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Since the single episode threads do not get much traffic and people on the Dateline thread are interested in an "all episodes thread" for 48 Hours, they suggested I start one! So here it is! A place to discuss all episodes of the CBS true crime show. 

Edited by Pallas · Reason: Changed title
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I can't believe that father standing by his son who murdered his wife and other son and tried to kill him! Looks like he dedicated the rest of his life to advocating for the son to escape his death sentence. And he still thinks the kid "belongs in heaven with the rest of them". Um, maybe you should ask the one's who got murdered if they agree. Oh wait, you can't, they were murdered.  

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43 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Since the single episode threads do not get much traffic and people on the Dateline thread are interested in an "all episodes thread" for 48 Hours, they suggested I start one! So here it is! A place to discuss all episodes of the CBS true crime show. 

Thank you for adding this!

39 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I can't believe that father standing by his son who murdered his wife and other son and tried to kill him! Looks like he dedicated the rest of his life to advocating for the son to escape his death sentence. And he still thinks the kid "belongs in heaven with the rest of them". Um, maybe you should ask the one's who got murdered if they agree. Oh wait, you can't, they were murdered.  

I felt bad for the father, but on the other hand, the son had tried multiple times to get someone to kill the family.  He is still somewhat in denial it seems.

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My spouse and I watched that same 48 hours. We discussed how hard it has to be for that father to lose his wife and son at the hands of his other son.  How hard it must be to think of your only remaining son being executed. 

The question of whether the son is going to heaven after he dies has nothing to do with whether or not he’s executed. Religious ( or even victim) forgiveness is a totally separate application from our nations laws. The legal punishment accorded for murder for hire in this case is/was death.   The truth is the father didn’t want to be all alone here on earth, nor could he deal with the idea of killing his remaining son.   I don't  what I could or would do if I was him. However, he’s just sentenced himself to prison visits to his son for the rest of his own life.  Meaning every week or Month, he makes the trek to/from the prison, deals with all the bureaucracy and limitations of being a visitor to a maximum security level prison.  Will he travel or become a snowbird in his retirement years - probably not. The fathers own future life will be affected forever.  

Edited by mythoughtis
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What was surprising to me was that the police told the parents two years earlier that the son had plotted to kill them and yet the dad was still in denial about it when the actual murders happened.  But he’s his dad so I’m not surprised that he still supports his son despite what he did.  I’m personally against the death penalty so I’m not too outraged by the outcome, I do believe he belongs in jail for life.   As far as the dad wanting the son in heaven with the rest of them, I was raised Catholic and was taught that the only unforgivable sin was suicide, so under that teaching the murderer just needs to ask for forgiveness.

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Great thread title! (I haven't seen this episode yet, so not much else to add. I'll be back later no doubt.) 

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3 hours ago, partofme said:

What was surprising to me was that the police told the parents two years earlier that the son had plotted to kill them and yet the dad was still in denial about it when the actual murders happened.

I totally forgot about that part! The son had plotted to kill them multiple times over many years, for the money. He was practically asking every friend he had to do it. And it did not seem like the parents were stingy with their money or anything. I'm sure they were paying for that pricey education.  

I don't care if the police came to me and said my 92 year old grandma was plotting to kill me, I would fucking take it seriously! 

 

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Great thread title! (I haven't seen this episode yet, so not much else to add. I'll be back later no doubt.) 

Ah thanks, I did my best! 

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Gah - wouldn't you know that People Magazine Investigates covered this same case last night!  

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I’m watching the anesthesiologist who apparently gassed his wife via a complex carbon monoxide setup in their home. This ass. I wanted to slap him simply because, when Peter Van Sant asked him if he killed his wife, he SMILED as he said No. He was pretty up front about not liking his wife, but wouldn’t you still feel bad and be serious or somber if the mother of your boys died tragically? HATE. 

Edited by Tabbygirl521
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1 hour ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I’m watching the anesthesiologist who apparently gassed his wife via a complex carbon monoxide setup in their home. This ass. I wanted to slap him simply because, when Peter Van Sant asked him if he killed his wife, he SMILED as he said No. He was pretty up front about not liking his wife, but wouldn’t you still feel bad and be serious or somber if the mother of your boys died tragically? HATE. 

That episode seems to rerun constantly on TV.

But yeah. I thought he was kind of odd, too. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 2:55 PM, mythoughtis said:

My spouse and I watched that same 48 hours. We discussed how hard it has to be for that father to lose his wife and son at the hands of his other son.  How hard it must be to think of your only remaining son being executed. 

The question of whether the son is going to heaven after he dies has nothing to do with whether or not he’s executed. Religious ( or even victim) forgiveness is a totally separate application from our nations laws. The legal punishment accorded for murder for hire in this case is/was death.   The truth is the father didn’t want to be all alone here on earth, nor could he deal with the idea of killing his remaining son.   I don't  what I could or would do if I was him. However, he’s just sentenced himself to prison visits to his son for the rest of his own life.  Meaning every week or Month, he makes the trek to/from the prison, deals with all the bureaucracy and limitations of being a visitor to a maximum security level prison.  Will he travel or become a snowbird in his retirement years - probably not. The fathers own future life will be affected forever.  

Would it be more merciful to be executed?  The thought of spending the next 50 years in a cage seems much worse than execution.  Once his father is gone, will there be anyone on earth who cares about the condemned?  The killer could live another 60 years; his father won’t.  The father has acted as a loving father; the killer will be forever confined, and all alone after the father ages out of visits or dies.  That seems the bleakest of all.  

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I'm always relieved when they find these long-term kidnapped children, but at the same time, I cringe. Because I know there's going to be a recap of other infamous cases and I wonder if it bothers the victims to rehash their ordeals yet again.

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Agreed. I admire and appreciate people like Smart and Dugard opening up about their experiences, both as a means of helping themselves heal as well as helping other victims and giving hope and comfort to other families. Smart's words of advice and support to Jayme are very powerful and moving, and I hope Jayme can take them to heart going forward. But yeah, I certainly don't blame the victims who want to just move on and not make any further fuss, too. I'd forgotten about that Hornbeck case. I'm glad to hear that he seems to be doing fairly well all this time later. 

Hearing the stories and seeing the photos of children that have yet to be found is just heartbreaking. I hope those cases can get solved as soon as possible, too. 

On a happier note, I love the sheer excitement and emotion from the officer who got to speak publicly about Jayme being found. It's not often officers get to have those kinds of rewarding moments in this line of work, so I'm glad that he and the rest of the police, as well as the town, have something to celebrate at long last. 

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On 1/9/2019 at 3:31 PM, nora1992 said:

Would it be more merciful to be executed?  The thought of spending the next 50 years in a cage seems much worse than execution.  Once his father is gone, will there be anyone on earth who cares about the condemned?  The killer could live another 60 years; his father won’t.  The father has acted as a loving father; the killer will be forever confined, and all alone after the father ages out of visits or dies.  That seems the bleakest of all.  

BBM.  I don't care.  He deserves it.  He tried multiple times to kill his family until he finally succeeded.  He then repeatedly lied to the dad about his level of involvement before running away all while having his father's support.  So I don't have any compassion for him.  He can sit and rot.  

 

Re: Jayme Closs

I'm very glad she escaped and is alive.  I can only pray that she gets whatever help she may need to move on and have a productive life.  However, I really wish 48 Hours would have waited a few weeks or months.  The story is very interesting and they have few details right now to report.  I have so many questions.  I guess we'll have 800 "new" versions (hour episodes where they've added 5 minutes of new info) of this case as it winds its way through the justice system.

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Yes, I wish 48 Hours would have waited before doing this episode.  They did not really have enough new info for a full hour show.  

I found it interesting how proud the sheriff was about the case.  I understand him being so happy.  But he really didn't rescue or find her.  She did that all on her own.  His constant chatting about how he solved the case kind of annoyed me.  

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3 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Yes, I wish 48 Hours would have waited before doing this episode.  They did not really have enough new info for a full hour show.  

I found it interesting how proud the sheriff was about the case.  I understand him being so happy.  But he really didn't rescue or find her.  She did that all on her own.  His constant chatting about how he solved the case kind of annoyed me.  

Actually, he also said Jayme was the hero -- that she was the one who had the courage to escape, find help, etc.  While he (and his department) did not literally find her....they did spend months, never ceasing their search for her and any evidence.  They kept the case in the public eye.

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11 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

BBM.  I don't care.  He deserves it.  He tried multiple times to kill his family until he finally succeeded.  He then repeatedly lied to the dad about his level of involvement before running away all while having his father's support.  So I don't have any compassion for him.  He can sit and rot.  

To clarify: I think the commutation of the sentence is entirely for the father’s benefit.  He doesn’t have to bury another son, and the son will have a harsher-yet-longer life.  Rot he will, and he does deserve to.  He wasn’t spared because he deserved it, but because dad couldn’t cope with another burial.  

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I'm sort of torn on the Jayme Closs episode.  When a child is abducted and miraculously turns up alive, the community has become so invested that they often feel "owed" pictures and updates of the victim.  I was uncomfortable with the release of the picture of Jayme with her aunt and dog.  I hope that's the last we will see of her so she can focus on healing.  Obviously, the trial will require her to testify, but I hope she's protected as a minor and efforts made to protect her - hopefully no picture drawn of her on the stand, etc.

I still remember with disgust watching Elizabeth Smart riding her horse in slo-mo as her long, blonde hair floated in the wind.  I've long judged how the Smart parents handled Elizabeth's recovery, and subjecting her to such exploitative scenes when she'd already been the victim of an obsessed man was a parental fail, IMO, as well as immediately dismissing the need for counseling, and stating Elizabeth was looking forward to dating.  Luckily, Elizabeth was an extremely strong young woman who's grown to be an amazing advocate.  I especially respect her stance on not idolizing the hymen, which I can't help but feel is aimed at her religion.

I hope Jayme will be protected from this point on in the way that Jaycee Dugard protected her daughters.  She revealed very little about them, and I don't recall ever seeing a picture of them.

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20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I'd forgotten about that Hornbeck case. I'm glad to hear that he seems to be doing fairly well all this time later. 

After the tragic way Steven Stayner's life turned out, I'm so grateful for the fact that the rest of these long-term kidnapping survivors have gone on to happy and productive lives. I hope Jayme can do the same, especially with the added trauma of her parents having been murdered as well.

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Heh, interesting you mention the Stayner case-I was just talking about that one with my mom earlier today. Talk about a family that was swamped with tragedy and horror. 

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1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Heh, interesting you mention the Stayner case-I was just talking about that one with my mom earlier today. Talk about a family that was swamped with tragedy and horror. 

I'm sure Cary's sociopathic tendencies were already intact at age eleven, but I can't help but wonder if the trauma of his brother Steven's abduction helped warp him.

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Oh, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.. Any warning signs he might've given off or help he may have needed or anything of that sort would've been missed because everyone was, understandably, so focused on finding Steven. And you're pretty spot on with him showing tendencies early on, too-when I was reading up on the case earlier he claimed that the violent urges had been within him at least since the age of seven, before his brother went missing. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 3:55 PM, mythoughtis said:

e truth is the father didn’t want to be all alone here on earth, nor could he deal with the idea of killing his remaining son.   I don't  what I could or would do if I was him.

Hes aid he had remarried. But I  think the killer should be on a gurney in the execution chamber.

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I also think it was too soon to do an episode on Jayme Closs. It feels like they just wanted to be the first ones to get it on air, even though waiting and getting more of the story would have been better and perhaps more respectful.

It always bugs me when they spend so much times showing the churches with their signs and talking about prayers and God bringing Jayme home and such. God did not bring Jayme home anymore than God got her kidnapped.  

Edited by TVbitch
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Plus, there was so much more information released today in the criminal complaint so is 48 hours going to do another show?

I won't give all the details but for those wondering how he targeted her, in his confession he said he saw her getting on (or off?) a school bus on his way to work one day and knew she was going to be the one he took.  He went to her house twice before to take her but something made the circumstances not right.  He didn't even know her name until he got her home.

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19 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Plus, there was so much more information released today in the criminal complaint so is 48 hours going to do another show?

I won't give all the details but for those wondering how he targeted her, in his confession he said he saw her getting on (or off?) a school bus on his way to work one day and knew she was going to be the one he took.  He went to her house twice before to take her but something made the circumstances not right.  He didn't even know her name until he got her home.

Considering she left the house daily to attend school, I wonder why in the world he chose to take her by breaking into the house and murdering her parents.  I'm guessing his plan was to eliminate them in the attempt to isolate her.

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24 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Considering she left the house daily to attend school, I wonder why in the world he chose to take her by breaking into the house and murdering her parents.  I'm guessing his plan was to eliminate them in the attempt to isolate her.

Witnesses, I think. It's why he killed her parents. Kidnapping her from her house cornered her.  If he tried to do it outside, there would be light.  She could scream and run.  Plus, even though it's a rural area, I think the road she lived on was somewhat busy.  He was taking it to get to work.  I'm sure others would as well.  And take it to leave work.  Her bus times would likely align with those popular times.

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4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

It always bugs me when they spend so much times showing the churches with their signs and talking about prayers and God bringing Jayme home and such. God did not bring Jayme home anymore than God got her kidnapped.  

This. Thank you. 

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I would be more comfortable with the God references....if they thanked God for giving her the strength/courage to endure her captivity and then escape.

Edited by sinycalone
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There's also the fact that, as the episode clearly showed, there are many families whose children are still missing to this day. And then there's those children who were murdered by their abductors. Many of those families and their communities no doubt prayed and looked to God for a happy outcome, too. Why didn't it work for them? 

Mind, I totally understand and sympathize with people wanting to find comfort and support in whatever helps them through tough times like this, of course. And if somebody's faith brings them that comfort and support, great. Whatever helps. But yeah. Those kinds of public references and comments can definitely come off a bit awkward sometimes. 

Edited by Annber03
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For some reason, I never before realized how incredibly strong and resilient kids are. But this umpteenth story of a child surviving such a terrible ordeal really shows it.

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I felt bad for the father, but on the other hand, the son had tried multiple times to get someone to kill the family.  He is still somewhat in denial it seems.

I felt awful for the father.  I'm sure he feels that with the rest of the family dead, he can't bear to lose the last remaining connection he has, even when that person is the one responsible for killing everyone else.  I also think that survivor's guilt plays a huge role, perhaps with the father imagining that he was somehow to blame for all this because of something he did or did not do for his son. 

A few weeks ago, I had watched the Find Jodi episode.  I think the missing person ones are always the worst, because while Jodi is likely dead and everyone knows it, there is always that uncertainty.  I also kind of felt like it was an episode where they might really only have had about 20 minutes of story, but they heavily padded it with the second possible suspect who really was just a red herring. 

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12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

A few weeks ago, I had watched the Find Jodi episode.  I think the missing person ones are always the worst, because while Jodi is likely dead and everyone knows it, there is always that uncertainty.  I also kind of felt like it was an episode where they might really only have had about 20 minutes of story, but they heavily padded it with the second possible suspect who really was just a red herring. 

Agreed on missing persons cases. I can't imagine what Jodi's family's been going through all this time. 20 plus years of not being able to move on, and there's still absolutely no answers or even hints of where Jodi might be. 

And yeah, this case didn't really have any new information, but it was still interesting to me because I've heard about this Vansice guy who was a friend of hers, but I'd never seen any of the interviews with him that took place right after her disappearance. Those were rather revealing, I thought-he kept talking about his relationship with Jodi in relation to what it meant to him, he didn't really talk much about what made her such a special person, and the whole thing with him talking about giving her a ton of shirts that were in her apartment rubbed me really weird. Many women do wear shirts from men, yes...but usually they borrow them from a family member or their boyfriend/husband, and if they do borrow one from a guy friend, it's usually just that-the one, maybe two at most. Yet here's this guy going overboard and almost making it seem like these were mementos of a relationship or something. Add in the fact that her friends were uncomfortable with the amount of attention he kept giving her and whatnot and it made the whole thing even weirder. 

Also, when they talked about him naming his boat after her, and showed him out on what looks to be Clear Lake, it had me wondering if maybe that's where her body is. Of course, Clear Lake is a big lake, so it's not like they could drain the entire thing, and I don't know how deeply they looked there back in the day, but, yeah, I could see that being where her body was dumped. 

I also got creeped out when they talked about that other suspect who later went on to rape women up in Minneapolis and showed the neighborhood he lived in. I and my family have driven past that neighborhood numerous times over the years (mind, this isn't a very big town, so it's not like you have a lot of variety in places to go here, but still). 

And I was a bit amused at the mention at the end of calling the police with any information. You know, the same police department that didn't do more with Jodi's car in regards to any potential evidence and has had four people taking it over in the 22 years since she's disappeared. Plus, one of the big rumors here in town is that somebody in the police department may know more about her disappearance than they're saying, or is covering up for whomever is guilty, or whatever, and then there's this:

Quote

In early June 2008, photocopies of the 84 pages of Huisentruit's personal journal were anonymously mailed to a local newspaper. The Mason City Globe Gazette received the material in a large envelope with no return address and a June 4 postmark from Waterloo, Iowa. The original journal has been in the possession of law enforcement since the investigation of Huisentruit's disappearance began. Within days, Mason City Police reported that the sender had come forward and then identified her as the wife of the former Mason City Police Chief. Although noting that the former chief had taken a copy of the journal home when he left office, the police gave no motive for his wife sending the copy to the newspaper

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodi_Huisentruit

Anywho, so yeah. It's a really strange, sad mystery all the way around, and I think many here have resigned themselves to the fact that we may never know what happened to her or who did it. But other cold cases have been resolved decades later, so who knows. Never hurts to remain hopeful. 

Edited by Annber03
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Good on those two cops and DNA technology is amazing.... am I the only one who has never listened to a podcast?! rocking-chair1-smiley.gif

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I wonder how many cold cases will be solved by genetic databases?  That is a fascinating byproduct.  Who knew 5 years ago you could identify a criminal through the DNA an unknown 2nd cousin once removed?  

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I kinda found the podcaster’s podcaster voice annoying. He sounded like he came from the Anderson cooper/Lisa ling school of story telling (and I love both Anderson and Lisa). His tone was very affected. It sounded like he was imitating what he thought a podcaster was supposed to sound like.

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Re:Kevin Cooper

Not sure if he’s innocent or not but I think the case does need a new independent look at it.  I agree w/the grandmother that it does seem like more than one person had to have done it. 

But, damn, 48 Hours, if you don’t have a lot of info, don’t be two hours. The first half of the second hour was stuff we just saw!  

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Tdoc72-100% agree.  Dateline has been wasting 53 minutes of every 2nd hour in their extended “investigations”.  And now 20/20 and 48 Hours have jumped on that band wagon.   I guess the producers of these longer episodes assume viewers tuning in to the second hour didn’t watch a single second of the first hour, and need to be caught up before they tell us the most insignificant new details in the last five minutes.  

As for Kevin Cooper, he wasn’t an angel before he was arrested for the massacre.  But based on what was shown, there is certainly enough doubt to reopen his case.  And anyone in the DA’s office or the police dpt who doesn’t think so is more obtuse than the crooked warden in “Shawshank Redemption”. 

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And anyone in the DA’s office or the police dpt who doesn’t think so is more obtuse than the crooked warden in “Shawshank Redemption”. 

I get the need for finality, particularly for the families that went through a wrenching and horrible event.  I also understand the legitimate fear about setting a precedent, the floodgates being opened and having to waste resources on cases that really do not require another look.  Having said that,the more the DA insisted there was nothing there, it made me think he was terrified that something would be found.   

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13 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Not sure if he’s innocent or not but I think the case does need a new independent look at it.  

But at the same time, I feel badly for Josh Ryen.  His parents, his sister, and his friend were killed, and I think his belief that it's Kevin Cooper is genuine.  I think that deputy altered Josh's memory, and the memory that it's Kevin Cooper is what's in Josh's memory forever.

Obviously, I don't think an innocent man should be in prison, but I'm also bothered by no one being imprisoned for this crime.  When cases like this are re-investigated, it's always about freeing the wrongly imprisoned person.  I feel that Josh's family has gotten lost in the shuffle, and this has become a pissing match.

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An interesting case.  But please, please, please don’t measure the validity of a case according to whether or not a Kardashian has tweeted about it!!!!!  So much filler - I agree with all who said it should have been shorter.

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So a few things about this past week's case.   Yep, Reagan era America where the Black guy ALWAYS did it, and the scary thing where a family was slaughtered and the real people who did it were/are still walking the streets.                                  

Seems that there was really crappy police work all the ways around.   The first thing that came to me about the murders were they were done by Manson-like psychos (probably unlikely) or it had to do with either the adult victims' medical practice (I think they were both chiropractors) or even more likely, the horse farm.     WHO would benefit from having these people dead?   And you'd really think that whoever ran the police force would have wanted to take some really bad killers off the streets rather than picking the low hanging fruit of an escaped burglar and blaming a horrific crime on the wrong dude.  But hey!  Black guy in a super-conservative part of California - he did it - lock 'em up and fire up the gas chamber.  All while the real killers are still on the loose.  

I wanted to rub that new DA's (or whatever he was) in something a dog left behind when he made the comment about the Circuit Court that wanted the arrested guy's case looked into (sorry, I don't remember the names of everyone involved) being "liberal".  I guess you're a liberal if you don't want to see the wrong guy railroaded into the gas chamber when there are so many holes in the case that it could pass for Swiss cheese!  

At least kudos for 48 Hours for bringing up this case on national tv.   I'm a believer in the death penalty in cases where there is no room for doubt but I hate seeing it as an option when there is actually some reasonable doubt that the suspect committed the crime.   I also wonder if that hapless guy spent many a day wishing that he hadn't escaped from prison as then he wouldn't have been blamed for a horrible crime he didn't commit.  

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15 hours ago, nora1992 said:

I agree with all who said it should have been shorter.

I think that originally, the first hour was the episode that 48 Hours first did on the case.  The second hour seemed to be an episode that updated things, but I think it originally aired years after the first episode.  Hence, the amount of repeat information.----for those who saw the second episode when it originally aired, but not the first.  I think the episodes were not originally created with the thought in mind that they would air back-to back.  It looked like the "20 years ago" intro was added to the original case episode, and some updated footage was added to the update (second episode).

Edited by Ohmo

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If the DNA testing is expected to be done in a few months (and what's the delay, I wonder?), per the printed info given at the end of the second episode, why not wait till it's been done and then air all this?  So that it comes with a resolution?  I felt after watching that there's two hours of my life I'll never get back.  Probably not the best choice of words given all the years that Kevin Cooper won't get back, but still . . .  Wasn't there any other case that could've filled this gap until the full story could finally be told?

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I like how they said that the dna on the shirt is compromised every time it’s handled and so what do they do? They take the shirt out to show it around! 

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Is anyone watching Standoff at Trader Joe's?

Edited by druzy
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I remember that incident, because I was going to watch some kind of TV special on CNN that night (I think it was one of their documentary things or something), only to turn on the channel and have the breaking news about the standoff. I remember the standoff taking quite a number of hours-I can imagine it felt like an eternity for the poor people involved in it. 

I missed the "48 Hours" episode about it last night, though. Will have to keep an eye out to see if it repeats at some point. 

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't remember this incident which is a rather sad admission (stuff is just way to common)

Too true :/. 

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It was great to see the incident from the perspectives of the hostages, rather than from law enforcement.

MaryLinda should be giving seminars to the LAPD - especially their SWAT & hostage negotiators, just to give a calm and reasoned viewpoint from the hostages' side of a volatile situation.  I think she may well have saved some lives that day.

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