S04.E13: Man of Worth

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie, Claire and Young Ian's attempt to rescue Roger from his Mohawk captors goes awry when a ghost from Claire's past lays waste to their plan. Meanwhile, Brianna worries Claire, Jamie and Roger might not return.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[LoveLeigh]

Who is Fitzgibbons the Redcoats want Jamie to hunt down? 

[toolazy]

2 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Who is Fitzgibbons the Redcoats want Jamie to hunt down? 

Murtagh. They have inexplicably changed his last name from Fraser.

[Quickbeam]

“That’s your last unanswered blow”....enough already!.....decent show given how much needed to be crammed in.

[toolazy]

12 minutes ago, toolazy said:

Murtagh. They have inexplicably changed his last name from Fraser.

Or maybe not inexplicably if they want Jamie to retain some plausible deniability.

 

Anyway, I didn't mind the episode nearly as much as a bunch of folks on Twitter.

 

The scene where Bree and Roger run towards each other is a bit much, but I'm just happy that they  didn't drag out River's choice.

 

There was some dodgy CGI that kept distracting me.

Edited January 27, 2019 by toolazy

[theschnauzers]

Murtaugh’s mother’s family are Fitsgibbons. Makes sense to hide using that name. 

It was interesting that some season 5 plot lines were set up in this finale. Clearly the still living Murtagh is a combination of several characters in the books going forward, and the call for Jamie to set up a militia comes, IIRC, midway in Fiery Cross.

And this episode gets us to 1771 as the time between the handfast and Roger’s arrival at River Run is close to a year.

Episode itself was well done, cleared a lot of story points, and gave viewers some important points about the time travel aspects for a change.

[Glaze Crazy]

Well kudos to the writers, I think they pulled it off. I thought there would be too much story left to plow through in one hour but they made it work. I checked my kindle book afterwards, from when Jamie and Claire get to the Mohawk village to the end of the book is only about 15% left, plus that section also had Brianna and Lord John's "engagement" and visit to Bonnet interspersed there too, so it wasn't really all that much left. I'm also glad they streamlined/mostly eliminated the discomfort between Brianna and Roger when he gets back and just gave them the romantic 100 yard dash across the field of grass instead.

I'm intrigued on this new romance between Murtagh and Jocasta also.  the Duncan Innes character always seemed the weaker character in the book relationship, being as he stayed at River Run as more of an agent for Jamie than as an equal to Jocasta and their marriage was more convenience and a business relationship vs. passion. I like show Jocasta better too, her fiery personality really comes across when she's paired with Murtagh and he seems more her equal in their shared history.

They even set up the next season with a new storyline even book readers aren't spoiled for, since Murtagh isn't alive there.

[anamika]

I love how disinterested Roger was about the whole who should sacrifice themselves to the Mohawk discussion. He was just standing to one side with a  'whatever. Just get me out of here' look while the other three were hugging and crying.  He does not know Ian and Jamie and they were responsible for his suffering all these months.

Ian looks like he will fit in well with the Mohawk. Glad Rollo is with him. I felt more sad for that poor Mohawk lady who got kicked out for helping them.

Jamie to Roger- 'you cost me a lad that I love' - Pretty sure Jamie was responsible for that. Glad Roger got to vent. Richard Rankin was great as always. 

I intermittently watched season one, skipped two and three and am now watching season 4. Enjoyed the season.

[Petunia846]

I thought it worked well. Was it longer than 60 minutes? It felt like a lot of stuff was crammed in there.

Is that how the Otter Tooth story goes in the book or was tying that into Roger's rescue a show-only thing? I thought it worked well, except you just had to hope that these people who were ardent followers of a man from the future who told them they needed to kill all the white people before it was too late didn't take his advice when it came to these particular white people. Claire's like, "We'll help you!" And the other woman should have been like, "Dude, he literally told us not to trust people like you." *shrug*

[cardigirl]

Sigh, now the looong wait for season 5 begins.  Glad they didn't leave us hanging about for Roger's return.  Was happy to see Ian survive the gauntlet and be adopted into the tribe. I hope we see him next season.  I was glad Roger got to hit Jamie a bit.  Poor Roger, thinking that maybe Bree had asked her Da to get rid of him.  

For such a problematic book, I did enjoy a lot of this season.  I will be waiting impatiently for season 5.  

[Ziggy]

That was incredible!!! 

It was so hard to watch the goodbyes with Ian, but wow!  The pride on Ian's face when he realizes he made it through the Gauntlet!!!  Priceless!

Murtagh and Jocasta :-)  (Can't believe the writers thought no one would see that coming.)

Brianna seeing Roger and running out to him absolutely brought me to tears.  That does not happen often, but they had me almost sobbing.  Their love story was told so differently from Jamie and Claire's.  Roger was clearing attracted to Brianna from the moment he first saw her, and he was pretty clearly falling for her.  Brianna was definitely attracted to him, and she did seem to love him.  But man did she sell it in this scene!!!

I went into this episode expecting to pleased with the season finale.  So far, I've been very happy with how they tied everything together ... even when the penultimate episode leaves me thinking, "How the heck are they going to be able to fit everything into the last episode."  But, wow, they really blew me away with this one!

Amazing finale!!!

[Ziggy]

7 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Who is Fitzgibbons the Redcoats want Jamie to hunt down? 

 

7 hours ago, toolazy said:

Murtagh. They have inexplicably changed his last name from Fraser.

His name is Murtagh FitzGibbons Fraser, but he's been going by the name Murtagh FitzGibbons.  Just like James Alexander Malcolm MacKenzie Fraser usually goes by Jamie Fraser, he did live under the name Alexander Malcolm wen he was a printer and actually went by various names in the book ... usually because he was wanted or doing something illegal.

[cesstar]

A solid finale although not my favourite (season 2 is probably). They did a good job of wrapping things up while also laying the groundwork for next season. 

I feel we got a bit shortchanged on Ian this season but the scene between him and Jamie broke my heart. Really well acted and they sold the emotion.

I liked Jocasta and Murtagh, although I'm not sure where they will take it now that Murtagh is a wanted man.

I felt so sorry for Bree that neither her parents or Roger were around for her giving birth,  and then with Roger not returning straight away... How awful for her. I didn't feel that her dramatic run towards him was earned at all, that part fell quite flat to me although I know the writers probably wanted a happy ending before the Murtagh reveal. I don't know,  I find them a problematic couple in the book and the actors don't have enough chemistry for me to overlook it in the show either. Will be interesting to see how they deal with their relationship next season.

I felt that the episode lacked some kind of reconciliation between Bree and Jamie at the end, particularly after their conflict drove the action for the latter part of tge season.

It's a tough book to adapt, given some of the contrived storytelling and plot lines, probably the hardest of all of them all. I think they did a pretty reasonable job although I doubt I will rewatch as many episodes as previous seasons. But looking forward to next season!

Edited January 28, 2019 by cesstar

[Future Cat Lady]

Jamie and Claire should’ve been at Jem’s birth.

They should've cut a lot of the walking to the Mohawk village to get time for the Fraser family reunion. 

And Jamie didn't get to hold is grandchild? WTF!

Edited January 27, 2019 by Future Cat Lady

[Ziggy]

53 minutes ago, cesstar said:

I didn't feel that her dramatic run towards him was earned at all ... "

I'm very curious what you mean by that.  I don't know what you felt needed to be earned or by whom.

[FnkyChkn34]

Well... book purists are probably livid, right? 

I actually kind of liked this episode. The rest of the season was "meh" but this was a good wrap up. 

[nodorothyparker]

The episode was better than I was expecting heading into it, but because it's an Outlander finale where they left waaay too much until the end to give it proper space to breathe there was still plenty that felt rushed or unearned.

Could have done without the big romance novel cliche of Roger and Bree running into each other's arms.  We haven't seen anywhere close to enough of them together as any sort of functional couple for that to feel deserved.  How did Roger even know to look for Brianna at River Run?  Claire briefly mentioned that Brianna was with her aunt, but didn't delve into any of the specifics of who that is or where she might be.  As it is, this felt like a speed reader's version of events where the show couldn't be bothered to pause to give Jamie time to make up with his daughter or give him more than a glance to the newest member of his family who won't be immediately snatched away from him.  It couldn't take the time to give Roger even a cursory look at this child that he was willingly giving up his entire life in his own time for.  I'm okay with skipping the book version of the birth which always feels weirdly anachronistic but replace it with something that conveys the weight of how much it means to finally have this family all together all in one time and place.

I will give Sam full marks for everything he was conveying without dialogue in the final scene in the Mohawk village.  You could see him mentally steeling himself to be separated from everyone he loved yet again only for that to be replaced by the dawning horror and sadness that he was instead giving up what had been the closest thing to a child he ever expected to have any access to in Ian.  Still, they were all awfully cavalier about their actions getting the poor Mohawk woman kicked out of her tribe.  It's all very well and good to make promises beforehand about how you'll "help" if they do you a solid first, but they seemingly walked away with nary a thought about the destruction their rescue attempt caused.  Jamie and Roger duking it out was handled probably about as well as it could have been, and I did like Roger appealing to Claire during the tortured explanation of the Great Misunderstanding as if to say, "Look we're from the same time.  Don't tell me you don't see how ridiculous all of this is at every level."  At least show Claire is able to speak up and acknowledge how huge what's being asked of Roger is and that maybe he needs a freaking minute before agreeing to sign his entire life in his own time away for some backwoods pioneer fantasy built around a kid who may not even be his.

It was obvious the show was building up to dropping that warrant for Murtagh on Jamie at the end as it's been playing up the budding revolutionary stuff that's mostly background stuff in the book all season.  Murtagh and Jocasta are lovely but likely limited as it's doubtful she'll be publicly marrying a wanted man to serve as a male figurehead

[Nidratime]

Initially, the title card was interesting and I thought it was just to represent, generally, the fall out of two centuries of horrendous treatment of Native Americans that has been whitewashed. But, when they began the Otter Tooth story at the Mohawk Village, I let out a "Oh, hey!"That guy in the title card was Otter Tooth! (It looks like he, too, came from the period around 1950's/1960's.) Did you all know that it was him immediately? They got me there, and I've read the book!

[Ziggy]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:36 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Could have done without the big romance novel cliche of Roger and Bree running into each other's arms.  We haven't seen anywhere close to enough of them together as any sort of functional couple for that to feel deserved.

I thought that was kind of the point.  At the beginning of the season Brianna wasn't sure of her feelings for Roger.  He followed her back to the 18th Century, and she realized just how much he had done for her and how much he loved her, and that was a turning point for her.  She is soon raped, finds her father and has time at the Ridge to think about things and realize how much she does love him.  All this time she thinks he left her and returned to the 20th century only to find that her own father had beaten him to within and inch of his life and her cousin sold him into slavery.  And still, he returned to her.  How much more deserved could her feelings possibly be?

They've both been through hell and back (and have more hell yet to come).  But they are finally together and both want the same thing.

I don't care how "cliche" her running to him was.  I thought it spoke volumes about her feelings for him.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Ziggy

[Eureka]

24 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Initially, the title card was interesting and I thought it was just to represent, generally, the fall out of two centuries of horrendous treatment of Native Americans that has been whitewashed. But, when they began the Otter Tooth story at the Mohawk Village, I let out a "Oh, hey!"That guy in the title card was Otter Tooth! (It looks like he, too, came from the period around 1950's/1960's.) Did you all know that it was him immediately? They got me there, and I've read the book!

Yes, I knew immediately.

[WatchrTina]

I'm reacting without seeing anyone else's response.

Holy shit that was intense. 

Holy shit they covered a lot of ground in one episode.

Holy plot-twist Batman!  Jamie is supposed to hunt down Murtagh?

But my main reaction to this episode is that Sam Heughan is fine-looking man and an amazing actor. 

Okay, off to watch again.  Wheeee, what a ride!

[AD55]

33 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I thought that was kind of the point.  At the beginning of the season Brianna wasn't sure of her feelings for Roger.  He followed her back to the 18th Century, and she realized just how much he had done for her and how much he loved her, and that was a turning point for her.  She is soon raped, finds her father and has time at the Ridge to think about things and realize how much she does love him.  All this time she things he left her and returned to the 20th century only to find that her own father had beaten him to within and inch of his life and her cousin sold him into slavery.  And still, he returned to her.  How much more deserved could her feelings possibly be?

They've both been through hell and back (and have more hell yet to come).  But they are finally together and both want the same thing.

I don't care how "cliche" her running to him was.  I thought it spoke volumes about her feelings for him.

I knew that moment was going to be called out as cheesy and unearned, and there's justification for that, but I think what you say makes a lot of sense, too. Whatever, I needed to see those two have a moment of joy after all they've been through, and Richard really needed a hug. He hasn't seen anyone who cares about him even remotely for months, with the possible exception of Claire. And this is one of the few scenes in which I think Sophie sold it. Her feelings for Roger have always seemed lukewarm to me. It's also a scene in which she had almost no dialogue, further support for the "she can't act and do an accent at the same time" theory.

I found Roger's beating Jamie while Jamie just took it to be jarring and out of character for both of them. Even if you rationalize that Jamie believes he owes it to Roger to let him have a bit of his own back, I don't buy he's thinking that logically after having just lost Ian. I could see Roger hauling off and slugging Jamie once but I can't envision his character delivering a sustained pummeling to someone who isn't fighting back. Where's the satisfaction in that? I did love Catriona's disgusted expression, though. You could almost see her thinking, "listen asswit, I've been on Team Roger for the past few episodes, but your beating up my husband when he isn't resisting is making me wish I'd sat this one out." 

Edited January 27, 2019 by AD55

[SoTheresThat]

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

That was incredible!!! 

It was so hard to watch the goodbyes with Ian, but wow!  The pride on Ian's face when he realizes he made it through the Gauntlet!!!  Priceless!

He looked like a totally different person after he made it through.  I had to pause on him and convince myself that it was the same actor (even though I knew that it was).

 

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Murtagh and Jocasta :-)  (Can't believe the writers thought no one would see that coming.)

They don't give us much credit, do they?

 

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I went into this episode expecting to pleased with the season finale.  So far, I've been very happy with how they tied everything together ... even when the penultimate episode leaves me thinking, "How the heck are they going to be able to fit everything into the last episode."  But, wow, they really blew me away with this one!

Amazing finale!!!

I'm a huge fan of the books, but I've been kind of disappointed in the whole series so far.  But at the same time, I just can't not watch.  This was my favorite episode of the whole series.  It was amazing!

[nodorothyparker]

6 hours ago, AD55 said:

I found Roger's beating Jamie while Jamie just took it to be jarring and out of character for both of them. Even if you rationalize that Jamie believes he owes it to Roger to let him have a bit of his own back, I don't buy he's thinking that logically after having just lost Ian. I could see Roger hauling off and slugging Jamie once but I can't envision his character delivering a sustained pummeling to someone who isn't fighting back.

I thought it went on a little long too, but I did like that beat at the end where it was clear Jamie was just letting Roger wear himself out and then held him in his arms for a moment.  You could almost see Jamie thinking that he understood Roger had just come out of this horribly long traumatizing ordeal and needed that small comfort.  I also like that they didn't have to write dialogue to get that point across.

The big swelling music run to each other would probably bother me less if at any point the show had been able to sell me Roger and Bree's amazing love or at least that they have any chemistry.  Instead we've gotten most of a season of the characters separately telling other characters no really, we do so have it.  That really falls under one of those classic show don't tell rules for TV.   I can see the idea that it was as much about Roger needing something from someone who cared about him after all this time as anything as that plays into my earlier point about his scene with Jamie.  If he's made the decision to give up his whole life in the future to live among this family going forward, he needs to be feeling accepted and cared about.

[GingerMarie]

Well the writers continue to come through....They managed to shock me with the J&M hook up.  Was not expecting that but it was perfect.  I know some don't feel Brianna (SS) has  good enough acting skills but she KILLED it to me.  She has been strong this entire season.  The look on her face when she first saw her baby , her interaction with C&J and when she finally made it to Roger.  She has come into her own as they say.  The Mohawk village was yet again beautiful and I loved every minute of those scenes.  Ian, well I cried big tears, he is a young man anyone would be proud of.  It was great to see him mature the last 2 seasons.  Roger, I have been a fan of his from the beginning and was OK with him waiting awhile to clear his head before coming to Brianna.  That was a lot to take in.  Claire and Jamie still have it.  They are in perfect harmony with each other.  So happy they did not have us wait for another to see that Roger and Brianna made it back together.  Now everyone heads up to Fraser's Ridge.  I loved this season.  PEACE

[shelen]

Totally agree with you nodorothyparker.  Jamie's a man's man and understands why Roger needs to pummel him or else animosity would always fester between them.  Roger needed to show Jamie he has fight left in him, too.

I felt the writers did justice to the heart of the story and the finale was well done..  However, I do wish there was some dialogue between Jamie and Brianna in resolving their conflict, but a smile can go a long way.  And I did miss the sweeping panoramic views the way seasons 1-3 ended.

Being a woman of a certain age (64 in two days), I enjoyed seeing a mature loving relationship unfold between Murtaugh and Jocasta.  

It's a long wait until The Gathering....

[AD55]

35 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I thought it went on a little long too, but I did like that beat at the end where it was clear Jamie was just letting Roger wear himself out and then held him in his arms for a moment.  You could almost see Jamie thinking that he understood Roger had just come out of this horribly long traumatizing ordeal and needed that small comfort.  I also like that they didn't have to write dialogue to get that point across.

The big swelling music run to each other would probably bother me less if at any point the show had been able to sell me Roger and Bree's amazing love or at least chemistry.  Instead we've gotten most of a season of the characters separately telling other characters no really, we do so have it.  That really falls under one of those classic show don't tell rules for TV.   I can see the idea that it was as much about Roger needing something from someone who cared about him after all this time as anything as that plays into my earlier point about his scene with Jamie.  If he's made the decision to give up his whole life in the future to live among this family going forward, he needs to be feeling accepted and cared about.

What you say about the Roger and Jamie "fight" makes a lot of sense. I buy that Roger sincerely loves Bree, but Bree has always seemed at best lukewarm about him. At most, she likes being the nerdy Scottish guy's crush. She would never marry him if they had stayed in the C20th. I'm a long way from this book, but I think that's how I felt when I was reading it, too. Their passionate reunion didn't make sense, but I suspended my disbelief because I wanted it for Roger and hell, for me, too. It's been a traumatic last few episodes.

Unrelated, but am I alone in not enjoying the Murtagh/Jocasta love affair? I can't get past that she's a slave owner. I don't care about her, and I want her out of Murtagh's story.

[nodorothyparker]

Murtagh and Jocasta having a fling doesn't bother me.  If the show turned it into a serious relationship or tried to plug Murtagh into the Duncan Innes role, it would.  Because Murtagh spent a lot of years not being free.  I did like that he reminded Jocasta this episode that he didn't come to America of his own free choice.  Unless the show is trying to make Murtagh pretty situational about what he takes issue with, which would feel even more out of character after having smartly plugged him in as a composite Regulator nursing all those old grievances against the British, I would be inclined to think there's no way he could have a long running or permanent entanglement with someone who owns other people.

But I realize the show may surprise me on this.  People of the time did manage to spout lots of revolutionary rhetoric about liberty and freedom while owning or condoning slavery, and while "modern woman" Brianna's not really been in a position to even be as strident about it as Claire was on her initial visit to River Run she's been portrayed as almost painfully indifferent on the entire subject.

[AD55]

12 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

But I realize the show may surprise me on this.  People of the time did manage to spout lots of revolutionary rhetoric about liberty and freedom while owning or condoning slavery, and while "modern woman" Brianna's not really been in a position to even be as strident about it as Claire was on her initial visit to River Run she's been portrayed as almost painfully indifferent on the entire subject.

Yeah, Brianna's indifference is a problem for me, too. The show, like the book and frankly most of television and movies, has not been good on issues of race. Am I correct in remembering that Book Jocasta has sex with Ulysses? Man, I hope they leave that out. If the show offers up a sexual relationship between a slave owner and a slave as consensual, I will be done with it.

Edited January 27, 2019 by AD55

[ruby24]

I also wonder what they're going to do about the Jocasta/Ulysses thing. I assumed they would have Murtaugh take the place of Duncan as far as the Jocasta marriage went, but that was portrayed in the book as a friendship/arrangement, because of her longstanding relationship with Ulysses, that was revealed later. (And then Duncan's thing with Phaedre- that's hard to imagine being replaced with Murtagh, isn't it?)

I don't know- it could be that they don't want to include the Phaedre/Ulysses stuff altogether, because it's uncomfortable subject matter due to the slave/master situation. In the book it's portrayed as mutual between both couples, but we all know that's a controversial issue now and that any sexual relationship between slaves and masters is considered rape. So they may not want to go there. 

I wish they had had Jame and Claire there for the birth, like they were in the book. 

[nodorothyparker]

Yep.  I want to say it's two books from now where we find out that Jocasta and Ulysses have had a long running sexual relationship, but they'll argue that it's okay because she wrote out his freedom papers for him to hold so he could leave if he ever wanted to do so.  That's right before they flee with the rest of the Loyalists to British Canada.

[cardigirl]

39 minutes ago, shelen said:

Being a woman of a certain age (64 in two days), I enjoyed seeing a mature loving relationship unfold between Murtaugh and Jocasta.  

It's a long wait until The Gathering....

Happy birthday!!! I’ll join you in that ‘certain age’ in a couple of months. 🎉

[ruby24]

Yeah, and if they do want to include that part between Jocasta and Ulysses, it already changes it to have her be in a real romance with Murtagh now. So, maybe they're just planning to not have that in there.

[toolazy]

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I'm very curious what you mean by that.  I don't know what you felt needed to be earned or by whom.

We haven't seen enough of Bree and Roger being happy together as a couple, for one thing. Every time we've seen them recently, they had fights.  He was a dick to her more than once. What does she see in him?  I at least wanted some conversation, maybe an apology from Roger before it got all sappy.  But no, they went right to the sap. 

[SoTheresThat]

Considering how much ground they have to cover in only 13ish (do we know yet how many season 5 will have?) episodes, would it be detrimental to the whole story to leave out Jocasta being married and having a sexual relationship with Ulysses?  It's been a few years since I've read the books, so I can't remember all of what happens down the line, but how much would really it affect Jamie and Claire's story and also the overall story of the series if they left those things out? 

[AheadofStraight]

10 minutes ago, SoTheresThat said:

Considering how much ground they have to cover in only 13ish (do we know yet how many season 5 will have?) episodes, would it be detrimental to the whole story to leave out Jocasta being married and having a sexual relationship with Ulysses?  It's been a few years since I've read the books, so I can't remember all of what happens down the line, but how much would really it affect Jamie and Claire's story and also the overall story of the series if they left those things out? 

Next season will drop down to 12 episodes.

I'm far enough from reading this book that i enjoyed it and I've reconciled with Murtagh still being here and even getting a cliffhanger. Everyone speculated that he might be replacing Duncan so their hook up didn't surprise me and it will be interesting to see where it goes. Guessing people were happy that the "testosterone poisoning" line didn't make  it in. ;)

[WatchrTina]

GENERAL

Well done show! I doubted that you would be able to wrap it all up, but you did it.

 

THE GOOD

Wow they kicked us in the guts before the opening credits.  They used that musical theme – the one I think of as the “heart-broken Claire theme” – the one they played when she returned home from the hospital in Paris after the still-birth of baby Faith – and played it over the “Previously-on” scenes.  Way to set us up for an emotional episode, show!

At first I was ready to put the title card in the “Bad” section because I thought it was a trite commentary on the history of native Americans BUT THEN I SAW THE OPAL AND REALISED THAT IS OTTER TOOTH!  Whoa! Nicely played.

I liked how the Chief starts off the negotiations by utterly dismissing the value of their “trinkets” and the booze.  I like the depiction of his being as canny a negotiator as Highlanders were reckoned to be and I also liked his not being super-excited about the booze (in contrast to a certain scene from the books.)

At first I scoffed that the lead female Mohawk character would able to get men to follow her. I assumed that native American tribes were as patriarchal as other societies of that era and I didn’t get any sense that she was a medicine woman or had particularly high status within the tribe that would allow her to lead an insurrection like that.  But on second viewing I heard her say that she is the granddaughter of a chief (the one who was chief when Otter Tooth showed up) so I can fan-wank that she IS one of the keepers of flame of the warning from Otter Tooth and that she did have sufficient status to lead men in that time and that place.

I loved the scene of Rollo in the canoe.  In fact I just generally appreciate the effort that was made to clarify why Rollo wasn’t in the fight (he was tied up) and that he was uninjured at the end (so Ian still has his furry friend.)

The book does a great job of describing the chaos that erupted when the Mohawk burned the priest and his lover walked into the flames. In the book Roger only hears most of it and then, after breaking out of the Idiot Hut and getting caught up in the melee, Roger wakes up back inside the hut . . . with Jamie. As much as I love the book version I think the show did a pretty good job of depicting an alternative take on that chaotic scene – this time with two factions within the tribe coming to blows over an attempt to release a prisoner.  (But see below for related bad moments that followed).

I’ve read the book so as soon as Jamie offered to swap himself for Roger I knew what was going to happen but I applaud that change from the book.  I love that it made Ian’s sacrifice -- his decision to stay with the tribe -- that much more heroic. And I don’t even care that the whole scene was stolen from the movie “The Last of the Mohicans” (in which the British interpreter offers himself to be killed in the place of a young English woman instead of offering up Hawkeye as Hawkeye instructed.)

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how Sam Heughan is the king of the single tear? (Sigh.)

Okay, moving on, I mentioned last week how one of my favorite episodes in the book is that moment when Roger & Jamie “step outside” and finally come to blows.  I’m SO glad we got to see it.  I'm also glad that – after Roger throws that last, late punch – Jamie clarifies that the free pass is over and he’ll be answering with own his fists if Roger tries that again.

I also loved the way the Jamie/Roger fight is inter-cut with Ian’s trip through the gauntlet. And I love that Ian wasn’t shown to be some kind of unrealistic action hero.  Instead he’s depicted as slippery as an eel and full of youthful vigor, which was much more realistic.  Similarly I liked that Roger (who is – let’s face it – a mess at this point) gets winded and runs out of steam pretty quickly when he’s hitting Jamie.

Have we ever seen Ian smile like that before?  If so, I can’t remember it.  He’s careened from one disaster to another over the past two seasons so it’s really nice to see his joyful reaction at being welcomed into the tribe.

 

Roger definitely gets the best two lines of the show:

“Having me beaten and sold into slavery seemed a trifle excessive even for a woman of her temper."

“Misunderstanding?!!! Claire!”

 

I loved watching Roger’s face as he reacts to the news that Brianna’s baby might not be his. Bravo!  It was also a nice call-back to that scene in season one when Frank first learns that Claire is pregnant and reacts with joy before the sickening realization comes into his face.

And ooooooh I love the next moment.  Some of y’all have complained about the wig Sam is wearing but I have to say that when Jamie goes into full PapaBear mode – demanding to know if Roger is going to stand by Brianna – well, he has never looked more hot.  I mean HAWT.  Damn. I need some ice water.

How heartbreaking was Brianna’s reunion with her parents?  All those mixed emotions! Brianna’s joy, then fear that Roger is dead, shifting to heartbreak that he’s alive but stayed away. And under all that is their mutual joy at seeing one another alive and well – Jamie & Claire back from a dangerous journey – Brianna and her child safely brought through the dangers of 18th century childbirth.

That moment when Jamie and Murtagh talk about Bonnet made me laugh.  “I’m only sorry you didn’t get to kill him with your own hands.” “So am I.”  Oh you two . . . Ya’ll both SAW Black Jack Randall trampled by cattle during a jail-break and he still managed to come back to plague you.  Have you learned NOTHING?  

And finally, the ending.  This show! We just can’t have nice things, can we? We get the Brianna/Roger reunion (which, according to the afterword, they were actually thinking of NOT including in this season) but sheesh, they don't even make it to the house before . . . Redcoats!  And are they after Murtagh?  NOOOOOOOO, it’s like that damn letter from Prince Charlie all over again . . . an official proclamation dragging Jamie into an armed conflict on the wrong damned side and now HE'S supposed to go after Murtagh.  What a way to end the season.  It's great . . . and it makes me want to tear my hair out at the same time.

 

THE BAD

Claire taking off that nasty, sweaty scarf that she’s been wearing non-stop for two months to offer it in trade rang a false note with me.  I know they wanted a “reveal” for the big opal but . . . ew. That scarf was nasty.

Jocasta & Murtagh.  Okay I WANT to like this turn of events and I can appreciate the desire to depict the fits and starts of these two crotchety characters’ bumpy mutual seduction.  But in the end, it didn’t’ really work for me.  I can’t figure out how they got from Jocasta accusing Murtagh of duplicitous, mercenary motives (“Scheming!”) and then throwing a drink in his face when he calls her a “lunatic” (a tragic waste of good whiskey that was) to the two of them in bed.  Mind you, I LOVED that morning after / come-back-to-bed scene. Murtgah, in particular was looking mighty fine with his shirt off (and what a tragic waste it is that Jocasta can’t see him). But ultimately the bedroom reveal felt like a gimmick -- like the show-runners were saying “Gotcha!”

I was able to wrap my brain around the idea that there is a faction within the tribe that still remembers and heeds the warning of Otter Tooth (see above) but even so I thought it was really weird for Claire to tell them “We will help you preserve the memory of the man who fought for your future.”  WTF?  The way he wanted to fight for their future was by killing all the white people so that’s a really weird thing for Claire to say.   I feel like the writers were just trying to give “Team Otter Tooth” a reason to NOT kill Jamie, Claire & Ian once they retrieved the opal (and a pretty lame reason at that.)  I’d have preferred it if Claire’s vision of Otter Tooth was the reason they showed restraint and didn’t simply take the opal.  In fact, I think that’s what they were going for but I’m not sure it came across.

I am still confused by the chief’s speech the morning after the failed rescue attempt  He banishes the woman who stirred up all the trouble but before he does that he says “I banished these people.”  Is he talking about Jamie, Claire & Ian? Or is he talking about the other people who helped them?  Okay he MUST be talking about Jamie, Claire & Ian because if not – why would he let the other people who helped them stay?  The fact that I’m figuring all this out now – doing a write-up after two viewings – indicates that that speech was confusing.

I do not understand why Jamie looks cheerful as he talks about having to tell Jenny about Ian’s decision to stay.  I recollect that as being one of the hardest letters he ever has to write (in the book) and on screen it feels like their tearful leave-taking JUST HAPPENED.  I would have expected Jamie to still look sad at that point.  I think the writers wanted Roger to have something to react to and Jamie's cheerfulness is what provokes him into attacking Jamie.  But that moment rang false to me.

 

THE UGLY

Otter Tooth’s life story.  It doesn't get much more tragic than that.

 

OTHER

The tribe in this episode is repeatedly identified as Mohawk but there is one point where someone makes reference to the Iriquois. This confused me so off I went to Wikipedia which clarified that  "One of the five original members of the Iroquois League, the Mohawk were known as the Keepers of the Eastern Door. For hundreds of years, they guarded the Iroquois Confederation against invasion from that direction by tribes from the New England and lower New York areas."

Edited January 29, 2019 by WatchrTina

[greenhouse]

That home-birth were the woman isn't on a high after delivery and doesn't meet her baby until they are both cleaned up and rested... hmm. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by greenhouse

[Trillian]

6 hours ago, Nidratime said:

Initially, the title card was interesting and I thought it was just to represent, generally, the fall out of two centuries of horrendous treatment of Native Americans that has been whitewashed. But, when they began the Otter Tooth story at the Mohawk Village, I let out a "Oh, hey!"That guy in the title card was Otter Tooth! (It looks like he, too, came from the period around 1950's/1960's.) Did you all know that it was him immediately? They got me there, and I've read the book!

I didn’t. I thought it was, for some inexplicable reason, Tobias Menzies dressed as an indigenous person (take a good look at the actor - there is some resemblance there!).  I hate-read the books, skimming huge portions of them (while muttering under my breath “this woman is not an historian”), so it is entirely plausible in my universe that Frank would be stalking Clare in native costume. Oh crap:  I hope I didn’t just give Gabaldon an idea for her next book. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

How heartbreaking was Brianna’s reunion with her parents?  All those mixed emotions! Brianna’s joy, then fear that Roger is dead, shifting to heartbreak that he’s alive but stayed away. And under all that is their mutual joy at seeing one another alive and well – Jamie & Claire back from a dangerous journey – Brianna and her child safely brought through the dangers of 18th century childbirth.

I was thrilled that Jamie not only got to meet and be with his infant grandson, but that he can openly acknowledge, to all and sundry, that this baby is his grandchild. It's a lovely combination of Jamie being near and around Willie in his early years, helping to raise him but not being able to claim him, and his eventual meeting with Brianna where he could publicly acknowledge his daughter to the world.

Hey, I have a beautiful grandbaby world!

Edited January 28, 2019 by Nidratime

[Thalia]

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I do not understand why Jamie looks cheerful as he talks about having to tell Jenny about Ian’s decision to stay.  I recollect that as being one of the hardest letters he ever has to write (in the book) and on screen it feels like their tearful leave-taking JUST HAPPENED.  I would have expected Jamie to still look sad at that point.  

This really bothered me.  The lad just wants a little "adventure"?  The Mohawk clearly tortured and nearly killed Roger.  And Jamie isn't worrying just a wee bit about leaving Ian in their hands?

I also agree that Ian glowed after passing through the gauntlet.  Roger selling aside, I love that kid.  Thankfully, I've read the upcoming books and, unlike Jamie, I know what is going to happen in the near future. 

[anamika]

I thought that John Bell who plays Ian also did a wonderful job this season. He brought an honest earnestness to the character that made him very lovable and yes, his joy at the end was very palpable. That's what makes this show entertaining - the beautiful scenery and the wonderful actors.

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

But I realize the show may surprise me on this.  People of the time did manage to spout lots of revolutionary rhetoric about liberty and freedom while owning or condoning slavery, and while "modern woman" Brianna's not really been in a position to even be as strident about it as Claire was on her initial visit to River Run she's been portrayed as almost painfully indifferent on the entire subject.

Everytime we cut to River Run, I am taken out of the scenes there by the slaves in the background or Ulysses in the Jocasta scenes. I realize that's the nature of the story and the series, but it still makes me uncomfortable that our main characters, the good guys, are so nonchalant about the whole thing.

I guess with Brianna we could hand wave it away as her growing up in 1960's - 1970's America where African-Americans were still second class citizens and subject to Jim Crow laws in the south. But I would like at least one of the characters to acknowledge how all these people there - including Phaedre - have no freedom and no choice being at River Run. Having recently suffered at the hands of slavery and captivity himself, I would think that Roger would be that character and have some introspection and self reflection about the slaves at Riverrun - but from the books, it looks like that does not happen either.

Edited January 28, 2019 by anamika

[Ziggy]

6 hours ago, toolazy said:

We haven't seen enough of Bree and Roger being happy together as a couple, for one thing. Every time we've seen them recently, they had fights.  He was a dick to her more than once. What does she see in him?  I at least wanted some conversation, maybe an apology from Roger before it got all sappy.  But no, they went right to the sap. 

I guess I'm ok with Brianna realizing over time just how much she loves Roger and how much he's done for her and suffered because of her and for those emotions to be something she's trying desperately not to feel.  She kept hoping Jamie and Claire would find him, but was afraid to hope.  Jamie and Claire finally returned, but they returned without him.  Now she needs to be strong and accept her reality, so she's working even harder to not think about him and not feel.  Then she sees him, and all those feelings just come rushing to the surface.

I don't know, I guess a part of me would have been disappointed if she didn't have that big rush of emotions.

[Megan]

7 hours ago, AD55 said:

She would never marry him if they had stayed in the C20th.

 

And she shouldn't have because through the last book I maintain my stance that Roger is a dumb ass bitch.

He sucks. And is she not an engineer in the show? She seems to be only about drawing?

The show made Roger slightly more sympathetic. But not much, it still made him seem more upset that another man had touched Briana and how that made him feel inadequate than being upset that she was fucking raped and traumatized. 1770 1970. I hates him. He suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

[cesstar]

10 hours ago, Ziggy said:

11 hours ago, cesstar said:

I didn't feel that her dramatic run towards him was earned at all ... "

I'm very curious what you mean by that.  I don't know what you felt needed to be earned or by whom.

As a viewer I didn't feel invested enough in their relationship to be emotionally moved by the moment (which was clearly directed to be seen as a big climatic scene). To pull off a dramatic run to your loved one reunion without looking cliche or overly sappy I feel like you need to really believe in the relationship. For me personally, I haven't seen enough of them together to understand why they love each other. They have spent most of their relationship apart, she rejected his marriage proposal and he basically slut shamed her, then she goes back in time and he follows her, convinces her to marry him for reasons I don't feel were made particularly clear, they then fight straight away, he leaves and now she knows that after being rescued he had to think about whether to even come back for her after knowing she'd been brutally raped.... I don't see some epic love story there so the reunion, filmed as it was, didn't really work for me personally.

[Biggie B]

I didn't realize the Native American man in the opening scene was Otter Tooth. 

I half expected Jamie and Claire offer the banished tribeswoman to come with them. 

The farewell to Ian was heartbreaking, even having read the books and knowing how things go. The actor delivered a strong and emotional performance. So often, the only facial expression we've seen on Ian is that of worry or stress, with a furrowed brow and a downturned mouth. To see him bursting with relief and pride after the gauntlet, smiling with his whole body, was a welcome and needed balm. Rollo in the canoe was everything. What a gorgeous animal. 

Murtagh with his hair down - HOT HOT HOT.  

As for Brianna and Roger - whatever. Their reunion was a bit sappy but eh, I was OK with it. Brianna had 9 months of missing him - and then another two months after the baby was born - and likely spent all of that time building up her feelings for him. The thought of returning to Brianna is pretty much what kept Roger going during his captivity. I never cared for either character that strongly while reading the books, but the actor playing Roger is doing a fine job with a character that I sometimes want to slap senseless. 

When is the next season due to start, in 2020? I'm considering re-reading some of the books, it's been so long. But I sort of enjoy watching not remembering everything as well. It's sort of liberating - I can just let the show wash over me. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Biggie B

[vesperholly]

9 hours ago, AD55 said:

What you say about the Roger and Jamie "fight" makes a lot of sense. I buy that Roger sincerely loves Bree, but Bree has always seemed at best lukewarm about him. At most, she likes being the nerdy Scottish guy's crush. She would never marry him if they had stayed in the C20th. I'm a long way from this book, but I think that's how I felt when I was reading it, too. Their passionate reunion didn't make sense, but I suspended my disbelief because I wanted it for Roger and hell, for me, too. It's been a traumatic last few episodes.

Agree completely. I absolutely believe in Roger's love for Bree, but Bree has never convinced me that she fell in love with him back. This is probably simply because Richard Rankin is a much better actor than Sophie Skelton. The way he was shaking when they embraced ... Sophie just stared at him and then "you're back" with a blank face.

I super squeed when Jocasta and Murtagh was revealed. Get it, girl.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, Trillian said:

I didn’t. I thought it was, for some inexplicable reason, Tobias Menzies dressed as an indigenous person (take a good look at the actor - there is some resemblance there!).  I hate-read the books, skimming huge portions of them (while muttering under my breath “this woman is not an historian”), so it is entirely plausible in my universe that Frank would be stalking Clare in native costume. Oh crap:  I hope I didn’t just give Gabaldon an idea for her next book. 

The woman wasn't Claire either.

22 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Who is Fitzgibbons the Redcoats want Jamie to hunt down? 

Jamie read "Murtagh Fitzgibbons". That's what he's been going by in America this season, on the wanted posters and whenever Governor Tryon referred to him. Since it's his middle name, from his mother's maiden name. He really shouldn't have any practical reason to hide the Fraser part, but for plot reasons it justifies Tyron not asking if they're related.

[TaurusRose]

I really haven’t had much to say about Outlander this season.  There have been some nice moments mixed in with the why am I watching this? moments.

Leave it to Claire to cause a problem. Have no idea what the deal is with the stone she was wearing.  Could be explained in the books I never read and have no intention of reading, or could have been explained somewhere in the slog of this season and I forgot.  Either way the bottom line is the same.  It’s Claire fault again.  LOL

Okay, stone explained along with the ghost of the man she saw when she was lost in the woods.  Good story. Bummer that the one woman who was instrumental in them getting Roger got booted out of the Mohawk village.

I love Ian and his parting scene with Jamie and Claire was very, very moving.  Well done by all. Will we ever see him again?

Murtagh was looking mighty fine in Jocasta’s bed.  That is all.

Ian fared way better than Roger running the gauntlet and he’s an adopted Mohawk, not a slave.  Yay!  Hope Roger enjoyed his beat down of Jamie because that probably won’t happen again.

Roger came back.  I’m really happy about that and enjoyed his reunion with Brianna.  This was may be the best episode of the season.  I really liked it.

[Cdh20]

3 hours ago, Thalia said:

This really bothered me.  The lad just wants a little "adventure"?  The Mohawk clearly tortured and nearly killed Roger.  And Jamie isn't worrying just a wee bit about leaving Ian in their hands?

 (Haven't read this book yet). We've seen how captivated Ian has been with the natives all season, so I expected him to run off with them, or get a native wife anytime soon!

2 hours ago, anamika said:

I thought that John Bell who plays Ian also did a wonderful job this season. He brought an honest earnestness to the character that made him very lovable and yes, his joy at the end was very palpable

Ditto!

4 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I was thrilled that Jamie not only got to meet and be with his infant grandson, but that he can openly acknowledge, to all and sundry, that this baby is his grandchild. It's a lovely combination of Jamie being near and around Willie in his early years, helping to raise him but not being able to claim him, and his eventual meeting with Brianna where he could publicly acknowledge his daughter to the world.

Hey, I have a beautiful grandbaby world!

When Claire said to Jocasta "Do you want to hold the baby?" I screamed -give that baby to grandda Jamie!  I so expected him to be present for his birth as he missed out on Faith's & Bree's (this somehow made me so sad)! 

8 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

“Having me beaten and sold into slavery seemed a trifle excessive even for a woman of her temper."

Best line of the night!