Fosse/Verdon - General Discussion

[lucindabelle]

17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Drinks are pretty ridiculous these days too. These were the drink prices when I saw the national tour of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory a few weeks ago. And that’s on top of the ridiculous ticket prices! 

these prices are fine. $12 for a glass of wine is standard all over New York City. 

[Quilt Fairy]

In the scene where Gwen tells Bob that she hurt her throat by swallowing confetti (not an on-the-job hazard you encounter every day!), Bob starts off by saying something like "The performance report says you're not hitting the high notes."  Do Broadway shows really have performance reports?  It's something I never knew about.

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Do Broadway shows really have performance reports?  It's something I never knew about.

Yes, it's a stage manager's job to complete a report on each performance -- starting and ending times for each act are the most obvious (and objective) part, but other matters like audience reaction and performance issues are mentioned too. This recap talks about it (scroll down to the bullet points).

[PradaKitty]

I always have considered Velma the lead of Chicago and Roxie a “featured” part. 

[Suzn]

40 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

I always have considered Velma the lead of Chicago and Roxie a “featured” part. 

I have only the movie to go by (except for various clips), but now that you mention it, I agree!

[TimWil]

Roxie’s the lead character, in my opinion. The plot revolves around her, her crime, her subsequent trial and its eventual resolution. Yes, Velma is more or less a co-lead in terms of stage time and musical numbers but the show really is from Roxie’s point of view.

Edited May 24, 2019 by TimWil

[ProudMary]

16 hours ago, alexvillage said:

From the previews they are going to cover All That Jazz in the finale and I wonder how far they will go in Bob's life, and if the episode will be a longer one. All That Jazz alone, being so autobiographical, has a lot of material - but I am biased, I want a lot of it.

Yes, the episode is supersized.  TV listings show it as airing from 10:00 p.m. to 11:22 p.m. (Eastern.)

[ichbin]

On 5/22/2019 at 3:50 PM, teddysmom said:

Except you can't take your eyes off Liza.  She is so mesmerizing to watch perform. 

She really was amazing in her prime.  I went to see her in concert years ago only because some friends wanted to go.  I walked out of there a super fan.  

Was there the suggestion that Bob was not Nicole's biological father in the Nowadys episode?

[alexvillage]

6 hours ago, ichbin said:

Was there the suggestion that Bob was not Nicole's biological father in the Nowadys episode?

I don't see any but it would be preposterous since, according to biographies and people who knew him, she was like a little Bob.

[Rinaldo]

7 hours ago, ichbin said:

Was there the suggestion that Bob was not Nicole's biological father in the Nowadys episode?

Bob's questioning of that possibility was clearly presented as one more example of his self-hatred and insecurity (particularly after his sperm issues); we could see him abandoning that idea immediately upon her birth, when everyone remarked how much Nicole resembled him.

[Tosia]

On 5/23/2019 at 6:00 AM, Rinaldo said:

For the most part, even the most experienced musical theater stars have a vocal coach or teacher whom they continue to work with regularly. It's part of maintaining quality, and healthy vocal production so that they can maintain their standard; and becomes all the more urgent when absorbing the demands of a new role. (Just as even the most experienced dancers continue to take class regularly.)

Also to get the closest tones, inflections, tenor, and vocal style of whoever they're playing. Verbal tics too. And taking care of their vocal cords.  Very complex.  

I thought MW was incredible in voicing the hoarseness (?) Of Gwen Verdon ---and she sounded older in the last episode.

Brava! 

I watched All That Jazz with Roy Schneider almost continuously back in the 80's (?) when it came out on HBO---because it was on continously. 

Seriously. All That Jazz All The Time.

Loved it.  Going to buy it online now. 

[cpcathy]

I’m considering reading Fosse now, but between the show and the book, that would be a lot of Fosse! 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Tosia said:

Also to get the closest tones, inflections, tenor, and vocal style of whoever they're playing. Verbal tics too. And taking care of their vocal cords.  Very complex.  

There's a great series on YouTube called Technique Critique that looks at different things in movies and there's one linguist who looks at actors' accents in movies. He does one video specifically on actors playing real people and how they captured that. He does Michelle Williams playing Marilyn Monroe but I really hope he does her Gwen Verdon. I think her Gwen is more intentionally like Gwen where, as the guys says, her Marilyn was intentionally not exactly the same.

[MJS]

On 5/21/2019 at 11:19 PM, DakotaLavender said:

Why am I all confused by the final scene in tonight's episode? Did Gwen Verdon have a second child with Bob Fosse? Did they adopt a second child? Was that scene of her with a baby and her friend with a baby all in Gwen's imagination? 

Gwen and Bob get married and try to have kids

It didn't work

The doctor said Bob's sperm were slow swimmers

Gwen tried medical interventions that didn't work

Set up an adoption

Got pregnant unexpectedly with Nicole

[Must have backed out of the adoption]

Gwen and Joan Simon, holding Nicole Fosse and Nancy Simon as newborns, in final scene

[msrachelj]

i'm confused by the scene where gwen is singing the song at the piano and bob wants her to do it as duet. she insists she wants to sing it alone , has an argument with him, holds up a dime and threatens to have him terminated. next scene, she is doing a duet. how did that come about?

[MJS]

Simply, Bob won.

Even a compromise is a win after her ultimatum. The details aren’t that important- just that for all the truth of how she carried and helped him, how at the beginning no one really knew him, Bob is now the bigger name. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by MJS

[alexvillage]

4 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I’m considering reading Fosse now, but between the show and the book, that would be a lot of Fosse! 

I do recommend the book. I didn't know much about Bob Fosse's life, I didn't know anything about Gwen Verdon. I finished the book and am watching the episodes again and it makes so much more sense. There is a lot that cannot be covered in the series, the book is 600 pages, plus notes. But it is easy to read and fascinating - even though I am pretty sure Bob Fosse was a total asshole. I also loved to know how things work behind the scenes, before a musical on stage, during previews and the process of filming.

[scrb]

Find my attention drifting.

Yeah Fosse was a lousy guy, did lousy things and Verdon enabled it all.

This could have been wrapped up in 6 episodes but I guess they had to fill 8.

[SunnyBeBe]

I just tuned in to this last night.  I'm thinking about catching up OnDemand.  I thought it was fascinating, but, still difficult to watch.  I actually saw the movie All That Jazz when it played in theaters many years ago.  I was shocked to see how Fosse was.  OMG....not sure if I can take the entire series.  Should I try? lol

[cpcathy]

I also saw ATJ in the theater, I was like, eight? My mother took me to see everything and I thank her for it.

[rur]

Michael Jackson acknowledged how much he was influenced by Bob Fosse, and if you haven't gone down the Bob Fosse/youtube rabbit hole yet, here's a little something that shows Fosse's influence on Jackson. Fosse is dancing the role of the snake in The Little Prince, but it's been edited to fit with "Billie Jean". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUlEBhGgEe0

Apologies if this has already been posted and I missed it. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by rur

[Quilt Fairy]

I got the book from the library the other day and damn, it is a big book!  But I find it easy to skim over the parts that don't interest me, so I'm making progress.  The book goes in straight chronological order, none of the skipping about that the show does.  I find that the book helps me understand and appreciate the show more.  The time jumps that were so confusing in the first episode now make sense to me as a good editing choice for the medium. 

One thing that has surprised me is how many Broadway shows where Fosse and Verdon were uncredited choreographers, including How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying.  It seems like they were part of a small clique of Broadway insiders - writers, producers, directors - who all pitched in to help others when needed. 

The biographer is pretty forgiving of Fosse's sexual exploits, portraying him more as needy and insecure than a sexual predator.  And so far, Bob hasn't held a rejection against anyone, although someone like a girl in the chorus might think she had no choice. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Quilt Fairy

[Jordan Baker]

7 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I just tuned in to this last night.  I'm thinking about catching up OnDemand.  I thought it was fascinating, but, still difficult to watch.  I actually saw the movie All That Jazz when it played in theaters many years ago.  I was shocked to see how Fosse was.  OMG....not sure if I can take the entire series.  Should I try? lol

Yes!

I am really enjoying the show and can't believe we have only one more episode. There are some difficult moments, but I think the beauty of the series far outweighs those moments. The acting is superb, and I'm a total sucker for behind-the-scenes Broadway stuff. I say--Go for it.

[raven]

8 hours ago, rur said:

Fosse is dancing the role of the snake in The Little Prince, but it's been edited to fit with "Billie Jean". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUlEBhGgEe0

Apologies if this has already been posted and I missed it. 

That was amazing, thanks for posting it.   Fosse was 47 when he did that!

[mightysparrow]

I couldn't watch the 'Billie Jean' version for too long.  The original is sooooooo much better, with Bob Fosse's snake trying to persuade that cute little Prince to let Snake kill him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/24/2019 at 8:14 AM, lucindabelle said:

these prices are fine. $12 for a glass of wine is standard all over New York City. 

I guess it's a good thing I'm not a wine drinker!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S1.E7 clips

Expecting

Reviews are in

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside S1: looking the part

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

S1.E8: Providence

Quote

Gwen looks ahead to an uncertain future, as Bob tells the story of his life on film.

Promo:

Original air date: 5/28/19

[rur]

16 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I couldn't watch the 'Billie Jean' version for too long.  The original is sooooooo much better, with Bob Fosse's snake trying to persuade that cute little Prince to let Snake kill him.

Oh, undoubtedly. But if others, like me, had never really thought about the Fosse/Jackson connection before, the "Billie Jean" version definitely shows how Fosse inspired Jackson, including some moonwalk-like moves near the end. 

[kieyra]

(Viewed out of context, by someone like me with no musical-film frame of reference and no memory of the Billie Jean video ... that scene with the guy and the kid dancing in the desert is creepy as heck.)

[elle]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:36 AM, Rinaldo said:

Yes, it's a stage manager's job to complete a report on each performance -- starting and ending times for each act are the most obvious (and objective) part, but other matters like audience reaction and performance issues are mentioned too. This recap talks about it (scroll down to the bullet points).

The very last bullet point gives a link to the Clive Barnes NY Post review or re-review with Liza.  It is short but I thought it was interesting that he makes a point of saying the long line for booking is . Interestingly, the line is booking for Miss Verdon—all the performances Miss Minnelli is scheduled to give are already sold out.   Think Bob would have mentioned that to reassure Gwen.  I also like his analogy about comparing Gwen/Liz is like comparing red/white wine.  There is more but I don't want to take the meat out of the review.*

Does anyone know what routines or dance steps where added or changed for Liza?  I wonder if Bob ever appreciated that in adjusting the "Mary Sunshine" routine for Gwen so that Roxie sits on Billy's lap like a hand puppet rather than being danced around as his marionette, if this show is to be believed, actually improves the routine.  It makes Roxie/Billy the calm center of the media frenzy storm swirling about them.  I would have loved to hear Jerry Orbach's stories about that show. 

Also, was Velma's role written with Chita Rivera in mind?  The character seems to be very much a minor character in the movies made prior to the musical.

I am curious about what the Michelle Williams was going for with the look on her face during the "All that Jazz" rehearsal.  We see Bob once again reaching out to Gwen for her approval but we never get to hear what her thoughts were for the direction of the show.   

Someone commented that Gwen was trying for "cute" as way to play younger.  We never saw that was what she thought of Roxie.  Gwen just seems to have a "cute" way of being.  You can see it in the Lola character but then in a flash she can switch on sultry.  I really wish there had been more of what Gwen thought of the show other than "Bob don't take this away from me".

I would also like to have seen one more episode focused solely on Gwen's career.  We had so much of Bob and his addictions.  I want to know more about what she was doing before she met Bob and then about their collaborations.  I had never heard of Redhead.  "Set in London in the 1880s, around the time of Jack the Ripper, the musical is a murder mystery in the setting of a wax museum."  That must have been an interesting show!  What happened during the filming of Damn Yankees?  How was she able to keep that role when it moved to the screen?  I feel as if we only got an appetizer of her story while Bob was the main focus once again.

I do want to thank everyone here for sharing stories about the theater in the 70s, history about the shows, personal stories of seeing either the shows or the actors.  It really adds detail to all we have been watching.

*I found this trying to find the above review before remembering where that was on this forum.  From the video description: Liza Minnelli, at her best, performs Nowadays, from Chicago, with John Kander and Fred Ebb on Dinah Shore's TV Show. There's a little surprise at the end of the video. You don't want to miss it.

Edited May 28, 2019 by elle

[Tosia]

7 hours ago, elle said:

The very last bullet point gives a link to the Clive Barnes NY Post review or re-review with Liza.  It is short but I thought it was interesting that he makes a point of saying the long line for booking is . Interestingly, the line is booking for Miss Verdon—all the performances Miss Minnelli is scheduled to give are already sold out.   Think Bob would have mentioned that to reassure Gwen.  I also like his analogy about comparing Gwen/Liz is like comparing red/white wine.  There is more but I don't want to take the meat out of the review.*

Does anyone know what routines or dance steps where added or changed for Liza?  I wonder if Bob ever appreciated that in adjusting the "Mary Sunshine" routine for Gwen so that Roxie sits on Billy's lap like a hand puppet rather than being danced around as his marionette, if this show is to be believed, actually improves the routine.  It makes Roxie/Billy the calm center of the media frenzy storm swirling about them.  I would have loved to hear Jerry Orbach's stories about that show. 

Also, was Velma's role written with Chita Rivera in mind?  The character seems to be very much a minor character in the movies made prior to the musical.

I am curious about what the Michelle Williams was going for with the look on her face during the "All that Jazz" rehearsal.  We see Bob once again reaching out to Gwen for her approval but we never get to hear what her thoughts were for the direction of the show.   

Someone commented that Gwen was trying for "cute" as way to play younger.  We never saw that was what she thought of Roxie.  Gwen just seems to have a "cute" way of being.  You can see it in the Lola character but then in a flash she can switch on sultry.  I really wish there had been more of what Gwen thought of the show other than "Bob don't take this away from me".

I would also like to have seen one more episode focused solely on Gwen's career.  We had so much of Bob and his addictions.  I want to know more about what she was doing before she met Bob and then about their collaborations.  I had never heard of Redhead.  "Set in London in the 1880s, around the time of Jack the Ripper, the musical is a murder mystery in the setting of a wax museum."  That must have been an interesting show!  What happened during the filming of Damn Yankees?  How was she able to keep that role when it moved to the screen?  I feel as if we only got an appetizer of her story while Bob was the main focus once again.

I do want to thank everyone here for sharing stories about the theater in the 70s, history about the shows, personal stories of seeing either the shows or the actors.  It really adds detail to all we have been watching.

*I found this trying to find the above review before remembering where that was on this forum.  From the video description: Liza Minnelli, at her best, performs Nowadays, from Chicago, with John Kander and Fred Ebb on Dinah Shore's TV Show. There's a little surprise at the end of the video. You don't want to miss it.

God, I love Liza! 

Her  special, Liza with a Z, is my all time favorite show. I play the cd all the time.  Loved Caberet & Sterile Cuckoo, too.

Of course, Over the Rainbow, is my favorite song and Judy was such a sweetheart, a tragic sweetheart. 

That said, Gwen Verdon was the Queen of Dance,  and Michelle is giving her an honorable portrayal.

Bob Fosse is an icon,  but yeah, Fosse/Verdon is not doing him any favors personally, yet his genius choreographic legacy will stand forever.  

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, Tosia said:

Bob Fosse is an icon,  but yeah, Fosse/Verdon is not doing him any favors personally, yet his genius choreographic legacy will stand forever.  

Not doing him any favors and I am totally fine with that. He was a douche and the book, the people interviewed for the book, and maybe the writer himself, all try to somewhat excuse him when it comes to how he dealt with the women around him, as if his geniality gave him cover to use women as he pleased.

[Rinaldo]

8 hours ago, elle said:

Does anyone know what routines or dance steps where added or changed for Liza?

Also, was Velma's role written with Chita Rivera in mind?  The character seems to be very much a minor character in the movies made prior to the musical.

would also like to have seen one more episode focused solely on Gwen's career.  We had so much of Bob and his addictions.  I want to know more about what she was doing before she met Bob and then about their collaborations.  I had never heard of Redhead.  "Set in London in the 1880s, around the time of Jack the Ripper, the musical is a murder mystery in the setting of a wax museum."  That must have been an interesting show!  What happened during the filming of Damn Yankees?  How was she able to keep that role when it moved to the screen?  I feel as if we only got an appetizer of her story while Bob was the main focus once again.

When Liza Minnelli played Roxie, the only changes I've seen spelled out in print (in Ethan Mordden's book about the evolutions of this story/play since the 1920s, of course titled All That Jazz)were that she performed "My Own Best Friend" as a solo (which apparently is what Kander & Ebb had in mind), not as a duet with Velma; and that Fosse reinstated his original idea for "Me and My Baby" for her, with chorus boys dressed as babies.

As far as I've seen, Chita Rivera was part of the musical's conception from the beginning, and Velma was indeed built up for her, to provide some relief from what would otherwise have been a marathon role for Gwen.

It's true that we've skipped over a decade in the couple's life, everything between Damn Yankees and Sweet Charity (except for flashbacks for the baby stuff), and with only the finale to go, it's safe to predict we won't see any more of it. Which, though understandable for the arc they're building, is too bad, because there was some substantial work in there:

• After Damn Yankees, Bob choreographed and Gwen starred in New Girl in Town, a quite serious musical version of O'Neill's Anna Christie. Gwen won her third Tony award for playing Anna, in a tie with Thelma Ritter from the same show.
• Then in 1960 Bob got his first direction/choreograhy credit for Redhead, which kind of swept the Tony award: he, she, Richard Kiley, and the musical itself all won. (It's rarely been produced again, but it made a big impression at the time.)
• His next dir/chor effort was The Conquering Hero, based on the Preston Sturges movie, but he was fired during its out-of-town previews and then it closed before coming in.
• He helped out with choreography when How To Succeed in Business without Really Trying came to him, feeling let down by its official choreographer. (He would take only a "musical staging" credit, as he didn't want to embarrass the new kid, but all reports are that Fosse did nearly all of it.)
• He directed and choreographed Little Me, a funny show with a good score, but booby-trapped for revival because it was designed so precisely for the skills of Sid Caesar.

As for Gwen in the movie of Damn Yankees: Yeah, that's an interesting case. It's rather parallel to the movie of The Pajama Game (same authors and production team), which was made just before. In both cases, virtually the entire stage cast was retained for the film, including a "new to film" star (respectively John Raitt and Gwen Verdon) considered essential to its success. But in both cases, to balance out their untested quality, an actual movie star was added to the cast opposite them (respectively Doris Day and Tab Hunter). And in both cases, the experiment was deemed unsuccessful by the Hollywood establishment: Raitt never made another movie, and Verdon returned only in her "grandmother" phase late in life. (To forestall corrections... yes, Gwen made a few anonymous chorus appearances on film at a young age.)

[TimWil]

Insightful interview with Ann Reinking-she’s seen two episodes.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/ann-reinking-on-her-life-as-bob-fosses-muse-lover-and-friend

[gingerella]

I have loved this show, the way it's shot, the look behind the scenes of some iconic musicals from the 1970's, which is the era I cut my teeth on Broadway musicals as a kid. I saw the original run of Chicago with Verdon and Rivera and what I remember was that it was unfuckingbelievable in person. I went with two high school friends during Christmas break. Anyway, we saw Chicago, we bought the album, and I still know every damn line to every song in that show. It was incredibly and although Chita Rivera was amazing, as she always is, I remember it most definitely felt like it was Gwen Verdon's role that was the starring role. She was amazing, and this show has surprised me in seeing that she was viewed - if only by Bob - as on the decline of her career during her Chicago run because you'd never have known or thought that from seeing her in person in that show.

On 5/27/2019 at 10:04 PM, elle said:

Does anyone know what routines or dance steps where added or changed for Liza?  I wonder if Bob ever appreciated that in adjusting the "Mary Sunshine" routine for Gwen so that Roxie sits on Billy's lap like a hand puppet rather than being danced around as his marionette, if this show is to be believed, actually improves the routine.  It makes Roxie/Billy the calm center of the media frenzy storm swirling about them.  I would have loved to hear Jerry Orbach's stories about that show. 

Also, was Velma's role written with Chita Rivera in mind?  The character seems to be very much a minor character in the movies made prior to the musical. 

l was wondering if he put back the dancing puppet sequence instead of having her sit down like he ended up doing to Gwen, and I say 'to' because it seemed like Gwen was doing just fine in that scene/routine.

Re: the second para, as I mentioned above, Velma didn't feel like a second fiddle role if you saw the original run in person, but Gwen did feel like the star to me. Maybe others who saw that run felt/feel differently?

I'm wondering, since it 's called the "season finale", will there be another season of this? I sort of thought it was a one and done mini series but am I wrong?

Edited May 29, 2019 by gingerella

[Rinaldo]

17 minutes ago, gingerella said:

l was wondering if he put back the dancing puppet sequence instead of having her sit down like he ended up doing to Gwen, and I say 'to' because it seemed like Gwen was doing just fine in that scene/routine.

I wasn't there, but none of my reading about the history of the show suggests that any change was made there for Minnelli. Indeed, my feeling is that maybe this rehearsal sequence was "dramatized" a bit for TV, and didn't really happen quite like that. (i.e., Bob may have accommodated Gwen's needs elsewhere, but maybe not here) The "puppet master" staging seems so clearly the artistically better way to stage "We Both Reached for the Gun," I can't imagine Fosse choosing to delete it later. Maybe someone who knows more will prove me wrong....

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I'm wondering, since it 's called the "season finale", will there be another season of this? I sort of thought it was a one and done mini series but am I wrong?

There probably won't be another season a out Bob and Gwen as I'm sure the reason they got Sam Rockwell and Michelle Williams is because it was a miniseries. 

Plus, I'm certain

Spoiler

Bob dies tonight.

But it's possible this creative team will do something else for FX.  There are a lot of interesting theater people.

P.S. Grasshoppers are still the only way I consume alcohol. 

[tennisgurl]

They could make in a sort of theater anthology series, which is what a lot of shows seem to be doing now. Make it about another creative partnership, company, person, or even tell the story of a show from conception to opening night. I could get into that, there are certainly lots of interesting theater people out there. 

I dont know they would call it though. Change the name every season? The stuff with Bobby and Gwen is certainly a one and done season.  

[Jordan Baker]

A Chorus Line? Michael Bennett? 

I know it would be sad--heartbreaking, really--but it's the first Broadway story that popped into  my head.

[Blakeston]

One thing that seems to be missing from the series is any sense of Fosse's charm.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not objecting to them depicting Fosse as a sexual predator - or as a moody pain-in-the-ass. I get that both of those descriptions definitely fit him very well at times.

But he must have had some charm to him. It's hard for me to picture Paddy Chayefsky and Neil Simon being such close friends with him if all he ever did was mope and grope.

[Rinaldo]

22 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

A Chorus Line? Michael Bennett? 

When this question was introduced, Michael Bennett was absolutely the first idea that popped into my head. A Chorus Line itself has been pretty thoroughly gone over, of course, including a documentary about the revival, but his whole professional life has enough milestones (including that what-were-they-thinking marriage to Donna McKechnie) and variety to make good drama, if they stay faithful to it. 

Another one I'd propose would be Cole Porter. My reasoning there is that we've had two big-screen films purporting to tell his life story, and both are nearly complete fictions -- I want something to nullify them. His actual life would be a lot more interesting and varied, and think of all the great songs to include.

[TimWil]

Another very interesting article, this one concerning how Williams found Verdon’s voice:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/05/michelle-williams-gwen-verdon-voice-accent.html

[Jordan Baker]

18 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Another one I'd propose would be Cole Porter. My reasoning there is that we've had two big-screen films purporting to tell his life story, and both are nearly complete fictions -- I want something to nullify them. His actual life would be a lot more interesting and varied, and think of all the great songs to include.

We are on the same page! I, too, was thinking about Cole Porter.

I saw the movie starring Kevin Kline. It wasn't good (although the moment in which he's teaching the actor how to sing "Night and Day" was lovely), and I then rented the one with Cary Grant. Sheesh.

He was such an amazing talent. I'd love to see a good mini-series based on his life and his works.

[elle]

@Rinaldo, I wish I could like that post with an exclamation point!  Thank you for that information.  There was so much more that the show could have shown us about Gwen Verdon, if only they had chosen to do so. 

There is another musical to movie whose story about which I am curious.  With all the fuss that was being made at the time about the change in Sweet Charity, making Charity a taxi dancer, I wondered how the movie Irma la Douce made it to the screen.  Irma La Douce was a musical but by the time it made it to screen all the songs were removed.  "Dis-Donc" is the only song that made it to the movie but only is heard in the background of one scene.  Irma was made in 1963, Charity in 1969.  What was the difference in the movies that made it okay for one to be all about prostitutes but not the other?  Because Billy Wilder was involved or was it one was a musical and the other was not?

[justmehere]

6 hours ago, TimWil said:

Insightful interview with Ann Reinking-she’s seen two episodes.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/ann-reinking-on-her-life-as-bob-fosses-muse-lover-and-friend

Great interview. Interesting that she thought his All That Jazz character might hurt his reputation, that even that wasn't really like him. I'd be curious to know her thoughts after (if) she sees all of this series. She's already disputed some things they've portrayed (and even from the biography). People are ready to believe what's portrayed here, but she lived it. 

[AriAu]

Quote

One thing that seems to be missing from the series is any sense of Fosse's charm.

Bingo-I have been trying to think of a way to convey this, but wasn't able to say it as well as this. He comes off as an asshole...a cheating, selfish/self-absorbed, sexual harrassing asshole and there seemed to be no reason for people to be with him (male or female) other than his talent and/or his power (employer, star or otherwise). A few episodes back, Ann Reinking/Margaret Qualley talks about how she fell in love with him talking to him and we never saw THAT guy. And my English teachers always taught us to show don't tell....yet all they did was tell us how charming he was.

Really glad to read (from the Reinking interview that they did NOT have sex in the hospital room a few days after his open heart surgery.....and that disturbing scene was actually fiction.

[LoveLeigh]

On 5/26/2019 at 10:59 AM, cpcathy said:

I also saw ATJ in the theater, I was like, eight? My mother took me to see everything and I thank her for it.

ATJ?

[mightysparrow]

I wonder if Nicole is still friends with Neil Simon's daughter?  I'd like to think they grew up together and stayed friends.