I'm annoyed to no end by Jaime. Whatever, he's dead.

Arya on the white horse was cheesy, but that was some beautiful cinematography. I also very much enjoyed the Cleganebowl fight intercut with Arya trying to escape King's Landing. Maisie Williams did a bang-up job in her scenes; they must have been a real physical challenge for her.

Very cool visual in Varys' execution when Drogon first made his appearance looming behind Dany. Jon looked perturbed; perhaps he has considered that maybe Dany is going to dracarys his sister next? 

I just don't understand why Dany went ballistic after the bells had rung. I also don't understand why she was so sad that Missandei died when she didn't take two seconds of her time to talk to Missandei this season. Poor Missandei. Ignored then refrigerated.

[MJ Frog]

I have to disagree with those who felt Jaime's character arc was trashed by having him go back to Cersei. It isn't as though he suddenly reverted to the man we saw in the beginning of the series -- he was still the better, nobler, version of himself we have watched him become. But he was that man while still loving Cersei. He may have come to see her more clearly, but he was never NOT going to love her and he was honest enough with himself to realize that. He didn't go there to help her win, but because he knew this was very likely the end, and he wanted to be there with her.

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

For anyone upset by Jaime and Cersei's Grand Romantic Tragic Death scene...have you watched the show? D&D have always loved Jaime/Cersei and think of them as a grand romantic tragedy rather than the toxic pair they are.

It seemed after season 6 they were starting to go back to Brienne and Jaime a bit. I wasn't expecting it end well, but like, damn, Cersei never even finds out about his relationship with brienne? I don't mean romantically but basically like . . . all of it. Even if they hadn't slept together, there were still a ton of moments, and most of them more meaningful than them sleeping together, like him knighting her.

The point of the story doesn't seem to me "some people don't want to be redeemed", but "some people are really stupid." And one of those people is Jaime.

[RealReality]

5 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

For anyone upset by Jaime and Cersei's Grand Romantic Tragic Death scene...have you watched the show? D&D have always loved Jaime/Cersei and think of them as a grand romantic tragedy rather than the toxic pair they are. Also they see Cersei mostly as a mother who does what's best for her kids. Even in her final moments, Cersei was going on about her damn fetus. Not expressing regret for the innocent people she's killed, but oh poor Cersei, she's pregnant, how sad that she'll die. 

I was hoping Jaime and Euron would kill each other. I'm annoyed to no end by Jaime. Whatever, he's dead.

Arya on the white horse was cheesy, but that was some beautiful cinematography. I also very much enjoyed the Cleganebowl fight intercut with Arya trying to escape King's Landing. Maisie Williams did a bang-up job in her scenes; they must have been a real physical challenge for her.

Very cool visual in Varys' execution when Drogon first made his appearance looming behind Dany. Jon looked perturbed; perhaps he has considered that maybe Dany is going to dracarys his sister next? 

I just don't understand why Dany went ballistic after the bells had rung. I also don't understand why she was so sad that Missandei died when she didn't take two seconds of her time to talk to Missandei this season. Poor Missandei. Ignored then refrigerated.

Maybe Dany never had any intention of ever letting that city survive once she had decided that the entire city was her enemy.  

If Dany is doing this out if rage grief over seeing two of her dragon kids die it seems odd that she kept taking them into battles and making it clear she would use them as weapons when when it was made abundantly clear that they were mortal.

One of her dumbest moves was to let cersei see she only had two dragons.  

If your dragons mean so much to you that losing them would make you roast innocent people alive ..maybe keep them at home, or stop bringing all of them to every fight.