S02.E02: New Eden

[Bort]

Quote

An extinction-level event threatens a community of humans, prompting the Discovery crew to race to save them.

Airdate: Thursday, January 24, 2019

[starri]

"I was raised on Vulcan.  We don't do funny."

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, the Red Angel of Doom has been around several hundred years.  What exactly was the purpose of stealing a church full of people from Earth from 200 years ago ?  Just because.

It seems oddly coincidental that the Discovery shows up at that planet just as an E.L.E. occurs.  They never did find out what caused or triggered the radioactive ring elements to rain down towards the planet -- it just kind of happened.

And Tilly is seeing a dead person from her past in a Starfleet uniform -- is it just her imagination, or a manifestation of the dark matter asteroid, or a manifestation of the Red Angel of Doom ?

[vibeology]

I loved this episode. I loved watching everyone on Discovery work together to stop the ring. It was thrilling watching everyone come together and use their unique skills to solve a problem. This is the first time I felt like this crew is a team. I love that Keyla got a moment to shine. She was particularly under-served last season considering her back story.

Captain Pike is wonderful. I am a little in love. He exudes compassion and intelligence. He worked so well with Michael and Joann. And there was not a second of hesitation in saving that child. 

The mystery or mysteries are so much more engaging this year too. Why are our crew members seeing dead people? Who or what are the Angels? I am less interested in what's going on with Spock but if they can tie that into the other mysteries, then I think it'll be worth it.

[ottoDbusdriver]

14 minutes ago, vibeology said:

Captain Pike is wonderful. I am a little in love. He exudes compassion and intelligence. He worked so well with Michael and Joann. And there was not a second of hesitation in saving that child. 

He's starting to grow on me as well.

Saru: "Questions or concerns before we depart, Captain ?"
Pike: "If you're telling me that this ship can skip across the universe on a highway made of mushrooms, I kind of have to go on faith."

ETA: Job well done by Jonathan Frakes, Commander Riker himself, in the director's chair for this episode.

Edited January 25, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[marinw]

26 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Commander Riker himself, in the director's chair for this episode.

He's been directing for some time.

I liked this Episode too. I find Pike very likable, and I felt for poor Jacob.

[UNOSEZ]

Real fun episode... Not sure why Tilly is seeing her schoolmate.. But I think she"Lloyd be back next episode so maybe they'll explain why here of all ppl and why she's in a starfleet uni

[xaxat]

I thought this was a very good episode. The religion vs science theme was handled really well. Imagine if you suddenly found yourself on an earth comparable world right now. Would you believe in science or religion? And the discussion of Clarke's third law was a great setup for it.

Saru's short Trek was a great companion to Jacob's story. I was so glad that Jacob got the closure he was looking for.

Tilly is awesome. She has chemistry with everyone.

Looks like a lot of reunions next week.

[jcin617]

Great episode.  I’m really liking Pike.   Speaking of, if Captain Pike said the Prime Directive applied to the humans on the planet, wouldn’t it have also applied when it came to saving them from the radioactive fallout?    Maybe it was deemed mission critical since they hadn’t determined why the red signal brought them there in the first place (and assumed it was to save them).

Edited January 25, 2019 by jcin617

[thuganomics85]

Hey, Andrew Moodie!  I believe he is required to be in every sci-fi show ever (Dark Matter, Orphan Black, Salvation, etc.)

Thought this episode did a good job with the main story both continuing the arc from the premiere, but having some good standalone/"mission of the week" stuff too.  I always like it when Trek and whatnot goes into the debates over meeting a civilization that is not as advanced as them, and having to hide who they really are.  Factor in this one actually being humans from Earth whose ancestors were taken, and it adds an extra wrinkle into everything.

As much as I miss Culber and hopes he comes back, I'm highly enjoying Dr. Pollard and her annoyed reactions to everyone else.  She is so over this crew consistently hurting themselves!

Tilly is seeing dead people?!  Hmm...

Pike continues to be a good fit and interacts well with the rest of the crew.

Glad the secondary/bridge crew seems to be getting a bit more fleshed out now.

[Vandy10]

That was a really fun episode. Tilly's always been great, but I think Dettmer is running a close second for me.

I totally disagree with Pike's interpretation of the Prime Directive needing to be applied to humans, but the Prime Directive's always been loosely written to fit the story it needs to serve.

[Helena Dax]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

It seems oddly coincidental that the Discovery shows up at that planet just as an E.L.E. occurs.  They never did find out what caused or triggered the radioactive ring elements to rain down towards the planet -- it just kind of happened.

And Tilly is seeing a dead person from her past in a Starfleet uniform -- is it just her imagination, or a manifestation of the dark matter asteroid, or a manifestation of the Red Angel of Doom ?

I think the beings behind the explosions of energy were trying to attract the Discovery to the planet exactly because it was going to be destroyed by the E.L.E, so no coincidence at all imo. Which is weird because I don't get why beings with such powers would need the Fleet's help, but ok.

It was boring, anyway. I just can't help waiting for Spock. 

[MissLucas]

That was very enjoyable. I'm also sensing a Pike-crush coming. The whole faith vs. science theme was impressively handled - it's so easy to mess that up. I particularly liked Burnham following orders and at the end even going so far as asking for prayers for another deliverance despite her uneasiness about the situation. Pike acknowledging what she did and her weary admission that she learned to obey orders the hard way was a great scene that put their relationship on a solid basis.

Oh Tilly, how I love to see your glorious hair down! When Not-May made her first appearance I thought how nice it was that we got to see a new face but after their second meeting my spidey senses were triggered - so no big surprise there. I hope Tilly doesn't keep that secret for too long - but since Stamets talked about seeing his dead hubby she might be thinking that she had a similar experience. Maybe it's the same but I have my doubts - Tilly had conversations with the Red Angel (for lack of a better term) directing her to a solution for the immense problems the Discovery was facing. Dead hubby was more trippy IIRC.

Miscellaneous goodies: Saru and Tilly. Pike's reacton to the spore drive. Dr. Pollard and her robust bedside manner. Burnham cracking a joke about not being funny, followed by a smile. Detmer being a badass and doing a donut in space. Everybody on the bridge had a line and Pike even remembered Airiam's name. Owosekun got something to do beyond the bridge and she grew up in a Luddite collective!

Random notes: I'd like to meet Spock now (since I haven't seen Ethan Peck since '10 Things I Hate About You''). And Michael, with that first name you really shouldn't be that dismissive of angels.

[mrspidey]

17 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

It seems oddly coincidental that the Discovery shows up at that planet just as an E.L.E. occurs.  They never did find out what caused or triggered the radioactive ring elements to rain down towards the planet -- it just kind of happened.

I don't think this was a coincidence. The signal popped up after they were done with the first one. I think they're being led on a breadcrump hunt as some sort of test. The E.L.E and what they did about it was probably the test.

And for the record, it was a test that Picard would've failed miserably. Yeah, Jean Luc, I still remember how you just stood by and let an entire planet die from an E.L.E. because of your hardon for the Prime Directive. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by mrspidey

[Ceindreadh]

17 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Great episode.  I’m really liking Pike.   Speaking of, if Captain Pike said the Prime Directive applied to the humans on the planet, wouldn’t it have also applied when it came to saving them from the radioactive fallout?    Maybe it was deemed mission critical since they hadn’t determined why the red signal brought them there in the first place (and assumed it was to save them).

The Prime Directive prevents them from influencing the natural development of a pre-warp culture, so beaming the inhabitants off the planet to save them wouldn’t be allowed. Or indeed any sort of intervention that would have exposed their presence to the population. Since they were able to save the day without making the humans on the planet aware of it, I don’t think the Directive was broken. 

(Who knows how many times Earth has been saved from ELE’s by kindly aliens! 😜)

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 1/25/2019 at 3:45 PM, mrspidey said:

I don't think this was a coincidence. The signal popped up after they were done with the first one. I think they're being led on a breadcrump hunt as some sort of test. The E.L.E and what they did about it was probably the test.

And for the record, it was a test that Picard would've failed miserably. Yeah, Jean Luc, I still remember how you just stood by and let an entire planet die from an E.L.E. because of your hardon for the Prime Directive. 

 

That's the thing -- since the E.L.E. occurred withing hours of them arriving, it means the whoever is behind the 7 signal bursts knew that Discovery had a drive capable of getting them there in time in order to stop it (a trip of 150+ years for normal warp travel).

 

Does this also mean that they are going to discover out-of-place humans at each of the 7 stops ?

Edited January 27, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[2727]

17 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Does this also means that they are going to discover out-of-place humans at each of the 7 stops ?

That hadn't occurred to me, but it is another similarity other than being sent into emergency situations where people will die without their help.

I'm interested to find out how Spock's previous investigation of the red signals and checking himself into a mental health facility will tie into this. Was glad that Burnham goddamn obeyed her captain's orders on the planet and that she decided to tell Pike about her angel vision. No dumb secret-keeping, please.

The first two eps have been fun but I kind of miss the more somber, suspenseful tone of the first season. A lot of online comments mention that season 2 is back to "classic Trek," but given a choice, I'd rather see something new. I'm probably a bit of an outlier in that regard.

[Frozendiva]

I wonder if the planet just is repeated destroyed by the nuclear winter and keeps sending out the signal to anyone passing by. Like some weird illusion.

Am liking this version of Captain Pike.

[KimberStormer]

This was the most TNG plot ever!  I guess that's fine.  I do wish it wasn't Pike in charge, though.  Seems like a step backward to me.

Do we get to discuss the previews in the episode threads?  If not where do we talk about them? 

Edited January 26, 2019 by KimberStormer

[paigow]

Too bad Burnham does not get assigned to Kirk commanded Enterprise in the next 10 years, she would definitely take him to Talos IV....

[Bort]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Do we get to discuss the previews in the episode threads?  If not where do we talk about them? 

Where No Guessing Has Gone Before: Serious Speculation

[starri]

Apparently, the notes Tilly had up on Michael's console were perfectly legible and some were quite funny.  The best was "Can anyone hear you scream in the mycelial network?"

I loved hearing Tilly refer to Owosekun as "Owo."  That sounds like something two military friends would do.

[jcin617]

19 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

The Prime Directive prevents them from influencing the natural development of a pre-warp culture, so beaming the inhabitants off the planet to save them wouldn’t be allowed. Or indeed any sort of intervention that would have exposed their presence to the population. Since they were able to save the day without making the humans on the planet aware of it, I don’t think the Directive was broken. 

Oh I agree, but I seem to recall a few TNG episodes that dealt with this very matter where they couldn't get involved in preventing a natural disaster.     Although then there was Star Trek: Into Darkness where they were trying to save a pre-warp planet without being noticed - so who knows.

[starri]

TOS saved Amerind from an asteroid in "The Paradise Syndrome."  So it seems like the PD might have been different in the 23rd century.

[cali1981]

I have really enjoyed the first two episodes. The addition of Anson Mount as Capt. Pike has been a major plus for the show. The decision to shoot this season using anamorphic lenses was a good one.  The 2.35:1 image gives the show a more cinematic look than the previous 1.78:1 image did.  I know that some don't care for the top and bottom black mattes but almost every movie is now shot in at least 2.35:1 so the mattes are pretty much standard now.  The wider image suits a show like Discovery very well.

[Latverian Diplomat]

3 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Oh I agree, but I seem to recall a few TNG episodes that dealt with this very matter where they couldn't get involved in preventing a natural disaster.     Although then there was Star Trek: Into Darkness where they were trying to save a pre-warp planet without being noticed - so who knows.

To me this is just bad writing, and writer's who don't understand the moral underpinnings and real reasons for the prime directive. Enterprise didn't really get this right either, and they were supposedly trying to explain how the Prime Directive came about in the first place.

Even the idea of a "strategic exception" Pike and Burnham discussed makes the Fed being OK with contacting pre-warp strategic-mineral-rich cultures in TOS more plausible (e.g. the Capellans, perhaps the Halkans).  

I give this show credit for drawing a distinction between intervention that could devastate a culture, and an intervention that the locals would never even be aware of, but which would do them nothing but good.

On the other hand, the resolution of the crisis really made no sense to me, technobabble and dark matter magic notwithstanding. The asteroid has a gravitational field powerful enough to vacuum up all the radioactive debris quickly and cleanly, which the ship can't match, but somehow the ship has been neutralizing all that gravity in the shuttle bay all this time, and can easily drag the asteroid through a precise maneuver around with the very tractor beams that were too weak to deal with the debris directly. That...doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[CTrent29]

Another dull ass episode.  Not only is Season Two proving to be boring as hell to me, but I also find it to be a ghost of the dynamic Season One.

[aemom]

I really hope that Season 2 is going to start having episodes that focus on the bridge crew. I would be hard pressed to remember anyone's name other than the main characters we've already been seeing. These characters seem so interesting, I want to hear their backstories.

[paigow]

16 hours ago, starri said:

TOS saved Amerind from an asteroid in "The Paradise Syndrome."  So it seems like the PD might have been different in the 23rd century.

However, Kirok used technology already provided by whoever transported the population....

15 hours ago, cali1981 said:

The addition of Anson Mount as Capt. Pike has been a major plus for the show. 

Agreed...but very weird to hear him talk so much after Hell On Wheels & Inhumans

[starri]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

However, Kirok used technology already provided by whoever transported the population....

He did, but they were on a mission to save the planet.  The Preserver tech was only used after the Enterprise failed to stop it themselves.

[statsgirl]

Is it just me or does Captain Pike strike anyone else as being too perfect?

That said, I'm enjoying this season a lost more than the first one. I didn't know how much I missed humor until they started injecting it these two episodes. This was a fun adventure and it was nice to see Andrew Moodie and again and Sheila McCarthy in a non-comedic role. I hope we see Jacob again as they hinted.

Another thing I'm enjoying is the fleshing of the non-Michael female character, here Tilly, Detmer and Owo. One of the reasons I never cared for TNG was because it was such a male-focused show and like the original TOS, the female characters were there to support the journey of the men. (How we mocked Deanna Troi in grad school!) Last season Discovery felt like it was "Michael Burnham and the boys with comic interjections by Tilly" so I'm hoping the female presence continues.

[CTrent29]

Quote

Is it just me or does Captain Pike strike anyone else as being too perfect?

 

He strikes me as being too perfect.  And I find his emotional turmoil over the Enterprise not participating in the Federation-Klingon War not particularly interesting.

 

It's odd how so many are willing to tolerate borderline idealistic male characters like Christopher Pike.  Fans tend to praise him to the sky.  But if he had been a woman, many fans would be screaming "Mary Sue".

Edited January 27, 2019 by CTrent29

[Miles]

Well that was convoluted.

Also the break of the prime directive at the end was completely unnecessary. They could have just beamed that helmet cam out. But I guess the point was that Pike just needed an excuse.

But wouldn't a better excuse have been that it's questionable if the prime directive even applies? These are humans from earth. So their society developed the warp drive. Just because they were cut off from earth doesn't change that fact. I mean let's say shortly before Zefram Cochrane developed the warp drive, a few people got stranded on a pacific island and they were only found after the warp drive was invented and the vulcans had made first contact, would that mean they couldn't get rescued because they are a pre warp society? No, that doesn't make any sense.

These are people who were kidnapped and put on another planet and deserve rescuing, not some alien species that just hasn't developed the warp drive yet. And they weren't even kidnapped hundreds of years before the warp drive or something. The drive was developed shortly after WW3 in 2063 (WW3 was 2026 - 2053). So that's well within a human lifetime. Most of the kidnapped were alive when the warp drive was invented. (see pacific island analogy)

 

On 26.1.2019 at 4:32 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

That's the thing -- since the E.L.E. occurred withing hours of them arriving, it means the whoever is behind the 7 signal bursts knew that Discovery had a drive capable of getting them there in time in order to stop it (a trip of 150+ years for normal warp travel).

Also it would have had to be sent a few thousand years ago, since signals travel at a maximum at the speed of light and the warp drive is going at a multiple of the speed of light. Though I'm not sure if the writers actually thought about that fact. Since they never mentioned it, I kinda think they didn't, which hurts my brain, because it's really, really basic stuff. Are there really no science fiction writers in the writers room? Only drama-people? God.

 

On 26.1.2019 at 9:57 PM, Latverian Diplomat said:

On the other hand, the resolution of the crisis really made no sense to me, technobabble and dark matter magic notwithstanding. The asteroid has a gravitational field powerful enough to vacuum up all the radioactive debris quickly and cleanly, which the ship can't match, but somehow the ship has been neutralizing all that gravity in the shuttle bay all this time, and can easily drag the asteroid through a precise maneuver around with the very tractor beams that were too weak to deal with the debris directly. That...doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It should make sense to nobody, because it just doesn't.

 

 

Other than all these things (which do compund and are getting annoying), I did actually like the episode. All the character-stuff was well done and fun. I just wish they'd get someone who knoww science for their science fiction show.

 

5 hours ago, CTrent29 said:

It's odd how so many are willing to tolerate borderline idealistic male characters like Christopher Pike.  Fans tend to praise him to the sky.  But if he had been a woman, many fans would be screaming "Mary Sue".

A Mary Sue is good at everything with no discernable flaws. We really haven't seen enough of Pike yet to make that call. A male Mary Sue is also often called a Gary Stu, so yes it does happen and there is even a name for it.
 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Miles

[tennisgurl]

I like Captain Pike a lot so far, even if he doesent have the complexity that Lorca had (before we found out the truth and he became a mustache twirling villain) and at times seems to be a bit too perfect, but we are just now getting to know the guy, so I will give him more time to gain more layers. He is likable and empathetic and a good leader, and it makes his eventual fate from TOS even more tragic. 

I always love more Tilly! But now she is seeing dead people? Interesting developments...

The faith vs science thing was actually pretty well done, certainly better than a lot of Star Trek shows in the past would have done. There was a lot going on and many points of view, and it raised a lot of good points, especially in this strange situation. And Clark's Law was even name checked!

The basic idea of the Prime Directive has been interpreted a million times to mean a million different things, but the main ideas was that Starfleet cant interfere in the internal matters of another society, and they cant interfere with the natural development of any a pre-warp society. Some people have taken that as "try to be sneaky if we`re helping this less advanced society not die" or "ignore dying people because that could hurt the natural order" or any other number of things. And its not really a law, so much as its a philosophical ideal or code of conduct, at least at times. I think things might have changed between the TOS era and the TNG era, as the TOS crew were a LOT less obsessive about the PD than Picard and company were. 

[dwmarch]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:04 AM, cali1981 said:

The addition of Anson Mount as Capt. Pike has been a major plus for the show.

Agreed. I liked Bruce Greenwood's Pike (particularly because of one trailer where his motivational speech to Kirk landed with way more impact than in the actual movie) but Anson Mount is so damn good. I am still shaking my head at how Marvel could cast him and then give him a silent role! Marvel has cast the same folks for different roles twice before (Chris Evans and Alfre Woodard being the prime examples) so hopefully they will give him another chance. In the meantime I'm enjoying his take on this classic role.

[starri]

12 hours ago, Miles said:

Also it would have had to be sent a few thousand years ago, since signals travel at a maximum at the speed of light and the warp drive is going at a multiple of the speed of light. Though I'm not sure if the writers actually thought about that fact. Since they never mentioned it, I kinda think they didn't, which hurts my brain, because it's really, really basic stuff. Are there really no science fiction writers in the writers room? Only drama-people? God.

They jumped to the site of the burst, and then heard the signal from the planet.  At least if I'm remembering right.

[Miles]

3 hours ago, starri said:

They jumped to the site of the burst, and then heard the signal from the planet.  At least if I'm remembering right.

Yes, but the "burst" is also just a bunch of radiation, if I understood that correctly. It can only travel at the speed of light. So the burst would have had to have happened a thousand years ago to reach them at exactly that point.

[Latverian Diplomat]

17 hours ago, Miles said:

But wouldn't a better excuse have been that it's questionable if the prime directive even applies? These are humans from earth. So their society developed the warp drive. Just because they were cut off from earth doesn't change that fact. I mean let's say shortly before Zefram Cochrane developed the warp drive, a few people got stranded on a pacific island and they were only found after the warp drive was invented and the vulcans had made first contact, would that mean they couldn't get rescued because they are a pre warp society? No, that doesn't make any sense.

These are people who were kidnapped and put on another planet and deserve rescuing, not some alien species that just hasn't developed the warp drive yet. And they weren't even kidnapped hundreds of years before the warp drive or something. The drive was developed shortly after WW3 in 2063 (WW3 was 2026 - 2053). So that's well within a human lifetime. Most of the kidnapped were alive when the warp drive was invented. (see pacific island analogy)

 

 

It's certainly debatable, but the Prime Directive isn't about individuals, it's about cultures. The "kidnap victims" went on to forge a unique culture, that would probably fall apart if say, Pike had given them a library instead of a battery.

Also, unless the Spore Drive or something similar becomes common place, (and we know it won't) these people are on their own anyway. No Federation ship will be back for quite some time. Why not let them be as they are for now? Once contact is made, it's a final decision, that bell can't be un-rung.

I know there is still at least one human society that is kept almost completely isolated for their benefit, the Sentinelese on the Andaman Islands. 

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

And its not really a law, so much as its a philosophical ideal or code of conduct, at least at times. I think things might have changed between the TOS era and the TNG era, as the TOS crew were a LOT less obsessive about the PD than Picard and company were. 

It depends on the episode. Certainly in "Bread and Circuses" TOS takes it very seriously and says Starfleet officers are sworn to die rather than break it.

The problem is, it most often comes up in the script when it can be used by the writers as a source of conflict, an obstacle, or even a trap. In the hands of a deft writer, it can do that and still make logical and moral sense. Clumsier writers tend to muck it up.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Latverian Diplomat
fix typo

[CTrent29]

Quote

The addition of Anson Mount as Capt. Pike has been a major plus for the show.

 

Look, ever since I saw "Hell on Wheels", I've been a fan of Anson Mount.  But if I must be brutally honest, his Christopher Pike strike me as BORING.  And this is a shame for an actor of Mount's caliber.  Pike is boring.  And I hope and pray that Season 2 will be the only season in which he is a regular.  He really has no business as captain of the Discovery in the first place.  It was unnecessary to make him the ship's captain.  Saru could have served as Discovery's captain or Mount could have played someone other than Pike.

 

Thank goodness for Sonequa Martin-Green and Doug Jones.

Edited January 29, 2019 by CTrent29

[MissLucas]

I like Pike well enough but I'm starting to suspect that getting the command over the Discovery is Star Trek's equivalent to getting the DADA teacher job at Hogwarts. So it's probably a good thing Saru keeps his current rank.

[statsgirl]

I feel like I'm missing something. Are the "angels" testing the Federation? Any species that can bring a group of Earth citizens so far out in space can surely save them from the nuclear winter too.

[Ottis]

On 1/24/2019 at 7:56 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

It seems oddly coincidental that the Discovery shows up at that planet just as an E.L.E. occurs.  They never did find out what caused or triggered the radioactive ring elements to rain down towards the planet -- it just kind of happened.

They clearly are leading us down the path that this "angel" has at least some of the qualities of the biblical angels. And given its power, I assume that the angel knew the ELE event was coming, hence the red spot there, hence the need for Discovery to be there to rescue the settlers. In fact, I assume each of the seven red spots has a similar purpose. Is it a test? Is the angel bound somehow and needs Discovery to act? Is it all a set up? We'll see.

On 1/28/2019 at 6:45 PM, CTrent29 said:

Look, ever since I saw "Hell on Wheels", I've been a fan of Anson Mount.  But if I must be brutally honest, his Christopher Pike strike me as BORING.  And this is a shame for an actor of Mount's caliber.  Pike is boring. 

I don't find Pike boring. I find him subtle. We are seeing bits and pieces of his leadership style each episode. And honestly, he is so far one of the best kind of leaders - he  leads by example, he listens to and encourages his people, he gives them the OK to take risks and, when needed, he gives them the cover of taking risks under his order (so he is the one responsible if something goes wrong). I actually like Pike a lot.  You can see why he may become a legend and a template for future starship captains.

And I love that Mount is Pike.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Ottis

[shrewd.buddha]

On 1/26/2019 at 3:57 PM, Latverian Diplomat said:

On the other hand, the resolution of the crisis really made no sense to me, technobabble and dark matter magic notwithstanding.

Late to the game - we are binging now  ..
.. but yes, this episode had a lot of head-scratching decisions and a lot of 'magic' science.
But the special effects are very impressive for a show on a streaming service. 

I did not understand why these people did not have electricity or realize that they had been transplanted. They came from a town and time on Earth where technology existed. They had electronics in the church basement. They would have some idea of astronomy. It is not as if they would have had to invent and develop these concepts from scratch. Why would Pike need to explain  a transporter to a guy who understands and works with technology from our time? Did every transplanted person lose their memory of 21st century technology? 

Why did Pike want to turn off the colony's space beacon message, especially if he wasn't going to help? Were they not just like we are now - sending messages out into space to see if anyone else is out there? Why wouldn't the small number of people who knew the truth be allowed to leave?
And more importantly, what part of this transplanted colony was part of the planet's natural order? These human transplants are going to displace and interfere with whatever species would have evolved on the planet. They are basically an invasive species that will eventually dominate and pollute an environment they were not supposed to have existed in. 

I also did not understand the over-emphasis on the church and the merging of all known religions. Was there a representative of every religion in the transplanted town? In contrast, it did not seem as if any other cultures or languages were merged. 

I felt bad for the guy who knew the truth, but was basically asked to maintain the current level of ignorance. His lot in life ts to be like Newton, Galileo and other intellectuals who were persecuted by religious leaders for pursuing scientific reasoning and contradicting their fiction. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by shrewd.buddha

[John Potts]

Oh FFS. I really hate the "I could tell you something, but I'll leave it till it's dramatically appropriate".  Stamets managed a much less likely admission (but obeyed his orders and did it anyway) in the next scene. At least Michael did come clean in the end.

I guess World War III still happened then? For an optimistic vision of the future, Trek seems determined to believe we'll nearly destroy ourselves first (I guess it was canonically established by ST: First Contact).

Shouldn't Pike have gone "Those candles are lit - there must be people around here"? Though nice to see that the religious weren't depicted as being fanatics (was half expecting them to execute the engineer as a heretic) or suddenly believing they were angels

Was Tilly's "revelation" meant to be a surprise, because it really wasn't. I guess "I was concussed" is as good an excuse as any for seeing visions, though I was reminded that she got "spored" by the magic mushrooms at the end of last season.

Kinda like Pike being prepared to break the Prime Directive for a higher purpose, which is much more in keeping with how Kirk approached it, generally speaking.

On 1/28/2019 at 2:35 AM, Miles said:

Also it would have had to be sent a few thousand years ago, since signals travel at a maximum at the speed of light and the warp drive is going at a multiple of the speed of light.

It may well be broadcast through subspace (aka. "As fast as is necessary for the plot") so it can exceed lightspeed. If ships can communicate FTL (which they clearly can), there's no reason the Angel can't, since it seems to have even more advanced tech available to it.

On 9/14/2019 at 2:03 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

Why would Pike need to explain  a transporter to a guy who understands and works with technology from our time? Did every transplanted person lose their memory of 21st century technology? 

They were transported from World War III, roughly around the time Warp Drive was invented. Transporters were new technology at the time the Enterprise (NX-01) was launched, a generation later.

On 9/14/2019 at 2:03 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

I felt bad for the guy who knew the truth, but was basically asked to maintain the current level of ignorance. His lot in life ts to be like Newton, Galileo and other intellectuals who were persecuted by religious leaders for pursuing scientific reasoning

Newton was not persecuted (even though he lived through one of Britain's most oppressive regimes, the Protectorate), founding the Royal Society and eventually heading the Royal Mint. Though Galileo certainly did face persecution.

[Idiotboy]

Like what Pike is bringing to the show, particularly intellectualism and spirituality. It led New Eden into interesting conflicts between doing the ethical thing and hewing to the Prime Directive. (Even if the script did feel like a dusted-off version of Stargate SG-1's "Red Sky.") And Tilly continues to bring levity without being "comic relief." For which I say thanks. That being said ...

Quote

The first two eps have been fun but I kind of miss the more somber, suspenseful tone of the first season. A lot of online comments mention that season 2 is back to "classic Trek," but given a choice, I'd rather see something new.

Yes, we're back to Peril Of The Week episodes, strung together with some Where's Waldo? crap about the absent Spock. Alex Kurtzman definitely lost his cojones after S1 and retreated to conventional Trek, epitomized by the introduction of a big Spock arc to palliate the more conservative fans. (S1 got along perfectly well without Spock and Burnham brings more than enough Vulcanism to the show.) One notes with dismay that Nicholas Meyer has been banished, the executive producer ranks have been thoroughly shaken up and Bryan Fuller demoted to "executive consultant." None of this bodes well.

P.S.: Seven beacons. Seven Red Angels (presumably bearing seven seals). Apocalypse anyone?

Edited July 29, 2020 by Idiotboy

[mythoughtis]

 Appearance of the Red Angel on the asteroid looked more like the alien Queen at the end of Falling Skies than an Angel.   Now in the film from the helmet, I could  see the wings. 
 

I really wanted Pike to offer Jacob a position on the ship, since he obviously understood the situation.   

Edited April 21, 2023 by mythoughtis