S09.E08: Evolution

[theredhead77]

3 hours ago, heisenberg said:

And also less people are coming here to discuss.  It must say something.

I read here, a lot but I rarely post because I still enjoy this show and feel out of place in the sea of hate-watching & criticism.

That said - I totally loved the graveyard battle and the reveal of The Whisperers (I had a lucky guess a few weeks back since I don't read spoilers or the comics). The build up to the reveal, with the crew trying to figure out WTF is going on was fantastic. It was the first time in a long time I was creeped out and felt there was true peril and had no idea what was going on. It sucks Jesus died and that they didn't really give Maggie a proper exit. I want to know what happened between the camps. And FFS, just feed Negan to the Whisperers, or the zombies, or the teenagers. I don't care but the one thing I am not on an island about is Negan!

[Daltrey]

6 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

7 hours ago, JackONeill said:

But ........ would Magna and crew really do that at this point in the relationship?

They may have realised that by volunteering to rescue a valued member of a community, it would go a long way to show that they were worthy of consideration of acceptance into the Hilltop family.

This is literally what happened.

Michonne: What the hell are you doing here?!

Magna: Earning our keep.

[AngelaHunter]

38 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I don't care but the one thing I am not on an island about is Negan!

Well, we've been promised (or threatened with) MORE NEGAN. That might have a negative impact on your viewing pleasure.:(

[A-Lo]

Not for nothing, but I was able to watch The Real Housewives of Orange County reunion during the commercials for The Walking Dead.  Not that I'm recommending any of you follow suit and kill off even more brain cells.  I'm just pointing out that the commercial breaks are loooong…..and may be a partial reason for the drop in viewership.

[theredhead77]

42 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Well, we've been promised (or threatened with) MORE NEGAN. That might have a negative impact on your viewing pleasure.:(

I used the time Negan spent yammering to brush and floss.

[AngelaHunter]

27 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I used the time Negan spent yammering to brush and floss.

In the time spent on Negan's yammering a person could get a root canal. Probably more enjoyable too.

[Artsda]

Jesus. :(

[CletusMusashi]

7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Father P wants to keep his options open and remain a playboy bachelor. So many desperate women, so little time. Why should he tie himself down?

Yeah, I though tying him down was DumpsterDiva's job.

7 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I think Herschel gave them a li'l somethin' ceremony-wise. But I think in the ZA anyone can become an ordained minister on the inter-not ;)

I'm pretty sure Pastafarian ceremonies are legal on Spaghetti Tuesaday.

[Iguessnot]

11 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

I noticed that too, Enid didn't look much older that she did in season 8 . I was guessing she was portrayed  as being 17 or so in S8?   It doesn't seem unreasonable if she's 23 or so to have a man in her life.   Henry is what, 16? Did he really think he would have a shot at Enid?  

The heart wants what the heart wants.

[dvil]

Aww, c'mon. Sure, Jesus wasn't expecting a walker to dodge an attack but he had ninja skills to take out living combatants.

Years into the ZA, despite being aware of dangers like the old Saviors, kids are still sneaking into the woods and playing with pet walkers?

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

The heart wants what the heart wants.

Assuming the heart is the organ in play, that is....

[Daltrey]

3 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Assuming the heart is the organ in play, that is....

Are you suggesting another of Henry's organ's may be interested in Enid.....like maybe his pancreas? ;) 

[Nashville]

17 minutes ago, Daltrey said:

Are you suggesting another of Henry's organ's may be interested in Enid.....like maybe his pancreas? ;) 

Well... what I was thinking of IS related to part of the endocrine system, so you’re getting warmerrrrr....

Edited November 27, 2018 by Nashville

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Mouth organ...  Not the subject but, boy I miss Craig Ferguson!

@heisenberg - just for you.  :>

[Daltrey]

10 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Well... what I was thinking of IS related to part of the endocrine system, so you’re getting warmerrrrr....

LMAO! hmmm....I guess I'll have to think a little ......harder.

Quote

I loved it when the walker bit Aaron’s prosthetic arm. Really show?

Actually, I thought that was one of the most sensible things in the episode.  Aaron has learned to use the prosthetic to his advantage: throw the fake arm up, let the walker go for that, and headspike it before it figures out it’s tasting tinfoil.  :)

More serious note, I forgot to applaud you for noting that; I thought the same thing.

[Butless]

11 hours ago, CountryCrazy said:

I’m probably in the minority but I freaking hate Negan and really think  he is a waste ! He really  brings nothing worthwhile-to  the the series and I’m really tired of his ongoing and boring tirades 😡can he just be dead ? 

He's legit the only goodlooking man left on the show now. I've mastered the trick of looking at his lips move but not hearing anything that come out of them.

[Butless]

10 hours ago, Nashville said:

Just curious; during the Moonshine Mischief fiasco, anybody else get the impression Addy was about a heartbeat away from jumping Henry right then and there?  

Of course - looking at the alternatives (Rodney and Gage), Addy could hardly be blamed....

Who gives a fuck about Addy . Ugly thing hangs out with cat torturing psychobrats

[IDreamofJoaquin]

We had to sacrifice Jesus to save Eugene?  Really?   I don't know where they think they can keep taking the show.  We've lost too many main characters in so little time. I don't think Danai Gurira will be on very much longer either.   I want to keep watching....I wish I knew when they would just wrap it up. 

[Butless]

9 hours ago, Nashville said:

One thought which had crossed my mind was that - for Addy at least - the ZA may have been a blessing in disguise.  

Yeah, there’s hordes of the undead looking for any opportunity to rip you apart and eat you, sure.  On the Hilltop Post-ZA Teen Scene, though, Addy is the belle of the ball - whereas in the pre-ZA world alternative she’d be enduring high school, eating her lunches at a table for one and being tormented by the popular Mean Girls in the locker room after gym class.

Reminds me of some of the dive bars in Anchorage, where the males outnumber the females 11-to-1.

No such thing as an unpopular girl THERE.  :)

Tell us the story of the dive bars in Anchorage. Anything's more interesting than this one.

[Butless]

9 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

No, and neither is Rosita.  I never got the feeling they inferred that with her.

No...but they were definitely always up to something no good with this character.  She was a caricature of a lusty Latina, with the big hoops and the hot pants and cleavage. Cringeworthy. As if anyone would have exposed that much skin to bugs or suprise-attack walkers. Kirkman really is a gross little nerd that grew up to be a gross big nerd.

The bigger takeaway here is that MOTHERHOOD IS SCARED! {grasps pearls!!}  Doesnt matter if it's 6 or 7 years past knowing your babydaddy has kicked the bucket. You will NOT besmirch the memory of those saintly men. Like Rick, who waited a full year before lusting after some Alexandrian hausfrau and plotted the demise of her husband, so he could give Coral a new mama It was all for CORAL!  Both Mich & Magg knew their BFs a fraction of the time they were alive in the ZA, according to this timeline. It makes no sense for them to be single, in light of this fictional universe.

And  as has been said, you dont need to be religious to marry anyone. Gabe himself could have ordained another to officiate his wedding, if that were the case.  The point is, Im sure a man of the cloth preaches monogamy, and Im sure that he's supposed to be held to the highest standard, when it comes to all that.  And he's been banging a lot more than the gate, if you get my drift.  Of all the people this show has made me imagine a character having so much sex, I would never have guessed it's be him. And Im sort of angry about that, too. It was bad enough having to actually see Abraham in them. I cant believe that they that trash woman go down on the preacher. I miss a lot, because its on, but im not avidly watching it, so much as scoffing at it when im distracted.

[Butless]

8 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Can someone tell me why snooze-inducing characters like Eugene and Tara and Rosita and Gabriel and Enid are still alive?  Good agents or bad writing?

Because they dont get paid much, in comparison to the original characters,  and that allows TPTB to give themselves even MORE money and just higher raises for them , all around. YAAAAY, Greed !!!

3 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

The heart wants what the heart wants.

And the delusional ought to be locked up.

[Butless]

2 hours ago, dvil said:

Aww, c'mon. Sure, Jesus wasn't expecting a walker to dodge an attack but he had ninja skills to take out living combatants.

Years into the ZA, despite being aware of dangers like the old Saviors, kids are still sneaking into the woods and playing with pet walkers?

Id almost give my left nut for Carol to have to make Henry look at the flowers.

 

Why do they kill off Shiva, and leave us with HENRY! Carol should be calling Shiva the princess!!

 

Also theres NOT enough Jerry. There's NEVER enough Jerry.

[Butless]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

@heisenberg - just for you.  :>

Thank you!! Omg I was cry-ing !

[OoohMaggie]

9 hours ago, Daltrey said:

This is literally what happened.

Michonne: What the hell are you doing here?!

Magna: Earning our keep.

Cool, I’ll have to watch again I completely missed that, I was probably in ‘Jesus shock’ 

[OoohMaggie]

12 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

But they have a history of teasing the mystery and never following through on it.

The pacing is better, and I liked the showdown at the cemetery.  Of course to get there, we had to watch drunken teen dumbasses throwing ropes on zombies and peeing on them for shits and giggles.  Plus Tara’s dumb ass is probably in charge which fuck no.  Oh, and that idiot Negan is on the loose.

With the start of Kang’s reign I was giving the show a fresh start, not weighing her down with ‘The Gimp’s’ baggage. We’ll see if she follows up on the story, as she has promised to do.

[theredhead77]

6 hours ago, dvil said:

Years into the ZA, despite being aware of dangers like the old Saviors, kids are still sneaking into the woods and playing with pet walkers?

Teens will be teens complete idiots who think they are invincible (even after friends die), go along with group-think and make poor decisions. 

[jcin617]

Aaron just can't catch a break with boyfriends, either current or potential.   

[watch2much]

13 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Can someone tell me why snooze-inducing characters like Eugene and Tara and Rosita and Gabriel and Enid are still alive?  Good agents or bad writing?

It might mean bad agents....perhaps the ones that are killed off are costing the show more money and/or they are more talented and have more opportunities waiting????

[ClareWalks]

48 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

Aaron just can't catch a break with boyfriends, either current or potential.   

He is the new Black Widow (Sasha and Rick were the OGs).

[RedDelicious]

18 hours ago, Nashville said:

Actually, I thought that was one of the most sensible things in the episode.  Aaron has learned to use the prosthetic to his advantage: throw the fake arm up, let the walker go for that, and headspike it before it figures out it’s tasting tinfoil.  :)

That’s true :) And anything that gets Aaron more screen time is okay by me!

[OoohMaggie]

Making of E8,

[JackONeill]

Someday someone will write a book about this show. Either the show has incredibly bad luck or TOTB really don't know what they're doing. I am fully aware that other shows hire actors only to lose them in a short period of time. Sometimes they're fired; sometimes, they move on because they've figured out that what they were "sold" isn't the show that's being made. (Yes, that's a simplification. There can be many reasons. But ahyt's not the point of this post.) 

I also know some of this could be attributed to "Well, this is a zombie show, so people are going to die." But my point is there's something else happening here. (And by the way, I get what happened with the actor who played Heath. He got a new show. And Sacha of course.) But look at everyone else. With some characters, you can say their story-arc was over. Maybe Beth fell into that camp.

But instead of going through every one person by person, look at Jesus. He was an intriguing character. His introduction to the show was super. He was someone who could give Rick AND Daryl (together) a run for their money. He presented intriguing things. But then he all but disappeared. To me—and this is just me—after Abe and Glenn bought it, I expected Jesus to rise up to the head of the ranks. Someone like that was badly needed. But no. Even though he was involved in the first raid of the Saviors he sort of, again, disappeared into the wallpaper.

Then he became a pacifist or some such. But all along he never stood up to Gregory. Jesus was clearly liked and respected in Hilltop, and he knew people wanted him to step up, but he didn't. But whether you care for this part of the story or not, the really insulting thing is that it wasn't really SHOWN. It was more like we were just told all this. (Sure there were some scenes, but I think you know what I mean. All in all, Jesus said fewer words than Negan's left nut.)

What happened? Look at us now. We're down to just a few of the A-team, a bunch of newbies, and—heaven help us—a bunch of millennials. And none of them are all that compelling!!!

What the hell has happened to this show (not that it was great, but c'mon)?

[OoohMaggie]

7 hours ago, Butless said:

I've mastered the trick of looking at his lips move but not hearing anything that come out of them.

Ssssshhhhhhhh, that’s an age old secret passed down from father to son, to give him a head start into married life! 🤫

[LadyMustang65]

So so disappointed in this show right now.  And a bit pissed.  We've lost so many great characters, and now we lose Jesus, too?  With all the talk about him being a great leader if he'd stop fighting it, I was so looking forward to him coming into his own as the head of the Hilltop crew.  Instead, they kill him off.  :(  So not fair.  

Am I mis-remembering or didn't the riders from Hilltop tell the group last week that they were going to let Hilltop know Michonne was coming?  Because I was completely unprepared for all that running and hiding when the group was spotted because I was sure they already knew they were on the way.  

Negan is loose again.  I was so expecting someone to be lying in wait for him to kill him as he got out of the building.  But no.  A character I would like to see die is still around.  Ugh.  I love JDM but I despise Negan.  And I have zero desire to watch him try to become "The Big Bad" again.  Your time is up, old man!  Maggie should have killed him when she had the chance.  He's the ultimate "scream" movie beast - no matter what you do to it, it just keeps getting back up again.  Blech!

And I'm kind of pissed because I feel like we've missed what would have been the most interesting storyline - seeing how the communities got to where they are.  I am beyond fed up with all the teasing about it - after everything they've been through, it's hard for me to imagine just what could have come between them like that.  And since they've told us so very little - just a few obscure references to some "decisions" - it doesn't make sense but at the same time, it feels like THAT is the story they should have been telling us.  Maybe at some point we'll get to see it in flashbacks?  But right now it seems like the far more interesting story.  I was shocked when they made Michonne and her group throw out their weapons before entering Hilltop and being told they'd get them back when they left.  That smacks of there having been a fight between the communities at some point.  Again, lots of questions but no answers.  Not even really hints at answers.  And the nagging feeling that there's a good chance we'll never really know what happened and why but we'll see a reconciliation as they fight the whisperers (and probably that idiot Negan again), which leads to a stronger feeling that that is the story they should have been telling us now.

I do like the new characters mostly.  Except maybe Magna?  She kinda seems like Michonne-light or something.  And I know I am in a minority of probably one in saying that I like Tara.  Or at least she doesn't grate on me the way she seems to on most.  She's one character that has been steadily growing and seems to kind of come into her own as a good right-hand man.  

And I did love the whole hunt for Eugene and the whispering walkers (although I could not understand most of what they were saying, even after rewinding several times, and by the time I thought to turn on the closed-captioning, it was too late - so if anyone knows what the walker said to Jesus as he was killing him, I'd love to know.  Thank you in advance!) and the creepy foggy cemetery.  That was really good, I thought.

I hate these long breaks, though.  What did they say - it will be back in March or something?  By then I'll be watching going who the hell is that at every other character.  Speaking of characters, if they want to develop some of the peripheral characters more, I vote for them to bring the woman who left Hilltop with Carol into a bigger role.  I have no idea what her name even is, but we've always liked her, and she seems like a character that could be fleshed out more.  And, as someone else mentioned, we need more Jerry.  

[OoohMaggie]

44 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

What the hell has happened to this show (not that it was great, but c'mon)?

Yeah, killing Jesus was a bad move, I know he wasn’t very popular (don’t know why) but he had so much potential, yet another wasted character, on top of Maggie and Rick hitting the road they get rid of him, crazy, and yet Tara and Rosita live on, WTF?

[AngelaHunter]

22 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

 Henry is what, 16? Did he really think he would have a shot at Enid?  

Right. He should set his horny, sweaty little sights on a woman much older. There must be a few cougars still hanging around.

21 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

so if anyone knows what the walker said to Jesus as he was killing him, I'd love to know. 

I believe it was, "You are in a place you don't belong." Whatever the hell that means.

[LydiaMoon1]

3 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

And I'm kind of pissed because I feel like we've missed what would have been the most interesting storyline - seeing how the communities got to where they are.  I am beyond fed up with all the teasing about it - after everything they've been through, it's hard for me to imagine just what could have come between them like that.  And since they've told us so very little - just a few obscure references to some "decisions" - it doesn't make sense but at the same time, it feels like THAT is the story they should have been telling us.  Maybe at some point we'll get to see it in flashbacks?  But right now it seems like the far more interesting story.  I was shocked when they made Michonne and her group throw out their weapons before entering Hilltop and being told they'd get them back when they left.  That smacks of there having been a fight between the communities at some point.  Again, lots of questions but no answers. 

Either they haven't yet figured out the details of this rift or they're saving the details for these epic spinoffs and TV movies they plan on making.  Even if I thought the writers were still capable delivering great, original storytelling, they're too hamstrung by AMC's mandates and money schemes to actually deliver. AMC's greed now drives every aspect of TWD production. They're not trying to give you quality TV. They're trying to sell you a new streaming service.

[RedDelicious]

The Whisperers scare THEE HELL out of me. As soon as that one female turned her head in the trio's direction my blood ran cold. Henry having a crush on Enid is like Kevin Arnold and Miss Hassenfuss. I think they gave Enid a Maggie haircut to make her look older.  I'm still completely freaked out by The Whisperers. And sadly, the one they killed was hot.

Edited November 27, 2018 by RedDelicious

[riverheightsnancy]

The issue with Jesus is similar to how they wasted Morgan's storyline as well. I always wondered about Jesus' ninja like skills when he first met Rick and Daryl and when he broke out of jail and into Rick's house. I assumed they wanted to keep it a mystery and make us wonder. Sometimes it is better NOT to tell.  But then they never showed us anything with him and his fighting skills at all. They never developed him at all.  Most times he was a lookout or not there for fighting. I thought that was purposeful, but now he is a ninja. When he essentially stayed away from direct confrontation. I really hated that they suddenly focus on a person (that never has been a focus) right before they die. They need to step away from the "Survivor" editing technique. As a side note, I think Morgan is more fleshed out in FTWD. I bet they are working towards the big combining of those shows, but to what end? What does that add?

[LadyMustang65]

6 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I believe it was, "You are in a place you don't belong." Whatever the hell that means.

Thank you.  We caught something about a place you don't belong, but we couldn't make out anything from the beginning, so it made no sense.  Not that it makes any more sense knowing the whole thing.  Unless they simply meant they shouldn't be out walking around in the woods?

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

Someday someone will write a book about this show. Either the show has incredibly bad luck or TOTB really don't know what they're doing. I am fully aware that other shows hire actors only to lose them in a short period of time. Sometimes they're fired; sometimes, they move on because they've figured out that what they were "sold" isn't the show that's being made. (Yes, that's a simplification. There can be many reasons. But ahyt's not the point of this post.) 

I also know some of this could be attributed to "Well, this is a zombie show, so people are going to die." But my point is there's something else happening here. (And by the way, I get what happened with the actor who played Heath. He got a new show. And Sacha of course.) But look at everyone else. With some characters, you can say their story-arc was over. Maybe Beth fell into that camp.

But instead of going through every one person by person, look at Jesus. He was an intriguing character. His introduction to the show was super. He was someone who could give Rick AND Daryl (together) a run for their money. He presented intriguing things. But then he all but disappeared. To me—and this is just me—after Abe and Glenn bought it, I expected Jesus to rise up to the head of the ranks. Someone like that was badly needed. But no. Even though he was involved in the first raid of the Saviors he sort of, again, disappeared into the wallpaper.

Then he became a pacifist or some such. But all along he never stood up to Gregory. Jesus was clearly liked and respected in Hilltop, and he knew people wanted him to step up, but he didn't. But whether you care for this part of the story or not, the really insulting thing is that it wasn't really SHOWN. It was more like we were just told all this. (Sure there were some scenes, but I think you know what I mean. All in all, Jesus said fewer words than Negan's left nut.)

What happened? Look at us now. We're down to just a few of the A-team, a bunch of newbies, and—heaven help us—a bunch of millennials. And none of them are all that compelling!!!

What the hell has happened to this show (not that it was great, but c'mon)?

I remember when Jesus (the character) arrived.  There was so much fanfare, it was almost like when Michonne appeared.  I don't read the comics (sorry, GRAPHIC NOVELS), so I didn't know who Jesus was other than he was openly gay and was a badass.  So I was expecting a lot.  What we got was the 'Yakkety Sax' chase scene and then...nothing.  I kept waiting for Jesus to live up to the hype but he never did.  I thought that part of it might be down to the limitations of the actor but not being able to act never stopped TWD from putting a character front and centre before (hi Allanah!). 

It turns out that the actor was just as fed-up as the viewing public.  The new development is that he's said so.  I don't think any actor has been so frank about wanting to get the fuck out of Dodge.  Some actors have been vocal about NOT wanting to leave but nobody ever said, 'I'm bored, kill me off'.  To add to the already pungent shit sauce tptb have created, they were forced to issue a statement explaining wtf happened to Maggie.  What was interesting was it wasn't a joint statement from AMC and Lauren:  it was ALL AMC.

I've been begging for a tell-all for years.  I can't wait to read the actor who played T-Dogg and Chad Coleman's chapters.  I wouldn't be surprised if it got turned into a movie.  Maybe Gimple can get a job as coffee-boy.

 

Edited to add:  I agree with @LadyMustang65 that Magna appears to be a Michonne-Lite character.  Which means that the assholes that be know how much they've gutted the ORIGINAL.

Edited November 27, 2018 by mightysparrow

[Daltrey]

48 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

what the walker said

Exact quote is "You are where you do not belong." According to Kirkman on TD, it could mean something as simple as their turf but the way he said it I'm guessing there's more to it, at least philosophically.

They said it returns early February, the tenth IIRC. Strangely enough, IMDB has a picture of Abraham in place for that episode.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

? Look at us now. We're down to just a few of the A-team, a bunch of newbies, and—heaven help us—a bunch of millennials. And none of them are all that compelling!!!

You're going to eat those words when next season opens with Henry and his post-adolescent gang sneaking out to smoke a stolen cigar behind the barn. Punishments in the form of monolgues and parables will be meted out. Compelling, yes it will be!

 

37 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

AMC's greed now drives every aspect of TWD production. They're not trying to give you quality TV. They're trying to sell you a new streaming service.

Yes. Those dollars signs take precedence over even a pretense of producing anything of quality.

[rab01]

I don't get why so many people are saying that Enid is too good for Henry to dream of having a chance with.  When they introduced her as Carl's love interest people here were calling her "the dog-faced girl" so when did she suddenly get put on a pedestal?  It makes total sense that a 16-year-old would have a crush on a slightly older teenager and it makes just as much sense that she'd already have a boyfriend. I hate Henry because he's "not-Carl" and I'm gonna resent Judith a lot for also playing a lot of "not-Carl" scenes but the interplay seemed perfectly reasonable to me.  

The "not-Carl" problem is, for me, the huge problem with the show. There are big chunks of storyline being put in the hands of replacement characters, rather than new stories for new characters.  The scene in the hut was just a f'ing replay of the Alexandrian teenagers and Carl.  Just rerun all of Henry's scenes with Carl in it - the Enid thing has a weight of missed chances to it, the walker ring-toss now has Carl thinking - how did we create another bunch of ASZhats?; the jail scene can get extra beats because Carl has earned the right to be treated like an adult even if he's just a teen ...  

And the not-Carl related problem of all the new cast entering and old-cast departures is not that they give time to new cast members.  The show does this every time.  We all complained when we got episodes devoted to Abe and his crew but on rewatch, Abe's backstory episode is one of my favorites.  The problem is that the show has wasted tons of character development time on TERRIBLE actors and/or characters lately.  Alana Masterson is a complete charisma black hole on this show.  Negan has been a show-killing misfire.   The actress who plays Rosita is almost inhumanly gorgeous but they've done nothing interesting with her ever. They spent a million years of screen time on various Saviors but did they keep ANY of the interesting ones around?  TPTB need to keep introducing new characters but they need to quickly realize which ones are clicking and which aren't ... 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Someday someone will write a book about this show. Either the show has incredibly bad luck or TOTB really don't know what they're doing. I am fully aware that other shows hire actors only to lose them in a short period of time. Sometimes they're fired; sometimes, they move on because they've figured out that what they were "sold" isn't the show that's being made. (Yes, that's a simplification. There can be many reasons. But ahyt's not the point of this post.) 

I also know some of this could be attributed to "Well, this is a zombie show, so people are going to die." But my point is there's something else happening here. (And by the way, I get what happened with the actor who played Heath. He got a new show. And Sacha of course.) But look at everyone else. With some characters, you can say their story-arc was over. Maybe Beth fell into that camp.

But instead of going through every one person by person, look at Jesus. He was an intriguing character. His introduction to the show was super. He was someone who could give Rick AND Daryl (together) a run for their money. He presented intriguing things. But then he all but disappeared. To me—and this is just me—after Abe and Glenn bought it, I expected Jesus to rise up to the head of the ranks. Someone like that was badly needed. But no. Even though he was involved in the first raid of the Saviors he sort of, again, disappeared into the wallpaper.

Then he became a pacifist or some such. But all along he never stood up to Gregory. Jesus was clearly liked and respected in Hilltop, and he knew people wanted him to step up, but he didn't. But whether you care for this part of the story or not, the really insulting thing is that it wasn't really SHOWN. It was more like we were just told all this. (Sure there were some scenes, but I think you know what I mean. All in all, Jesus said fewer words than Negan's left nut.)

What happened? Look at us now. We're down to just a few of the A-team, a bunch of newbies, and—heaven help us—a bunch of millennials. And none of them are all that compelling!!!

What the hell has happened to this show (not that it was great, but c'mon)?

This show's writing was really good the first 2 or 3 seasons. Ever since Herschel got killed, this show started going downhill and things getting dragged out. Honestly, the Negan storyline has ruined the series, at this point, many fans have either left of don't care about keeping up with the show. 

[Butless]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Right. He should set his horny, sweaty little sights on a woman much older. There must be a few cougars still hanging around.

 

Hey , Henry;  Brett Butler is a sure thing.

[ClareWalks]

17 minutes ago, rab01 said:

I don't get why so many people are saying that Enid is too good for Henry to dream of having a chance with.  When they introduced her as Carl's love interest people here were calling her "the dog-faced girl" so when did she suddenly get put on a pedestal?  It makes total sense that a 16-year-old would have a crush on a slightly older teenager and it makes just as much sense that she'd already have a boyfriend.

But she's not a teenager. She was a teenager before the 6-year time jump and is now in her early 20s, maybe 22 or 23. That is way too old to be interested in a 16-year-old boy who is not particularly mature for his age. She appears to have trained as a doctor in the time gap and now has a career. It's not about whether she's "too good" for him, they're just at very different stages of life.

[Butless]

3 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Someday someone will write a book about this show. Either the show has incredibly bad luck or TOTB really don't know what they're doing.

What the hell has happened to this show (not that it was great, but c'mon)?

I think , at base, it's greed. TPTB also seem to be in an echo chamber where they self-congratulate themselves on their genius status. When they see the  mass following, and all the people at the cons, they mistake it for worship. Simply put, it has gone to their heads. When you've got Kirkman bloviating on Talking Dead, and Scott Gimple on there behaving like he thinks he is the funniest thing since , who know?, Louie CK??,  you can see how massive their egos got inflated, over th e course of this show.

The blame, lies at their feet, ultimately. Those are the  two that sign off on everything in this universe. Id like to see the disgusting assholes who kept promoting Gimple. We can see how the product they've given us has been substandard and broken. All they saw must have dollar signs. How much can we ring out of them.How can we prolong the gravy train. Etc. They had a potential goose egg for much longer, but they shat the pond full and killed the goose.

I would like to hear the actors speak for themselves, too. I think they dicked the Maggie actress around, and treated the Jesus actor badly because he spoke up about the inconsistencies in his character. He always seemed to be sarcastically laughing at an in-joke when certain things were broached on TD. I think they were passive-aggressive to them in the way they characters were handled, especially in the Jesus case. They want Maggie to come back. I think they favor whoever kisses their asses, Gimple especially, and are shitty to those who don't. I would love to hear Lincoln's take on Gimple. He truly did not seem to be on the page about Carl dying. And the way the Carl actor was treated was abominable.

You just know there are entertainment reporters out there with sharpened pencils, so to speak, and who are just waiting to jump on this story. There have  got to have been plenty of grumblings over the years, that came their way. They just need on the record sources.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Can someone tell me why snooze-inducing characters like Eugene and Tara and Rosita and Gabriel and Enid are still alive?  Good agents or bad writing?

Because they dont get paid much, in comparison to the original characters,  and that allows TPTB to give themselves even MORE money and just higher raises for them , all around. YAAAAY, Greed !!!

Is that it? I wonder about this myself. I wonder if these characters are more interesting in the comics. The show seems to have this weird, warped perception of which characters the audience cares about. I have never cared about Gabriel, ever. I find Eugene annoying as hell and Rosita has always been sort of a non-entity to me. There's no way on earth I'm going to follow a show about these boring, half-developed characters.

Quote

But instead of going through every one person by person, look at Jesus. He was an intriguing character. His introduction to the show was super. He was someone who could give Rick AND Daryl (together) a run for their money. He presented intriguing things. But then he all but disappeared. To me—and this is just me—after Abe and Glenn bought it, I expected Jesus to rise up to the head of the ranks. Someone like that was badly needed. But no. Even though he was involved in the first raid of the Saviors he sort of, again, disappeared into the wallpaper.

Then he became a pacifist or some such. But all along he never stood up to Gregory. Jesus was clearly liked and respected in Hilltop, and he knew people wanted him to step up, but he didn't. But whether you care for this part of the story or not, the really insulting thing is that it wasn't really SHOWN. It was more like we were just told all this. (Sure there were some scenes, but I think you know what I mean. All in all, Jesus said fewer words than Negan's left nut.)

I don't know why they never did anything more with Jesus but I think the show thinks killing off big, important main characters proves how "daring" they are. That was fine in the first few seasons where "anyone" can be killed off so the audience is never complacent but once you whittle the main cast down to just two or three original characters left, you need to maintain some stability. People follow the story because they are invested in the characters. That's why the audience dwindles over time - they keep killing off the characters the audience cares about. Worse, the show is trying to replace those characters with others that are far less interesting.

I've said since day one, the day they kill off Rick, the story is over. It was his story to begin with. This just isn't the same story anymore, it's a spin-off.

[rab01]

Just now, ClareWalks said:

But she's not a teenager. She was a teenager before the 6-year time jump and is now in her early 20s, maybe 22 or 23. That is way too old to be interested in a 16-year-old boy who is not particularly mature for his age. She appears to have trained as a doctor in the time gap and now has a career. It's not about whether she's "too good" for him, they're just at very different stages of life.

The actress is 19; the actor playing Henry is 17.  The character was supposed to be Carl's age before the time jump, which was not Chandler's age but a LOT younger (13-14-ish). I'd guess that if the show ever says, the character will be called 19.  As for careers, absolutely she's more established - she's the chief medical person at Hilltop -- but Henry isn't a nobody kid; he's the chief mechanic at the Kingdom just not well enough trained for their needs so he stepped back to apprentice.  (Also, there's something weird going on at the Kingdom that implies that it's doing worse than Hilltop or Alexandria.)  I'd agree that they're at different enough stages that she'd be not interested in him but I still say they are close enough that it's a very natural interest for him.  Also, his reaction to seeing the situation was pretty naturally done.