S03.E16: Don't Take My Sunshine Away

[Ms Blue Jay]

20 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Did she actually hear the message in the car? I assumed she plugged in her phone at the house and then got to listen to the message then.

Maybe her phone died because she was listening to that damn message again and again, getting angrier and angrier each time and planning her revenge like Beatrix Kiddo 😂

[RachelKM]

43 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

It seemed childish of Randall to be unable  to tell his boss that his wife couldn't make it to the dinner. He shouldn't need Beth to come along and  impress them.  It's his job and she shouldn't have to have anything to do with it if she doesn't want to.

I forgot about my reaction to this part, but I agree. Randall's whole "the most impressive thing about me is you" speech was odd and off-putting to me.  It seemed codependent, insecure, and manipulative all at the same time.  I understand him wanting her there for moral support, but needing her is just a bit much.  And really, calling 3 hours in advance is sort of BS but it's acceptable if something happens at the last minute, especially when a guest lives so far away.  If Randall had been willing to compromise, he could have called his host sufficiently in advance to avoid being too rude.

Also, while it is rude to cancel at the last minute,  Randall's host was kind of a dick too.  His passive aggressive "we don't want a whole pork chop to go to waste" thing was crazy rude.  As a host, I would NEVER, even if I was put out by a cancellation, behave that way to a guest.. or at a dinner table at all.  It was one thing to offer to send it home, but to mention the waste part was rude. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by RachelKM

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 hours ago, Blackie said:

Randal and Beth's girls are old enough to be home alone for the 1 hour between parents coming and going,  Deja and Tess are old enough to help with dinner and they are definitely old enough to be doing the dishes!!!  Why does Randal have to come home and do dishes when there are 3 kids in the house!

LOL right???????   I'd be kicked out of the house if I refused to do dishes as a teen!  There was nothing my Mom hated more than seeing her teenagers relaxing on the couch when there was work to be done.  😁

Edited March 20, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[bichonblitz]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

He was late to her recital the night before but he couldn't possibly entertain the notion that she was running late because of traffic.

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Especially knowing she would be driving down during evening rush hour, from basically NYC. Do you know how many people are heading south from the city at that at time of day?

I think what really set him off was that she wasn't answering his calls or texts, not knowing at the time her phone was dead. If she answered to tell him she was in traffic would he have still been so pissed? I don't think he would have but he jumped to conclusions because she had already made it perfectly clear that she really wanted to have drinks with her co-workers instead. 

[abronfeld1]

2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I have an iPhone. I assume Beth has some sort of smartphone. 99% of the time if I ask someone for a charger, someone has one. It’s not a logic leap or something that’s absurd to think someone else would have, especially if you have a common phone.

Also, I don’t see what being a wife and a mother has to do with having a charged phone. Shit happens sometimes.

Looked like an android household to me.  We live in a divided country😄

[gameshowjunkie]

I understood why Randall's dinner should trump Beth's drinks. She had already made the commitment. But she had been very passive-aggressive earlier- the dishes comment(and yes, the girls should be doing them) and the comment about his coming in late and missing the director's remarks. And I totally got it - because he has been horrendous to her. But it's been building.

That phone message he left? Wow. 

Really liked Kate and Toby this episode. Hoping for the best with the baby.

Has Zoe had her tubes tied? If she knows she doesn't want kids that's probably best.

[albaniantv]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Right, several people have told me that.  I never meant to say my marriage was like Randall's and Beth's.  Although plenty of people move as often or more than the military.  My brother was an IBM manager and expected to move every two years.  His wife, a nurse, always expected to quit her job and go with him. He earned over six figures and she didn't.

What I meant by telling so much, no doubt too much, about my marriage was to show why my husband and I found the whole episode about Randall and Beth's marriage so different and interesting.  It's  the way their lives are lived so much in each other's pockets that seems so  odd and horribly smothering to us. I'm not saying their marriage should be like ours, I'm saying it's interesting to us because it's so different.  We never expected to be part of the other person's job.   We don't expect the other one to share our hobbies or come along to watch us do them.  We can go entire days without phoning or texting each other.  It seems childish to us that Beth would require her husband to come along to the recital and cheer her teaching efforts.  It seemed childish of Randall to be unable  to tell his boss that his wife couldn't make it to the dinner. He shouldn't need Beth to come along and  impress them.  It's his job and she shouldn't have to have anything to do with it if she doesn't want to.

I'm not taking sides between Beth and Randall, I think they're both being selfish and too dependent on the other one.

Yes, I agree they are both smothering and, at the same time, childish or maybe just too insecure to let their bosses know that sometimes they will be putting their spouses or families first. By insecure, I mean that in both cases their jobs are new and quite precious to them and they haven't yet been clear about where their work/home boundaries are. Not something to resolve or even rehearse on cell phones!!

[3 is enough]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Also, while it is rude to cancel at the last minute,  Randall's host was kind of a dick too.  His passive aggressive "we don't want a whole pork chop to go to waste" thing was crazy rude.  As a host, I would NEVER, even if I was put out by a cancellation, behave that way to a guest.. or at a dinner table at all.  It was one thing to offer to send it home, but to mention the waste part was rude. 

Yes, that was just an odd thing to say.

[Neurochick]

22 hours ago, CatsAndMoreCats said:

I am so pissed at Randall right now.  What happened to my over-achieving, hopelessly endearing Randall from Season One?  Some things should not be messed with.  Beth and Randall's solid marriage is one of those things imho.  😢

I agree, but sometimes this happens when change happens in life;  it's also the reason for self restraint; and like they say in AA "nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen."  Randall should have told the people, "My wife teaches ballet."  That would have been a great conversation.  And Randall, when Beth didn't answer her phone, the first thing I thought of was, "she's probably driving."

But the main problem with Beth and Randall is that neither one of them wanted the other one to take the job they have.  Both of them need to understand that to the other one, their job IS important.

Kevin needs to stay sober for awhile before he decides what he wants in life, kids or no kids.  I remember on "Sex and the City" when Charlotte was married to a very wealthy man with an overbearing mother.  They couldn't have kids together and his mother didn't want them to adopt; but Charlotte really wanted children.  Her husband said something to her like, "it's not enough for it to be just us?" and Charlotte said no.  Neither person was wrong, they just wanted different things.

I didn't mind seeing Toby in the hospital because we're only seeing him when he's there.  

Young Rebecca really looked like Mandy Moore.

ETA:  Here's how I feel; though I don't always like Beth, historically women have been the ones who sacrificed for others so they could be okay.  It upset me when Randall told Beth to "grow the hell up" as if Beth is a child and Randall is her father.  I wonder though if Beth has ever told Randall just what dance means to her.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Neurochick

[Mystery]

22 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's a decision Kevin may come to regret down the line and no way does it not blow up, but right now, Kevin DOES need stability and I think the fear in not having someone hurts too much...along with Sophie pointing out that everything works out for him.

I think that Kevin knows he needs Zoe to help him get sober again. I don't think he's thought any further than that. 

12 hours ago, Blackie said:

Randal and Beth's girls are old enough to be home alone for the 1 hour between parents coming and going,  Deja and Tess are old enough to help with dinner and they are definitely old enough to be doing the dishes!!!  Why does Randal have to come home and do dishes when there are 3 kids in the house!

And the laundry! The older girls, at least, are old enough to at least be doing their own laundry, if not everyone's (and I do think they're old enough to do everyone's). And why does Randall have to be the one to ask Annie questions? Either of the other girls could have done that. They need a regular sitter, not some wonder woman who can deal with the specific issues (what did Randall say, they need someone who can deal with a "recently out teenager?" Pearsons be crazy.)

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Because the hostess has to get up from the already in progress dinner to show you where you can charge your phone.  What's wrong with sitting through a meal with a dead phone? 

The hostess was already getting up to show Beth to the bathroom, so it didn't seem bad to me. 

In my opinion, Beth heard the message while she was stuck in traffic. She only talked about her phone dying because that explained why she didn't text him that she was being delayed. 

[buckboard]

6 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Why is that rude? I’ve done that hundreds of times. No need to sit somewhere with a dead phone when it could be charging as I’m eating.

I agree, PEPSINGER.  For everyone who is upset that Beth drove down with a dead phone, a) she may not have realized it was dead until she was on the road.  b) She charged it at the councilman's home because she was driving HOME alone after dinner and any of the problems that people were worried about happening on her trip down -- e.g., having an accident, needing to hear from the girls -- could have occurred on the trip home.

Of course, if the girls had an emergency and couldn't reach her, they could have called their father.  



 

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, Mystery said:

In my opinion, Beth heard the message while she was stuck in traffic. She only talked about her phone dying because that explained why she didn't text him that she was being delayed. 

Then what would be the real reason for that?  Why wouldn't she just text or call him while sitting in traffic?

[nlkm9]

5 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I have an iPhone. I assume Beth has some sort of smartphone. 99% of the time if I ask someone for a charger, someone has one. It’s not a logic leap or something that’s absurd to think someone else would have, especially if you have a common phone.

Also, I don’t see what being a wife and a mother has to do with having a charged phone. Shit happens sometimes.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

And Randall, when Beth didn't answer her phone, the first thing I thought of was, "she's probably driving."

Me, too. I don't answer the phone when I'm driving. Doubly so in heavy traffic.

[nlkm9]

I have an iPhone and on several biz trips have realized i didn’t pack the charger and have not been able to find one to borrow. In the context of this show, you have a couple with opposite schedules, the whiteboard from hell, 3 kids home , hubby at a political dinner and wife who is a super control freak driving 3 hours at nite by herself with a dead phone- i don’t buy it. Yeah shit happens but Beth would never allow that. Jmho. Plot contrivance 100% . I still think she went to the dinner  at her work too

Edited March 21, 2019 by nlkm9
Missed

[theatremouse]

8 hours ago, Sharyn said:

His football career was ended prematurely with an injury.  He had the meltdown during a scene on his sitcom and lost his job.  He screwed up big time with Sophie multiple times.  He became an addict.  He relapsed.  Yes, of course Kevin is charming and handsome but his life hasn't been a fairy tale by any means.

When she was saying he always got what he wanted, she was saying it in the context of the "you've never had to make the choice". Sure those things happened to him, and his life wasn't perfect. But he didn't have a moment where he had to choose between football and acting. He got injured. Life chose for him.  It was in the times where he would've had to make a choice he just got what he wanted. That's what she was saying. But now with competing desires, he actually has to choose instead of just fucking around until someone else or something else chose for him.

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

If Randall has been driving back and forth from Philly to northern New Jersey, he will have some kind of app on his phone to alert him to major accidents--Google maps does this, Waze, etc.  He easily could have checked his phone before calling and texting Beth constantly.  His immediate reaction was that Beth blew him off and he did not waver on this.  This is a very human reaction.  

Randall really bugged me even before he left the message because he immediately assumed she was blowing him off. Even if there were anxiety about being ditched, if someone is making a 2-ish hour drive in rush hour and they are late, first, check traffic on your own damn phone while you're sitting there parked. It doesn't even matter if he suspected an accident on her way. Volume of cars can make a delay. He knows that from his own commuting. Check to see how terrible the traffic is. It's bad? She's probably sitting in it. If there is an accident causing the traffic, then you worry it's her. And it's THAT worry that should prevent you from leaving a horrible voicemail that you might regret. He was being a self-absorbed dumbass sitting there parked waiting and not looking to see, oh hey, she's probably sitting in that big red line that is the freeway. 

And even though my car has fancy bluetooth whatever, I do not call or text while driving, even if I could use 100% voice commands to do it. He was just so idiotic. He deserves the consequences for being that dumb.

[tennisgurl]

Its like the writers realized that Randall had so few flaws compared to his siblings, so they decided to take his established, more sympathetic to the audience flaws, like his strong emotions and his tendency to overwork and his savior complex and issues with his heritage and family, and took them up to new, less likable extremes so he could have his own asshole moments like every other character. But they have really been going hard on the asshole stuff lately!

Edited March 21, 2019 by tennisgurl

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its like the writers realized that Randall had so few flaws compared to his siblings, so they decided to take his established, more sympathetic to the audience flaws, like his strong emotions and his tendency to overwork and his savior complex and issues with his heritage and family, and took them up to new, less likable extremes so he could have his own asshole moments like every other character. But they have really been going hard on the asshole stuff lately!

Well Kevin called him out on this last season during the therapy episode and said while Randall is bringing in his biological father to live with him and then a foster daughter, he’s losing sight of his daughter and then Randall got angry because he assumed that this was Kevin’s way of deflecting that Tess could have gotten hurt while Kevin was drinking and driving but I don’t think it was, I think Kevin was making a point; Randall always acts and doesn’t think about the consequences. 

[3 is enough]

52 minutes ago, Katy M said:

1 hour ago, Mystery said:

In my opinion, Beth heard the message while she was stuck in traffic. She only talked about her phone dying because that explained why she didn't text him that she was being delayed. 

Then what would be the real reason for that?  Why wouldn't she just text or call him while sitting in traffic?

Because she got the horrible message while she was stuck in traffic trying to get to the dinner as she had promised? The message where he immediately assumed she had bailed on him?  So she decided to let him go on believing that?  If that was the case, Randall is lucky she didn't just turn around and go home.  

Edited March 21, 2019 by 3 is enough

[Bringonthedrama]

56 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

so they decided to take his established, more sympathetic to the audience flaws, like his strong emotions and his tendency to overwork and his savior complex and issues with his heritage and family, and took them up to new, less likable extremes so he could have his own asshole moments 

Randall was capable of having moments in the past. It seems like the writing has made the case that William's death triggered these less likable extremes - Randall was unable to mourn and then move forward in life in a healthy way.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:02 PM, gameshowjunkie said:

Has Zoe had her tubes tied? If she knows she doesn't want kids that's probably best.

I've been on birth control for 20 years and I know other women who are in the same boat.   I know full well it does not work for every woman, but it works for some of us.  I don't think tying tubes is necessarily always the answer!

I guess it's because I've been single for so long, but I don't understand Randall needing Beth at that dinner.  People live independent lives.  And when they can't, like going to a dinner alone, it kind of skeeves me out.  There are so many single people.  Randall's already won the political campaign.  So I honestly don't get why Beth needed to be there to the point where he acted like a spoiled petulant brat of a child.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ohmo]

15 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

The Toby-Gavin conversation was the best scene of the show. Great acting, talented actors.

Apparently, I'm the only one who watched Scorpion in this thread because I got a kick out of this scene.  The actor who played Gavin played Toby on Scorpion, so Toby was talking to Toby.

While I agree that Randall's message to Beth was really bad, I had another though in regard to Randall and Beth's work situations.  My father was in corporate life for many years, and my mother went to numerous corporate functions with him.  There were certain levels of functions.  Drinks were very casual, and if my father went, my mom usually didn't go.  However, if it were a dinner party like the one shown, then the unspoken expectation was that spouses were expected to attend.  If it were an out-of-town conference, then executive spouses definitely attended.

I didn't like what Randall said about asking for one thing or the phone message that he left Beth, but I could see the point about the dinner.  The writers are writing it to create conflict between Beth and Randall, but drinks are kind of below dinner party in the hierarchy that I grew up with.  It would be important for Beth to be there.  Now, if Randall were a considerate husband, drinks usually happen more often, so he should have offered to be available for the next time for drinks so that Beth could go and he'd watch the kids.

I did think Beth's comment about the cheesecake was unnecessarily catty and harsh.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Ohmo

[MBayGal]

11 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

However she found out about the message Randall left, I am disappointed that TPTB didn't show her listening to it on screen.

But that would spoil our “shock” when finding out she had heard it.

 I can imagine, considering how frazzled her life must be, leaving the charger at home somehow, then her phone dying shortly before she arrived — just before Randall’s super-rude message.  Wanting to make sure there were no messages from home before she sat down to eat, she took a quick look for texts and voicemails as soon as it had a charge, saw something from Randall, and listened to it.  

My husband is addicted to Waze and other GPS, and said that such apps really drain battery.  I assume Beth hasn’t been driving alone to wherever Randall’s job is, much less at night in rush hour traffic, nor has she ever been to the “boss’s” house, so she probably had a GPS app running during the drive.  So, easy to drain her battery, IMHO.

Edited March 21, 2019 by MBayGal
another fascinating thought to add 😉

[bros402]

20 hours ago, Jillybean said:

There was a sign shown with the name of a middle school. 

Hm

15 hours ago, preeya said:

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

Yes. I was born at 25 weeks, I was 1 lb 8 oz, that was in 1990. I had either a 3% or a 15% chance to survive - I forget which - one was the chance the survive, the other was to not have a brain bleed.

Baby Jack is 28 weeks and 2 lb 8 oz - with a preemie, you want them to be above 2 lbs (or older than 26 weeks), so they aren't a micro preemie - survival stats for micro preemies like I was... are less good.

With me, my parents said that almost every time they took blood, they had to do a transfusion because of how small I was - I was 12 inches long at birth.

8 hours ago, After7Only said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Zoe gets pregnant, but I think she'll keep the baby.  I took Sophie's "You always get what you want" to mean choose Zoe and you will charm her way until having your kids.  

Kevin getting denied for once would be so satisfying though


Also, as an aside, I *totally* thought this was the season finale - dunno why, but it seemed like it.

Edited March 21, 2019 by bros402

[LoveLeigh]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The writers are acting like they're super jealous of Sterling K. Brown that we all fell so hard in love with him in Season 1 and now they're trying to ruin it.

Maybe. But I think they are just making him look bipolar. So many of the characters just no longer seem right. Beth also has a bipolar feel to her with regard to her kids. And I am not liking Kevin any more. 

For me, something changed with this show. I don't want to say it is no longer "heartwarming" but it has a real weird angry feel to it now. I think Jack kept the balance. I know he is still around in the episodes, but this show for me changed lanes. I don't like the present day plots: I am not interested in the "political Randall" story line, I don't like the "Beth the dancer" story line (although I appreciate her having aspirations) and I hate to admit I am not interested in Kate.

I think this series thrived best when the scenes were with the kids in the past when Jack was alive. Jack had charisma and grounded this show. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by DakotaLavender
typos

[debraran]

53 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Maybe. But I think they are just making him look bipolar. So many of the characters just no longer seem right. Beth also has a bipolar feel to her with regard to her kids. And I am not liking Kevin any more. 

For me, something changed with this show. I don't want to say it is no longer "heartwarming" but it has a real weird angry feel to it now. I think Jack kept the balance. I know he is still around in the episodes, but this show for me changed lanes. I don't like the present day plots: I am not interested in the "political Randall" story line, I don't like the "Beth the dancer" story line (although I appreciate her having aspirations) and I hate to admit I am not interested in Kate.

I think this series thrived best when the scenes were with the kids in the past when Jack was alive. Jack had charisma and grounded this show. 

I was getting tried of the "savior" Jack, the perfect Jack and I'm glad more came out about him, but the show is doing things in clumps. All of a sudden Randall is a huge jerk, Beth is needy (although I like her gumption) and his kids are helpless. Rebecca is still somewhat of a wimp with Miguel and maybe it's the cardigan, frump look, but she needs to sparkle a little. For petes sake, Jack has been gone decades, I want to see scenes when she is happy and laughing more and don't rush to some dementia plot line. That's so overused and a cop out to making her stronger and her own woman, she can't remember anything but the past.  I am glad they are moving, it's easier to have her closer for scenes with Kate, but I hope she has some couple time with Miguel.

My favorite episode this season was the Nicky/Kevin episode when Kevin went back for him (and that hand/shoulder scene) and I hope for more. That was well done, showed everyone at their best and worst and gave depth to the big 3. Kevin shined. I hope for more of that.

I know they will do a decent job showing Jack go through the roller coaster of being a preemie, touching scenes with the Rebecca and the others meeting little Jack and some scary episodes but predictable . Beth and Randall aren't "real" to me anymore, too much lack of communication and silly story lines. I do feel for Beth though, living with someone like Randall is exhausting and I wonder after 2 breakdowns, if he ever checks in with anyone anymore?

[sunshine23]

On 3/19/2019 at 9:59 PM, Armchair Critic said:

Randall you are an ass. Beth's meeting meant a lot to her too but you didn't consider that.

I understand bonding with your child and being there for Kate but doesn't Toby have to go to a job? Their son will be in the hospital for months unfortunately.

I don't think Kevin is in a good place right now to be choosing Zoey over having kids, if I were her I would be leery that down the line he will want them.

Baby Jack will be home before you know it based on the lack of other realities, such as Kate having had a C-section but sitting up and walking with no problem immediately after. As for Toby, I never really knew what he did but a lot of companies have paternatiy leave now and/or allow you to take sick time for children.

I'm going to be in the minority here, but I don't feel as sorry for Beth, or as angry at Randall for what's going on. Beth had to have known the time commitment Randall's position was going to take. Just the driving alone... I may have thought the whole idea was stupid from the beginning and I empathize with her about having supported the family for all those years, but if Beth didn't say anything then, why is she suddenly complaining now? The fact that she's suddenly this amazing dance teacher, lack of consistent dance training storyline notwithstanding, she is a DANCE TEACHER. Dance teachers are not paid a lot, and as for her meeting, it was drinks. I hardly think her boss would care that she missed it, especially if for a business dinner or prior plans. If Beth's new job were equal to her last one as far as responsibilities and time commitment, etc. I would agree with her argument, but not with this. Despite Randall coming of like a petulant child with the message on Beth's phone, it is interesting to see he is less than perfect.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I graduated in 96 and our schools were MOSTLY K-5, 6-8, 9-12.  Where I lived Middle school was 6-8 vs Jr. High was 7-9.  and my community mostly had middle schools but had like one district that had a junior high..

My experience has been the same: junior high is 7-9 and middle school is 6-8.

8 hours ago, buckboard said:

I agree, PEPSINGER.  For everyone who is upset that Beth drove down with a dead phone, a) she may not have realized it was dead until she was on the road.  b) She charged it at the councilman's home because she was driving HOME alone after dinner and any of the problems that people were worried about happening on her trip down -- e.g., having an accident, needing to hear from the girls -- could have occurred on the trip home.

I assumed that Beth had never been to this guy's house before so she was using google maps or some other app for directions. Even if her phone was fully charged when she got in the car (which is unlikely since her class finished at 5pm), two hours with a map app open could kill her battery.

I find it hilarious that last week when I said that it was Randall's responsibility to have his own phone charger instead of trying to commandeer Kevin's, people were defending him and had all kinds of excuses as to why Randall didn't have a charger with him, yet this week people are giving Beth shit for not having a charger with her.

5 minutes ago, sunshine23 said:

Dance teachers are not paid a lot, and as for her meeting, it was drinks. I hardly think her boss would care that she missed it, especially if for a business dinner or prior plans. If Beth's new job were equal to her last one as far as responsibilities and time commitment, etc. I would agree with her argument, but not with this.

How much a person gets paid and how much responsibility they have at work should not be an indication of how much respect or commitment they have to their jobs (or how much respect they get for their job). Just because Beth doesn't get paid as much to teach dance as Randall gets for his current job doesn't make her job any less important.

As for it was" just drinks" for Beth, then by the same token it was "just dinner" for Randall. The difference is that Beth missing drinks meant she did not have the opportunity to interact with her boss and coworkers as they discussed the future of the studio (which is what the boss said it was for), but Randall should be able to schmooze his boss at dinner without Beth's presence. It's not 1955 anymore. The little woman doesn't need to be by her man's side. Randall's boss also invited them pretty last minute (the day before) so there would have been nothing wrong with saying she had a prior commitment and couldn't attend on such short notice.

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Because she got the horrible message while she was stuck in traffic trying to get to the dinner as she had promised? The message where he immediately assumed she had bailed on him?  So she decided to let him go on believing that?  If that was the case, Randall is lucky she didn't just turn around and go home.  

That's what I'm not understanding.  If I had got that message, I just wouldn't have showed up.  Or, I would have showed up and played that message for everyone else to hear and turned around and walked out, which I admit would be really childish, but he did tell her to grow up after all.  

[GodsBeloved]

9 hours ago, theatremouse said:

When she was saying he always got what he wanted, she was saying it in the context of the "you've never had to make the choice". Sure those things happened to him, and his life wasn't perfect. But he didn't have a moment where he had to choose between football and acting. He got injured. Life chose for him.  It was in the times where he would've had to make a choice he just got what he wanted. That's what she was saying. But now with competing desires, he actually has to choose instead of just fucking around until someone else or something else chose for him.

Great point. I hadn't thought it out like this so I'm glad you did 🙂

I'm still reeling from Beth and Randall. The voicemail scene is so uncomfortable for me to watch.

Even thought I'm still pissed at Randall, I did like the fact that he didn't go too his office to sleep and came home. It probably was best not to let Beth fester overnight and instead just deal with it head on.

And when Beth told him to close the door, I really appreciated that too. As someone who grew up with fighting parents, I like that they want to remove their fighting as far away from the girls as they can.

[GodsBeloved]

35 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That's what I'm not understanding.  If I had got that message, I just wouldn't have showed up.  Or, I would have showed up and played that message for everyone else to hear and turned around and walked out, which I admit would be really childish, but he did tell her to grow up after all.  

Ouch!! LOL

[alexvillage]

22 hours ago, Marci said:

The scene where Toby asks Kate how she can smile and sing, when all he sees are tubes...etc.  ?  Kate’s response was not written by a mother.  A mother wouldn’t say, I see us.  A mother would say, I see our baby who needs me to protect him fiercely.  And that means stomping on and crushing every fear I have for him, so that all he feels is my unstoppable love for him.  So that all he senses is my unshakeable confidence that I will care for him as best as I can, and my best is damn good.

That's a big generalization.

21 hours ago, preeya said:

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

Yes. I don't know any statistics but I know a  young adult who was born with half the weight the show's baby. He was a small skinny child but when he hit puberty he shot up and today he is probably taller than the average (even tough his parents are average to short - but grandfather was tall).

Picking up n this tough, I think that Kate has been a patient in the hospital for longer than advised. Six days is a lot, usually they want you away from all that as soon as possible. People I know who had c-sections and preemies didn't say that long. The writers didn't hint at any complications that would require Kate to stay that long either.

My take on how awful Randall was is that he is being consistent. As a child he was an overachiever, he went to the library to study, during a school dance, and ignored the girl who asked him to the dance. What he did to Beth is a mirror of his younger self. Sowing up at the recital was how he sees his function and the flowers was a sweet gesture, but also a way to say: See how caring I am, now your turn. Then he seems to demand the same type of commitment from Beth, to show up at his dinner. I think this is kind of silly, his overreaction to her not being there. Just walk in and say she had a job thing maybe she is late, maybe she won't make it, let's eat! If done well, this can be an interesting story to follow, how his marriage falls apart and how he deals with his need to be in control and succeed at everything. I think for "control freaks" like Randall, a marriage ending is a failure and they cannot have that.

Nitpick: "seven pirouettes starting with one pile". As a former dancer, that line was really weird. Or they have a super talented dancer. Would love to see that.

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I find it hilarious that last week when I said that it was Randall's responsibility to have his own phone charger instead of trying to commandeer Kevin's, people were defending him and had all kinds of excuses as to why Randall didn't have a charger with him, yet this week people are giving Beth shit for not having a charger with her.

Let’s call it what it is. It is a double standard. Somehow, Beth is such a “super control freak” (I’m not even gonna get into how I believe that assumption is out of nowhere. If anyone is a control freak in that family it’s Randall.) that it’s completely unfathomable that she could leave her charger at home while Randall receives any and all latitude. 

On another note, I deeply disagree with the idea that Randall and Beth are selfish because they want to live their dreams and need to put their kids first. Color me wacky, but I see nothing admirable about a parent choosing not to follow their dream because they have kids. IMO, that teaches your kids that having kids of their   own will derail their dreams, so they shouldn’t have any. It is one hundred percent possible to live your dreams while having kids. Kids gain nothing from seeing mommy and daddy bitter and resentful because for some reason the parents believed that they couldn’t follow their dreams because they had kids. Tailor your dreams, sure, but they don’t belong in the trash.

Edited March 21, 2019 by PepSinger

[Pallas]

Randall parked outside the City Council President's house was Randall the foundling, abandoned on the ground outside the fire station, completely vulnerable to all the world. Randall watching his colleagues and their spouses casually head on in, was Randall the schoolboy, left to fend for himself among regular people: socially attuned; raised by their own parents; the children of a community that looked like them and took no special notice of them. 

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, buckboard said:

Of course, if the girls had an emergency and couldn't reach her, they could have called their father.  



 

Right there.  That's what I'm talking about and why I thought it was unnecessary for Beth to bother the hostess with what amounts to a personal chore that could have waited until she got home.

As someone who doesn't own a cell phone and was recently in one of those accidents,( for which all my friends said I should have one) and didn't need one at all, I think people like Beth have bought into the phone company's scare tactics of sales.  She can make it home without one.  Having one at the ever  ready is why Randall said things that he would never have said if he had, had a few minutes to calm down before he got home.  The Pearson kids, along with how to do laundry and dishes, should have been taught to call 911 in an emergency (parents can't stop bleeding over the phone) and to wait till the parents get home for non-emergencies. These phones have turned people into helpless babies who can't go to store and make a milk decision without a conference call

43 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

On another note, I deeply disagree with the idea that Randall and Beth are selfish because they want to live their dreams and need to put their kids first. Color me wacky, but I see nothing admirable about a parent choosing not to follow their dream because they have kids. IMO, that teaches your kids that having kids of their   own will derail their dreams, so they shouldn’t have any. It is one hundred percent possible to live your dreams while having kids. Kids gain nothing from seeing mommy and daddy bitter and resentful because for some reason the parents believed that they couldn’t follow their dreams because they had kids. Tailor your dreams, sure, but they don’t belong in the trash. 

It is possible to delay your own dreams for the sake of your children without being bitter and resentful over it. In fact, for some people, The Dream is to raise happy healthy children. Kids don't gain much by growing up with parents who are never home because they're traveling for their dream job or going to college at night while the kids have to stay home alone.  If parents aren't ready to put the needs of their children first for a few years maybe they shouldn't have any.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've been on birth control for 20 years and I know other women who are in the same boat.  I honestly love it.  I've tried to give it up and I just can't because I love what it does to my body and my period, etc.  I know full well it does not work for every woman, but it works for some of us.  I don't think tying tubes is necessarily always the answer!

I guess it's because I've been alone for so long, but I don't understand Randall needing Beth at that dinner.  People live independent lives.  And when they can't, like going to a dinner alone, it kind of skeeves me out.  There are so many single people.  Randall's already won the political campaign.  So I honestly don't get why Beth needed to be there to the point where he acted like a spoiled petulant brat of a child.

Not a Beth fan but agree 100%. I have had many business dinners and only once have insisted on taking hubby when my boss specifically asked if he could meet him. 

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its like the writers realized that Randall had so few flaws compared to his siblings, so they decided to take his established, more sympathetic to the audience flaws, like his strong emotions and his tendency to overwork and his savior complex and issues with his heritage and family, and took them up to new, less likable extremes so he could have his own asshole moments like every other character. But they have really been going hard on the asshole stuff lately!

I've known people who are very nice, when things go their way.  As soon as life throws a curve ball at them, they change.  It's not that they're bad people, it's just that life can make good people do bad things:  Randall quit his job, Beth lost her job, Randall ran for office and won, Beth became a dance teacher.  The last two happened in rapid succession.  Suddenly Randall's a politician and Beth is a dance teacher.  Both of them are taking on brand new roles at the same time.   

And I have to admit, if I didn't know how important dance was to Beth, I would think her job a vanity project, as Randall said, "teaching housewives how to twirl."  

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

And I have to admit, if I didn't know how important dance was to Beth, I would think her job a vanity project, as Randall said, "teaching housewives how to twirl."  

But, would you say it?  And, I think Beth has shown Randall that it's important to her.

[Tikichick]

17 hours ago, debbie311 said:

Randall and Beth need to get into marriage counseling ASAP.  If you read Michelle Obama's book, Becoming, she wrote a lot about how his going into politics put a real strain on their marriage, she did not feel he was pulling his weight, etc. and that led them to counseling.  I wonder sometimes if the writers of This Is Us are trying to pattern Beth/Randall's marriage to the Obamas.  One big difference, though, is that Michelle Obama said that Barack was ALWAYS very supportive of whatever she wanted to do career-wise.

There's no reason why the two older girls can't help with the dishes, or even make their own lunches.  Things have changed; Beth and Randall can't keep life as it was for the kids and that's what they're trying to do.  Deja calling Randall to ask where her permission slip was (in her backpack) for example.  She's old enough to start being responsible for things like that herself, making sure she has what she needs before she leaves for school.

But, hey, it's a TV show and they want to make it as dramatic as possible.  For me though, if it starts to feel too uncomfortable to watch, I won't want to.  I don't like seeing people make asses of themselves week after week.

I absolutely agree the girls are absolutely capable of being responsible for some chores.  As far as Deja, I would agree with you if they had raised Deja.  Given her upbringing it has to be remembered Deja actually has special needs -- despite the fact she's now in a safe and loving home, appears to be quite old enough to manage the permission slip issue without assistance and is quite bright.  Deja revealed her need to us in the audience when she told Randall how much she loved and appreciated being picked up from school.  It's feeding a deep need for her and helping to heal a wound.

[Tikichick]

35 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I've known people who are very nice, when things go their way.  As soon as life throws a curve ball at them, they change.  It's not that they're bad people, it's just that life can make good people do bad things:  Randall quit his job, Beth lost her job, Randall ran for office and won, Beth became a dance teacher.  The last two happened in rapid succession.  Suddenly Randall's a politician and Beth is a dance teacher.  Both of them are taking on brand new roles at the same time.   

And I have to admit, if I didn't know how important dance was to Beth, I would think her job a vanity project, as Randall said, "teaching housewives how to twirl."  

Just because we in the audience just became aware of Beth's passion for dance and the reasons she was forced to abandon it doesn't mean that Randall was in the dark about what dance means to her.  I find it impossible to believe that with the relationship they've had and all the years they've been married she hasn't shared that with him.

We have to remember that we've seen Beth not only put up with, but genuinely celebrate Thanksgiving Randall's obsessive way because she understands it has deep meaning for him.  She also supported him not only bringing his newly found and unfamiliar biological father with an addiction past into their home to live with their family, but she also loved and took care of William and had zero objection when Randall determined to take William back to Memphis to fulfill a wish he knew was meaningful to William. 

The idea that Randall doesn't know Beth has a deep passion for dance and it would be so meaningless to him that he would demean it and it would be understandable and acceptable is beyond incredible. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Randall parked outside the City Council President's house was Randall the foundling, abandoned on the ground outside the fire station, completely vulnerable to all the world. Randall watching his colleagues and their spouses casually head on in, was Randall the schoolboy, left to fend for himself among regular people: socially attuned; raised by their own parents; raised within a community that looked like them and took no special notice of them. 

Yes, adult Randall has come across at times as socially awkward, and he outright said that Beth would be the best thing he could bring to the dinner. She has probably played the role of the social buffer many times.

7 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Just because we in the audience just became aware of Beth's passion for dance and the reasons she was forced to abandon it doesn't mean that Randall was in the dark about what dance means to her.  I find it impossible to believe that with the relationship they've had and all the years they've been married she hasn't shared that with him.

We have to remember that we've seen Beth not only put up with, but genuinely celebrate Thanksgiving Randall's obsessive way because she understands it has deep meaning for him.  She also supported him not only bringing his newly found and unfamiliar biological father with an addiction past into their home to live with their family, but she also loved and took care of William and had zero objection when Randall determined to take William back to Memphis to fulfill a wish he knew was meaningful to William. 

The idea that Randall doesn't know Beth has a deep passion for dance and it would be so meaningless to him that he would demean it and it would be understandable and acceptable is beyond incredible. 

We saw him react supportively and enthusiastically when she came back from visiting her mother and declared what she wanted to do -- he was all in. He knows. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

That's what I'm not understanding.  If I had got that message, I just wouldn't have showed up.  Or, I would have showed up and played that message for everyone else to hear and turned around and walked out, which I admit would be really childish, but he did tell her to grow up after all.  

Well, every time Randall called, it seemed to go straight to voicemail. That's why I believe her phone was dead and that's why I think she only got the message once she started charging her phone at the dinner party. She wouldn't have turned off her phone while driving, so that's why I lean toward her not having gotten the message until she got there. Even if she did get the message, he called when she was already a couple of hours into her drive. 

I do think the show is overcompensating to show Randall as a true Pearson (kind of awful at times). They showed it heavily with Kevin in season 1. Kate hasn't been that much better. Rebecca was shown to make some super bad choices in season 1. I just see this as Randall's turn...although I agree that they may be going overboard because, at the moment, I think Beth/Randall have a lot of unresolved issues and I would not be surprised if this season ends with them deciding to separate. I doubt the separation would turn into a divorce (they know the couple is popular enough and people would rage if they divorced NOW, especially after how Rebecca/Jack ended) but I think their arc is heading in to them going through some serious trouble. 

Both Randall and Beth need to change a little in their marriage. Beth needs to be more assertive and actually stand up for herself when she disagrees with Randall. Randall needs to be less selfish. I still think politics isn't something he should be doing, but he needs to figure out if his new career path is worth sacrificing his family for. Both need to decide on how they're going to fix their marriage. Essentially, they need to hash out all of their issues. Maybe not all at once, but they need marriage counselling, for sure. Their issues have likely been bubbling for years. I mean, I remember pointing out as early as the pilot in how Randall sprung something really huge on his family without consulting them. He needs to consult his entire family before diving in on anything. He's a perfectionist, but even a perfectionist has their flaws, and Randall's flaws are as clear as day. 

Basically, the two just need to communicate better on major life changes. They both need to stop rushing in to things and learn to be partners again. 

[happykitteh]

Randall and Beth were the only two characters I liked on this show (and Miguel) but this season they're now both as annoying as the others. I think Beth was dead wrong for trying to cancel out on Randall's dinner at the last minute. It has nothing to do with the woman's job coming second to the man's, it's about living up to your word, your commitment, and good manners. You don't commit to be at an important dinner with your spouse then cancel last minute because your coworkers want to get drinks. If there was to be an "important discussion" at Beth's drinking party her bosses should have scheduled it with more notice. I'd have no issue with Beth telling Randall she couldn't attend his dinner if her meeting was scheduled FIRST but in this case, nope, I'm on Randall's side. Randall shouldn't have left such a hateful vm but I understand his frustration.

Seems to me like Beth is doing everything in her power to screw up Randall's job. I think she's jealous he found something he felt passionate about while she was fired from a job she loved. She pouted about him running for office and insisted he drop out when Randall's campaign manager didn't kiss her ass and do things her way. Now she suddenly decides it's HER time to "follow her dream" because she relived a childhood memory? Get over yourself. Let Randall do his councilman thing and when that's over THEN it'll be your turn.

They're both acting like spoiled entitled brats thinking they can take lower paying "I'm Following My Passion" jobs and keep the same high end lifestyle. Choices must be made. If you want to do a low paying dream job your going to have to sell your Mercedes, sell your big house, move to a less tony neighborhood and live on less. If the excuse is not wanting to uproot the kids then y'all need to put them first, keep your higher paying jobs and pursue your "dreams" after they're grown. You can't have it all despite what you've been told.

Edited March 21, 2019 by happykitteh

[Katy M]

18 hours ago, debbie311 said:

There's no reason why the two older girls can't help with the dishes, or even make their own lunches.  Things have changed; Beth and Randall can't keep life as it was for the kids and that's what they're trying to do.  Deja calling Randall to ask where her permission slip was (in her backpack) for example.  She's old enough to start being responsible for things like that herself, making sure she has what she needs before she leaves for school.

Also would have made more sense if that were Tessa, since Deja hasn't been babied all her life.  She had to be very independent when she lived with mom and foster parents.  Especially that one guy that hit them.  I doubt he was bending over backwards helicopter parenting her.

[Conotocarious]

I’d also note it was sloppy form on the writers’ part to shoehorn in this love of dance which had literally never even been mentioned until The latter half of this season. It seems thrown in for conflict and it really shows.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, every time Randall called, it seemed to go straight to voicemail. That's why I believe her phone was dead and that's why I think she only got the message once she started charging her phone at the dinner party. She wouldn't have turned off her phone while driving, so that's why I lean toward her not having gotten the message until she got there. Even if she did get the message, he called when she was already a couple of hours into her drive. 

That's what I mean. I don't understand the arguments that she was lying about her phone being dead.  Why wouldn't she have texted before she was so late that Randall was calling, if her phone was perfectly fine.  Why would she not pick up the phone when Randall called, but then listen to his message.  All just for some "gotcha" moment.  Makes no sense to me.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, happykitteh said:

Randall and Beth we're the only two characters I liked on this show (and Miguel) but this season they're now both as annoying as the others. I think Beth was dead wrong for trying to cancel out on Randall's dinner at the last minute. It has nothing to do with the woman's job coming second to the man's, it's about living up to your word, your commitment, and good manners. You don't commit to be at an important dinner with your spouse then cancel last minute because your coworkers want to get drinks. If there was to be an "important discussion" at Beth's drinking party her bosses should have scheduled it with more notice. I'd have no issue with Beth telling Randall she couldn't attend his dinner if her meeting was scheduled FIRST but in this case, nope, I'm on Randall's side. Randall shouldn't have left such a hateful vm but I understand his frustration.

I completely agree.  Prior plans, no matter what they are, shouldn't be cancelled unless there is an emergency.  And, drinks with coworkers don't count as an emergency. 

[happykitteh]

Doesn't Beth have a car charger for her phone? 

[Tikichick]

Ordinarily I'd be a huge proponent of honoring a commitment unless there's an emergency.  Then I realize that it has been Randall's pattern since childhood that everything in his head is an emergency to him.  We saw that play out in this very episode at the dance.  That situation was only corrected because finally Jack and Rebecca forced him to go back to the dance.  Nothing Beth does every deters Randall from any and every damn thing he is certain is THE most important and emergent situation because he has deemed it thus.

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

ight there.  That's what I'm talking about and why I thought it was unnecessary for Beth to bother the hostess with what amounts to a personal chore that could have waited until she got home.

I’m at a loss as to why it’s so egregious to ask for a phone to be charged. Then again, maybe I’m just a silly millennial. 

If you are a host, your job is to be accommodating. If you (General you) are put out by someone asking to charge their phone in your home, then you shouldn’t be hosting anyone. JMO.