S03.E02: London Bridge is Falling Down

[freddi]

"Victoria must decide whether to fight the Chartists or allow them to present their petition."  

[nora1992]

I realize this is a drama, but every week this show becomes more history-as-today’s-population-thinks/wishes-it-should-be, divorcing itself from what it was.  

Victoria reassuring Bertie about destiny?  Only Bertie returning to the nursery to watch Leave It to Beaver would have made it more anachronistic.

So much improved/evolved during Victoria’s reign.  Why not focus on that instead of rewriting history?  She was many things, but a tender mother to pre-adolescents? 

Edited January 21, 2019 by nora1992
Hit post too soon

[Suzysite]

1 hour ago, nora1992 said:

 She was many things, but a tender mother to pre-adolescents? 

Exactly.  From things I've read about Victoria and Albert, they were dedicated to one another but pretty much ignored the children.   Perhaps they should have shown the nanny comforting little Bertie.  Probably was truer to life.

[Kohola3]

I'm getting a little confused at times with them playing fast and loose with history.  I hate to have to research things after every episode so I've decided just to take it all at face value and not worry about accuracy.

[magdalene]

Was Victoria really a Chartist supporter? I find that hard to believe.

I guess I better assume that neither Ernst or Harriet will be showing up at all this season. And with Lord Alfred now being basically a glorified extra I am not holding my breath that I will learn about his marital status either.

So far I am not emotionally connecting to this season at all.

[Dirtybubble]

7 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Was Victoria really a Chartist supporter? I find that hard to believe.

I guess I better assume that neither Ernst or Harriet will be showing up at all this season. And with Lord Alfred now being basically a glorified extra I am not holding my breath that I will learn about his marital status either.

So far I am not emotionally connecting to this season at all.

I've heard they will show up this season--I've seen photo stills of Ernst this season so it will happen eventually.  Not sure about Lord Alfred and his lovely fiance/wife but it's only the 2nd episode...

 

ITA with everyone about how they are portraying Victoria's relationship with her children.  I've read too that she was indifferent to her children and have even heard some of the younger ones say they were actually afraid of her.  Alfred seemed to be a bit more compassionate but so far I'm not really bothered by it.  It's not a Ken Burns documentary, it's a soap opera that just so happens to contain Q.V. so enh I can over look it.

[Mindthinkr]

Feodora spent time admiring herself in the mirror with Victoria’s diamond necklace on  I thought she was going to steal it. I still don’t trust her and her jealousy for the Queen. 

[dubbel zout]

From the first episode thread, which also applies here, and in response to @Mindthinkr's post:

Quote

I also think the actress who plays the sister is way over-the-top. Every scene she's in, she almost looks like she's ready to stab Victoria. There's no reason for them to turn her into a villain, but I'm not sure how else to read her expressions and body language.

I know! That scene where she was trying on the necklace? I half expected to see her strangling Victoria with it in the next scene. And/or stealing it and running away.

[3 is enough]

Pleasantly surprised that Skerrett actually showed up for her wedding.  I was sure she was going to bail.

I very much dislike the Fedora storyline.  Never mind that it is pure fantasy, exactly what purpose does it serve?

Add me to the list of those who hate the portrayal of Victoria as a doting mother.  And what is up with Bertie not wanting to be king or thinking Britain only had queens?  The fact that he was the heir was drilled into him from birth.  Also, by the age we see him he already had a team of tutors and a rigorous study program.  Admittedly, he was a poor scholar, which greatly disturbed Albert and soured their relationship.  Since Albert was displeased, Victoria was too.  Definitely not the loving mama we are seeing.

46 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

It's not a Ken Burns documentary, it's a soap opera that just so happens to contain Q.V. so enh I can over look it.

So true.  

[iMonrey]

Let's hope we're done with the Chartists now. Abigail has served her purpose, so let's be done with her as well. 

Feodora spoke of going home - but I thought it was too dangerous for her to do that. Didn't she have to flee her country because of the civil unrest? Or was she somewhere else when she sought out Victoria? I'm not sure I understand what's going on with her and what she's doing there.

Also, last season Albert was such a prude he disapproved of the nude painting Louis Philippe had in his collection. Now he's got a nude painting of his own hanging in the bathroom where he can stare at it while he's in the tub.

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

Or was she somewhere else when she sought out Victoria?

I forget where Feodora was, but she wasn't in her country. She thought she saw the writing on the wall and went to England. Or that's what she told Victoria and Albert. I suspect it's a bit of that but she's also tired of living in a German backwater and wants more excitement—as well as some material goods that her husband can't/won't give her.

That scene in the bathroom at Osborne House where she put her hand on Albert's shoulder made me think she's putting the moves on him, but she's badly mistaken if she thinks Albert will have a fling with her. Or even be able to influence him against Victoria. The only person Albert wants to influence Victoria is Albert.

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, Suzysite said:

Exactly.  From things I've read about Victoria and Albert, they were dedicated to one another but pretty much ignored the children.   Perhaps they should have shown the nanny comforting little Bertie.  Probably was truer to life.

Albert was quite involved in the children’s education, especially Bertie’s. 

Albert, if you want to talk dirty to your wife, close the door! 😆 Considering how shocked Albert was by those nude paintings in Paris, I'm surprised he put that huge erotic painting on the wall.

Edited January 21, 2019 by LittleIggy

[iMonrey]

Quote

That scene in the bathroom at Osborne House where she put her hand on Albert's shoulder made me think she's putting the moves on him, but she's badly mistaken if she thinks Albert will have a fling with her. 

Oh, I forgot to mention, I laughed when Feodora looked up at that painting and shuddered. 

[Zella]

22 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I know! That scene where she was trying on the necklace? I half expected to see her strangling Victoria with it in the next scene. And/or stealing it and running away.

For sure! I almost feel like she's out of a 90s Columbo episode, and w're just waiting for the inevitable murder scene! 

I'm kind of meh on this season so far. In addition to Feo being over-the-top, as I mentioned on another thread, I think the Chartist woman is also way over-the-top. I don't buy for a minute that she would behave that way in front of the queen or even get to meet the queen, for that matter.

Ever since Victoria has been married, I feel like the show has white-washed her into being much more of a maternal figure than she was. I know they're probably afraid the audience won't like her if they depicted her the way she was, but I think that's what makes her interesting IRL. So, yeah, that scene with Bertie irritated me, too. 

I find Lord Palmerston more interesting than I did last week. Seems like he'll be entertaining if nothing else. I did like that they finally mentioned his Lord M connection. 

And to my surprise, I'm mildly interested to see what happens with Skerrett now. I also assumed she would just flake out on the wedding, and we'd just get a repeat of previous storylines. I was also expecting Francatelli to be caught in her room, so this definitely took a direction I didn't expect. Wondering how long she will keep the marriage a secret or if it will be able to withstand the pressure. 

I laughed really hard at the French king's little history lesson for Victoria's children. Glad someone on the show finally acknowledged that the French didn't have a monopoly on whacking their monarchs. 

I'm reading a book someone on this board recommended about Victoria's matchmaking efforts for her grandchildren. Seems like IRL the French king's daughter pops up again much later as a complication for one of Victoria's grandsons, which I just happened to read about last night after watching this episode. 

Hoping for an Ernst appearance soon. I'd also like to see Leopold. He's such a weasel, but I think he makes for more compelling TV than Victoria on her own. 

[LittleIggy]

23 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Albert was quite involved in the children’s education, especially Bertie’s. 

Albert, if you want to talk dirty to your wife, close the door! 😆 Considering how shocked Albert was by those nude paintings in Paris, I'm surprised he put that huge erotic painting on the wall.

Sorry. Don’t know why this repeated!

Edited January 21, 2019 by LittleIggy

[Nolefan]

16 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Albert, if you want to talk dirty or your wife, close the door! 😆 Considering how shocked Albert was by those nude paintings in Paris, I'm surprised he put that huge erotic painting on the wall.

Actually, nude paintings and sculptures all over Osborne House is historically accurate, and Albert did buy that painting referenced in the episode for Victoria. I think the problem Albert had about the painting in Paris was that it was an erotic painting of one of Louis-Phillippe’s mistresses on display. Albert definitely does not have a problem with an adventurous sex with his wife. He just doesn’t believe in fornication or adultrey.

I am little afraid that Feodora is going to go all Single White Female on Victoria. Wearing her clothes (granted Victoria made her borrow them, but anyway) and sneaking her jewelry. By the way she had her hand on Albert’s arm, I am half expecting her to try to sneak into bed with him.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

By the way she had her hand on Albert’s arm, I am half expecting her to try to sneak into bed with him.

Yeah I think that's very likely. I'd be surprised if she doesn't make a very open but failed pass at him before the end of the season. 

[Driad]

Article about the Chartists, on this show and in history.

[Notwisconsin]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the 1819 Peterloo massacre. I kept thinking "oh God, this is Peterloo!" it wasn't.

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the 1819 Peterloo massacre. I kept thinking "oh God, this is Peterloo!" it wasn't.

Hehe I thought of that too! I kept wondering if there was some post-Peterloo massacre I'd not read about. In fact, I was a little surprised nobody in the episode itself mentioned Peterloo when they were worrying about the potential for things to get out of hand. 

[izabella]

Did Victoria really care so much about being loved by her people?  I didn't realize that was a driving concern of Victoria's, but I don't know much about her.

[CousinAmy]

I didn't realize that Osborne House wasn't just a house, it was another palace - and huge! They tore down the unoriginal house to put up this new one. (Same with Balmoral.) Of course I spent last night reading about the various castles. 

Victoria looks as ethereally beautiful after 5 (6?) pregnancies as she did when she was 19. Did she really still have the glow of youth by 1848? I would rather see the character age as the years go by, but maybe the creators think that the audience would prefer seeing young Ms. Coleman play her up till her death. Albert, also, looks the same - although he hasn't had any pregnancies, he literally hasn't changed a hair - a little maturity, maybe a few extra pounds - would add authenticity.

[Dirtybubble]

26 minutes ago, izabella said:

Did Victoria really care so much about being loved by her people?  I didn't realize that was a driving concern of Victoria's, but I don't know much about her.

From what I've read she liked being queen and she certainly wanted to keep her head attached to her body so in turn she was concerned about the feelings the general public had for her.  At least in the beginning anyway, towards the end of her reign she had been on the throne so long I think she became complacent.  Or so I've read anyway....

Quote

I'd also like to see Leopold. He's such a weasel, but I think he makes for more compelling TV than Victoria on her own. 

OMG YES!  I had actually forgotten about this character.  Yeah the whole I'm-your-daddy story line from last season was really soap opera 101 but enh I still really like him and the actor that portrays him so more King of the Belgian Waffles please!

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, CousinAmy said:

Victoria looks as ethereally beautiful after 5 (6?) pregnancies as she did when she was 19. Did she really still have the glow of youth by 1848? I would rather see the character age as the years go by, but maybe the creators think that the audience would prefer seeing young Ms. Coleman play her up till her death. Albert, also, looks the same - although he hasn't had any pregnancies, he literally hasn't changed a hair - a little maturity, maybe a few extra pounds - would add authenticity.

Call me shallow, but I like Hollywood Victoria and Albert. I feel like both actors, though, have done an incredible job subtly aging through their acting skills since S1 — from being sheltered teenagers to young parents.

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Did Victoria really care so much about being loved by her people?  I didn't realize that was a driving concern of Victoria's, but I don't know much about her.

After her breakdown over her lost love from her people during this episode, I fear that Victoria is heading for some narcissistic bender to rival Lord Palmerston in a quest to be popular. Was it just me or did Victoria seem to be kinda pushing Albert away? I mean, Albert told Victoria she was his anchor note, but Victoria did not respond in kind. Then, Albert grabbed her hand on the train to Osborne and, while Victoria didn’t push him away, she didn’t seem to hold his hand back. This made me wonder what Victoria’s want of popularity will mean to her relationship with Albert, as Albert is not loved by the British public. How will Victoria, wanting to be a “cool kid,” deal with being tied in marriage to Albert, the “nerd”?

[ajsnaves]

Victoria was upset about being pushed into leave the palace to go to Osborne House.  She thought it made her look cowardly, and she resented Albert for pushing her to leave.  This came to head when she found out that the Chartists presented their petitions peacefully.  I think any coldness towards Albert leading up to the note from the PM was a manifestation of that uncertenty.  Then again so much has changed from the real history, maybe she will have him killed in the next episode for insubordination and sleeping with her sister.  I guess we will see.

[Calvada]

5 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Pleasantly surprised that Skerrett actually showed up for her wedding.  I was sure she was going to bail.

I very much dislike the Fedora storyline.  Never mind that it is pure fantasy, exactly what purpose does it serve?

Add me to the list of those who hate the portrayal of Victoria as a doting mother.  And what is up with Bertie not wanting to be king or thinking Britain only had queens?  The fact that he was the heir was drilled into him from birth.  Also, by the age we see him he already had a team of tutors and a rigorous study program.  Admittedly, he was a poor scholar, which greatly disturbed Albert and soured their relationship.  Since Albert was displeased, Victoria was too.  Definitely not the loving mama we are seeing.

So true.  

I thought Bertie's confusion about who would be the next monarch was the one thing that was historically accurate, that he did think his older sister would inherit.  I thought it was not until he was 9 or 10 that he realized it was he who would become King.  At the time Louise was born, he was only six.  

[tennisgurl]

Was Feordora trying to be a little flirty with Alfred for a second there, when she put her hand on his arm? Yeah, slow your rolls there, miss proto goth! No way would Alfred even THINK about cheating on Victoria, or anyone for that matter. He is madly in love with her, and is Mr. Honor and Propriety. Her looking at herself with Victoria's pearls, then being hilariously pissy when she found out they were naming the new princess after Alfred's mother and not her, makes me think that her leaving again will not be under good circumstances. 

From what I have heard about real life, Alfred was more of the nurturing parent who spent time with the kids, as much as he had time to be. Victoria, while not uncaring or cruel exactly, just didnt spend that much time with the children, and was not a very maternal person in general. I can get why the show wanted to have her be more of a doting mother, as thats something that a modern audience would prefer from the main character of a TV show, but I think it would be more interesting seeing how parenting is VERY different as a royal than as a "normal" person, even for a person who is interested in parenting. For someone not that interested in kids in general, its a wholly different experience, and i think that be an interesting aspect of her character to explore. 

I hope thats the end of Abigail. The actress is fine, but she doesent really fit into this show very much, and her "I say what I think even to the queen" bit is already old. She served her purpose, unless her later purpose is to connect Victoria with the common folk, which she already has Skerrett for. Speaking of, I did laugh when Skerrett told Victoria that the people of London would cheery for ANYONE who got them free beer. I think thats true for MANY times and places! I am not that into Skerretts romance stuff, but I do like her interactions with Victoria, and how much pride she has in her work. I do admit, I thought that the Irish guy would be the one to get violent or something and that why they spent so much time on him, not that he was an undercover cop helping with a False Flag operation. 

That palace is amazing! If I had to run from political upheaval, thats the kind of place I would want to go! I admit to getting a dark giggle out of the French king scaring the kids with tales of "Madam Guillotine". He might have been more trouble than he was worth, but he was fun to have around for a bit. 

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, ajsnaves said:

Victoria was upset about being pushed into leave the palace to go to Osborne House.  She thought it made her look cowardly, and she resented Albert for pushing her to leave.  This came to head when she found out that the Chartists presented their petitions peacefully.  I think any coldness towards Albert leading up to the note from the PM was a manifestation of that uncertenty.  Then again so much has changed from the real history, maybe she will have him killed in the next episode for insubordination and sleeping with her sister.  I guess we will see.

I guess that could explain it, but I thought I noticed a real change in Victoria at the point where she met with Lord Palmerston alone in the garden, where they spoke of safety vs popularity. Then I sensed some foreshadowing when Victoria was talking to the former King of the French about whether running away would make her look cowardly and he told Victoria that life was more important than a crown and that she has a family. I feel that the reason she was furious in the end was because the popular people, i.e., Lord Palmerston, were in London during the historical deliverance of the Charter and she was not there for the people to see her as a Queen for the People.

[Razzberry]

Yeah, that tender scene of Victoria and Bertie was moving pretty funny.   If Bertie was confused about his place, perhaps it was because Vicky was favored by Albert and presumably by Victoria, who seemed to judge her children based on how attractive they were.   That Bertie resembled her in looks and temperament didn't do him any favors.

[3 is enough]

3 hours ago, Calvada said:

I thought Bertie's confusion about who would be the next monarch was the one thing that was historically accurate, that he did think his older sister would inherit.  I thought it was not until he was 9 or 10 that he realized it was he who would become King.  At the time Louise was born, he was only six.  

Well I stand corrected.  I read a biography of Edward VII not long ago, and I do not recall this detail.  Maybe it was not in that particular book. 

[LiveenLetLive]

To be honest it seems as if the flights of fantasy are being ratcheted up this season---some of the story-line, is preposterous (the sister.)  Victoria and Albert were 29 when Louise was born so they probably could have still looked youngish,  neither aged well however, LOL. Albert had a warm and very close relationship with his daughter Vickie, so far none of that is being shown. Vickie was also much more intelligent than Bertie so I can see why they wrote in the Bertie confusion about his future Kingship.

Albert is really being sidelined this year story wise, although if they get to the Great Exhibition he should figure more prominently. I had to laugh at the nudie painting--apparently their living spaces were full of nude sculpture and paintings, in that scene it looked as if Albert was trying to excite Victoria, which IRL never seemed to be an issue, by all reports the Queen was very enthusiastic about the sexual side of her marriage. 

[LittleIggy]

10 hours ago, Nolefan said:

Actually, nude paintings and sculptures all over Osborne House is historically accurate, and Albert did buy that painting referenced in the episode for Victoria. I think the problem Albert had about the painting in Paris was that it was an erotic painting of one of Louis-Phillippe’s mistresses on display. Albert definitely does not have a problem with an adventurous sex with his wife. He just doesn’t believe in fornication or adultrey.

 

How adventurous? Beyond missionary position? Did he have a copy of the Kama Sutra? 😏

[Nolefan]

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

How adventurous? Beyond missionary position? Did he have a copy of the Kama Sutra? 😏

Well, he did get literal instructions from an “expert” before his marriage. And there seems to be some recurring theme of Victoria and Albert role playing. Even in that scene, Victoria started with the “But Albert, Osborne is your realm...” before Feodora interrupted them. Albert also had a larger custom bed made for Osborne House. And Osborne House had the famous door lock. Too bad they didn’t use it at the time.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Nolefan

[CousinAmy]

After 6 pregnancies I wonder how robust their love-making was. I know I would have locked the door on Albert, no matter how cute he was, if I had spent my 20s being sidelined from my job for a decade. I think she had a clue about how babies are made, and I know I would have put a stop to it. Enough is enough.

[Notwisconsin]

46 minutes ago, CousinAmy said:

I think she had a clue about how babies are made, and I know I would have put a stop to it. Enough is enough.

You should read a biography of Eleanor Roosevelt. Kicking hubby out of bed is the best way to promote adultery.

[sugarbaker design]

4 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

After 6 pregnancies I wonder how robust their love-making was. I know I would have locked the door on Albert, no matter how cute he was, if I had spent my 20s being sidelined from my job for a decade.

But she wasn't sidelined from her job, she had the baby, handed it over to nursemaids, nannies and governesses, and went to work.  From what I've read she only saw the kids for an hour each day, all of them at once, seriously supervised by a gaggle of nursemaids, nannies and governesses.

[Kohola3]

4 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

But she wasn't sidelined from her job, she had the baby, handed it over to nursemaids, nannies and governesses, and went to work.  From what I've read she only saw the kids for an hour each day, all of them at once, seriously supervised by a gaggle of nursemaids, nannies and governesses.

I think that was pretty much the MO of all upper class Brits even into the last century; from what I understand that's the way Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip handled their kids.  

[sugarbaker design]

6 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I think that was pretty much the MO of all upper class Brits even into the last century; from what I understand that's the way Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip handled their kids.  

and the Crawleys from Downton Abbey.  :)

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ever since Victoria has been married, I feel like the show has white-washed her into being much more of a maternal figure than she was. I know they're probably afraid the audience won't like her if they depicted her the way she was, but I think that's what makes her interesting IRL. So, yeah, that scene with Bertie irritated me, too. 

I do think there's a tendency to romanticize Victoria and Albert which extends to their relationship with their children. But as sugarbaker design notes above, Lady Mary was not less popular with audiences of Downton Abbey because she observed a traditional parenting role for the upper class - a "viewing" once per day. For whatever reason this show wants to make Victoria and Albert look like more modern parents, but then again this show has never been quite as good as Downton Abbey.

[LiveenLetLive]

re Victoria's constant pregnancies: "When Victoria’s doctor warned the 38-year-old queen against having a 10th child she cared about one thing, asking: “Am I not to have any more fun in bed?” here is an article about V&A as parents (although I do think that they are being hard on Albert in this respect, he apparently was the more involved parent.) https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/queen-victoria-adored-prince-albert-8971898

[Nolefan]

3 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

re Victoria's constant pregnancies: "When Victoria’s doctor warned the 38-year-old queen against having a 10th child she cared about one thing, asking: “Am I not to have any more fun in bed?” here is an article about V&A as parents (although I do think that they are being hard on Albert in this respect, he apparently was the more involved parent.) https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/queen-victoria-adored-prince-albert-8971898

Seems like a lot of conflicting stories about Victoria and Albert as parents. What I find interesting was how Osborne House (featured in this episode) gives a glimpse into them as parents. Albert designed the house so that the children’s bedrooms were in the same part of the house as V&A’s, so the kids were welcome to spend time with V&A in the mornings and evenings, but this arrangement also necessitated the famous door lock. Also, each child had his/her own garden, and the kids used the produce to cook meals for their parents in the children’s Swiss playhouse. And the children wore less expensive play clothes while there. Outside of Osborne, I found it interesting that the children all stayed home growing up and weren’t shipped away to boarding schools (like Prince Charles). 

[dubbel zout]

25 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

I found it interesting that the children all stayed home growing up and weren’t shipped away to boarding schools (like Prince Charles).

I think that was because Victoria and/or Albert wanted to control the kids as much as possible.

[Twopper]

1 hour ago, Nolefan said:

I found it interesting that the children all stayed home growing up and weren’t shipped away to boarding schools (like Prince Charles). 

 Prince Charles was the first heir to the throne to go to boarding school.  Prince Henry of Glouster (sp?) was the first child of a British monarch to go to boarding school.  He was the son of George V, and the story is he was touring some boarding school and asked if he could attend so they sent him there when he was 10 and then he went on the Eton and Trinity College.   I think Henry was third in line to the throne.  Other royal children had tutors.

[Scarlett45]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:02 AM, CousinAmy said:

After 6 pregnancies I wonder how robust their love-making was. I know I would have locked the door on Albert, no matter how cute he was, if I had spent my 20s being sidelined from my job for a decade. I think she had a clue about how babies are made, and I know I would have put a stop to it. Enough is enough.

According to the historical records, Victoria was madly in love with Albert and enjoyed having sex with him- the pregnancies not so much. There were rudimentary contraceptive methods at the time, but socially those weren’t appropriate for the Queen; they were considered tricks of sex workers and lower class women who had to prevent pregnancy for their survival. Also, even has Queen, Victoria had no right to refuse to have sex with Albert. Legally her body was his to do with what he wanted. Now we know that Albert did love Victoria and considered her desires more than a typical husband of his time, but he wanted a large family, and since they were able to they had a large family. 

 

I think sometimes people focus on the fact that Albert and Victoria were in love (which they were), but the presence of romantic love between a couple doesn’t eliminate ALL of the cultural and social attitudes that influence how they see marriage and their role in the marriage. 

On 1/22/2019 at 12:43 PM, sugarbaker design said:

But she wasn't sidelined from her job, she had the baby, handed it over to nursemaids, nannies and governesses, and went to work.  From what I've read she only saw the kids for an hour each day, all of them at once, seriously supervised by a gaggle of nursemaids, nannies and governesses.

Yes. As far as Victoria comforting Bertie, I do agree the show runners want to make her appealing to a 21st century audience; being a distant mother (even in British aristocracy during this time) doesn’t mean you never ever had a kind word or a laugh, or a fun time with your children when they were young. It means that the care of the children wasn’t your primary responsibility (or even in the top five).

QEII had so many responsiblities when Prince Charles and Princess Anne we’re young they were primarily raised by nannies, governesses and the Queen Mother- yet there were times where they all had jovial and warm times as a family (we have the photographs). That doesn’t negate that they were raised by others. It’s not an either or type thing. 

I think if Victoria was a woman in the 21st century married to an Albert type man, she would likely have 1 child, and a part time nanny (at least) letting Albert be the primary caregiver. 

[Nolefan]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:56 PM, Zella said:

Hoping for an Ernst appearance soon. I'd also like to see Leopold. He's such a weasel, but I think he makes for more compelling TV than Victoria on her own. 

So hoping for more Ernst, too. And Leopold is a weasel, but he is a lovable weasel who supports Victoria and Albert’s marriage, unlike Feodora. 

[Quilt Fairy]

My PBS station (WTTW Chicago) is running (maybe re-running?) a 2 episode documentary this week specifically about Queen Victoria and her children.  Check your local PBS station, it's just called "Queen Victoria".  We're supposed to keep actual history out of the show threads so I won't go into details except to say that she was a horrible mother, particularly after Albert died.

[Nolefan]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:56 PM, Zella said:

And to my surprise, I'm mildly interested to see what happens with Skerrett now. I also assumed she would just flake out on the wedding, and we'd just get a repeat of previous storylines. I was also expecting Francatelli to be caught in her room, so this definitely took a direction I didn't expect. 

I am still not feeling this storyline. I’m expecting this whole storyline to be tedious then turn into a nothing burger in the end like the Skerrett secret identity stupidness from S1 and S2. I’m expecting that Victoria will be totally ok with the marriage and break protocols to allow both of them to continue their jobs at the palace, after Albert is shown acting like an insensitive jerk about not wanting rules broken to accommodate them. I am betting the couple even get their own cottage and any children they have are raised with V&A’s children. Never mind showing the real sacrifices the servants had to make to keep their jobs and then being left all alone with no family of their own when they are no longer needed or their job ends.

[andromeda331]

Feodora was really annoying in this episode. Even more so then the first. I really wish they hadn't gone the route that she clearly hates and/or is jealous of her. Once again where is their mother? Doesn't she want to spend more time with Feodora? She hasn't seen her in what decades? So was Albert. He was driving me crazy. I didn't like him acting like Victoria wasn't acting like herself and blaming it on the post-pregnancy. Maybe I missed it but Victoria seemed like she was trying to get her opinions across when no one was agreeing with her or even really listening to her and dismissing her which was really, really annoying. I liked the scene with her stopping the carriage and going to talk with Wellington and the two other men. I liked the scene with Victoria and Bertie even though it most likely never happened. The kid who plays Bertie is cute but is annoying at times. So is Vicky. But it seems kind of accurate with those two. He's probably right Vicky probably would have made a good Queen. I always wondered what happened if she and her husband had been able to rule Germany instead of the really short time they got. No matter how many scenes they show of Skerrett and I guess now her husband I just don't care. Its boring. Plus like @Nolefan already written its going to end up being nothing and Victoria letting them stay and ignoring the rule. I wouldn't mind that we're not seeing the other ladies if they'd just write a line that they went home or rotating the ladies or something. Also, the Duke Monmouth sucks. 

[Zella]

Ugh if we get them just hand-waving the marriage away as no big deal, I'll be so pissed. But you're both right that that is likely what will happen.