S03.E09: The Beginning Is the End Is the Beginning

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think many writers are stuck in the mode that most middle class women choose to work as some sort of feminist statement (lower income women almost always had to keep working). The truth is that now a days women work because they have to in order to keep the household financially viable. Kate is very fortunate that she does not have any finanical issues before and after marriage. Her very sucessful brother gave her a job as his assistant and her husband seems more than able to support both of them in pricey California and even with expensive fertitlity treatments. The fact that Kate can not give up her silly, probably bringing very little money Adele O' Gram job for a couple of months to keep the baby that she so desperately wanted safe is ridiculous, "because she can not just not do nothing", when in truth she has almost done nothing for a couple of decades. Yes, she lost her father at a young age, but both of her brothers have had incredible financial success, despite the same tragedy. I think Kate thinks that her grief is more sacred because she was her father's special princess. It is almost like she never appreciates her good fortune because she always has to be the victim in her own life. Again, this is more against the writing than the character.

 

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Black women have worked since we were brought to this country. We had no choice; that was the point. That's why Alice Walker coined the term "womanism," because the whole "women want to work outside the home!" tenet of feminism didn't apply to Black women. What's always weird to me about working vs. SAHMs on TV is that on TV, the working woman is the only working woman she knows. In my social circle, I've known people who stopped working when they had kids but it's always been because day care costs a grip and it ate up the lower-earning-person's salary, so it made financial sense for that person to stop working (I do have a few SAHD friends, it's not just women). It wasn't out of a desire to stay home, and they usually go back to work, or try to, once kids are in school. Maybe they could hang on with one but if they had a second child before the first was about three, it made more sense for them to stop working. 

And yeah, if they want me to believe that it would be too hard/out of character for Kate to sit around until the baby is born, they ... need to start over with developing her character, TBH. They've gone out of their way to show that Randall literally works himself sick. Kevin seems to be the one who stumbles into success but works hard at opportunities when he gets them. Working on a sitcom is hard work that requires long hours and he was shown to work hard on the movie. I think he's the kind of person who needs to be doing something all the time (wasn't he bored in sobriety just sitting around after rehab?). Kate hasn't been shown to do any of that. When she got rejected to be a backup singer, the guy said he could tell she hadn't been putting in the work - going to open mics, singing anywhere and everywhere. And from what I can tell she still hasn't.

Yes to both of you! My grandparents were immigrants and both of my grandmothers HAD to work to support their families (as did both of my grandfathers, duh). They did not have the option of being SAHMs. My mom started working when she was 14. She worked at a hardware store after school and on the weekends to help support her family financially.

These days, it's difficult to have only one person in the family who works, partly because the cost of living and real estate are so high. A friend of mine who lived in LA was making about $100K so he decided to start looking for a place to buy. He ended up staying in his rented apartment because the only places that he could afford on his single salary were rundown places in neighborhoods that were much less safe/desirable than where he could afford to live by renting. That's how crazy real estate in California is these days.

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I always pick something from their registry and add some books that I love (Sandra Boynton's Hippopotamus board books are some of my go-tos; my mom always gives The Sneetches by Dr. Seuss). Because then I know it's something they want/need and every baby needs books. :)

I'm 5 years older than KK&R and my mom worked always. Full time (office job) until my brother was born, part time (retail/food service) while we were young (evenings before we were both in school, so she left after my dad got home, and then morning/early afternoon so she was home after school), then a full time office job again, once I was old enough to be home alone after school if necessary (my brother was usually home, though). I don't know how much her income was really needed; they were fortunate to not have to worry about daycare, but I'm sure she didn't want to spend all day and night in the house with little kids, either. She's a fairly social person (not a trait I inherited); I can see her wanting a job just for her own sanity.

I was born in 1975; a very quick google suggests finding out the sex wasn't really common until at least the 80s. But my mom was having a girl and that was all there was to it. She* didn't even have a boy name picked out (she already had her boy, you see, exactly according to plan). I shudder to think how my life would have turned out if I'd had the audacity to be a boy. 😉

A classic teddy bear used to be my go-to baby shower gift. These days I also like classic childhood books. I know neither of these will be used right away, but they're good for boys or girls and something that both the parents and future kid will (hopefully) cherish. I know everyone loves those diaper cakes but who is going to look back in ten years with a dreamy look and say, "Remember that diaper cake?"

My mom did the same thing. She worked full time until she had kids. She worked part time when we were very little. As we got older, she was able to work more hours. When my aunt (my mom's sister) had her first kid (about ten years later), she was faced with whether to go back to work after her maternity leave. Unfortunately, she found out that daycare where she lived in the DC area would end up costing more than she got paid as a middle school teacher, so she would actually end up losing money if she went back to work. She wanted to go back to work but ended up staying at home with the baby until her husband was able to get a job elsewhere (and then she went back to work because childcare cost less there).

My sister was born in the mid-80s and they didn't do anything official to find out if she would be a boy or a girl. But my mom's OB/GYN insisted that she was having a boy, as did everyone else ("I can tell by the way you're carrying that it's a boy"). My mom figured that the OB/GYN knew what he was talking about and took him at his word so my parents only picked boy names and bought a bunch of boy stuff for the baby. Then my sister popped out. They had NO girl names picked out so they were flummoxed about what to name her!

[LakeLover]

10 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

Delaware just isn’t that far from southern Jersey/Philly. As long as the Delaware Memorial Bridge is open, maybe an hour to Wilmington. Proud UD grad here. 

Fellow Fightin' Blue Hen right here :) I drove to UD from Long Island, and it's a 3 hour trip. It's a breeze from New Jersey. Now, Alpine, NJ to Philly, I can see people being up at arms about Randall running for office - Bergen County is a suburb of Manhattan, not in the greater metropolitan area of Philly. That would be like someone living in Benton Harbor, Michigan running for councilman in Chicago, Illinois. As others have said, there are plenty of things you can do to help a community, including attending a council meeting to nudge the councilman to do something

I had my babies from '85 - '92. Never knew the sex, as I had only one ultrasound and unless they could see a penis visible (impossible for me, I had three girls), you didn't know. WRT Kate betraying Tess, it would be easy to clue Rebecca in on Tess' need to have someone to listen and still retain her confidentiality. "Mom, I had a great time visiting for Thanksgiving and got to know Tess a bit better. She's changing and growing up, and I know she could always use someone to spend time with her and listen to her, especially with Beth looking for a job and Randall's campaign. Thanks for being a listening ear." Ta. Da. And ditto on cringing at "No matter what."  A simple "We love you, and we're glad you can come talk to us whenever you want or need to" would suffice.

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

Clearly, opinions vary.  Beth is my favorite character on this show, and has been from the beginning.  I don't see "unpleasant personality" with her at all, so I found your comment interesting.  I think she's loving and smart and witty and patient (VERY patient!), and devoted to her marriage and fiercely dedicated to their family.  She knows how to soothe and calm Randall, and she knows how to light a fire under him when that's what he needs to help him succeed.  He responds to her very well, especially when her nurturing side comes out.

IMO Randall clearly was in the wrong.  He not only very deliberately chose the election over his family, but he broke a promise that he had made to Beth.  Family and their marriage is supposed to be a priority - He's always been clear about that.  Up until now.  So she has every right to be angry, and she handled it all very calmly.  He had promised to pull out of the campaign if it ever became an issue for them, and he broke that promise.

Also Randall is motivated by a misguided attempt to carryon William’s legacy. After, he got clean, William was a very nice man, who is played by a very charming actor. However, he was not some sort of social justice crusader. He was a very ordinary man that Randall has built up in his head as some type of superhero. Otherwise, why the hell is Randall not concerned with all the underserved communities in his own state?

[sasha206]

14 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think Beth listed Deja and Tess, him out campaigning, her looking for a job and them being financially stretched, it wasn't just Tess.  A few weeks ago she said she wasn't OK.  They could pre-empt Tess getting the wrong idea by just talking and dispelling that notion.  But it looks like that's not going to happen, Randall seems to be full speed ahead. 

True., but the catalyst to the abandon the campaign convo was Tess and her coming out; she had the second discussion right after Tess and then gave the rest of the reasons which she knew about before Tess came out.

To me, it seems like it was a direct effect and therefore the implication was that Tess and her coming out was something that required a lock down on his political ambitions.  Just seems like the wrong message to me.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

Yes to both of you! My grandparents were immigrants and both of my grandmothers HAD to work to support their families (as did both of my grandfathers, duh). They did not have the option of being SAHMs. My mom started working when she was 14. She worked at a hardware store after school and on the weekends to help support her family financially.

These days, it's difficult to have only one person in the family who works, partly because the cost of living and real estate are so high. A friend of mine who lived in LA was making about $100K so he decided to start looking for a place to buy. He ended up staying in his rented apartment because the only places that he could afford on his single salary were rundown places in neighborhoods that were much less safe/desirable than where he could afford to live by renting. That's how crazy real estate in California is these days.

A classic teddy bear used to be my go-to baby shower gift. These days I also like classic childhood books. I know neither of these will be used right away, but they're good for boys or girls and something that both the parents and future kid will (hopefully) cherish. I know everyone loves those diaper cakes but who is going to look back in ten years with a dreamy look and say, "Remember that diaper cake?"

My mom did the same thing. She worked full time until she had kids. She worked part time when we were very little. As we got older, she was able to work more hours. When my aunt (my mom's sister) had her first kid (about ten years later), she was faced with whether to go back to work after her maternity leave. Unfortunately, she found out that daycare where she lived in the DC area would end up costing more than she got paid as a middle school teacher, so she would actually end up losing money if she went back to work. She wanted to go back to work but ended up staying at home with the baby until her husband was able to get a job elsewhere (and then she went back to work because childcare cost less there).

My sister was born in the mid-80s and they didn't do anything official to find out if she would be a boy or a girl. But my mom's OB/GYN insisted that she was having a boy, as did everyone else ("I can tell by the way you're carrying that it's a boy"). My mom figured that the OB/GYN knew what he was talking about and took him at his word so my parents only picked boy names and bought a bunch of boy stuff for the baby. Then my sister popped out. They had NO girl names picked out so they were flummoxed about what to name her!

My parents were immigrants and both worked to support not just me, but my maternal grandparents who lived with us.  My grandparents spoke limited English and could not get well-paying jobs (especially my grandmother.  We think she suffered from depression or anxiety most of her life, too).  If my grandparents weren't in Canada, we might have been able to make do without my mom working.  But we probably wouldn't have been able to afford the house we lived in back in the 80s.  

My parents had two names picked out when my mom was pregnant with me in '79 - a boy's name and a girl's name.  I would have been Aaron had I been a boy.  I also think people do crazy reveals because they always want to out do other people.  It's also why some parents give their kids really weird names (we stuck with something from the Bible).  I don't think Katoby are those types, so they had a very personal "reveal."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

47 minutes ago, PRgal said:

My parents were immigrants and both worked to support not just me, but my maternal grandparents who lived with us.  My grandparents spoke limited English and could not get well-paying jobs (especially my grandmother.  We think she suffered from depression or anxiety most of her life, too).  If my grandparents weren't in Canada, we might have been able to make do without my mom working.  But we probably wouldn't have been able to afford the house we lived in back in the 80s.  

My parents had two names picked out when my mom was pregnant with me in '79 - a boy's name and a girl's name.  I would have been Aaron had I been a boy.  I also think people do crazy reveals because they always want to out do other people.  It's also why some parents give their kids really weird names (we stuck with something from the Bible).  I don't think Katoby are those types, so they had a very personal "reveal."

One positive thing I will say about Kate and Toby's cake reveal was that it was just for the two of them. I'm glad they didn't make it a big party and that it was a private moment for the two of them. I feel like so many things these days are done just so other people will see it, so it was nice to see them do something that's normally a big TA-DA moment for the cameras as something they did just for themselves at home.

Even though we know that Kate is naming their baby boy Jack, the optimist in me thinks that at least we won't have a baby with a weird name. I just saw this story about a woman who named her kid Abcde (pronounced ab-city) and my reaction was "But whyyyyyyyy?!"

My grandparents did not speak great English when they arrived so they weren't able to get jobs that paid very well. I remember my mom said that my grandfather worked at a restaurant and my grandmother worked three different low paying jobs simultaneously to help make ends meet (one job was in a factory where she didn't need to speak much English). Later when her English improved, my grandmother was able to work full time at a bank, but it was pretty rough during her early years in the United States.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Also Randall is motivated by a misguided attempt to carryon William’s legacy. After, he got clean, William was a very nice man, who is played by a very charming actor. However, he was not some sort of social justice crusader. He was a very ordinary man that Randall has built up in his head as some type of superhero. Otherwise, why the hell is Randall not concerned with all the underserved communities in his own state?

Being in a very privileged enclave in New Jersey, he probably has no connection to the underserved there, whereas he does feel that connection to where William lived.  Of course I agree he could easily transfer his concerns somewhere closer, or for that matter, move to Philadelphia.  He's a native Pennsylvanian, why not?  All that driving is at the very least a time suck. 

[Janie430]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

Also Randall is motivated by a misguided attempt to carry on William’s legacy. After, he got clean, William was a very nice man, who is played by a very charming actor. However, he was not some sort of social justice crusader. He was a very ordinary man that Randall has built up in his head as some type of superhero. Otherwise, why the hell is Randall not concerned with all the underserved communities in his own state?

Does anyone think that William was lying about all that stuff he said he did for civil rights and activism?  For example, one episode has him saying he was taught piano by his father, but it was just him and his mom - his dad died before he was born.  Maybe William was just fluffing the resume.  

[qtpye]

3 minutes ago, Janie430 said:

Does anyone think that William was lying about all that stuff he said he did for civil rights and activism?  For example, one episode has him saying he was taught piano by his father, but it was just him and his mom - his dad died before he was born.  Maybe William was just fluffing the resume.  

It would be nice if someone told Randall something less than positive about William, even though most people do not speak badly of the dead. The Memphis cousin that William abandoned even came around to talking about how amazing he is. It would be funny if someone said “Oh William, that asshole always stole my morning paper and still owes me money.”

[Blakeston]

On 11/28/2018 at 10:39 AM, Neurochick said:

I hated that because in reality the other councilman probably doesn't really live their either.  He probably has an address in the area.

Pennsylvania is actually quite strict about residency requirements for politicians. One Philly politician maintained a residence there, but he was prevented from running because he didn't flush his toilet often to have truly lived there.

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

True., but the catalyst to the abandon the campaign convo was Tess and her coming out; she had the second discussion right after Tess and then gave the rest of the reasons which she knew about before Tess came out.

To me, it seems like it was a direct effect and therefore the implication was that Tess and her coming out was something that required a lock down on his political ambitions.  Just seems like the wrong message to me.

I don't know how you can arrive at that conclusion when there were approximately eight seconds between the conversation with Deja and the conversation with Tess.  Randall and Beth were hit by two major things in their daughters' lives within the span of a few minutes, so it doesn't track that it was Tess specifically that prompted Beth to ask Randall to drop out.  It was those two conversations on top of all the other valid reasons.

[Jillybean]

23 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

Apologies if I missed it, but why did Kate drop out with 8 credits to go? That's only 2-3 classes. 

I have the same question. I remember she was taking classes in the 90s-era flashback episode when she was also working as a restaurant server, but I wasn't aware she had quit school so close to a degree. I don't think this has been explained. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Janie430 said:

Does anyone think that William was lying about all that stuff he said he did for civil rights and activism?  For example, one episode has him saying he was taught piano by his father, but it was just him and his mom - his dad died before he was born.  Maybe William was just fluffing the resume.  

That is a very good question.  I like William, don't want to think he was fabricating, but I had forgotten all about him saying how he learned piano.  Now I have to wonder what else he may have made up.  To be honest, I have never believed his story about Randall's mother.  I don't think it could have happened the way he said, but I figured he was stoned out of his mind and was hazy. 

[sasha206]

16 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I don't know how you can arrive at that conclusion when there were approximately eight seconds between the conversation with Deja and the conversation with Tess.  Randall and Beth were hit by two major things in their daughters' lives within the span of a few minutes, so it doesn't track that it was Tess specifically that prompted Beth to ask Randall to drop out.  It was those two conversations on top of all the other valid reasons.

Okay.    You win.

The whole thing is ridiculous that those two things could derail a political campaign.   But the entire storyline is absolutely ridiculous.

[MJS]

18 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Okay.    You win.

The whole thing is ridiculous that those two things could derail a political campaign.   But the entire storyline is absolutely ridiculous.

It’s not those things derailing a campaign, but reasons to stop a campaign that’s no longer viable. If he was close to winning or even had shot I bet she’d be still supporting it. The issue is the campaign is done and only he can’t see it. Continuing the campaign, when it’s hurting the family, under these circumstances is the issue. 

[TwoGrayTabbies]

37 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

That is a very good question.  I like William, don't want to think he was fabricating, but I had forgotten all about him saying how he learned piano.  Now I have to wonder what else he may have made up.  To be honest, I have never believed his story about Randall's mother.  I don't think it could have happened the way he said, but I figured he was stoned out of his mind and was hazy. 

William’s story about Randall’s mother is problematic because if she died, law enforcement and social services would have connected the dead body and the abandoned newborn.  But  I suspect that this is a careless writing error, not a clue to a Randall’s Mother Mystery.

[sasha206]

16 minutes ago, MJS said:

It’s not those things derailing a campaign, but reasons to stop a campaign that’s no longer viable. If he was close to winning or even had shot I bet she’d be still supporting it. The issue is the campaign is done and only he can’t see it. Continuing the campaign, when it’s hurting the family, under these circumstances is the issue. 

It seems silly to me that because one child is contacting her birth mother and wants to see her and another confesses she may be crushing on girls would be the thing to end a campaign that would be ended in just a few weeks anyway.

And to me, the mere suggestion that Tess struggling with her attraction = full on parental attention seems ridiculous and implies that this is a real problem, not something they are supportive of.   If she's in need of counseling to help her understand her sexuality, that certainly doesn't require full on parental attention in which one parent can't run for public office.  I assume in his previous job, he was likely not home very much.  

I just don't buy it.  It would make more sense to me if one of the problems involved drug use.  Both of those issues don't seem to be enough of a problem to end a campaign.  Low polling numbers can change and he's a Pearson!  One speech should be enough to win the election!  

The financial implications of funding a campaign, yes I believe could be an issue..  But Beth could've put her foot down with that right away.  

This to me is just another unrealistic plot twist to create dissension between the couple that seemed to be perfection together.

Edited November 30, 2018 by sasha206

[nexxie]

Still love this show - the documentary view of things in Vietnam adds an interesting new layer.

[SunnyBeBe]

I normally like Beth, but, dropping out, so close to the election seems unwise to me.  I agree with Randall on this one.  You put yourself out there, you make promises, you ask people to believe in you and then you fold, because the numbers say it's not viable.  Okay, so you may lose, but, you can say you did your best.  Choosing to stop the campaign, for the reasons given, just seems lame to me.  You have to think of your commitment and the future. AND, putting Randal on the couch after two daughters just gave them big news was UNWISE.  Either daughter may interpret that as discord between the couple over their news.  Kids have a way of blaming themselves for adult problems.  IMO, it wasn't very sensitive.  

For Toby and Kate to pick cake as a private gender reveal????  Odd choice, imo.  Considering both of their health situations, they might be focusing on more healthy choices, imo. 

I normally like Rebecca too, but, she really does need to learn to pick up on ques when someone isn't interested in discussing something.   

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One positive thing I will say about Kate and Toby's cake reveal was that it was just for the two of them. I'm glad they didn't make it a big party and that it was a private moment for the two of them. I feel like so many things these days are done just so other people will see it, so it was nice to see them do something that's normally a big TA-DA moment for the cameras as something they did just for themselves at home.

Even though we know that Kate is naming their baby boy Jack, the optimist in me thinks that at least we won't have a baby with a weird name. I just saw this story about a woman who named her kid Abcde (pronounced ab-city) and my reaction was "But whyyyyyyyy?!"

My grandparents did not speak great English when they arrived so they weren't able to get jobs that paid very well. I remember my mom said that my grandfather worked at a restaurant and my grandmother worked three different low paying jobs simultaneously to help make ends meet (one job was in a factory where she didn't need to speak much English). Later when her English improved, my grandmother was able to work full time at a bank, but it was pretty rough during her early years in the United States.

Hey, at least Abcde can later call herself Abby.  I hope. 

@TwoGrayTabbies I agree, but I don't think "Randall's mother" is his birthmom, but Rebecca.  Why would Toby be involved with Randall's birthmom?  

[TwoGrayTabbies]

11 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Hey, at least Abcde can later call herself Abby.  I hope. 

@TwoGrayTabbies I agree, but I don't think "Randall's mother" is his birthmom, but Rebecca.  Why would Toby be involved with Randall's birthmom?  

When I wrote “Randall’s Mother Mystery” I was referring to what happened to William’s lover/Randall’s birth mother at the time Randall was born.  I wasn’t referring at all to the woman Randall, Beth, Adult Tess, and Toby are visiting in the Flash Forward.  Sorry for confusion.  

[milner]

Sorry if I missed someone saying this but  community colleges etc have terms or semesters etc when courses start according to a schedule. You can’t just stroll in whenever you are ready and expect the courses you need are ready and waiting for you.....Kate!!

[nexxie]

1 hour ago, milner said:

Sorry if I missed someone saying this but  community colleges etc have terms or semesters etc when courses start according to a schedule. You can’t just stroll in whenever you are ready and expect the courses you need are ready and waiting for you.....Kate!!

But you can stop in the bursar’s office and find out what’s what - who cares; it’s a good idea for her to finish school (most viewers probably had the same thought as Toby).

Edited November 30, 2018 by nexxie

[MJS]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

It seems silly to me that because one child is contacting her birth mother and wants to see her and another confesses she may be crushing on girls would be the thing to end a campaign that would be ended in just a few weeks anyway.

And to me, the mere suggestion that Tess struggling with her attraction = full on parental attention seems ridiculous and implies that this is a real problem, not something they are supportive of.   If she's in need of counseling to help her understand her sexuality, that certainly doesn't require full on parental attention in which one parent can't run for public office.  I assume in his previous job, he was likely not home very much.  

I just don't buy it.  It would make more sense to me if one of the problems involved drug use.  Both of those issues don't seem to be enough of a problem to end a campaign.  Low polling numbers can change and he's a Pearson!  One speech should be enough to win the election!  

The financial implications of funding a campaign, yes I believe could be an issue..  But Beth could've put her foot down with that right away.  

This to me is just another unrealistic plot twist to create dissension between the couple that seemed to be perfection together.

 

Tess is struggling. She said how upset she has been and both her parents noticed her change in mood. Whether it should or should not be upsetting is irrelevant. It’s not unreasonable to be concerned that your daughter is grappling with something tough for her, and to want parental back up. 

Deja wants to be driven to see her mom. These are logistical issues that need a second parent around and availble, if possible. Her mom coming back in her life is also a huge and potentially upsetting deal, and it’d be great if there was parental attention available to keep an eye out for her.

Then there is the issue of Beth looking for work, which can be a full time job in itself. And the using of family savings to run a failing campaign, when neither parent has a job.  All together it’s a reasonable ask for the other parent to step away from a lost cause and be there to help with all these different issues going on.  

Especially after that parent said he would if he was ever asked. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by MJS

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, milner said:

Sorry if I missed someone saying this but  community colleges etc have terms or semesters etc when courses start according to a schedule. You can’t just stroll in whenever you are ready and expect the courses you need are ready and waiting for you.....Kate!!

Kate really needs to tour the campus and speak to someone about what classes she actually needs to take.  This will take a few weeks, and then she can start classes in January.  This seems really plausible to me.  Community colleges have much less stringent admission requirements than regular universities.  They will admit students and get them registered for classes right up to the first week of classes.  

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, milner said:

Sorry if I missed someone saying this but  community colleges etc have terms or semesters etc when courses start according to a schedule. You can’t just stroll in whenever you are ready and expect the courses you need are ready and waiting for you.....Kate!!

Some places have classes that are only 4 weeks. 

[sarkygal]

8 hours ago, sasha206 said:

True., but the catalyst to the abandon the campaign convo was Tess and her coming out; she had the second discussion right after Tess and then gave the rest of the reasons which she knew about before Tess came out.

To me, it seems like it was a direct effect and therefore the implication was that Tess and her coming out was something that required a lock down on his political ambitions.  Just seems like the wrong message to me.

To me, it seems like Beth (rightly so) recognizes how much she and Randall are not in tune with what’s happening with their daughters, particularly at a point when she’s acknowledged that she’s not at her best.

MMV, but I didn’t read it as a direct response to Tess questioning her sexuality. It was more of a red flag to her partner that they’re not the Randall & Beth parenting dream team they thought they were. Hence, calling family. 

There was still no fallout from Kevin’s accident as far as WHY their daughter wanted to run away. We’ve seen Beth & Randall show significant cracks in their home life as the cost of Randall’s quest for living up to his mythical fathers. Quite frankly, I’m surprised it took Beth this long. It’s probably the most natural & realistic reaction any of these characters have shown since the show started, IMO.

[chitowngirl]

7 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

There was still no fallout from Kevin’s accident as far as WHY their daughter wanted to run away.

Did she want to run away or just go with Uncle Kevin, thinking he was going to the store or something?

[PRgal]

37 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Some places have classes that are only 4 weeks. 

Isn't that usually a summer school kind of thing?

[sarkygal]

8 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Did she want to run away or just go with Uncle Kevin, thinking he was going to the store or something?

I could be wrong, but I always read it as her not wanting to be in their house at the height of the Deja storyline. I vaguely recall Kevin lashing out in his druggie phase and throwing that in Randall or Beth’s face as well. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Isn't that usually a summer school kind of thing?

That, too, but some colleges have just certain classes for shorter amounts of time, some half semesters, some for like 4 weeks.  There only 1/2 to 1 credit, but she could get a start to get in the groove until she can pick up the regular classes in January.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, sarkygal said:

To me, it seems like Beth (rightly so) recognizes how much she and Randall are not in tune with what’s happening with their daughters, particularly at a point when she’s acknowledged that she’s not at her best.

MMV, but I didn’t read it as a direct response to Tess questioning her sexuality. It was more of a red flag to her partner that they’re not the Randall & Beth parenting dream team they thought they were. Hence, calling family. 

This is what I took from it too. Tess is clearly going through a lot and even if she doesn't want to talk any further about her sexuality, they need to be attuned to the fact that she's wrestling with something. Deja's visiting her mother could conjure up any number of feelings and situations and they need to be prepared for that. I think she was recognizing that they haven't been in tune with their kids like they usually are and they need to be, particularly because they're moving toward a time where their kids are going to need them more.

[DebbieM4]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

Tess is struggling. She said how upset she has been and both her parents noticed her change in mood. Whether it should or should not be upsetting is irrelevant. It’s not unreasonable to be concerned that your daughter is grappling with something tough for her, and to want parental back up. 

Deja wants to be driven to see her mom. These are logistical issues that need a second parent around and availble, if possible. Her mom coming back in her life is also a huge and potentially upsetting deal, and it’d be great if there was parental attention available to keep an eye out for her.

Then there is the issue of Beth looking for work, which can be a full time job in itself. And the using of family savings to run a failing campaign, when neither parent has a job.  All together it’s a reasonable ask for the other parent to step away from a lost cause and be there to help with all these different issues going on.  

Especially after that parent said he would if he was ever asked. 

I agree with all of this.  

None of what happened with Deja or Tess is a catastrophe, but it made Beth realize that she and Randall need to be more hands-on with their kids and more aware of what's going on, not to mention available emotionally and logistically.   Especially given the ages of their girls, this is not a good time for either of them to be so severely distracted.  His chances of winning are slim, it's costing them a lot of money, and IMO Beth had every right to say that it's time for them to re-focus their energies on their family.  From the beginning, she's been able to call marriage, and in this particular case Randall had told her that he would end his campaign if she ever thought he should.  And she thinks so now, and she said so, and IMO she had several good reasons.

[ams1001]

14 hours ago, qtpye said:

Otherwise, why the hell is Randall not concerned with all the underserved communities in his own state?

And it's not like he has to go terribly far to find some.

[ChromaKelly]

9 hours ago, sasha206 said:

It seems silly to me that because one child is contacting her birth mother and wants to see her and another confesses she may be crushing on girls would be the thing to end a campaign that would be ended in just a few weeks anyway.

And to me, the mere suggestion that Tess struggling with her attraction = full on parental attention seems ridiculous and implies that this is a real problem, not something they are supportive of.   If she's in need of counseling to help her understand her sexuality, that certainly doesn't require full on parental attention in which one parent can't run for public office.  I assume in his previous job, he was likely not home very much.  

I just don't buy it.  It would make more sense to me if one of the problems involved drug use.  Both of those issues don't seem to be enough of a problem to end a campaign.  Low polling numbers can change and he's a Pearson!  One speech should be enough to win the election!  

The financial implications of funding a campaign, yes I believe could be an issue..  But Beth could've put her foot down with that right away.  

This to me is just another unrealistic plot twist to create dissension between the couple that seemed to be perfection together.

 

In a primary race, yes it's normal to drop out if you are significantly behind. I am assuming that this is a primary. It seemed to me like Beth was putting all those things together- Tess, Deja, her own stress, and the low poll numbers and saying yeah, it's time to quit. There is also the factor of the distance he is driving every day which adds to the time away from home. 
Not to harp on that, but I am still having the hardest time handwaving him running for city council in Philly and living in Alpine, NJ. This makes no sense and it has made it impossible for me to get into this story. Why Philadelphia? There are plenty of towns that need help of a Pearson in northern NJ. Or just have the Randall family live in a tony Philadelphia suburb in the first place. Now they'll be running Deja to Delaware. Who the hell wants to drive the entire length of the Jersey Turnpike every day?
 

Edited December 1, 2018 by ChromaKelly

[bros402]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:33 PM, Amethyst said:

Didn't Kate say she was 8 credits short?  She might need more than six months to graduate.  Not to mention going through a pregnancy, but I get what it's supposed to mean for Kate.  Whatever, I'm really not invested in that.

I reallllly doubt Kate's credits are worth anything anymore.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 minutes ago, bros402 said:

I reallllly doubt Kate's credits are worth anything anymore.

Yeah, it's very unlikely that she can get a BA from whatever university she attended 10+ years ago by taking a few courses at community college. First of all, she is no longer a student at the original university (for the sake of brevity, I'm just going to assume she went to Cal U, the distinguished alma mater of Zach Morris AND Kelly Taylor). She would most likely have to re-enroll at Cal U and then take at least one class there in order to have them issue a degree to her now. In addition, many universities only allow you to transfer credits from community college or another university before you reach junior level status, meaning once you have 120 semester units, you can no longer transfer credits from somewhere else. But she can't just get her last eight units somewhere else and then show up at Cal U waving her community college transcript and expect them to give her a degree. At the very least, she needs to contact Cal U and ask them how she can go about matriculating if she actually wants to get a BA out of this. Of course, she probably thinks she can take her last classes somewhere else and then just give one of the usual Pearson speeches and the registrar will be so moved by her plight that she will hand over a degree immediately.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yeah, it's very unlikely that she can get a BA from whatever university she attended 10+ years ago by taking a few courses at community college. First of all, she is no longer a student at the original university (for the sake of brevity, I'm just going to assume she went to Cal U, the distinguished alma mater of Zach Morris AND Kelly Taylor). She would most likely have to re-enroll at Cal U and then take at least one class there in order to have them issue a degree to her now. In addition, many universities only allow you to transfer credits from community college or another university before you reach junior level status, meaning once you have 120 semester units, you can no longer transfer credits from somewhere else. But she can't just get her last eight units somewhere else and then show up at Cal U waving her community college transcript and expect them to give her a degree. At the very least, she needs to contact Cal U and ask them how she can go about matriculating if she actually wants to get a BA out of this. Of course, she probably thinks she can take her last classes somewhere else and then just give one of the usual Pearson speeches and the registrar will be so moved by her plight that she will hand over a degree immediately.

This is Kate, Toby will make the speech for her. He will go to the University and tell them he is a big man whose wife deserves special treatment because she is so awesome.

[Dowel Jones]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

(for the sake of brevity, I'm just going to assume she went to Cal U, the distinguished alma mater of Zach Morris AND Kelly Taylor).

And then there's the matter of tuition and fees; ~$15,000 just to get through the door at Cal.  Lots of Adele-o-grams there.

[Dejana]

On 11/30/2018 at 11:13 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One positive thing I will say about Kate and Toby's cake reveal was that it was just for the two of them. I'm glad they didn't make it a big party and that it was a private moment for the two of them. I feel like so many things these days are done just so other people will see it, so it was nice to see them do something that's normally a big TA-DA moment for the cameras as something they did just for themselves at home.

Even though we know that Kate is naming their baby boy Jack, the optimist in me thinks that at least we won't have a baby with a weird name. I just saw this story about a woman who named her kid Abcde (pronounced ab-city) and my reaction was "But whyyyyyyyy?!"

I heard about Abcde being a "thing" a few years ago, and there are hundreds of American girls/women with the name (it's shown up in Social Security records since 1990, so some of them are adults by now):

https://www.thisisinsider.com/abcde-name-popularity-2018-11

 

The last time Kate's friends went to a party for her, it didn't go so well, so maybe that's why they didn't have a big event to reveal the baby's sex. Also, cutting open a cake looks more dramatic for the cameras than just holding up blue or pink card.

Hoping all goes well for Kate and Toby, but don't trust the writers not to throw in more tearjerking heartbreak first. 

Guessing Nicky ended up incarcerated somehow, and that's how he became "dead" to the family. He's living under his real name in Pennsylvania, so can't be officially dead.

Randall's political campaign irritates me too much to even want to discuss it. Mildly interested to see how Beth comes to channel Debbie Allen someday.

[PRgal]

@Dejana:  According to Wikipedia, the first Abcde was born in 1986, so she could have kids by now.  

I'm hoping things would be good for Kate and Toby too.  I have a feeling it will be a dramatic one, like Baby Katoby would be preterm.   Or Kate will have some complications and will require bedrest for at least part of the third trimester.

If Randall is married to his work and Beth's job is related to something she loves, I am not surprised that Randall isn't going to age well, while Beth does!!!  

[DebbieM4]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

The campaign should continue on.  Yes, both girls are going through some things, but that doesn't mean that things can't be dealt with in a few weeks. 

 

But it won't be just a few weeks.  If Randall somehow wins, then he'll be obligated to spend more time and energy far away from home, with even less focus on his own family.  I think Beth was seeing it all as a wake-up call, and she sees that they need to put family first.  Win or lose, we know where his head is, and Beth knows that too, and he's not going to simply walk away from that community no matter how the election turns out.   I don't think her message was simply that he should end his campaign - It was that he's getting too far off-course.  Which of course he is.  He could do a world of good for underprivileged people much closer to where he lives without devoting himself so intensely and wasting valuable time driving back and forth.  He's obsessive, and Beth knows that.  So she's trying to reign him in.

I get why Randall wants to do this, and I understand his motivation.  But I really think William would advise him not to do so at the expense of his family.  Do good closer to home, celebrate the life you're given, be the best father and husband you can be, cherish family.  Time is everything, so don't spend a lot of it sitting in traffic when you can add so much value - to both family and strangers - close to home.  

[chocolatine]

On 11/30/2018 at 8:43 AM, Janie430 said:

Does anyone think that William was lying about all that stuff he said he did for civil rights and activism?  For example, one episode has him saying he was taught piano by his father, but it was just him and his mom - his dad died before he was born.  Maybe William was just fluffing the resume.  

 

On 11/30/2018 at 10:47 AM, ShadowFacts said:

That is a very good question.  I like William, don't want to think he was fabricating, but I had forgotten all about him saying how he learned piano.  Now I have to wonder what else he may have made up.  To be honest, I have never believed his story about Randall's mother.  I don't think it could have happened the way he said, but I figured he was stoned out of his mind and was hazy. 

I think the show is all in with the Saint William characterization, as tedious as it is, and any continuity issues are due to the writing, not an indication that William is lying.

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Deja wouldn't be able to visit her mom until Christmas vacation anyway.  Traveling long distance over a weekend doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's a 2.5 hour drive, 35 miles farther than the drive to Philly they seem to be doing on regular basis. Taking Deja to where her mom lives would totally be a day trip in my neck of the woods (or weekend, if desired). 

[kili]

Quote

The two instances make it seem like Beth wasn't all in on Randall running for office and she was looking for an excuse for him to quit.

That's exactly what the writers have been telling us since the campaign started.

In "Katie Girl", they had the flashback where William told Beth that there will come a day in the marriage where she needs to be the one supported by Randall (where she isn't the bass and her needs need to be put front and centre). During that episode, she starts out frazzled and then ends up fired and depressed.  She wants to talk to him about her problems, but he just wants to talk about how he has decided to run for election to help the people in William's old neighbourhood. 

In "Toby", Randall states "Hey, remember what we said. If after five minutes, five days, five weeks, if you're not feeling this, I drop out." Beth struggles throughout the episode and completely loses it during the interview. In "Kamsahamnida", Beth continues to struggle, is having no luck getting an interview and snaps at Tess. When she doesn't act thrilled that Randall has hired a campaign manager, he asks her what's up and she reminds him she got fired. "For the past few weeks, I've been pretending that I'm fine, but I'm not, babe. I'm not fine." Here is her clearest example of asking for help.  He responds to that call for help by asking her to work on his campaign. She initially tells him "no" because she does not want a pity job. He gives her a long speech about how they are the perfect team. She asks him to swear it is not a pity job. "I wouldn't dare offer you a pity job." 

in "Six Thanksgivings", she is crushed to learn that he did offer her a pity job. Her self-esteem is further eroded - even her husband thinks she needs a pity job and took her suggestions which he didn't agree with just to humour her.  And she missed all of Tess's call while working that pity job.

In this episode (set a week later), Beth still doesn't have a job, they find out that Randall has no chance of winning and two of their daughter's come to talk to them within a 5 minute timespan about issues they've been hiding. Beth brings up her job search, the extra load around the house while he is away all the time, Tess going through major stuff, Deja wanting to reconnect with her Mom and the stretching of their finances as reasons to call him on the promise he made in "Toby". He categorically refuses to quit.

Beth never wanted him to campaign in the first place. She wanted support from him even before he decided to run. He never wanted to be a politician in Philadelphia until just a few months ago and now everything must give way before his dream which the odds are very much against. She's supported him emotionally for years and now she wants support. He won't stop chasing his own dream to do that. He promised he would quit if she wasn't on-board and he just told her that the promises to strangers mean more to him than that promise to her.  

That's quite a blow.

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, kili said:

That's exactly what the writers have been telling us since the campaign started.

In "Katie Girl", they had the flashback where William told Beth that there will come a day in the marriage where she needs to be the one supported by Randall (where she isn't the bass and her needs need to be put front and centre). During that episode, she starts out frazzled and then ends up fired and depressed.  She wants to talk to him about her problems, but he just wants to talk about how he has decided to run for election to help the people in William's old neighbourhood. 

In "Toby", Randall states "Hey, remember what we said. If after five minutes, five days, five weeks, if you're not feeling this, I drop out." Beth struggles throughout the episode and completely loses it during the interview. In "Kamsahamnida", Beth continues to struggle, is having no luck getting an interview and snaps at Tess. When she doesn't act thrilled that Randall has hired a campaign manager, he asks her what's up and she reminds him she got fired. "For the past few weeks, I've been pretending that I'm fine, but I'm not, babe. I'm not fine." Here is her clearest example of asking for help.  He responds to that call for help by asking her to work on his campaign. She initially tells him "no" because she does not want a pity job. He gives her a long speech about how they are the perfect team. She asks him to swear it is not a pity job. "I wouldn't dare offer you a pity job." 

in "Six Thanksgivings", she is crushed to learn that he did offer her a pity job. Her self-esteem is further eroded - even her husband thinks she needs a pity job and took her suggestions which he didn't agree with just to humour her.  And she missed all of Tess's call while working that pity job.

In this episode (set a week later), Beth still doesn't have a job, they find out that Randall has no chance of winning and two of their daughter's come to talk to them within a 5 minute timespan about issues they've been hiding. Beth brings up her job search, the extra load around the house while he is away all the time, Tess going through major stuff, Deja wanting to reconnect with her Mom and the stretching of their finances as reasons to call him on the promise he made in "Toby". He categorically refuses to quit.

Beth never wanted him to campaign in the first place. She wanted support from him even before he decided to run. He never wanted to be a politician in Philadelphia until just a few months ago and now everything must give way before his dream which the odds are very much against. She's supported him emotionally for years and now she wants support. He won't stop chasing his own dream to do that. He promised he would quit if she wasn't on-board and he just told her that the promises to strangers mean more to him than that promise to her.  

That's quite a blow.

I would like this 137 times if I could.

Beth is not the selfish one here; Randall is.  The writers have shown over the course of multiple episodes that Randall is putting his own wants ahead of the needs of his wife and daughters, that he has no desire to listen to his wife talk about the difficulties she's going through (if Beth even gets a sentence out, Randall immediately jumps in with a way to "fix" it – he can't just fucking listen for five minutes), and that he is unwilling to compromise or even to follow through on the promises he made to his wife and partner in good faith.  If it's not all about Randall, he can't be bothered: that's what I've seen this season.  So, fuck him.

If my parents had named me "Abcde," I would have sued for legal emancipation at the earliest possible opportunity and changed my name.

[bros402]

23 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yeah, it's very unlikely that she can get a BA from whatever university she attended 10+ years ago by taking a few courses at community college. First of all, she is no longer a student at the original university (for the sake of brevity, I'm just going to assume she went to Cal U, the distinguished alma mater of Zach Morris AND Kelly Taylor). She would most likely have to re-enroll at Cal U and then take at least one class there in order to have them issue a degree to her now. In addition, many universities only allow you to transfer credits from community college or another university before you reach junior level status, meaning once you have 120 semester units, you can no longer transfer credits from somewhere else. But she can't just get her last eight units somewhere else and then show up at Cal U waving her community college transcript and expect them to give her a degree. At the very least, she needs to contact Cal U and ask them how she can go about matriculating if she actually wants to get a BA out of this. Of course, she probably thinks she can take her last classes somewhere else and then just give one of the usual Pearson speeches and the registrar will be so moved by her plight that she will hand over a degree immediately.

At least at the schools I have gone to, if your credits are over 10 years old, they no longer count towards a degree. 

[PRgal]

15 hours ago, kili said:

That's exactly what the writers have been telling us since the campaign started.

In "Katie Girl", they had the flashback where William told Beth that there will come a day in the marriage where she needs to be the one supported by Randall (where she isn't the bass and her needs need to be put front and centre). During that episode, she starts out frazzled and then ends up fired and depressed.  She wants to talk to him about her problems, but he just wants to talk about how he has decided to run for election to help the people in William's old neighbourhood. 

In "Toby", Randall states "Hey, remember what we said. If after five minutes, five days, five weeks, if you're not feeling this, I drop out." Beth struggles throughout the episode and completely loses it during the interview. In "Kamsahamnida", Beth continues to struggle, is having no luck getting an interview and snaps at Tess. When she doesn't act thrilled that Randall has hired a campaign manager, he asks her what's up and she reminds him she got fired. "For the past few weeks, I've been pretending that I'm fine, but I'm not, babe. I'm not fine." Here is her clearest example of asking for help.  He responds to that call for help by asking her to work on his campaign. She initially tells him "no" because she does not want a pity job. He gives her a long speech about how they are the perfect team. She asks him to swear it is not a pity job. "I wouldn't dare offer you a pity job." 

in "Six Thanksgivings", she is crushed to learn that he did offer her a pity job. Her self-esteem is further eroded - even her husband thinks she needs a pity job and took her suggestions which he didn't agree with just to humour her.  And she missed all of Tess's call while working that pity job.

In this episode (set a week later), Beth still doesn't have a job, they find out that Randall has no chance of winning and two of their daughter's come to talk to them within a 5 minute timespan about issues they've been hiding. Beth brings up her job search, the extra load around the house while he is away all the time, Tess going through major stuff, Deja wanting to reconnect with her Mom and the stretching of their finances as reasons to call him on the promise he made in "Toby". He categorically refuses to quit.

Beth never wanted him to campaign in the first place. She wanted support from him even before he decided to run. He never wanted to be a politician in Philadelphia until just a few months ago and now everything must give way before his dream which the odds are very much against. She's supported him emotionally for years and now she wants support. He won't stop chasing his own dream to do that. He promised he would quit if she wasn't on-board and he just told her that the promises to strangers mean more to him than that promise to her.  

That's quite a blow.

I'm wondering if Beth has a nervous breakdown sometime in the near future.  The job she has in 2033 is finally something she's very passionate about and enjoys AND helps the community.  

[Lady Calypso]

17 hours ago, kili said:

That's exactly what the writers have been telling us since the campaign started.

In "Katie Girl", they had the flashback where William told Beth that there will come a day in the marriage where she needs to be the one supported by Randall (where she isn't the bass and her needs need to be put front and centre). During that episode, she starts out frazzled and then ends up fired and depressed.  She wants to talk to him about her problems, but he just wants to talk about how he has decided to run for election to help the people in William's old neighbourhood. 

In "Toby", Randall states "Hey, remember what we said. If after five minutes, five days, five weeks, if you're not feeling this, I drop out." Beth struggles throughout the episode and completely loses it during the interview. In "Kamsahamnida", Beth continues to struggle, is having no luck getting an interview and snaps at Tess. When she doesn't act thrilled that Randall has hired a campaign manager, he asks her what's up and she reminds him she got fired. "For the past few weeks, I've been pretending that I'm fine, but I'm not, babe. I'm not fine." Here is her clearest example of asking for help.  He responds to that call for help by asking her to work on his campaign. She initially tells him "no" because she does not want a pity job. He gives her a long speech about how they are the perfect team. She asks him to swear it is not a pity job. "I wouldn't dare offer you a pity job." 

in "Six Thanksgivings", she is crushed to learn that he did offer her a pity job. Her self-esteem is further eroded - even her husband thinks she needs a pity job and took her suggestions which he didn't agree with just to humour her.  And she missed all of Tess's call while working that pity job.

In this episode (set a week later), Beth still doesn't have a job, they find out that Randall has no chance of winning and two of their daughter's come to talk to them within a 5 minute timespan about issues they've been hiding. Beth brings up her job search, the extra load around the house while he is away all the time, Tess going through major stuff, Deja wanting to reconnect with her Mom and the stretching of their finances as reasons to call him on the promise he made in "Toby". He categorically refuses to quit.

Beth never wanted him to campaign in the first place. She wanted support from him even before he decided to run. He never wanted to be a politician in Philadelphia until just a few months ago and now everything must give way before his dream which the odds are very much against. She's supported him emotionally for years and now she wants support. He won't stop chasing his own dream to do that. He promised he would quit if she wasn't on-board and he just told her that the promises to strangers mean more to him than that promise to her.  

That's quite a blow.

Exactly.

Of course, there's always a follow up question to all of this: "Well then, if Beth didn't want Randall to run, why didn't she tell him before he did?"

And I think there's a simple answer to that: "Have you met Randall?" 

We know Randall has this need to be a saviour. He's trying to be Jack 2.0. The thing is that he wasn't introduced this way. Season 1 had him far less selfish, because that is what he is. His need to help this community is a little less about them and a little more about him. I think he can be both selfish and trying to help others, if that makes sense. But we have seen Randall work tirelessly for the things he cares about, to the point of a breakdown. We saw him put in 110% with William. That was probably the best version of Adult Randall that we've seen, in my opinion. But even then, he put all of his time with William, having him move in to their home without really talking to Beth and their daughters and the news of William's terminal cancer almost broke him. Then, when William died, Randall quit his job. Honestly, I get that he did it because it was the best thing for him. That's totally fine with me.

But the issues really started when he began talking about adoption and even going as far as getting applications for him and Beth to fill out. Then, it was fostering because that was the most Beth could compromise on. All of these things leading up to him wanting to run for office a state away. It was all things that Randall chose to do first BEFORE discussing with Beth. Once he had gotten around to talking to Beth and telling her things like "oh, we're a team, baby. You tell me to stop and I will" but....at this point, is it really a choice that Beth could make without looking like a selfish bitch? How could Beth tell Randall "no, I don't want you to run" without looking like that asshole who is trying to control her husband?

I've actually seen comments on other sites expressing how much they loathe Beth because she's trying to control Randall and his life and is never supportive of his dreams. But that isn't true, since Beth has been supportive of the William stuff, compromised on the adoption vs fostering, has gone back to work after Randall quit his job, stood by him while he purchased that building of William's, and now had to stick by him while he decided to become a politician. She worries about him because she's seen him have two mental breakdowns now. She's seen him at his lowest, when he tries to help and do too much for other people.

But how does she say no without looking like the bad wife? She can't. It's impossible for her to win, especially when Randall's mind is already set. He's extremely stubborn and little can be done to change his mind.

So, for Beth to have asked Randall not to run once he had already likely submitted his name in, she looks like the bitch for not being supportive of Randall helping another community. Sure, she could have asked him to run for council in their own district, but first off, do we even know that there'd be an election around Alpine? And also, Randall had already gotten attached to William's community and had that connection with Brown, so his mind had already been made up at that point. For Beth, I don't think there was any way of winning with him. She could have asked sooner, for sure, but I think her worry was about their marriage and not wanting this to come between her and Randall. Unfortunately for her, that train had long left the station and it was only a matter of time before the explosion happened. 

Of course, the show decided to portray Beth's POV in such a subtle way that most people WOULD miss it and think that Beth was randomly being an unsupportive wife in this finale. One shot of her twiddling her wedding ring and a couple of flashbacks isn't always the best way to go with showing marital problems, especially with an audience that may not analyze shows so closely like we do. 

[chocolatine]

@kili and @Lady Calypso have said it perfectly, I just wanted to add that all this is in addition to Randall steamrolling a reluctant Beth into fostering/adoption last season. Because that is what he felt *he* needed, not because he felt it would be good for their family as a whole. Ever since William died, Randall has been running around like a headless chicken trying to fill the void in increasingly radical ways - I want to adopt a child! I want to buy a run-down, low-income apartment building! I want to run for office! - without stopping for a second to consider how it would affect his wife and daughters.

Edited December 3, 2018 by chocolatine