The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Raja]

1 minute ago, swanpride said:

Well, AoS already established that there have been multiple Ghost riders, so I don't quite see how it would confuse the issue, as long as they agree how and when she took over….

The entire thing about Marvel Studios and Marvel TV from the nerd perspective is do you have to watch the Agents and Netflix shows to get the full Infinity Saga experience. While I would agree that any Ghost Rider can be punched into a story with no continuity disruption if you follow the Agents of SHIELD the Marvel Studios/Feige and his chosen director still want to ignore what they did not do entirely.

Having a Hulu show out with a past Ghost Rider would be like the NetFlix shows sometime after the Battle of New York but not necessarily "now"

[clack]

Spiderman 3 is back in the MCU, to be released 7/26/21.

That's cool, but after that it looks like Sony will have him for good. I would have liked to have him on the new Avengers.

Edited September 27, 2019 by clack

[Bruinsfan]

Ideally he would have been the Iron Man to Carol Danvers' Cap.

[Raja]

22 minutes ago, clack said:

Spiderman 3 is back in the MCU, to be released 7/26/21.

That's cool, but after that it looks like Sony will have him for good. I would have liked to have him on the new Avengers.

I guess the Ghost Rider(s) discussion just got knock off the headlines.☺️

[Spartan Girl]

50 minutes ago, clack said:

Spiderman 3 is back in the MCU, to be released 7/26/21.

That's cool, but after that it looks like Sony will have him for good. I would have liked to have him on the new Avengers.

Well, I'm glad we're getting a third movie instead of ANOTHER fucking reboot.  I liked this version.

[Enigma X]

56 minutes ago, clack said:

Spiderman 3 is back in the MCU, to be released 7/26/21.

That's cool, but after that it looks like Sony will have him for good. I would have liked to have him on the new Avengers.

Happy to read this but wanted him back for good.

[benteen]

I figured they would resolve this.  I wouldn't rule out him appearing further after 2021.

[SimoneS]

This is good news for Spider-Man fans. The deal seems to be one more movie and he appears in one MCU movie. Better Disney/MCU continues to partner with Sony to protect Spider-Man from Sony's disastrous movie making. I hope this partnership also covers the next Miles Morales animated movie. 

Ugh, I just read the news about Ghost Rider. I love Gabriel Luna as Robbie Reyes.

Edited September 27, 2019 by SimoneS

[benteen]

Spider-Man would likely be in a future Avengers movie.  I suspect he'll continue to appear in them after another deal is reached.  If not, well, Peter never had much need for the Avengers for the first forty-plus years of his comic existence so...

[swanpride]

Well, now I am REALLY glad that I didn't bother to speculate about Spider-Man in my article about the future of the MCU. Told you that this was only a matter of time.

Re-Ghost Rider and other TV shows: Just like one doesn't have to watch all the movies to get what is going on in most movies, TV shows can also be optional. You can have an entire TV show about one Ghost Rider and a movie about the other without a direct need to watch both.

[tennisgurl]

Welcome back Peter! Hopefully it’s not only temporary...

[Jenniferbug]

If you haven't seen Tom Holland's post on Instagram, go check it out 😆

[wingster55]

So...more of Spider-Man being the exact opposite of the everyman he should be?

Greaaaaat. 

[Jeebus Cripes]

15 hours ago, clack said:

Spiderman 3 is back in the MCU, to be released 7/26/21.

[swanpride]

I'm not sure why you are complaining. Sony will most likely work with Into the Spider-verse, too, so I am sure there will be one version you like. Let those who like the Holland version have their fun.

[Danny Franks]

Spider-Man back in the MCU? Great. Because too much of this version of the character is bound up in that world, and I genuinely don't think it would work if they tried to silently retcon all of that.

I'm not a big fan of Spider-Man having the resources to do anything and build anything, because I do like the character as a "friendly, neighbourhood Spider-Man". I don't want him to be the figurehead of the Avengers, and there's a reason that the comics avoided having him as a member at all for forty years - He doesn't fit that larger than life, team ethos.

Of course, this version of the character is very much inspired by the pre-Civil War Spider-Man who worked for Tony Stark and was given the Iron Spider suit and voluntarily revealed his identity in support for the Superhuman Registration Act.

Spider-Man in Sony's Spider-Verse? Who gives a shit? They don't have a Spider-Verse, they just have a Venom movie that has no connection to Spider-Man whatsoever.

[Morrigan2575]

On 9/27/2019 at 7:36 AM, Raja said:

It, Ghost Rider TV with Robbie Reyes/Gabriel Luna, was going to be a Hulu original. The last rumor I read was for a different Ghost Rider than the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D/Hulu Robbie Reyes, perhaps a woman for an upcoming movie. The AoS origin of Reyes is pretty easy to work around without breaking the "it's all connected" continuity but with increasing narrative content made that gets to be more at risk

Thanks for Clarifying, i didn't know the Ghost Rider Show was planned for Hulu and not Disney+.  Was this in the works for a long time?  I know Disney has a majority stake in Hulu but, i thought they'd put everything on Disney+

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Thanks for Clarifying, i didn't know the Ghost Rider Show was planned for Hulu and not Disney+.  Was this in the works for a long time?  I know Disney has a majority stake in Hulu but, i thought they'd put everything on Disney+

It was back in May 2019 and Hulu announced it was going ahead with Helstrom, which I suppose is still a thing and the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider with Gabriel Luna from the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. arc. Many Genre message boards along with this board had already opened up Ghost Rider threads and forums. So while Netflix had their street level brawlers it looked like Hulu was going towards demons and devils and many speculated that a MCU Blade would end up there thus separating the devil from the mouse and the Disney banner

For now Helstrom is still up coming and the Runaways remain with Hulu. Cloak and Dagger who will crossover with the Runawways on FreeForm and one more season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.  on ABC.  And when Disney + comes we get the original MCU Avengers sidekicks having their miniseries.  Plus plans for animated shows.

[blueray]

I am really happy that Spiderman is back in the MCU. I just couldn't see how Sony could write a good movie that resolved the cliffhanger of the movie before it without talking about what happened or the characters involved. I hope now they can use Happy in the third movie as well as Ned and MJ.  Happy will be a big help for Peter dealing with his identity being revealed.

If I understand it correctly he also will appear in a MCU movie as well. I'm thinking Dr. Strange makes the most sense. As Peter already knows him and he also lives in NYC. Unless Disney wants to save him for an Avenger movie, but since there isn't one planned now, it probably make sense to use him in a near future movie before the deal runs out.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Thanks for Clarifying, i didn't know the Ghost Rider Show was planned for Hulu and not Disney+.  Was this in the works for a long time?  I know Disney has a majority stake in Hulu but, i thought they'd put everything on Disney+

Ghost Rider along with the other current tv shows were produced by Marvel Television which is overseen by Perlmutter. They air on ABC networks and Hulu. The Disney+ shows are produced by Marvel Studios and Feige. 

As Marvel Studios Moves Into Series, TV Unit’s Focus Is Unclear

Edited September 28, 2019 by Guest

[AimingforYoko]

I saw another article also saying that the Marvel TV unit is done with live-action, they'll strictly be animation. Feige's victory is pretty much total. The suits will always back the cash cow.

[swanpride]

I wouldn't necessarily mind that, but I hope that this doesn't mean the end of Cloak and Dagger. (Though I have the bad feeling that the show is cancelled anyway).

And I would hate it if AoS and Agent Carter are just discarded. The characters in those shows deserve to continue to exist in Marvel movies.

[Raja]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

I wouldn't necessarily mind that, but I hope that this doesn't mean the end of Cloak and Dagger. (Though I have the bad feeling that the show is cancelled anyway).

And I would hate it if AoS and Agent Carter are just discarded. The characters in those shows deserve to continue to exist in Marvel movies.

Once Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. hits its finale I would guess you never see anybody from Marvel TV again  and except that Jarvis cameo and Endgame and Coulson in Captain Marvel not another mention of anyone in a movie of Disney + miniseries. As the show ran besides the various Inhumans only a Deathlok, a Ghost Rider and Graviton might have gotten a director's or Feige's interest.

Thus Robbie Reyes had to go since Ghost Rider, with two motion pictures already, is a candidate for a MCU reboot. And if Fantastic Four makes it to their third or so picture probably a reboot of the Inhumans royals, if not the Nu(In)humans coming from a source other than environmental damage cause by a battle with Daisy's mother. But then ultimately an Inhuman is just a mutant with a different trigger to start their powers in my eyes.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

And I would hate it if AoS and Agent Carter are just discarded. The characters in those shows deserve to continue to exist in Marvel movies.

Haven't they already been discarded,. Agents of shield at least. I mean I haven't got around to finishing last season but from the episodes I saw they completely ignored Thanos and the snap.  How can they come back to be part of the movies after that, other than a deaged Coulson?

[swanpride]

I suspect they will use season 7 to clear that up.

[Raja]

31 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Haven't they already been discarded,. Agents of shield at least. I mean I haven't got around to finishing last season but from the episodes I saw they completely ignored Thanos and the snap.  How can they come back to be part of the movies after that, other than a deaged Coulson?

I think it is evident that for the season 5 finale with Graviton they guessed how Infinity War was going to turn out from the trailers but guessed wrong. When they got season 7 it came with it the potential to time travel their way back into continuity with the Avengers. However I think most of the production was done before they got a chance to see how Endgame would finish up their time travel rules.

The five year snap to blip back gap would have been the perfect place to end the series, if they had known.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, Raja said:

The five year snap to blip back gap would have been the perfect place to end the series, if they had known

Honestly having this past season be like SHIElD doing a much less violent version of what Hawkeye was doing post snap (stopping bad guys from taking advantage of the situation and cleaning up problems) had the potential to be awesome. But so far what they did with alternate universe Coulson and space adventures on a TV budget that look nothing like the outer space we have seen in the MCU just doesn't grab my interest. And if they make a Captain Marvel 2 or 3 set in current time, it wouldn't surprise me to see Coulson show up and retcon most or all of the AoS series.

[swanpride]

Honestly, I wouldn't have minded it if they had just stayed before Endgame in the timeline (which they were anyway, the last three seasons were basically happening within two months if not for the vague mentioning of time jumps in season 5 and 6). And what they have planned for season 7 sounds like the perfect conclusion to the show.

[Guest]

Kevin Feige takes over as Marvel chief creative officer -- now what?

Feige now has complete creative control over all Marvel movies, tv shows and comics. 

[Captain Carrot]

7 minutes ago, Dani said:

Feige now has complete creative control over all Marvel movies, tv shows and comics

And according to this article Perlmutter's influence has been drastically cut. It may be petty to feel schadenfreude, but for some reason I don't care.

Quote

Marvel Entertainment President Dan Buckley, who oversees Marvel TV, will now only report to Perlmutter for Marvel games, events (such as the Marvel Universe Live! arena show), and licensing. He, and Marvel TV, will otherwise report to Feige direct

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/kevin-feige-marvel-takeover-ike-perlmutter-1202181890/

[swanpride]

Well, looks like at least the Marvel Civil War had a winner….

[Bruinsfan]

I guess the end boss in the next videogame Marvel develops will look a lot like Feige...

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

Well, looks like at least the Marvel Civil War had a winner….

I was thinking the same thing. Ha. Kevin Feige has finally defeated his rivals and has been crowned as the official Marvel king. 

I am being snarky, but honestly, Disney can't be faulted for wanting to streamline Marvel and doing whatever it takes to keep Feige happy and churning out profits. I just hope that he doesn't burn out.

[Danny Franks]

Just goes to show, if you make five billion dollars for your bosses in a single year, they're likely to think highly of you.

Feige has done an incredibly job of marshalling the MCU and keeping it all focused, without any significant drop in the quality of the movies (a few relatively bad ones, but even they were a clear step above anything DC or Fox have been doing with superheroes).

Giving Feige full control over the TV shows will hopefully allow for a generation of television that is clearly linked to the movies. Giving him control of the comics? I'm not sure what to think about that. I definitely believe Marvel comics are better when they're doing their own thing, rather than trying to ape the MCU.

Hopefully Feige will see it the same way, and allow Marvel editors to keep doing the work they do.

[Kel Varnsen]

18 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Giving him control of the comics? I'm not sure what to think about that. I definitely believe Marvel comics are better when they're doing their own thing, rather than trying to ape the MCU.

Hopefully Feige will see it the same way, and allow Marvel editors to keep doing the work they do.

I imagine that based on what his schedule is like Feige probably has little time to deal with the comics division, beyond high level things like hiring bosses. I looked up sales numbers and a top selling comic will sell around 250,000 units a month. At $5 a copy that is only $1.25 million monthly in retail sales for your biggest titles. To put that in perspective Endgame made more money than that on its opening weekend, in Hungary.

As for Pearlmutter I wonder if he got any kind of retirement package/golden parachute deal. If not he will have to dry his tears on his millions of dollars and ridiculous amount of Disney shares he owns.

[xaxat]

20 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

And according to this article Perlmutter's influence has been drastically cut.

Good thing Perlmutter still has his day job running the Department of Veterans Affairs.

[swanpride]

I think he still has merch and some of the finances under him...

[clack]

On 10/16/2019 at 1:35 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I imagine that based on what his schedule is like Feige probably has little time to deal with the comics division, beyond high level things like hiring bosses. I looked up sales numbers and a top selling comic will sell around 250,000 units a month. At $5 a copy that is only $1.25 million monthly in retail sales for your biggest titles. To put that in perspective Endgame made more money than that on its opening weekend, in Hungary.

Only a #1 issue will sell in the 250,000 unit range. Subsequent issues of even a Marvel top seller will ship around 120,000.

For contrast, X-men #1 sold well over 8 million copies in 1991.  The comics division could definitely use a shot in the arm. Perhaps Feige can help provide it.

[swanpride]

I know fans don't want to hear it but...well, there is a couple of things which can be done. For starters, getting the comic books out of the comic book store and selling selected issues at places where people might buy something for some light reading. You know, at airports, train stations aso. And they need to take inspiration from Mangas and have more stories which are easily accessible, meaning, something the common MCU fan might see and think "oh, this looks like something interesting and fast to read" without having the feeling to start in the middle of the story (just putting "Number 1" on the cover doesn't help) and never getting to an end anyway.

[clack]

Time was that a writer would have to prove herself/himself on indie comics before being hired to write for Marvel.

Last few years, they've hired people whose only writing experience is blogging, or writing a book of poetry, or self-publishing a YA novel. (Real examples).

It's a good idea to hire outside the group of usual suspects, but if Marvel does so, it needs editors with the time and ability to develop inexperienced writers -- writers who may have never read a superhero comic before. (Real examples).

DC and Marvel publish about 50 titles a month each. Selling these books in airports or train stations is not an option (though cutting back on the number of titles might be).

Edited October 17, 2019 by clack

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, clack said:

Only a #1 issue will sell in the 250,000 unit range. Subsequent issues of even a Marvel top seller will ship around 120,000.

For contrast, X-men #1 sold well over 8 million copies in 1991.  The comics division could definitely use a shot in the arm. Perhaps Feige can help provide it.

That is sort of my point though. Feige probably already had 0 free time when he was running a studio putting out billion dollar plus movies on a regular basis. Now add a TV studio on top of that, and whatever he is doing with Star Wars. The comics division is tiny compared to that which is why I can't see him prioritizing it any time soon.

[swanpride]

Well, it is not like he is doing everything personally. All a matter of smart delegation.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That is sort of my point though. Feige probably already had 0 free time when he was running a studio putting out billion dollar plus movies on a regular basis. Now add a TV studio on top of that, and whatever he is doing with Star Wars. The comics division is tiny compared to that which is why I can't see him prioritizing it any time soon.

He’s not going to be running the comic division. Dan Buckley is still the president of Marvel Entertainment. The only change is the Feige gets the final say on all creative decisions. It’s probably just to make sure Perlmutter can’t make stupid decisions.

[clack]

It's a bit of a mystery up to now who has had final say in the comics division. It hasn't been Perlmutter (the politics of the comics are uniformly progressive, anti-Trump). It isn't C.B. Cebulski, the nominal editor-in-chief, whose decisions as to which low-selling titles to cancel are frequently over-ruled.

Joe Quesada maybe?

Anyway, it's been a long time since Marvel has created characters as compelling as those created decades ago by Lee, Kirby, Ditko, and Wein. Maybe that's an area upon which Feige can concentrate.

[Bruinsfan]

They haven't ever if you set the bar that high. I think the Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel is their most recent compelling success, with the Young Avengers and Jessica Jones in the oughts, and Deadpool and maybe Squirrel Girl in the 90s.

[swanpride]

There is also Jane Fosters Thor run....she actually sold better than OG Thor....

But it is hard to come up with new characters after so many years.

[Fukui San]

They come up with plenty of new characters, it's just getting people to read them in numbers enough to be compelling is the issue.

Frankly, the movies should subsidize the comics for development purposes. If nothing else they're a useful first draft for future movie ideas.

[swanpride]

I suspect that they already see them that way.

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Fukui San said:

They come up with plenty of new characters, it's just getting people to read them in numbers enough to be compelling is the issue.

Frankly, the movies should subsidize the comics for development purposes. If nothing else they're a useful first draft for future movie ideas.

I'm not sure if it has gotten any better but back in the late 90s early 2000 when I was reading comics a lot of creators didn't want to develop new characters for marvel because then Marvel would own those characters completely. Look at how many characters Kurt Busiek created for Astro City that could have been Avengers.

[Captain Carrot]

8 hours ago, swanpride said:

But it is hard to come up with new characters after so many years.

8 hours ago, swanpride said:

There is also Jane Fosters Thor run....she actually sold better than OG Thor....

9 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

and Deadpool and maybe Squirrel Girl in the 90s.

The interesting thing is that Squirrel Girl wasn't a popular character until very recently, Deadpool did have more initial popularity, but didn't become really popular until recently either, and Jane Foster was just a supporting character for decades.

Tons of characters are created to a collective meh and then something; the right creative team, an appearance in a movie, or simply changing tastes and demographics brings them to the forefront.

Which is why the more diverse characters Marvel is creating right now are so important. A lot of those characters will be initial failures. But eventually some of those failures will be as big as Squirrel Girl, Deadpool, or even Spider-man.

To bring this post back to the movies. I think Fukui San and Swanpride are correct about keeping the comics going for source material purposes. And I'm fairly certain that someone from Marvel (Quesada?) has admitted as much in interviews. So, we might see a Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur movie some day.