S02.E09: Project Daedalus

[Bort]

Quote

When the Discovery crew infiltrates Section 31's headquarters, suspicions arise that the crew may have a traitor in their midst. Burnham tries to help Spock but her efforts don't go as planned.

Airdate: Thursday, March 14, 2019

[starri]

Goodness, that was a sad one.  I figured someone wasn't going to make it out, but I figured they'd find a way to save Airiam and have Nhan sacrifice herself.

I'm probably going to have to watch that one again.

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, was the AI from the future that destroys all sentient life in the universe (per Spock's encounter with the Red Angel) attempting to infect Control (seriously, that's the only name they could come up with) in order to begin the reign of the sentience species-killing AI  (essentially a Star Trek version of Skynet)  in the first place ?  Bit of a paradox there.

The new security officer was definitely on to Airiam, so you kind of knew that she wouldn't be lasting much longer -- though I would have liked a bit more back story explanation of why she was augmented other than 'shuttle accident'.

I'm still unclear, did Control kill everyone at the Section 31 base because it was evolving based on data from the uploads from Airiam ?

Anson Mount continues to impress as Pike.

ETA: Re-watched this morning, and the program controlling Airiam was uploading all the AI data obtained from the sphere into Control, but had only uploaded 25% so far (since the data was so massive).

Edited March 15, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[thuganomics85]

I enjoyed getting to see more of the bridge crew in this episode, but should have known that it meant one of them was dying.  Fare thee well, Airiam.  And they were only just getting into your backstory and explaining who she was (not a flat-out android like Data, but apparently a hybrid of some kind?)  Hopefully this means no one else is going to bit it anytime soon.  They better not do anything to my fav, Detmer!

Admiral Cornwall is here too and she gets to join in on being on the run!

Spock and Stamets playing off one another was something I never knew I wanted.

At least Michael didn't have to be the one to space Airaim since Nhan took it upon herself to do it, but watching it happen in front of her is probably not going to change her views that she is responsible for every bad thing that happens on this show (man, she and Oliver Queen from Arrow would get along splendidly!)

No one will ever to Picard as my favorite captain, but man, I think Pike is on his way to being a close second. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Pike had some good lines this episode.

Pike: "Pull up defense schematics please.  Admiral, you want to tell us what kind of shitstorm we're flying into."

Pike: "Giving up our values in the name of security is to lose the battle in advance."

[Ottis]

It feels like Discovery is making the same mistake it did last season. It built up a plot narrative.... finding Spock, the Red Angel and the relationship between Spock and Michael... and even had a side plot going on with Section 31 and Georgeoui and it’s and her goals. All good. 

Then, just like last year when it, in midseason, threw in the Mirror Universe on top of the Klingon struggle and ST world building, this season Discovery throws in the red sphere and Section 31’s AI and its status as the potential killer of all life in the universe. Just like last season, it’s too much, too soon, and for me, really broke me out of the story. I would have preferred if the show had waited a bit to introduce the threat, played a little more around the Red Angel, and if the threat wasn’t something as mundane as rogue AI. 

I spent a lot of this episode saying, “wait- what is that again and why does something that practically begged Discovery to preserve its history have a role in a rogue Section 31 AI, which, BTW... why did IT go rogue and why does it want to kill everything? Huh?”

[marinw]

So Airiam’s shuttle crashed,  she was badly injured, and then she got Borged? Is that what happened? I keep comparing her to Future Pike after his accident. They only way to shoehorn STD into the TOS era is to accept that the technology has to regress within the next decade.

STD Spock is Ethan Peck playing a Vulcan, not the Spock we knew and loved. I do like his acting, but not for that character. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by marinw

[MissLucas]

That was an odd episode - some good stuff and some not so good. 

Ariam's story was highly effective considered within this episode but I really wished they had built up her character and background a bit more over the whole season. The writer for this episode did a brilliant job in making the audience care for her and displaying the emotional bonds between the bridge crew - yet I needed no Kleenex at the end because I couldn't help feeling a bit manipulated.

I enjoyed the sibling squabble - particularly Spock calling out Burnham on her guilt-addiction. I like Burnham but her constant 'I have to carry the weight of the universe on my shoulders' act is getting tedious.

If tiny Spock recognized the logical flaw in mini Burnham's actions when she ran away and realized that her supposedly selfless eviscerating of him (for which she then could torture herself for years in silence) was just part of a pattern then I can understand his coldness towards her. 

Also: It should give you pause if your half-Vulcan foster brother is throwing shade at your lack of interior design. Her smug answer to his observation had me eye-rolling pretty bad.

I'm also not sure what to think about the Admiral's admission that Pike is such a special snowflake that he had to be kept out of the war. That's basically admitting that ethics need to be side-lined during wartime. And while the cynic in me thinks that's a sad but not entirely wrong line of thinking I also have to wonder what Captain Picard would have to say to that. (Not to mention the thousands of soldiers who were just declared canonfodder due to their lack of ethical superiority).

[starri]

20 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Also: It should give you pause if your half-Vulcan foster brother is throwing shade at your lack of interior design. Her smug answer to his observation had me eye-rolling pretty bad.

It does raise the question of why one of the ship’s most senior officers is still bunking with Tilly. 

This episode was the first written by Michelle Paradise. They liked the work so much she was asked to co-write the two-part finale when she originally was not scheduled to. And she’s going to be in charge for S3. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

That was an odd episode - some good stuff and some not so good. 

Ariam's story was highly effective considered within this episode but I really wished they had built up her character and background a bit more over the whole season. The writer for this episode did a brilliant job in making the audience care for her and displaying the emotional bonds between the bridge crew - yet I needed no Kleenex at the end because I couldn't help feeling a bit manipulated.

I enjoyed the sibling squabble - particularly Spock calling out Burnham on her guilt-addiction. I like Burnham but her constant 'I have to carry the weight of the universe on my shoulders' act is getting tedious.

If tiny Spock recognized the logical flaw in mini Burnham's actions when she ran away and realized that her supposedly selfless eviscerating of him (for which she then could torture herself for years in silence) was just part of a pattern then I can understand his coldness towards her. 

Also: It should give you pause if your half-Vulcan foster brother is throwing shade at your lack of interior design. Her smug answer to his observation had me eye-rolling pretty bad.

I'm also not sure what to think about the Admiral's admission that Pike is such a special snowflake that he had to be kept out of the war. That's basically admitting that ethics need to be side-lined during wartime. And while the cynic in me thinks that's a sad but not entirely wrong line of thinking I also have to wonder what Captain Picard would have to say to that. (Not to mention the thousands of soldiers who were just declared canonfodder due to their lack of ethical superiority).

I thought the background on Ariam was efficient and effective storytelling for a character who would die in the episode. But until this episode, I hadn't a clue she was actually a human with robotics. I too wish they'd built up her character a bit more.

Loved the squabble.

I also liked that although Section 31 is shady, the attacks weren't directed by the people who work at Section 31. Anyone interested in figuring out the timeline (they have been dead two weeks) to pinpoint when it was Control holding the reins?

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, starri said:

This episode was the first written by Michelle Paradise. They liked the work so much she was asked to co-write the two-part finale when she originally was not scheduled to. And she’s going to be in charge for S3. 

That's really good news!

[DavidJSnyder]

Was there a line that I missed about why they couldn’t beam them off the station? Earlier they said if there is any trouble we’ll beam you out if there, but then trouble arose and they didn’t seem to try to attempt it. 

Also, when Airiam disabled her helmet, I wondered why they couldn’t just eject her into space with her helmet on and then pick her up later. She still would be in transmitting range? But that means transmitting requires her organic components?

[Joimiaroxeu]

"Uniquely mundane." Disco Spock is savage. I love him.

I thought that was a weird swerve Spock did to offer his opinion to Stamets about Culber. I hope he's going to be used for more than running around the ship dropping truth bombs on everybody.

Quote

Anson Mount continues to impress as Pike.

He sure does. Great casting and great writing for the character.

Quote

No one will ever to Picard as my favorite captain, but man, I think Pike is on his way to being a close second. 

Same.

[MissLucas]

7 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I thought that was a weird swerve Spock did to offer his opinion to Stamets about Culber. I hope he's going to be used for more than running around the ship dropping truth bombs on everybody.

Yeah, that bit had me confused. I mean counselor Spock is intriguing but how exactly did he know the intricacies of their relationship? That must have been a hell of a briefing he received once on board the Discovery: 'This ship runs on mushrooms, we don't talk about its last captain too much nor about the reasons why it had disappeared for a while during the Klingon war, your foster sister was in a relationship with a human who was a Klingon grafted into human form with a human personality transplant - things got a bit wonky there but he's better now. Except that he might be a spy and a saboteur. Oh, and he also killed the ship's Doctor before he got better but that's fixed - he's all better now too thanks to the mushrooms we mentioned 30 seconds ago. Any questions?'

Edited March 16, 2019 by MissLucas

[xaxat]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Also: It should give you pause if your half-Vulcan foster brother is throwing shade at your lack of interior design.

Vulcans know interior design. I covet their house on Vulcan so much! It is gorgeous. 

I agree that Airiam's story was well handled. The memory archiving and her conversation with Tilly ("Those memories are the first I delete.") did a great job of turning her into a character in very short order. So much so, that I was convinced that Burnham and Tilly's efforts would save her. 

[mrspidey]

Aaaannnnd...DISCO continues to rid itself of expensive makeup effects/sfx. Who's gonna be next? The poor guy with the flu from a few episodes ago?

[marinw]

1 hour ago, mrspidey said:

Who's gonna be next? The poor guy with the flu from a few episodes ago?

Keyla Detmer will go back to how she looked in the Pilot. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by marinw

[Latverian Diplomat]

I wonder why Burnham didn't rush over to Nhan to see if she was OK. And no one on the bridge seemed to give a shit about her either. Turns out they aren't all heartless idiots, they had to do that to set up Nhan's surprise opening of the airlock. Bad writing IMHO.

In the end, Ariam did more to stop Ariam than Burnham did?

Not sure why Ariam was phaser proof. I can understand stun not working, but phasers can do real damage on higher settings. I guess they didn't crank up their weapons enough to cut off a few limbs? That wouldn't have been lethal, right? The hand to hand was kind of boring to watch in the sense that it was unclear what weak spots Ariam had and what Burnham was trying to accomplish. She finally had some luck, not sure why or how.

I thought Spock was emoting an awful lot, but then he said he was angry and enjoying it, so I guess that's OK? I miss the real Spock who could be a devastating interlocutor without ever raising his voice though.

[Primal Slayer]

This is what Discovery needs to start doing...exploring its cast (but not calling them off just to explore them) cause I dont know what majority of them do or their names because they are just there to fill a seat. Ariam's death would've been so much more emotional if she was an actual character before this episode and I wish we got to see more of her.

[SourK]

I loved it when Michael said they needed to evade the stupid knife mines by using randomness and chaos, as if that's not their go-to strategy. (Also, having everyone call out a different flight maneuver isn't random).

As others have said -- we all hate the thing where they stand around doing exposition when it's an emergency, and the whole last portion of this episode was just be thinking "Is the security guard okay?! She can't breathe! Why won't you help her get her respirator back?! Did you look to see if she's all right?!" Michael bailed on helping her and bailed on pushing the robot lady out the airlock even after she was ordered to do it. I would honestly not put her on another away mission after that, but I'm sure nobody cares.

Also, as others have said, I really liked the parts that helped us get to know the robot lady, but it would have meant a lot more to me if we had gotten to know her slowly over the whole season and not just at the moment of her death.

Also, I hate what they're doing with Spock, but shout-out to him for noticing that Michael turns everything into a big dramatic narrative where she always has the most important role. I'm not 100% sure the show knows how to course-correct from doing the same thing, but if this new writer's sticking around, then maybe?

[DrScottie]

1 hour ago, SourK said:

 As others have said -- we all hate the thing where they stand around doing exposition when it's an emergency, and the whole last portion of this episode was just be thinking "Is the security guard okay?! She can't breathe! Why won't you help her get her respirator back?! Did you look to see if she's all right?!" Michael bailed on helping her and bailed on pushing the robot lady out the airlock even after she was ordered to do it. I would honestly not put her on another away mission after that, but I'm sure nobody cares.

Airiam herself even told her to do it. She even outright stated she'll kill her and everyone on the ship and enable the destruction of all sentient life in the galaxy if Burnham didn't kill her first. Troi failed her command test because she wouldn't send Geordi to his death in a simulation to save the ship. It's a decision that comes with the StarFleet uniform particularly for those in command positions. Burnham should be looking at another court martial for insubordination at the minimum, but you're probably right that it won't happen. It sucks as she's your friend, but the fate of the galaxy hangs in the balance. 

[Helena Dax]

Wasn't Nahn wearing a spacesuit which includes a helmet with a breathing support system?

I wouldn't say this Spock reminds me of TOS Spock, but I like him and I like his bitchy relationship with Michael. I also like the idea of an all-powerful computer trying to become conscient, although it kind of seems Kirk's speciality, you know. 

I liked  the Ariam part too.

[Miles]

Did those dumbasses just forget that they have a transporter and could have beamed Airiam directly into an arrest cell?

[ahisma]

4 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I wouldn't say this Spock reminds me of TOS Spock, but I like him and I like his bitchy relationship with Michael. 

Same. (Frankly, Nimoy version could be bitchy, too. Just way more subtly.) This, to me, is just a younger Spock—and one who just had his entire logical foundations turned upside down. Of course the version we meet in TOS is more matured and settled. I think we'll see the Peck version get there. 

23 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I thought that was a weird swerve Spock did to offer his opinion to Stamets about Culber.

Yeah, I liked it and it would be in character for him to say something like that to people he knew better. But it was a little forced—we haven't seen Spock have the opportunity to know this crew that well. 

14 hours ago, SourK said:

"Is the security guard okay?! She can't breathe! Why won't you help her get her respirator back?! Did you look to see if she's all right?!" 

I knooooow! The bridge crew were watching the video feeds from Michael and Ariam and I was just, ”but, but, but...!!!” Where is my “we leave no one behind” Star Trek ethos?

Other than those two minor quibbles, though, I did love the ep.

ETA: Oh, yes, quibble three—I was thinking the other way around. Why didn't they beam in an additional security team to help Michael and Nhan with the fight?

Edited March 16, 2019 by ahisma

[Latverian Diplomat]

5 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Wasn't Nahn wearing a spacesuit which includes a helmet with a breathing support system?

Presumably, she was wearing a standard, human issue space suit that supplied a nitrogen oxygen mix, and she still needs her gadget to make that breathable for her. 

You would think that her suit and hey even her quarters would supply her own kind of air, that she wouldn't wear her single point of failure device on her face (especially working in security where she could expect to get into a tussle now and then, etc.) but that would be thinking about this more than the writers that just wanted her to have an obvious weakness to take her out of most of the fight.

[Quark]

Brilliant episode.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm liking this series less and less.

It find it's lacking in levity and takes itself way too seriously.

At the beginning I enjoyed Burnham, but I now find her tedious and one-note. Having the storyline from the point of view of a subordinate was a maverick move, but to have literally everything that happens in the Universe be because of her is getting a little too much.

I'm very disappointed in New Spock. That beard is bad. Where are the purple eye shadow and the roller bangs? Vulcans are supposed to be logical, so why are they playing up their emotions in the plot line all the time? It makes Vulcans look like whiny emos. Where's the logic? It's gone, in favor of oh look! An emotional Vulcan! And he's got the most emotion of all the crew since he's OMG half-human!

And all this overwrought brother-sister drama... it's not credible. Neither is a Vulcan terrorist organization.

Ash Tyler is played by a terrible and mumbling actor.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Toaster Strudel

[LittleIggy]

Guess they figured it was too much trouble to keep torturing Mary Wiseman’s lovely, wild red hair into a slick bun! 😆

Edited March 17, 2019 by LittleIggy

[Latverian Diplomat]

6 hours ago, Toaster Strudel said:

. it's not credible. Neither is a Vulcan terrorist organization.

While it would be interesting to see how an intelligently portrayed Vulcan internal conflict would work out...the Logic Extremists don't make a lot of sense. First, they wouldn't call themselves that, would they? ("Extremism in the defense of logic is no fallacy?" 🙂 ) Secondly, Vulcans are by and large pacifists, and they come by that through logic. So, how are the logic extremists going to convince mainstream Vulcans through violent acts against soft targets like Sarek's family? Is that a logical thing to do? Can't they just make a better logical argument?

Isolationism would make perfect sense as one Vulcan position, and in the original series, it was given a respectful treatment in the form of T'Pau. But T'Pau would not be trying to blow up little kids, human or not.

[TV Anonymous]

Completely out of topic, but I just realize that Burnham, a Commander, a Senior Officer, billets with Tilly, an Ensign, a very Junior Officer. Maybe nothing is wrong with that for that era but it is just strange if one reflects to the navies of today.

[LittleIggy]

Was Ariam’s consciousness uploaded into an android body after the shuttle crash? Was any part of her still actually human.  I’m just wondering. 🤔

[GusMahler]

Now that we are getting a completely fleshed out character in Captain Pike, performed admirably by Anson Mount, the next time I watch The Cage, I will have a sorrowful connection to his tragic fate and have a greater sense of happiness for the resolution of his plight. Well played Spock!

[RobertDeSneero]

Spock is searching for a logical reason why he was chosen by the Red Angel.  If one cannot find a logical reason, then perhaps there is a non-logical reason.

For those wondering about Airiam's nature, she prefers being called cybernetically augmented to half robot.

[Latverian Diplomat]

13 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Was Ariam’s consciousness uploaded into an android body after the shuttle crash? Was any part of her still actually human.  I’m just wondering. 🤔

I don't think we're told, but the fact that she needs to wear a space suit and dies upon exposure to space implies that there is some part of her brain and body that was still human tissue.

Also, uploading a human mind into an android body is unknown tech as late as TNG's "Schizoid Man" but Disco doesn't always respect what previous series have said was or wasn't possible.

[Latverian Diplomat]

2 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Spock is searching for a logical reason why he was chosen by the Red Angel.  If one cannot find a logical reason, then perhaps there is a non-logical reason.
 

Or he just doesn't have enough information to deduce the reason. TOS Spock dealt with that sort of situation all the time, without losing his composure and taking it out on 3D-chess sets.

[Ceindreadh]

18 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Completely out of topic, but I just realize that Burnham, a Commander, a Senior Officer, billets with Tilly, an Ensign, a very Junior Officer. Maybe nothing is wrong with that for that era but it is just strange if one reflects to the navies of today.

Burnham had no rank when she was originally assigned to billet with Tilly. 

As they’re now friends, perhaps Burnham just didn’t want to request a move. 

[marinw]

40 minutes ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

13 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Was Ariam’s consciousness uploaded into an android body after the shuttle crash? Was any part of her still actually human.  I’m just wondering. 🤔

I don't think we're told, but the fact that she needs to wear a space suit and dies upon exposure to space implies that there is some part of her brain and body that was still human tissue.

The closest anology I can think of is Robocop. Do Starfleet people have to signal thier consent when they join Starfleet that getting cyberdized to this degree is something that may be done in the case of severe injury? 

Edited March 18, 2019 by marinw

[Latverian Diplomat]

6 minutes ago, marinw said:

The closest anology I can think of is Robocop. Do Starfleet people have signal thier consent when they join Starfleet that getting cyberdized to this degree is something that may be done in the case of severe injury? 

Since parts of her brain, e.g., her memory, seemed to be electronic, Robocop fits pretty well.

I don't think that we have to assume that this sort of treatment is limited to Starfleet personnel. (As for consent, I'm guessing Living Wills in the Federation can get quite complicated.)

Maybe Ariam wasn't even in Starfleet at the time of the accident? (The video may have said so and I missed it). Maybe she joined afterward? We can only speculate. 

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

I don't think we're told, but the fact that she needs to wear a space suit and dies upon exposure to space implies that there is some part of her brain and body that was still human tissue.

There's also the fact that she had a sense of humor. (To Tilly: "Those are the first memories I erase!") That's when I thought of her as a human with robot parts and not vice versa.

[Lebanna]

Yes, she clearly shows great emotion in this episode, making her extremely different from Data. An android model such as Data probably could have incorporated real memories but, at least before Lore’s emotion chip, it wouldn’t have made him able to feel any of the experiences on an emotional level. He would probably just have seen them as wonderful learning opportunities, not much more.

So Airiam was definitely a mostly human brain (and lower jaw) walking around in a part android body, not a mostly android with some human memories. I wonder if there is a difference between her and Pike, because perhaps after this event he didn’t sign the consent form to be Airiam-ed? So they had to try to save him inside the body that was left? Or perhaps after what happened to Airiam they decided that augmentation was too dangerous - the way they outlawed genetic augmentation after Khan. (Although Bashir’s backstory showed that it was always still going on, illegally and in secret. 20 year old spoiler).

So either way, Pike didn’t get the chance to be given a snazzy robot body to walk around in, after his accident.

[paigow]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:39 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Anson Mount continues to impress as Pike.
 

Pike was a legend because of what he did on the Enterprise....saving Starfleet as Discovery captain has to be erased when the Red Angel reboots the TARDIS...

[Lazlo]

Ooff... I think this episode gave us both the strength's and weaknesses of this show. Airiam's sacrifice was very sad and Hannah Cheesman really did a great job of giving her emotion and depth.

On the other hand the show did an abysmal job setting up the character in previous episodes. I'm pretty sure it was never told Airiam was a human cyborg prior to this, and to be honest I doubt that was the original idea when they created her ('Airiam' sounds more like a name for an alien character.) We didn't see her apparently very active social life either, which seems a real shame and robs her death of much of the power it should have. 

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Lebanna said:

I wonder if there is a difference between her and Pike, because perhaps after this event he didn’t sign the consent form to be Airiam-ed? So they had to try to save him inside the body that was left? Or perhaps after what happened to Airiam they decided that augmentation was too dangerous - the way they outlawed genetic augmentation after Khan. (Although Bashir’s backstory showed that it was always still going on, illegally and in secret. 20 year old spoiler).

I was going to mention Future Pike and you beat me to it!  Your theory makes sence, @Lebanna. Another example is that Deep Space Nine episode where Bashir replaced part of a Vedic's brain with a positronic subsitute and it didn't work out. Another reason why I hate it when they retcon technology. 

[TV Anonymous]

23 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Burnham had no rank when she was originally assigned to billet with Tilly. 

As they’re now friends, perhaps Burnham just didn’t want to request a move. 

Which is worse, actually. An officer to billet with a convicted felon that has been stripped of her rank?

[RobertDeSneero]

21 hours ago, Lazlo said:

'Airiam' sounds more like a name for an alien character

Maybe it's only her last name and her first name is Zora.

Her memories were saved in Discovery to make room for what Control wanted.  Saved memories in a season with a storyline about AI.   Hmmmm.......

[KimberStormer]

Finally got a chance to see this after a bit of a rough emotional week for me.  Iiiiii dunno guys.  Like, I can enjoy this beardy guy they've got on their show.  But he is not Spock.  Somehow dozens of writers of episodes of three shows and a whole bunch of movies, plus god knows how many spinoff novels, comic books, video games, etc etc managed to write a recognizable and reasonably consistent character called Spock, but the Discovery writers cannot do it.  I thought his tirade at the chessboard was surprisingly good, but completely un-Spock...like, I am being totally serious here, it would have been far more in character if this was supposed to be a young Leonard McCoy.  If your Spock is also your McCoy, you are doing something goddamn wrong.

Also, I am totally befuddled by his confusion over why the Red Angel (can I just say how much I hate that name) chose him.  If it's from the future, then, logically, it's probably to do with something about your future, Spock, not about some unique quality or whatever.

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:42 PM, SourK said:

Also, I hate what they're doing with Spock, but shout-out to him for noticing that Michael turns everything into a big dramatic narrative where she always has the most important role. I'm not 100% sure the show knows how to course-correct from doing the same thing, but if this new writer's sticking around, then maybe?

I liked that too, but on the other hand, she's really only extrapolating logically from reality, at this point.  My eyes just about rolled out the door and down the street when Airiam said "This has always been all about you!" or whatever it was, because of fucking course it has.  (Although maybe the writers have found a second pole for the galaxy to revolve around; I literally can't believe that Cornwell said it was Pike, specificially, and not the Enterprise and its crew as a whole, that they wanted to save...)

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 9:46 AM, ahisma said:

ETA: Oh, yes, quibble three—I was thinking the other way around. Why didn't they beam in an additional security team to help Michael and Nhan with the fight?

Because, if you've noticed, the Spaceship Discovery has only exactly one security officer.  Nhan is it.  Last year it was Tyler.  But there's only ever one.

[Ottis]

On 3/15/2019 at 6:51 PM, Latverian Diplomat said:

I thought Spock was emoting an awful lot, but then he said he was angry and enjoying it, so I guess that's OK?

To be fair, he emoted quite a bit in The Menagerie.

I love Pike here and how the show is setting him up to be the captain Kirk held in so much respect.

Both of those tie-ins are a nice link to canon. If that dour security officer becomes No.1, and loses her mouthpiece, that's another tie in.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Ottis

[Diapason Untuned]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

To be fair, he emoted quite a bit in The Menagerie.

Yeah, Spock could often be more emotional than people would think.

[mattromano]

As a fountain of wisdom for all things Trek...I really dont know how to feel about the Spock - Burnham squabbling when I have no reference of what to expect. Spock never said "my sister is a handful" to Kirk on some long voyage. Even when Amanda and Spock's dad came to Enterprise no one mentioned a sister/daughter. We should expect a cataclysm on seas5 ep22 that wipes the Discovery and all her crew from existence. It will be a noble sacrifice performed by Pike to save "all sentient life"; leaving him beeping in a chair. Spock was back on Enterprise, so he lost his memories of her. 

[MissLucas]

12 minutes ago, mattromano said:

We should expect a cataclysm on seas5 ep22 that wipes the Discovery and all her crew from existence. It will be a noble sacrifice performed by Pike to save "all sentient life"; leaving him beeping in a chair. Spock was back on Enterprise, so he lost his memories of her. 

We know from the Short Trek 'Calypso' that the Discovery still exists a thousand years into the future. The crew could of course have met with a more thorough version of Thanos.

Maybe they will find an ending for the show that would explain Burnham's absence from classic ST. Or maybe we just have to go with Spock being so exhausted by her shenanigans that he performed some Vulcan mind-wipe to forget about her and Sarek and Amanda just play along?