The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Bruinsfan]

On 7/1/2018 at 5:48 PM, Wynterwolf said:

Yeah, my uncle married and had two kids, but he was still beaten and jailed because he was gay in the '40s and '50s.  And Bucky seemed to be paying a lot more attention to Steve on those dates, than he was to the girls.  ;-)

Yeah, I got the distinct impression Bucky was more disappointed that Steve wouldn't be joining in on giving him a proper sendoff than he was thrilled at the implied threesome he was left with. There was a strong homoerotic vibe to that Expo scene and none of it was flowing from Chris Evans.

[JessePinkman]

See, my theory is that Bucky is really into twinks so when Steve gained all that muscle mass Buck was over it. There's still love there but they're just not a match.

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

There was a strong homoerotic vibe to that Expo scene and none of it was flowing from Chris Evans.

 

45 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

See, my theory is that Bucky is really into twinks so when Steve gained all that muscle mass Buck was over it.

(moved reply to the LGBT-approved Superhero discussion thread)

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/28/2018 at 1:43 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"Every time someone tries to win the war before it starts, innocent people die. Every time." - Steve Rogers, Age of Ultron
 

Which is kind of a dumb comment when you think about it because everytime someone tries to win a war after it starts innocent people die as well. 

[Wynterwolf]

Happy Birthday Steve.  Time for a CA:TFA, CA:TWS. CA:CW rewatch today (and then AntMan and The Wasp on Friday!).

Edited July 4, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[starri]

[SnoGirl]

2 hours ago, starri said:

Lol, this was floating around FB too. I’ll be watching First Avenger tonight after the fireworks ?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 6/28/2018 at 6:12 AM, Jeebus Cripes said:

I wouldn't say Steve doesn't care about what Bucky did. They twisted his mind and took away his free will. Should Bucky serve time for killing innocent people when he was little more than someone's meat puppet? 

But this is my point, that Bucky had no free will. He killed people while he couldn't stop himself, but he still feels bad about it because.....why? If he's innocent because it wasn't really him, it's weird conceptually that he still carries that guilt. Particularly when Steve is all, There, there. Don't worry your pretty little head about it. I suppose I can see the comparison between Bucky and Clint, but Natasha reassuring Barton never comes off like, I've spent a good portion of every movie I've been in telling other people how they should act, but now I'm going to toss all that out the window and kick the hell out of someone who has a legitimate gripe. In the letter he sends to Tony at the end of CW, Steve admits that by not telling the truth he was protecting himself just as much as he was protecting either Stark or Bucky, so IMO it was less about whether or not Barnes was innocent than it was about Cap's own issues.

[Raja]

25 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

But this is my point, that Bucky had no free will. He killed people while he couldn't stop himself, but he still feels bad about it because.....why? If he's innocent because it wasn't really him, it's weird conceptually that he still carries that guilt. 

Bucky would feel bad about The Winter Soldier's actions because he, Bucky Barnes, failed in his resistance attempt. Little different than the POW who gave in to the Nazi, Japanese, North Korean, North Vietnamese prison camp cadre when some of his mates did not break but still survived the camp. Many of our mythical heroes would have been  able to resist what we thought of as an impossible situation.

[Wynterwolf]

50 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

so IMO it was less about whether or not Barnes was innocent than it was about Cap's own issues.

What do you see those issues as being?  I'm not disagreeing, I'm curious what you think were Steve's (and Natasha's) reasons for not telling Tony?  

[HunterHunted]

@Wynterwolf you bring up an interesting point. Natasha has almost all of the same info Steve has (she's obviously missing the formative pre-Winter Soldier memories of Bucky), but she doesn't say anything to Tony. It's actually very weird considering she has more negative knowledge of the Winter Soldier and she decides to be on Tony's side in Civil War.

[HunterHunted]

Because Civil War is on TV, I have to reiterate how bad the Lagos mission is. They have Black Widow and Scarlet Witch doing recon on the street in Lagos. Lagos has so few white people in it that Falcon in full battle gear with his wings out would attract less attention than Wanda and Nat. To make it accurate, they should have had every other person pointing at them asking who are these white ladies. I'm Nigerian-American and get clocked for being American without uttering a word every time I'm in Nigeria.

No one in their right mind would nominateThunderbolt Ross to be Secretary of State let alone confirm him. He also somehow has a Congressional Medal of Honor. For What? Most U.S. cities destroyed through obnoxious incompetence. This is truly the darkest timeline.

If this movie doesn't want me to ship Steve and Bucky, they would avoid lines like "Rumlow said Bucky and all of a sudden I was a 16 year old boy again in Brooklyn." These two have been friends since childhood. Why wouldn't the screenwriters choose any other age? Eight. Ten. Twelve. Eighteen. Or no age at all. Why pick an age commonly associated with teen love?

Wanda reminding Vision to not just phase through walls into people's rooms makes me think he's a not so secret creeper.

Vision's dumb argument that simply by existing, the Avengers invite challenge is stupid and only accurate in regards to Tony, who literally creates all of his antagonists.

I'm curious who this mystery person is who texted Steve that Peggy died. I'm choosing to believe that it's Coulson and that's another thing Steve is keeping from Tony.

So the MCU clearly thinks Hawkeye is the most worthless Avenger because Scott Lang flew all the way from San Francisco to Germany with Hawkeye and still calls him "Arrow Guy."

One line completely demonstrates that T'Challa is not a Black man from America--"Why did you run?" Is he serious? Cause you coming for me with guns and are trying to put a body on me. Fuck yes I'm running.

Everyone is busy apologizing to T'Chaka for the deaths of the Wakandan citizens, but no one apologized to Nigeria for violating their sovereignty. This movie really doesn't get the whole sovereignty issue because German special forces are used to capture Bucky in Romania and the hypocrite of hypocrites, T'Challa, comes to Romania to kill Bucky. Even when you allow foreign police or military to operate on your own soil you often have your own people accompanying them. The absence of any Romanian attache highlights how hilariously illegal this is. And the sovereignty issue is actually what the Sokovia Accords is about. This movie is filled with people violating sovereign borders.

Edited July 11, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

But this is my point, that Bucky had no free will. He killed people while he couldn't stop himself, but he still feels bad about it because.....why? If he's innocent because it wasn't really him, it's weird conceptually that he still carries that guilt. 

People blaming themselves for things they have no control over is a pretty common thing though. Lots of victims of crimes think it was there fault, so do people who get hurt in random accidents or get random illnesses. Not much of a stretch to think victims of mind control would think the same thing.

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Wanda reminding Vision to not just phase through walls into people's rooms makes me think he's a not so secret creeper.

Never thought about that before, but Vision is a super advanced robot whose brain is powered by an infinity stone. Why would such a robot have to be reminded of anything?

[Raja]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Because Civil War is on TV, I have to reiterate how bad the Lagos mission is. They have Black Widow and Scarlet Witch doing recon on the street in Lagos. Lagos has so few white people in it that Falcon in full battle gear with his wings out would attract less attention than Wanda and Nat. To make it accurate, they should have had every other person pointing at them asking who are these white ladies. I'm Nigerian-American and get clocked for being American without uttering a word every time I'm in Nigeria.

No one in their right mind would nominateThunderbolt Ross to be Secretary of State let alone confirm him. He also somehow has a Congressional Medal of Honor. For What? Most U.S. cities destroyed through obnoxious incompetence. This is truly the darkest timeline.

 

The Medal of Honor usually doesn't work like that. While a few seem to be given more for home front moral during a bad time most are given for unquestionably the real deal as a combatant, not as a behind the scenes commander. Just accept that Lieutenant or Captain Ross did something that most folks thought he would not survive and later rose to General and Secretary Of State.

 

I guess they just could have had the male Avengers grow a beard in Lagos and just like that they become another group of special operations soldiers who populate every action and adventure movie and TV show. I don't know how you have both diverse cast and set the shows in places without as much diversity as an American big city without pretending the outsiders are just tourist and not that out of place.

[Jeebus Cripes]

10 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

But this is my point, that Bucky had no free will. He killed people while he couldn't stop himself, but he still feels bad about it because.....why? If he's innocent because it wasn't really him, it's weird conceptually that he still carries that guilt. Particularly when Steve is all, There, there. Don't worry your pretty little head about it. I suppose I can see the comparison between Bucky and Clint, but Natasha reassuring Barton never comes off like, I've spent a good portion of every movie I've been in telling other people how they should act, but now I'm going to toss all that out the window and kick the hell out of someone who has a legitimate gripe. In the letter he sends to Tony at the end of CW, Steve admits that by not telling the truth he was protecting himself just as much as he was protecting either Stark or Bucky, so IMO it was less about whether or not Barnes was innocent than it was about Cap's own issues.

IMO, Cap omitting the truth is because not only would it cause Tony more pain, but I'm sure he surmised that his reaction would be the same as what we saw. Not telling protects both Bucky and Tony in a sense. I'm not saying that omitting the truth was right, but I can understand his motivation for concealing it. I mean, look at the hot mess revealing it caused. I'd say Cap's issue here is trying to keep both friends safe. His heart was in the right place.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Jeebus Cripes

[Dee]

Except Steve and Tony aren't really friends.

Co-workers, sure.

But friends is a huge stretch.

And to be fair, Steve isn't really friends with post-Winter Soldier Bucky either imo.

[Wynterwolf]

11 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

If this movie doesn't want me to ship Steve and Bucky, they would avoid lines like "Rumlow said Bucky and all of a sudden I was a 16 year old boy again in Brooklyn." These two have been friends since childhood. Why wouldn't the screenwriters choose any other age? Eight. Ten. Twelve. Eighteen. Or no age at all. Why pick an age commonly associated with teen love?

Yeah, nearly everything about their story is lifted from a romance trope.  Plus, they're shown to be such close friends that their bond can even weaken/break decades of mind control.  All Bucky had to do was hear Steve say his name once, and he starts flashing back to real memories from before.  That kind of bond doesn't go away, even when you haven't seen someone in years.  

One of the things I keep coming back to re: Steve and Natasha's decision not to tell Tony about his parents is that when Zola first gave them that information, they had no idea Bucky was even still alive, so there was no reason for Steve to connect Tony's parent's death with Bucky.  Natasha might have connected it with the Winter Soldier, but at that time, they didn't know who that was.  So, it's murky regarding what Steve really knew and when, and Steve & Nat could have even thought later that Zola was lying to keep them occupied waiting for the missile.  Plus, they didn't have a lot of opportunity to talk to Tony until after all the shit went down at the Triskelion and with SHIELD/HYDRA, and it might have actually slipped their minds for a while.  But I also believed Steve when he told Tony he didn't know it was WinterSoldier!Bucky until Zemo told them.  

So for me, particularly since it was Steve and Natasha, I think they both made the decision (later) based on what they both thought about Tony's mental health, to keep that from him.  When someone has a known mental health issue, 'friends' can often take it upon themselves to decide whether that person can/should handle something, even though that's utter crap.  They absolutely should have told Tony what they had been told and then let Tony decide the potential veracity and whether it was something he wanted to look into.  But I also agree that Steve did it partly because he didn't want to be the one to tell Tony because he knew it would cause him a lot of pain, and there was already a tricky dynamic between them related to Howard, and as he acknowledged, that was absolutely a selfish decision on his part.  

[festivus]

13 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Wanda reminding Vision to not just phase through walls into people's rooms makes me think he's a not so secret creeper.

lol. I thought the same thing.

 

I can see why Bucky feels guilty for the things he's done. It's a human thing to feel guilty even for things you had no control over. I can just the imagine the shit he'd catch if he didn't. As far as Steve not telling Tony, besides plot, I always thought it was something that Steve himself doesn't want to face. He carries a lot of guilt for what happened to Bucky.

[VCRTracking]

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

 

He was very much a recluse, always refusing interviews.  He was dead for a couple of days in his apartment before his body was found.  :'(

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

 

He was very much a recluse, always refusing interviews.  He was dead for a couple of days in his apartment before his body was found.  :'(

I remember reading one Ditko interview from my comic book days which stated that he was using his original Spider-Man pages to clean pens. Sad that it took days to find his body though.

[Jeebus Cripes]

19 hours ago, Dee said:

Except Steve and Tony aren't really friends.

Co-workers, sure.

But friends is a huge stretch.

And to be fair, Steve isn't really friends with post-Winter Soldier Bucky either imo.

Tony thought otherwise.

 

I do wish they showed them developing their friendship throughout the films, in lieu of the hostile BS Whedon wrote for them. Unfortunately, it's one of those things where you're forced to read between the lines. Surely, they spent a lot of time together since that first Avengers film, and they consider each other friends. I love the crap out of Civil War, but it would have packed an insane emotional punch if we were shown said friendship instead of being told. They kind of dropped the ball on that one. I blame Whedon. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Jeebus Cripes

[Fool to cry]

[BetterButter]

[ChelseaNH]

After watching CA:CW on TNT, I'm reminded that Ross is in the line of succession for the presidency.  I would really rather not see that come into play.

[HunterHunted]

On 7/7/2018 at 1:55 AM, Jeebus Cripes said:

Tony thought otherwise.

 

I do wish they showed them developing their friendship throughout the films, in lieu of the hostile BS Whedon wrote for them. Unfortunately, it's one of those things where you're forced to read between the lines. Surely, they spent a lot of time together since that first Avengers film, and they consider each other friends. I love the crap out of Civil War, but it would have packed an insane emotional punch if we were shown said friendship instead of being told. They kind of dropped the ball on that one. I blame Whedon. 

But they aren't friends. They are friendly, but they aren't friends. Steve's actual friends (Sam and Natasha) knew to show up at Peggy's funeral. Tony was not at the funeral and as the de facto liaison between the Avengers and the U.S. government, he should have been there. The mismatch is entirely on Tony's end.

Whedon wrote them as lightly antagonistic, but the fault lies with Kevin Feige. Feige could have vetoed Steve and Tony's animosity. He didn't. We see that Tony has the resentment a younger sibling has for a revered older sibling when it comes to Steve. Steve, on the other hand, treats Tony like a coworker or superficial friend. Knowing that Civil War is where they were going, Feige dropped the ball by not making sure that Tony and Steve had a believable friendship. I don't know that I'd blame Whedon for not depicting a friendship. Marvel ran off Edgar Wright, Patty Jenkins, and...Joss Whedon. Steve and Tony's friendship relationship is the way it is because that's how Marvel wanted it to be.

R.I.P. Steve Ditko. He had a complicated relationship with Marvel, but his impact was undeniable.

[festivus]

They made a mistake not having Tony at that funeral but not just because of him and Steve's friendship or whatever it is. I feel like he had to have known Peggy as he was growing up because of Howard. Tony being who he is would have been interested in any part of Howard's life.

[Wynterwolf]

For me it made sense that Tony wouldn't really have a connection to Peggy, because most of what they have shown of Tony & Howard's relationship was that they were really never on the same page.  Even though they did genuinely care about each other deep down, neither of them showed it to the other. I thought that was kinda what Tony's BARF scenario with his parents right before they died was all about, Tony telling his dad that he loved him, because he'd never done that in real life, as he'd always been more antagonistic towards him.  So I could see Peggy's part in Howard's life being something Howard kept very separate from his wife and his son. 

Plus, I think Tony has a strong tendency to feel things much deeper than he shows, so the people around him really don't know how he feels about them (I think Bruce, Pepper and Rhodey are the ones that understand that the best and can interpret what he's not saying).  So I think TPTB's choice to leave Steve and Tony's relationship kind of ambiguous on screen makes sense, because I think Tony feels a lot closer to Steve than Steve has any idea about, and it gave some emotional complexity of Tony conflating how he felt about his father with how he felt about Steve, and with Steve choosing Bucky over him, exacerbating his feelings of insecurity, loneliness and jealousy... which Zemo played like a master conductor.      

[Dee]

Tony knew Steve would choose most anybody over him already though, which is why he reacts so petulantly/desperately to Nat/Sam/Wanda over the course of Civil War. There's a reason why out of all the Avengers, besides Thor, Tony's the one with the least connections to the other Avengers.

The fact that Tony would expect Steve to pick one of his best friends over him doesn't make any sense seeing as Tony had little remorse about creating a sentient murder-bot until directly confronted about his actions.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

After watching CA:CW on TNT, I'm reminded that Ross is in the line of succession for the presidency.  I would really rather not see that come into play.

Thanos, I will forgive all the deaths in IW -- permanent and temporary -- if you ensure this doesn't happen!

[scriggle]

4 hours ago, festivus said:

They made a mistake not having Tony at that funeral but not just because of him and Steve's friendship or whatever it is. I feel like he had to have known Peggy as he was growing up because of Howard. Tony being who he is would have been interested in any part of Howard's life.

In IM2 (3?), Tony had no idea Howard was one of the founders of SHIELD. To me that says Howard kept those parts of his life very separate. We really don't know how involved with SHIELD Howard was after Tony's birth, do we? So there's no reason to believe Tony was close to or even knew Peggy.

I, for one, am glad the writers kept Tony away from her funeral. The focus there needed to be on Steve and not shared with Tony. Because IMHO Cap3 had way too much focus on Tony. (Yes, I'm still bitter.)

Edited July 8, 2018 by scriggle
thinking faster than i type

[festivus]

1 hour ago, scriggle said:

In IM2 (3?), Tony had no idea Howard was one of the founders of SHIELD. To me that says Howard kept those parts of his life very separate. We really don't know how involved with SHIELD Howard was after Tony's birth, do we? So there's no reason to believe Tony was close to or even knew Peggy.

Okay I can go with that. I've only seen IM2 a couple of times and it's been awhile so I didn't remember that. It's not like with TFA and WS in which I can quote the dialog before they say it. Scary, I know.

[tennisgurl]

So, I saw Ant-Man and the Wasp today, and I thought it was a great, fun movie that was a nice palette cleanser after the devastation of Infinity War. It also made me think more about the treatment of people with powers or super tech, because some of the implications, especially post CW, definitely made me raise a few eyebrows...

Spoilers...

 

 

 

So Ghost AKA Ava was a child who got superpowers, then ended up in the care of SHIELD, who apparently experimented on her, trained her to be a super assassin from a young age, all the while saying they would help keep her from falling apart from her intangibility powers, and...they never did, and then SHIELD fell and she ended up having to find answers on her own with just her father figure Bill for help. So, this raises quite a few questions for me. First, using a metahuman child as an experiment and soldier is very villainous behavior from SHIELD, even by their morally grey standards. Or, another idea, that this was run by mostly HYDRA agents inside of SHIELD, but even then, someone who was non HYDRA in SHIELD must have known about Ava, was was alright with it. It really raises even more questions about the treatment of people with powers and abilities in the MCU, especially by the government. And this was years before Iron Man and the greater expansion of public superheroes! How long have people, even innocent children, with powers been used and abused by governments and organizations? How likely was it that the Accords, as run by a guy like Ross, would have ended up being like this, especially if they started "recruiting" powered kids, who we know exist in this world? What kind of presidents are there when it comes to the rights of enhanced humans? We already had that creepy scene in Jessica Jones where cops said that people with powers dont have the rights that non enhanced people have, and it sounds like that wasn't just bullshit, and was the actual lay of the land. The whole backstory of Ava seemed like a less brainwashed filled Winter Soldier backstory...except it was SHIELD, and not HYDRA. Allegedly. It really makes me wonder how much guys like Nick Fury or even Pierce knew about what was all going on. I even wonder if they knew about Killmonger or whatever the Roxonne corporation is getting up to, or any other people with ties to superpowers or advanced tech or magic or anything, and if they had a long term goal for them. I mean, you can debate whether or not Steve was wearing his Bucky Blinders in Civil War, but the exploitation, abuse, and mistreatment of super-powered people is clearly is problem, a problems that could get even worse, and he wasn't wrong about that. 

I also found it interesting that the FBI told Scott that Hank and Hope were in violation of the Accords due to, I suppose, making super powered equipment, especially stuff that Scott used in Civil War. That just raises further questions! 

Edited July 9, 2018 by tennisgurl

[VCRTracking]

I want to believe it was all HYDRA agents within SHIELD who were experimenting on Ava. Wolfgang Von Strucker did his nefarious scientific activities under the SHIELD banner including recruiting subjects for his experiments like the Maximoff twins before HYDRA came out of the shadows in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. They would have been able to any shady things secret or make it all seem on the up and up and benevolent to someone like Fury or Maria Hill. They also wouldn't have been "Hail Hydra" to each other publicly around Ava(just whispered it)!

We'll learn more about SHIELD's past in the upcoming Captain Marvel. Speaking of:

Edited July 9, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Raja]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, I saw Ant-Man and the Wasp today, and I thought it was a great, fun movie that was a nice palette cleanser after the devastation of Infinity War. It also made me think more about the treatment of people with powers or super tech, because some of the implications, especially post CW, definitely made me raise a few eyebrows...

Spoilers...

 

 

 

So Ghost AKA Ava was a child who got superpowers, then ended up in the care of SHIELD, who apparently experimented on her, trained her to be a super assassin from a young age, all the while saying they would help keep her from falling apart from her intangibility powers, and...they never did, and then SHIELD fell and she ended up having to find answers on her own with just her father figure Bill for help. So, this raises quite a few questions for me. First, using a metahuman child as an experiment and soldier is very villainous behavior from SHIELD, even by their morally grey standards. Or, another idea, that this was run by mostly HYDRA agents inside of SHIELD, but even then, someone who was non HYDRA in SHIELD must have known about Ava, was was alright with it. It really raises even more questions about the treatment of people with powers and abilities in the MCU, especially by the government. And this was years before Iron Man and the greater expansion of public superheroes! How long have people, even innocent children, with powers been used and abused by governments and organizations? How likely was it that the Accords, as run by a guy like Ross, would have ended up being like this, especially if they started "recruiting" powered kids, who we know exist in this world? What kind of presidents are there when it comes to the rights of enhanced humans? We already had that creepy scene in Jessica Jones where cops said that people with powers dont have the rights that non enhanced people have, and it sounds like that wasn't just bullshit, and was the actual lay of the land. The whole backstory of Ava seemed like a less brainwashed filled Winter Soldier backstory...except it was SHIELD, and not HYDRA. Allegedly. It really makes me wonder how much guys like Nick Fury or even Pierce knew about what was all going on. I even wonder if they knew about Killmonger or whatever the Roxonne corporation is getting up to, or any other people with ties to superpowers or advanced tech or magic or anything, and if they had a long term goal for them. I mean, you can debate whether or not Steve was wearing his Bucky Blinders in Civil War, but the exploitation, abuse, and mistreatment of super-powered people is clearly is problem, a problems that could get even worse, and he wasn't wrong about that. 

I also found it interesting that the FBI told Scott that Hank and Hope were in violation of the Accords due to, I suppose, making super powered equipment, especially stuff that Scott used in Civil War. That just raises further questions! 

The implications of SHIELD being bad has been there since the secret Hydra weapons captain America found in The Avengers and Agents cut out of the chain of command who took off to nuke New York while their ship commander said no. It got further play in some Agents of SHIELD plots were you could only conclude that those  embedded as Hydra inside of SHIELD were little different than those who were SHIELD with no known Hydra affiliation who did the same things before the emergence.  It was last played in their framework arc where Agent May was a high ranking Hydra agent and had no problem adjusting and coming back to "the real world" It sort of parallels how we treat the CIA in fiction. When Jack Ryan comes to Amazon and a few other places they are loyal Americans concerned with our laws but on most other productions since they work abroad , in theory, anything goes.

[Wynterwolf]

[Dee]

After ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp,’ Is Marvel’s Future Female?

Quote

With “Ant-Man and the Wasp,” audiences finally saw a Marvel movie co-headlined by a woman as Evangeline Lilly’s Hope Van Dyne (a.k.a. the Wasp) shared center stage with Paul Rudd’s Ant-Man. The superhero sequel opened with $161 million worldwide, $76 million of which came from North America.

The estrogen injection paid off. While that’s a slower start than recent Marvel titles such as “Avengers: Infinity War” and “Black Panther,” it’s a significant jump on the original film’s $57 million domestic debut. Given that it basically made back its $175 million price tag in the first three days, “Ant-Man and the Wasp” looks to be yet another win for the Disney-owned company.

“We’ve seen enough guys in Spandex to last a lifetime. It’s time to share the wealth,” Jeff Bock, an analyst with Exhibitor Relations, said. “Marvel is the hottest thing going. They can’t stay static, and they’re trying hard to diversify.”

Comic books and geek culture have often been male-dominated, but that’s changing. Expectations are high for “Captain Marvel,” a 2019 film that will feature Oscar-winner Brie Larson as the title character. In a bit of glass-ceiling shattering, “Captain Marvel” will be Marvel’s inaugural female-led standalone adventure.

Shortly after “Captain Marvel” bows in March, “Avengers 4” will close out the third chapter in the MCU. Until this year with the release of “Black Panther,” the series has stacked up one white leading man after the next. Looking forward, Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige has said Phase 4 (the films following “Avengers: Infinity War Part 2”) will be “distinctly different” than the first three chapters. In line with the shrouded secrecy that is the Marvel brand, it’s anyone’s guess what that ambiguous statement means.

Odds are, Marvel is going to follow suit in Phase 4 with an equal share of sequels and new storylines. That gives the studio a unique chance to push for greater gender and racial diversity when it comes to rounding out the next iterations of Earth’s mightiest heroes.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Dee

[Wynterwolf]

On 6/30/2018 at 8:38 AM, Wynterwolf said:

I also reject the 5 year time jump speculation (because I don't like that either) and I'm going with the 5 years older Cassie being another end credit scene to set up the 'next gen heroes'.

Alright, so I'm slowly getting comfortable with the 5 year time jump idea (possible set pics of Scott near Cassie's house with a bunch of trash piled up could to tie into the tv logo in the after credit scene and okay, I can see it... there has been a time jump for most of the movies and as much as the idea hurts, it makes storytelling sense.  I just needed time to adjust to it.)

Still not sure about the time travel, though (which, if the 5 year time jump is correct, does seem likely given SpiderMan: Far from Home)... because now I want to see Scott and a 5-years-older Cassie working as partners to get their loved ones back, because just like she said, I think she'll make a great superhero, and I wouldn't want them to loose that experience.  Plus, whatever bonding the original Avengers would have during that 5 years would be lost as well, unless everyone somehow remembers the original timeline (is there any comic precedent for that?).  

[anna0852]

I absolutely hate the idea of a time jump. We need to see the immediate aftermath of the dusting. We need to see Tony getting home, we need to see Cap having an absolute breakdown, heck we need to see what's going to happen with the throne of Wakanda. This is too big of a deal to pick up five years later. Not to mention getting that dusting undone with a five-year gap is going to cause some serious issues unless they are somehow completely turning back time to eliminate the time jump. Personally I think that the little girl playing Cassie now is awesome and I'm not all that anxious to jump her head to a teenager just yet. Let's save that for third Ant-Man movie.

Edited July 11, 2018 by anna0852

[festivus]

36 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I absolutely hate the idea of a time jump. We need to see the immediate aftermath of the dusting. We need to see Tony getting home, we need to see Cap having an absolute breakdown, heck we need to see what's going to happen with the throne of Wakanda. This is too big of a deal to pick up five years later.

So much agreement. I also don't like the idea because they basically keep these movies happening in our time. It would be like 2022 if they did a jump. Plus like you said I want to see the emotions. I will feel cheated if we don't get to see some of this. I need to see Tony and Nebula's trip home.

[Wynterwolf]

43 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

We need to see the immediate aftermath of the dusting. We need to see Tony getting home, we need to see Cap having an absolute breakdown, heck we need to see what's going to happen with the throne of Wakanda.

I don't really think we'll see much, if any of that directly, even if they do pick up the timeline sooner (the Scott pic could also indicate weeks, rather than years and 5 years-older Cassie could be for something else), but we'll see the aftermath.  We've basically already seen Cap's breakdown, kneeling on the ground with Bucky's ashes.  I think we'll see how the trip home for Tony went through what his and Nebula's relationship looks like when we see them again.  And I think it would be cool if the remaining Avengers set up in Wakanda, since what is left of the world is probably going to be pretty pissed at them, so that could be a cool way to see how they were affected.  

43 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Not to mention getting that dusting undone with a five-year gap is going to cause some serious issues unless they are somehow completely turning back time to eliminate the time jump.

Yeah, that's the thing I still don't like, because going back and changing things eliminates people's experiences.  Joy, pain, happiness, sadness... our experiences, our memories are an integral part of who we are (just ask Bucky what happens when those things are taken away). Taking those things away and rewriting them here, even if the intention is to 'fix' something, feels inherently wrong to me.  I'd definitely rather see them figure out how to breach the gap between where each group is, and figure out how to get the dusted back, and then move forward from there, rather than going back and making it not happen.  

Edited July 11, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[JessePinkman]

I'm torn on the time jump. I like a good time jump, I'm a sucker for resetting a universe while not erasing it's past. That said, if this does both of those things. Giving us a "What If?" scenario 5 years later and then undoes it I'll be pretty disappointed. But that seemingly the only way they could do it, right? I'm not sure many people will accept T'Challa, Bucky, Groot, Wanda, etc. just losing five years of their lives.

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

I'm torn on the time jump. I like a good time jump, I'm a sucker for resetting a universe while not erasing it's past. That said, if this does both of those things. Giving us a "What If?" scenario 5 years later and then undoes it I'll be pretty disappointed. But that seemingly the only way they could do it, right? I'm not sure many people will accept T'Challa, Bucky, Groot, Wanda, etc. just losing five years of their lives.

Plus, we have to get Peter back in time for his school trip!  ;-)

[tennisgurl]

I’m kinda over time jumps, I think TV has been using them so much lately they’ve started to get annoying. But, I think if they at least show SOME of the immediate aftermath of The Snap, and do something creative with a time jump, I could live with it. But, I’d kind of rather stick with time travel shenanigans instead of time jumps. 

[Raja]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I’m kinda over time jumps, I think TV has been using them so much lately they’ve started to get annoying. But, I think if they at least show SOME of the immediate aftermath of The Snap, and do something creative with a time jump, I could live with it. But, I’d kind of rather stick with time travel shenanigans instead of time jumps. 

I think that because the real world's major religions have a concept of a similar event happening and that the movies have so far proven unwilling to tackle such a subject in favor of happy face I think that  how a world would look post snapture  will be ignored beyond a very personal story with some of the Avengers. Long after Avengers 4 has finished its run in the theatres maybe one of the TV shows would touch on the aftermath,

[tennisgurl]

21 minutes ago, Raja said:

I think that because the real world's major religions have a concept of a similar event happening and that the movies have so far proven unwilling to tackle such a subject in favor of happy face I think that  how a world would look post snapture  will be ignored beyond a very personal story with some of the Avengers.

See, I dont know. We haven't seen much of the post Snappening world, but I actually have been impressed by how truly disturbing they've made it. Both the actual event, and peoples reactions to it, but also the brief glimpses we got of the world during and immediately after the Snap. Like when Maria Hill and Nick Fury were in the city, and you saw cars crashing, a helicopter going down, people screaming, and it really felt very intense, not just skipping to the known characters. And we got a bit more of that at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp, with the creepy Emergence Broadcast playing in a seemingly empty San Francisco. Even if we get a time jump, I cant imagine us not exploring the post-snap world, when we are already getting it now. It wont be The Leftovers or anything, but they seem pretty committed to this story, as dark as it gets. At least until things get somewhat sorted out anyway. 

[blueray]

7 hours ago, Raja said:

I think that because the real world's major religions have a concept of a similar event happening and that the movies have so far proven unwilling to tackle such a subject in favor of happy face I think that  how a world would look post snapture  will be ignored beyond a very personal story with some of the Avengers. Long after Avengers 4 has finished its run in the theatres maybe one of the TV shows would touch on the aftermath,

My guess is agents of shield will. As it is set to air season 6 during the following summer.

[Raja]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

See, I dont know. We haven't seen much of the post Snappening world, but I actually have been impressed by how truly disturbing they've made it. Both the actual event, and peoples reactions to it, but also the brief glimpses we got of the world during and immediately after the Snap. Like when Maria Hill and Nick Fury were in the city, and you saw cars crashing, a helicopter going down, people screaming, and it really felt very intense, not just skipping to the known characters. And we got a bit more of that at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp, with the creepy Emergence Broadcast playing in a seemingly empty San Francisco. Even if we get a time jump, I cant imagine us not exploring the post-snap world, when we are already getting it now. It wont be The Leftovers or anything, but they seem pretty committed to this story, as dark as it gets. At least until things get somewhat sorted out anyway. 

I have a different definition of post snapture reactions. While the pilot-less aircraft and cars are still crashing and people are crying out to their friends as they dust is still the actual event to me. A post snapture world that I want to see somewhere be it Agents of SHIELD, The Defenders or Cloak and Dagger is after the surviving Avengers and Wakandan soldiers tell the story of an alien environmental terrorist killing all those people.

I will admit that Secretary of State Ross being as close to being the President as Rocket has of losing many Guardian of the Galaxy friends to the snapture is an intriguing thought.  Besides Agents of SHIELD I don't think we have seen President Ellis since Iron Man 3 and have wondered if the MCU had a Presidential election like the real world in the time since his kast appearance.

[BetterButter]

'Black Widow' Movie Finds Director in Cate Shortland

[Spartan Girl]

11 hours ago, Raja said:

I have a different definition of post snapture reactions. While the pilot-less aircraft and cars are still crashing and people are crying out to their friends as they dust is still the actual event to me. A post snapture world that I want to see somewhere be it Agents of SHIELD, The Defenders or Cloak and Dagger is after the surviving Avengers and Wakandan soldiers tell the story of an alien environmental terrorist killing all those people.

I will admit that Secretary of State Ross being as close to being the President as Rocket has of losing many Guardian of the Galaxy friends to the snapture is an intriguing thought.  Besides Agents of SHIELD I don't think we have seen President Ellis since Iron Man 3 and have wondered if the MCU had a Presidential election like the real world in the time since his kast appearance.

The Avengers don't need more government fuckery on top of Thanos.

I'd prefer to see him post-Snapture, broken and groveling in front of the Avengers, admitting that he should have listened to them about Thanos, that he never should have meddled with the accords, and offering them all full pardons and stop harassing Bruce if they find some way to stop Thanos and undo everything.

Then Bruce steps forward, says "As long as you'll pardon everything" and nails him with a right hook.