S01.E10: Crosswinds

[shapeshifter]

Quote

Ben struggles to trust a journalist who wants him to participate in a Flight 828 podcast; Michaela's callings rise to a whole new level when they are accompanied by hallucinations; things get complicated when Olive invites Danny over for dinner.

Airs Monday, January 7, 2019 10/9 CT

[Frost]

I'm finding the whole Grace-Olive-Danny storyline irritating.  If I'm supposed to feel sympathy for Olive, it's not working.  She doesn't seem to care about her father at all.  She doesn't seem torn, she clearly prefers Danny.  Which, is just a weird way for the story to go.  Maybe the actress just isn't good enough to convey an emotional crisis.  All I'm left with is Olive wishing her father would disappear again.

I was disappointed that Mic and Jared slept together.  He's still married!!!  He needs to be a grown up and talk to his WIFE and leave her if that's what he's decided to do.  Not just slink back home and gaze sorrowfully at his wife after he's had sex with another woman.  If they do the whole guilt trip soap opera thing I'm going to pull my hair out.  

The plane mystery is interesting and has enough storyline to fill the show.  Why oh why are they throwing in all this stupid melodrama?

I like Ben's relationship with the podcaster.  Although why the guy would honor Ben's directive not to air his 'insurance' interview is beyond me.  Maybe he's willing to hang on for the long haul.

[shapeshifter]

17 minutes ago, Frost said:

I was disappointed that Mic and Jared slept together.  He's still married!!!  He needs to be a grown up and talk to his WIFE and leave her if that's what he's decided to do.  Not just slink back home and gaze sorrowfully at his wife after he's had sex with another woman.  If they do the whole guilt trip soap opera thing I'm going to pull my hair out.

I, OTOH, am glad they finally got that over with. I'm assuming/hoping when we next see our heroes, Jared will have told his wife off-screen that he's moving out. Normally this would be a totally dick move, but the situation makes it not quite so horrible, especially since his wife/Michaela's best friend (what'shername?) has already said that she always felt like she was just a placeholder for the "dead" fiance.

Still, part of me can't help wondering if Manifest creator Jeff Rake dreamed up the whole return-after-5.5-years-in-wormhole just so he could write a blame-free adultery story. More likely he realized a blame-free adultery story could be inserted into this scifi scenario after deciding on the time warp concept, but I can't shake it.

So. I'm more judgey of the writer than the characters.

Edited January 8, 2019 by shapeshifter

[CCTC]

Usually. I don't mind Olive and sometimes think she does a good job showing being torn about her Dad and Danny, but she irritated me this episode.  I am guessing part of her actions were a reaction to hearing her Dad talk about protecting Cal the  previous episode, and probably some residual baggage of feeling left out when her Dad was so focused on helping Cal when he was sick prior to the disappearance.  Grace actually did not bug me as much this episode.  She seemed to have a bit more self-awareness of her waffling being an issue.  Still, she does not exactly come off as a strong woman, unable to even make Eggos when she was the one who asked Ben to leave.

I am still not feeling Danny either way.  He comes off as simply a plot device rather than an actual person with a personality etc.  He also seems to be manipulated pretty easily by Olive.  While it is pretty clear that Jared and Mick are going to be end game (although I suspect things are going to go very bad for them the next few episodes), I am not as sure about whether Ben and Grace will split up for good.  That would be my guess, but am much less certain.   I haven't really seen any great connection between Grace and Danny that is supposed to be there, but then they really have not had many scenes together.  Both Danny and Ben are written to be a little too understanding to be true.  Josh Dallas does do wounded well.

It does seem like they are moving the mystery on a bit more, although not sure what is going on.  The passenger of the week went in a bit of a different direction.

Edited January 8, 2019 by CCTC

[tennisgurl]

I would have laughed forever if, when Jared was asking why the memory loss guys wife hadn't been around to meet him, Michaela said something like "maybe she was busy being married to his best friend after they waited a whole ten minutes after his death" with a totally straight face. 

Michaela and Jared sleeping together was totally inevitable. Its certainly sketchy, as he is totally married, but its such a weird situation, I can feel a bit more sympathy for them than I might otherwise. I mean, Michaela clearly saw the abused woman being happy about her husband being dead as "everything would have been better if we all stayed dead" so she wasn't in a great head space. Jared just needs to make a choice though, he cant have it all. 

Speaking of needing to make a damn choice and thinking everything would have been better if her husband had been dead, Grace just needs to grow up and stop stringing both Ben and Danny along. Not that any of them are totally innocent, and as she said, she is basically the bad guy no matter what she does, she just never comes off as super conflicted, just pissed off. Her husband coming back to life has been a real inconvenience to her, and everyone knows hows she feels. Ben at least was trying to understand things from her perspective, Grace has never seemed to want to see things from Ben perspective, beside the obvious of him wanting to get back to some kind of normal. And while I normally like Olive, she seems to really prefer Danny over Ben, and while I can understand they have a relationship, that must be so awful for him to know that his wife and his daughter both prefer some other guy over him, and they basically would be fine if he had stayed dead. Him being alive just sucks for them I guess. 

Hopefully with the pilot being involved more, and the passengers starting to organize more, we can get with the actual conspiracy and the actual cool stuff. I did think the passenger of the week stuff was interesting (will we see this guy again? Will he change from the guy he was, or go back to his old, abusive personality?) and we do seem to be moving towards some kind of answers here and there. 

[shapeshifter]

31 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Usually. I don't mind Olive and sometimes think she does a good job showing being torn about her Dad and Danny, but she irritated me this episode.

28 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

while I normally like Olive, she seems to really prefer Danny over Ben, and while I can understand they have a relationship, that must be so awful for him to know that his wife and his daughter both prefer some other guy over him, and they basically would be fine if he had stayed dead. Him being alive just sucks for them I guess. 

If this were a better show, I suspect we would have sensed that with Ben gone *again* that Olive was reliving the loss that led to her depression, which only Danny had been able to cure the first time, so she naturally went to him.
Actually, that is what we heard Olive tell Danny. 
But having a very young, inexperienced actress tell us that is not going to make us feel it. 
We needed to see it.
Like maybe Olive looking distraught as Ben walks away, or something.
IDK. I certainly do not get paid big bucks to write these shows.

[GaT]

I saw this show on my DVR & decided after not seeing the show for a while, it was a good time to say goodbye. Judging by the comments (and lack of), it was the right choice.

[Biggie B]

I am pretty much assuming that now that Jared has openly taken action about his love for Mic, that Lourdes will announce she's pregnant. Oldest soap opera plot in the world - husband will go to wife saying, "We need to talk," whereupon wife will say, "Yes! We do! I have great news! I'm pregnant! Now, what was it you wanted to say?"

[green]

9 hours ago, Frost said:

The plane mystery is interesting and has enough storyline to fill the show.  Why oh why are they throwing in all this stupid melodrama?

Lord, yes ... a thousand times.  Other than the central mystery the rest of the show is total crap!

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Still, part of me can't help wondering if Manifest creator Jeff Rake dreamed up the whole return-after-5.5-years-in-wormhole just so he could write a blame-free adultery story. More likely he realized a blame-free adultery story could be inserted into this scifi scenario after deciding on the time warp concept, but I can't shake it.

How is it blame free.  Adultery is adultery.  He took a vow with Lourdes, not cop woman.  If he loved cop woman so much that she was his "soul mate" (barf!) then don't ever get married to anyone else.  Lourdes is not some place holder.  You don't "use" her like that then discard her.  She is a loving, feeling human being who has been cheated on.

Meanwhile Ben is all about Golden Child as usual.  Never was there a more selfish crapass character on any show ever.  "I am not after finding out the truth because this could effect everyone on planet earth.  I am after the truth to save Golden Child and Golden Child only!  If he wasn't involved then "The Major" and all her "minors" could nuke the planet for all I care and kill everyone else including my other kid I don't care about except in some sort of patronizing way to make me feel good about myself."  Please, Ms Major, if you kill Ben for me I will give you major props.

I guess Vance really is dead.  Too bad.  He was a hundred times the better man compared to wimpy, self-centered Ben.

Edited January 8, 2019 by green

[shapeshifter]

22 minutes ago, green said:

I guess Vance really is dead.  Too bad.  He was a hundred times the better man compared to wimpy, self-centered Ben.

They may have had a funeral, but we didn't see a body. Just sayin'--

Of course, I would not blame actor Daryl Edwards for having jumped ship for other projects--which, maybe as a secondary character his contract permitted? 

And I would pat the show creators on the head for teasing his possible reappearance with no body being shown--even if they knew no way in hell he was coming back.

Edited January 8, 2019 by shapeshifter

[CCTC]

32 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Grace is no great prize.  I fail to see why Danny is so invested in her.  We  know he is emotionally invested in her daughter, which is pretty damn creepy if you ask me.

 

10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

and she has a creepy obsession with Danny.

They keep saying how Danny helped Grace and they had a strong relationship, but have not really shown a strong connection or chemistry between them.  He seems much more interested in his relationship with Olive (and most of his scenes have been with her), and she seems to have a bit of a crush on him.   It all combines to have a bit of a creepy undertone and the makings of a Lifetime movie.

 

31 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It is still a dick move, because he never stopped sleeping with her, and never gave her the heads up that he was going to go back to "Plan A", instead of being with her, "Plan B".

Not that Mick is totally blameless, but she was also in a really messed up state of mind when he showed up.  I would not say he intentionally took advantage of that, but he let his hormones override taking a step back to see if she was in a place where she was ready for this or how it might disrupt her life as well.  Although usually star-crossed lovers on TV don't exactly make smart choices.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, CCTC said:

 Grace actually did not bug me as much this episode.  She seemed to have a bit more self-awareness of her waffling being an issue.  Still, she does not exactly come off as a strong woman, unable to even make Eggos when she was the one who asked Ben to leave.

 

"waffling" and can't make "eggos." LOL. To be fair (which I rarely am to Grace), you can kick someone out and still be completely devastated.

7 hours ago, GaT said:

I saw this show on my DVR & decided after not seeing the show for a while, it was a good time to say goodbye. Judging by the comments (and lack of), it was the right choice.

It wasn't a strong re-entry for me, but at least they dealt with a few elements we've been discussing.

1 hour ago, green said:

Lord, yes ... a thousand times.  Other than the central mystery the rest of the show is total crap!

How is it blame free.  Adultery is adultery.  He took a vow with Lourdes, not cop woman.  If he loved cop woman so much that she was his "soul mate" (barf!) then don't ever get married to anyone else.  Lourdes is not some place holder.  You don't "use" her like that then discard her.  She is a loving, feeling human being who has been cheated on.

 

This reminds me (in a way) of "The Bridges of Madison County" - ya'll might be too young to remember how much a thing that book was when it came out. I had a friend who insisted I read it - and had all of her friends sign the book. Me, I couldn't figure out how it was supposed to be this romantic book, when she cheated on her husband who's main offense was that he was stable and nice. I definitely raised my eyebrows at my friend's rapture about the book, wondering what state her marriage was in. (PS, I didn't sign the book - that was just too weird and I hated it for the storyline and the below average writing.)

I don't object to adultery story lines in general - it's a common enough human failing, done for many reasons. But at least acknowledge that it's hurting another person and a dick thing to do.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Clanstarling

[meggonzo]

2 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I am pretty much assuming that now that Jared has openly taken action about his love for Mic, that Lourdes will announce she's pregnant. Oldest soap opera plot in the world - husband will go to wife saying, "We need to talk," whereupon wife will say, "Yes! We do! I have great news! I'm pregnant! Now, what was it you wanted to say?"

And then Michaela will also end up pregnant, and her baby will need to save the world.

[preeya]

32 minutes ago, meggonzo said:

And then Michaela will also end up pregnant, and her baby will need to save the world.

 

 

32 minutes ago, meggonzo said:

I am pretty much assuming that now that Jared has openly taken action about his love for Mic, that Lourdes will announce she's pregnant. Oldest soap opera plot in the world - husband will go to wife saying, "We need to talk," whereupon wife will say, "Yes! We do! I have great news! I'm pregnant! Now, what was it you wanted to say?"

 

My thoughts, exactly.

[Boofish]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The quote on Michaela's mother's tombstone was from Romans 8:28, "All Good Things".   The flight number was 828.  I'd think Michaela being a cop would pick up on that..

 

 

This has been addressed. The mother had also embroidered a pillow with that bible verse I believe right before the disappearance

Edited January 8, 2019 by Boofish

[Frost]

If it ends up that Danny is one of the masterminds behind the whole plane mystery then all is forgiven!  Why else would the producers feel the need to shoe horn TWO different love triangles into the plot?  The Michaela-Jared-Lourdes triangle at least makes sense as they were all part of the same group before the flight.  Didn't Danny appear at Grace's work place after 828  disappeared?  That's a twist I could get behind!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, meggonzo said:

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I am pretty much assuming that now that Jared has openly taken action about his love for Mic, that Lourdes will announce she's pregnant. Oldest soap opera plot in the world - husband will go to wife saying, "We need to talk," whereupon wife will say, "Yes! We do! I have great news! I'm pregnant! Now, what was it you wanted to say?"

And then Michaela will also end up pregnant, and her baby will need to save the world.

Or Michaela's baby's umbilical cord stem cells will be necessary to save Lourdes' baby from a life-threatening illness and all will be forgiven.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Frost said:

If it ends up that Danny is one of the masterminds behind the whole plane mystery

Danny? A mastermind? Maybe a flunkie.

[crgirl412]

Yes, Jared should've told Lourdes then gone to see Michaela.  That hardly ever happens on tv and probably less IRL.  Human aren't keen on being alone so doing it the right way is too scary.  Characters and real people who actually do it the right way get so much respect.  Not that I think leaving your spouse for your soul mate whether you tell them or not first is a good idea!!  I think if Jared is Catholic and married in the Catholic church, he could get an annulment (the marriage made invalid) since he (possibly) went into the marriage under false pretenses.    

[cathmed]

I don't believe this show will make it a second season - or shouldn't at this juncture.  You have to suspend belief at what the showrunners/writers are doing to this storyline--reading the comments provides a good clue!   We, viewers, usually can devise a much better and realistic story/plot than the writers, and it becomes frustrating when we see character assassinations and stale/overdone or useless storylines/plot devices just for viewership and ratings.   I thought this would be an interesting show (I don't watch many supernatural-type shows) but this has gotten ridiculous and it will be interesting to see how they fly their way out of this mess--certainly on what could have been a promising show, imo.

[Jacks-Son]

My .02 cents on yesterday's episode "Crosswinds". Prophetic title for all of the betrayals swirling around in this episode occurring simultaneously.  I’m glad “Manifest” is back. Now it seems that certain of the 828’er are Alexa hubs, like Cal, and can be used like a carrier. Time Travel and Black Holes? At least the writers are heading for a Master Conspiracy by curious government sponsored scientists as opposed to the whims of a Righteous Deity storyline. Certain things that happened in this episode were personally disappointing but I guess in real life, those things are possible.  I DON’T like Olive’s betrayal of her parents as if it’s only HER feelings that matter. I DON'T LIKE DANNY, I THINK HE'S MANIPULATIVE.  There's no way Danny just shows up for Olive's dinner invitation without asking Grace if it's okay; after the shoplifting fiasco, he's still just barging in like it's his house. I didn’t like Mick sleeping with Jared or Jared sleeping with Mick (however one views it), behind Lourdes’ back.  Who is this new "Mikhail Gorbachev forehead map" female that the bad guys have recruited to spy on Ben? When was SHE introduced?  Also, they want her to find out why Ben is investigating them? Isn’t it because he’s an 828’er and he’s aware of elements of the gov’t that are behind this?  What’s the mystery and why the need for a mole? If they know every conversation going on around her already, what's her purpose except to present an alternative to Vance, since Vance-lite was already on their watch list.

I will say, that with the whole Grace-Danny-Olive "love" triangle debacle, (seriously, neither Grace nor Olive care if Ben is around, so it's just the three of them in a relationship) I WAS hoping for movement on the Ben-Saanvi romance front.  Seriously, Ben is not wanted at home except by Cal, so he should leave and take Cal with him as the "Triangle" aren't even interested in what HE wants (Cal) or even what's his story.  Has Grace ever asked Cal what's going on with him? Has she even asked him what he's thinking? Grace basically doesn't even interact with Cal except  when he's on death's bed, even then she just frets but never seems to want to know what the heck is going on.  Her world is Danny or Ben and a choice, which she seems to be bungling.  I feel she's already left Ben in her heart/head and can't re-awaken that love and it's torturing her (Not that I give a shit about Grace).

Edited January 8, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[eel2178]

16 hours ago, Frost said:

The plane mystery is interesting and has enough storyline to fill the show. 

That's really all I'm watching it for.

2 hours ago, cathmed said:

I don't believe this show will make it a second season - or shouldn't at this juncture.  You have to suspend belief at what the showrunners/writers are doing to this storyline--reading the comments provides a good clue!   We, viewers, usually can devise a much better and realistic story/plot than the writers, and it becomes frustrating when we see character assassinations and stale/overdone or useless storylines/plot devices just for viewership and ratings.   I thought this would be an interesting show (I don't watch many supernatural-type shows) but this has gotten ridiculous and it will be interesting to see how they fly their way out of this mess--certainly on what could have been a promising show, imo.

I'll watch until they decide if it is cancel or renewed. If it's canceled, I'll see it through to the end hoping for a decent explanation. If it's renewed, then I'm done. I can read what really happened however many years later in a TV review. I feel no need to invest my time and energy in the rest of it.

Edited January 8, 2019 by eel2178

[green]

49 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

 Who is this new "Mikhail Gorbachev forehead map" female that the bad guys have recruited to spy on Ben? When was SHE introduced?

She's been around for several episodes.  She was on the flight and "escaped" from the tortured group and apparently was for real part of it until "recruited" by this Major character to join (spy) on the 828 group trying to set the tortured group free.   She first appeared walking in the street up to Ben several episodes back telling him of her "escape" and asking for help as I recall. 

She has already been in their cellar-like hideout and now knows about the beach house too.  She has some criminal history in her past that the Major is holding over her as leverage from what we can gather.  Nice to see she at least tried to get away from the Major but the Major is the big bad I guess and you can't get away from her for long.

Edited January 8, 2019 by green

[Jacks-Son]

@green, Thanks, that was very helpful.  I'll have to go back and check the scenes you mentioned,

[willco]

I lost interest in this episode about halfway thru, for the 1st show back after the break it was so boring ! How they managed to take a concept that, if it happened for real, would be the most intriguing event possibly ever and make it plod along so badly that even me- who can sit thru hours of Ancient Aliens and UFO's stories on the History Channel and not be bored- say it's boring, well, they have real problems with their scripts ! I so wanted this to be my new favorite show when the season started, but now I just want it to end, really. I hate quitting shows, so I need to see where it goes, but I'm not really enjoying it anymore.

 

A big reason, I think, is the Grace/Ben/Danny triangle-- it just doesn't sit well with me. Grace irritates me to no end and the whole thing just seems highscool-ish to  me.

 

I also hate that they killed off Vance, but I also doubt that he's really dead. I'm guessing that will be the big cliffhanger, that he's being held somewhere for some reason.

[mertensia]

Yeah, what I find frustrating is Grace's apparent inability to understand that for Ben there is no time gap. Sure, she moved on (though apparently did no healing), but she doesn't understand for Ben it was three weeks ago.  She keeps acting like they split up 5 1/2 years ago and both stayed in the timeline.

Olive needs serious therapy. 

Yes! Someone who was glad the plane went missing! 

[ramble]

Ugh. I like Josh Dallas but holy crap this show is just not good. Maybe, if they would push the daughter and the mother off screen entirely, and somehow magically recast the eyebrows, um I mean the sister, things would improve. And I won’t even talk about the probable upcoming soap opera baby/slept with two women storyline. More ugh  

I’m interested in the plane storyline - the passengers, the callings, the mystery. There is enough interesting stuff in all that that they don’t need the family drama crap eating up half of the run time. And the really poor acting by some of these people makes that run time suck even more.

My final old lady, get off my lawn complaint is that I am frelling sick and fracking tired of shows using text messages and showing the phones with their small print as part of their plot while expecting us (me) to read them. Have an inner dialogue and speak the lines or include them in the closed captioning. My eyes aren’t what they used to be and this show does not hold my attention enough that I’m staring at the screen all the time anyway. 

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, green said:

I guess Vance really is dead.  Too bad.  He was a hundred times the better man compared to wimpy, self-centered Ben.

 

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

They may have had a funeral, but we didn't see a body. Just sayin'--

Right. Was there an open casket at the funeral? (I really don't know; I wasn't paying that much attention.)

 

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Also, they want her to find out why Ben is investigating them?

Seriously, that was the dumbest line in the whole episode. You really don't know why he's investigating this stuff? Really? Can't think of any reason?

 

Did they actually figure out what was up with the snow in her vision/calling?

If she was connected enough to wake up the one guy, and Cal is apparently so uber-connected, I wonder if he can wake up the others...

[Jacks-Son]

2 minutes ago, ramble said:

My final old lady, get off my lawn complaint is that I am frelling sick and fracking tired of shows using text messages and showing the phones with their small print as part of their plot while expecting us (me) to read them. Have an inner dialogue and speak the lines or include them in the closed captioning. My eyes aren’t what they used to be and this show does not hold my attention enough that I’m staring at the screen all the time anyway. 

I hear you.   I have closed captioning on by default because i have difficulty understanding some of these people when they grumble or speak in whispers,  also it helps with the sound effects during a calling.  When they display text onscreen,  i Just pause and read the text.   Cell phone texts are not part of the closed captioning only the [cell phone vibrates] is displayed in CC. 

[weathered1]

I cannot stand Grace. I just can't. She's resentful of Ben basically coming back from the dead and wanting his family back, when she's the one who immediately made him believe such a thing was even possible, given that she let him move right back in, started sleeping with him again, and playing the "happy" family. And the entire time, she's been angry at him and has blamed him for everything under the sun. I haven't seen any love from her for him, or even proof that she missed him all that much (or even at all). Perhaps we were supposed to see those things, but the actress has ensured that that hasn't happened.

Meanwhile, Danny refuses to recognize boundaries of all kinds, has what seems increasingly like an inappropriate connection with Olive, and expresses some anger at Ben for, you know, existing!

Olive doesn't seem to care much for dear ol' dad at all and is openly showing that she prefers new guy to him. I'd had some sympathy for her, but that's gone now. 

Meanwhile, as Grace is railing at Ben about how he can't just get his life back, how problematic his return has been, etc. etc., Cal is right there, and mommy dearest doesn't seem to care at all about the kind of impact some of her more callous words could have on her son. An additional problem with Cal is that he's evidently supposed to be integral to this whole plane conspiracy mess, yet they chose to hire a young actor who is simply not capable of handling the material. 

I feel sorry for Josh Dallas that so much of his screentime has to be spent with those ill-equipped actors in the midst of such a horrible family story/love triangle trash heap. 

 

As for Michaela and Jared, he absolutely should have told Lourdes that he wanted out of the marriage because, as per the things he told Michaela, he's not at all conflicted - Mic is the one he loves and has always loved, she's the woman he wants to be with, period. End of story. For him to have said those things and slept with Michaela while not cluing his wife into the fact that he at the very least needed some space to wrap his mind around what's transpired was a horrible, cowardly thing to do. 

That said, I do buy the Michaela/Jared chemistry and connection, and the scene where he confessed his feelings was well done, imo. That bit at the end with him gazing at his wife didn't read as conflicted to me - it seemed to me that he knew he'd have to break her heart and was dreading it, even though he's emotionally all-in with his "soulmate".

Of course, that means that the second he mans up and tries to tell her the truth, Lowkey Lourdes will reveal that she's with child. I really hope they don't go such a cliched soap route, but I think they've beaten us over the head with Lourdes wanting a baby for a couple of episodes now for a reason. Ugh. So what will we be stuck with: all three adults agreeing that the marriage is untenable, but Jared will still be there for the child? That would be rational, so it won't happen. Jared and/or Mic feeling guilt at what they did, forcing the former to stay in the marriage, while angst and tortured glances abound? That's more likely but sounds so incredibly boring, and would probably eventually end with Lourdes realizing that she's coming between twu wuv and willingly bowing out. 

What would be ideal is Jared is confessing all to his wife, and Lowkey (not pregnant) Lourdes decides to pack up and leave town, never to be seen again. The character isn't necessary, having two triangles on the show is just stupid, and the actress has always been so awkward and low energy that she hasn't brought a thing to the role, imo. 

 

I do think the show's biggest downside is terrible writing and often subpar acting converging. Grace, Olive, Cal, and Lourdes have been written terribly, and their respective actors don't bring any kind of nuance or real likability to the material. Josh Dallas has been mostly good, but he's trapped in some truly shoddy material. The Mic and Jared actors have been hit or miss, but I do think that both have improved somewhat since the pilot (but there's still needed improvement, especially given the graveyard scene). 

I know that the ratings had been good, so I'm not sure that cancellation is an option. I just don't know that I'm interested in sticking around for the long haul if the writers don't fix some of the show's glaring issues that are making it increasingly unwatchable.

[eel2178]

14 minutes ago, ramble said:

My final old lady, get off my lawn complaint is that I am frelling sick and fracking tired of shows using text messages and showing the phones with their small print as part of their plot while expecting us (me) to read them. Have an inner dialogue and speak the lines or include them in the closed captioning. My eyes aren’t what they used to be and this show does not hold my attention enough that I’m staring at the screen all the time anyway. 

For some reason, they seem to think we all have movie-screen sized tv sets and can read text messages from across the room.

[ramble]

3 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

I hear you.   I have closed captioning on by default because i have difficulty understanding some of these people when they grumble or speak in whispers,  also it helps with the sound effects during a calling.  When they display text onscreen,  i Just pause and read the text.   Cell phone texts are not part of the closed captioning only the [cell phone vibrates] is displayed in CC. 

I suppose I could pause and read but I guess I’m just not interested enough. Why am I still watching? I really like the concept idea of it all. Sigh. I keep closed captioning on all the time. A lot of it’s for just like you said, the mumbling, grumbling, whispery talk some people do. I also never get tired of the music descriptions. *quiet, hopeful piano* 

[Jacks-Son]

6 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Seriously, that was the dumbest line in the whole episode. You really don't know why he's investigating this stuff? Really? Can't think of any reason?

 

How stupid are these government types?   Ben is investigating us,  why?  Didn't Vance have to patiently work through the Paint-by-Number clues for his assistant just to explain why Ben was following certain events and what they could be leading to? And these are the people in charge of security for this super secret project?  The incompetency of these clowns is alarming.  At this rate,  the reporter will blow the story wide open and explain it to the slower Agents-in-Charge

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Grace basically doesn't even interact with Cal except  when he's on death's bed, even then she just frets but never seems to want to know what the heck is going on.

I am so tempted to make a list of the ways Grace is like my sister, but that would not be fun.

20 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

Meanwhile, as Grace is railing at Ben about how he can't just get his life back, how problematic his return has been, etc. etc., Cal is right there, and mommy dearest doesn't seem to care at all about the kind of impact some of her more callous words could have on her son.

Was Olive there too? Sheesh. I know parents do this IRL, but there are consequences. Grace should at least apologize to the kids for setting a poor example of how to treat people. *Sigh* In an alternate universe I am one of the writers and Grace did apologize.

 

1 hour ago, mertensia said:

Olive needs serious therapy. 

Yes, Olive seriously "needs serious therapy." Even though this is not supposed to be a 13 Reasons Why kind of show or a PSA for teen suicide (right?), it seems the options out of this plot corner into which they have painted her are all pretty grim. I tried to make a list, but they all ended dreadfully.

 

1 hour ago, willco said:

I also hate that they killed off Vance, but I also doubt that he's really dead. I'm guessing that will be the big cliffhanger, that he's being held somewhere for some reason.

Having Vance alive would be great and not at all unbelievable in TV-show-land, but I bet Daryl Edwards is glad to move on from this show.

 

23 minutes ago, ramble said:

I am frelling sick and fracking tired of shows using text messages and showing the phones with their small print as part of their plot while expecting us (me) to read them.

I actually saw an enlightened show recently that had the texts displayed like cartoon speech bubbles while we could also see the characters responding to them--so much better. Maybe when everyone was into big-screen TVs (well, not me, but everyone else) these zoom-ins on cell phone screens made sense, but, seriously, these days a lot of people watch on tiny screens. I doubt even young people can read the texts flashed briefly on screen--especially since so many are multi-tasking while watching shows--and especially this show.

 

17 hours ago, GaT said:

I saw this show on my DVR & decided after not seeing the show for a while, it was a good time to say goodbye. Judging by the comments (and lack of), it was the right choice.

I considered pointing out that it's worth watching to come here and snark about, but it's really not.

 

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Given the fact that I couldn't stop laughing when Michaela was at her mother's grave, I would say there is a problem with both the acting and the writing. 

I was just bored. Not sure how much longer I'll last with this show. 

[Jacks-Son]

27 minutes ago, ramble said:

I suppose I could pause and read but I guess I’m just not interested enough. Why am I still watching? I really like the concept idea of it all. Sigh. I keep closed captioning on all the time. A lot of it’s for just like you said, the mumbling, grumbling, whispery talk some people do. I also never get tired of the music descriptions. *quiet, hopeful piano* 

It's also useful for letting you know the title and artist of a song playing.  Some shows display the text in a closeup to keep  the viewer up on what's happening.  Apparently, that's too small of a detail for the "Manifest" writers. 

[pinguina]

What can I say??  Grace continues to irritate me and I think I will add Olive too.  

And how many times does Ben have to take the blame/ownership for Grace's actions, feelings?  Even in this episode Ben tells Cal that he (BEN) left to work on stuff that he (BEN) is going through,  He completely covers Grace's a** for their children and ignores that she doesn't seem to give two cents about Ben (or Cal based on how she behaves with her son).  GRACE is the one who "asked" him to leave (AKA threw him out).  Then when Ben (who in my opinion was justified) got angry because Danny was in HIS home with HIS wife and children, he was yelled at and demeaned by his wife and her boyfriend as well as his daughter!!  I think Ben should just take Cal, forget about Grace and Olive, and let them live happily ever after since apparently by returning he and Cal have basically screwed up their lives.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

For some reason, they seem to think we all have movie-screen sized tv sets and can read text messages from across the room.

I can read them fine on my TV (which is 37 inches and only about 8 feet from my couch)...my problem is the show doesn't hold my attention enough that I can be guaranteed to actually be looking at the screen when there's something to read.

 

1 hour ago, ramble said:

I also never get tired of the music descriptions. *quiet, hopeful piano* 

Heh...maybe I should turn on closed captioning...sounds more entertaining than the show. ;)

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

It's also useful for letting you know the title and artist of a song playing.  Some shows display the text in a closeup to keep  the viewer up on what's happening.  Apparently, that's too small of a detail for the "Manifest" writers. 

And lyrics, if there's no dialog going on. Before I used closed captioning all the time, the music was just background for the most part (unless I knew the song). But it really helps to read the lyrics that underscore the moment on some shows.

I'll use Shazam if I'm not using closed captioning when a song comes on and it interests me.

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

 

Right. Was there an open casket at the funeral? (I really don't know; I wasn't paying that much attention.)

I don't think there was a casket at all, we just saw a memorial with a guy talking in front of a bunch of people. Ben was watching from kind of far back, so I guess there could have been a casket that he didn't see. But a big TV rule is no body, no death.  I'm fairly certain the NSA could fake a funeral, although I'm not sure why they would bother.

[Camera One]

The Major is Ben and Michaela's mother who faked her own death.  She planned Flight 828 to save Cal and because she needed and wanted her two children away from their romantic partners so they wouldn't be distracted from their true mission - to carry on the mantle from their ancestors - The Knights of the Round Table, on their quest to find The Holy Grail.

The Talk To The Grave Recap by Michaela was an ingenious way to remind us what happened, since the previously's didn't do enough of that.

How convenient.  The Callings took a break which lasted the hiatus for this show.

Jared should have manned up and told Loudres he had decided to leave her.  I think he is supposed to have come to this realization after his near-death experience; thus, his lack of eagerness when Loudres was all romantic with the "I'm ovulating" seduction.  I guess we can look forward to even more awkward moments with Loudres in weeks to come.  

Michaela: "I didn't expect you to be back to work so soon."  Look who's talking.  Didn't she go back to the work the next day after coming back from the 5-Year Flight?  It was great he clocked in so they could ignore whatever assignment they had to "find her".

The case-of-the-week had a nice twist with the wife running away after finding out the flight with her abusive husband had returned.  I wish they gave her a new identity too since her husband could regain his memories at any time.

I really liked how Saanvi immediately knew Michaela was having a Calling and even suggested she try touching other patients to wake them up.  

It was hard to feel for Olive in this episode, since she doesn't seem torn about her dad at all.  I was a little surprised that Grace wasn't as automatic about getting back with Danny.  It didn't look like it was solely guilt which was keeping her back. 

When is Ben going to apologize for not staying dead, damnit!  You are the whole reason why this family is messed up!

I liked Vance's underling helping Ben, but I don't think things will end up with for him, nor for Autumn, the worst covert mole ever.

It was also good to see some of the flight passengers together and talking about their experiences.  The Pilot's probably going to be a goner too sooner rather than later.

I don't feel this show is too safe despite the high ratings in the fall.  I can totally see people getting impatient and eventually bailing.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Camera One

[ottoDbusdriver]

Timeline question -- since the plane returned in November, and it's now been 25 odd days since they returned, how come there aren't Xmas decorations everywhere ?  They said it was 10 days since the explosion that killed Vance, and the previous episode was Day 17 or 18 after their return, so they should be well into December now.  No seasonal trappings anywhere.
Plus, in the first episode, it was snowing -- so despite everyone in heavy coats, all the trees still have their green leaves. How does that work ?

Even worse than Mikaela's scene at her mother's grave was Mikaela yelling at an amnesiac 828er who has no idea why she is yelling at him because of the amnesia.

It's becoming annoying with every episode where we find out nothing new about why the frakking plane disappeared.

Mikaela's apartment number is 414 (exactly 1/2 of 828).

[juliet73]

I've watched every episode of this show and the most unbelievable part is that beach house!  

[Jacks-Son]

23 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

 

Timeline question -- since the plane returned in November, and it's now been 25 odd days since they returned, how come there aren't Xmas decorations everywhere ?  They said it was 10 days since the explosion that killed Vance, and the previous episode was Day 17 or 18 after their return, so they should be well into December now.  No seasonal trappings anywhere.
Plus, in the first episode, it was snowing -- so despite everyone in heavy coats, all the trees still have their green leaves. How does that work ?

Even worse than Mikaela's scene at her mother's grave was Mikaela yelling at an amnesiac 828er who has no idea why she is yelling at him because of the amnesia.

It's becoming annoying with every episode where we find out nothing new about why the frakking plane disappeared.

Mikaela's apartment number is 414 (exactly 1/2 of 828).

 

You are now entering the Lost Zone   

[j5cochran]

8 hours ago, ramble said:

My final old lady, get off my lawn complaint is that I am frelling sick and fracking tired of shows using text messages and showing the phones with their small print as part of their plot while expecting us (me) to read them. Have an inner dialogue and speak the lines or include them in the closed captioning. My eyes aren’t what they used to be and this show does not hold my attention enough that I’m staring at the screen all the time anyway. 

Starting in the first episode of Sherlock, the show printed text messages on the screen, in a phone-message sort of font. I loved it, because I could finally read the texts.

[CCTC]

23 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The acting was so horrible when she was at the grave, I couldn't stop laughing at her little speech.

I think the actress has done a decent job at times showing how she is overwhelmed and a bit damaged, but the full crying at the grave scene and the scene when she found her Mom had died were not among those times.

[txhorns79]

Quote

The Talk To The Grave Recap by Michaela was an ingenious way to remind us what happened, since the previously's didn't do enough of that.

I'll give them credit for remembering that Grandma's death should still be pretty raw for Michaela.

And I'm sorry, I just can't with the Danny/Olive/Grace storyline.  No Danny, you check with Olive's mother before just showing up at her home based on Olive's invitation.    

Also, are we supposed to root for Jared and Michaela to be together?  When he was talking to Michaela about how she was the one, and that they were soulmates, I just kept thinking that this guy is married to Michaela's supposed best friend.  How big a sleazebag is he to be talking that way to Michaela?  And is she really so dumb as to not realize that if he is more than willing to throw his wife away like this, there's nothing to stop him from doing the same to her at some point? 

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, weathered1 said:

I know that the ratings had been good, so I'm not sure that cancellation is an option. 

Yea, I don't see it being cancelled at all. It will almost certainly get a second season. It's hated here and from what I can tell doesn't really get much play elsewhere on the internet, but the general audience seem to be liking it I guess because the ratings remain steady.

I have never seen the creepiness that you guys did in Olive/Danny, but this ep made me question whether we're supposed to or not. I still don't think that's the intent, but their scene in this ep was verging on being creepy to me. I still think if Olive was a boy though that no one would be seeing creepiness.

I still enjoy the show. I'm actually interested in the plane mystery (that won't be solved any time soon) and I find all the writers' attempts at family drama hilarious. ETA: Oh, and the acting is good for laughs, too. It is just so bad across the board. Hell, even the Savanii (sp?) actress was utterly terrible in this ep and she's been decent before. It's like the bad acting is rubbing off on everyone. So funny!

Edited January 9, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[tennisgurl]

I thought that when Grace was having her fight about how much her life had been screwed up by the flight returning, and they showed Cal showing up, that it would cut to Cal thinking that his mother was sad that he was alive. which is extra awful, as he has had cancer for so long, and might have felt like a burden on the family even back then, and now here is his mom, wishing that he and his dad had just stayed away and not interrupted her new life. Maybe we get some of that later, but I cant imagine that Cal wouldn't pick up on what this fight is about. Its not like Grace spends a whole lot of time with him anyway when he isnt sick. It would take away from her angsting or yelling at Ben time!

Really, I have no clue how Grace had two men who seem to want to not only be with her, but are cool with waiting around for her to decide if she wants them or wants another man. Maybe during "normal" times she is nice enough, but mostly we see her being a wet blanket at best, and an insensitive jerk at work, who considers her own family to be an annoyance. Just imagine how much better this show would be if we had WAY less Grace on our screen, taking up screen time with her whining, wishy washy ness, and her sub par parenting?

Edited January 9, 2019 by tennisgurl

[tvfanatic13]

12 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Timeline question -- since the plane returned in November, and it's now been 25 odd days since they returned, how come there aren't Xmas decorations everywhere ?  They said it was 10 days since the explosion that killed Vance, and the previous episode was Day 17 or 18 after their return, so they should be well into December now.  No seasonal trappings anywhere.
Plus, in the first episode, it was snowing -- so despite everyone in heavy coats, all the trees still have their green leaves. How does that work ?

Even worse than Mikaela's scene at her mother's grave was Mikaela yelling at an amnesiac 828er who has no idea why she is yelling at him because of the amnesia.

It's becoming annoying with every episode where we find out nothing new about why the frakking plane disappeared.

Mikaela's apartment number is 414 (exactly 1/2 of 828).

 

12 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

You are now entering the Lost Zone   

You beat me to it Jacks-Son... we are in Lost territory.

ETA: Why doesn't Cal just live with Ben and Mic?

Edited January 9, 2019 by tvfanatic13

[CCTC]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I have no clue how Grace had two men who seem to want to not only be with her, but are cool with waiting around for her to decide if she wants them or wants another man.

No one under 40 (or maybe 45) will get this reference, but she thinks she is Erica Kane (although Erica would never make Eggos).

[jhlipton]

Well, of course, Cal is the "Holy Grail".  He's the young, blond, White boy -- the very definition of "Holy Grail" to straight White men.  How boring and trite.  Blech.

On 1/7/2019 at 8:44 PM, CCTC said:

Usually. I don't mind Olive and sometimes think she does a good job showing being torn about her Dad and Danny.

From Olive's perspective, Danny has been in her memory nearly as long as Ben.  I think she 14, so she would have been around 8 when Ben and Cal disappeared.  Danny may have shown up fairly quickly, as an acquaintance of Grace or Olive and only gotten romantic a few years back.  Assuming that she can remember back to when she was 3 (which is doubtful), Ben and Danny have been around the same amount of time, with Ben last being around 5 years ago (a lifetime to a teenager).  So it doesn't make her awful that she prefers Danny to Ben.

21 hours ago, ramble said:

My final old lady, get off my lawn complaint is that I am frelling sick and fracking tired of shows using text messages and showing the phones with their small print as part of their plot while expecting us (me) to read them.

Yes, indeed.  And usually pausing doesn't help -- even with frame-by-frame advance, the text is usually blurry.  Yuck.

21 hours ago, ramble said:

I also never get tired of the music descriptions. *quiet, hopeful piano* 

My personal favorite is [exciting music], played during an action scene.