S02.E13: Xin

[Trini]

Quote

Dr. Shaun Murphy, Dr. Morgan Reznick and Dr. Audrey Lim treat a woman with autism and a delicate brain condition while navigating the complicated relationship she has with her roommate, who is also on the spectrum. Meanwhile, Lea and Shaun are still figuring out their friendship and roommate status.

Airdate: Jan. 28, 2019

[preeya]

The Glassman cancer treatment stuff has gone on for too long. I hope it ends quickly.

I thought he was dead at the end of the episode.

How long before Shaun has sex with Lea???

And whatever happened to Dr. Cuddy (Edelstein) who was Glassman's oncologist?

Edited January 29, 2019 by preeya

[Rabithed]

I was over Glassman by the end of Season 1. They keep ending the show the same way. With Glassman finally being appreciative of Shaun. Then next episode “Go away,Leave me to die!” Ugh 

The “Roommate” couple story was different and had some amusing surprises. 

[Annber03]

Shaun venting his frustration at Glassman regarding his attempts to help him was heartbreaking. I can get on some level why Glassman's been wary about all of that, and it's true that there are some aspects of this struggle that even Shaun won't be able to solve or fix for him, and that realization is very frustrating, indeed (I can relate on some level to how Shaun's feeling-I've been there, too). But I really hope that ending is a sign that Glassman will finally properly accept whatever help Shaun is capable of offering. Next week should be very interesting on that front, at least :D. 

I'm also glad that ending wasn't what I initially feared it would be-don't scare me like that again, show, thanks. And I'm glad that Shaun decided to go see Glassman instead of sit around trying to avoid the awkwardness with Lea and her new boyfriend. Will be curious to see how that plays out over time. 

Interesting cases tonight-glad they both ended on a happy note! 

[Trini]

I had heard there was an autistic actor in this episode, I didn't know there were two!

[thuganomics85]

I actually enjoyed both of the cases.  I was worried that the one with the autistic woman would be a bit too coy with her and Shaun, but I liked that he actually wasn't that much involved, and it was more about Reznick interacting with her, and convincing the roommate to help.  Definitely seems like she's change a bit after everything that went down in the quarantine and the EMT guy.  And then Park's (and, well, Claire's, even though she sadly was barely in this one) case with the mother, distant daughter, and her "replacement" was well acted by everyone, especially the daughter.  I wasn't able to see the guest credits, but I knew for sure that I've seen the actress before, and apparently she was Vedette Lim, who I remember from episodes of True Blood and Chicago Fire.  Hope she gets bigger roles.

Freddie Highmore and Richard Schiff are acting the hell out of their stuff, but I'm getting bored with Glassman's storyline.  It just feels like they're repeating everything again each episode.

Despite his claims, Shaun is so not okay with Lea and her new boyfriend.  Oh, Shaun!

Love y'all, Melendez and Lim, but maybe being flirty in the elevator isn't exactly the best way to keep things "on the down low."

Next week certainly looks like they're going to let at least some of the characters loose!

[possibilities]

I was really liking Lim this week.

I hope they do not go the cliche route of having Lea change her mind as soon as Shaun moves on from her romantically.

I notice they've toned down all the jerky behavior of everyone except Glassman. Resnik and Park are nicer. Andrews is starting to be less aggressively dickish and controlling. Lim and Melendez are not longer competing. Everybody gets along and everyone is friendly. I honestly am happier without the obnoxiousness, but it's made Glassman seem like even more of a dick by contrast.

[bros402]

Woohoo! Some actual actors with autism!

Also, I so thought Glassman was gonna be dead at the end there. At least Glassman is actually acting like someone going through chemo for once! He actually looked like he was feeling like crap, at least at the end.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, preeya said:

The Glassman cancer treatment stuff has gone on for too long. I hope it ends quickly.

52 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Freddie Highmore and Richard Schiff are acting the hell out of their stuff, but I'm getting bored with Glassman's storyline.  It just feels like they're repeating everything again each episode.

This arc is just exhausting.

[langford peel]

Cancer is exhausting so that storyline is bringing some reality to the crazy unbelievable plots in this show. 

My big problem is that it is too explicit with all the shots of the procedures and blood and gore. Too much for me. I have to look away half the time.

I long for the days of Ben Casey where the only horrible thing you saw was Dr Zorba’s hair cut.

Edited January 29, 2019 by langford peel
Because I wish all the nurses could look like Julie London

[AnimeMania]

I was hoping the board would take some disciplinary action against Dr. Melendez this episode.

[doctor destiny]

I just can't tell what Shaun is thinking almost the entire episode apart from the frustration of getting Glassman to do what he wants.  How does he really feel about Lea except that he knows he loves her (but in what way?)? DK.  How does he feel about the autistic couple? - don't really know  Is he hurt by Glassman or just frustrated? DK.   And it's not like Highmore isn't acting his pants off.  It just very difficult to parse.

I did like the autistic couple very much and great that they are played by #actuallyautistic actors.  Alex Plank is a legend in the autism community, a genius and philanthropist who is more like Shaun IRL.  My son and daughter often comes out with zingers like they do.  If you listen you can learn a lot.  Glad they have copious amounts of sex and enjoy it without NT hangups.  Really isn't it time for Shaun to have a go at it?  There is nothing more annoying or ridiculous in the notion that autistic people don't have sex.  Hint: it's strongly genetic.  

I liked the technical aspect of the heart patient.  Kept waiting for them to ask Shaun to have a look.  But the back story seemed forced.

Enjoyed the elevator scene.  All actors at the top of their game.

Again with the naysayers on Glassman.  Cancer sucks.  I had chemo for a non-cancerous condition and it scythes you down.  No wonder he is grouchy but hey he'll get there.  It's making Shaun a better doctor having to deal less with the medical aspect and more on the hands on healing.  Next week's promo with the two of them sounds an absolute blast.  

[notcreative enough]

I'm so over Glassman being mean to Shaun. We get it Shaun's a lot to handle and Glassman is going through a lot but damn man. He is the only family you have.

[luvapickle]

No offense to those who hate the cancer story line, but Glassman is not being a dick. He is being a person with cancer. I know-two of my brothers had cancer, & were not exactly happy go lucky-especially during treatments. Not liking the cancer story is one thing, but please don't think the character is in the wrong.

[vibeology]

31 minutes ago, luvapickle said:

No offense to those who hate the cancer story line, but Glassman is not being a dick. He is being a person with cancer. I know-two of my brothers had cancer, & were not exactly happy go lucky-especially during treatments. Not liking the cancer story is one thing, but please don't think the character is in the wrong.

Seriously. Shaun says he wants to help so Glassman asks him to help by taking out the trash. Instead, Shaun comes back into the room, lecturing about the rules of recycling and waving a broken jar in Glassman's face. Take out the fucking garbage, Shaun! If you need to re-sort it, do that on your own but don't turn a request for help into a lecture. Glassman is not the one being a dick here.

Everything about Shaun's feelings for Lea is exhausting. Lea did not bug me this time. She was perfectly in the right over and over. She apologized for not giving Shaun a heads up about an overnight guest. She checked in on his feelings. She interrupted sex to politely tell Shaun she needs privacy. She also laid out the rules before they moved in that she wasn't looking for a relationship with Shaun.

I guess this is the episode where Shaun was bugging me. Everyone is due for one eventually and this was his. Cancer sucks. It sucks for the person with cancer and it sucks for the caretakers and I am sympathetic to the stress and worry and helplessness you feel when someone you love has cancer. But Shaun has no coping skills whatsoever for that stress and that's troubling. That's the same sort of problem that led to him laying on the floor during a crisis in the ER. Glassman pushed (too hard) for Shaun to try therapy last year and I still think Shaun's refusal is a choice that will hurt him in the long run. Shaun has lead a hard life and has experienced overwhelming loss for anyone. Therapy would be good for him and it would give him an outlet that isn't his sick friend or his actively busy roommate.

[Efzee]

3 hours ago, luvapickle said:

No offense to those who hate the cancer story line, but Glassman is not being a dick. He is being a person with cancer. I know-two of my brothers had cancer, & were not exactly happy go lucky-especially during treatments. Not liking the cancer story is one thing, but please don't think the character is in the wrong.

Glassman is being a dick. Deep down, that's just who he is. I also know people who've gone through cancer treatment and none of them suddenly became dicks. They were just themselves but in pain and tired. No one was behaving like Glassman, because they weren't dicks pre-cancer either.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

Everything about Shaun's feelings for Lea is exhausting. Lea did not bug me this time. She was perfectly in the right over and over. She apologized for not giving Shaun a heads up about an overnight guest. She checked in on his feelings. She interrupted sex to politely tell Shaun she needs privacy. She also laid out the rules before they moved in that she wasn't looking for a relationship with Shaun.

But Lea told Shaun that her boyfriend was coming over tonight and all 3 of them were going to watch a movie. Shaun went out of his way to try to make that a pleasant experience for all of them. Lea was in the wrong.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, doctor destiny said:

I just can't tell what Shaun is thinking almost the entire episode apart from the frustration of getting Glassman to do what he wants.  How does he really feel about Lea except that he knows he loves her (but in what way?)? DK.  How does he feel about the autistic couple? - don't really know  Is he hurt by Glassman or just frustrated? DK.   And it's not like Highmore isn't acting his pants off.  It just very difficult to parse.

Agree it is difficult to figure out what Shaun is really feeling.  The other autistic couple almost made things more confusing, since their relationship was so odd.  

My biggest fear was that the whole thing was headed toward a three way with Shaun, Lea, and Jake.

6 hours ago, luvapickle said:

No offense to those who hate the cancer story line, but Glassman is not being a dick. He is being a person with cancer.

That's great, but Glassman was a dick before he got cancer.  So it's not just the cancer.

I thought the mother/daughter relationship got patched up a little too easily and conveniently.  Wow, it turns out the mom did appreciate her musical interests after all!

[chitowngirl]

Did Glassman quit his job or just take a medical leave? After his treatment, I’d love to see him back at the hospital.

[AriAu]

The medical stories were kinda interesting (the mechanical heart discovery was a cool scene..IMHO) but the melodrama among the characters is getting to be more than a bit much....and isnt all that interesting. The melodrama with regard to the patients is status quo for medical dramas and we have seen the mother/daughter story line done a few times, although the couple with autism was a new one...and fairly interesting.

Quote

My biggest fear was that the whole thing was headed toward a three way with Shaun, Lea, and Jake.

Yeah....no. Clearly, Lea has helped Shaun grow as a person and his life is better with her in it, but clearly it is coming to an ugly end. She isnt selfish enough to keep this going in a way that hurts him and she is just grasping that it is.

[MVN-Hokies]

For those who are enjoying the Lim & Melendez relationship, ABC press released some photos from the elevator scene today.  https://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/thegooddoctor/photos/

[catrice2]

I was bored by this episode. 

[Emma9]

I think what bothers me with Shaun isn't that he doesn't intrinsically understand where people's boundaries are - it's that he doesn't stop when someone says stop. With Glassman it's more complicated because he does seem to need at least a bit of bullying to get through his treatment (although that would be a better role for a home health aid to fill), but it keeps happening with Lea as well.

Yes, she's sent him mixed signals and it's understandable for Shaun to be confused about where her head's at sometimes (just watching the show, I'm in the same boat!). But backing off when someone says they don't want something (see: the apartment) isn't something you need to be able to interpret subtle cues about human behavior in order to do.

I did like that he seemed friendly to the boyfriend rather than conventionally jealous, and also liked that Lea didn't understand that at first. When she pointed out that they'd be wanting to be together just as a couple, I was hoping she'd suggest Shaun and BF could also hang out sometime. Assuming BF doesn't turn out to be another jerk who takes advantage of him, he could use another friend.

 

On 1/28/2019 at 10:04 PM, preeya said:

And whatever happened to Dr. Cuddy (Edelstein) who was Glassman's oncologist?

 

I know! I was so excited when I heard she was 'joining the cast' this season; I didn't realize her role was going to be this sporadic.

 

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

I thought the mother/daughter relationship got patched up a little too easily and conveniently.  Wow, it turns out the mom did appreciate her musical interests after all!

Same. It bugged me that the daughter was the only one to apologize, since it seemed that their estrangement was pretty mutual - and no, admitting that you attended one of her performances, but deliberately concealed the fact that you were there so that your presence wasn't in any way supportive or encouraging, doesn't count as an apology.

Although I was expecting that storyline to devolve into the girls fighting over treatment decisions (considering the prior surgery, I wouldn't be surprised if the friend-daughter has a healthcare proxy of some sort), so it was a relief that we mostly averted that. The bio-daughter seemed like she was sincere when she said she was glad the friend-daughter was there for the mom.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Emma9

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, AriAu said:

Yeah....no. Clearly, Lea has helped Shaun grow as a person and his life is better with her in it, but clearly it is coming to an ugly end. She isnt selfish enough to keep this going in a way that hurts him and she is just grasping that it is.

"Lea wants sex.  I'm going to have sex with Lea.  I like Jake.  We can all be friends together.  We will all have sex together".

That's really where I thought it was going for awhile.

I'd like to know if Shaun is really jealous but hiding it, or if he really doesn't care that Lea has a boyfriend.  Or maybe he'd prefer that she didn't, but from a practical standpoint he prefers that she is there no matter what the circumstances.  But if that's the case, what emotions are he feeling about it, if any?  It's really hard to tell.

[tennisgurl]

Loved when Lim mentioned that their patient had autism, and Reznick looked over at Shaun. "They dont all know each other." I love Lim so much. 

Wow, Mrs. Kim is even less supportive of this daughters music dreams than she was of Lanes! ;) 

[izabella]

I don't know much about autism.  Can anyone help me understand why the patient was unable to say anything during surgery until her friend/boyfriend started quizzing her on bugs?  Lim explained that she needed to speak sothey would know when they were touching the wrong places in her brain, and that if she didn't speak, she might end up not being able to.   Was she unable to understand, or was she having trouble processing what Lim was saying?  Why wasn't she able to say what the pictures were, but was able to talk bugs?  Why was she just staring into space but not saying anything? 

Edited January 30, 2019 by izabella

[bros402]

21 hours ago, doctor destiny said:

I did like the autistic couple very much and great that they are played by #actuallyautistic actors.  Alex Plank is a legend in the autism community, a genius and philanthropist who is more like Shaun IRL.  My son and daughter often comes out with zingers like they do.  If you listen you can learn a lot.  Glad they have copious amounts of sex and enjoy it without NT hangups.  Really isn't it time for Shaun to have a go at it?  There is nothing more annoying or ridiculous in the notion that autistic people don't have sex.  Hint: it's strongly genetic.  

 

Again with the naysayers on Glassman.  Cancer sucks.  I had chemo for a non-cancerous condition and it scythes you down.  No wonder he is grouchy but hey he'll get there.  It's making Shaun a better doctor having to deal less with the medical aspect and more on the hands on healing.  Next week's promo with the two of them sounds an absolute blast.  

I have cancer, I can understand Glassman's actions in this episode.

Also, yeah, people like to think people with disabilities are asexual - they like to infantilize disabled individuals.

16 hours ago, luvapickle said:

No offense to those who hate the cancer story line, but Glassman is not being a dick. He is being a person with cancer. I know-two of my brothers had cancer, & were not exactly happy go lucky-especially during treatments. Not liking the cancer story is one thing, but please don't think the character is in the wrong.

Yuuup

54 minutes ago, izabella said:

I don't know much about autism.  Can anyone help me understand why the patient was unable to say anything during surgery until her friend/boyfriend started quizzing her on bugs?  Lim explained that she needed to speak sothey would know when they were touching the wrong places in her brain, and that if she didn't speak, she might end up not being able to.   Was she unable to understand, or was she having trouble processing what Lim was saying?  Why wasn't she able to say what the pictures were, but was able to talk bugs?  Why was she just staring into space but not saying anything? 

She was too nervous to speak. She needed to have someone she was comfortable with to talk to. She is much more comfortable talking about bugs than random images that essentially have no meaning.

[doctor destiny]

9 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Did Glassman quit his job or just take a medical leave? After his treatment, I’d love to see him back at the hospital.

My guess is that Glassman will feel better by the end of the series and go off on another adventure.  He's hardly had any interactions the whole series with his previous staff (didn't his mentee Melendez ever come to visit him?), Jessica is AWOL...He isn't part of any other arc, all by himself.  Going on a journey in episode 1..only this time Shaun can't come too.

[doctor destiny]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I don't know much about autism.  Can anyone help me understand why the patient was unable to say anything during surgery until her friend/boyfriend started quizzing her on bugs?  Lim explained that she needed to speak sothey would know when they were touching the wrong places in her brain, and that if she didn't speak, she might end up not being able to.   Was she unable to understand, or was she having trouble processing what Lim was saying?  Why wasn't she able to say what the pictures were, but was able to talk bugs?  Why was she just staring into space but not saying anything? 

She almost certainly understood but was unable to speak being too stressed out.  My kids take comfort on things that they tangibly know.  So we could be in the middle of a family conversation about something difficult and abstract like when it's OK to lie and my son will interject with information about birds (which by the way is extremely detailed and never wrong).  It's a coping mechanism.  Note that the one time that Shaun truly interacts with Lana he brings up a fact that he knew would interest her. 

Incidentally, the fact that he knew exactly how to calm Lana down goes over Resnick's head.  Resnick also got it wrong in Quarantine part 2.  She failed to realize that the buzzing lights were the issue and that simply removing the stimulus massively helped.  Park got it.  She doesn't.  She also tries to impose an NT perspective on Lana and Javi's relationship in a wholly inappropriate way that is way worse than Shaun's occasional inadvertent burns.  

[ForReal]

5 hours ago, doctor destiny said:

Incidentally, the fact that he knew exactly how to calm Lana down goes over Resnick's head.  Resnick also got it wrong in Quarantine part 2.  She failed to realize that the buzzing lights were the issue and that simply removing the stimulus massively helped.  Park got it.  She doesn't.  She also tries to impose an NT perspective on Lana and Javi's relationship in a wholly inappropriate way that is way worse than Shaun's occasional inadvertent burns.  

This! It really bugged me how to tried to make their relationship fit into her vision of love, when it wasn't at all clear to me that that is what they were feeling. It felt like a put down that they couldn't/wouldn't have reached that realization themselves if they were meant to, without her directing them.

I wonder if anything will come of Andrews' throwaway line to Melendez and Kim that if his job of chief surgeon is available again, at least they won't be competing against each other, at which they exchanged a look. That will be an interesting development for their, uh, relationship.

[rmontro]

10 hours ago, doctor destiny said:

My guess is that Glassman will feel better by the end of the series and go off on another adventure.  He's hardly had any interactions the whole series with his previous staff 

After Glassman recovers, he's going to get his own spinoff series, The Dick Doctor.

Good point about how isolated his character is.  You'd think he would have remained in touch with a few of the hospital staff, or that they would be concerned about him beyond merely asking Shawn how he's doing.

[TVForever]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, Mrs. Kim is even less supportive of this daughters music dreams than she was of Lanes! ;) 

I actually wished that the writers had made the daughter anything but a musician; I couldn't see her as anyone other than Mrs. Kim, and the daughter as grown-up Lane!

[Evagirl]

I really do not like the way the writers are portraying Lea.  Maybe it's because I have such affection for the character Shaun.  He's been through so much - having a lousy dad, losing a loving brother, being in the foster care system - all of this and more.  Still he keeps putting one foot before the other no matter how ugly his "friends" are to him.  When Lea took Shaun off on that weekend jaunt I was so happy for Shaun because Lea really gets him.  She understands him or so I thought.  She has to know that Shaun has a crush on her, she must unless she's a total twit.  How could she bring a dude into her bedroom for sex, knowing Shaun could walk through the door at any time?  Why didn't she go to his place or to a motel.  I know she and Shaun talked this out and he said he was fine with Lea having boyfriends, but did that mean he was fine with her having sex in an apartment that they share - AND NOT EVEN DISCREET SEX AT THAT!!  Shaun has feelings and nobody except Clare and Park seem to care about those feelings.  No matter how "detached" he appears, you can see the pain in his eyes when those he love the most hurt him.

Yes, Shaun can be a pill with his persistence.  But that's him, that's his personality.  Glassman and Shaun need to come up with a signal for stop - maybe just arm out, palm up - stop.  When Shaun starts causing grief because of whatever trivial thing that may push his button (like the broken bottle), Glassman should use the non-verbal signal, stop, and once Shaun has shut up, tell him again to just take out the garbage.  He doesn't have to yell at him. 

Lastly, Lea should have never brought that guy in for romper room play until Shaun had gotten to know him and was used to having him around.  She also should have had the decency to have "quiet" sex knowing Shaun was in the next room.  I am so over this girl.

[vibeology]

21 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

How could she bring a dude into her bedroom for sex, knowing Shaun could walk through the door at any time?  Why didn't she go to his place or to a motel. 

Because it's her home too and she shouldn't have to pay to go somewhere else to have sex. She was very clear with Shaun about her reservations in moving in with him and he went out of his way to assure her it would be fine and that he understood that she wasn't looking to him as a romantic partner. She was very clear and shouldn't have to leave her home because Shaun can't keep up his end of the bargain. She literally told him that if they moved in together he'd hear her having sex with guys and Shaun still pushed for them to move into the apartment. She literally described this scenario to him but he said it would be fine and she trusted him. She trusted him at his word and he's the one with the problem here.

[jhlipton]

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

She was too nervous to speak. She needed to have someone she was comfortable with to talk to. She is much more comfortable talking about bugs than random images that essentially have no meaning.

Was I the only one saying "Why are you showing her these random pictures?  Show her some bugs, dammit!!!"???  It should have been obvious to either Shawn or Lim, if not to Reznik.

[MsNewsradio]

18 hours ago, izabella said:

I don't know much about autism.  Can anyone help me understand why the patient was unable to say anything during surgery until her friend/boyfriend started quizzing her on bugs?  Lim explained that she needed to speak sothey would know when they were touching the wrong places in her brain, and that if she didn't speak, she might end up not being able to.   Was she unable to understand, or was she having trouble processing what Lim was saying?  Why wasn't she able to say what the pictures were, but was able to talk bugs?  Why was she just staring into space but not saying anything? 

In high stress situations a lot of autistics can go into shutdown mode, and may have issues with situational mutism and be unable to verbalize what they are thinking. I try to explain it to friends as the equivalent of the "blue screen of death" when a computer is overloaded - everything just crashes. It's also one of the reasons she started stimming so much with her blankets - again, stimming is usually used as an overload release (whether positive or negative).

 

Even autistics that are typically very verbal may have issues with speaking during high stress situations - that's one issue I have when I'm in the middle of a shutdown. At that point, someone asking anything of me, or trying to elicit verbal responses from me, is not going to get anything coherent, because I'm basically concentrating on keeping myself together in the most basic sense possible at that point. One way to try to deescalate from something like that is to try to focus on something of particular interest as a distraction - in Lana's case, bugs. My friends and I have done movie quotes with one another sometimes to similar effect. 

 

I had mixed feelings on the episode. I liked some of the details (the tinted glasses for Javi to help him with his light sensitivity, the stimming by both him and Lana, her inability to articulate in high stress), but there is still a lot of leaning on cliche and autism myths. I was happy to see them utilizing actually autistic actors for a change, though. Shame they can't hire Alex Plank on permanently as an autism consultant the way he did for The Bridge, because some of the interviews I've read with the person they do have consulting on the show (who of course isn't autistic themselves) have been cringeworthy. 

[Emma9]

On January 29, 2019 at 5:05 AM, doctor destiny said:

Glad they have copious amounts of sex and enjoy it without NT hangups.  Really isn't it time for Shaun to have a go at it?  There is nothing more annoying or ridiculous in the notion that autistic people don't have sex.

It's also possible that Shaun as an individual is either asexual or grey-ace of some variety, for reasons that have nothing to do with autism.

I don't know if I trust the show to make that distinction so as not to reinforce the autism=immature stereotype, but it's indeed a good sign that the roommates in this episode, while maybe not quite as high-fuctioning as Shaun (but high-functioning enough to have their own place), had active sex drives/lives.

[LisaM]

Mrs. Kim! Seeing her was wonderful. I thought the story with the substitute daughter was well done. 

[Court]

Re: the apartment. Yes, Shaun pushed but he then let it go. Lea brought up the idea again and made the decision. 

[rmontro]

9 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I really do not like the way the writers are portraying Lea.

I feel like she's behaving in a sleazy manner.  I'm trying to be open minded about it, I know people have sex.  But this is classic hurtful bad girl behavior.  She's put the nice guy (Shawn) who has a crush on her (I guess) deep into the friendzone and gains all the benefits of that arrangement, while parading her line of sexual boy toys in front of him.  Again, I'm trying not to be judgemental about it, and Shawn's enabled it too, it just comes off as sleazy.

[bros402]

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Was I the only one saying "Why are you showing her these random pictures?  Show her some bugs, dammit!!!"???  It should have been obvious to either Shawn or Lim, if not to Reznik.

I was also thinking that - but they needed a narrative reason for Javi to come in :P

[possibilities]

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Was I the only one saying "Why are you showing her these random pictures?  Show her some bugs, dammit!!!"???  It should have been obvious to either Shawn or Lim, if not to Reznik.

I thought that, too, but I think they needed to be able to verify that she was correctly identifying the pictures. If she sees an apple and says she sees a car, they know they've got problems. Having her friend there, he could identify if she was making  mistakes or not.

[doctor destiny]

5 hours ago, Emma9 said:

It's also possible that Shaun as an individual is either asexual or grey-ace of some variety, for reasons that have nothing to do with autism.

I don't know if I trust the show to make that distinction so as not to reinforce the autism=immature stereotype, but it's indeed a good sign that the roommates in this episode, while maybe not quite as high-fuctioning as Shaun (but high-functioning enough to have their own place), had active sex drives/lives.

That's true but we know that he likes porn from series 1 episode: Pipes and that he is frightened of womens' approaches after a particularly bad incident.  I agree on the question of what the the showrunners understand and I'm concerned they have an experienced but ultimately neurotypical woman as their autism consultant.  There's a slightly "off" beat in their writing of Shaun.  He's too inconsistent and they've stopped showing his competency.

[Emma9]

9 hours ago, Court said:

Re: the apartment. Yes, Shaun pushed but he then let it go. Lea brought up the idea again and made the decision. 

I don't remember the episode well enough to die on this hill, but I feel like Shaun pushed it repeatedly and more strenuously than I would have been anywhere near comfortable with in Lea's shoes. The fact that she eventually changed her mind isn't the point.

 

4 hours ago, doctor destiny said:

That's true but we know that he likes porn from series 1 episode: Pipes and that he is frightened of womens' approaches after a particularly bad incident.

Thanks, I didn't remember that. In that case, yes, he should definitely get the opportunity to resolve his issues in that area. (Preferably not with Lea, because I'm pretty soured on their dynamic on both of their parts, see above...then again, because this is a TV drama, what are the odds of similar crap not happening with anyone new?)

I'd be fine if they ditched relationships entirely and just did medical storylines, but clearly that isn't in the cards (see: every other cast member), so it does send an unfortunate message to have Shaun always be the odd one out there.

[Lady Calypso]

I totally get that being diagnosed with cancer has taken a toll on Glassman and he's angry about it. I'm sure it's even realistic for him to be so snippy. My issue is that it's been 13 episodes and Glassman has been pissy for almost all of them. Moreover, he's been treating Shaun like crap. This is just not a fun storyline to watch and makes me resent Glassman a little bit (which I know is unfair since he's the one with cancer and should be allowed to react like this). It doesn't help that Shaun's getting stuck in shitty storylines now with Lea and that love triangle stuff. Again, I get that they have a purpose in all of this but it's hard to watch Glassman be so harsh toward Shaun and has been the entire season. I think my annoyance with Glassman is how he's been so prickly toward Shaun...because Shaun's one of two people he's interacted with for this season. 

That being said, I think Glassman was a little more subdued with his annoyance at Shaun. Maybe that's because he was exhausted, so it did kind of work. I think it might help if Glassman started interacting with the other main characters more. Him being so isolated and only having Shaun and Lea in his storylines doesn't really help things. 

Going back to Lea, I really did like her last season but I wonder if I was just enamored with her because she treated Shaun like she would with anyone else. Now, I'm just not liking her and I hate the idea that her and Shaun will become a couple. I do appreciate that she was trying with Shaun, who I know could be frustrating to deal with, but she comes off as a bit condescending.

I liked the storyline with the two roommates.

I'm not really feeling Melendez/Lim, but I still like these two independently. 

[possibilities]

Glassman is just boring to me. He's doing the same exact thing every episode all season. He was harsh with the woman who wanted to support him and be his girlfriend. Now he's being grouchy with Shaun. He pukes, he grumbles, he lies in bed and suffers. He resists what his doctors want and gives no reason other than ego and stubbornness. It's realistic but it's not a story.

The other characters have things going on, there's a little variety in the case of the week, it's like they just want Schiff to show up and work because they have a contract and need to pay him, so they're trying to get something out of it or something. But it's the same exact beat every single scene.

[jhlipton]

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought that, too, but I think they needed to be able to verify that she was correctly identifying the pictures. If she sees an apple and says she sees a car, they know they've got problems. Having her friend there, he could identify if she was making  mistakes or not.

They weren't near her cognitive center, just her speech center, so if she said anything at all, they knew they were OK.  If they showed a ladybug and she said Luna Moth, that would be fine, as long as she spoke.

[vibeology]

16 hours ago, rmontro said:

I feel like she's behaving in a sleazy manner.  I'm trying to be open minded about it, I know people have sex.  But this is classic hurtful bad girl behavior.  She's put the nice guy (Shawn) who has a crush on her (I guess) deep into the friendzone and gains all the benefits of that arrangement, while parading her line of sexual boy toys in front of him.  Again, I'm trying not to be judgemental about it, and Shawn's enabled it too, it just comes off as sleazy.

What are we talking about here? A woman in her 20s made it clear to a friend that she wasn't interested in him romantically. She made it clear that she would not want to be in a relationship with him. She made it clear that her interest in him is friendship. She asked him if he'd be okay with that once they were living together. She explicitly said she'd be perusing other romantic relationships while they were living together and asked Shaun if he'd be okay with that. She explicitly told him he'd end up hearing her have sex with other guys or accidently walk in on her naked and if he would be okay with that. Shaun said he would be okay with that.

She is not parading sexual boy toys around. She is having a guest over in her home. The friend zone isn't a real thing. Lea was very clear with Shaun that she was not interested in a romantic relationship with him. Shaun is responsible for managing his feelings about that; not Lea. And while that might be more complicated because of his austism, it doesn't relieve him of the responsibility.

Lea is behaving the way most 20 year old women behave. They date and have sex with their dates in their home. She is doing nothing wrong. And what benefits is she getting? She does nearly all of the emotional labour between the two of them. She also has to follow all of Shaun's rules like putting things back in precise spots or buying specific household supplies. She pays rent. The benefit I see is that she gets to live in a nicer place than she can afford on her own and gets to live with someone she likes and trusts. Shaun is getting the same benefits.

She isn't being sleazy. She doesn't owe Shaun a relationship just because he wants one and she doesn't have to live like a nun to placate his feelings. She laid all of this out and Shaun said he would be okay. It's not her fault that she took him at his word, and frankly it would be wrong of her not to take him at his word.

[Emma9]

@vibeology

I agree with your post. I have my issues with Lea, but her having a social life isn't one of them. What I do wish she (and the show) would address is that she was being very clearly painted as a romantic prospect for him last season. The kiss et al were her idea.

Now: she's 100% allowed to change her mind. And though we haven't been let in on her thought processes, as a viewer I can fanwank that she was interested in him, but that either that interest has faded or she's realized that their dynamic wouldn't give her what she needs in a relationship.

And if Shaun had more experience with dating, I'd be more inclined to say that the onus was on him to realize that one of those two things had probably happened. As it is, I think it would be kind of Lea to be clear and specific about it (as she's been about other things: you're right that she told Shaun exactly what to expect as her roommate).

In this episode, I don't know if he was behaving jealously - my interpretation of the first scene was that Lea was expecting from a neurotypical standpoint (hence telling the guy to hide in her room) that he would be, while in Shaun's eyes, BF being in a relationship with his crush wouldn't be a barrier to the two of them being friends (he's not a drummer and he likes orange juice, so he's cool!). I'd like to see a storyline like that explored. But I could be wrong about that and the show could be going for a more typical love triangle.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Emma9

[Virtual]

Overall, I think Lea has been someone that is healthy for Shaun's life and has been a good friend (I say only good because Glassman was right to verbally confront her over kissing Shaun and then leaving town). Whatever has happened since the mid point of last season may be for good reason (we don't know yet) as to why Lea has different vibes toward Shaun now, romantically. I did say in last week's thread that if Shaun meets someone else and hits it off with them, he shouldn't hold off because of Lea (and I hope he doesn't).

I see Andrews is still being leery about a possible promotion for Melendez or Lim. I understand it a little since some of their competing hurt them, but I think it's more Andrews thinking he is the only one who can do those jobs.