19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[Catlyn]

And I'd think, gee, did you never off the American bases when you were stationed here?

Even when stationed in England, some never leave the American bases. You can't blame that on not knowing the language. Thank heavens my dad believed we should get off base and visit things that we'd probably never be able to see again. And unlike JB, my dad loved to talk with the people of whatever country we visited and even if he didn't know the language, would try to learn. (He did have a quick ear and aptitude for languages and didn't have a fear of sounding funny to hold him back.)

[JoanArc]

Johanna TAUGHT HERSELF to read, at a young age, in that environment of all places. They beat the spark out of her, of course, but it was there.

I think all the kids have good potential intelligence. The combination of indoctrination, mind games, and generalized dysfunction did a good job of ruining all the kids potentials.

[Churchhoney]

Johanna TAUGHT HERSELF to read, at a young age, in that environment of all places. They beat the spark out of her, of course, but it was there.

I think all the kids have good potential intelligence. The combination of indoctrination, mind games, and generalized dysfunction did a good job of ruining all the kids potentials.

 

Maybe Johanna will be the one who'll forge her own path, ask some questions and do something a little different, then. I hope they're long off the air by the time she does, though. And I think that being off the air will help. They won't be able to beat them over the head with the need to keep the family brand pristine for the paycheck's sake.

[Darknight]

Another thing that irks me about these people. The whole 'JOY' concept (Jesus first, others second, yourself last) seems to apply to everyone EXCEPT JB! Tell me he doesn't always put himself first. That'll be the day when he actually puts others before himself. What a crock.

And Michelle. When did she put anyone else before her? JB doesn't count because they're both selfish.

[zenme]

One (of the many) things that gets on my nerves is quite evident in that latest youtube video.  Jordyn looks like a street kid.  The kid looks like she just rolled out of bed, but mom and dad look camera ready.  You know no one bothered to wash her face or brush her teeth.  It's pretty obvious seeing as how an old mop looks tidier than she does.  Poor kid.  So who's her sister buddy now that Jessa is gone? As the situation was, Jessa's care of Jordyn left a lot to be desired, so it appears NO ONE has taken on the role of being Jordyn's new caretaker.  So, now this is Jordyn's norm. Hopefully this won't extend into her adolescence and beyond.  Seeing Jordyn just breaks my heart. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by zenme

[mbutterfly]

They preach endlessly about modesty yet privacy is a big part of modesty and they give their kids ZERO privacy.  How can someone expect to be modest when they have to share every phone call, text and thought with their parents.  Not only that they have to sleep like 10 to a room - all ages packed together - it's not modest at all!!!!  JB and Mechelle have a perverted version of 'modesty' if there ever was one.  Sick.  

It seems their concept of modesty isn't typical of Christians (or other faiths for that matter). They don't relate it to being unassuming, or avoiding general impropriety. Their concept of modesty is related to sexuality -- avoiding it until you are married.

[GEML]

It's not as uncommon as you might think. Even people like Billy Graham had the rule that he would never be alone in a room with a woman so he could never be accused of impropriety. Which sounds very nobel until you realize this means women were basically unable to advance in his ministry because the always had to advance in pairs. All because men were always worrying about sexuality and making sure there were never any desires stirred up that they un righteously fulfilled.

You're pretty much screwed no matter what you do. If you take human sexuality seriously, that is.

[Wellfleet]

As I have said, most cults are made up of college educated people. You have to have some intelligence to fall for the lure that cults have, to put it bluntly. It's more about being at a vulnerable place in your life. So every time I hear people talk about being too intelligent to fall for "brainwashing" I sort of roll my eyes and hope your emotional resilience and support structure is always so strong and reliable.

And the Duggars are less isolated than many I've known. So I'm not buying that as a carte blanche reason either.

 

I recently saw a CNN documentary on the Jim Jones/People's Temple cult - the one that resulted in over 900 suicide/murders in 1978 in Guyana, and the shooting deaths of fact-finding California Congressman Leo Ryan and some in his entourage. The tragedy that coined the phrase "drinking the Koolaid." I would agree that most cults are probably started by college-educated individuals - but not necessarily made up of them. If the People's Temple is fairly typical at least. There were a few individuals with degrees that were somewhat senior in the cult, but from what the documentary showed, it seemed like most of the "rank-in-file" members had high school educations or less, and were somewhat down on their luck in general. Life had been difficult for them - unemployment, family issues, mental health issues, drug problems. And turning to the People's Temple and Jones' twisted message, looking for a utopian lifestyle and community. Sound familiar?

 

Edited to correct the Congressman's name. It's correct now - thanks to DangerousMinds. :>)

 

Edited July 9, 2015 by Wellfleet

[kokapetl]

I think the term "slow on the uptake" describes how some people learn, whether it's cult BS or not. Smart people can take absorb more info faster, that makes them somewhat easier to indoctrinate.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kokapetl

[GeeGolly]

I believe most cult joiners are either looking for something or are in a vulnerable place in life. From stories told, it appears they became more religiously extreme following the miscarriage, which can be a very vulnerable time.

[DangerousMinds]

I think it was Congressman Leo Ryan.

[Happyfatchick]

This is where the Duggar types set themselves apart. They're so fearful, self-absorbed, arrogant and incurious that they pretty much never reach out to the world like this.

Honestly, though, the older kids all seem to be so set into -- and apparently pleased with -- this pattern that I'm beginning to think that the main Jim Bob/Michelle problem may be a big old heap of stupid in their intertwined family trees. Otherwise, it's hard for me to believe that they wouldn't have turned up at least a mild but visible skeptic of their methods by now.

This post, along with another that said "cults are mostly made up of college educated people" made me do some more research into cults. There are varying definitions of cults (mostly dependent upon whether the definition giver is Christian), but after reading many, there are a few common denominators. Always the narcissistic leader with Napoleon Complex, isolationism, a common theme, complete subservience to the leader, money controlled by the leader. Followers who "join" cults have Some of these characteristics: loneliness, depression, a need to belong and usually some fear of abandonment. The things I listed are a combination of several different sources. I'd always labeled the Duggs "cult" sort of tongue in cheek, because their basic foundation is the same Bible I use. I didn't truly believe they were a "cult". (Mostly because I think JB does sport (and spread???) a large amount of genetic stupid.

But the Duggar children aren't in a position to "join" anything. Their beliefs were handed to them with no margin for straying from the concepts. It occurs to me that JB probably started the baby making thinking he would have sort of a kingdom here on earth. He would have a house full of babies, they would grow up to have houses full of babies. They would all build dwellings on the acreage around him, and he would go through life surrounded by admirers. Maybe he believed he would be able to isolate his children and their children, and it would be amazing.

It also occurs to me that he almost MADE it. If he hadn't gone political, and if he hadn't gone national TV, he likely would be fairly well launched toward the goal by now. Greed got in the way. That's kind of genius, in a really abstract and twisted way, that he may have actually thought he was pumping out members of his cult (not that he ever used that word...) with all those children. They would have been very young when he started to develop this plan. Somewhere around 9-10 kids, he had to say we're all in or we need to stop. I mean, even JIMBOB had to realize he couldn't support all those followers at some point.

I know I'm late with the lights coming on, sorry about that. It only just came to me today that they may not, in fact, have been pumping out blessings. They were actually pumping out followers. It kind of explains the lack of curiosity with the kids, though, no experimentation, no real exploration of interests. Because any and all interests pursued have to be either approved or downright mandated by the leader. Im not even sure what I believed his goal was. Right now I'm thinking his goal was a kingdom on earth, surrounded by followers he didn't even have to recruit. He didn't have to have any followers like Jim Jones or David Coresh - he was RAISING his own!!! If you're patient enough and fertile enough (and healthy enough to see it come to fruition), this could actually work!

Which also makes it enormously creepy to think back on all the IG comments from 13 year old girls (and their mothers) who truly, honestly believe the Duggars are next door to Jesus and above reproach. They DID manage to recruit followers, and Lord help us when they figure out a way to capitalize on that. Duggar clothing line anyone? Duggar accessory lines? I think its a matter of time before he implements some sort of plan to capitalize on the Duggar name brand, and makes money from the followers. If, for example, Jessa had a line of merchandise (like purses) and marketed it straight to all those 13 year old girls.... Just saying.

A side note: I'm unable to find any research that says "most" cult followers are college educated. From what I see, most of them are searching for something, but i can't find anything pinpointing an education level that seems more susceptible. The Duggar children never had to search, it was pounded in from birth. This was a really disgusting insight and adds a whole new level of distaste for me.

Bella (FrenchToast, et al), I know you're scratching your heads wondering where to move this. Me too! :)

[Bella]

Well, since my name came up: I'm only sporadically modding this week because I'm visiting my mother and my online presence is unpredictable. And I think the cult discussion is sort of related to the "Gimme That Old Time Religion" thread, but it's not unrelated to this thread. So I'm not moving it. FT, BigSkyGirl, or Aethera may decide otherwise.

In any case ... I think the education levels of cult members is a red herring.

 

And I think HFC nailed it in noting that the common denominators among followers include "loneliness, depression, a need to belong, and fear of abandonment."

 

Think about "smart kids" who succeed in school from an early age, go through college successfully, and suddenly have to play a completely different game upon graduation. If they lack confidence, strong social skills, whatever, then upon leaving college they may be lonely because they no longer have the peer groups of classmates; they may be depressed or at least insecure because they are out of their comfort zone and have to demonstrate skills beyond the ability to get A's in order to succeed. Etc., etc. Some new college grads are vulnerable to being recruited into a cult, in other words.

 

This might not happen right away. It could take a couple of years before the young person who's at sea after leaving the academic environment finally succumbs to a cult invitation. But I'll bet if you tracked the ages that people join cults, you'd find the 21-25-year age range to be a peak group. And a lot of those new cult members would have brand new college diplomas.

 

It's leaving school, in other words, rather than having an education, that correlates with the traits that HFC cites.

 

Also, if someone is born into a cult rather than joining deliberately, I think they're still members of the cult. I'd say that about Scientology as well. So I think the Duggar children and grandchildren are cult members despite having that chosen for them. They belong to the group. We've had a side conversation in this forum about the Scientology-escape books, and some of the young people in that "religion" were as indoctrinated as the Duggars.

 

You can take this with a big serving of YMMV, btw. But I feel pretty strongly about my education point.

 

Anyway, great analysis, HFC.

[JoanArc]

That was great HFC. Numerous cults have members from ALL educational levels. Consider the number of people in the US that have a college degree is actually fairly small (25%)....they need ALL kinds of people.

Edited July 8, 2015 by JoanArc

[mbutterfly]

It's not as uncommon as you might think. Even people like Billy Graham had the rule that he would never be alone in a room with a woman so he could never be accused of impropriety. Which sounds very nobel until you realize this means women were basically unable to advance in his ministry because the always had to advance in pairs. All because men were always worrying about sexuality and making sure there were never any desires stirred up that they un righteously fulfilled.

You're pretty much screwed no matter what you do. If you take human sexuality seriously, that is.

And this is one of the subtleties about women's roles under similar religious strictures. We had a young man who came to our church who planned to go to seminary. He was hired very part time to work with young adult ministries and to establish a prison ministry. I was one of a small group of overseers. He made the Billy Graham statement. He said if he were to counsel a woman, he would have his wife present. We tried not to look stunned. We pointed out that his senior pastor or his district superintendent or his bishop might be a woman who might have a good reason to speak with him privately without his wife. We made it clear to him that he was probably not meant for our denomination. 

[galax-arena]

Think about "smart kids" who succeed in school from an early age, go through college successfully, and suddenly have to play a completely different game upon graduation. If they lack confidence, strong social skills, whatever, then upon leaving college they may be lonely because they no longer have the peer groups of classmates; they may be depressed or at least insecure because they are out of their comfort zone and have to demonstrate skills beyond the ability to get A's in order to succeed. Etc., etc. Some new college grads are vulnerable to being recruited into a cult, in other words.

Yeah, a number of cults do big-time recruiting on college campuses for this reason. New college students are ripe for the picking. 

 

While I didn't join a cult, as a college freshman I ended up joining a much more conservative (albeit mainstream) religious denomination not because their more conservative beliefs genuinely spoke to me, but simply because it provided me with a ready-made friend network. I was lonely and making friends from scratch was hard; my roommate said, "Hey, let's check this group out," I said okay, everyone was super-sweet and didn't make me feel like a total awkward loser, and the rest was history. And by the time I started becoming disillusioned with the group's beliefs (particularly re: women) a few years later, I had become so entrenched in the group that my only friends were members; the social cost of leaving (to me) was too high. Like I said, it wasn't a cult - no one shunned me after I eventually did leave - but my reasons for joining were pretty much in line with what cult members go through. I was just lucky that an actual cult didn't get to me first, I guess, because in retrospect I was all too willing to throw my personal convictions and beliefs about ~girl power~ to the side in order to have friends. 

[Happyfatchick]

That actually makes a lot of sense to me, Galax. I can see where that would play out across the nation. Thank you for your insight.

[Defrauder]

Another thing that bothers me about the Duggars - they proudly admit to not being 'morning people'.  You have 19 kids.  How on earth can you not be morning people!!  Kids to dress, groom, feed, CARE FOR, educate, hug, talk to, bath, brush teeth......  When do you do these things?  When you feel like getting up??? You have young children who are not yet self sufficient, how can you not be morning people?  That's absurd.  The kids crash late at night in their clothes and just get up whenever and you just get up whenever?   It's just so dysfunctional and selfish.  Do you feed them caffeinated soda at night on purpose so you can sleep late?  What is the deal with you parents that refuse to care for your own children?  You're extremely spoiled JB and Mechelle it's sickening.

[Oldernowiser]

Gospel according to Duggar : God said deliver them, He didn't say squat about raising them. Yawn. Wake us when it's time to conceive the next one.

[Defrauder]

And Michelle. When did she put anyone else before her? JB doesn't count because they're both selfish.

True so true.  JOY for JB and Mechelle - JimBob,Ourselves, Youngens. 

[DangerousMinds]

This idea that men cannot control their sexual urges in the presence of a woman infuriates me. funny how all the men I've ever known have had no problems with this. And I've been seeing it lately from people other than the Duggars. For instance, in light of the most recent Bill Cosby news, I see men (and women) commenting that women should expect to be to be touched, molested, etc. if they knowingly took a pill or had drinks with a man. Apparently, it's not reasonable to expect that a woman can consent to some drinks, etc. but not be interested in being touched. Luckily, I've spent much of my life with male friends drinking and hanging out and seeing shows, and this has never been a problem. On the few occasions where I had WAY too much (years ago, lol), they simply got me to a couch or bed to safely sleep it off.

Edited July 8, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[kokapetl]

Aside from their religious and moral hypocrisy, I can't stand the way they mangle the English language. Defraud does NOT mean 'to stir up desires that cannot righteously be fulfilled', it means 'to obtain money or property by fraud; to swindle' and fraud is defined as 'an act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain'. Unless the Duggar women use Spanx, they are nowhere near deceiving anyone, let alone meeting the rest of the proper definition.

[Defrauder]

This idea that men cannot control their sexual urges in the presence of a woman infuriates me. funny how all the men I've ever known have had no problems with this. And I've been seeing it lately from people other than the Duggars. For instance, in light of the most recent Bill Cosby news, I see men (and women) commenting that women should expect to be to be touched, molested, etc. if they knowingly took a pill or had drinks with a man. Apparently, it's not reasonable to expect that a woman can consent to some drinks, etc. but not be interested in being touched. Luckily, I've spent much of my life with male friends drinking and hanging out and seeing shows, and this has never been a problem. On the few occasions where I had WAY too much (years ago, lol), they simply got me to a couch or bed to safely sleep it off.

Totally agree.  Men are responsible for their actions, period.  If they can't control themselves why do the Duggars and people like them want to make them 'headships' over their wives and families.  Are men capable or not?  Responsible or not?  

[Wellfleet]

I think it was Congressman Leo Ryan.

 

You're right, Dangerous - thanks for the correction.

[sometimesy]

Aside from their religious and moral hypocrisy, I can't stand the way they mangle the English language. Defraud does NOT mean 'to stir up desires that cannot righteously be fulfilled', it means 'to obtain money or property by fraud; to swindle' and fraud is defined as 'an act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain'. Unless the Duggar women use Spanx, they are nowhere near deceiving anyone, let alone meeting the rest of the proper definition.

They seem to use language to separate themselves from other people. Some sort of identifier. They used to do the same with clothing, but all those teen girls with money and speaking engagements hell no!

 

The clothing is an example of mixing with 'outsiders' has had some influence on them. Now if they would cease preaching ala Ben, and begin conversing, would make the whole thing more bearable. To think that they are so sure of their righteousness when they won't even LISTEN to anyone else is hubris beyond belief.  

 

I just hope one of the kids, (c'mon Jinger) will tell EVERYTHING and pick up a huge paycheck.

Totally agree.  Men are responsible for their actions, period.  If they can't control themselves why do the Duggars and people like them want to make them 'headships' over their wives and families.  Are men capable or not?  Responsible or not?  

Well they are young boys until they are men. There are no teenagers apparently. So they go from the young boy touching over the clothes, except when it is under the clothes, to freestyling with a more cooperative victim to start a family. This is fucked up.

[Churchhoney]

They seem to use language to separate themselves from other people. Some sort of identifier.

 

 

They got this from Gothard, mostly, I think. He redefines words for his flock in the same cracked and autocratic way that L. Ron Hubbard did it for Scientologists. It's apparently a crazy-old-con-artist specialty. Not sure why it's so attractive to the followers, but I guess it's the separation, the sense of identity, the sense of being in the know while others aren't.

 

So stupid.

[louannems]

One thing that really irritates me about the Duggar's are the WORD wall decor and table decor. You know, the single words and little phrases. FAMILY. GOD. LOVE. PRAISE. RIGHTEOUS.DEFRAUD.SIN. I see these words in Jill and Jessa's houses, too. Even the Bates house has these Godly ssayings!

[DangerousMinds]

Aside from their religious and moral hypocrisy, I can't stand the way they mangle the English language. Defraud does NOT mean 'to stir up desires that cannot righteously be fulfilled', it means 'to obtain money or property by fraud; to swindle' and fraud is defined as 'an act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain'. Unless the Duggar women use Spanx, they are nowhere near deceiving anyone, let alone meeting the rest of the proper definition.

Although you could say they have defrauded their viewers with their television show.

Edited July 9, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[Wellfleet]

This post, along with another that said "cults are mostly made up of college educated people" made me do some more research into cults. There are varying definitions of cults (mostly dependent upon whether the definition giver is Christian), but after reading many, there are a few common denominators. Always the narcissistic leader with Napoleon Complex, isolationism, a common theme, complete subservience to the leader, money controlled by the leader. Followers who "join" cults have Some of these characteristics: loneliness, depression, a need to belong and usually some fear of abandonment. The things I listed are a combination of several different sources. I'd always labeled the Duggs "cult" sort of tongue in cheek, because their basic foundation is the same Bible I use. I didn't truly believe they were a "cult". (Mostly because I think JB does sport (and spread???) a large amount of genetic stupid.

But the Duggar children aren't in a position to "join" anything. Their beliefs were handed to them with no margin for straying from the concepts. It occurs to me that JB probably started the baby making thinking he would have sort of a kingdom here on earth. He would have a house full of babies, they would grow up to have houses full of babies. They would all build dwellings on the acreage around him, and he would go through life surrounded by admirers. Maybe he believed he would be able to isolate his children and their children, and it would be amazing.

It also occurs to me that he almost MADE it. If he hadn't gone political, and if he hadn't gone national TV, he likely would be fairly well launched toward the goal by now. Greed got in the way. That's kind of genius, in a really abstract and twisted way, that he may have actually thought he was pumping out members of his cult (not that he ever used that word...) with all those children. They would have been very young when he started to develop this plan. Somewhere around 9-10 kids, he had to say we're all in or we need to stop. I mean, even JIMBOB had to realize he couldn't support all those followers at some point.

I know I'm late with the lights coming on, sorry about that. It only just came to me today that they may not, in fact, have been pumping out blessings. They were actually pumping out followers. It kind of explains the lack of curiosity with the kids, though, no experimentation, no real exploration of interests. Because any and all interests pursued have to be either approved or downright mandated by the leader. Im not even sure what I believed his goal was. Right now I'm thinking his goal was a kingdom on earth, surrounded by followers he didn't even have to recruit. He didn't have to have any followers like Jim Jones or David Coresh - he was RAISING his own!!! If you're patient enough and fertile enough (and healthy enough to see it come to fruition), this could actually work!

Which also makes it enormously creepy to think back on all the IG comments from 13 year old girls (and their mothers) who truly, honestly believe the Duggars are next door to Jesus and above reproach. They DID manage to recruit followers, and Lord help us when they figure out a way to capitalize on that. Duggar clothing line anyone? Duggar accessory lines? I think its a matter of time before he implements some sort of plan to capitalize on the Duggar name brand, and makes money from the followers. If, for example, Jessa had a line of merchandise (like purses) and marketed it straight to all those 13 year old girls.... Just saying.

A side note: I'm unable to find any research that says "most" cult followers are college educated. From what I see, most of them are searching for something, but i can't find anything pinpointing an education level that seems more susceptible. The Duggar children never had to search, it was pounded in from birth. This was a really disgusting insight and adds a whole new level of distaste for me.

Bella (FrenchToast, et al), I know you're scratching your heads wondering where to move this. Me too! :)

 

Spot-on, Happy. You had me at "they may not, in fact, have been pumping out blessings. They were pumping out followers..." That's exactly what they were doing. A little army of admirers and sycophants for Boob - and a staff for Me-chelle. An entirely free staff of household help - no salary, no Social Security, no days off - just perfect for the world's laziest mother.

[anony mouse]

One thing that really irritates me about the Duggar's are the WORD wall decor and table decor. You know, the single words and little phrases. FAMILY. GOD. LOVE. PRAISE. RIGHTEOUS.DEFRAUD.SIN. I see these words in Jill and Jessa's houses, too. Even the Bates house has these Godly ssayings!

That's just trendy right now, whether it's biblical or merely inspirational.

[bluebonnet]

Yes, super trendy right now.  I've been decorating a new house and a lot of the written decorations crack me up.  Like signs that say "kitchen" or "bath" as though people might forget which room they are in.  Oddly, there aren't any signs that say "living room" or "bedroom".  But of course, plenty of inspirational and biblical word decor at all of these home decor places.  

[GEML]

I'll admit to having a lot of words up on my walls. Granted, it's not "blessings" and "sins" but I have a Bible verse page from the Book of Kells, for instance. I have other words up because I'm a writer and I like words.

And I don't have a problem with a late house per se. I have friends in theatre, for instance, who keep their house on a late night/late morning schedule. It works for them.

[ChocolateAddict]

Not exactly on topic but it goes to the lack of personality in the Duggar house. 

I was watching some Monty Python today (no judgement) and I was remembered what my dad said when he watched an episode of 19K&C.   It was the first and last time he ever saw them and he told me that they reminded him of a scene in Life of Brian.  In particular, the call and response bit between Brian and a mindless crowd which goes:

"You don't need to follow me.  You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves.  You're all individuals!"

"Yes, we're all individuals"

"You're all different!"

"Yes, we're all different"

And one guy goes - "Not me!"

I'll leave you to conclude what he meant when he said that the Duggars remind him of the crowd in that scene, hahaha.  This is it here and it kills me every time I watch it. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by ChocolateAddict

[andromeda331]

This idea that men cannot control their sexual urges in the presence of a woman infuriates me. funny how all the men I've ever known have had no problems with this.

 

Me too. I know women and kids come up a lot but their really insulting to men too. Most men can control their urges, sure they might see a pretty woman. They can also handle when their wives or girlfriends seeing a man they think is good looking. Most men can also handle being in a relationship with women without controlling them nor do they want to control them after all they want a wife (or husband) not a puppy. They can work and take care of their kids.

[Julia]

The funny thing is that there's a name for the explanation that men are innately incapable of sexual impulse control, and that name is "evolutionary psychology." 

 

I guess Gothard can quote Darwin to his own ends.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Julia

[Fosca]

Actually, evolutionary psychology wouldn't explain why males have no self-control, because your genes won't make many inroads into the next generation if the alpha males seriously injures/kills the horndog for boinking where he shouldn't. Or if the female target does the injuring herself. Heck, even Josh showed self-control by only approaching his victims when they were asleep . . . at least at first.

I see Gothard's views simply as a way to absolve males of any responsibility for their behavior: if I do something bad, it ain't my fault, it's that woman's fault! How convenient. And it's also a great way to keep women as second-class citizens.

[Julia]

Actually, evolutionary psychology wouldn't explain why males have no self-control, because your genes won't make many inroads into the next generation if the alpha males seriously injures/kills the horndog for boinking where he shouldn't. Or if the female target does the injuring herself. 

 

Sure they will. The horndog just won't be around to enjoy it. Evolution doesn't really care what happens after the boinking is achieved ;)

[GEML]

I know it seems like the women's modesty standards put all of the responsibility on women, but most Fundys are really hard on men too. When they don't control it, the results are really shaming and harsh. Yes, the stories the women are telling on the Internet are shocking. But so are the ones by men. It's a truly harsh standard for EITHER gender to live under.

[Cherrio]

That was great HFC. Numerous cults have members from ALL educational levels. Consider the number of people in the US that have a college degree is actually fairly small (25%)....they need ALL kinds of people.

Also, I think what is actually a myth of college educated people making up a large part of cults started when Moonies were very visible walking around college campuses.

[Cherrio]

I know it seems like the women's modesty standards put all of the responsibility on women, but most Fundys are really hard on men too. When they don't control it, the results are really shaming and harsh. Yes, the stories the women are telling on the Internet are shocking. But so are the ones by men. It's a truly harsh standard for EITHER gender to live under.

I guess there is a whole lot of harsh and shameful drywall work going on.

[Defrauder]

I think the Duggars believe that following Gothard is synonymous with following Christ.  Like the women have to submit to their male authority figures, the people must all submit to the authority figures of the church.  So to them following Gothard is part of their duty in following Christ.  Gothard has his own website and if you can get through his rambling BS you can find the part where he says his name (William-Bill) means 'protector' and he views himself as the protector of young ladies.  He feels the accusations about him by 30 plus young ladies were do to jealousy - over him, lol.  He feels bad about - that - making them jealous.

[Aja]

Pretty sure not worshipping other stuff (or especially other humans) is in the Bible, isn't it, Duggars? What are those things? Commendments? Condiments? Contingencies?

[GEML]

It's the problem as old as time though. God/gods feel far away or out of touch, so we look to humans who seem divine, divinely inspired or prophet to fill the gap. There wouldn't be any religions without them, but some of the people chosen are just so awful.

[Defrauder]

I would venture to say that God would appreciate those who may use their minds to question and explore God's existence and I am sure if God can be God God can be capable to reaching people in a variety of ways and may in fact be insulted by the lost sheep following some dirty old man's (in my opinion) rules on all things God.

[Darknight]

This idea that men cannot control their sexual urges in the presence of a woman infuriates me. funny how all the men I've ever known have had no problems with this. And I've been seeing it lately from people other than the Duggars. For instance, in light of the most recent Bill Cosby news, I see men (and women) commenting that women should expect to be to be touched, molested, etc. if they knowingly took a pill or had drinks with a man. Apparently, it's not reasonable to expect that a woman can consent to some drinks, etc. but not be interested in being touched. Luckily, I've spent much of my life with male friends drinking and hanging out and seeing shows, and this has never been a problem. On the few occasions where I had WAY too much (years ago, lol), they simply got me to a couch or bed to safely sleep it off.

Funny how my husband and sons can control themselves. My father was celibate for a long time. Why are they making excuses. If I were a man I would be offended that people thought I was some kind of wild animal that had an erection everytime I saw a woman.

Totally agree. Men are responsible for their actions, period. If they can't control themselves why do the Duggars and people like them want to make them 'headships' over their wives and families. Are men capable or not? Responsible or not?

I just don't understand how in the hell can a man be headship, but can't control himself or has to have their needs met 24/7. Jim Bob can't even be on the Internet alone.

[Aja]

 If I were a man I would be offended that people thought I was some kind of wild animal that had an erection everytime I saw a woman.

 

Right?? Can you even begin to imagine a religious cult that came dangerously close to being widely accepted in mainstream culture that imposed strict 'modesty' standards on men and boys, even LITTLE boys, because women were viewed as basically having the self-control of a chimp? I mean, that would truly piss me off. I can't imagine I'd feel any other way about it besides "please do not think that walking around dressed like that makes any difference in my life whatsoever. Thank you."

[parisprincess]

Do these imbeciles REALLY think that wearing two tight shirts stretched across a woman's breasts is less defrauding than one tight shirt stretched across their breasts?  Also, the long skirts and tight shirts they wear when pregnant show the outline of their asses, as well as stretching across their big belly, to the point that their belly button stands out, yet they consider this as being modest?  Maybe their shoulders and knees are covered, but their clothes are just as tight as the girls in tank tops and mini skirts/shorts that they find so defrauding.  Maybe they should go back to the prairie dresses that hid all their curves, because they sure have them on display these days.   

Edited July 10, 2015 by parisprincess

[Muffyn]

Pretty sure not worshipping other stuff (or especially other humans) is in the Bible, isn't it, Duggars? What are those things? Commendments? Condiments? Contingencies?

A friend was the court reporter on a case involving a fundy-type couple that was suing Burger King for emotional damages because they found a condom wrapper.  One of the attorneys, when questioning the man, said something along the lines of "When you reached into the condiments, you pulled out a condom wrapper."  The witness loudly exclaimed, "Condiments!?!  Condiments!?! We don't use no condiments!  We are god-fearing people!"    Off topic, but I couldn't resist sharing.  If only the Duggars knew the evil of condiments.  

Edited July 11, 2015 by Muffyn

[DangerousMinds]

They also don't seem to be aware that a man can be attracted and get an erection and not do anything about it.

[Darknight]

They also don't seem to be aware that a man can be attracted and get an erection and not do anything about it.

Like curly hair or wearing long skirts.. Imagine the thoughts that a man could get when a woman wears a long skirt and flip flops