S11.E09: It Takes You Away

[libgirl2]

44 minutes ago, The Companion said:

"The Husbands of River Song" is one of my favorite episodes of all time. Admittedly, I love River Song, so that has something to do with it, but I also thought it had a great balance of humor and emotional kick. Agreed, though, that Christmas wasn't really a huge factor. I am a bit sad because it is one of our Christmas traditions to watch the Christmas episode. 

Agreed. That was a beautiful moment. We have seen him long to be able to tell her about his adventures, and to get that emotional payoff was really satisfying. 

It is mine too! I loved when The Doctor kept hoping she would know who he was and she didn't! 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

5 hours ago, darkestboy said:

That was a shit show of an episode. There was a great idea in there somewhere but the execution was absolutely horrific. Jodie and Bradley had some beautiful moments and they weren't even enough to stop this trainwreck of an episode.

The talking frog was taking the piss. Why the fuck did Ed Hime think it was a smart idea at all? How did Chibnall not scrap that idea at scripting stage and just had Grace try and tempt the Doctor or whatever?

Zygons were mentioned. They could've been a great monster to have used here instead of the Solitract, Ribbons etc.

Ryan and Yasmin easily could've sat this one out and I didn't care enough about the guest characters. 

Beautifully shot I guess but yeah, this was shite, 5/10

Lol, I was hoping that Graham, Yaz,and Ryan would stay behind and The Doctor would leave alone back to The Tardis to start over with a new ,interesting companion . 

[benteen]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

There’s a New Year’s Day special. Chibnal decided they had run out of Christmas ideas

Whether or not they should do another Christmas special is one thing but the last thing you want to hear a new showrunner say is that he's run out of ideas for something.  One of the reasons you hire a showrunner is to come up with new ideas.

Although he was one of the more interesting aliens this season (that really isn't saying much) what the hell was the purpose of the Ribbons character?

Edited December 3, 2018 by benteen

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, benteen said:

Whether or not they should do another Christmas special is one thing but the last thing you want to hear a new showrunner say is that he's run out of ideas for something.  One of the reasons you hire a showrunner is to come up with new ideas.

Although he was one of the more interesting aliens this season (that really isn't saying much) what the hell was the purpose of the Ribbons character?

 

I thought he would be the main "danger" but he really wasn't. I don't think he was necessary to the story. I don't know..... I thought this episode was a mess and really didn't like it very much. Last week's was much better, then again, we did have Alan Cumming. 

That does scare me that he has run out of ideas. Even if its just for a Christmas special, you would think he would have something interesting to bring to the table. What will he do next season? 

Edited December 3, 2018 by libgirl2

[Sakura12]

I wouldn't say this was the best episode but it wasn't the worst. It had some good themes and stories. It felt like a bunch of fairy tales smushed together with some sci fi thrown in. 

Eric is the worst though. He left his blind daughter terrified in her home and just figured she'd be fine. 

I wonder if Ryan called Graham, grandad because he came back for him. While Eric abandoned his kid to be with his dead wife. With his abandoned issues he finally saw that Graham was around just for Grace. They are two people that loved her and our family because of her. 

[Eulipian 5k]

2 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Eric is the worst though. He left his blind daughter terrified in her home and just figured she'd be fine. 

There was a European tourist couple in NYC that left their infant in a baby carriage outside a bar while they had  drinks inside.

The couple said it was commonly done in their home country.; most New Yorkers wanted them arrested! Eric didn't expect any wanderers or any human threat to Henne. The only danger would have been a stray bear looking for all that food he had left for her, LOL.

[libgirl2]

15 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

There was a European tourist couple in NYC that left their infant in a baby carriage outside a bar while they had  drinks inside.

The couple said it was commonly done in their home country.; most New Yorkers wanted them arrested! Eric didn't expect any wanderers or any human threat to Henne. The only danger would have been a stray bear looking for all that food he had left for her, LOL.

I have heard of that and can't even imagine. 

[Sakura12]

Well he could've made some excuse to be gone for a few days. Not make her think he'd been taken by a fake monster he made up, complete with a speaker set up outside. I think saying not to go to far outside because of the bear traps would have sufficed. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Sakura12

[DavidJSnyder]

4 hours ago, rur said:

Of the last three years, only one was specifically dependent upon Christmas: that was last year, with the Doctors getting the soldier back in time for the Christmas truce. But "The Husbands of River Song" and "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" were only marginally Christmas and although both "began" at Christmas, neither was dependent on the holiday for the storyline. And, IMO, those two episodes were what a Christmas episode should be: fun, frothy, and ending happily. That's why I've been kind of looking askance at Chibnall's comment about having run out of Christmas ideas. I suspect this may be his way of putting his stamp on the series and is using Christmas as an excuse, or it's his way of hitting back at what he has said has been the BBC's irritating BTS running of the show. 

Is there a citation where Chibnall is sourced as saying he's out of Christmas ideas?  Because the one reference I found that claimed Chibnall said it cited the Daily Mirror article here https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-christmas-special-scrapped-13520717  where it's actually Moffat who said they've overminded the holiday. 

[tennisgurl]

That was an interesting episode, pretty high concept in a season that has been pretty low key, at least as low key as Who ever gets. I generally thought it was a good episode, with my only real complaint being that it had a bit too much going on for just an hour long episode. We have the possible monsters, we have the family stuff with Hana and Eric, the portal, the sketchy goblin guy and the moths of unusual size (the MOUSs), the meditation of grief and moving on, and, of course, a whole sentient universe. I feel like any one of those things could have filled an episode! 

I do really like the whole sentient universe thing, and the final scene between it (her? he?) and the Doctor was really lovely and profound, and Jodi played it perfectly. You could see the Doctor growing in her understanding of this universe, and relating to it as another ancient, one of a kind being who longs for companionship, despite often feeling lonely and isolated from a universe she wants to explore, but feels separate from. Even the talking frog hit that sweet spot between silly, and charming, in the way that Doctor Who can do when its cooking with gas. And Jodi really allowed the Doctor to feel so old and sad when she said how she made a friend. 

So, Eric watched The Village and though "wow, that seems like a great thing to do to my blind daughter too!" I can get how he got swallowed up in grief and kept going back to see his dead wife, but ditching his daughter to do that is a seriously shitty thing to do. I did love the setting, and it was nice to be in modern day somewhere that isnt the UK.

Graham taking sandwiches whenever he goes on an adventure is brilliant. You never know when your gonna need a sandwich while wandering around a sentient universe! Seeing how much Graham still misses Grace, even though he has been doing an admirable job at keeping it together, was quite powerful. I wish we had gotten the granddad between he and Ryan after a bit more of an emotional arc between them, or more interaction in this episode, but it was still a sweet moment, especially after he had to leave Not Grace behind. 

[Mabinogia]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I wish we had gotten the granddad between he and Ryan after a bit more of an emotional arc between them, or more interaction in this episode, but it was still a sweet moment, especially after he had to leave Not Grace behind. 

I think it worked for Ryan though. He's not a terribly demonstrative person so I think some big emotional "granddad" wouldn't feel organic to his character while this just casually tossing it out there after seeing how affected Graham was by seeing Grace again, as well as his experience with Hannah and her dad I think he was finally ready to open up to the idea that Graham isn't going anywhere and is his family now. 

Ryan was right about Hannah's dad though. He did leave her. Sure, he said he was coming back, but he didn't even bother to tell her he was going, and he seemed pretty settled in with his dead wife. I don't think he would have come back if he hadn't been caught. I feel for poor Hannah because she deserves a better dad than that.. 

I wish Graham had turned on Not-Grace the first time he brought up Ryan and she kind of brushed it off. Because I did. No way in hell Grace would have, even for a second, suggested Graham stay with her and not Ryan. But he did do it eventually so it's all good. 

[silverstream]

I found it odd that Hanne did not call the police; I'd certainly have if my dad had suddenly dissappeared for days after boarding up the house. For all she knew he was lying in the woods somewhere, injured by the "monster". She threatened Ryan with calling the police on him, so she must have had the means - if not for that line, I'd have thought there was no reception. Hanne's dad certainly was awful enough to leave her there without any way of calling for help.

[rur]

1 hour ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Is there a citation where Chibnall is sourced as saying he's out of Christmas ideas?  Because the one reference I found that claimed Chibnall said it cited the Daily Mirror article here https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-christmas-special-scrapped-13520717  where it's actually Moffat who said they've overminded the holiday. 

You're right. It was Moffat who said they were out of ideas, and he acknowledged that they'd more or less ignored it the last couple of years, and those were some of my favorite episodes. (I was not a fan of the mind crabs episode, nor the convolutions of the plot.)  I'm still looking askance, though, because (IMO) it doesn't have to be overly Christmasy to be the Christmas episode. It just needs to be something that's going to be fun to watch and will leave you feeling good when it's over. 

Even though this episode wrapped up fairly neatly, it wasn't feel-good. Maybe that's the issue being dealt with. 

[DanaK]

19 hours ago, futurechemist said:

No clue about next week, but we haven't had a Dalek yet. My understanding is that there needs to be a Dalek once a year or else the BBC loses the rights to them.

I don’t think that’s really true

[tennisgurl]

11 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

There was a lot of the movie Solaris in this episode. The frogiverse latched on to the grief of the widowers and used that as the lure to entice the humans to stay. It even constructed an earth like apartment for Eric to play house in.

 

I was thinking the same thing. The name of the universe even sounded a bit like Solaris. Both about sentient places that create images images of lost loved ones to get people to stay there, but are kind of trippy but also cerebral and themed around accepting or ignoring grief, I cant imagine its a coincidence. 

[WatchrTina]

I find it interesting that some people liked this.  I hated it.  HATED it.  Let me count the ways:

1. The Doctor eating dirt in order to figure out where and when they are.  
2. The Doctor breaking and entering into someone's house.
3. A father who abandoned his blind daughter, leaving her alone in a boarded up house after setting up speakers so that she thinks there are monsters outside. 
4. The Doctor making a bargain she has no intention of keeping (she was clearly not going to give up her sonic.)
5. Carnivorous moths that'll get you if you move.  Except when they don't.
6. String that stays taut even after it's been cut.
7. A small blind girl knocking out a grown man with a door.
8. Did I mention the piece-of-shit father who ABANDONS his blind daughter and sets up speakers to TERRIFY her? 
9. The super-powerful alien manifests as a frog?  Really?

God that was crap.

[Rhetorica]

I'm still enjoying this series but have come to a conclusion.  Chibnall is good at telling stories about social issues but not so good at science fiction.  

[cardigirl]

14 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

It is mine too! I loved when The Doctor kept hoping she would know who he was and she didn't! 

And I may have had something in my eye when he got to say “Hello, Sweetie.”

[jacehan]

6 hours ago, Rhetorica said:

I'm still enjoying this series but have come to a conclusion.  Chibnall is good at telling stories about social issues but not so good at science fiction.  

But that's what most science fiction is about.

[ae2]

14 minutes ago, jacehan said:

But that's what most science fiction is about.

I disagree with you on premise, there is an awful lot of sci-fi that doesn't exist for discussing social issues. But I want to set that aside for a second to say...

The beauty of using sci-fi (or fantasy) to discuss social issues is that you can do it in subtle or abstract ways to reach people that would otherwise not experience or not care about those social issues, and to present it in a way that doesn't instantly put them in a defensive (stubborn) mindset.

It's so much easier to identify and understand issues when you are not the center of the issue with all of your preconceived notions and all of your pre-existing opinions that are firmly rooted and unlikely to change.

So good sci-fi can broach the topics using situations and characters that don't instantly set off that alarm bell and put the reader/viewer in the defensive. It begins to chip away at the root of those opinions and attitudes without the viewer even realizing it, so that someday they may come tumbling down.

Bad sci-fi takes that social commentary, and doesn't bother with subtlety, and doesn't take the viewer out of the story, and doesn't take the story out of the viewer, and does nothing at all to affect change in anyone.

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

And I may have had something in my eye when he got to say “Hello, Sweetie.”

Same here. It was so romantic. 

[Triskan]

Waw, really surprised at how many people were taken out by the frog.

Guys...guys... a sentient universe took the form of a frog... how more awesome do you want it to be ? That was magnificent and Doctor Who at its finest ! 

[benteen]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, Eric watched The Village and though "wow, that seems like a great thing to do to my blind daughter too!" I can get how he got swallowed up in grief and kept going back to see his dead wife, but ditching his daughter to do that is a seriously shitty thing to do. I did love the setting, and it was nice to be in modern day somewhere that isnt the UK.

Yeah, to actually think that whole thing up and set it in motion shows deliberate thought and action.  That's not someone who has just snapped one day.  Erik knew exactly what he was doing.

[cardigirl]

48 minutes ago, Triskan said:

Waw, really surprised at how many people were taken out by the frog.

Guys...guys... a sentient universe took the form of a frog... how more awesome do you want it to be ? That was magnificent and Doctor Who at its finest ! 

Yeah, but they coulda done the frog better.  I mean, they've had giant robots with human heads for gosh sakes. :) 

[Eulipian 5k]

4 hours ago, ae2 said:

I disagree with you on premise, there is an awful lot of sci-fi that doesn't exist for discussing social issues.

All literature reflects social issues,(ie, the world) it may not be the conscious intent but it comes within the writer. You might think there was no social commentary being made when ALL the Doctors, companions, and extras were white men, but some got the strong message being sent. Notice how that changed as the world around the writers changed. Most of your nursery rhymes and fairy tales, (the motif of this episode) are heavy handed social commentary we don't recognize some hundreds of years later.

[WAnglais1]

9 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

All literature reflects social issues,(ie, the world) it may not be the conscious intent but it comes within the writer. You might think there was no social commentary being made when ALL the Doctors, companions, and extras were white men, but some got the strong message being sent. Notice how that changed as the world around the writers changed. Most of your nursery rhymes and fairy tales, (the motif of this episode) are heavy handed social commentary we don't recognize some hundreds of years later.

Agreed. Every Doctor has made social commentary during their run. 

I enjoyed the episode. The frog was a nice bit. Like how Douglas Adams would have done. 

[Bruinsfan]

Overall I quite liked it. Not fond of the anti-zone bits which seemed fairly pointless (and Ribbon reminded me of somewhat similar characters on Buffy and Babylon 5). But I liked the opening scenes, the mystery about the mirror, and everything that happened once they emerged into the mirrored reality. It was nice to have a somewhat quieter, more introspective episode.

[tkc]

46 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Overall I quite liked it. Not fond of the anti-zone bits which seemed fairly pointless (and Ribbon reminded me of somewhat similar characters on Buffy and Babylon 5).

We commented during the show that Ribbons was like an evil Zathras (B5 reference. Anyone else?).

[festivus]

This one was my favorite of the season. It was weird and dark and it reminded me the most of the first episode and how I hoped the season would keep that dark tone while the Doctor herself wasn't dark and angsty. I also have ended up connecting to Graham the most and this was a good episode for him. I like that Grace and his grief has not just been forgotten. Also the sandwich thing. Damn tooty, I am old and get cranky when I'm hungry.

[Eulipian 5k]

Christmas Special demanded: Graham wants to meet the Earl of Sammich!

Seriously, do Time Lords eat? (besides, Fish fingers, custard, Jammy Dodgers + biscuits...) With all his travels I at least expected the tenth would be a gourmand. Missy often joked about the companions as "snacks". The Eleventh also knew that Oswin needed eggs for a souffle, but we never hear them opine about all there is to eat in all the universes they have visited.

Or is the Doctor vegan, with the occasional handful of dirt for location purposes?

[cardigirl]

17 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Christmas Special demanded: Graham wants to meet the Earl of Sammich!

Seriously, do Time Lords eat? (besides, Fish fingers, custard, Jammy Dodgers + biscuits...) With all his travels I at least expected the tenth would be a gourmand. Missy often joked about the companions as "snacks". The Eleventh also knew that Oswin needed eggs for a souffle, but we never hear them opine about all there is to eat in all the universes they have visited.

Or is the Doctor vegan, with the occasional handful of dirt for location purposes?

The TARDIS handed her a 'biscuit' when they were reunited (a painfully slow process, her getting her TARDIS back that was). So I guess the Doctor does like biscuits.  Jelly babies. And other weird things. 

[Llywela]

In the very first season of the show, way back in 1963, the TARDIS contained a food machine, which produced little cubes of food engineered to replicate meals in flavour and nutrition - so that little cube might taste like bacon and eggs or a full roast dinner, the user could programme it for whatever they chose. I think that's about as close as the show has ever come to demonstrating what Time Lords actually eat!

I mean, the Doctor has been seen eating all manner of human food over the 55 years of the show. But that food machine is Gallifreyan, so we can read into it what we like - is it simply a practical device for space travel? Or do Time Lords prefer their food that way? Who the heck can tell!

[DanaK]

This is much more enjoyable on subsequent viewings, especially the mirror world scenes. The anti zone stuff could have been cut down to make more time for other parts

I’ve noticed the Solitract entity never confirmed what it was, though it never denied the Doctor’s theories about it. The only thing it confirmed was that it wanted a friend

It was interesting to see the Doctor alternate between empathy for the bereaved widowers and trying to be tough on them to get them to leave. Number 13 has way more empathy for others than probably many of the previous Doctors, certainly more than #12

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

In the very first season of the show, way back in 1963, the TARDIS contained a food machine, which produced little cubes of food engineered to replicate meals in flavour and nutrition - so that little cube might taste like bacon and eggs or a full roast dinner, the user could programme it for whatever they chose. I think that's about as close as the show has ever come to demonstrating what Time Lords actually eat!

I mean, the Doctor has been seen eating all manner of human food over the 55 years of the show. But that food machine is Gallifreyan, so we can read into it what we like - is it simply a practical device for space travel? Or do Time Lords prefer their food that way? Who the heck can tell!

Maybe the more the Doctor spent on other planets (and away from Gallifrey), he developed a taste for actual food. 

[Bruinsfan]

We saw 12 eating a bowl of soup/stew in that barn in "Hell Bent," so regular recognizable food must be a thing on Gallifrey even if the Time Lord aristocracy might not partake in favor of something fancier/more advanced.

[taanja]

On 12/2/2018 at 3:56 PM, Triskan said:

Well, I came here expecting (finally) a consensus on this one being the best episode of the series, as I totally loved it, but apparently it's not the case.

Well... as I said, I loved it.

I actually enjoyed it as well. Kind of felt -- old school Who to me.

[cardigirl]

A fellow Doctor Who fan that I work with asked me today how I was liking the season so far.  I said that I liked the cast just fine, but it didn't feel particularly Doctor Whoish to me, for some reason.  And he said something I hadn't heard before that I thought was interesting.  This Doctor calls herself a traveler, not a Time Lord. There's been no mention of Gallifrey.  (Unless there has been and I've missed it.) So old school or not, there some elements fundamental to Doctor Who that have been dispensed with, IMO.  

[QuantumMechanic]

15 hours ago, ae2 said:

Bad sci-fi takes that social commentary, and doesn't bother with subtlety, and doesn't take the viewer out of the story, and doesn't take the story out of the viewer, and does nothing at all to affect change in anyone.

Chris Chibnall says "Hi!"

[DavidJSnyder]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

A fellow Doctor Who fan that I work with asked me today how I was liking the season so far.  I said that I liked the cast just fine, but it didn't feel particularly Doctor Whoish to me, for some reason.  And he said something I hadn't heard before that I thought was interesting.  This Doctor calls herself a traveler, not a Time Lord. There's been no mention of Gallifrey.  (Unless there has been and I've missed it.) So old school or not, there some elements fundamental to Doctor Who that have been dispensed with, IMO.  

Time Lords didn't get named until The War Games (1969).  Gallifrey wasn't named until The Time Warriors in 1973, 10 years after the show premiered, and wasn't referred to by name until The Runaway Bride in the new series. None of that is fundamental.

Edited December 5, 2018 by DavidJSnyder

[angora]

Count me among those who loved it.  I liked the little details like Graham's pocket sandwiches and the Doctor's second granny possibly being a Zygon spy, and I got such a kick out of Ryan's first reaction to seeing the mirror:  "We'd KNOW if we were vampires, right?"  Cool that the actress playing Hanne was blind - that's a step up from Ada in "The Crimson Horror."

I thought Bradley Walsh did a terrific job in the scenes with Not-Grace.  Skeptical/wary but so desperately wanting to believe, then not being sure but being lulled into it anyway.  It was so unfair for him, and I appreciated the way the Doctor and Yaz both tried to get him to face the truth before he realized it himself when she didn't show enough concern for Ryan.  The "Grandad" moment struck the right notes for me, too.

The climax, from the Doctor's trade with the Solitract up through her final conversation with it in the collapsing mirror universe, was just amazing to me, probably my favorite sequence of the season so far.  That speech about sharing all she's seen and loved and lost was gorgeous, and I teared up when I saw how much compassion she had for this thing that could kill her.  Her possibly trapping herself in the mirror universe with the Solitract reminded me of Eleven in "The Big Bang," standing on the wrong side of the Cracks and watching them close.  In both cases, even though you obviously know the Doctor is going to get back, you still feel the weight of the sacrifice as they make their choices and see their beautiful universe closed to them.

[ganesh]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:43 PM, tennisgurl said:

Graham taking sandwiches whenever he goes on an adventure is brilliant. You never know when your gonna need a sandwich while wandering around a sentient universe! Seeing how much Graham still misses Grace, even though he has been doing an admirable job at keeping it together, was quite powerful.

He had made a crack in Rosa Parks about them always running out of time to eat, so I thought this was a fun callback. 

I did like how he was torn and then very clear - "no, your fake."

I liked that the Doctor was sad about having to leave the universe. 

This was an interesting, weird episode. I feel like there's so much complaining about everything. They've tried a lot of new stuff. They said they were. I remember all the complaining - Daleks *again*?! with all the old school villains showing up all the time.

I don't care that there's not an xmas episode. There never used to be one for 40 years. It's not like they're destroying the show. They're trying a new year's special instead. Ok. Fine. Yeah, it was fun for me to watch the special on xmas night. Now it's going to be fun to watch it on new year's day. 

16 minutes ago, angora said:

In both cases, even though you obviously know the Doctor is going to get back, you still feel the weight of the sacrifice as they make their choices and see their beautiful universe closed to them.

And that's fine. It was a good moment and JW played it well. It reminded us that she's 1500 whatever years old and still can find wonderment. 

[Joe Hellandback]

This was pretty weak, certainly  a step down from last week. It was like The Dr's Wife without the emotional resonance.  

[basil]

On 12/3/2018 at 1:45 PM, Eulipian 5k said:

There was a European tourist couple in NYC that left their infant in a baby carriage outside a bar while they had  drinks inside.

The couple said it was commonly done in their home country.; most New Yorkers wanted them arrested! Eric didn't expect any wanderers or any human threat to Henne. The only danger would have been a stray bear looking for all that food he had left for her, LOL.

Yeah, not so much a good comparison. Dad in this story was a selfish prick, who deliberately terrorized his blind child (really a young woman) so he could get his rocks off with his "not-wife". He left her alone, afraid and unprotected.

 I was in NYC when that couple left ther child "outside". Most New Yorkers not only understood, but appreciated that the parents left their child in her large carriage "outside" (on a lovely day, as it happened). They weren't having drinks at a bar, they had brunch. Their sleeping child was in their direct eyesight the entire time. They could literally reach out and touch the kid. The child and her carriage were close to the parents at all times. There was no need for that enormous carriage to be inside, clogging up the aisles.

Don't believe everything you read. Those parents were quite responsible.

Eric? Yeah, he was a dick.

Edited December 5, 2018 by basil
clarification.

[John Potts]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

I don't care that there's not an xmas episode. There never used to be one for 40 years. It's not like they're destroying the show. They're trying a new year's special instead.

There's been a New Year's Day episode before, too - the (only) Eight Doctor's adventure was set on New Year's Eve/Day (neatly aligned with its broadcast date of... mid-May). Perhaps not the greatest precedent, though!

9 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I said that I liked the cast just fine, but it didn't feel particularly Doctor Whoish to me, for some reason.

It seems much more like classic Who than modern, with the Doctor stumbling into a problem and fixing it rather than being some mythic scale Galactic force that can turn back armies. Which is "better" is mostly about the sort o Doctor you want to see (IMO).

[Dobian]

I really enjoyed this episode until....that frog.

[Llywela]

I'm surprised people were so bothered by the frog. This is a show that’s featured bubble wrap monsters, a sentient skin trampoline, killer Christmas trees, space Titanic crashing through the TARDIS walls, massive giant wasps and spiders, space fish vampires, the moon being a egg, actual Santa Claus showing up out of nowhere, killer infectious eye dust, and death emoji bots, to name but a few - but a sentient anti-universe manifesting as a frog is too weird? Nah, the lonely Solitract manifesting as a frog because it had picked the image out of Graham's mind and liked it (but keeping Grace's voice because it had none of its own) seemed pretty standard Doctor Who, to me!

It was the character stories in general I thought could have been tied together a bit more tidily in this episode, to make them truly resonate. The Solitract I had no problem with.

[basil]

Quote

I'm surprised people were so bothered by the frog.

Me too. I thought the frog was wonderfully whimsical. It made perfect sense to me that the entity would be pleased by that form, with Grace's voice, given Graham's obvious love for her.

[Eulipian 5k]

The frog wasn't the whole anti-universe it was the interface for humans to speak to ,like Grace was Graham's interface and the dead wife was Erik's "interface". Rose Tyler/Bad Wolf wasn't the Moment, she was an Interface. All those upset that the Solitract chose a frog instead of a keyboard should be glad it didn't choose Clara as the "Interface",

Would a burning bush seem more logical than a frog as a voice for an omnipotent force that created a universe?

Edited December 5, 2018 by Eulipian 5k
to vs too

[truther]

I'm loving this season and the frog is as good an example as any of why. Every episode is a comparatively low-stakes, low-key story packed with tons of interesting stuff. Like a cute little frog that speaks for an entire universe. 

I'm just so glad not to be subjected to these endless fate-of-the-universe battles royal that each tries to outdo the one before it. 

[ae2]

14 hours ago, cardigirl said:

A fellow Doctor Who fan that I work with asked me today how I was liking the season so far.  I said that I liked the cast just fine, but it didn't feel particularly Doctor Whoish to me, for some reason.  And he said something I hadn't heard before that I thought was interesting.  This Doctor calls herself a traveler, not a Time Lord. There's been no mention of Gallifrey.  (Unless there has been and I've missed it.) So old school or not, there some elements fundamental to Doctor Who that have been dispensed with, IMO.  

 

13 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Time Lords didn't get named until The War Games (1969).  Gallifrey wasn't named until The Time Warriors in 1973, 10 years after the show premiered, and wasn't referred to by name until The Runaway Bride in the new series. None of that is fundamental.

Sure, and the sonic screwdriver didn't show up until 1968, and in the 70s the Doctor spent a good chunk of episodes without the TARDIS.

Maybe once upon a time these things weren't fundamental, but like the sonic and the TARDIS, the Time Lords and Gallifrey have been a staple of DW for a long time now. At the very least, they have been an important part of New-Who, and a fundamental aspect of the Doctor's personality.

For better or worse, the new showrunner has made a deliberate effort to distinguish his show from what it has been, and I think this is a very good observation. In general, the Doctor identifies as very human right now. It's a stark contrast from Capaldi's Doctor, who barely understood humans at all. 

6 minutes ago, truther said:

I'm loving this season and the frog is as good an example as any of why. Every episode is a comparatively low-stakes, low-key story packed with tons of interesting stuff. Like a cute little frog that speaks for an entire universe. 

I'm just so glad not to be subjected to these endless fate-of-the-universe battles royal that each tries to outdo the one before it. 

To be fair, this was a fate-of-the-universe episode :)