The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Iron Man 2 is pretty bad. Although if you change Whiplash for a different villain, don't cast Mickey Rourke and get rid of the party scene where Tony pisses himself in the suit you would have an ok movie. The changes to Age of Ultron aren't that easy.

I thought Rourke was fine when he wasn't speaking. He really needed to ease up on the accent.

[swanpride]

I think the problem was more that they smashed two possible arcs together and I think they would have been better off if they discarded Whiplash and focussed on the fact that Tony was dying. But that was early in the MCU when they still thought that they needed an action scene every five minutes and a definitive villain. I suspect if the movie were created nowadays, they would have been brave enough to have Hammer only as antagonist and Tony as his own main villain.

[Ohiopirate02]

13 hours ago, Darlin said:

I consider myself a huge MCU fan and I can't get into the Guardians of the Galaxy movies.  Not sure what my issue is

It's Chris Pratt.  He doesn't have the charisma and acting ability to make Peter Quill work.  The rest of the ensemble is great, but he just sucks the life out of his scenes.  

[FnkyChkn34]

Has everyone seen this quiz?  https://sorta.app/q/1022

It comes out fairly accurately... not perfect, but interesting.

Every time I take it, I get a different list, but here's mine from right now: 

 

#1-4 are almost always the same four movies but are basically in no particular order.  #5-17 are a toss-up depending on my mood for the day. #18-23 are also always the same six movies and usually in that order.  Nothing against the Spiderman movies, they just aren't as good as the others, IMO (because I'm "too old" for them).

Edited February 23, 2021 by FnkyChkn34

[stealinghome]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's Chris Pratt.  He doesn't have the charisma and acting ability to make Peter Quill work.  The rest of the ensemble is great, but he just sucks the life out of his scenes.  

I actually would say that all the characters and plots are just so formulaic and no interesting twist is ever put on them, though I agree that Pratt isn't a great leading man. Gamora is the universe's biggest badass...except she has all the personality of a piece of paper and gets damseled constantly to push the romance with man-boy Star Lord, who is himself an absolute cliche frat bro with daddy issues. Drax is funny, but his "I want revenge for my dead family" backstory is a dime a dozen. Ditto Rocket's "I am a freak, therefore have angst because no one can ever love me" issues. When the most NON-cliche character is the barely verbal tree, your characters have issues.

Also, the plots. GotG 1 was "ragtag band teams up to save the universe." Frankly, Avengers 1 did it way better. GotG 2 was "Quill's daddy issues"...because "white guy has daddy issues" is sooooo uncommon a plot. 🙄 Pretty much the only thing the GotG movies have going for them, imo, is a) their soundtracks (which are great) and b) that they are self-aware and willing to lean into their inherent silliness, making them just as much comedies as superhero movies. Which can be frustrating at times, but at least is a point in their favor in the long run imo. Otherwise...there's really not a lot there.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, stealinghome said:

I actually would say that all the characters and plots are just so formulaic and no interesting twist is ever put on them, though I agree that Pratt isn't a great leading man. Gamora is the universe's biggest badass...except she has all the personality of a piece of paper and gets damseled constantly to push the romance with man-boy Star Lord, who is himself an absolute cliche frat bro with daddy issues. Drax is funny, but his "I want revenge for my dead family" backstory is a dime a dozen. Ditto Rocket's "I am a freak, therefore have angst because no one can ever love me" issues. When the most NON-cliche character is the barely verbal tree, your characters have issues.

Also, the plots. GotG 1 was "ragtag band teams up to save the universe." Frankly, Avengers 1 did it way better. GotG 2 was "Quill's daddy issues"...because "white guy has daddy issues" is sooooo uncommon a plot. 🙄 Pretty much the only thing the GotG movies have going for them, imo, is a) their soundtracks (which are great) and b) that they are self-aware and willing to lean into their inherent silliness, making them just as much comedies as superhero movies. Which can be frustrating at times, but at least is a point in their favor in the long run imo. Otherwise...there's really not a lot there.

Definitely agree about the soundtracks, and... Baby Groot.  GOTG2 was saved by a dancing, murderous, infantilized sequioa.  But gosh darn if he isn't adorable!

[Kel Varnsen]

15 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Definitely agree about the soundtracks, and... Baby Groot.  GOTG2 was saved by a dancing, murderous, infantilized sequioa.  But gosh darn if he isn't adorable!

Guardians 2 also had the great Gamora and Nebula plot, which fed nicely into Nebula's role in Endgame. It also had some amazing visuals. 

As for Pratt and Quill I don't mind the character, especially since he is almost always played as the joke of the group and the rest of the Guardians are constantly calling him out on his behaviour.

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Has everyone seen this quiz?  https://sorta.app/q/1022

It comes out fairly accurately... not perfect, but interesting.

Yes, this was fun.  I took it three times and it varied a bit, but here’s my last results:

Edited February 23, 2021 by Starfish35

[Danny Franks]

17 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It might be because it is fresh in my mind but I think worst for me is Age of Ultron. And I accept that part of that is because expectations were so high (Avengers is a great movie and Ultron is a great villain). But it is also because I think it would be hard to make it a good movie without some major changes. Like Iron Man 2 is also not good but I think with some tweaks it could have been a decent movie.

The thing I think is funny though is comparing AoU to Civil War, is that Civil War is good movie other than the bad premise. AoU had a good premise but other than that it is mostly a bad movie. Of those two I think I would prefer the bad premise good movie option.

 

I was so disappointed when I saw Age of Ultron in the cinema, for a number of reasons - I thought the effects were poorly done, I hated the Natasha/Bruce stuff (as I've said many times), I didn't think Quicksilver or Wanda were introduced well, the entire third act is a mess of CGI and murky visuals.

Then I didn't watch it for a long time, and when I did I thought I might feel differently. If anything, I liked it even less. More stuff bugged me, including that whole party scene that felt like it was lifted out of a bad fanfiction.

Just about the only thing I like is the introduction of Vision and the wonderful shorthand of him effortlessly lifting Mjolnir to (unwittingly) prove he can be trusted. I also really like Wanda now, but still think she was introduced in a dumb way.

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Guardians 2 also had the great Gamora and Nebula plot, which fed nicely into Nebula's role in Endgame. It also had some amazing visuals. 

As for Pratt and Quill I don't mind the character, especially since he is almost always played as the joke of the group and the rest of the Guardians are constantly calling him out on his behaviour.

Quill is fine as the cocksure guy who manages to both be the butt of the joke and the hero. I'm not a fan of Pratt as a person, but I've been able to ignore that when he's playing Quill. But I'd be more than happy with him taking a backseat, plot-wise, in Guardians 3.

Let's have a movie where Nebula and Rocket get to be front and centre - Nebula leading the search for Gamora and Rocket dealing with his origins.

Other than Age of Ultron, I can never decide whether I dislike Iron Man 3 or Thor: The Dark World more. I don't think either movie works on any level, and again they both showcase the very worst of the MCU formula - an overblown, CGI-laden fight scene at the end. Only because they're sequels, they have to be bigger and 'better' than in the previous movies but with even less emotional resonance.

[Bruinsfan]

Remaking Justin Hammer from a sinister mastermind to a Will Ferrell character was another thing that really rankled about IM2. Marvel just struck out on the antagonists in that movie for me. And on the protagonist.

 

51 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Then I didn't watch it for a long time, and when I did I thought I might feel differently. If anything, I liked it even less. More stuff bugged me, including that whole party scene that felt like it was lifted out of a bad fanfiction.

If it were lifted from bad fanfiction, the authorial self-insertDarcy Lewis would have been present and the focus of the party! I do see what you mean, though for me seeing the Avengers hanging out as friends and enjoying themselves for a bit was one of the best parts of the movie.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Bruinsfan

[Kel Varnsen]

50 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Other than Age of Ultron, I can never decide whether I dislike Iron Man 3 or Thor: The Dark World more. I don't think either movie works on any level, and again they both showcase the very worst of the MCU formula - an overblown, CGI-laden fight scene at the end. Only because they're sequels, they have to be bigger and 'better' than in the previous movies but with even less emotional resonance.

Wow I like Iron Man 3 way more than Iron Man 2. The end scene with Bruce is really funny. People complain about how Tony blows up all his suits in it but then has suits again in Age of Ultron. But that works for me because as Homer Simpson once smartly said: "some people never change. Or, they quickly change and then quickly change back".

As for Iron Man 2 the whole thing with the arc reactor poisoning him makes no sense, since in the cave instead of using an arc reactor he just used a car battery he carried around.

[Starfish35]

5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

People complain about how Tony blows up all his suits in it but then has suits again in Age of Ultron.

Well, CA:WS happened between IM3 and AoU.   I always figured Tony watched the helicarriers crash and went straight to his lab and started building more suits.  

[Danny Franks]

38 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

If it were lifted from bad fanfiction, the authorial self-insertDarcy Lewis would have been present and the focus of the party! I do see what you mean, though for me seeing the Avengers hanging out as friends and enjoying themselves for a bit was one of the best parts of the movie.

I mean, it's definitely a mileage thing. And it's not like I don't enjoy scenes of characters sitting around chatting and relaxing, or that those scenes don't have a place in comic book movies - hell, some of the best bits of X-Men comics have always been the domestic scenes in the X-Mansion. There's just something about it in Age of Ultron that feels forced to me.

9 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wow I like Iron Man 3 way more than Iron Man 2. The end scene with Bruce is really funny. People complain about how Tony blows up all his suits in it but then has suits again in Age of Ultron. But that works for me because as Homer Simpson once smartly said: "some people never change. Or, they quickly change and then quickly change back".

As for Iron Man 2 the whole thing with the arc reactor poisoning him makes no sense, since in the cave instead of using an arc reactor he just used a car battery he carried around.

I'm not a big fan of Iron Man 2 either, but at least it has Black Widow and the back-and-forth between Tony and Pepper is still fun. Iron Man 3 just has nothing in it that I like. The bad guy is forgettable, the climax is a mess, the Extremis plot just doesn't resonate with me. The whole thing feels inconsequential and that was even before it was all rendered inconsequential by the next movie.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Danny Franks

[FnkyChkn34]

31 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

If it were lifted from bad fanfiction, the authorial self-insertDarcy Lewis would have been present and the focus of the party! I do see what you mean, though for me seeing the Avengers hanging out as friends and enjoying themselves for a bit was one of the best parts of the movie.

I didn't mind the party scene at all.  I sometimes need a break from all the action and fighting sequences.  The lip service to the whereabouts of Jane and Pepper was stupid, but I liked when they were sitting around trying to lift Mjolnir.  That's actually an important foreshadowing scene, since Steve can make it budge but no one else can. 

I also didn't mind the introduction of Vision, Wanda, and Pietro.  Other movies have introduced just as many characters or more, I think.  I agree that Natasha and Banner don't work, but that didn't ruin the movie for me.

I realized when I did that ranking quiz that I was almost always picking the ensemble cast movie over an origin or solo movie.  I guess I like seeing them all together, and that's another reason why I sort of like Age of Ultron.

[Kel Varnsen]

16 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

didn't mind the party scene at all.  I sometimes need a break from all the action and fighting sequences.  The lip service to the whereabouts of Jane and Pepper was stupid, but I liked when they were sitting around trying to lift Mjolnir.  That's actually an important foreshadowing scene, since Steve can make it budge but no one else can. 

I don't mind the party either. But when I watched it last week my 10 year old even noticed that Falcon is at the party but then completely disappears until the very end at. Like after Ultron attacked what was he doing while Ultron tried to destroy the world?

[swanpride]

Age of Ultron is one of those half/half movies for me. I don't like the whole arc for Natasha and Bruce, I think that Thor is underused and I think that the whole Hulkbuster thing is pretty boring fanservice I could have done without. But I like pretty much everything else. Hence it is higher in my ranking then movies where I only like one or two things (The Dark world) but under those which are in my eyes close to perfect. And naturally along with movies for which I have the same half/half effect (Thor I, where I like Loki's story but not Thor's, Ragnarök where I feel that the Planet Hulk story and the Ragnarök story clash so much with each other that both are underserved, Ant-man where I like the whole Father/Daughter theme but which is kind of uneven because the Mentor/Mentee angle keeps getting in the way, Doctor Strange where I like the visuals, the acting, themes and the climax, but where I really feel that the script needed one last once over to really work the way it was intended, and Endgame, where I feel that Cap and Natasha needed more room if that was to be the end of their story, but they were side-lined in favour of Tony).  

 

Quote

Like after Ultron attacked what was he doing while Ultron tried to destroy the world?

Looking for Bucky apparently. But yeah, it's kind of a weak explanation, especially since he is randomly part of the line-up of the new Avengers in the end.

[FnkyChkn34]

6 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't mind the party either. But when I watched it last week my 10 year old even noticed that Falcon is at the party but then completely disappears until the very end at. Like after Ultron attacked what was he doing while Ultron tried to destroy the world?

Maybe he had a really good party and ran away with a lady, to do things that you can't explain to a 10-year-old yet. 😉  

I kid.  I have no idea. 

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't mind the party either. But when I watched it last week my 10 year old even noticed that Falcon is at the party but then completely disappears until the very end at. Like after Ultron attacked what was he doing while Ultron tried to destroy the world?

Steve and Sam discuss a lead on Bucky, and apparently Sam left the party sometime before Ultron made his entrance.   I assume Sam went off the grid on his mission.

[festivus]

We just watched AoU last week. I do like in retrospect how many stories it sets up but I remember leaving the theater thinking it stinks compared to the first one. It also gave me one of the worst migraines I've ever had.

Things I liked: The party scene. Vision's entrance. Ultron's voice being James Spader. Nick Fury just popping up in Clint's barn. So fucking funny.

Things I did not like: Cheesy dialogue and action sequences. Thing I hate: Hulk's rampage. There's a reason why Hulk's always freaked me out since I was a kid. 

Natasha and Bruce: Eh, whatever. I think most MCU romances stink. It was just boring and ultimately went nowhere.

 

Oh and it had my favorite line in probably all the movies. Vision: "A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts."

[JessePinkman]

I haven't seen IM3 since it came out...which is why I kept choosing it as something I'd watch right now since it's been so long since I've seen it. The rest pretty much tracks (I can't stand the GOTG movies).

[GHScorpiosRule]

I suppose it’s a good thing that they couldn’t get Jackman (sorry, but I can’t imagine anyone else playing that role) for a cameo in Captain America: The First Avenger?

I’m only mentioning this because I’ve watched two ‘toons about the Captain America (Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes, X-Men: Evolution) in both, Logan was part of Cap’s team in WWII. He was going by the name of Howlett. Too late now.

I know this isn’t the technically correct thread, but I’ll forever be bitter at how the former toon ended.

[Guest]

Spider-Man 3 already has an interesting marketing strategy. 

Spider-Man 3 gets three titles: Home-Wrecker, Phone Home and Home Slice

[Trini]

47 minutes ago, Dani said:

Spider-Man 3 already has an interesting marketing strategy. 

Spider-Man 3 gets three titles: Home-Wrecker, Phone Home and Home Slice

More like trolling; but people are talking, so it's working. None of those are the title.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Trini

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

More like trolling; but people are talking, so it's working. None of those are the title.

I find trolling to be an interesting marketing strategy. It is amusing how seriously comic sites react to something that is obviously a joke. 

[Perfect Xero]

I'm assuming that it's some sort of multiverse reference, the same movie with a bunch of different titles.

[Captain Carrot]

10 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Remaking Justin Hammer from a sinister mastermind to a Will Ferrell character was another thing that really rankled about IM2.

Hammer was an old man in the comics, so I like to think that that we meet Justin Hammer Jr in the movie and his much more capable father will make an appearance at some point.

[swanpride]

I frankly don't care if those characters are necessarily like in the comics. Most of them aren't and most of them have been improved because of it. Ie I take MCU Vulture over Comic Vulture any day.

[Danny Franks]

8 hours ago, Dani said:

I find trolling to be an interesting marketing strategy. It is amusing how seriously comic sites react to something that is obviously a joke. 

Some people seem to really lack a sense of humour. I think it's a great marketing strategy, it makes me smile and I hope they keep having these three insist on the name of the movie being a different thing, right up to release date.

 

[FnkyChkn34]

12 hours ago, Dani said:

Spider-Man 3 already has an interesting marketing strategy. 

Spider-Man 3 gets three titles: Home-Wrecker, Phone Home and Home Slice

What if Tom Holland really does think one of those is the title, because they won't tell him the real one? 🤣  Has he learned how to not talk about spoilers yet? 😉 

[benteen]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:44 PM, Bruinsfan said:

For me the worst will always be Iron Man 2. So much of it is just cringeworthy to me, with Black Widow being just about the only silver lining. That's the one MCU movie I'll immediately change the channel from if I come across it. The rest of them I find enjoyable to a greater or lesser degree, and will at least play in the background to focus on for action sequences or particularly good character moments.  I'll drop whatever I'm doing to watch broadcasts of The Avengers and the first two Captain America movies even though I own DVDs of two and can watch the third on Disney + whenever I feel like it.

Iron Man 2 was absolutely awful.  It should have gone with some variation of Demon in the Bottle.  Instead, it relied on Tony's wackiness and the film came up short.  The villains certainly didn't help as they might be the most unimposing in the MCU.  Rourke, when he's not mumbling, attacks Tony midway through and fails, then proceeds to spend most of the film away from things before ultimately failing again.  Sam Rockwell is funny but Justin Hammer is so unthreatening as a villain that he can't even threaten Pepper.  Black Widow's debut is a highlight of the film, as is Garry Shandling interestingly enough.

Thor The Dark World is another misfire.  Let's have two hours of Thor being absolutely miserable with no humor whatsoever.  Let's give us another group of weak villains, with the main villain losing a fight to Thor's mom (this isn't a gender thing...Zod losing a fight to Superman's dad at the beginning of Man of Steel is also just as bad).  Ragnarok is so light and day better than The Dark World.

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, benteen said:

Ragnarok is so light and day better than The Dark World.

I love Ragnarok so much! From the "drama" showcasing Loki's "death" (played by Matt Damon), to Thor (played by another Hemsworth brother), to real Thor unmasking Loki, to Thor getting that haircut from Stan Lee's "barber" and Thor's utter JOY at seeing Hulk as the "Contender".

"He's a friend from work!"

Loki's utter Glee when Hulk tosses Thor around like a ragdoll: "You see! See how you like it!" (or something like that)

And the SHEER AWESOMENESS of seeing Thor's Eye go all lightning blue and his whole body shimmering with same before he pounds on Hulk with, again, that awesome song "Immigrant Song" playing.

What?

Ahem.

This is what happens when I rewatch out of order and one right after another. Watched Captain Marvel last night--and how could I have forgotten how BADASS and AWESOME she looked near the end when she was all glowing and destroyed those missiles and Supreme Being or whatever's ships? An example of how she would just rip through Thanos' ship in Endgame. Pfft. Nothing to it.

But then here comes the confusion--the "core" or Tesseract is something that Carol gives Fury here. Yet, in Avengers (it was Avengers, wasn't it?) Fury tells Steve that Howard Stark found it in the ocean when he was looking for Steve. So, are there more than one Tesseracts? I admit, I don't know what happened in the comics and from watching these movies, there was only the one that the team to always be after, so just color me majorly confused. As this took place over 50 years after Steve's plane went down in the icy water.

Edited February 25, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[stealinghome]

49 minutes ago, benteen said:

Iron Man 2 was absolutely awful.  It should have gone with some variation of Demon in the Bottle.  Instead, it relied on Tony's wackiness and the film came up short.  The villains certainly didn't help as they might be the most unimposing in the MCU.  Rourke, when he's not mumbling, attacks Tony midway through and fails, then proceeds to spend most of the film away from things before ultimately failing again.  Sam Rockwell is funny but Justin Hammer is so unthreatening as a villain that he can't even threaten Pepper.  Black Widow's debut is a highlight of the film, as is Garry Shandling interestingly enough.

Agree that Black Widow is definitely the highlight of Iron Man 2, even if the film pretty much just characterizes her as "the hot chick." Whenever IM2 is on TV, I make a point of tuning in to when she mows down the guards at Hammer's facility. Great action set-piece.

I also think IM2 has the fundamental flaw of forgetting that what made Iron Man such a good movie is that Tony had to take responsibility for his previous shittiness. Tony is so wildly compelling in the first Iron Man precisely because he has this massive realization and takes steps to be a better person. Iron Man 2 has Tony being an asshole to everyone he loves and f'ing up left, right, and center, and the movie just...lets him off the hook at the end. There's no accountability. I hated Tony throughout IM2 and the movie really soured me on the character when all his shittiness was just forgiven at the end.

Which is why I think I prefer IM3, even though I've seen it way less than IM2. IM3 has its problems for sure, but the core emotional arc for Tony--of realizing that his trauma is a Bad Thing and he needs to find better ways of coping with it before it truly destroys him and everyone around him--is way more compelling, and more in line for what Tony as a character benefits from.

Edited February 24, 2021 by stealinghome

[frenchtoast]

21 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But then here comes the confusion--the "core" or Tesseract is something that Carol gives Fury here. Yet, in Avengers (it was Avengers, wasn't it?) Fury tells Steve that Howard Stark found it in the ocean when he was looking for Steve. So, are there more than one Tesseracts? I admit, I don't know what happened in the comics and from watching these movies, there was only the one that the team to always be after, so just color me majorly confused. As this took place over 50 years after Steve's plane went down in the icy water.

Well, Howard could have found it and SHIELD kept it and then Lawson/Mar-Vell was working with it as part of SHIELD/Air Force. So Mar-Vell had it in orbit around earth and Carol brought it back down to terra firma. That doesn't strike me as too out of bounds. It could be Mar-Vell figured out the humans had it and worked with them in order to get to it. She was a little bit rogue, but she seemed to be able to work within the system until effing Yon Rogge (that name could be spelled wrong) screwed it all up.

Also, I loved Annette Benning in that movie. She was awesome.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

48 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Agree that Black Widow is definitely the highlight of Iron Man 2, even if the film pretty much just characterizes her as "the hot chick." Whenever IM2 is on TV, I make a point of tuning in to when she mows down the guards at Hammer's facility. Great action set-piece.

 

I want to love that scene, but in the lead up the movie does the one thing I hate about action movies featuring female characters directed by a man--Natasha lets her hair down before kicking ass.  Long flowing hair has no place in an action sequence.  It's a liability.  There is a reason why all female athletes put their hair up before competing.  

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Iron Man 2 was absolutely awful.  It should have gone with some variation of Demon in the Bottle.  Instead, it relied on Tony's wackiness and the film came up short.  The villains certainly didn't help as they might be the most unimposing in the MCU.  Rourke, when he's not mumbling, attacks Tony midway through and fails, then proceeds to spend most of the film away from things before ultimately failing again.  Sam Rockwell is funny but Justin Hammer is so unthreatening as a villain that he can't even threaten Pepper.  Black Widow's debut is a highlight of the film, as is Garry Shandling interestingly enough.

Thor The Dark World is another misfire.  Let's have two hours of Thor being absolutely miserable with no humor whatsoever.  Let's give us another group of weak villains, with the main villain losing a fight to Thor's mom (this isn't a gender thing...Zod losing a fight to Superman's dad at the beginning of Man of Steel is also just as bad).  Ragnarok is so light and day better than The Dark World.

I think I've only seen Iron Man 2 once, so I give the worst movie nod to Thor: The Dark World.  The first Thor wasn't that great either.  I think Ragnarok works because they finally gave Thor a personality.  Albeit, they basically stole Tony Stark's snarky sarcastic personality, but it worked.  But the second one was just so boring.  I can't even pinpoint why it was so awful, it just... was.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Iron Man 2 was absolutely awful.  It should have gone with some variation of Demon in the Bottle.  Instead, it relied on Tony's wackiness and the film came up short.  The villains certainly didn't help as they might be the most unimposing in the MCU.  Rourke, when he's not mumbling, attacks Tony midway through and fails, then proceeds to spend most of the film away from things before ultimately failing again.  Sam Rockwell is funny but Justin Hammer is so unthreatening as a villain that he can't even threaten Pepper.  Black Widow's debut is a highlight of the film, as is Garry Shandling interestingly enough.

Justin Hammer should have been played as that whacky, unthreatening joke of a guy up to a point, then they should have had him ruthlessly kill someone, to make the viewer realise that he's still incredibly dangerous. Sam Rockwell could have nailed that scene. Rourke never should have been cast at all, he's terrible.

I don't have as many problems with the content of Tony's storyline - the thing about being poisoned by the reactor was interesting but half-baked, and the pay off was just thrown out there and forgotten - there's no scene where Pepper really understands what he's been going through and reacts to it, or where Rhodey or Happy do. I think Demon in a Bottle would have been too heavy, and too early in the MCU timeline, to be done properly. However, it could certainly have worked for Iron Man 3 or for a movie that took place after Civil War.

[supposebly]

The best thing about Iron Man 2 is this line delivered to perfection: Sir, I'm gonna have to ask you to exit the donut! Sadly, it's really the only good one.

Overall, it had some good ideas but none were worked out well. I agree, Whiplash was pointless and Hammer could have been a scary villain.

[Bruinsfan]

9 hours ago, swanpride said:

I frankly don't care if those characters are necessarily like in the comics. Most of them aren't and most of them have been improved because of it. Ie I take MCU Vulture over Comic Vulture any day.

I'll grant you that Vulture, Nebula, and Loki are better than their comics equivalents (at least until Kieron Gillen and Al Ewing started writing Loki). And potentially Baron Mordo, though we really haven't seen much of him in villain mode yet. But I'd say Ultron, Malekith, Hela, and the Grandmaster are inferior to the comics versions, and most of the other villain adaptations have been a wash.

[Starfish35]

28 minutes ago, supposebly said:

The best thing about Iron Man 2 is this line delivered to perfection: Sir, I'm gonna have to ask you to exit the donut!

Yes, that was perfect. 😂  I think that and the scene where Natasha takes Happy down when he’s condescendingly trying to give her a boxing lesson are my two favorite things about that movie.  Otherwise, yeah, it’s pretty much a misfire.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Starfish35

[jah1986]

That was fun, although I'm not sure I've even seen Thor: Darkworld one time.

[Matt K]

I actually like Iron Man 3.  But then again I'm a huge fan of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and this was essentially a spiritual sequel to it.  Thor 2 is tough to like but I can't entirely write off the movie since the Thor-Loki parts made the movie for me. Thor 1 may be the one I like the least since it was such an average movie (nothing too good but nothing too bad either).  AoU is pretty far down for me since it's a huge mess.  But, as mentioned above, it has a lot to like (the party scene is a favorite of mine).  

 

Personally I find it easier to make a tier list for the MCU movies since my preferences within each tier tends to change but the general tiers are consistent.  

[Starfish35]

Loki premiering on June 11

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, benteen said:

Rourke, when he's not mumbling, attacks Tony midway through and fails,

That was probably the dumbest fight scene in any Marvel movie. You had a guy who can fly and shoot things from his hands losing to a guy who can't fly with whips (whips!). The only thing that saved Tony was happy and the limo. Captain Marvel was smart enough to know that if you can shoot someone from far away that is the better option. Although the briefcase armour was pretty cool.

[JessePinkman]

Spider-Man 3: The Remix got an official title. Watch till the end.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLrwIoAll9U/

Instagram won't embed for some reason but anyway the title is Spider-Man: No Way Home.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But then here comes the confusion--the "core" or Tesseract is something that Carol gives Fury here. Yet, in Avengers (it was Avengers, wasn't it?) Fury tells Steve that Howard Stark found it in the ocean when he was looking for Steve. So, are there more than one Tesseracts? I admit, I don't know what happened in the comics and from watching these movies, there was only the one that the team to always be after, so just color me majorly confused. As this took place over 50 years after Steve's plane went down in the icy water.

It’s the same Tesseract. Howard was involved in Project PEGASUS with Mar-Vell. There are a couple of references to it in Iron Man 2 when Tony is looking through his father’s things. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Guest

[AimingforYoko]

20 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

Spider-Man: No Way Home.

That doesn't seem like an optimistic title.

[Sakura12]

Mine is fairly accurate. Except AoU should be lower. 

 

[Danny Franks]

59 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

Spider-Man 3: The Remix got an official title. Watch till the end.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLrwIoAll9U/

Instagram won't embed for some reason but anyway the title is Spider-Man: No Way Home.

First: Boo. I wanted them to keep pretending the movie had different titles.

Second: Peter in hiding because he's been outed as Spider-Man? Or is it perhaps a multiverse thing? I don't know if those rumours of Maguire and Garfield appearing were ever substantiated.

[Morrigan2575]

Oh that was cute. Interesting title, especially if this is basically a Live Action Into The Spider-Verse

[Kel Varnsen]

28 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Second: Peter in hiding because he's been outed as Spider-Man? Or is it perhaps a multiverse thing? I don't know if those rumours of Maguire and Garfield appearing were ever substantiated.

I really hope it is a Peter in hiding thing since Jonah outed him. I also hope the the multiverse stuff is just like a post credits teaser for Doctor Strange 2 which comes out a few months later. Because if not that is a lot of plot for a Spider-Man movie which I think work better if they are kind of lighter. Plus they already teased Michael Mando as scorpion in Homecoming, and Scorpion's comic backstory is that he was created by Jameson to capture spiderman. 

Plus two multiverse movies in a row seems like a lot. And DS2 has the word multiverse right in the title.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Kel Varnsen