S37.E11: So Smart They're Dumb

[Jextella]

16 minutes ago, Mswldflwr said:

Nick actually kind of lost me at that point.  He was complaining to his brother WHILE HE WAS IN COLLEGE that they had so little.  It seems Papa saw to it that his baby boy actually made it to college.  Some of the rest of us had so little with five kids, we figured out a way to get there for ourselves.

Not me.  My daughter went to a rich-kid school and she was odd man out.  I recall her friends being completely bewildered that she had to buy her own backpack.  It was a very difficult place for her to be.   You want to fit in, but don't have the resources to do so.  You hang your head high regardless and not everyone gets it.

The other thing is...I remember when we scoped out schools learning about those who are first family members to go to college.  I never realized this but there is a lot of psychology to it and getting kids to see the value of college when others in the family haven't demonstrated it is very hard.  There are special programs colleges have in place to recruit first-timers. Being the first IS often a very big accomplishment in general - and certainly in one's own family.  

Nick made it possible for younger family members to see that college is possible and that they can do more than live in a trailer, sell blood for milk, and live off food stamps.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Jextella

[Bryce Lynch]

21 minutes ago, Maximona said:

Gotta say, I hadn't picked up on the Angelina/Mike alliance at all before this episode.  It shocked me!  Yes, it did! It's tight enough so that Angelina picked Mike to share the reward challenge and so that they vote together.

Did I miss some important editing here? Or is this alliance so sub rosa that the editors haven't played it up?

If this alliance isn't being edited into the "narrative," than it must be really important. [Insert smiley face.]

Christian talks about his girlfriend in his CBS bio, so I've gotta think the girlfriend's existence was at least a casual topic around camp.  I don't think Gabby was motivated by sexual jealousy or anything.  I think she's just one of those people who carries around an enormous chip on her shoulder at all times, tries to disguise it under self-deprecation but catalogs every perceived slight.  Those types of people are prone to lashing out because they're always inwardly seething. Of course, it's always safest to lash out at people who care about her (presumably Christian) because they're the people who are typically the most vulnerable. 

Christian, though, was not particularly vulnerable to Gabby emotionally because he's somewhat emotionally detached.

I was shocked, too, by at personally Nick seemed to take Christian's "betrayal" over Carl's expulsion. Nick seems to be unraveling a bit.  

I agree with everything except the last sentence.  I thought Nick was totally justified in being angry with Christian.  He saved Christian twice, they were in an alliance, they had scratched and claws and used a bunch of advantages to finally get the upper hand on the Goliaths and Christian, for no good reason, decides to vote out Carl, without consulting Nick or Davie.  

Not only did Christian betray Nick, Carl and Davie, he betrayed himself by completely blowing up his own game.  And all because Gabby cried and said she need to make a BIG move.  The ONLY people who benefited from Carl being blindsided were Alison, Kara and Mike, and perhaps Angelina who might join up with her old Goliath tribemates now.

Getting rid of Carl this week would have made way more sense.  The Davids would still have a 4-3 edge at worst, 5-2, if you count Angelina.  If they casually floated the idea to Nick and Davie, they might have jumped at it.  Worst case, they don't like the idea and they vote off Alison.

But, Gabby just HAD to make a BIG MOVE so she would "get the credit" and everyone would realize what a strategic monster she was and hand her the million dollars.   But, I blame Christian even more than Gabby, as he is smart enough to know better. 

It is one thing to get betrayed by an ally who makes a smart move, that helps his/her game.  But, when an ally betrays you to make an idiotic move, it has to be extremely frustrating.  

Edited December 6, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[allirish47]

Can someone help me here - does Davie, or anyone else, know about Nick's idol? I'm not sure how Nick took Christian's efforts to make amends, or the motives behind it. Christian had to know from the moment of the Carl vote that Nick would be upset, so it doesn't necessarily follow that Nick would assume that Davie was involved in getting C. to try to make nice, or that Davie tipped off C. about where the vote was leaning. However, if I were Nick I'd be very worried that the relationship I had with Davie is kaput, & if he has idol knowledge, my game is in serious jeopardy.

[Special K]

8 minutes ago, allirish47 said:

Can someone help me here - does Davie, or anyone else, know about Nick's idol? I'm not sure how Nick took Christian's efforts to make amends, or the motives behind it. Christian had to know from the moment of the Carl vote that Nick would be upset, so it doesn't necessarily follow that Nick would assume that Davie was involved in getting C. to try to make nice, or that Davie tipped off C. about where the vote was leaning. However, if I were Nick I'd be very worried that the relationship I had with Davie is kaput, & if he has idol knowledge, my game is in serious jeopardy.

Davie knows about the idol -- remember he "distracted" the others with his kung-fu dance while Nick looked for the clue on the beach, and also kind of played look-out for him overnight when Nick went to fetch it in the dark.  They haven't shown Nick telling anyone else about it.

[Jextella]

10 minutes ago, allirish47 said:

Can someone help me here - does Davie, or anyone else, know about Nick's idol? I'm not sure how Nick took Christian's efforts to make amends, or the motives behind it. Christian had to know from the moment of the Carl vote that Nick would be upset, so it doesn't necessarily follow that Nick would assume that Davie was involved in getting C. to try to make nice, or that Davie tipped off C. about where the vote was leaning. However, if I were Nick I'd be very worried that the relationship I had with Davie is kaput, & if he has idol knowledge, my game is in serious jeopardy.

Davie knows Nick has an idol.  In the episode in which he found it, Davie covers for Nick when Nick goes to find it in the middle of the night.  Davie said in a talking head that he needed it because he stunk at immunity challenges (and then he won one shortly afterward).  I took that to mean that Nick would be willing to use it on Davie if necessary.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Jextella

[Special K]

3 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Davie knows Nick has an idol.  In the episode in which he found it, Davie covers for Nick when Nick goes to find it in the middle of the night.  Davie said in a talking head that he needed it because he stunk at immunity challenges (and then he won one shortly afterward).  I took that to mean that Nick would be willing to use it on Davie if necessary.

Yes, I got the feeling that it looked at first like they both found the clue together, and it was kind of a co-owned idol, but somehow I think Nick has taken possession of it.

[mojoween]

49 minutes ago, Mswldflwr said:

Nick actually kind of lost me at that point.  He was complaining to his brother WHILE HE WAS IN COLLEGE that they had so little.  It seems Papa saw to it that his baby boy actually made it to college.  Some of the rest of us had so little with five kids, we figured out a way to get there for ourselves.

I did the same bitching while I was in college, because I was a dumb selfish 18 year old who didn’t know any better.  And was enough of a heel to do it directly to MY MOM.  At least Nick was only talking to his brother.

When I got older I realized what an ass I was and I think Nick said last night he realized he was wrong too.  I’ll give him a pass.

Also like someone else said the island has (shallowly) been good to him.  I’m almost afraid to see him at the reunion.

[Haleth]

Is Nick the only one with an idol now?  Or does Davey have one?

[Gummo]

One of the funniest Tribal results I've seen in a long time! Man, Gabby, I like you but you are SO BAD at this! You practically TOLD Christian at Tribal that you were voting for him. Even if Davie's warning hadn't put him on alert, you gave away your whole game right there!

I don't get the hostility to the raw emotions on display at the family reunion episodes. Kara hit it right on the head -- You go out there for 20+ days in the rain and wind and deprived of food and sleep, surrounded by people none of whom you can really trust, and you will be desperately grateful to see someone who loves you unconditionally, whom you don't have to hide anything from, who you don't have to fear is doing you dirt behind your back. 

I always enjoy those episodes because, like Mike said, it gives you insight into the competitors and humanizes even the worst villains (THIS STATEMENT INVALID IF A HANTZ IS ANYWHERE IN THE VICINITY.)

It STILL cracks me up when the jury marches in and it's a parade of Probst's beloved BAMs (Beefy Alpha Males). If jury facial reactions are anything to go by this early, the rest of the contestants had better get Christian out or he's going to win unanimously.

Angelina's bragging to mom about the rice buy-in was such a little kid moment - Mrs. G. found it obnoxious but I found it endearing. "Mom, the teacher put MY drawing on the bulletin board today!"

Best cast in years, good editing, challenging challenges that don't obviously favor male upper body strength -- I don't even care who wins at this point, I'm just having so much fun watching this season!

[Special K]

I also enjoyed when Mike turned to everyone else at the loved-ones reveal and said, "I'm sorry for everything I've done to all of you."  In this (and other) moments, Mike kind of acts as a stand-in for the audience -- we vilify and judge these people freely, but then when you see them with their mom or spouse, so vulnerable and human, it's really touching.

The acknowledgements on Christian's Master's thesis (2011) include this to Emily:

Quote

To Emily, who always makes a rainy day a joy,

Who has dinner cooked when I come back from the lab,

Who could not possibly know how happy she makes me every day.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5685a33005f8e23aa27901d3/t/5764f339d2b857317596add4/1466233660403/Hubicki_2011_MastersThesis.pdf

[Matty]

I got distracted by something else and missed the end where they show the votes. What were the final vote counts? Who voted for who? Also, another question for you all. Are there going to be two or three people going up before the jury at the end? Thanks! By the way, loving this season.

[Special K]

Just now, Matty said:

I got distracted by something else and missed the end where they show the votes. What were the final vote counts? Who voted for who? Also, another question for you all. Are there going to be two or three people going up before the jury at the end? Thanks! By the way, loving this season.

Voted for Christian:  Nick, Davie, Kara, Gabby, Alison

Voted for Gabby:  Angelina, Mike

Voted for Alison:  Christian

I believe it will be a 3-person Final.

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I, too, found Mike’s reunion with his boyfriend weirdly chaste. I missed the announcement of who he was and at first assumed he was a brother, or maybe a cousin.  Clearly they’re not into PDF.  

Ha!  This was an adorable typo result.

[ByaNose]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Ha!  This was an adorable typo result.

I never knew people put their realitonships in to a pdf document. Who knew? LOL!!! I also agree that they looked more like distant friends then partners in life. I know some don't like PDA but they didn't even look like they were into each other. Maybe, the boyfriend isn't in to dirty people who have brushed their teeth. I must have low standards. LOL!!!!

[jay741982]

First off Nick can STFU with his hypocritical anger his "Mason Dixon Is Dead" BS. Christian wasn't even in his F4 plans. 2. Angelina is a stupid woman wanting Nick F4 or closer she won't beat him. 3rd the 4 that went on reward can fuck off with their " this is the best 4 we are so awesome and superior to those dirty dogs" bullshit. Made me instantly think if this is F4 Its a horrible end to the season and 4th GOD THEY ARE MORONS CANT THEY SEE NICK NEEDS TO GO AS WELL IF THEY WANT TO WIN! 

[Sentient Meat]

My idea of a reward challenge wouldn't be eating lunch on a choppy raft...  I don't care how hungry I was, it would be cancelled out by the motion sickness that would immediately follow.

I don't think Gabby was sexually jealous, I just think she's a competitive person in general who gets jealous of everything.

I think Emily might be conventionally pretty if she lost weight and fixed her teeth... that's the main difference between her Gabby... and I'm someone that likes Angelina's body type so I don't think I'm hating on bigger women... she just needs to get to a healthy BMI level.

Angelina is conceited and I can see why people compare her to Tracy Flick, but unlike the Election character... I think she genuinely likes others in the tribe who she feels haven't done her wrong.  I think considering how her mother seemed to behave, that she came out pretty well all things considered.  Christian does the same type of pontificating but because he's nerdy and she's beautiful... he comes off looking endearing and she comes off as full of herself.  I honestly wouldn't mind if she won as she cracks me up with her over the top dramatics and is a great Survivor character.

Nick did come across as sympathetic after seeing him with his father and hearing the story of their difficult start.  It's still hard for me to overcome the edit at the beginning that portrayed him as as more of a snake.

I like Davey a lot too... and would be happy with him winning as well.

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Davie, on the other hand: I would love it if someone could explain to me what Davie is doing and why it's good.  His wanting to use Christian as a meat shield seems to me frankly delusional.  Davie does not need a meat shield.  There is nobody saying "boy we need to get Davie out, but first these other huge threats!"  

I have to say I don't understand this.  Isn't that the point?  Nobody is saying "Let's get Davie out" because they're saying "Let's get Christian out" and Davie wants to keep that going.  I feel like this proves Davie's point.  It's like Jeremy and Joe in whatever that season was that Jeremy ended up winning.  He wanted Joe there as long as possible and wanted to keep him in the game.

[eskimo]

I'm with Nick, everything they had to do to get the numbers back, just to give it right back up, was stupid.  Not only have they given up the numbers, they've alienated Nick.  I like both Christian and Gabby, but their timing was way off.  Fatally off.  Deal with the 'Godfather' until it's safe to cut him later.  And nobody would have faulted Gabby for targeting Christian later, either.  It would have been seen as smart later, but even if she'd survived this tribal, targeting your #1 this early would have been seen as disloyal by the jury, I think.  It was unnecessary.  Sometimes a 'big move' is just not having and itchy trigger finger. 

Nick moved up in my book.  I'd be very happy with a Nick win.

Of all the Goliath's to have left its these 4?  Man, insult to injury.  One Mayor of Slamtown is worth more than these 4 combined.  He's the Goliath I wouldn't have minded winning.  

Edited December 6, 2018 by eskimo
to add

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

SLOW. CLAP. 

I like Davie. But I don't see what he's doing that is so awesome. I was a bit more impressed with Nick's smoothing things over with Christian (although I guess Christian ultimately didn't buy it) and plan to use Gabby as the backup. Davie almost seems like he wants to have HIS OWN IDEAS for the sake of having his own ideas, not because the other ideas are actually bad. 

Ha!  I hope he wins.  I mean he's in the top 8 or whatever.  That's what he's doing.  He's getting to the end.  They're all playing a good game if they're still there.  Even our beloved Angelina.  Even Kara, who the editors REFUSE to show me anything of.  

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

You must not watch Judy Judy.  People like that show up on there all the time and have other people fighting over them.  Never ceases to amaze.

I have a theory about that because as you intimate - it happens all the time.

I would propose that after someone experiences a few different relationships, all they really want is someone who doesn't drive them crazy. If you want to be cherished and pursued relentlessly by the opposite gender, just be polite to them and don't drive them crazy. That's all it takes beyond the basics (like bathing regularly and good grooming and reasonable clothing). If you will just do that, I believe you will become a big hit with the opposite gender. I was a total bust with ladies until I put that into practice and I couldn't believe all the highly attractive women that began pursuing me. Honest! But all of them just drove me crazy. Weren't you wondering how that happened?

[mojoween]

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/06/survivor-gabby-pascuzzi-david-vs-goliath/

Gabby says she’s not jealous.

Also she can’t have it both ways by one week saying she cries and people need to not be bothered by it and the next week say it was strategic.

Edited December 6, 2018 by mojoween

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

Not me.  My daughter went to a rich-kid school and she was odd man out.  I recall her friends being completely bewildered that she had to buy her own backpack.  It was a very difficult place for her to be.   You want to fit in, but don't have the resources to do so.  You hang your head high regardless and not everyone gets it.

The other thing is...I remember when we scoped out schools learning about those who are first family members to go to college.  I never realized this but there is a lot of psychology to it and getting kids to see the value of college when others in the family haven't demonstrated it is very hard.  There are special programs colleges have in place to recruit first-timers. Being the first IS often a very big accomplishment in general - and certainly in one's own family.  

Nick made it possible for younger family members to see that college is possible and that they can do more than live in a trailer, sell blood for milk, and live off food stamps.

Great post Jextella..... it's hard to go to school among people much more wealthy than you are.  I'm sad looking back that I had jobs since the age of 10.  It's very easy to be jealous of people who didn't.  It makes zero sense to me because that money wasn't going to help my parents anyway.  But I still understand that my parents had it extremely tough and made huge sacrifices to get me where I am today.  Obviously I'm extremely grateful and I enjoy a lot of privilege now because of their work.

[Jextella]

My favorite mom name:  Hazel.  Love that name and while it fits Davie's mom to a tee, it would be cute on younger women too.

[BarneySays]

14 hours ago, Mark2 said:

Again, I thought Nick would vote with his head, not his heart.

I don't understand why you would assume he was not playing with his head.  The last vote exposed that the cloying, precious dweeb and his snowflake sidekick were a couple.  They always try to split up the couples- especially this late in the game where their two votes carry more power.  Furthermore, they all see christian as a threat so it makes sense to target him (just like they targeted alec for the same reason).  And he had an idol that they would want to get rid of.  Just like they targeted the used-to=be-fat guy for the same reason.  That vote seemed perfectly rational. 

[watch2much]

I thought it was interesting that Christain's letter from home was from his Dad, but the visit was his girlfriend.  Deliberate on Survivor's part.  you can know someone has a gf but I agree it was the feeling that she was robbed of feeling "special"...

[nottopbravo]

Good thing Production gave that idol to Christian.  He would have been toast without it.  Of course he would play it.  Now that he did, this is the time to vote him out.

But noooooooo, he will win the whole thing, due to the stupid play of others.

[Bryce Lynch]

27 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

First off Nick can STFU with his hypocritical anger his "Mason Dixon Is Dead" BS. Christian wasn't even in his F4 plans. 2. Angelina is a stupid woman wanting Nick F4 or closer she won't beat him. 3rd the 4 that went on reward can fuck off with their " this is the best 4 we are so awesome and superior to those dirty dogs" bullshit. Made me instantly think if this is F4 Its a horrible end to the season and 4th GOD THEY ARE MORONS CANT THEY SEE NICK NEEDS TO GO AS WELL IF THEY WANT TO WIN! 

I don't think Christian fell out of Nick's Final 4 plans until after he betrayed the alliance by blindsiding Carl.

I always take any Final 4 talk during a reward with a huge grain of salt.  What else is everyone going to say when one of them says, "This should be our Final 4."?  "Nope, we are voting you out this TC and her at the next one."?   

Nick has been much more under the radar than Christian.  I think everyone pretty much assumes Christian will certainly win if he makes it to the Final 3.   Nick has subtly played a great game, as has Davie, but I don't think either of them are viewed as massive threats.  

1 minute ago, nottopbravo said:

Good thing Production gave that idol to Christian.  He would have been toast without it.  Of course he would play it.  Now that he did, this is the time to vote him out.

But noooooooo, he will win the whole thing, due to the stupid play of others.

If Christian wins, I think it will because he finds another idol or two (possibly planted conveniently by production).  I think everyone sees him as a near lock to win at FTC and try hard to prevent him from making it there.  

[Special K]

5 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I thought it was interesting that Christain's letter from home was from his Dad, but the visit was his girlfriend.  Deliberate on Survivor's part.  you can know someone has a gf but I agree it was the feeling that she was robbed of feeling "special"...

It looked to me like some of them received multiple letters.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

I don't understand why you would assume he was not playing with his head.  The last vote exposed that the cloying, precious dweeb and his snowflake sidekick were a couple.  They always try to split up the couples- especially this late in the game where their two votes carry more power.  Furthermore, they all see christian as a threat so it makes sense to target him (just like they targeted alec for the same reason).  And he had an idol that they would want to get rid of.  Just like they targeted the used-to=be-fat guy for the same reason.  That vote seemed perfectly rational. 

I agree.  Targeting Christian was totally rational.  Everyone in the tribe recognized this.  The fact that Christian had betrayed his alliance only made it an easy decision for Nick.  If Christian hadn't joined up with Gabby to vote out Carl, it is possible that Nick and Davie might have made an emotional decision to keep Christian around too long.  

[Jextella]

3 minutes ago, Special K said:

It looked to me like some of them received multiple letters.

I think Alison said she received letters from all her siblings, both parents...or something like that.  It was definitely more than one.

[Lantern7]

7 hours ago, Maximona said:

Gotta say, I hadn't picked up on the Angelina/Mike alliance at all before this episode.  It shocked me!  Yes, it did! It's tight enough so that Angelina picked Mike to share the reward challenge and so that they vote together.

I didn’t mean that.

Short story: on the latest season of The Challenge, Ashley and her partner Hunter won the final mission, earning $1 million. However, there was a points system in place, and Ashley had more than Hunter, so she was given the option to either split the money or keep it all for herself. She chose the latter, even though she was a gigantic pain in the ass most of the time. Hunter wasn’t exactly endearing either, but a lot of people thought he carried her to the win, and he would not have been blamed for taking all the money.

That’s what I meant by invoking Angelina. If she wins the $1 million, I feel she will have earned it. Also, I don’t keep track on why she’s hated . . . something that I partially blame on the barrel of suck that is The Challenge that I keep diving into. Also, I’m pretty dense. I think of someone that gives headaches, I think of Natalie.

At least there didn’t seem to be butthurt with Gabby. This could’ve have been a Burton/Lillian “How dare you screw me while I’m screwing you!” siuation.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Lantern7

[paul4295]

I just came here to say I thought the title of the episode should have been "Have a nice flight home.  Watch lots of movies."  If you missed it, that's what Christian said to Emily (I may not have the exact words, but that was basically it) after losing the reward challenge and not being picked to go on the reward. I thought that was hilarious.

[BarneySays]

12 hours ago, Jextella said:

The mom was too much and now I see where Angelina gets it from.  Angelina is a maroon (I LOVE that word for her)!  But for me, she's a loveable maroon.  She's trying her Tracy Flick darndest to prove her worth to others while being totally clueless about just how transparent she is.  I actually find it funny.  Her intentions are good and I find her entertaining and endearing. 

I agree wholeheartedly.  Angelina is a hoot and I love the Tracey Flick reference; it's spot on.   I get the impression she doesn't take herself too seriously, which is why she is so fun to watch.    From the minute she had her eye on that jacket and was trying to shepherd a vote so she could get it, she has been great TV.  (Natalie was also great IMO, even if only for that doubletake when one of the morons said, we don't have to worry about the shelter, it doesn't look like it's going to rain.)  I bet she's fun around camp. 

[Dewey Decimate]

Kara has shot up my list of potential winners with her glorious performance in that IC. She was like some statuesque Amazon queen, fit to be sculpted into the Gates of Argonath. And her hair is amazing. I like how she's taken the bizarre developments that have been thrust upon her (ex. dopey cop guy falling in love on the first day, Gabby turning on Christian) and jiu jitsu'd them skillfully, like a sailboat using an opposing wind to move forward.

Davie is also terrific. I totally get keeping a "meatshield" - no one seems to be talking about him, despite an immunity win and being in on many (all?) of the Davids' strategic manipulations. I imagine he wants to keep it that way.

I confess to having base judgments about Christian's gf's appearance, but immediately checked myself and simultaneously wondered how much body-relevant talk we'd see about Nick's dad, who appears to be in far worse physical shape, but also happens to be, ya know, a man. (I do wish they'd given Christian's gf a sunhat, though, as her scalp already looked sunburned - ouch!)

Still waiting for Allison to DO something worthy, meh. Still can't wait for Mike to go. Still entertained by Angelina and don't mind her sticking around. Just please not a boring elimination of all the Davids! 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Dewey Decimate

[KimberStormer]

3 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

Mike suggested the vote for Gabby,

Whoops, maybe I misremembered (or did I?  @Jextella has a different claim?) I remember thinking it was a sort of funny-cold move from Nick, but smart.  @truthaboutluv, I agree it was maybe not great to put the Davids down in numbers again but the thing is he was selling it to the Goliaths, who wanted a split-vote for safety, and maybe they wouldn't go for it if he said a Goliath for the split.  And maybe tribal lines are so shattered that it doesn't really matter anymore.  Maybe.

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I have to say I don't understand this.  Isn't that the point?  Nobody is saying "Let's get Davie out" because they're saying "Let's get Christian out" and Davie wants to keep that going.  I feel like this proves Davie's point.  It's like Jeremy and Joe in whatever that season was that Jeremy ended up winning.  He wanted Joe there as long as possible and wanted to keep him in the game.

Yeah, that's the point of a meat shield, but what I'm saying is I don't think Davie needs that.  Jeremy played an incredibly quiet and subtle game in Cambodia but he also looks literally chiseled from marble and has a sort of star quality that draws people's attention, no matter what he does.  Davie, as far as I can tell, isn't attention-grabbing that way.  He's average size, average build, and for all his flamboyance in certain confessionals seems quite able to fade into the background when it's to his benefit.

I guess it's like, to me, Davie can be under the radar all by himself.  He's good at it.  I think he should have faith in himself and his ability to not be noticed, and not think he needs Christian to distract people.

[alegtostandon]

16 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

I don't understand why Gabby wanted to vote out her biggest ally.   

I never thought of the girlfriend angle, somehow I knew he had a gf, but don't know where I gained that knowledge, lol! 

Gabby's reasoning of 'it's time for me to make my big move,  I've been voting the same as Christian all season and he's getting all of the credit.', like she's muttered anything besides 'what should I do; why don't they like me; boo hoo hoo!'.

16 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I thought that their ultimate target was Gabby.  Somebody - NICK even though the cameras pretended it was Davie - said outright that Christian has an idol. I assumed Davie was fine with this, but then he refused to participate in the vote.  

What I remember being said was Gabby had turned on Christian and  wanted to vote him out but they were not sure if he'd use his idol so they would vote Gabby to make sure one of them goes.

I, too, loved the way Gabby turned Allison and apologized, then watching her face fall as she realized it was her.  Her exit speech talking about making her big move but they must have seen her as a threat to vote her out.  Sweetie, you were voted out with 2 votes, not unanimous! 

[ByaNose]

Gabby could have waited another 3 days and then should have worked the Christian blindside. I'm not sure if her putting Christians name out there was a good or bad move. Since, the David's were in the minority I'm thinking either Gabby, Christian or Davie were targets. In the end, I still think she wouldn't have won. I think the jury would have thought she was carried a long and didn't do the heavy lifting. It not because they didn't like her or anything but that she didn't do all the work. Although, from the edit it looks like her and Christian had equal say how the vote was going.

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, amazingracefan said:

I still think Christian going over to Nick saying he knew he was upset should have been a signal to Nick that Davie had been talking.

Agreed. I actually thought Christian played that badly; it was way too obvious. And I thought Nick received it pretty believably. But I guess Christian didn't totally trust it. It might have been a case of knowing HE was being disingenuous with Nick, so the reverse was likely true as well. 

[ljenkins782]

12 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I refuse to buy into the “Hell hath no fury like a Gabby scorned” scenario.  The editors were working pretty hard tonight to make it look like she was motivated by jealousy, but that is a tired and insulting stereotype of women. And prior to tonight, there was no indication that Gabby had any romantic feelings toward Christian at all. Could she have been jealous? Sure. I don’t know what’s in her mind. But I find it more likely that she actually was trying to make a big move. And the fact that she didn’t pull it off doesn’t make it a bad move. (Being so vocal about it at TC, on the other hand...)  Farewell Gabby, you brilliant, weepy mess. I didn’t hate you, but I can’t say I’ll miss you.

I was baffled to come here and see all of the talk about Gabby being jealous of Christian's GF because I had no idea that it WAS his gf. I guess that's what I get for multitasking during the show, I thought that was his sister. In fact, I wondered aloud why none of them (save Mike) had a significant other as a loved one. I did hear Gabby remarking about Christian with Emily (?) but all I heard was about Christian being a protector, which could have applied just as well to a sister. If anything, I thought the "jealousy" was directed at the fact that he was having such an intimate conversation with Kara. Gabby has gotten paranoid in the past about other women taking her spot in the alliance, so I assumed this was another of those moments.

Quote

 

I, too, found Mike’s reunion with his boyfriend weirdly chaste. I missed the announcement of who he was and at first assumed he was a brother, or maybe a cousin.  Clearly they’re not into PDF.  But c’mon, Mike, at least give him a peck on the cheek. Geez.

I had to laugh at Angelina bragging to her mom about the Great Negotiation. That must be some competitive family, or she just really, really craves praise.  She may be 80% Tracy Flick, but I think she’s also 20% overeager puppy.

For those who thought Christian’s TC moves were calculated, count me in. I felt that he scrutinized everyone’s face as a way to make them feel like he had some kind of superacute mental powers— like, “You can’t fool me! I can look into your eyes and know just what you’re thinking, so don’t try it again!” He knew he was going to play the idol before he got there.  As for his glances at Gabby, I think he just wanted her to know he knew.

I have no idea where this is headed, but for now I’m firmly Team Davie. I really like his style, and also it would be so fitting if, at the end, Davie slew Goliath.  (The only downside to that is that Jeff would love the pun way too much.)

 

Yeah, Mike and his boyfriend had a very stilted reunion on the beach, but they seemed closer while on the reward.

Angelina made me laugh out loud when she used an approximately 3-second greeting to brag about her no-immunity for rice deal. I mean, I guess she couldn't have known that she would have more time later to talk to her mom, but the fact that she rattled that off first thing was just so Angelina. I want her to make FTC, try to bring that up as a bragging right, and get immediately shot down for it being a self-serving, calculated move by someone who'd already become a goat by that point. 

Also, Angelina's mom being the only one standing up and yelling during the challenge was fitting. Definitely a competitive gene pool there.

I also thought Christian's move was calculated, but could have been about 5% sincere too. The fact that he almost let Jeff count the votes before speaking up gave him a good opportunity to scan the faces for looks of relief turned to alarm, that part seemed plausibly sincere. But he seems to have a slight streak of Penner or MvGX David in him, like he's aware of the story that will be told on TV as he's living through it, so he knew that would be good TV (and maybe would look good to the jury too). 

I'm glad Gabby's move bit her in the butt. I can agree with her that she and Christian were making moves together, but she should ask herself why he was getting the credit. It could certainly be the age-old man vs woman issue, where the man is automatically given credibility where a woman isn't and that could absolutely be PART of the reason. But in this case, I think a lot of the onus is on her. Christian clearly has better relationships with most of these people and that's part of the equation. You can have the greatest idea in the world, but if you can't sell it to anyone, it's useless. Look at someone like Shii-Ann on All-Stars, her entire boot episode was centered around her trying to (correctly) point out that not only was the alliance of Rob/Amber the biggest threat, but Amber herself was sliding by under the radar and could win. But Shii-Ann couldn't sell a life raft to a drowning man, she had neither the personality nor the relationships to make her case. 

I see Gabby in the same boat. The only reason "her" plan to oust Christian was so readily accepted was because it was really everyone's plan. They were all trying to make that happen already, her cooperation was just one fewer obstacle to the thing that they all already wanted. And I don't think she realizes that, nor does she realize that some of her earlier moves with Christian probably succeeded more due to him than to her.  She was kind of his plus-one in all of their alliances, he forged the relationships and brought her along. 

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree with everything except the last sentence.  I thought Nick was totally justified in being angry with Christian.  He saved Christian twice, they were in an alliance, they had scratched and claws and used a bunch of advantages to finally get the upper hand on the Goliaths and Christian, for no good reason, decides to vote out Carl, without consulting Nick or Davie.  

Not only did Christian betray Nick, Carl and Davie, he betrayed himself by completely blowing up his own game.  And all because Gabby cried and said she need to make a BIG move.  The ONLY people who benefited from Carl being blindsided were Alison, Kara and Mike, and perhaps Angelina who might join up with her old Goliath tribemates now.

Getting rid of Carl this week would have made way more sense.  The Davids would still have a 4-3 edge at worst, 5-2, if you count Angelina.  If they casually floated the idea to Nick and Davie, they might have jumped at it.  Worst case, they don't like the idea and they vote off Alison.

But, Gabby just HAD to make a BIG MOVE so she would "get the credit" and everyone would realize what a strategic monster she was and hand her the million dollars.   But, I blame Christian even more than Gabby, as he is smart enough to know better. 

It is one thing to get betrayed by an ally who makes a smart move, that helps his/her game.  But, when an ally betrays you to make an idiotic move, it has to be extremely frustrating.  

All of this is true. I enjoyed the Carl blindside as a viewer - mostly because Carl went on a power-trip and I love seeing people who do that get their comeuppance. But strategically, it really wasn't the greatest move. Not at all. 

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I have to say I don't understand this.  Isn't that the point?  Nobody is saying "Let's get Davie out" because they're saying "Let's get Christian out" and Davie wants to keep that going.  I feel like this proves Davie's point.  It's like Jeremy and Joe in whatever that season was that Jeremy ended up winning.  He wanted Joe there as long as possible and wanted to keep him in the game.

I agree with the concept of a meat shield, I just don't think Davie needs one.  He is really under the radar and I'm not sure if anyone perceives him as a threat.  I wouldn't be surprised if of the seven remaining, the others considered him and Mike to be the least threatening.

Davie's problem is that I think his game is too tied to Christian's.  I think Davie suffers from the same problem that Gabby did.  Many of the moves he made (even playing his idol for Christian because he had a "feeling" after a Goliath spilled the beans) aren't going to be perceived as his.  Plus his idol that tribal will be overshadowed by the steal a vote and nullifier.  I think most people would perceive Christian as the driver in that alliance.  So Davie would have been better off getting rid of Christian and using Nick as a shield.

The jury is so far filled with a lot of Goliaths (John, Dan, Alec) that had little to no contact with Davie at all.  So far of the players on the jury, I think the only vote he seems like he would get no matter who else was with him in the finals would be Carl's.  Carl knows what Davie has done, but I think the only other person that really is fully aware of Davie's gameplay is Christian.

Re Mike and his boyfriend... I was washing dishes and I missed the introduction.  Saw them hug and I assumed that the guy was Mike's brother after Mike said something about how they are so different but always there for each other.  I get that there are couples that aren't that affectionate knowing they are on camera but they haven't seen each other in almost a month and they acted like they barely knew each other.  Odd.

Angelina was as irritating as ever.  Just like how Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera is going to have "She voted out her mom!" on her tombstone, Angelina's will say "I negotiated for rice".  Angelina is a superstar in her own mind.

At this point in the game, it seems inevitable there is going to be at least one person that makes it to the finals who thinks they really deserve to be there but is going to get laughed at by the jury.  Like Hannah and Ken during the Adam Klein season.  Hannah especially truly thought she played the best game and had made all these brilliant moves that nobody remembered.  Angelina would be a Hannah.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

Yeah, that's the point of a meat shield, but what I'm saying is I don't think Davie needs that.  Jeremy played an incredibly quiet and subtle game in Cambodia but he also looks literally chiseled from marble and has a sort of star quality that draws people's attention, no matter what he does.  Davie, as far as I can tell, isn't attention-grabbing that way.  He's average size, average build, and for all his flamboyance in certain confessionals seems quite able to fade into the background when it's to his benefit.

I guess it's like, to me, Davie can be under the radar all by himself.  He's good at it.  I think he should have faith in himself and his ability to not be noticed, and not think he needs Christian to distract people.

I don't even think looks have much to do with it....... nobody on the jury will think that the best looking person deserves to win Survivor.  (Maybe Dan to Kara, I don't know.)  It's about the best player.  There are many things that draw attention to Davie:

1)  Winning an Immunity Challenge
2)  Making the so-called "Big Move" at Tribal Council to save (Christian?)
3)  His mother showing up, wailing over how much she loves him and calling Davie her most loveable child - Davie's loveable, is the point.  
now 4)  Once again being instrumental in almost single-handedly saving Christian yet again, simply because he wanted to

The thought never entered my mind that Jeremy needed Joe as a meat shield because he's good looking and has a star quality.   That's not how I saw that season whatsoever.  Jeremy spent the entire game cloaked in a hoodie with body language meant to push everyone's attention away from him - looking down, looking away.  Jeremy and Davie think the same way - as long as the attention's not on me, then things are good.  They're not thinking, wow I'm so fucking irresistibly hot that I need Joe and Christian around.  (I understand Jeremy reacting to his first season, and then changing his game accordingly, so some of that might be involved, but definitely not with Davie.)  That's now how I saw it personally.  And I don't think it's arrogant either, like @Bryce Lynch said it was.  I just think it's interesting gameplay and I want to see where it takes Davie from here.

11 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree with the concept of a meat shield, I just don't think Davie needs one.  He is really under the radar and I'm not sure if anyone perceives him as a threat.  

Ha!  This is making my head spin!  I feel like Mugatu in Zoolander.  Yes, this is the point!  Nobody perceives Davie as a threat and he wants it to stay that way.  He wants Christian perceived as the threat.

Davie:  I want Christian around so I'm not perceived as a threat.
Audience:  That's stupid.  Nobody sees Davie as a threat.
Davie:  (Is happy)

Edited December 6, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Gummo]

Of course, the flip side of not being seen as a threat is not being seen as a player, either. If Davie makes it to the end, he better have a damn good speech ready to make his case. 

[RedbirdNelly]

25 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I also thought Christian's move was calculated, but could have been about 5% sincere too. The fact that he almost let Jeff count the votes before speaking up gave him a good opportunity to scan the faces for looks of relief turned to alarm, that part seemed plausibly sincere. But he seems to have a slight streak of Penner or MvGX David in him, like he's aware of the story that will be told on TV as he's living through it, so he knew that would be good TV (and maybe would look good to the jury too). 

 

I thought it looked like a drama attempt (not that well acted) by Christian. I like him; glad he played the idol, but my impression was he 100% knew he was playing before any of the looking around started and the acting was kind of painful to watch.

I feel like Gabby's timing is just always off. Yes, Carl, was a threat for not including her--suggesting she was the low man in the group, but likely could have waited at least one more week. Yes, Christian is going to beat you but it seemed to me, waiting until there were fewer people made more sense for reasons previously discussed by others.

I'm now regretting fast forwarding past the family visits since I missed Angelina's celebration of her rice trade. She is like a spoof of herself.

[blackwing]

7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Ha!  This is making my head spin!  I feel like Mugatu in Zoolander.  Yes, this is the point!  Nobody perceives Davie as a threat and he wants it to stay that way.  He wants Christian perceived as the threat.

Davie:  I want Christian around so I'm not perceived as a threat.
Audience:  That's stupid.  Nobody sees Davie as a threat.
Davie:  (Is happy)

I see where you are coming from, but my point is that I think Davie is probably perceived as #6 out of 7 if they were going to rank them in order of perceived threats.  So in that respect I think EVERYONE except for Mike is acting as Davie's shield. 

3 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Of course, the flip side of not being seen as a threat is not being seen as a player, either. If Davie makes it to the end, he better have a damn good speech ready to make his case. 

Yep.  Gabby realised that, so good for her for trying to do something about it.  Davie doesn't seem to realise that because I think in Davie's mind he is playing an awesome game and has controlled the game and everyone will see that when he makes it to the end.  I think Davie and Angelina are suffering from the same delusion.

[ratgirlagogo]

13 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Davie's problem is that I think his game is too tied to Christian's.  I think Davie suffers from the same problem that Gabby did.  Many of the moves he made (even playing his idol for Christian because he had a "feeling" after a Goliath spilled the beans) aren't going to be perceived as his.  Plus his idol that tribal will be overshadowed by the steal a vote and nullifier.  I think most people would perceive Christian as the driver in that alliance.  So Davie would have been better off getting rid of Christian and using Nick as a shield.

 

3 hours ago, Special K said:

3 hours ago, Matty said:

I got distracted by something else and missed the end where they show the votes. What were the final vote counts? Who voted for who? Also, another question for you all. Are there going to be two or three people going up before the jury at the end? Thanks! By the way, loving this season.

Voted for Christian:  Nick, Davie, Kara, Gabby, Alison

Voted for Gabby:  Angelina, Mike

Voted for Alison:  Christian

Why are so few people remembering that DAVIE VOTED FOR CHRISTIAN????   That certainly doesn't suggest he was trying to save the guy, now does it?

[Jextella]

5 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Why are so few people remembering that DAVIE VOTED FOR CHRISTIAN????   That certainly doesn't suggest he was trying to save the guy, now does it?

 

I wondered the same thing at first, too, but then it occurred to me....he knows Christian has an idol and that Christian wasn't going anywhere at least not then.   He has another few days with a shield around to figure out another plan.  I also think he had no chance in hell of thwarting the current plan so her went along - smartly so.

10 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Was it Nick that came up with the idea to throw votes on Gabby? I think @KimberStormer also said this, but then someone else said it was Mike. I don't really remember. 

 

I'm very certain it was Nick who made that recommendation.  It was off camera but it was his voice.  Angelina and Mike came to the tent and Nick quietly said you two could vote for Gabby. Mike and Angelina said that would be a good idea.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Jextella

[ratgirlagogo]

7 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I wondered the same thing at first, too, but then it occurred to me....he knows Christian has an idol and that Christian wasn't going anywhere at least not then.   He has another few days with a shield around. 

I think it's just as likely he was trying to get Christian to use his idol.   I mean he made a point of telling Christian he was a target, so he'd be ready to use the idol, and then he voted for Christian, not Allison the way Christian was expecting. Davey couldn't be sure Christian was going to pay attention to the warning.  Either way the vote went (Christian gone, somebody else gone but Christian uses up his idol) puts Davey in a better position vis a vis Christian.

Edited December 6, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[blackwing]

13 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

 

Why are so few people remembering that DAVIE VOTED FOR CHRISTIAN????   That certainly doesn't suggest he was trying to save the guy, now does it?

If Davie hadn't been trying to save Christian, he wouldn't have told Christian that he was the target.  Christian thought that Alison was the target.  Davie knew Christian had an idol so essentially told Christian to play his idol.  Since he knew Christian had an idol, I'm assuming he voted for Christian to make it look like he was with the others.

[amazingracefan]

19 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I thought it looked like a drama attempt (not that well acted) by Christian. I like him; glad he played the idol, but my impression was he 100% knew he was playing before any of the looking around started and the acting was kind of painful to watch.

I also thought it was for drama and he was always going to play it, it was awkward and I'm not sure if it was at the producers suggestion or not.

 

It would have been interesting had the second target had been Davie, so he puts the target on someone but it rebounds on himself, which I think may have happened on some season.  Despite all the talk at the reward I'm not convinced at this point that he is that tight with the others.  Even with Christian though he helped him here he also seemed to keep him here in the dark about the actual vote.  I suppose as the others look at it Christian has had to use up his idol, though to back that up they need to make sure he doesn't get another (or win immunity).