Blind Items: Daredevil In The Media

[kickingnames]

On 9/26/2018 at 9:10 PM, catrice2 said:

I actually hate that they put Claire with Luke Cage because I thought she and Matt had great chemistry. Count me as one of those who could care less about Karen and I'd rather not see her on the Punisher because I actually like that show

I like Karen on The Punisher, but I agree about Matt and Claire. The most disappointing thing to me about The Defenders was the lack of actual interaction between Matt and Claire, since they went all in on her dating Luke.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, kickingnames said:

I like Karen on The Punisher, but I agree about Matt and Claire. The most disappointing thing to me about The Defenders was the lack of actual interaction between Matt and Claire, since they went all in on her dating Luke.

Totally agree. 

[Danny Franks]

On 29/09/2018 at 2:00 PM, kickingnames said:

I like Karen on The Punisher, but I agree about Matt and Claire. The most disappointing thing to me about The Defenders was the lack of actual interaction between Matt and Claire, since they went all in on her dating Luke.

I liked Karen as a guest on The Punisher, but having her as a full time character would be awful. What's she going to do, keep asking Frank not to be crazy and prone to slaughtering his enemies? That's not a good look for a show that is about righteous retribution. She'd essentially be a spoiler that a lot of fans would hate. Not to say she won't serve a similar role on Daredevil, in season 3, of course.

The worst thing about Claire and Luke Cage is that Luke Cage is still a fucking dud. The guy is so boring, and other than his looks, I cannot fathom why women would be so into him. I think the only times I saw any signs of life were when he was bickering with Danny Rand in The Defenders.

[heisey]

Quite a few articles on season 3 have been posted in the last several days.  These are some of them.  Not for the spoiler-averse.

Collider: Charlie Cox Interview

Collider: 40 Things to Know

Collider: Deborah Ann Woll Interview

Collider: Elden Henson Interview

Screen Rant article

IGN article

Inverse article

[Danny Franks]

From the Charlie Cox interview:

Spoiler

COX: I actually, genuinely don’t know. I know that other actors have a different process, but I don’t get told anything until the script lands. I don’t know anything after what you just saw. I haven’t read the final two episodes. Matt, Foggy, and Karen have been estranged for a lot of this season. He’s genuinely been on his own, Matt. Really and truly kept people at a distance, particularly the people he cares the most about.

Not sure I like the sound of that at all, to be honest. Isolating characters is rarely ever a good thing, on a TV show. A lot of the fun is watching character interactions and seeing relationships grow and change.

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I liked Karen as a guest on The Punisher, but having her as a full time character would be awful. What's she going to do, keep asking Frank not to be crazy and prone to slaughtering his enemies? That's not a good look for a show that is about righteous retribution. She'd essentially be a spoiler that a lot of fans would hate. Not to say she won't serve a similar role on Daredevil, in season 3, of course.

The worst thing about Claire and Luke Cage is that Luke Cage is still a fucking dud. The guy is so boring, and other than his looks, I cannot fathom why women would be so into him. I think the only times I saw any signs of life were when he was bickering with Danny Rand in The Defenders.

What looks? Haha. As I've said before the two things that Iron Fist and Luke Cage have in common is that both leads were miscast and both have supporting characters that are way more interesting than the leads

[VCRTracking]

[Kel Varnsen]

This looks prettu exciting. I am slowly making my way tbrough Iron Fist season 2 and wouldn't be surprised if I finish this before I finished that show. I liked season 2 of DD but it is nice to have Kingpin back. Plus this looks like an adult oriented  R rated movie wherr Iron Fist, other than a bit of swearing looks like something you might see on any other channel

[Danny Franks]

I assume the fake Daredevil is actually Bullseye?

Bit of a nod to the comics, where Danny Rand filled in as Daredevil when Matt wasn't around. I also like Fisk's increasingly faithful Kingpin outfit.

[VCRTracking]

This new video indicates his name is "Agent Poindexter" which is one of Bullsye's aliases:

Edited October 7, 2018 by VCRTracking

[moonshine71]

On 10/5/2018 at 6:26 PM, Danny Franks said:

I assume the fake Daredevil is actually Bullseye?

Bit of a nod to the comics, where Danny Rand filled in as Daredevil when Matt wasn't around. I also like Fisk's increasingly faithful Kingpin outfit.

Fisk hires a homicidal Daredevil impersonator in "Born Again", and Bullseye has also impersonated him in the comics. It's an amalgamation of those stories more than a nod to Danny Rand filling in for him.

[Stella]

Good article in Vulture about filming the hallway scene.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/daredevil-season-3-one-take-fight-scene.html

[benteen]

On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:00 AM, kickingnames said:

I like Karen on The Punisher, but I agree about Matt and Claire. The most disappointing thing to me about The Defenders was the lack of actual interaction between Matt and Claire, since they went all in on her dating Luke.

Yeah, as I recall, there was NO interaction between Matt and Claire in The Defenders, which was ridiculous.

[kickingnames]

Technically, they did speak to each other when the group was discussing the plan to blow up the building (and Luke wanted Claire out of harm's way), but they did not act like they really knew each other even then. Claire acted more like someone who knew Matt when she was talking to Foggy later than she did when Matt was standing in front of her.

We were robbed, I tell you.

Edited October 24, 2018 by kickingnames

[WendyCR72]

Finito.

Not unexpected, but still sucks. If this does go to some Disney streaming service, I bet it would be watered down. So why bother? Sigh.

[blueray]

https://deadline.com/2018/11/daredevil-canceled-netflix-3-seasons-1202511521/

 

I'm sad to hear this :(.  The third season was almost perfect and this was the best marvel show on Netflix. I don't think this was Netflix decision, unless it didn't get enough views. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe they will bring it to the Disney service. But it wouldn't be the same if they can't keep up with the quality  as well as the violence that was in it.

[Morrigan2575]

Were the S3 viewings that bad or is Disney trying to force all their shows off Netflix for their own streaming service?

ETA: Just saw this on twitter

Edited November 30, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[benteen]

Damn it!

Not a surprise but it still sucks.

I did really this on the Polygon website though...

Quote

In a statement from Netflix, the company said, “while the series on Netflix has ended, the three existing seasons will remain on the service for years to come, while the Daredevil character will live on in future projects for Marvel.”

Edited November 30, 2018 by benteen

[Kel Varnsen]

17 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Were the S3 viewings that bad or is Disney trying to force all their shows off Netflix for their own streaming service?

ETA: Just saw this on twitter

Wow at this point it really is a house cleaning. With Luke Cage and Iron Fist I thought it might have been them getting rid of the less popular, less critically acclaimed shows. But in this case it looks like everything. Wonder why they are even bothering with Punisher Season 2 at this point. 

If Daredevil doesn't movie I wonder if this is Disney thinking that too many super hero shows will dilute the audience for the MCU shows they have planned. What is really too bad is that I live in Canada and I  not even sure we will get the Disney service.

[catrice2]

So disappointed. I thought this show and the Punisher were the only ones worth saving, but fans are just victims of the behind the scenes issues. 

[Future Cat Lady]

44 minutes ago, benteen said:

In a statement from Netflix, the company said, “while the series on Netflix has ended, the three existing seasons will remain on the service for years to come, while the Daredevil character will live on in future projects for Marvel.”

 

I think it just means that the character will live on in the comics. 

I'm not surprised, but I'm still pissed. Love season 3 and was looking forward to see what would happen next. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Future Cat Lady

[Stella]

32 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

So disappointed. I thought this show and the Punisher were the only ones worth saving, but fans are just victims of the behind the scenes issues. 

Really disappointed also. Do you know what the issues might be?

I thought Daredevil could easily continue. The other shows I don't really care about, including Jessica Jones.

[tennisgurl]

Damn, thats so disappointing. I havnt gotten around to season three yet, and now I dont even know if I want to watch it, even though I heard it was really good. It sounds like the fans and the shows are the victims of behind the scenes drama. Thats one of the worst ways to lose a show. Its bad to lose a show due to poor ratings or something, but losing a good show over the suites and business deals is somehow even worse.

[UnknownK]

I don't understand the concept of not watching a good shows latest season because it got canceled. There is no ending for super hero shows, not a happy one anyway. Super hero's don't get married have kids and retire, hell they don't even grow old. Most of the time they just get rebooted with a younger cheaper actor.

[pootlus]

Well, poop.

I suppose at least it ended on a good, upbeat (for Daredevil) ending.

[Sakura12]

I was wondering when Netflix was going to announce Daredevil was cancelled then the news comes out the same night. Netflix is done with their Marvel shows. I was bored by this past season, I hate the I must be mopey and do everything on my own hero trope and I never cared for Fisk. So it wasn't until the last 2 episodes when the team got back together that I started caring again. I was kind of interested to see if they would've kept then working together or do what comics do and repeat the same storyline. 

I'm also thinking Jessica Jones and the Punisher will get their cancellations before their seasons air or they will hide them on their release date like they did with Daredevil. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Sakura12

[benteen]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wow at this point it really is a house cleaning. With Luke Cage and Iron Fist I thought it might have been them getting rid of the less popular, less critically acclaimed shows. But in this case it looks like everything. Wonder why they are even bothering with Punisher Season 2 at this point. 

If Daredevil doesn't movie I wonder if this is Disney thinking that too many super hero shows will dilute the audience for the MCU shows they have planned. What is really too bad is that I live in Canada and I  not even sure we will get the Disney service.

Well, Punisher is already done so they might as well release it.  I guess since Jessica Jones is still in production, they felt the same way.

From what I've read, Daredevil Season 3 had less than half the viewers of Season 2.  Now, I actually liked Season 2 but recognize that it wasn't well-received.  I think this was a problem with the later Marvel Netflix shows.  First seasons of Punisher, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage were all well-received.  But Iron Fist was garbage, Season 2 of Daredevil wasn't well-received (save for the Punisher arc), The Defenders was a big disappointment and the second seasons of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage weren't as well received as their first seasons.  Only The Punisher was, before this new season of Daredevil.

I think this was due to the Marvel Netflix formula that they established but didn't deviate from.  Almost all the shows were 13 episodes and they almost never wrote enough story to justify 13 episodes.  All of them had the same look, the same kind of darkness and just clung to that model instead of trying to evolve it a little.

[Ottis]

27 minutes ago, benteen said:

I think this was due to the Marvel Netflix formula that they established but didn't deviate from.  Almost all the shows were 13 episodes and they almost never wrote enough story to justify 13 episodes.  All of them had the same look, the same kind of darkness and just clung to that model instead of trying to evolve it a little.

I actually dug the look of these shows, and some of them (especially DD) had a lot to offer. I thought the different franchises should have been connected more, so that you have this world where the backdrop is the same and the heroes mix but each hero has his/her own burdens. Having completely different shows (aside from a cameo or two of lesser characters) was A LOT of content. 

In any case, this feels to me like Disney f*ing it up. Removing competition so that their own, inferior versions of this content is the only game in town. That's what Disney does. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Ottis

[Hanahope]

You know, the whole point of 'streaming' is to be able to watch shows when you want.  some people aren't able to watch a whole season's worth of a show within a few days of its release.  Sometimes, it takes people a month or two, or three or more to get to it.  I understand the need to make a decision on renewal at some point, but barely 1 month after the season's release seems way to soon, to blame it solely on 'lack of viewing.'

[VCRTracking]

[TVSpectator]

On 11/29/2018 at 9:02 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Finito.

Not unexpected, but still sucks. If this does go to some Disney streaming service, I bet it would be watered down. So why bother? Sigh.

Disney + is going to only have family friendly content and I doubt that these show will go to Hulu since Netflix claims to own all of the shows.

13 hours ago, Ottis said:

I actually dug the look of these shows, and some of them (especially DD) had a lot to offer. I thought the different franchises should have been connected more, so that you have this world where the backdrop is the same and the heroes mix but each hero has his/her own burdens. Having completely different shows (aside from a cameo or two of lesser characters) was A LOT of content. 

In any case, this feels to me like Disney f*ing it up. Removing competition so that their own, inferior versions of this content is the only game in town. That's what Disney does. 

Yeah I believe that Disney/Marvel is pushing the cancellations behind the scenes.

Edited December 1, 2018 by TVSpectator

[TVSpectator]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:51 PM, Stella said:

Really disappointed also. Do you know what the issues might be?

I thought Daredevil could easily continue. The other shows I don't really care about, including Jessica Jones.

I guess Disney/Marvel increased the licensing fees or they demanded to have character return before they get the new streaming service out. Either way I do believe their was Disney/Marvel pushing for cancellations of the Netflix shows. That and Disney likes to own everything/ keep everything together.

 

DD was one of Netflix's most recognized brands and they don't release viewing numbers to the public at all.

Edited December 1, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Kel Varnsen]

29 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Yeah I believe that Disney/Marvel is pushing the cancellations behind the scenes.

Me too. I imagine that Disney is going to spend a shit ton of money on the Loki show and on the Bucky and The Falcon show (both on the actors and on promotion). You don't want to lose viewers because they feel they already have too many Marvel shows to watch.

[moonshine71]

17 hours ago, benteen said:

Well, Punisher is already done so they might as well release it.  I guess since Jessica Jones is still in production, they felt the same way.

From what I've read, Daredevil Season 3 had less than half the viewers of Season 2.  Now, I actually liked Season 2 but recognize that it wasn't well-received.  I think this was a problem with the later Marvel Netflix shows.  First seasons of Punisher, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage were all well-received.  But Iron Fist was garbage, Season 2 of Daredevil wasn't well-received (save for the Punisher arc), The Defenders was a big disappointment and the second seasons of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage weren't as well received as their first seasons.  Only The Punisher was, before this new season of Daredevil.

I think this was due to the Marvel Netflix formula that they established but didn't deviate from.  Almost all the shows were 13 episodes and they almost never wrote enough story to justify 13 episodes.  All of them had the same look, the same kind of darkness and just clung to that model instead of trying to evolve it a little.

They still had good viewership, and calling season 2 not well received is big overstatement(78% from critics, 94% from fans on Rotten Tomatoes).

[moonshine71]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Me too. I imagine that Disney is going to spend a shit ton of money on the Loki show and on the Bucky and The Falcon show (both on the actors and on promotion). You don't want to lose viewers because they feel they already have too many Marvel shows to watch.

This is really on Netflix, not Disney. Netflix doesn't want to air shows that are de facto advertisements for a competing service. I don't believe Disney/Marvel is in the least bit worried about watering anything down, any exposure to a corner of the MCU can be seen as a gateway to draw interest in their service.

I know it goes against the common assumptions, but this is more about a Netflix choice than Disney trying to kill these shows.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2018/11/30/the-real-reasons-netflix-is-cancelling-their-marvel-shows/#723c606a196c

[kickingnames]

Interesting article. My personal theory regarding the end of Netflix Marvel as we know it is that is has some to do with de facto promotion of a competing service, but more to do with Netflix’s (apparently) revised policy on funding original programming.

 

It’s like a new person or policy came to bear on Netflix decision-making for funding original programming. In this new era, Iron Fist being cancelled for low viewership I get (I don’t like it, but I get it), as they can’t afford anymore to keep producing expensive content that not a lot of people are watching. Luke Cage had already been greenlit and they were working on story when Netflix says they can’t afford to produce another 13-episode season (which to me suggests they originally were not concerned about promoting a competing service), and wants to reduce the episode count. Marvel balks at the idea, the situation becomes a deal-breaker, and because Netflix really does need to reduce the budget on the show to cover cost commitments elsewhere, they cancel it.

Then comes the Daredevil renewal. Netflix likes Daredevil, but is still looking to reduce budget on these shows to cover other/newer investments (as evidenced by the cancellation of a lot of their original content across the board), and they realize that the budget impasse that resulted in Luke Cage’s cancellation is not likely to fare any better for the even more popular Daredevil, so they go ahead and cancel it too. This effectively cleans house for Netflix Marvel IMO because — even if the upcoming seasons of Jessica Jones or Punisher might have had enough viewership to justify additional seasons, and even if Marvel had agreed to reduced budgets for those additional seasons — cancelling Daredevil (the flagship Netflix Marvel show) now impacts the viewership for the two remaining shows, because by and large people no longer believe additional seasons are even an option. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where the perceived cancellation of the shows result in lower viewership, which justifies the actual cancellation of the shows, surprising no one because the cancellation was a foregone conclusion.

 

TL;DR: This perspective may be wildly off base from the reality of the situation, but it just struck the logical side of me as more a money issue than a marketing one on the part of Netflix. As a fan I’m still so very bummed about it though. I got into Netflix to watch Jessica Jones, but fell flat in love with Daredevil almost as soon as I started watching it. I’m torn between refusing to open my Netflix app at all because I’m so mad at them and wanting to immediately binge all three seasons of Daredevil again because I miss it already.

Edited December 1, 2018 by kickingnames
too long for even me to read & I wrote it

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, kickingnames said:

TL;DR: This perspective may be wildly off base from the reality of the situation, but it just struck the logical side of me as more a money issue than a marketing one on the part of Netflix

I think it's probably a combination of the money (as you mentioned) as well as the marketing. 

[magdalene]

I saw some folks hoping that the show would just move over to the Disney streaming service. IMO there is not a chance of this happening because Netflix retains the rights to the show.  They are not going to give it to their competition. What I thought after reading the statement by Marvel was that Marvel plans to use the character of Daredevil in the future - but he won't be played by Charlie Cox. 

I think had there been no Disney streaming service coming Daredevil wouldn't be canceled now and may have continued - maybe with 10 episodes per season instead of 13.

I also believe Disney and all the rest of the companies getting into streaming or already streaming are deluded for thinking people will be subscribing to all these different streaming services.  Trying to force people to subscribe to like 20 different streaming services will backfire and just result in more piracy.

[LadyChaos]

6 hours ago, magdalene said:

I saw some folks hoping that the show would just move over to the Disney streaming service. IMO there is not a chance of this happening because Netflix retains the rights to the show.  They are not going to give it to their competition. What I thought after reading the statement by Marvel was that Marvel plans to use the character of Daredevil in the future - but he won't be played by Charlie Cox. 

I think had there been no Disney streaming service coming Daredevil wouldn't be canceled now and may have continued - maybe with 10 episodes per season instead of 13.

I also believe Disney and all the rest of the companies getting into streaming or already streaming are deluded for thinking people will be subscribing to all these different streaming services.  Trying to force people to subscribe to like 20 different streaming services will backfire and just result in more piracy.

This is the thing, right here.  Every company wants their own streaming service. They want their content on their service only.  However, 90% of the population can't afford $500 a month on streaming HBO, STARZ, HULU, NETFLIX, DISNEY+, WB (their planning one), etc... 

 

The reason people ditched cable and started just streaming HULU and Netflix in the first place, is that its cheaper and cable/satelitte is expensive. Hopefully, they will see the error of their ways soon.

[Morrigan2575]

Marvel is the only streaming I might consider paying for. They have some interesting series originating from the MCU.

[Future Cat Lady]

The whole thing is just so confusing. 

The writers and executives are apparently in total shock over the cancellation. If the whole thing was coming from Marvel/Disney, you would think they would had a clue in advance?

And at the same time, the writers went to pitch season 4 to Netflix (and season 3 of Luke Cage). If Netflix was not interested, why would they let them do that and give them hope?

I think it's looking more and more like Netflix is pulling the plug. But at the same time, I don't think that the higher ups at Marvel/Disney give a shit about those shows. Apparently the relationship between the Marvel movie people and the Marvel TV people is not a good one. Maybe the movie people want the tv show people gone? 

I'm sure Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones and the Punisher will find their way into new projects, but it won't be with the same cast nor the same interpretation of the characters. 

Anyway, I just wish someone would come out and say the truth. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Future Cat Lady

[magdalene]

I am pretty cynical and I am not that confused by it.  On one hand Iron Fist, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones were not that successful, either critically or financially for Netflix.  So it makes sense to cancel them.  The situation with Daredevil and Punisher is more complicated.  From what I understand both did well financially and critically and had a lot of social media buzz which is important to Netflix.  So their demise is because of Disney and because of Marvel IMO.

Obviously Jessica Jones and Punisher are not officially canceled but you can bet that after their next seasons drop they will get the axe too.

[Lady Calypso]

It is a shame about Daredevil's cancellation, but I see why it was done. It wasn't because of lack of viewership or lack of popularity. Obviously, Daredevil is their most successful Marvel show and probably in the top ten of most popular Netflix Original Shows in general, if not top five. But we've been witnessing Netflix canceling a lot of their older shows (ie. Orange Is The New Black). We also know that Disney is starting up their own streaming service, which puts the Netflix shows in competition with Disney. I think it's a purely business motive for them to cancel their entire Marvel franchise (since we all know Punisher and Jessica Jones will be cancelled once their seasons air, or right before). The problem is that it may not be a smart business move. Netflix has been creating a lot of content in the last couple of years. The problem with that is that they've chosen quantity over quality. With creating so many shows come financial restraints (hence why a lot of their Netflix shows are cheap to make). 

I think we've moved past the peak Netflix years, when there was less content but better quality content. Now, Netflix has truly become a well oiled machine and their business is to create what they can at high rates. With that, their older shows may not be able to stay, which is why so many of the shows older than 2016 are ending (there aren't many, but they are there). With Daredevil, it's not only one of their oldest and most successful shows, but it's a Marvel show. So I see the thought process with Netflix cancelling it.

It doesn't mean I like it, I agree with it, or am happy with it. I've looked forward to Daredevil coming out. Hell, I waited two and a half years and forced my way through The Defenders so I could get excited for season 3. I also think this was one of their worst choices. Daredevil was hitting its peak, getting back after a shaky season 2, getting back after a shaky Iron Fist and Luke Cage. I think this season of Daredevil had better reviews than season 2 of Jessica Jones, so them making this decision might not sink the company in the near future, but I think it shows the issues with Netflix in 2018. 

[UnknownK]

I don't see why streaming shows are any different then regular over the air TV shows. Very rarely will you see a show like The Big Bang Theory that puttered around a couple seasons then exploded in viewership and kept those numbers over years. Every show I watch has worse numbers season after season until they are canceled. Disney isn't giving the IP out for free and that money could be better spent on other shows that are cheap or shows they actually own forever. Netflix makes it money from subscriptions so they just need a large amount of content they keep coming back.

[TVSpectator]

On 11/30/2018 at 11:57 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Me too. I imagine that Disney is going to spend a shit ton of money on the Loki show and on the Bucky and The Falcon show (both on the actors and on promotion). You don't want to lose viewers because they feel they already have too many Marvel shows to watch.

Of course they are and they are going to have Feige to have creative control over those show (unlike the other current MCU TV show. They are under their respected showrunners. And the showrunners answer the Loeb. Then its (my guess) Alan Fine and Ile Perlmutter. Feige was able to ask Bob Iger if he can go over Perlmutter's head and answer only to Alan Horn and Iger agreed).

 

Also has any seen this from a Matthew Ball on Daredevil's cancellation?

Quote

1/ On Netflix’s Marvel cancellations, there seems to be some nuance that’s missing which tells you a lot about the future of OTT video in 2019. I’m sure both sides wanted a renewal, but the *absolute* not just relative value for both sides continued to decline. And thus no more.

 

2/ Netflix reportedly holds the right to keep renewing these shows, irrespective of Disney's preferences. Disney may be entering Netflix's territory with Disney+, but that didn’t drive the cancellations. Netflix was making a rationale decision based on quality, cost, viewership

 

3/ To point, the shows will remain NETFLIX ORIGINALS for years, Disney would have to buy them back (and says they don’t fit with Disney+’s positioning and won't be rebought) and there’s likely a hold on re-using the IP in TV (i.e. Disney can’t just launch a new Luke Cage in 2019)

 

4/ The reality is these shows were unprecentedly expensive (Netflix reportedly paying 60% markup), but they weren’t very good, audiences have undoubtedly declined precipitously (you can see this in the marketing spend) and it’s hard to grow audience in late seasons (con't)

 

5/ With old, mediocre shows it's just about viewer retention each year To point, Disney never put much effort in their Netflix shows. Daredevil had 3 showrunners in 3 seasons, Luke Cage was 2 in 2, Jessica Jones 2 in 3, etc. (And the teased MCU integration never happened!!)

 

6/ It's telling that the signature achievements and performers of the MCU are the 'Avengers' films, but the 'Defenders' was one of the least buzzy, least viewed titles (in part because the preceding two series, the back half of Luke Cage and all of Iron Fist, were very poor)

7/ The Netflix-Marvel deal was set at a time (Nov 2013) when NFLX needed big, buzzy IP that stood out and didn't need to be managed internally. Willing to pay whatever it took for it And note, the deal was meant to be single seasons. Despite its end, Marvel/Netflix was a success

 

8/ In 2019, Netflix has a huge internal pipeline - fueled by mega-deal with Shonda Rhymes, Ryan Murphy etc - and there's no markup for their own stuff And Netflix's audience and brand are much larger. This means Netflix's needs grew as the contribution of the Marvel shows waned

 

9/ And with Marvel now focused on their own SVOD shows (e.g. the MCU Loki series for Disney+), it’s hard to imagine Disney’s best foot forward was going to go towards aged Netflix series

 

10/ Netflix reportedly wanted to shorten the seasons, thereby reducing total spend and improving retention and quality (Netflix’s shows, especially the Marvel ones, are famously bloated). Reportedly from 13 eps to 6-8.

11/ Which means Disney would have to effectively reduce their revenue from 2/3rds, while keeping valuable characters unavailable for all other live action applications, while focusing on their own D2C. And while Netflix could force a renewal, they couldn’t do so at new terms

12/ So Disney liked balked. The value wasn’t there for either party. It once was. And everyone is now tired of financing another party’s enterprise value growth – the economic incentives (cost minimization and upside maximization) drive vertical integration.

 

Fin/ In short, it just wasn’t working for anyone. Including most of the series’ original fans

Also - To give an numbers example: Marvel shows need 60% more viewership than one made by Netflix, or 30% more made by another producer, just to be even. If we assume Marvel shows have lost 50% of their S1 averages, it's possible DD S4 is 3x+ more expensive than alternatives

 

Also important: the importance of capital letter "Quality" is only growing over time. Netflix is increasingly focused on quality/impact over tonnage (link: https://redef.com/original/netflix-misunderstandings-pt-2-netflix-is-a-product-technology-company) redef.com/original/netfl… Marvel series were primarily about the latter.

To be super clear. The shows will not be revived on Disney+, Hulu, Amazon, etc 1/ Netflix would have blocking rights 2/ Netflix won't sell early seasons 3/ No one would want to drive their customers to Netflix for S1-3 4/ Characters are likely contractually hibernated for 1-2yrs

5/ Disney has said they don't fit Disney+, even when the season rights revert after 5+ years 6/ Talent has been released and is very hard to re-assemble (usually far costlier) 7/ There is more upside in starting fresh, with a different take (see Spider-Man Homecoming)

Also keep in mind, Netflix has 11 seasons (6 subsequent seasons) to assess audience declines and projections going forward. It's not that hard to *know* what future viewership figures would be, 99% of the time. Other option is to cut the budget, but it's very hard w/ a license

CORRECTION: Luke Cage only had one showrunner

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1069649228513902593

Edited December 7, 2018 by TVSpectator

[millennium]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:42 AM, Hanahope said:

You know, the whole point of 'streaming' is to be able to watch shows when you want.  some people aren't able to watch a whole season's worth of a show within a few days of its release.  Sometimes, it takes people a month or two, or three or more to get to it.  I understand the need to make a decision on renewal at some point, but barely 1 month after the season's release seems way to soon, to blame it solely on 'lack of viewing.'

I agree with you, but everything seems accelerated with movies and streaming series now.   If you don't see a movie or binge a series within 48 hours of it dropping, chances are you will be spoiled by the media.   I browse Google News including entertainment news and I can't tell you how many times I have seen spoilers revealed or significantly alluded to in the freaking headlines (so you can't miss it, even if you don't want to read the article so you won't be spoiled) just a day or two after the movie/show debuts.   There seems to be an assumption that the world will drop everything to consume whatever's popular at the moment, and fuck everyone who doesn't.

That said, I liked Season 3 of Daredevil and am sorry to hear the show has been canceled.   

[Hanahope]

20 hours ago, millennium said:

I agree with you, but everything seems accelerated with movies and streaming series now.   If you don't see a movie or binge a series within 48 hours of it dropping, chances are you will be spoiled by the media.   I browse Google News including entertainment news and I can't tell you how many times I have seen spoilers revealed or significantly alluded to in the freaking headlines (so you can't miss it, even if you don't want to read the article so you won't be spoiled) just a day or two after the movie/show debuts.   There seems to be an assumption that the world will drop everything to consume whatever's popular at the moment, and fuck everyone who doesn't.

That said, I liked Season 3 of Daredevil and am sorry to hear the show has been canceled.   

I live in a bubble apparently, I’m rarely spoiled about shows, even a year later.  I do tend to avoid entertainment news and forums until I see the show 

[kickingnames]

The blanket statements from certain outlets about Netflix Marvel shows being mediocre (as part of the explanation for lack of viewership/cancellation) make it hard for me to agree with the rest of their analyses, even when I otherwise would — it just seems like those reporters are repeating something they’ve heard from others, without true first-hand knowledge. Yes there were portions (or seasons) of some of the shows that would qualify as “mediocre” — but not all of them, by any stretch of the imagination. I personally think every S2 declined in quality, with the exception of Iron Fist, (the only one with a truly mediocre season 1, which I sort of liked anyway) and Punisher, which hasn’t released yet. But that doesn’t mean every S2 was mediocre. And besides, Daredevil made a roaring comeback in S3, and I’m hoping Jessica Jones S3 does the same. It’s just doesn’t compute to me when they seem to say that the shows weren’t good anyway, as a factor in Netflix’s decision-making process.

Edited December 9, 2018 by kickingnames

[dwmarch]

Looks like we might not have seen the last of Charlie Cox as Daredevil:
 

Spoiler

https://tvline.com/2020/12/09/daredevil-returns-charlie-cox-spider-man-3-movie/

 

(be advised, other

Spoiler

Spiderman 3

casting spoilers can be found in that article so if you want to remain completely surprised about who will show up, don't click)

[blueray]

That would be awesome. Though I'd rather a tv show appearance as the movie is already crowded.