S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Oh gawd!! Remember this little talk:

I bet Tormund is the Pod beyond the wall.  

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree that they would have sent scouts.  That is why I thought it was lazy, bad writing.  But, Cersei winning one more round with a surprise tactic made sense to me.    It should have been something more clever and unexpected though. 

We've already seen the Giant Crossbow, so Dany's team should have been expecting those.  
We have also already seen Euron surprise Dany's fleet.    

The twist should have made Cersei seem diabolically brilliant, not make Dany and her whole team look like idiots.   

I'm tellin' ya' , they shoulda' had her recruit Loki from Asgard, leading to GoT/MCU mashup!

[Wulfsige]

I enjoyed some of this episode, initially. Yes, it was fan-service-y, but I don't mind being serviced. It struck me that my partying style would be closest to the Wildlings, which was an pretty funny realization. Then it just got stupid and clumsy.    

BTW, Westerosi holdings aren't yet Dany's to distribute as she wishes. They're still under control of the reigning Cersei. Gendry may well roll up to the Baratheon ancestral seat and find the Mountain in residence, also having been gifted with it and using it as his summer home. 

One thing that's been bugging me for a long time is that Dany simultaneously sees her dragons as her children, and as assault weapons. If she's going to use her babies on the front lines of a war she has to realize that people are going to be killing them.  

Never gave much thought one way or the other to Missandei so her death only impacted me because it impacted Greyworm. But I wonder who'll have to memorize Dany's titles now. That job would drive me bonkers. Perhaps it'll fall to the hapless Tyrion. 

[sarthaz]

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Jaime is going to kill Cersei. 

This is how I've felt for a long time, but maybe it's too obvious because they keep telegraphing it. Then again, I always assumed Arya would get the Night King kill, and people thought that was a "big twist", so maybe this is another telegraphed "big twist."

[VCRTracking]

[JennyMominFL]

56 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Well said. If I could quote you a thousand times, I would. 

You know, Im not a Dany fan. I have real issues with her, but I agree that the Dany-Sansa issue seems to be mostly Sansa. Dany even stepped in, sucked it up and tried to to make peace

[Bryce Lynch]

19 minutes ago, Wulfsige said:

I enjoyed some of this episode, initially. Yes, it was fan-service-y, but I don't mind being serviced. It struck me that my partying style would be closest to the Wildlings, which was an pretty funny realization. Then it just got stupid and clumsy.    

BTW, Westerosi holdings aren't yet Dany's to distribute as she wishes. They're still under control of the reigning Cersei. Gendry may well roll up to the Baratheon ancestral seat and find the Mountain in residence, also having been gifted with it and using it as his summer home. 

One thing that's been bugging me for a long time is that Dany simultaneously sees her dragons as her children, and as assault weapons. If she's going to use her babies on the front lines of a war she has to realize that people are going to be killing them.  

Never gave much thought one way or the other to Missandei so her death only impacted me because it impacted Greyworm. But I wonder who'll have to memorize Dany's titles now. That job would drive me bonkers. Perhaps it'll fall to the hapless Tyrion. 

Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Queen of Meereen, the Unburnt, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons Dragon.   

Edited May 6, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[terrymct]

1 hour ago, mdwh said:

I know it wouldn't have been as tasteful, but I couldn't help thinking dragons would have done the job much quicker...

...And wasted less wood in a region that is notably short on trees.

[Yodabeesh]

16 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I wanted Missandei to grab Cersei and jump off with her.

I was thinking the SAME EXACT THING. 

[JennyMominFL]

10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Queen of Meereen, the Unburnt, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons Dragon.   

Thats a lot to put on a Starbucks cup

[Constantinople]

No wonder Cersei didn't order her archer to shoot. With the possible exception of the Night King, Tyrion has done more than anyone else in Westeros to reduce Dany's military effectiveness thanks to his terrible advice.
I'm still a little puzzled by that.  I'm guessing she didn't want to risk Qyburn. Not that she cares about Qyburn per se, only what he can do for her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Queen of Meereen, the Unburnt, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons Dragon.   

4 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Thats a lot to put on a Starbucks cup

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

No wonder Cersei didn't order her archer to shoot. With the possible exception of the Night King, Tyrion has done more than anyone else in Westeros to reduce Dany's military effectiveness thanks to his terrible advice.
I'm still a little puzzled by that.  I'm guessing she didn't want to risk Qyburn. Not that she cares about Qyburn per se, only what he can do for her.

Too bad for Dany, Cersei didn't trade Qyburn for Tyrion.  Cersei would have lost her best asset while Dany would have lost one of her greatest liabilities.

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, watchTV said:

Varys may have ulterior motives but it's hard to argue against him when he is trying to prevent the murder of innocents. That's why Cersei let all those people in. If Dany attacks then Cersei can blame her for the casualties. 

I also understand where Dany is coming from. You are trying to reason with unreasonable Cersei. She doesn't care for her people especially after her  walk of shame. So what do you do to a tyrant who uses her own people as pawns? Just let her be?

If her dragon weren't so vulnerable, she could drop hundreds of messages over KL and tell them Cersei's cruel intentions. Then they could revolt.

You send in Seal Team Six. Or in this case, an undercover squad of Jamie, Tyrion, Arya, Greyworm and the Hound (though he'll be distracted by the Mountain squeaky toy).

[LadyPenelope]

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

Jaime is going to kill Cersei. He just found out he had a hit put on him BY CERSEI.  He had a bolt shot right next to his head. He needs to kill Cersei to protect Brienne, so he threw a rock at her just like Arya did to Nymeria. Now he's going to join Arya and the Hound on the suicide squad.

I don’t think Jaime is heading off to enact bloody vengeance to protect Brienne. He didn’t seem to have much of a reaction to Bronn coming to kill them, until his face changed when Bronn said that obviously Cersei was going to die. Later he has the same reaction when Sansa talked about Cersei being executed. If they wanted him to be going off to kill Cersei, all they needed was to change Sansa’s last line to ‘Dany’s lost another dragon and Missandei and now Cersei might win!’ and have Jaime look grim and determined. But instead she said it as evidence that Cersei will definitely die, and Jaime looked stricken. I don’t think he’s off to fight for her, or to try to save her. Maybe he will kill her, if she is doing something terrible when he arrived. But I think he is simply doing exactly what Brienne said - going to die with her.

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Varys did, and he rejected the idea

And Tyrion was present when Varys explained why he turned against Robert Baratheon

What's worse is that in this episode Varys references part of that same scene when he tells Daenerys, "Your Grace. I promised you I would look you in the eye and speak directly if I ever thought you were making a mistake."

WTF show? Continuity much?

WOW WOW WOWOWOWOW...  Your post is excellent (everyone click on it to see it with the show quotes, if you missed it.) Now Varys is making no sense. Along with half the cast of characters. I'm getting bummed out about what was my favorite show. Why do my favorites almost always end so poorly? (Breaking Bad being a huge exception.)

[Nashville]

11 hours ago, millennium said:

Except Dany is deeply disadvantaged.  Her winning hand has always consisted of three dragons; now she has just one and as things stand she can't fly it anywhere near King's Landing without it being killed.   AFAIC, Cersei has taken the dragons off the table -- unless Dany is willing to sacrifice Drogon in a kamikaze blaze of glory.

So unrestrained or not, Dany is not quite the threat she used to be. 

Why not?  Dragons can fly at night, too.  A little 2:00AM guerrilla-dragon action - swooping down silently out of the night to rake dragonfire across the super-crossbow emplacements on the perimeter wall - could change things dramatically, especially if done in conjunction with a coordinated ground assault on KL.  And if Cersei was so short-sighted as to have caches of wildfire in the vicinity of the emplacements, so much the better.

11 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I'm convinced Jaime headed South on a suicide mission to kill Cersei, not to rejoin her. 

I thought of this myself, primarily in line with the notion of Jamie thinking he could give Cersei a cleaner death than she’d be likely to receive otherwise - and hell, I wanted to believe it - but there’s one big fat wrinkle in that notion; Jamie believes Cersei is pregnant with his child, and no way is he going to kill THAT.  

So I fully believe at some point when it appears Cersei is facing CERTAIN DEATH (DUM DUM DUMMMM!!!), Jamie will suddenly step in out of nowhere and kill Cersei’s aggressor - maybe Kingslayer will add Queenslayer to his resume, and take out Daenerys...? 

After which Cersei will thank Jamie gratefully - then kill him.

10 hours ago, lvbalgurl said:

I wanted a hug between Ghost and Jon so badly.  I remain completely puzzled by Jon's lack of affection toward Ghost.  It was all very strange and not explainable. 

Well to be fair, Ghost is not a dog.  Ghost is a full-grown dire wolf - a wild predator with a certain degree of attachment to a human or two.  So expecting Ghost to roll over on his back and invite Jon to give him belly rubs might be somewhat out of character.  😆

9 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

The Night King was a problem Dany was going to have to deal with eventually no matter what.  Either she face the NK in the North or the dead were going to overrun the North and head south.  It was in Dany’s best interest to fight with the Northerners against the Night King.

Another, more strategically significant point: in inverse relation to any army of humans, the NK’s army would only grow larger the farther it marched - so countering the AotD as early as possible gave the best odds of success.  If Daenerys had focused her efforts on Cersei and KL first, then afterwards she would be faced with a dead-Northerners-swollen AotD - which at that point might well-nigh be unconquerable.

7 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Have you considered the best ruler might be someone who doesn't want to rule? - Varys

Hardly original, that:

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. 
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. 
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Have you seen the Iron Islands. No one wants that place. Lol

Barren rocks and seagull shit?  What’s not to love?  😄

1 hour ago, watchTV said:

Varys may have ulterior motives but it's hard to argue against him when he is trying to prevent the murder of innocents. That's why Cersei let all those people in. If Dany attacks then Cersei can blame her for the casualties. 

Only if Daenerys torched the entirety of KL’s population except for Cersei - because otherwise, how is a pile of ashes going to blame anybody for shit?

[VCRTracking]

[Cheezwiz]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. 
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. 
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

I love this sooo much. A variation of the Dunning-Kreuger effect in effect! Really must get around to reading all of the Hitch Hiker books.

[Nashville]

21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

...and can't you just hear the barista calling, “Davey?  Davey...?” 😉

[enoughcats]

10 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

an undercover squad of Jamie, Tyrion, Arya, Greyworm and the Hound

Which of these five could pass as commoners.  Two lived there most of their lives (and one is one of the few surviving dwarves).  Arya is short, Greyworm is not packing and carries himself Marine-like all the time, and the Hound is disfigured, besides being really big for Westeros .

Or was this inspired by NCIS Los Angeles and related NCISes, when we are supposed to believe that Hetty could go undercover and just blend in with the masses?

[Helena Dax]

13 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I'd say there's a huge difference between doing bad things to others and having bad things done to you. I'm not sure Sansa's line was sexist, but it certainly didn't sound fine to me.

[perkie1968]

Someone explain to me why Dani didn't have the dragon burn the heck out of those boats as soon as they shot the other dragon down?    I thought the same thing last week, why didn't she burn a bunch of the undead before they sent in the Dothraki.  I don't get it.  

[Sakura12]

6 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Someone explain to me why Dani didn't have the dragon burn the heck out of those boats as soon as they shot the other dragon down?    I thought the same thing last week, why didn't she burn a bunch of the undead before they sent in the Dothraki.  I don't get it.  

The first because Eurons plot armour said Cersei wins that battle, the second part was because the plan was Dany and Jon were supposed to wait for the Night King. Dany didn't care about that plan after she watched the Dothraki get slaughtered. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Sakura12

[Lemuria]

8 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Because that theory worked out so well with Robert Baratheon

Robert Baratheon wanted to rule.  He just didn't want to do the grunt work.  He was the Louis XIII of Westeros.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Which of these five could pass as commoners.  Two lived there most of their lives (and one is one of the few surviving dwarves).  Arya is short, Greyworm is not packing and carries himself Marine-like all the time, and the Hound is disfigured, besides being really big for Westeros .

Or was this inspired by NCIS Los Angeles and related NCISes, when we are supposed to believe that Hetty could go undercover and just blend in with the masses?

Davos could handle it.  Just bribe the Gold Cloaks 15 gold dragons a piece.  For 30 they would let him smuggle Drogon in.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Well to be fair, Ghost is not a dog.  Ghost is a full-grown dire wolf - a wild predator with a certain degree of attachment to a human or two.  So expecting Ghost to roll over on his back and invite Jon to give him belly rubs might be somewhat out of character.

That's true, but most fans know by now the show simply finds it too difficult to render the Direwolves, so the send-off felt cheap and lazy. There should have been some interaction between Jon and Ghost, given that the Ghost has been Jon's constant and loyal companion since Season 1 Episode 1. What Jon did was essentially give Ghost the brush-off. 

Quote

Someone explain to me why Dani didn't have the dragon burn the heck out of those boats as soon as they shot the other dragon down?

She just saw one of her "children" shot dead right next to her. You think she was thinking straight, or of anything other than getting the hell out of there with an entire arsenal of harpoons aimed at her and Drogon?

That said, I didn't understand what she was doing, aerodynamically. She appeared to be heading straight into them then veered off. I didn't get a good sense of how the whole thing went down. Rhaegal was initially shot full on in the chest. That shot had to come from directly in front of them. How would that have been possible if the harpoons are hidden off to the side behind a mountain? Are they heat seeking?

[tv-talk]

5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

She appeared to be heading straight into them then veered off. I didn't get a good sense of how the whole thing went down

I think the dragon veered off. There's an assumption that she basically has mind control over the dragons but that's not the case. Drogon shook her off and left her to die in an effort to save himself (from her cluelessness tbf). The scene last night she was clearly enraged and ready to either get Euron or die trying...I think it was the dragon that decided to veer off when it was obvious they were going to get shot to pieces.

Edited May 6, 2019 by tv-talk

[Andromeda]

31 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Which of these five could pass as commoners.  Two lived there most of their lives (and one is one of the few surviving dwarves).  Arya is short, Greyworm is not packing and carries himself Marine-like all the time, and the Hound is disfigured, besides being really big for Westeros .

Or was this inspired by NCIS Los Angeles and related NCISes, when we are supposed to believe that Hetty could go undercover and just blend in with the masses?

I thought it was obvious. It was inspired by this.

Speaking of RL, using civilians as human shields as Cersei is doing is a Saddam Hussein move.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Andromeda

[VCRTracking]

27 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

I'd say there's a huge difference between doing bad things to others and having bad things done to you. I'm not sure Sansa's line was sexist, but it certainly didn't sound fine to me.

I mean, according to some people Sansa's done some bad stuff, and bad stuff has happened to both Theon and Jaime.

[HunterHunted]

20 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Which of these five could pass as commoners.  Two lived there most of their lives (and one is one of the few surviving dwarves).  Arya is short, Greyworm is not packing and carries himself Marine-like all the time, and the Hound is disfigured, besides being really big for Westeros .

Or was this inspired by NCIS Los Angeles and related NCISes, when we are supposed to believe that Hetty could go undercover and just blend in with the masses?

Actually they need A Girl (Arya) because she is more skilled at murder and deception than anyone else still on the board, Gendry who grew up there and was only a target when people knew where he was supposed to be, Davos who also grew up there and was a smuggler, and a dozen randoms who would listen to the 3 named individuals. Maybe they can drag weasel Lord Glover and his men from his keep.

Also what does Arya's height have to do with anything? If you're saying that it makes her easier to identify, you need to remember that this bitch can play the game of faces. No one is spotting her unless she wants them to. 

[blackwing]

18 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Someone explain to me why Dani didn't have the dragon burn the heck out of those boats as soon as they shot the other dragon down?    I thought the same thing last week, why didn't she burn a bunch of the undead before they sent in the Dothraki.  I don't get it.  

Yes, I don't get it either.  I don't understand why she swooped right directly in front of Euron's ship and then turned away.  I thought she was preparing to intone "Dracarys" but she didn't.  Then I don't understand why she didn't fly behind the ships and just roast them all.  Those arrow cannon things were cumbersome, at the front of the ships, and probably couldn't be easily turned all the way facing backwards. 

Other things I didn't get:

Why Missandei didn't just take a run at Cersei.  The Mountain was some paces behind them.  She could have easily shoved Cersei off the platform.

Why Jon didn't take Ghost with him, or why Ghost would not have automatically run to him.  Wasn't it established in earlier seasons how bonded each direwolf was with their respective Stark?

[Lady Iris]

40 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Why not?  Dragons can fly at night, too.  A little 2:00AM guerrilla-dragon action - swooping down silently out of the night to rake dragonfire across the super-crossbow emplacements on the perimeter wall - could change things dramatically, especially if done in conjunction with a coordinated ground assault on KL.  And if Cersei was so short-sighted as to have caches of wildfire in the vicinity of the emplacements, so much the better.

I applaud this plan but unfortunately for us its riddled with common sense which seems to be in short supply these days in Westeros.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Lady Iris

[Uncle JUICE]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

If ya' wanna stoke that anger, watch the Inside the episode piece and get the writer's explanation for the success of Euron's ambush of the dragons. No, I'm not going to spoil it, and no peeking earlier in this thread. Go get it from the horse's ass mouth. Or something. I dare ya'.....

I refuse, with all respect to you sir. I can only imagine its insanely dumb, I'll try to find it in this thread eventually. These guys landed on my fuck these two list. The amount of time between seasons really makes stuff like this inexcusable. You could have worked it over and over and over and really perfected it. This is...not that. 

Again, appreciate the ending breaking bad had. Because ending a show is hard.  

[Constantinople]

Is anyone else concerned that the mother of Sam's child is her own aunt, and probably her own great aunt and great great aunt?

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Some reasons from this episode for why I think Jon wouldn't be a good King of the Seven Kingdoms

As the Warden of the North, the top general, he was too weak willed to tell Daenerys that the army needed more rest before marching on King's Landing. Loyal service means telling hard truths.

A good king should have some undesrtanding of what makes people tick, yet Daenerys has a better understanding of Sansa than Sansa's own "brother" does. Naivete isn't a good quality in a king either.

Jon says he doesn't want to be king. Contrary to what Varys said, a politically apathetic fishing buddy isn't the ideal candidate for the monarchy.

But it's not even clear that Jon is being honest with himself about not wanting to be king. He can't shut up about his parentage, he has these mournful looks whenever Dany's Queenship is mentioned, and he's done nothing to destroy the documentary evidence. A good king needs to be honest with himself.

Finally, the obvious thing to do would be to marry Dany and knock her up. Don't like it because she's your aunt? Too bad. Kings do all sorts of unpalatable things for the good of the realm.

Jon has always been a very weak man and he would make a terrible ruler.  Pretty much from the start of the series I have always thought that Jon was way overrated.

It does seem to me that the natural end of this series would be for Jon and Daenerys to marry and rule together as co-regents.  Seems obvious to me that this is where things are headed since really, the only other candidates are Gendry, Sansa or Arya.  Arya definitely wouldn't want it.  Sansa would be terrible.  I guess I'm rooting for Gendry.

[Andromeda]

1 minute ago, Constantinople said:

Is anyone else concerned that the mother of Sam's child is her own aunt, and probably her own great aunt and great great aunt?

It's really tough for me to even think about that family. It's a miracle the kid is even alive. I have flashbacks to the "Home" episode of X-Files. 

I'm inclined to think that DNA works differently for GOT humans than it does for us. Dany has a miracle ability anyway, so I can't say her DNA is corrupted (even if it would be.) Same for Jon, who was resurrected.

[enoughcats]

1 minute ago, Constantinople said:

Is anyone else concerned that the mother of Sam's child is her own aunt, and probably her own great aunt and great great aunt?

Someone dumped a huge family of 3 female cats on us.  The kittens were idiots and all looked alike.  We figured the father of those kittens was probably also the grandfather, and so on backwards.  One of the surviving male kittens we named "Idiot son of Number 2" because that was the only name he earned.  Every so often he came back to visit his Mother.  We could tell it was him as his tail pointed to 9pm always when seeing leaving, Most of the family moved on before we could tame them to have them neutered.  

Your post just reminded me of that ill-stared family. 

[enoughcats]

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Seems obvious to me that this is where things are headed since really,

Not really seriously, but Pod is the one practicing at being the Father of his Country.  He's really up for the job.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Is anyone else concerned that the mother of Sam's child is her own aunt, and probably her own great aunt and great great aunt?

Samwell's impeccable DNA will spawn a great hero who slays White Walkers and kills Thenns Thenn.   

[Constantinople]

Arya killed 2 men, served them up as a pie to their father, then killed their father.
Jon started beating a man to death with his fists, a prisoner in all but name, only to stop so that Sansa could later rip him apart alive with starving dogs
But Dany's the crazy one with no impulse control

IOKIYAS

[JennyMominFL]

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Arya killed 2 men, served them up as a pie to their father, then killed their father.
Jon started beating a man to death with his fists, a prisoner in all but name, only to stop so that Sansa could later rip him apart alive with starving dogs
But Dany's the crazy one with no impulse control

IOKIYAS

Those things are not OK either.

[voiceover]

Best sports fan Twitter response to this ep:

"Dany blew a 3-dragon lead."

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Arya killed 2 men, served them up as a pie to their father, then killed their father.
Jon started beating a man to death with his fists, a prisoner in all but name, only to stop so that Sansa could later rip him apart alive with starving dogs
But Dany's the crazy one with no impulse control

IOKIYAS

Don't forget Arya going off on Meryn Trant, when she was on the clock for another Faceless Men job.  For the record, I loved it. but it was not an example of good impulse control.  

[JennyMominFL]

You know, when I was in the Marines I was a cook.(yeah yeah, a cook. My original MOS was intel and lets just say that I got screwed because I was female and had a Top Sgt who wanted me "in a more appropriate job for a women") And Im aging myself here but i served during the First Gulf War.

Those men were totally gung ho to go.  My mess hall supported the air field. We would get called in to give those men a meal before they headed to the airfield across the street.They were called in on short notice and had little for knowledge that they were shipping off to a war zone. Many of those gung ho men were crying. Some were shaking. I can't write Sam off because he was cowering and crying when fighting the undead. No one knows how they will react in that situation. Even Marines get scared. Even marines cry.

If this was the last we have seen of Sam then he did a job well done in general.

Edited May 6, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[UNOSEZ]

8 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Arya killed 2 men, served them up as a pie to their father, then killed their father.
Jon started beating a man to death with his fists, a prisoner in all but name, only to stop so that Sansa could later rip him apart alive with starving dogs
But Dany's the crazy one with no impulse control

IOKIYAS

I don't think those are equivalent... Walder Frey betrayed robbed and the north.. Killed robbed and Cat... His wife and unborn child... Tons of bannerman and helped win the war for the lannisters... He also kidnapped edmure and held onto riverrun... The boltons aided in the betrayal of house stark and Ramsay killed rickon abused Sansa and maimed Theon.... We knew they did the crimes... Of the two tho what Arya  did was insane.. And she's not up for ruler of anything... 

Edited May 6, 2019 by UNOSEZ

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, UNOSEZ said:

I don't think those are equivalent... Walder Frey betrayed robbed and the north.. Killed robbed and Cat... His wife and unborn child... Tons of bannerman and helped win the war for the lannisters... He also kidnapped edmure and held onto riverrun... The boltons aided in the betrayal of house stark and Ramsay killed rickon abused Sansa and maimed Theon.... We knew they did the crimes... Of the two tho what Arya  did was insane.. 

I think the point is Dany takes revenge for 163 crucified children, after freeing hundreds of thousands of slaves and she is the Mad Queen, breaking the laws of Meereen.  

Arya kills Freys, Meryn Trant, Polliver, etc and she is a good guy getting justice.

I approve of what both of them did.  

If Dany killed the NK, there would be people here explaining why it was wrong and sign of madness.   

[Lemuria]

6 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

In fact, Jon ended up in the same way, exactly for the same reasons -he didn't understand how far their enemies could go.

But he does now, doesn't he?

[JennyMominFL]

6 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I don't think those are equivalent... Walder Frey betrayed robbed and the north.. Killed robbed and Cat... His wife and unborn child... Tons of bannerman and helped win the war for the lannisters... He also kidnapped edmure and held onto riverrun... The boltons aided in the betrayal of house stark and Ramsay killed rickon abused Sansa and maimed Theon.... We knew they did the crimes... Of the two tho what Arya  did was insane.. And she's not up for ruler of anything... 

There will never be a situation though, where I think its OK to feed someone to dogs. Even Ramsay. Execute him , fine. Its not about who HE was , its about who WE are(we the ones doing the killing)

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the point is Dany takes revenge for 163 crucified children, after freeing hundreds of thousands of slaves and she is the Mad Queen, breaking the laws of Meereen.  

Arya kills Freys, Meryn Trant, Polliver, etc and she is a good guy getting justice.

I approve of what both of them did.  

If Dany killed the NK, there would be people here explaining why it was wrong and sign of madness.   

Well, for the record as one who does not view Dany as a good guy, I dont view Arya as a good one either. They aren't evil, but they are also not "good".

[sistermagpie]

16 hours ago, Drogo said:

If that's what I promised him after he'd started helping me, yes- as the KiTN did with Daenerys.

And you would feel grateful for this? Because this was described as being grateful. I think if your neighbor only agreed to help you put out the fire if you promised to give him your house you wouldn't think he was such a great guy.

16 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

Did Dany demand Winterfell for herself? I didn’t hear that part. 

She's demanding the entire North for herself. Winterfell is in the North. The North wants to be its own country. The North is not demanding they rule over Dany.

16 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

I think it’s more like, you need to pay your taxes to pay for the services you’re receiving. 

And Dany set the price really high because their lives were at stake. She could extort a high price. But the North isn't *happy* about that. They seem perfectly happy to send soldiers to help her fight her war, which is a pretty even trade. Plus, Dany isn't presenting this as paying her for anything. She thinks they should see her as their natural queen and they just don't. 

15 hours ago, For Cereals said:

Any speculation about all the wheelchair talk?  My hubby thinks Bran was throwing something out there, but we don’t Zabruder this stuff so we have no idea except that Bran doesn’t say much so it must be important.

I think it was just a 3ER joke. Bran surfed around history and was like hey, that guy's got a nice chair.

14 hours ago, tv-talk said:

but what happens when Cersei Lannister comes knocking on their doors a few months later?

This seems to suggest they're supposed to be want Dany as queen to save them for Cersei and that's not the situation. They don't want any foreign queen, with or without dragons. They already didn't want Cersei as queen.

14 hours ago, tv-talk said:

with her brother married to the Queen, the North would be independent in everything but name.

But the name is everything. Without the name the North is still under their control and the next ruler won't be somebody's brother.

14 hours ago, Vella said:

Gilly was the one reading aloud. Sam would not have heard it otherwise.  She may not have been doing detective work and she certainly didn't understand what it all meant (neither did Sam), but then later he told Jon that he and Bran had worked it out. They didn't. Bran told him 99% of the story and based on what Gilly read, only then was Sam able to put 2+2 together.

I really don't see how Gilly's being left out of the "we worked it out" because as you said, Gilly didn't work anything out. It just seems silly for Sam to feel like he has to say that Gilly was reading aloud when he heard this information.

10 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Sansa doesn't want A Stark in power.  She wants Sansa Stark to be in power.  She has resented, undermined and resisted Jon, from the start, the same as she has done with Dany.

Sansa is not afraid of Dany being another Cersei.  Sansa IS an off brand Cersei/Littlefinger self centered manipulator.

I don't think Sansa's being shown as some great natural queen or anything--her feelings about Dany are obviously personal and a bit irrational. But she's shown a consistent base-level care for the people and her interests are aligned with hers. Also she doesn't at all seem to be angling to be Queen of the North or whatever. If she just wanted to rule there, as Tyrion said, she should let Jon go off with Dany and be KitT in name only or whatever.

9 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

If someone else had said this.. Maybe but tormund is Jon's guy he's been in battle after battle with Jon..

Exactly. This is another thing that reflects Dany's problems as a ruler. She's not one with these people, she's just always seen them as rightfully her subjects. She doesn't have the same kind of relationship with her people that Jon does, whether or not Jon would be an actual good king. She gets scenes of (unfortunately mostly brown) people raising her up over their heads and bowing to her. Jon has guys giving him noogies.