Star Salvation & Episode Previews Talk

[Snarklepuss]

4 hours ago, RCharter said:

I think it would be great to have a show where someone can give instruction and inspiration on how to turn a more exotic cuisine into something that can be adaptable to American tastes and sensibilities.  

As a country I hope I can give us more credit than to look at an Anthony Bourdain show and decide "ew, gross, I can never eat that!" because that just sounds....not as open-minded as I think Americans are.

My point is I don't think most people are open to this and that's why a show on this food would not be popular.  I'm trying to explain why a show on this would not work on FN from a ratings standpoint.  I am sure there are people out there who wouldn't mind some of the unfamiliar tastes, but the majority of Americans out there aren't going to be attracted to them no matter how they're adapted to suit the mainstream.  I don't give Americans more or less credit based on what they like and don't like.  I think most Americans are pretty open minded these days about food but there's a limit to what we can go there with.  That's why we don't have a lot of authentic Chinese food on the menu either.  I've also had authentic Chinese food and some of the flavors/textures left me cold, meanwhile I was told these were some of their best dishes from a Chinese point of view.  Some of them weren't offensive, but they weren't things I'd go "Ooooh, I just have to have that" either.  And I'm far from unadventurous or closed-mined compared to most Americans, I'm very sure of that.  I've been eating raw seafood and shucking clams since I was in the single digits, among other things.  I'm sure that there are Chinese chefs that could bridge the gap a bit better than to serve the usual inauthentic Americanized stuff like chow mein or whatever, and come to think of it, that angle might be even more popular in the US than taking a totally unfamiliar cuisine and trying to adapt it for Americans.  At least we have tried Chinese food and are more willing to branch out into new dishes with it.  Which comes back to my original point, that there wouldn't be enough interest in an unfamiliar cuisine to sustain a show let alone start a movement. 

The flavors/textures Americans in general DON'T like tend to hover around the bitter/gelatinous/grisly category.  I once had a milky no-taste soup with dirty dishwater jello floating in it and huge, larger than bite sized chunks of tarro in an authentic Szechuan restaurant that was highly acclaimed in my area - Was told it was a house specialty.  It wasn't throw-up offensive, but let's just say I don't think there's any way a dish like that's ever going to become popular in the US.  Meanwhile, other Szechuan specialties did, but that's only because they were brought here and served in restaurants.  Africans are not coming here in droves and opening restaurants.  Until they do and some of those dishes become popular here, I doubt that a TV show is going to convince Americans to have any interest in the stuff.  That said, in NYC there are a few African restaurants, but they have not caught on with the mainstream.  Maybe if they do in the future it has a chance.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[DeLurker]

Say what you will about the Panda Express(s) and Benihanas, but a lot of people's exposure to different culture's foods have started with these Americanized versions.  I think of them as "gateway foods".  My ex was frequently referred to as a hard boiled egg (white on the outside, yellow on the inside) because his tastes in Asian food was much broader than a lot of the full Asian friends we had and my own (I'm half).  He had a long standing affection for Panda Express where it all got started, but he would enthusiastically chow down with some totally authentic Chinese (region didn't matter to him).

And yes, we were totally politically incorrect among this group of friends.

[Rick Kitchen]

It;s funny because there are Indian take out stores on practically every corner in England, so much so that it's become part of their culture.  It's one of those things that don't translate to the US (and Canada? How many Indian take outs are there in Canada?)

[NewDigs]

1 hour ago, Rick Kitchen said:

It;s funny because there are Indian take out stores on practically every corner in England, so much so that it's become part of their culture.  It's one of those things that don't translate to the US (and Canada? How many Indian take outs are there in Canada?)

My understanding is that British colonialism is in part responsible for the popularity of Indian food in the Isles.

One version is when the colonialists (?) returned to Great Britain they missed all of the spicy flavorful foods of India and an industry was born. 

Another take:

"How Britain got the hots for curry."

And there are probably others.

[akr]

History & immigration patterns, I think. We've got more great hole in the wall Mexican restaurants, and they have more Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi ones. And in any part of the US where there are enough immigrants to get it started, we've got Thai, Vietnamese, Eritrean, etc to go along with the more widespread Mexican, Italian, Chinese, etc. Even BBQ outside the south is largely a product of people moving around within the country - Texas to Oakland, CA, for example.

[Rick Kitchen]

Interestingly, there are lots of Russian and Ukrainian immigrants in the Sacramento area, but very, very few Russian restaurants.

[akr]

Interesting, Rick Kitchen. Maybe also has to do with the community's experience in how to start out economically in the US. A lot of Indian immigrants to the US who weren't among the professional class gravitated toward running hotels, for example - once a few had been successful at this, others followed their example. Dry cleaners and specialty grocers are another case of business areas that attract immigrants. All of these are things where the language barrier - in a family business in particular - doesn't pose as big of a problem as it might in the wider job market. Russian and other Eastern European immigrants with less than stellar English may do just fine in mainstream kitchens if they choose that path.

Also, Sacramento with its warm climate is not perhaps the best place to be serving a lovely warm winter borscht, and of course the US has the historic antipathy towards the USSR & Russia, which could make many Eastern European cuisines a hard sell for a mainstream audience. Immigrant cuisines with low costs and vibrant tastes that are exotic enough to seem like an adventure I think probably have an edge. I could see Hungarian getting a foothold, though.

I also suspect there wasn't as much experience with starting up and running a business among those who came from the former Soviet bloc, whereas in other cultures people are quite familiar with how to go about it. People tend to stick with what they know.

Edited June 6, 2016 by akr
typos

[mlp]

Just for the record................ In my small city in Central Illinois, we have Indian restaurants all over the place.  We have the world headquarters for State Farm Insurance which employs a lot of Indians so we have a fairly large Indian population for a Midwest city.  That's probably why many of the restaurants got started but they're packed with people of all kinds day after day.  I can't think of any that specialize in take out but most of them have a lunch buffet so working people can eat and get back to work.

[lavenderblue]

I think there is also a difference in packaging and mediums. Anthony Bourdain, Andrew Zimmern, and others like them are selling travel shows, so there's a story and adventures accompanying the less familiar cuisine; you can tune in and be intrigued or put off by certain foods, but half the fun is just seeing the people they meet and the locations they visit. The introduction and expansion of actual restaurants obviously means a chance to sample an unfamiliar food. But I can see Food Network, specifically, being concerned about ratings for a stand-and-stir show about a cuisine not already familiar to most of its audience without a really great impetus to compel a wide audience to watch this person preparing food about which they know little or nothing. There's surely a reason they keep falling back on the Southern angle, even if foodies discussing this show and others have good reasons to wish for something more unusual (I'd appreciate a vegetarian angle, but apparently it's not considered broad enough to be worth covering).

[Lamb18]

What is black sludge?

[akr]

6 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

What is black sludge?

I was wondering, too!  Googling "black dinner" without knowing what cuisine it might be from was initially not that helpful - although I did learn about an event in Scottish history known as the Black Dinner (supposedly inspiring the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones). However, I'm thinking it may be this thing from Belize that showed up in google images and variations on which are discussed here:  http://www.belizeans.com/forums/showthread.php?22790-Black-dinner

(the image example from that discussion):

http://www.belizeans.com/forums/attachment.php?s=48b9c8b2733606ed5619019ea2543c92&attachmentid=4137&stc=1&d=1221673144

I think if it's tasty and you added some appropriate greenery (cilantro? flat leaf parsley?) and, if they complement it, red peppers or chiles or something, and/or possibly some foil for it - tortillas or rice or something masa-based? - you could dress this up to get people to give it a try. And maybe call it pollo negro, or pollo con recado negro (that's what the black ingredient is here) or some such, instead of black dinner, on the menu, with an enticing explanation (traditional black stew from Belize with recado negro made using our own house-charred organic chiles and other exotic flavors, or some such)  I guess it's of Mayan origin and also served in the Yucatan and other nearby areas.

Or according to the text around this one, you might call it relleno, but then I think Americans would expect battered green chiles filled with cheese.

A cheerful bowl helps, as illustrated in the discussion on this page:

http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/447433/relleno-black-dinner-w-homemade-flour-tortilla.html

But maybe it's some entirely different form of "black sludge"!

Edited June 6, 2016 by akr
broken image link so substituted url

[RCharter]

^^ you got it, it is of the Belizean variety.  Its truly delicious.  Most times I've had it it has been with corn tortilla, but its more soupy so I think it might be hard to wrap.   But how very cool that you went and researched it :)

ETA: in my world, hard boiled eggs are not optional but required!

ETAA: these posts really make me want some black dinner!

Edited June 7, 2016 by RCharter

[roseslg]

Maybe some of it has to do with Geography.  I'm in NYC, and although I grew up on an island and we didn't have a lot of variety,  once I moved here, I was open to trying most things.  I went to Scotland, I tried Haggis;  I was in Central Asia, I had some horse meat.  Some of it tasty, some of it not so much.  I am glad that I have the option of Ethiopian, Senegalese (which I love), Georgian, Ukraninan, tons of Indian, Polish and everything else under the sun.   While a show about something outside the norm may not do as well ratings wise, one should still try it.  People may surprise you in what they'd like.   My brother's had the same background I did and once they moved here, my husband and I thought it our duty to expose them to as many different foods as possible.  They are surprised by how much the like what they considered strange food.  

[Jesse]

I would also note that predicting anyone's reaction to "African" food is ridiculous, as Africa is a huge continent with a lot of different kinds of food. Rue in particular is from Southern Africa (Zimbabwe), and food there is a huge fusion, thanks to colonialism and immigration. 

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, Jesse said:

I would also note that predicting anyone's reaction to "African" food is ridiculous, as Africa is a huge continent with a lot of different kinds of food. Rue in particular is from Southern Africa (Zimbabwe), and food there is a huge fusion, thanks to colonialism and immigration. 

Not to mention a ton of beloved Southern (US) dishes have their roots in Africa!

Edited June 7, 2016 by biakbiak

[akr]

2 hours ago, RCharter said:

^^ you got it, it is of the Belizean variety.  Its truly delicious.  Most times I've had it it has been with corn tortilla, but its more soupy so I think it might be hard to wrap.   But how very cool that you went and researched it :)

ETA: in my world, hard boiled eggs are not optional but required!

ETAA: these posts really make me want some black dinner!

and researching it made me want to try making it! First I've got to get my hands on some recado (black, and maybe red as well) - certainly not going to try to make my own! Local folks are mostly from Michoacan or El Salvador, so might have to go online for it, but Amazon only has recado rojo (from a company in Vermont), and Kalustyan's doesn't have it, so I guess it would take some digging.

[RCharter]

26 minutes ago, akr said:

and researching it made me want to try making it! First I've got to get my hands on some recado (black, and maybe red as well) - certainly not going to try to make my own! Local folks are mostly from Michoacan or El Salvador, so might have to go online for it, but Amazon only has recado rojo (from a company in Vermont), and Kalustyan's doesn't have it, so I guess it would take some digging.

thats awesome!  I think its so neat when people are so eager to try something out of their comfort zone.  I wish I could help, but I'm only an expert at eating black dinner, not making it :)  

I can't remember if it was you, but there was someone on this forum who made Belizean creole bread and I thought it was so cool.  She (he?) said they really enjoyed it and I was so impressed.*  There are a few Belizean import places that carry it online IIRC, but I would imagine if you could find a Central American market or a Mexican market that they might have it.  

If you ever are in the mood and want to try making belizean tamarind balls....I would literally pay you for them.  No joke.  Literally....I will send you a check or money order and you can send me some.   I've been looking all over for some that I can buy and no one sells them.    I think my search is how I stumbled on that place that sells black recado (but no tamarind balls!).

* - if it was you that made the creole bread, I think it is SUPER delicious with black dinner.

[MomCat]

On 6/5/2016 at 9:59 PM, RCharter said:

Saying that you know American limits based on nothing more than 58 years of living and eating doesn't make much sense to me....trying to qualify that by saying that you have a "lifetime of experience" also doesn't make much sense.  Is this lifetime of experience in a field of study that would have any bearing on knowing what the American food taste, or American food limits are?   If you had 58 years of experience in market research for the food industry than I could understand, but a blanket statement about how you must know about American taste because you've been eating for 58 years and enjoyed Japanese food in the 5th grade seems odd to me.  

It also seems a tad condescending to me, sort of like "well, I'm a foodie, and I'll try stuff, but the average American won't, because I'm much more adventurous than the average American....and if I don't like it clearly no other American is going to like it, and its not the American taste" these products to a mass market

On 6/5/2016 at 8:44 AM, RCharter said:

The fact remains that there are shows dedicated to more exotic cuisines and foods that are doing well, have done well, and continue to do well that seem to clash with your 58 years of living experience.  I think you are most assuredly an expert on what YOU like and don't like, given your 58 years on the earth, but I think its a little over the top to assume that because you're 58, you know what AMERICANS like and don't like, what the American limits are, or what Americans will and won't accept based on nothing more than your age.  

Wow, I lurk here and now I'm glad I do because if ad hominem posts like this are tolerated, I'd never survive here.  What else but personal experience would one use to form an opinion on this?  Why is that "over the top"?  I do it myself all the time.  I didn't think there was something wrong with it.  People can notice tendencies if they are aware enough to notice them.

I agree with the opinion that Americans in general won't take to certain foreign foods no matter what.  The only exotic foods we tend to open up to are the ones that don't offend our core taste preferences.  I think every culture has core taste preferences.  Someone has probably written about them.  I read somewhere once that Americans don't tend to like bitter foods among other things.  And just because we've opened up to some exotic cuisines in recent years doesn't mean there's hope for all of them.

I agree that some foreign cuisines are gaining in popularity, however I don't think they are popular enough right now to get the kind of ratings they'd need to be on Food Network.  And I think that's really the point here.

I love this YouTube:

[Whimsy]

I just hid a bunch of "back-and-forth" discussion that was bordering on argumentative.  I have directly PM'd those posters, but as a general reminder, the threads are not the place to hold strictly back-and-forth discussions that keep arguing your point of view.  Either take these to PM, or if you prefer, use the ignore feature so you don't have to see posts from a specific user.  Also as a reminder, "be civil". 

Thanks and happy posting.   

[Pallida]

If anybody wants to read some nerdy research on the globalization of Asian cuisines, I just saw an email about a roundtable discussion on a book titled The Globalization of Asian Cuisines;Transnational Networks and Culinary Contact Zones.  A brief overview of the roundtable discussion can be found here.  Note that this is content for an academic (anthropology) audience and has jargon - but I'd be happy to try to explain what I can if anybody wants to PM me about it.

[Snarklepuss]

So I guess Martita doesn't get to come back on Star Salvation.  Thank goodness, she had more than enough chances.

Havird goes home first again and they keep Rob?  Ugh.

[spiderpig]

I was glad for Yaku.  I like him.

Havird (?) was a cypher, but he didn't grate on my nerves the way Mr. Meat does.  He acted like such a tool when he was booted from FNS.

[J-Man]

So did they ever explain how those three guys were the ones picked for Star Salvation? What about Melissa and Martita?

Quote

Havird goes home first again and they keep Rob?

Not sure what you mean. Rob is still on the main show.

Edited June 13, 2016 by J-Man

[schnauzergirl]

I watched the first Star Salvation and enjoyed it much more than FNS.  Eddie Jackson and Alex hit all the right notes.  I would have sent someone else home, but then I didn't get to taste the food.

[xaxat]

If Yaku's performance on the first episode of SS wasn't a fluke, he's going to be hard to beat. He was clearly one of the best cooks on the show and this on camera version of him was much better than the one on FNS.

[mlp]

13 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

So I guess Martita doesn't get to come back on Star Salvation.  Thank goodness, she had more than enough chances.

Havird goes home first again and they keep Rob?  Ugh.

I think you meant Aaron, not Rob.  I didn't understand that decision at all.  Aaron acted like a jerk when he was eliminated from the main competition plus he had time management issues.  Havird seemed like a nice fellow with a pleasant manner and IMO his food looked a lot better than Aaron's.

I was happy for Yaku and also glad Martita is gone for good.

[aradia22]

Oh, hell. It's a good thing I checked here. Now I guess I have to recap Star Salvation too.

Also, does Eddie do anything but host competition shows? 

[leighdear]

I liked Eddie & Alex together.  But they both seem able to get along with others easily.  I assume they'll stay in their hosting roles til the finalist goes back to the main show.   

I just can't support Yaku.  He seems nice, and a decent cook.  But that beard is just extremely distasteful to me.  I dislike beards overall, so it's not just him.  And in the kitchen, it's just too much for me. 

[jcbrown]

I don't dislike beards overall (my husband has a beard that I think looks good) but I was always distracted by Yaku's bushy shiny beard. His, I do not like. But he does seem like a nice guy and a good cook.

[Snarklepuss]

8 hours ago, mlp said:

I think you meant Aaron, not Rob.  I didn't understand that decision at all.  Aaron acted like a jerk when he was eliminated from the main competition plus he had time management issues.  Havird seemed like a nice fellow with a pleasant manner and IMO his food looked a lot better than Aaron's.

I was happy for Yaku and also glad Martita is gone for good.

Yes, I did mean Aaron, sorry, brain fart!  ITA on all counts.  I think Havird was all along their "throw away" first eliminated candidate.  Sucks.

[xaxat]

So the promo for the next episode features a shot of Giada saying something like "I miss that fire!" to a contestant.

I know Giada is infatuated with the stereotype of the "Fiery Latina". But that can't be directed at Ana, who has never come close to being fiery, can it?

[J-Man]

Mr. Meat bites the dust again! Buh-bye, Aaron!

[xaxat]

How did he managed to screw up a grilled cheese sandwich?

[backformore]

Watching ep 1 of Star Salvation  - Aaron pissed me off.   The task is to make a breakfast out of the LEFTOVERS.   He goes to the fridge and ADDS steak and sausage. The main components of his dish had nothing to do with the leftovers.  And yet they kept him. 

Episode 2, and I realize - I can cook better than Aaron.   And I am pretty sure I can TALK better than Aaron too.

Though I really didn't understand the "road trip"  concept.   What does that mean, exactly?   If you're on a road trip, you stop and COOK?  or is this what you would stop and buy at a restaurant?  Because it sure isn't food you would take with, to eat on the road, which is what I thought the task was.   Monterey's chicken wrap, maybe.  But grilled cheese? Shrimp Poboy with chips?  those aren't foods you take on the road.  Especially grilled cheese, which is a soggy mess if it sits for 30 minutes.

ANd Yaku?  if you want to use that word, ECSTATIC, (twice in one episode)   Pronounce it.   It's not ESS - tatic,  it's EK-STATIC.

Edited June 20, 2016 by backformore

[spiderpig]

Talk about punchable faces - Aaron is a posterboy.  If they hadn't kicked his butt to the curb I'd be sending a Strongly Worded Letter to FN.  As if they care.

Both Yaku and Monterey are head and shoulders above most of the clowns left on the mothership.  I have a soft spot for Jernard, but the rest of them are meh.

[Wings]

9 hours ago, backformore said:

Though I really didn't understand the "road trip"  concept.   What does that mean, exactly? 

They were to make a meal they could pick up at a drive through restaurant. 

9 hours ago, backformore said:

Aaron pissed me off.   The task is to make a breakfast out of the LEFTOVERS.   He goes to the fridge and ADDS steak and sausage. The main components of his dish had nothing to do with the leftovers.  And yet they kept him. 

That irritated me too.  They kept him because the other guy was worse!  

-----------------------------------

Yaku said "me and my wife" and for the word 'with' he said "witch."  He does not deserve a spot on TV if he speaks this poorly.  Eddie speaks poorly too and he won so they don't care. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by wings707

[schnauzergirl]

Again this week I enjoyed Star Salvation more than the actual FNS.  The right person was sent home (IMO) and not a moment too soon.  

[Amarsir]

On 6/5/2016 at 0:49 AM, Snarklepuss said:

Even if there weren't other things I didn't like about Rue, African cooking just doesn't have the appeal in this country to justify a FNS with that POV.  Most of the African influences in American Southern cooking have been altered to American tastes and that's great, but the real thing can be quite different.  I've had what I was told was good African food a few times and I can speak from experience that the flavor/texture profiles are often not that complementary to American tastes.

I've had Ethiopian food a handful of times, at more than one place, and loved it. If it was more affordable and closer to me I might even make it a regular thing. Now whether the restaurants had pre-Americanized the flavors I couldn't say. And certainly Ethiopia is very far north from Rue's roots in Zimbabwe and much more affected by the middle east. But I have to say my intrigue of what new dishes she might teach me overwhelms my apprehension of whether it could suit my taste.

[J-Man]

I could not get Star Salvation to play on my computer tonight (last week's episode) Using Firefox in Windows 10. It looked like it was starting to load, but then nothing played. Anyone else having this problem?

[spiderpig]

2 hours ago, J-Man said:

I could not get Star Salvation to play on my computer tonight (last week's episode) Using Firefox in Windows 10. It looked like it was starting to load, but then nothing played. Anyone else having this problem?

I'm in California, and Salvation just loaded here.  Guess I shouldn't post any spoilers.

Well, I guess I can say that the challenge for the 3 competitors made a lot more sense than the idiocy FN is coming up with on the main show.  The Salvation people were actually able to make good dishes.

Edited June 27, 2016 by spiderpig
re chefs' challenge

[Pallida]

3 hours ago, J-Man said:

I could not get Star Salvation to play on my computer tonight (last week's episode) Using Firefox in Windows 10. It looked like it was starting to load, but then nothing played. Anyone else having this problem?

I had that issue and ended up watching on YouTube instead. 

[Janimo]

I'm not able to find the most recent ep of Star Salvation anywhere. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd really like to know who got to advance.

[Pallida]

I watched it on YouTube (Food Network's official posting).  Not sure why the embedded video preview is such an unflattering shot though! 

 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Pallida
comment on the video preview

[Janimo]

Thank you so much for the vid, Pallida. I'm liking the two who advanced in this ep much better than the folks who are on still left on FNS.

[spiderpig]

25 minutes ago, Janimo said:

Thank you so much for the vid, Pallida. I'm liking the two who advanced in this ep much better than the folks who are on still left on FNS.

Me too.

[smiley13]

So who advanced?

[spiderpig]

8 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

So who advanced?

Spoiler

Monterey and Yaku.  Rob Lunch Lady went home.

[cooksdelight]

This is tagged as a spoiler thread, you can post whatever! :)

[spiderpig]

3 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

This is tagged as a spoiler thread, you can post whatever! :)

ROBTHELUNCHLADY!ROBTHELUNCHLADY!ROBTHELUNCHLADYWENTHOME!  (Monterey and Yaku are still alive.)

Thanks, Delight.  I feel better.

[smiley13]

Thanks for the update.  Of those two, I would rather see Yaku return than ditzy Monterey the model.