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Kohola3

S03.E08: The White Elephant

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The world is watching the Great Exhibitions, and the royal couple.

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Haven't seen it yet but it will be the season finale from what I understand. And what has happened this season? Ummmm..... not much really. Anyone else feel cheated?

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6 hours ago, Morlock said:

Haven't seen it yet but it will be the season finale from what I understand. And what has happened this season? Ummmm..... not much really. Anyone else feel cheated?

This has been a seriously shitty season, for sure. 

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2 hours ago, Zella said:

This has been a seriously shitty season, for sure. 

It really tanked with the introduction of the villainous Theo.  Add in the bodice tearing twosome and it's pretty bad.

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14 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

It really tanked with the introduction of the villainous Theo.  Add in the bodice tearing twosome and it's pretty bad.

What's bad is I didn't even have high expectations for this season. I know of all the shows I watch, Victoria is not exactly prestige TV. Still, I'm taken aback by how dreadful the writing is this season. I'm pretty sure my Chihuahua could hammer out a better script. 

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1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

It really tanked with the introduction of the villainous Theo.  Add in the bodice tearing twosome and it's pretty bad.

She is more a nuisance than a serious threat. Maybe that's the problem? And if they had to introduce such an annoying character could they have at least made her better looking? I don't get the Footman and the Duchess either, seems like one hell of a risk for both of them to take (especially her) just for some sex. I never felt the passion between them either. I thought she was more attracted to Lord P if anyone and at least Lord P had the advantage of being able to hide their trysts a lot better than the footman. 

1 hour ago, Zella said:

What's bad is I didn't even have high expectations for this season. I know of all the shows I watch, Victoria is not exactly prestige TV. Still, I'm taken aback by how dreadful the writing is this season. I'm pretty sure my Chihuahua could hammer out a better script. 

It is more like a cheap soapie than a historical drama I agree. The scripts are bad, Albert being amazed by whatever new technology or science he is presented with regardless of what it is. He is like a kid in a toy store. Bertie being a brat I am still laughing at that PC line "England has Queens, not Kings!" yes, he would really say that. 

It all has become a little much. 

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31 minutes ago, Morlock said:

She is more a nuisance than a serious threat. Maybe that's the problem? And if they had to introduce such an annoying character could they have at least made her better looking? I don't get the Footman and the Duchess either, seems like one hell of a risk for both of them to take (especially her) just for some sex. I never felt the passion between them either. I thought she was more attracted to Lord P if anyone and at least Lord P had the advantage of being able to hide their trysts a lot better than the footman. 

It is more like a cheap soapie than a historical drama I agree. The scripts are bad, Albert being amazed by whatever new technology or science he is presented with regardless of what it is. He is like a kid in a toy store. Bertie being a brat I am still laughing at that PC line "England has Queens, not Kings!" yes, he would really say that. 

It all has become a little much. 

Yeah I'm not above enjoying a good melodrama/soap, as long as it's not trying to masquerade as something else. I think that's what I resent the most about the whole thing. If Daisy Goodwin would just own how very fictional and spectacularly unhistorical it is, I'd still not like it, but I could respect her honesty.

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Since I know very little about Victoria other than her longevity and her love for Albert, I have pretty much written this off as a Victorian (no pun intended) soap opera and have stopped believing that anything we see was true.

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4 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah I'm not above enjoying a good melodrama/soap, as long as it's not trying to masquerade as something else. I think that's what I resent the most about the whole thing. If Daisy Goodwin would just own how very fictional and spectacularly unhistorical it is, I'd still not like it, but I could respect her honesty.

I'm not either. I watched soaps for years and still think back positively on most of them. I wouldn't mind at all a fictional Victorian era show it might even be fun to watch. But Victoria hasn't been that good all season even for a soap. They turned Albert into an asshole who dismisses everything his wife says and calls her stupid, who believes everything in science without even just a healthy questioning. You can love science and technology but not love everything about it or have questions. They have Victoria basically right about everything. He believes every single thing Feodora says without question. Even though they just meant, even though her motives could be questionable. Nope, its all Victoria. The Duchess and footman there's nothing there we don't know anything about them, the motives of the footman, zero of the duchess going back and forth knowing what she's risking. She seems surprised to learn a married woman even a duchess could lose everything? Apparently, she never read the papers surrounded Melbourne, or ever heard any of the rumors? There's no way that she wouldn't have heard many stories of that. Then the villain Feodora is such a cartoon villain with a reason to hate Victoria that makes no sense and isn't even Victoria's fault. They could have made things interesting since both women got treated like crap by their mother, or having not seen each other in so long they didn't really know each other. Hell, they could have made her a lot more subtle. Instead they go for the very obvious villain.

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10 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not either. I watched soaps for years and still think back positively on most of them. I wouldn't mind at all a fictional Victorian era show it might even be fun to watch. But Victoria hasn't been that good all season even for a soap.

Good point--soaps at their best are fun! This season has not been fun. It's like the PBS version of an unpleasant chore or a root canal.

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30 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Since I know very little about Victoria other than her longevity and her love for Albert, I have pretty much written this off as a Victorian (no pun intended) soap opera and have stopped believing that anything we see was true.

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

Good point--soaps at their best are fun! This season has not been fun. It's like the PBS version of an unpleasant chore or a root canal.

Agreed. I think it is trying to toe the line between documentary and soap and it is not working because it ends up being neither. A good soapie would have had Victoria having an affair with Lord Melbourne!! 

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15 minutes ago, Bunnyto4 said:

PENGE!!!!!!!

Wow, didn't see that coming.  Totally out of character.

Pretty good episode overall.  I guess we need to wait until next season to find out what happened to the clandestine lovers but looks like Sophie is ditching the footman.

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What I liked:

- Penge!  You grumpy sumbitch, you redeemed yourself.  Kinda.  A little.  Still not on Carson from Downton Abbey levels, but I don't hate you wholesale now.  

- Yay, I like Albert wholeheartedly again!  The jog down the hall with Bertie, the lighthearted joking with Victoria, the kicking out of Feo...

- The door can hit Feo on the way out.  Wish she'd leave the daughter - she's harmless.   (Takes after her father, probably.)

- Aww, Bertie was quite adorable.

- And just like that, the saga of The Footman and The Duchess is over.  He's in America, eking out a living, and she's gonna have her own flat in London with her son.  Very modern, but not in a way that wrinkles my nose.  

- The scenes of the Exhibition at the Crystal Palace were gorgeous.  I looked up the CP and was heartbroken to see it had burned down in 1936.

- Vicky wiping off her hand after her future husband (???) kissed it.  D'aww, Victorian Cooties.

- Hi Lady Pam!  *waves*  She makes Lord Palmerston a better man, and he knows this.  This isn't the end of either of them.  I hope.

What I didn't:

- Ugh, can the Duke die already?  Or at least grow enough of a mustache to actually twirl?

- The matchmaking, or at least the attempts at matchmaking.  From Feo throwing Heidi at the feet of the unseen Emperor of France to Vicky's adult affianced to Bertie's "cute" proposal to Heidi (even if it did lead to Feo leaving our sights), it was tiring at best and squicky at worst.

- The ending.  There are two children and an unfortunate case of typhoid to go through before we say goodbye forever to Albert.  Besides, he just regained my good graces.  We couldn't end on a high note, where he falls asleep over a late supper and Victoria puts a blanket over him and kisses his forehead before having a footman stand watch?  We needed a cliffhanger like we needed Feo around...

All in all, a very... uneven season, and not what I originally came for.  I'll watch the Season Four premiere to get a taste of what may come, but if I'm not happy, I am noping out.

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Well,  my PBS station is having their fund drive tonight.  As a sustaining member,  I'm entitled to nine cds of Victoria.  I think I'll skip my membership this year.  Also,  isn't the time period too early for Albert to die? 

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5 minutes ago, Rhetorica said:

Well,  my PBS station is having their fund drive tonight.  As a sustaining member,  I'm entitled to nine cds of Victoria.  I think I'll skip my membership this year.  Also,  isn't the time period too early for Albert to die? 

Yes, there’s still two more kids, and you know they’re not going to skip the built in drama of Leopold the hemophiliac. That’s got a whole season of drama right there. Feo will probably return to “care for” him. I figured they would end with Victoria whispering in Albert’s ear that she was with child again while he snored softly. 

Compared to some of the terrible episodes this season, this one wasn’t awful. I still can’t believe the Duchess was willing to leave the son, who she loved more than anything, behind to live in the gold fields of California. I think she would have regretted her decision within two hours of arriving at a camp.  Victoria needed to tell her off after saving her sorry butt. 

Edited by irisheyes
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2 hours ago, irisheyes said:

Yes, there’s still two more kids, and you know they’re not going to skip the built in drama of Leopold the hemophiliac. That’s got a whole season of drama right there. Feo will probably return to “care for” him.

Yuuuuuuck.  Can't we bring back Victoria's mother for that?  (Where has she been, any damn way?)

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I just can't stand how Feodora keeps saying she would have been a good queen.  She was never going to be the queen of England.  The only reason she got a royal match at all is because her mother married a royal and then had Victoria.  If she never had Victoria the mother and Feo would have been booted years before.  This is not a spoiler because it was discussed on the first episode of season 1 of why Victoria was in line for Queen.  Remember when Queen Charlotte and her child died in childbirth?  This is what gave Victoria stress on her first pregnancy.

Anyways - I don't know why they keep harping on that one point of Feo thinking she could have been queen.  Ridiculous!

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When Penge was seemingly giving Joseph the evil eye at the exhibition, I started chanting the lyrics to Fever Ray's "If I Had A Heart," and then he ruined my song by apologizing. Honestly, I think Penge is just as dumb as the two star-crossed lovers. Because Joseph cries, that means he really loved her? Maybe he was crying because his meal ticket was institutionalized! If that were my scam, I'd cry too. 

I really blame the lack of chemistry between the footman and the Duchess--as well as the terrible writing--on my apathy. I don't condone adultery IRL because I saw it destroy my parents' marriage, but I've watched shows where the acting/writing was so sizzling that I couldn't help rooting for two people to cheat. This . . . is not one of those shows. I just don't buy that either one of them love each other. 

I did halfway like that they made it less cut and dry than just "Victoria orders Sophie to be released and everything is okay." But that is damning with faint praise. 

Love Lord Pam and his wife. 

At this point, I don't know if I am going to watch season 4. I might read the forum and see the direction it's going before committing. 

Edited by Zella
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Damn it all, I missed the last ten minutes - the last I saw was Albert and Bertie jogging down the hall. Could someone recap what I missed? A thousand thanks!

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6 minutes ago, Zella said:

At this point, I don't know if I am going to watch season 4.

So we'll see you then?

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1 minute ago, jumper sage said:

So we'll see you then?

😂 Probably.

I read The Walking Dead recaps for years after I quit watching. Can't imagine what I'd do with all my free time if I stopped following shows I no longer watch. 😉

And I honestly can't say I wouldn't watch since they do seem to be moving away from some of the storylines that infuriated me the most. Still, I have no confidence in Goodwin's writing, so if I still watch, it will be to snark. 

Edited by Zella
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I loathe cliffhangers, especially in finales.  Will there be a season 4?

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16 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Yes, there’s still two more kids, and you know they’re not going to skip the built in drama of Leopold the hemophiliac. That’s got a whole season of drama right there.

There's that and

Spoiler

1.  The Crimean War  

2.  Vicky's marriage to Crown Prince Friedrich "Fritz" of Prussia

3.  Bertie being set up with Alexandra of Denmark, Alice becoming engaged to Prince Ludwig of Hesse

4.  Bertie's trip to the United States

5.  Albert intervening to make sure Britain stayed neutral during the American Civil War

6.  Bertie's dalliance with Nellie Clifden in Ireland, which is blamed for Albert's health collapse 

That said, I will laugh so hard if when Albert dies, he still has that floppy hair.

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16 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Yes, there’s still two more kids, and you know they’re not going to skip the built in drama of Leopold the hemophiliac. That’s got a whole season of drama right there. Feo will probably return to “care for” him. I figured they would end with Victoria whispering in Albert’s ear that she was with child again while he snored softly. 

Compared to some of the terrible episodes this season, this one wasn’t awful. I still can’t believe the Duchess was willing to leave the son, who she loved more than anything, behind to live in the gold fields of California. I think she would have regretted her decision within two hours of arriving at a camp.  Victoria needed to tell her off after saving her sorry butt. 

Leopold was born in April 1853 so it's over a year from the events in this episode until he's conceived.  

The way it was written/acted, I never thought the Duchess had such an all-consuming love of Joseph that she would abandon her child forever for an unsure future in another country.  

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Ughhhh...what a bullshit ending to a mediocre season.  You realize of course I blame it all on LOE (Lack oErnst).

Just when Albert seemed to be coming out of that morose-ness that plagued him this time around.   The highlight of tonight was Tom breaking out in a grin in that scene with Jenna.  It was like March sunlight after February dreary!  I actually laughed out loud.  It would have been nice to see more made of his name being celebrated at the opening -- it felt like it was meant to be an embrace by the British people (put me in mind of all of China bowing to Mulan), and it should have been *bigger.

Shallow aside: I really dug him in that plumed hat.  Very dashing.  Who knew?

Now I'm going to put on my high heels & do my "I told you so!" dance...this was me in last week's thread:

"Pure spec: since Penge is shown mulling it all, he may end up doing the right thing.  That seems to be the series' m.o. -- the bad guy/gal has a change of heart at the 11th hour." 

Do you suppose we got a preview of next season's Forbidden Love: the Cop & the Chartist (she's grown on me, I must say)?

I'm willing to write this off as a slump, and now that Feodora & the Count are gone, hope for better things.

Like Ernst.

Edited by voiceover
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When renewal is not guaranteed, cliffhangers are especially unkind. 

The Duke is abominable. Loved seeing the Queen subdue him — but only temporarily. “Snap his head like a chicken” rather. 

I hope characters do not simply disappear again if there is another season. Would like to know what becomes of them. 

I did not/do not mind the Sophie and Josef Harlequin style tale. I went with it and get it in the context of the time without the choices I have and with the vile husband Sophie could not simply divorce. William has been at Harrow and away from her. Sometimes children become what they hated/feared in spite of their best efforts and that of the other parent. I get saving yourself — as a woman in my family did so — and wanting to be happy. Money and status aren’t everything. Life with the Duke taught Sophie that and Josef wasn’t on the make — I don’t think — and would struggle along with her. Sophie has no clue just what a struggle it would be, though, and I hope she does not have it in her to leave William. Josef, if he does love her, and I think he does, will get it and I hope the writers have the sense to tell us. IRL, you never get over leaving your child, even if your reasons were unimpeachable. 

Edited by ComeWhatMay · Reason: Missing Words
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This isn't renewed for season 4 and they end with a cliffhanger? Great.

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Why can’t they get rid of most of these bores and let me watch Mrs. Pam make her husband Prime Minister? (And find a decent writer to script it.)

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My station made a 90-minute event of this episode.  Before it started, they kept saying "it's history."  I was ROFL, trying not to cry.

I changed channels at 10 PM because I had something else to watch.  Someone else asked what happened at the end of this episode, and I hope someone will reply.

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Albert and the Vick looked like they were going to make the next baby, then Albert collapsed, unconscious.

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I just want to know if Albert’s assistant married the old duchess’s niece from last season.  How is it that we never find that out?

I don’t care about the Duchess and the footman.  There’s no way she’d leave for America to be penniless with a guy she’s been with twice?  And leave her son?

The Queens dresser just bugs, I can’t believe that Victoria would keep her on even with poor Skerrit’s recommendation.

Theodora was not a good villain but Albert completely fell for her act?  Binge watching today I was astonished at the number of times ALBERT told Victoria the most important thing to her was that her subjects adore her.  Like that’s a bad thing?  The wacky jealousy he and her sister had was dumb.

Im guessing Albert’s collapsed from exhaustion and the stomach issue he was afflicted with?

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I am confused, isn't it too soon for Albert to collapse and get the illness which kills him?

I hope we are done with the duchess and the footman. I would have preferred to continue with the romantic story lines from last season I was actually invested in and which were dropped without any resolution or any explanation.

I think the only new characters and story that worked this season are Lord Pam and his charming wife - now there's a couple worth rooting for. 

I certainly hope we get to see Lord Pam become 

Spoiler

home secretary and prime minister - twice!

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10 hours ago, buttersister said:

Albert and the Vick looked like they were going to make the next baby, then Albert collapsed, unconscious.

That was preposterous, sorry but I laughed my ass off, WTF? I understand that Albert's health had been precarious for some time before he died, but this fainting just before sexy time, where in the hell did DG pull that out of? As for the Duchess and the Hunk, please can this be over now? I guess that ship taking Joe and hopefully the Duchess off to America couldn't be the Titanic eh?

I can't even with the fictional fly in the ointment, Feo, and the daughter that little Bertie (the future creeper par excellence so much so that he was nicknamed "Edward the Caressor") inexplicably is in love with.

Edited by LiveenLetLive
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5 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Anyways - I don't know why they keep harping on that one point of Feo thinking she could have been queen.  Ridiculous!

George IV was apparently quite taken with the young Feo, and it is possible that he could have married her, making her Queen Consort. But Feo's mother put a stop to it and married her off to the German prince. That's why Feo is shown to be so bitter and feeling that she could have been Queen instead.

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9 hours ago, Zella said:

At this point, I don't know if I am going to watch season 4. I might read the forum and see the direction it's going before committing. 

 

Considering that ITV hasn't shown the third season yet, and the quality of the scripts, there may not BE a fourth season.

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48 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

Considering that ITV hasn't shown the third season yet, and the quality of the scripts, there may not BE a fourth season.

Yeah I actually didn't realize that until this morning! For some reason, I thought season 4 was a given but just saw that there has never been any confirmation of renewal and the decision likely will not be made until after the most recent season airs in England. Have no idea how I got it into my head that it had already been renewed!

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Do we know for sure that Feo and her daughter are really leaving?

Sophie would be a fool to go off with the footman and leave her son, especially when the queen has promised an apartment for Sophie and her son. She won't have to fear her husband anymore. The Sophie actress plays this part like she has two brain cells. So, soapy when the footman guy was going off in a teary rant that he would do anything for Sophie, blah, blah in front of all of the other servants. Really? 

The ending seemed so abrupt to me. Like it ended in the middle of an episode.

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9 hours ago, Driad said:

I changed channels at 10 PM because I had something else to watch.  Someone else asked what happened at the end of this episode, and I hope someone will reply

After Albert found out from Bertie that Feo intended to have Heidi marry Louis Napoleon, he goes in a fury to Victoria to tell her that she was right and that Feo is an evil manipulator. Feo comes in and Albert lets her have it. Feo reiterates that she should have been Queen and says she and Heidi will leave in the morning. Victoria runs after Feo to tell beg her to stay (?). She tells Feo that she doesn't have everything; she doesn't have a sister. Feo walks away crying. Sophie comes down the staircase with a small suitcase when her son appears, telling her he had a nightmare that he couldn't find her. Sophie stops. Cut to scene of James waiting alone at the train station, looking forlorn. Later that night, Victoria finds Albert staring out the window at the Crystal Palace. They converse about how successful the Exhibition is. They head off arm and arm, presumably for some nookie, when Albert collapses. The season ends with Albert motionless on the floor with Victoria holding him, screaming his name.

Edited by Good Queen Jane · Reason: Forgot about James and Sophie
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12 hours ago, JustDucky said:

- The matchmaking, or at least the attempts at matchmaking.  From Feo throwing Heidi at the feet of the unseen Emperor of France to Vicky's adult affianced to Bertie's "cute" proposal to Heidi (even if it did lead to Feo leaving our sights), it was tiring at best and squicky at worst.

That was pretty realistic, IMO. Marriage back then, especially among royals, was for strategic purposes more than anything else. The couple was lucky if they could tolerate each other, and it was sheer luck if they actually fell in love.

I had to laugh when Feodora was dreaming about Heidi marrying Napoleon III and being so happy that "an empress outranks a queen." Her bitterness about her status knows no bounds on this show.

How did the show do in the UK? I think it's done well for PBS, so I'd be surprised if we didn't get a fourth season. 

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So the Great Exhibition ran from May-October 1851. Albert died in December 1861. He did start suffering from chronic stomach pain in 1859, and there is some speculation that he was suffering from Crohn's Disease or some form of abdominal cancer, which is what ultimately killed him, not typhoid fever.

Still, in 1851 he was healthy.  The need for a cliffhanger ending baffles me.  Last year, if I recall correctly, the season ended with a happy family scene.

My PBS station was also doing a fundraiser.  And they were going on about the great "historical" programming, and how you could learn so much from watching.  Oh please, spare me.

Edited by 3 is enough
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1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

eason: Forgot about James and Sophie

hahaha, just to prove how lame that whole story line is, the purported hunk's name is Joseph!

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7 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

hahaha, just to prove how lame that whole story line is, the purported hunk's name is Joseph

Ooops! You're right, @LiveenLetLive. Sorry. But we Queens never really pay attention to the servants anyway.

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Besides all of everyone's great observations, one thing I could never accept was Jenna's high-pitched posh accent. The high pitch made her sound like a fussy granny.

And with all of those children, I kept thinking she should be much plumper.

Edited by pasdetrois
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3 hours ago, Popples said:

It hasn't aired yet in the UK, and people were really pissed off that the States got it first. I believe they delayed it to coincide with the 200th anniversary of Queen Victoria's birth.

I knew it was delayed, but not for that long.  Victoria's birthday was May 24,1819.  If UK viewers have to wait until the end of May I understand them being upset.  And when they see the actual series, they will probably be even more upset! I am very curious to see the reaction of UK fans to this season.

Seriously, was there a shake-up behind the scenes before season 3?  New show runners or something?  Because the revisionist history content was really ramped up compared to the first 2 seasons.

Edited by 3 is enough
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I'm going to offer up a puny defense of Jenna's figure after seven children:

Check out Jonathan Rhys Meyers' Henry VIII  on The Tudors.

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1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

My PBS station was also doing a fundraiser.  And they were going on about the great "historical" programming, and how you could learn so much from watching.  Oh please, spare me.

Right? I am okay with some historical liberties being taken, especially since her children basically censoring her journals make our picture of her incomplete, especially in regards to her homelife(who wants to hear about that women stuff like family and relationships, right?), but this season has been more fiction then fact. The whole (made up) thing with Feodora was exceptionally bad. “I escaped some years of imprisonment which you, my poor dear Sister, had to endure after I was married. Often have I praised God that he sent my dear Ernest for I might have married I don’t know whom – merely to get away!” That was written to Victoria by Feodora. They could have had two sisters coming to terms with and having a bond forged by a rough childhood, but nope. We get a Feodora so stereotypically villainous she would have twirled her mustache if the had one.

29 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

And with all of those children, I kept thinking she should be much plumper.

That's Hollywood (or the British equivalent) for you. I actually found this painting done in 1851. It shows a glimpse of how they looked in the eyes of at least one guy (the painter).

image.png

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49 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

And with all of those children, I kept thinking she should be much plumper.

I guess a corset could help hide the baby weight.

She may have put on a little weight, but I have read that she didn't really start packing on the pounds until Albert died.  Still, every time they show her eating  marrons glacees, I can't help thinking it is a sign of things to come...

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