S08.E15: Finale Reunion

[discoprincessthe2]

1 minute ago, Soup333 said:

I find it very interesting that both Keith and Will have been called lazy throughout this season even though we know Keith has a job and is also a student and we know Will has a job. I've literally never heard anyone even hint of AJ's or Luke's laziness.

🤔Hmmmm...Interesting.

As much as despise Luke, I dunno how one could call him lazy though when his much-talked about speed dating business is his side hustle. (He already has a regular job.) 

[Stinamaia]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

Really? We saw her cleaning and tidying a fair amount. I never thought she looked dirty or unkempt.

i didn’t love the color of her dress last night but I thought her hair and makeup looked lovely. I didn’t mind the style of the dress - it was modest but not baggy. I liked the beading.  I didn’t notice last night but in prior episodes, her nails were nicely manicured. 

Kate seems to be attracted to earth tones.  I am too, but I learned that those colors don’t flatter very pale skins.  Deep brown is the best I can do.   I think she would do better with jewel tones even than pastels.  Those colors would enhance her skin and eyes.  Also a bit darker shade of blond blended with her present color would give more depth tho her hair.  She is a pretty woman, imo.  I think the women this season are all attractive even when I disagree with their fashion choices. 

[aphroditewitch]

19 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but what with everything I've seen & heard about Kate throughout the season, I feel she's probably more of a party girl rather than just a social drinker, & possibly a sloppy drunk. It doesn't trivialize or excuse Luke's treatment of Kate, but I do tend toward believing his 'she gets drunk & horny & comes onto him' story (which would put any guy in his situation in a very awkward position). I also think she came on pretty strong last night as if she'd done nothing to ever make him uncomfortable, & I don't think that's completely true, nor do I believe she was as ready for marriage as she so strongly claimed.

As I mentioned before I think the new boyfriend is a mistake. She has her own issues & needs to take some time to enjoy her promotion & get some distance from relationships for a while, but she is the eternal "hopeless romantic" 🙄.

Maybe, but then where are the receipts? I feel like if Kate is a party girl something would have leaked by now. Pictures or videos of her drunk, passed out, or hanging all over a guy. Numerous pictures have leaked of Luke that suggest he is lying about his sexuality. But it has been crickets when to comes to Kate. 

[gonecrackers]

1 minute ago, aphroditewitch said:

Maybe, but then where are the receipts? I feel like if Kate is a party girl something would have leaked by now. Pictures or videos of her drunk, passed out, or hanging all over a guy. Numerous pictures have leaked of Luke that suggest he is lying about his sexuality. But it has been crickets when to comes to Kate. 

Well, I don't need receipts for my opinion based on what I heard & saw.  I may be completely wrong. She was badly mistreated by Luke regardless.

One thing that did bug me was his Halloween after party bedding of her - whether it was sex or not - it confounds me why she'd still be hanging with the guy at all. I doubt she's still friendly with him though, or hopefully not.

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

That's what I thought.  I think Keith and Kristine's respective families probably told them it was better to live at home and save their money, than move out to live with 489 roommates just to feel "grown."  

And I still didn't like AJ slapping Luke on the ass.  You do that to the wrong guy, AJ and you might wind up seriously injured, or worse.  AJ just pulled that because he knew because there was a camera there, nothing would happen to him.   

Very true.  Why should AJ care about Luke's sexuality?  I wonder.

Why is Luke's sexuality such a constant source of discussion? Why does anyone care?

Being curious doesn't mean anything weird or negative. People are just curious by nature.

It reminds us me of that Denzel movie remember the Titans. There was a new recruit on the football team in that movie that seemed to exhibit multiple signs of a homosexual male. One of the team members just went up and asked him he was gay. The other guy asked why did it matter. It really didn't matter but the team member was just so curious he had to know. He never got his answer either. 

We don't need to know anything about these people or anyone's sexuality but it will never stop people from being curious about such things.

[endure]

I felt and said early on that Luke was on the show to promote himself and  his speed dating business.  Many of you caught on so early that he was gay!  I don't know why he thought he could pull it off.  Even his own mother indicated to Kate that the marriage would not work. He really is a piece of work and in desperate need of help IMHO.  Maybe he will show up next on Dr Phil.

[Auntie]

Well, if I ever need help throwing up in the future, I can just watch this finale again.....

For the record, I won't watch any future seasons of this show as it is all completely staged, and the so-called "experts" - who by the way are only batting 25% for the entirety of this show - are no experts and I certainly wouldn't seek out any of them for help in ANY matter, and certainly not for relationship advice.

AJ and Steph: still a train wreck. He is a first-rate jerk and she has just caved in and is putting up with his bullshit. I'm sure in the near future, we will find out she has left him so he can "eat alone" again and stop being an arrogant ass.

Keith and Kristine: BAD move on their part in buying a house IMHO. She probably wrote into the contract that Keith has to cook all meals and clean the house, and they can't have kids or a dog until he's 65 years old. 

Will and Jas: still gagging over this "match"

Luke and Kate: Yes, Luke is a Puke and a lukewarm one at that. He can't tell the truth, doesn't like being challenged about any comments, and should never have gotten past initial round of casting. Then there is Kate. So many people posting here are feeling sorry for her. I beg to differ, especially after seeing the finale. She lied the entire time on that show too. But nobody is calling her out for it. She is immature and showed her true, snarky attitude on the finale - constantly cutting Luke off (granted, he was always lying, but let him keep digging it deeper, Kate. She was rude and condescending the entire show. I'm not saying I like Luke, because I didn't, but Kate isn't the little innocent girl she portrayed herself to be.

[silverspoons]

4 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

"5 other people". I see you AJ 😉

Also notice the hashtags, Hoverhand and Imnotafan and his hover hand is over Luke. Some people think AJ is too outspoken, but I love that he is willing to call it like he sees it with Luke.

4 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

They might have purchased either a fixer upper or a foreclosure. People like Kristine who work in real estate are always able to find good deals for themselves on a property. 

Kristine already owned at least one home if not two. I had posted in another section, that a few days after decision day, Kristine had done a rental deal. I wondered if it was for her and Keith. I know nothing about Philly real estate and someone had shown she owned at least one property if not two, both were lower cost and maybe flip homes? If you look at her listings she has sold homes in Philly from 10k to 250k so there is a wide range. If you do not have kids going to school, I assume like most cities you do have a wider choice of homes to buy if you are not looking for a certain school district or family friendly housing.

If Keith is still planning on medical school, then I bet this home is some sort of investment or flip which would be great for them to make some money. I doubt it is a forever home, because the chance of getting in med school and residency in the same area they buy a home is next to none. 

I'm glad Kate is back to having her spark. I peeked at her SM and she travels so much and sings and plays the guitar, so many pieces of her we did not see on the show. While I am glad she is done with Luke. Moving on within a month of the show might be too fast. I think the show should have given her free therapy with a real expert. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by silverspoons

[Racj82]

39 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

🤔Hmmmm...Interesting.

As much as despise Luke, I dunno how one could call him lazy though when his much-talked about speed dating business is his side hustle. (He already has a regular job.) 

None of the guys are lazy here. But, Will and Keith are often low energy. I think that's what people mean when they call them lazy.

[DrewPaul2010]

30 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Why is Luke's sexuality such a constant source of discussion? Why does anyone care?

How could a person's sexual orientation not be an issue when you marry someone of the opposite sex?

[Haute Messe]

15 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I guess there is a lid for every pot. You know how AJ always says Stephanie is his sexy AF wife? To me Luke is ugly AF. Idk what Kate found so appealing.  I like beards so that was not it. His behavior made him even uglier.

And a seat for every ass.

Kevin Frasier is the best! I hope this will be a permanent gig for him, because he is miles above that vapid Samantha Harris.

Will has not been into Jasmine and I would bet that all her expectations as to his earning power, career aspirations and bill sharing emasculated him to the point that any attraction he may have ever felt totally evaporated. Too bad he couldn’t be honest with her about that – it might do her a favor to know so she can improve her approach in future relationships, as clearly she is adamant about how important these things are to her.  This is also something the “experts” could have pointed out to her. But Will talking about wanting to be friends and then maybe date is just confusing as hell.

[b2H]

1 hour ago, kanona29 said:

One interesting thing I learned is that she plays the guitar and sings! Not too bad either. 

When she left for the night apart before decision day, she brought her guitar case.  Otherwise, it was a very strange conveyance for her clothing.....  LOL!!!!

[b2H]

1 hour ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

[Kate] went into the show claiming she was striking out dating yet only a month after the show lo and behold a new 'handsome' boyfriend and they are hitting it off well.

This has happened on the Bachelor and Bachelorette too, where someone who failed miserably on the show found what they were looking for off-screen.  I, too, believe she needed some time before entering in to a new relationship, but the best therapy for her is finding someone who loves and respects her and isn't trying to mentally destroy her.  She may've succeeded here.

Quote

Why is Luke's sexuality such a constant source of discussion? Why does anyone care?

@Racj82

Why?  Because he's gone on a show at his own choice that relates to heterosexual relationships.  It doesn't matter on a football team.  It matters when another party with whom intimacy is expected is involved.

Edited April 10, 2019 by b2H

[Soup333]

24 minutes ago, lizajane said:

Will has not been into Jasmine and I would bet that all her expectations as to his earning power, career aspirations and bill sharing emasculated him to the point that any attraction he may have ever felt totally evaporated. Too bad he couldn’t be honest with her about that – it might do her a favor to know so she can improve her approach in future relationships, as clearly she is adamant about how important these things are to her.  This is also something the “experts” could have pointed out to her. But Will talking about wanting to be friends and then maybe date is just confusing as hell.

I honestly believe this is why he didn’t sleep with her. 

Jasmine seems to equate the willingness and ability to provide with masculinity. I feel like she wants a Taken in Hand relationship without the caveat of submission. 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I sensed a certain slovenliness about Kate that would turn off most guys.  

Wow, no. I thought she looked adorable at decision day and lovely at the reunion. If that’s slovenly I’m not sure who could rise to that standard!

Edited April 10, 2019 by MJS

[Racj82]

46 minutes ago, b2H said:

This has happened on the Bachelor and Bachelorette too, where someone who failed miserably on the show found what they were looking for off-screen.  I, too, believe she needed some time before entering in to a new relationship, but the best therapy for her is finding someone who loves and respects her and isn't trying to mentally destroy her.  She may've succeeded here.

@Racj82

Why?  Because he's gone on a show at his own choice that relates to heterosexual relationships.  It doesn't matter on a football team.  It matters when another party with whom intimacy is expected is involved.

In my original quote, I was addressing the question of why AJ cares about Luke's sexuality by asking why we care about any of it.

And then I went on to give my thoughts on why we care. I didnt need to be told why people care. I got it. You dialed in on part of my post and not the rest.

[roguery]

8 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Why did Luke ask Kate on their honeymoon to dish the dirt on the other brides?

Luke wanted to feel equal, if not superior, to the other couples, because secretly he was aware of being an imposter in terms of being a heterosexual husband. He wanted to “win”.

[Polliwollidoodle]

2 hours ago, Auntie said:

Luke and Kate: Yes, Luke is a Puke and a lukewarm one at that. He can't tell the truth, doesn't like being challenged about any comments, and should never have gotten past initial round of casting. Then there is Kate. So many people posting here are feeling sorry for her. I beg to differ, especially after seeing the finale. She lied the entire time on that show too. But nobody is calling her out for it. She is immature and showed her true, snarky attitude on the finale - constantly cutting Luke off (granted, he was always lying, but let him keep digging it deeper, Kate. She was rude and condescending the entire show. I'm not saying I like Luke, because I didn't, but Kate isn't the little innocent girl she portrayed herself to be.

Preach Auntie! I was so surprised to be so put off by Kate. She did not come across as sweet or intelligent or anything like that last night. After all of his horribleness to her, once the show was over and done, she goes to hang out with him and then they argue on the show about who initiated when. She really plummeted on the likeability and trustworthy scale. Shocked I tell you- I am shocked to be saying all this. 

[LuvMyShows]

2 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Maybe, but then where are the receipts? I feel like if Kate is a party girl something would have leaked by now. Pictures or videos of her drunk, passed out, or hanging all over a guy. Numerous pictures have leaked of Luke that suggest he is lying about his sexuality. But it has been crickets when to comes to Kate. 

IIRC, she did some pretty intense partying at her bach'ette party.

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

None of the guys are lazy here. But, Will and Keith are often low energy. I think that's what people mean when they call them lazy.

I think that it also was because of all the things Keith didn't do for himself, and let his grandma do.

[aphroditewitch]

4 minutes ago, mayvenne said:

Preach Auntie! I was so surprised to be so put off by Kate. She did not come across as sweet or intelligent or anything like that last night. After all of his horribleness to her, once the show was over and done, she goes to hang out with him and then they argue on the show about who initiated when. She really plummeted on the likeability and trustworthy scale. Shocked I tell you- I am shocked to be saying all this. 

It sounds like they might have hung out once and it doesn't even sound like they really hung out. 

[NoWhammies]

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't think it's that deep.  I just think he wasn't into her. 

I agree. I felt like the subtext that he wasn't saying is that even though he was turned on when she was in her lingerie, he knew it wasn't going to be a long-term thing because he wasn't that into her in other ways, so he didn't want to lead her on with sex. 

[aphroditewitch]

4 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

IIRC, she did some pretty intense partying at her bach'ette party.

It was a bachelorette party, people tend to party during them. I guess she could have acted super awkward and judgmental about everyone else having a good time, but Luke already did that so

Beyond that there has been nothing other than what Luke claimed. And if the show had her drunk, passed out, refusing to let them in a room where she is drinking on camera, they would have showed it. 

[spunky]

18 hours ago, OnTime said:

So funny how none of the "experts" were there!

It could be due to their budget. They can't use their air BNB budget to bail Pastor Cal out of jail because he punched Luke in the face. Pastor Cal was the only expert against Luke and Kate being matched from day one. Jessica on the other hand pushed for it.

[Mercolleen]

20 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

OMG Luke, just come out.

I am loving this host. He needs to host the 90 Day Fiance reunions.

YES YES YES YES YES (to the host). Kevin actually knows what he is doing.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, aphroditewitch said:

It sounds like they might have hung out once and it doesn't even sound like they really hung out. 

Kate admitted Luke put her to bed and said she was drinking because it was Halloween. If he is so horrible why did she want to see him? Still think they are both lying about what happened.

[Waterlilly]

Two things I loved on the final. One was when Kristine said Kate needed to work on her left hook and then gave Luke the death stare. The other was when Jasmine would be laughing and all over Will who didn’t seem to mind. This group does seem to be good friends though (except Lucifer) 😏

Edited April 10, 2019 by Waterlilly

[aphroditewitch]

43 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Kate admitted Luke put her to bed and said she was drinking because it was Halloween. If he is so horrible why did she want to see him? Still think they are both lying about what happened.

For the same reasons that a lot of abuse survivors continue to see their abuser. Halloween was right after decision day. So it doesn't seem like it was a recurring thing. And after having to relive everything, I doubt either one will speak to the other again. 

[configdotsys]

I'm back to work now so I totally forgot this was on last night. Just finished watching. A few thoughts on the show before reading what promises to be marvelous snark here:

Kate was definitely spilling the tea but that she went over to his house “because he invited me” after Decision Day just shows what a moron she is. Luke is one of the most vile people I have ever seen on television and their couch session with the host was nothing short of bizarre. There were a few times that Luke got this psycho face. And speaking of psycho face….

I will never side with AJ on anything. Even on this show, you could see him seething with rage at some points. All this talk about protecting the marriage was off the wall. The show got you the marriage, genius. No one that was part of the show was trying to break them up or anything so that was horse shit. Any time that anything negative about AJ or his temper comes up you can see it in his face that he gets so pissed off and instead of admitting that he can be a pissy diva, he makes excuses like he needs to protect the marriage. Explain to me why doing homework that was required contractually by the show requires protection.

Stephanie tried to cover him by saying something about him protecting her as if that’s why he gets so upset. I didn’t get that at all. I won’t change my view that she’s desperate to have a guy and has decided to tolerate his tantrums to have that. It’s her personal choice. It’s my personal choice to think she’s nuts for doing that. Someone who cannot cook or is disorganized or messy is something that can be worked on. If you are a grown up person who hurls yourself onto the floor, kicking your feet and flailing your arms when you don’t like something, that is not likely to change. He’s a crank. He seems incredibly manic to me. One of those who is great when things are going well but inject a small amount of stress into the situation and get just get nuts. So much so that Stephanie knew to get a headache and escape to the bedroom in the mini-moon house. 

Maybe I’m a total weirdo but I just don’t understand people who heading towards 30 years old who have to be all over each other, practically sitting in each other’s laps and making googly eyes at each other when sitting in a room full of people having a discussion. K&K looked stupid to me. There’s a time and a place for everything and I thought they were way over the top. They were purposely trying to look all cutesy but it came across as quite juvenile to me. 

Was happy that Will and Jasmine won’t be dating but wished more than anything that Will had more of a backbone. He did say that they were not compatible or on the same page “with communication,” but that was only half right. They communicated just fine. It was the content of their conversations that was not compatible and he should have just said that. Jasmine saying she hasn’t changed her mind about the man paying the bills may leave her single for a long time.

It was obvious from what was said earlier in the show that the big, huge, enormous announcement that one of the couples had was not going to be a baby but all I could think of when K&K said they were buying a house was big whoop. I mean, it's nice for them and all but the buildup was pretty extreme.

I’m glad this is over. I hope I never see Luke, Jasmine or AJ ever again.

Edited April 10, 2019 by configdotsys
fixed a typo

[Retired at last]

I was disappointed when Kate admitted to going over to Luke's after Decision Day and that he "put her to bed" because she was clearly too drunk to drive. The fact that she just credited that to it being Halloween was worrisome. I never agreed with Luke's assessments of her during their "marriage" but it appears that she may tend to over-indulge. I hope her new relationship (although I am not sure she was ready) is happier and healthier.

I know that Luke is a total jerk, but to me, he really did look surprised that AJ said he didn't like him and even said that he was being helpful to him. I think that part of Luke's narcissism (yep, playing couch therapist) is that he can't read other people because they aren't important. So, he really may not have understood how his words and actions affected Kate or anyone else. For him to ever be able to get past that will require YEARS of therapy, and even then, it's iffy.

And Jasmine looked gorgeous last night. I am not sure if Will was serious or not, but I could understand his wanting to date her and get to know each other in the real world without the unrealistic timeframes. Their values never would have meshed, and I am still glad that Will did not sleep with her until he was sure the relationship would last.

I agree with most of you who felt that as long as Stephanie is so desperate and determined to stay married, she will put up with her baby husband. Did anyone catch the part where she said that SHE has taken him on many trips to different countries and he corrected her to say that THEY went on vacations. I just wonder where they have so much time off from their jobs to do all that traveling since they were also off to film MAFS.

[LuvMyShows]

15 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

I was disappointed when Kate admitted to going over to Luke's after Decision Day and that he "put her to bed" because she was clearly too drunk to drive. The fact that she just credited that to it being Halloween was worrisome. 

For some reason I hadn't realized until now, that she went to bed at his house because of being too drunk to drive.  Soooo much about that doesn't make sense.  She probably drove there herself, since we know that her car was there late in the evening.  (I think it is highly unlikely that anyone she knows would have been willing to drive her car to Luke's house for her.)  So either, she was sober when she got there, and drank so much at his house that she was then unable to drive.  Or, she was not sober when she got there, and drove there drunk, either drinking more or not once she was there, and was then too drunk to drive home.  Usually, if one is too drunk to drive, they Uber home, especially if they are at the home of someone heinous.  To make the decision to spend the night at the home of someone heinous because you are too drunk to drive, is very sketchy.

[Drogo]

6 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I find it very interesting that both Keith and Will have been called lazy throughout this season even though we know Keith has a job and is also a student and we know Will has a job. I've literally never heard anyone even hint of AJ's or Luke's laziness.

Not surprising. I liked Will and Keith so while I didn't consider them lazy, I realize that's a pretty gentle criticism for a MAFS guy so it speaks to their likability.  Unlike shitbags AJ and Luke. 

AJ was basically Tom Hanks from Big everyday but with more anger issues, less cool apartment and a major double chin.

And Luke- he was one post-coital cry away from killing Kate and eating her liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti. 

[Marsh]

7 hours ago, Auntie said:

Keith and Kristine: BAD move on their part in buying a house IMHO. She probably wrote into the contract that Keith has to cook all meals and clean the house, and they can't have kids or a dog until he's 65 years old.

If you're a real estate agent, some brokers don't charge commission for the purchase of your own home once per year.  It's free money, so from a financial standpoint I could understand why they did it.

Btw good for her.  I bet her real estate business will increase due to the show.

[PupCal]

Stephanie, honey, A.J.'s not funny. Between his homophobia and his infantile tantrums, you've married a 13-year old. It's not too late! You can still divorce him and find a nice man to date while he gets his corner booth alone with a kid's playmat.

[configdotsys]

10 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

She seems to favor clothes that are baggier. That is her choice. She might not feel comfortable in more fitted clothing, a lot of women don't. 

I can totally relate to this. I don't wear fitted clothing. I just don't like it. I prefer boxy type shirts and polo shirts and it's nearly impossible to find women's clothing that is not stretch material or has tiny sleeves or is cut in a fitted way. Drives me nuts. 

[aphroditewitch]

32 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

I was disappointed when Kate admitted to going over to Luke's after Decision Day and that he "put her to bed" because she was clearly too drunk to drive. The fact that she just credited that to it being Halloween was worrisome. I never agreed with Luke's assessments of her during their "marriage" but it appears that she may tend to over-indulge. I hope her new relationship (although I am not sure she was ready) is happier and healthier.

I know that Luke is a total jerk, but to me, he really did look surprised that AJ said he didn't like him and even said that he was being helpful to him. I think that part of Luke's narcissism (yep, playing couch therapist) is that he can't read other people because they aren't important. So, he really may not have understood how his words and actions affected Kate or anyone else. For him to ever be able to get past that will require YEARS of therapy, and even then, it's iffy.

And Jasmine looked gorgeous last night. I am not sure if Will was serious or not, but I could understand his wanting to date her and get to know each other in the real world without the unrealistic timeframes. Their values never would have meshed, and I am still glad that Will did not sleep with her until he was sure the relationship would last.

I agree with most of you who felt that as long as Stephanie is so desperate and determined to stay married, she will put up with her baby husband. Did anyone catch the part where she said that SHE has taken him on many trips to different countries and he corrected her to say that THEY went on vacations. I just wonder where they have so much time off from their jobs to do all that traveling since they were also off to film MAFS.

Luke knew what he was doing, otherwise the worst of it would not have happened off camera.

A.J owns his company, so he sets his hours. And since he apparently works from his home office the majority of the time, he probably can go out of town for a vacation, but then work a day or so as long as  he has an internet connection. I don't remember what Stephanie does but she might be the same where she can do something similar. And if Stephanie has a job where she does international travel at all for work, it might just be that she is adding on some vacation days to those work trips and A.J goes along, working from the hotel room while she is in meetings. 

[scruffy73]

Kate and Lukewarm are ridiculous. I’m not moved by either of their tales of woe.

i guess I was wrong about Will and Jas. He really doesn’t like her. And she said she would never buy into 50/50 so he ha all the information he needs about a future with her. Separated is best.

oh and someone said some about Jas’s dookie braids...Jasmine never had braids. She had crotcheted hair or maybe even wigs or weaves. They did some funny cut and pastes with the scenes based upon Jasmine’s hair. You can’t take crotchet hair in and out on a whim.

good luck to AJ and Steph. She needs it.

[Yeah No]

14 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I'm def feeling some kind of way about Will.  I don't at all think he was being mean, but I think he is sorta f*cked up and maybe had an upbringing where being seen as a non-wavemaker trumps all, and that would be why he insanely/idiotically made that dating in two years comment.  I don't think he owned his feels, because I'm not sure he goes much deeper than the surface of what he experiences and thinks.  

I hesitate to say anything negative about Will for a lot of reasons, but I think he is a putz.  I would almost wonder if he isn't "on the spectrum" somewhere.  My husband and I think he is clueless about relationships.  Note:  That doesn't mean I think Jasmine is perfect.

13 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

The whole dating later thing was weird. I think Will is someone who doesn't like to be the bad guy but he is unwilling to be honest and the lack of honesty makes him look bad. He had to know that no woman was going to sit around waiting for them to maybe date at a later time. His eyes are always constantly darting around because he doesn't seem to want to look directly at the person he is speaking with. It is just strange. If I was talking to someone and they did that, I would walk away. 

I think that was why Jasmine said hey really haven't spoken much after decision day. She knows that he isn't into her. I also think that she made him go first so that people can see what she has been dealing with the entire time. 

I agree.  I also think Will doesn't have the self awareness to know that he's looking ridiculous to the rest of the world when he weasels around with his answers and makes no sense.  I think he doesn't look directly at people because he has difficulty with personal relationships,  perhaps even a bit of social anxiety, which is one reason why he is still single.  He has difficulty expressing himself too.  He always looked uncomfortable with Jasmine, and almost like he was disrespecting her as if she did something to piss him off.  OK, they disagree, but why the attitude?  I don't think she was constantly abusing him.  She made some critical comments but she did try to get closer to him too.  It felt to me like he was a putz and she was too much woman for him.  He couldn't even look her in the eye.  He couldn't even look the CAMERA in the "eye"!

14 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Will just didn't want to get on TV and say, "No way would I ever date YOU again."  So he gave a half ass answer.  He's not into her.  I mean when you say something else, what is that something else?

He could have said something like, "Jasmine is a truly wonderful person but we have too many differences for me to consider dating her again".  What would it take for him to be that diplomatic and articulate?  He is not very much of either.  Giving a half assed answer seems to be Will's trademark with everything.  He's one of those people never makes any sense to me.  I dated a guy like that once.  He was an engineer and reminds me of Will in a lot of ways.  The guy was socially clueless and I could never get a straight answer out of him about anything.  He seemed to contradict himself with every new sentence.

12 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe if we, and I include myself here, would accept that some people just don't have any chemistry and sometimes that's how things go; people would feel better about saying, "I'm just not that into _____."

I agree that they didn't have any chemistry.  I even agree that Will had some valid reasons for not being into Jasmine, but I would actually find it hard to see him as into any woman at this point.  He was just so distant and checked out, and I don't think it was just because he wasn't into Jasmine and was acting half assed because of that.  I think that some of the way he acts is just the way he is.  And I don't find that very attractive.  The way he acted made me feel like he thought she did something to offend him.  They just weren't in agreement on some things but it's like he had this look of disdain for her on his face.  I didn't love her opinions on money either but he could have been nicer towards her anyway.  He treated her like some money grubbing gold digger and I don't think she deserved that.  I don't think she treated him all that great either, but that doesn't change the way I see Will.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Yeah No

[albaniantv]

Unless they do a lot of work behind the scenes, I found the professionals or the counselors or whatever their titles to be pretty useless. In a few cases where it seemed obvious that couples really needed some help, they were out to lunch, although the guys (including the host of the reunion show) were better than the women counselors at saying something useful and sharply to the point. In the reunion show, for example, consisting of a bunch of short scenes constantly interrupted for commercials, they needed to know how to communicate better, as they kept repeating all season to all the couples ad nauseum.

The cases where i thought there were some serious flags up:

• Luke and Kate brought out the worst in each other and sank quickly to a sick dependence. The red flag was Luke asking her to lie about their sex life so that he could stay in control of all the information circulating. Everything went south from there with Kate too willing to believe his rejection was because she wasn't good enough and his delight in finding someone who believed his fiction. A decent counselor would have recognized this dynamic before it got so destructive.
• Jasmine's expectations or demands of a husband were frozen in a 1950's frame, yet I never heard her clarify what exactly she would do to merit someone paying all her bills. Who's your daddy? And I agree with above comments that Will did not seem aware of the difference between dating and an adult relationship, let alone marriage. Not sure he is "on the spectrum," but he did seem to have checked out and the counselors should have caught and derailed this mismatch before the wedding!

Hoping those counselors make minimum wage or are paid in cheap champagne which seem to be flowing freely everywhere. (Insert giggling emoji)

[antfitz]

13 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Maybe, but then where are the receipts? I feel like if Kate is a party girl something would have leaked by now. Pictures or videos of her drunk, passed out, or hanging all over a guy. Numerous pictures have leaked of Luke that suggest he is lying about his sexuality. But it has been crickets when to comes to Kate. 

 I agree with you. I don't think she is a sloppy drunk. You would have seen some instance of it like we saw AJ's temper. And I have wondered about Luke's sexuality all along.  I also thought all along that he wanted to go on just to be on television.

[antfitz]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I hesitate to say anything negative about Will for a lot of reasons, but I think he is a putz.  I would almost wonder if he isn't "on the spectrum" somewhere.  My husband and I think he is clueless about relationships.  Note:  That doesn't mean I think Jasmine is perfect.

I agree.  I also think Will doesn't have the self awareness to know that he's looking ridiculous to the rest of the world when he weasels around with his answers and makes no sense.  I think he doesn't look directly at people because he has difficulty with personal relationships,  perhaps even a bit of social anxiety, which is one reason why he is still single.  He has difficulty expressing himself too.  He always looked uncomfortable with Jasmine, and almost like he was disrespecting her as if she did something to piss him off.  OK, they disagree, but why the attitude?  I don't think she was constantly abusing him.  She made some critical comments but she did try to get closer to him too.  It felt to me like he was a putz and she was too much woman for him.  He couldn't even look her in the eye.  He couldn't even look the CAMERA in the "eye"!

He could have said something like, "Jasmine is a truly wonderful person but we have too many differences for me to consider dating her again".  What would it take for him to be that diplomatic and articulate?  He is not very much of either.  Giving a half assed answer seems to be Will's trademark with everything.  He's one of those people never makes any sense to me.  I dated a guy like that once.  He was an engineer and reminds me of Will in a lot of ways.  The guy was socially clueless and I could never get a straight answer out of him about anything.  He seemed to contradict himself with every new sentence.

I agree that they didn't have any chemistry.  I even agree that Will had some valid reasons for not being into Jasmine, but I would actually find it hard to see him as into any woman at this point.  He was just so distant and checked out, and I don't think it was just because he wasn't into Jasmine and was acting half assed because of that.  I think that some of the way he acts is just the way he is.  And I don't find that very attractive.  The way he acted made me feel like he thought she did something to offend him.  They just weren't in agreement on some things but it's like he had this look of disdain for her on his face.  I didn't love her opinions on money either but he could have been nicer towards her anyway.  He treated her like some money grubbing gold digger and I don't think she deserved that.  I don't think she treated him all that great either, but that doesn't change the way I see Will.

 Is it will the one who slept a lot? That shows he is checked out of everything. And that isn't Jasmine's fault.

[antfitz]

7 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

For some reason I hadn't realized until now, that she went to bed at his house because of being too drunk to drive.  Soooo much about that doesn't make sense.  She probably drove there herself, since we know that her car was there late in the evening.  (I think it is highly unlikely that anyone she knows would have been willing to drive her car to Luke's house for her.)  So either, she was sober when she got there, and drank so much at his house that she was then unable to drive.  Or, she was not sober when she got there, and drove there drunk, either drinking more or not once she was there, and was then too drunk to drive home.  Usually, if one is too drunk to drive, they Uber home, especially if they are at the home of someone heinous.  To make the decision to spend the night at the home of someone heinous because you are too drunk to drive, is very sketchy.

 She may not have been too drunk to drive. He may have had sex with her. At either one of them wanted to say that.  I know if I were her, I would not want to have admitted that .

13 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Why is Luke's sexuality such a constant source of discussion? Why does anyone care?

Being curious doesn't mean anything weird or negative. People are just curious by nature.

It reminds us me of that Denzel movie remember the Titans. There was a new recruit on the football team in that movie that seemed to exhibit multiple signs of a homosexual male. One of the team members just went up and asked him he was gay. The other guy asked why did it matter. It really didn't matter but the team member was just so curious he had to know. He never got his answer either. 

We don't need to know anything about these people or anyone's sexuality but it will never stop people from being curious about such things.

 People want to know about his sexuality, because he is on a TV show marrying a woman. If he is gay, then he should not try to cover it that way. And if he is gay, it's creepy.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, antfitz said:

 People want to know about his sexuality, because he is on a TV show marrying a woman. If he is gay, then he should not try to cover it that way. And if he is gay, it's creepy.

I wouldn't want to marry someone only to find out later that they didn't tell me they were gay or bisexual.  That's one of those things that IMO requires full disclosure between partners before marriage.  Kate deserved his openness and honesty on that subject and she didn't get it.

When Kate revealed that he asked her if she thought he was a homosexual after they had sex, that was it for me.  No straight person would ever ask that question.  I don't buy that every time something about Luke leads us to question his sexuality that it's just his "ironic hipster douche personality".  There is no way that all those red flags together don't signal something about Luke's sexuality.  If there were just one or two flags, maybe, but every time we hear more about this situation there are more waving red flags.  And even if those flags just signal that he is sexually conflicted or majorly messed up, that's bad enough.

[love2lovebadtv]

23 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Boy, these “experts” have to go.  Right off the bat, A.J. Was hyper, Luke was weird, Jasmine & Will had different ideas about money.  They couldn’t pick these things up when they interviewed?  That’s their job, and they just can’t get it.  Get new experts.

Bingo. So what questions are they asking if not some very basic ones like values, preferences, hobbies, and sexual orientation? Is Pepper still going through people's underwear drawers? That's probably more for her enjoyment than figuring out what the couples are actually like. Some of what they missed is so obvious. The show needs a makeover. 

[Booger666]

17 hours ago, lizajane said:

Too bad he couldn’t be honest with her about that – it might do her a favor to know so she can improve her approach in future relationships, as clearly she is adamant about how important these things are to her.

I watched the show with CC on.  When the host asked all of them to give advice to future participants Will said something like “Give it your all and don’t be selfish”, right after that Jasmine turned to him and muttered “Don’t be throwing any shade”.  Will didn’t respond to Jas or they didn’t show it.  This quick exchange made me wonder if Will at some point told Jasmine that her expectation of a husband taking on 100% of the financial burden to support a family is selfish and she told him he better not bring it up on camera because the way Will responded to the host’s question seemed like a very generic response and Jas immediately thought it was targeting her. 

[Soup333]

6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

When Kate revealed that he asked her if she thought he was a homosexual after they had sex, that was it for me.  No straight person would ever ask that question.  I don't buy that every time something about Luke leads us to question his sexuality that it's just his "ironic hipster douche personality".  There is no way that all those red flags together don't signal something about Luke's sexuality.  If there were just one or two flags, maybe, but every time we hear more about this situation there are more waving red flags.  And even if those flags just signal that he is sexually conflicted or majorly messed up, that's bad enough.

This. There's just no way all this smoke doesn't add up to a blaze somewhere.

[Soup333]

7 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

I watched the show with CC on.  When the host asked all of them to give advice to future participants Will said something like “Give it your all and don’t be selfish”, right after that Jasmine turned to him and muttered “Don’t be throwing any shade”.  Will didn’t respond to Jas or they didn’t show it.  This quick exchange made me wonder if Will at some point told Jasmine that her expectation of a husband taking on 100% of the financial burden to support a family is selfish and she told him he better not bring it up on camera because the way Will responded to the host’s question seemed like a very generic response and Jas immediately thought it was targeting her. 

I meant to bring this us as well. Jasmine spoke first and she said something along the lines of if people know they have issues being open then this process isn't right for them. Then Will said what he said about selfishness. Clearly, they weren't speaking to each other but they were speaking about each other.

And both were right. To Jasmine's point, people like Jephte and Will should probably not do something like this - but I guess you don't know how you're going to react until you're in the situation. And I'll always think maybe their reactions would have been different if they'd had different spouses. And Will is right about selfishness in a general sense. The real takeaway from his comment is that he felt Jasmine was selfish! So they would have never ever ever worked out. I'm still scratching my head as to why he even suggested that they could or should date in the future.

That woman wants what she wants and God bless her. I think she is...she's not my cup of tea but maybe she'll find what she seems to need out of man but it's just not Will. And since Will wants a partner that he can build with he would never be happy with a woman like Jasmine.

I see people saying Jasmine was too much woman for Will and I think that's ridiculous. How about she was too little woman for Will. She wanted to contribute 0% as opposed to 50%. They were a bad match. End of story.

[Auntie]

1 hour ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Boy, these “experts” have to go.

Right???!!!! Dr. Pepper, Coca Cola and Mt. Dew - - they add nothing of value to this program. And as I previously posted a while ago, the "experts" and producers of the show purposely select people who will create controversy on the show (for ratings) over people who might actually make a good match with a remote possibility of falling in love. The fake tears at decision day and the shaking of heads - give me a break.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Auntie
typo and reference to finale instead of 'decision day'

[VedaPierce]

22 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

The whole dating later thing was weird. I think Will is someone who doesn't like to be the bad guy but he is unwilling to be honest and the lack of honesty makes him look bad. He had to know that no woman was going to sit around waiting for them to maybe date at a later time. His eyes are always constantly darting around because he doesn't seem to want to look directly at the person he is speaking with. It is just strange. If I was talking to someone and they did that, I would walk away. 

I think that was why Jasmine said hey really haven't spoken much after decision day. She knows that he isn't into her. I also think that she made him go first so that people can see what she has been dealing with the entire time. 

Right, and also, he didn’t like that she made him go first. He was visibly uncomfortable with giving a straight-up answer. At the beginning of this, I was thinking Will was a nice guy, but at the end, no. I don’t like him. He’s cagey. He plays mind games. He says one thing but does another. He revised history—or tried to—by trying to proclaim that he was SO INTO Jasmine giving him dinner in her lingerie. I didn’t see that AT ALL. I saw him visibly uncomfortable during that scene, not into it. Will, look to Keith for how someone who’s ‘into it’ behaves. I didn’t see a lot of honesty and sincerity out of Will, especially the last episode and reunion. It’s ok to just not be into someone...but not ok to then offer up dating them again. It’s confusing and insulting to Jasmine. Don’t play with peoples’ heads. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by VedaPierce

[Yeah No]

34 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

This. There's just no way all this smoke doesn't add up to a blaze somewhere.

On another note with Luke, when Kate revealed that he asked her for any scoop Kate knew about the other participants, it showed me that he knew he was an impostor, like someone else said up thread.  But it also showed that he didn't take being there seriously.  To him this was one big hoot, with him there for the ha-has and drama.  I think Luke is one big drama king and thought going on a reality show like this was great fodder for drama.  I bet he's a big gossip, too.  He likes to have drama swirling around him so everyone on his social media can say, "What's Luke up to now?".  He's similar to one of those people that hangs off a cliff and risks their life for an Instagram photo.  Only thing is he didn't care that there was a real person with real feelings he'd be dealing with and potentially hurting in the process.  Of course that never occurs to selfish creeps like him.  He probably thought everyone on this show was there for false reasons too.  Asshole.

[Yeah No]

44 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

I watched the show with CC on.  When the host asked all of them to give advice to future participants Will said something like “Give it your all and don’t be selfish”, right after that Jasmine turned to him and muttered “Don’t be throwing any shade”.  Will didn’t respond to Jas or they didn’t show it.  This quick exchange made me wonder if Will at some point told Jasmine that her expectation of a husband taking on 100% of the financial burden to support a family is selfish and she told him he better not bring it up on camera because the way Will responded to the host’s question seemed like a very generic response and Jas immediately thought it was targeting her. 

I think part of the reason Will had this sneering expression on his face and unwillingness to face Jasmine is because under the surface he was seething at her.  She rubbed him so the wrong way that he was probably quite less than nice about it with her in private.  The fact that she told him not to throw shade also made me realize that she too could have thrown a lot of shade at Will herself but chose not to, which is one reason their on-camera exchanges seemed so stilted and strange.  She was also holding a lot back.  I think that made Jasmine look worse on-camera because there were two sides to this story and we weren't seeing even half of it.  But it also means that she had a little bit of class not to get mean in return.

29 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Right, and also, he didn’t like that she made him go first. He was visibly uncomfortable with giving a straight-up answer. At the beginning of this, I was thinking Will was a nice guy, but at the end, no. I don’t like him. He’s cagey. He plays mind games. He says one thing but does another. He revised history—or tried to—by trying to proclaim that he was SO INTO Jasmine giving him dinner in her lingerie. I didn’t see that AT ALL. I saw him visibly uncomfortable during that scene, not into it. Will, look to Keith for how someone whose ‘into it’ behaves. I didn’t see a lot of honesty and sincerity out of Will, especially the last episode and reunion. It’s ok to just not be into someone...but not ok to then offer up dating them again. It’s confusing and insulting to Jasmine. Don’t play with peoples’ heads. 

I agree.  Just because he didn't want to throw shade, or was not throwing shade because Jasmine warned him not to didn't mean he had to make up some lame stuff to appear like he was actually interested in her in any way.