Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[proserpina65]

18 hours ago, partofme said:

For a while I really liked NCIS.   I’m a fan of the Ziva years, I didn’t like Kate, and the show wasn’t the same after Ziva left. 

I'm the opposite.  I liked Kate and didn't care for how the storylines all became so Ziva-oriented, especially towards the end of her run.  There are characters I like on the show, but it's definitely a case of "I like this episode so I'll watch the re-run but not this one".  And I love David McCallum in anything, so I still like Ducky.

[Leeds]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:01 PM, roamyn said:

Personally I think Leon's the best one of the group.  Ellie should never have been an agent, DiNozzo was an ass, McGee & Jimmy are incompetent, Jenny was obsessed (& murderous), Nick is brooding, and Gibbs is a bully.  Ziva's ok I guess.

I'll still watch reruns occasionally, but Cote de Pablo's (Ziva) appalling accent drives me insane.  I realize there are many many accents in Israel, but no home-grown Sabra (born and bred in Israel) with her background talks like that.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Leeds

[Spartan Girl]

Pretty sure I’ve mentioned Chuck McGill from Better Call Saul before. But as the show is coming to an end, I’ve reevaluated my feelings slightly. Because on the surface level…I get it. Chuck knew what Jimmy was, and had the experience to prove it. And it’s really easy to understand why he’d resent why his parents were so stupidly blind and played favorites, not to mention how everyone else seemed to prefer Jimmy for the charm and charisma that Chuck could never measure up to. It’s similar to the Ferris and Jeannie Bueller dynamic.

HOWEVER.

Chuck chose to bail Jimmy out and get him the mailroom job, and it wasn’t just because of whatever brotherly affection he had. He saw himself (and wanted to be seen) as the benevolent big brother bailing out the black sheep. He was fine with Jimmy being in the mailroom because subconsciously he wanted to be the superior one, the big cheese. But when Jimmy wanted to be a lawyer, Chuck went out of his way to sabotage him. The excuse was that he’d eventually get tired of being straight use his law degree to cause more trouble…and maybe there’s an argument for that, but the truth is, we’ll never know for sure—Chuck’s betrayal was the catalyst for Jimmy going back to his old ways, whether it was inevitable or not. Chuck certainly didn’t let moral piety get in the way of doing whatever it took to get back at Jimmy, even when it meant people like Kim were collateral damage.

And the worst part, the part that Chuck was willfully blind to, was that for all of Jimmy’s faults, he was the only one who stuck by his side when he got sick. Everyone else wrote him off as crazy, but not Jimmy. And Chuck still resented and undermined him anyway. It’s hard not to hate him for that.

Jeannie Bueller saw sense and decided she was better off focusing on herself and not her brother. Chuck let himself be destroyed by his own grievances.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[DrSpaceman73]

As a medical professional I hated Chuck if only for his manipulative malingering with his BS disease.  

Best part of the show was when he was abruptly kicked out of the law firm. That was awesome how they pulled that off. Just, enough, get out basically. 

[Spartan Girl]

Another BCS character I hate: Betsy Kettleman. Good God, she is everything that the people who harassed Anna Gunn (wrongly, IMO) accused Skylar White of being and then some: bitchy, whiny, greedy, controlling, hypocritical, and a delusional sociopath to boot. I’d like to say I hope she gets more comeuppance but considering how she and the Kettlemans were featured that BCS spoof of American Greed where they paraded themselves as Saul’s “victims,” I’m not holding my breath.

[Crashcourse]

Speaking of Better Call Saul, I hate Kim.  I hate her even more than Betsy Kettleman, and that's saying a lot.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I LOATHE Ecklie, that asskissing, only cared about the politics of it all from original CSI with the heat of a gazillion million nuns.

Yeah, Yeah, sometime between season 9 and season 12 (I stopped watching after Grissom left), he was "redeemed" and some folks started liking him. I caught a few of the latter seasons, and nope. Still can't stand his ass.

Of course, I'm up to season 5 after discovering it again on Hulu. And it makes me sad all over again what happened with Warrick. Gary Dourdan is soooooo gorgeous.

[DrSpaceman73]

On 4/24/2022 at 4:35 PM, Crashcourse said:

Speaking of Better Call Saul, I hate Kim.  I hate her even more than Betsy Kettleman, and that's saying a lot.

I don't hate her but I've never understood the love for the character. She's pretty bland. 

I don't really see why Jimmy is so in love with her either. Outside the times they are in on some scam together they have little in common. 

And actually this brings me to my BCS people o hate. the show is pretty good but not great.  The idea it's better than breaking bad is a complete joke. I've always got they completely missed the mark on execution of this show. 

Idea : so we are doing a breaking bad spinoff!!  It will be a prequel and focus on saul!

Me : hey that's great!  We get to see Saul Goodman with his practice and introduce some new interesting characters based on the crazy cases he comes across in criminal law!! Great!

Well, no actually it will be his days BEFORE Saul Goodman.  He actually won't be anything like Saul to begin. He will be thus kind of lower bad lawyer with an inferiority complex to his brother. 

Me : oh ok.....so like stories of lawyers he knew who influenced him and taught him the ropes of criminal law....that should be good some equally interesting father figure. 

Well, no....he will have this stick up his ass brother who is a famous local lawyer who is full of himself and totally pretentious!  So much so that he is afraid of electricity! 

Me :  huh....I guess kind of a contrast in styles sibling rivalry. That could be good for a start. 

No actually it will go back and forth for three tedious seasons!

Me : all right....well I bet he has a girlfriend then is tempting him and trying to show him how he can be different than his brother and can be his own type of lawyer!  I get it!  

Well.....no.  she is kind of the same type of stuck up her ass lawyer as his brother and really admires his brother as a lawyer.  

 

Me : all right, all right.....so uh, after a few seasons of the set up we will get to see him start his better call Saul practice and his struggles with the high stakes life and death cases to begin!  That will be interesting. !!  

No.....we won't get to near his better cause Saul days until like season six. But there will be fun!!  One episode he is going to steal some Hummels from a local business!  Another he will trick a government employee into switching some blue prints for a new bank!!  Ha ha ha!!

Me :  Yeah, that's kind of like laundering for a meth dealer, I suppose....hmm

But wait.....you haven't heard the best part!!  There are also flash forwards to him AFTER breaking bad working at a cinnabon!

 

Me: that really doesn't sound like a Saul Goodman spinoff but more like a pretty boring law show that just happens to involve a few characters we already know..... maybe I'll just binge watch it just so I can puck up the few interesting connections to breaking bad and fill in some blanks on that story. 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[Sarahsmile416]

On 3/18/2022 at 12:56 AM, SJC said:

The GG sub on Reddit is getting worse every day IMO.
It's gotten to be the 'Emily Is The #1 Gilmore Girl And Her AYITL Storyline Was Awesome' sub now.
I find primetimer much better.  :-)

The Gossip Girl sub is very much like that too - oh, Blair and Chuck are the best couple EVAH! They are so adorable and make the best family 🤮

[Cloud9Shopper]

20 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

The Gossip Girl sub is very much like that too - oh, Blair and Chuck are the best couple EVAH! They are so adorable and make the best family 🤮

Joining fandoms last year (when I started writing fanfic) was quite an awakening as to how intense some shippers/other fans are. I certainly have ships and characters I enjoy but some people are off the charts….and not in a good way. 

[Shannon L.]

Technically, it's too soon for me to say this, so I'm going to state a first impression:  Three episodes into NCIS and I don't know how much of Anthony I can tolerate. I try to look at things through the lens of when they were were filmed, but I'm having a hard time with this one. The sexual harassment with his character is ridiculous.  I thought Bones was bad (I enjoyed it at the time, but tried to watch it again recently and I can't), but I think his character is even worse.  

Please tell me if he gets better as the show progresses.

[Sarahsmile416]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Joining fandoms last year (when I started writing fanfic) was quite an awakening as to how intense some shippers/other fans are. I certainly have ships and characters I enjoy but some people are off the charts….and not in a good way. 

This is so true.  I read a bunch of fanfics and have been a part of some communities where a select few are just simply BSC. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Sarahsmile416
More words

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

This is so true.  I read a bunch of fanfics and have been a part of some communities where a select few are just simply BSC. 

Sorry what does BSC mean? 

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Sorry what does BSC mean? 

Batshit crazy.

[Cloud9Shopper]

14 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Batshit crazy.

Thank you! Couldn’t figure it out to save my life. And yes that is definitely an accurate description of some shippers and fans of certain characters haha. 

[BlackberryJam]

2 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

This is so true.  I read a bunch of fanfics and have been a part of some communities where a select few are just simply BSC. 

Hi, have you met the GoT/ASoIaF communities?

Book purists v. Shownlies!

Jon fans v. Dany fans v. Jonaerys/Boat Baby fans v. JonSa fans.

Sandor lovers! Endless arguments over the best swordsman in Westeros! Debates over characters mentioned once in one paragraph of four thousand pages. 

Ugh.

It goes on and on. That fandom made me HATE Ned Stark. I even LIKE Sean Bean and don’t care about him always dying in films. But the section of the fandom that acts like Ned Stark is the bestest, moralist, awesomest character ever? Come on. Dude was in ONE season (book) of an eight season (five book) show. And he got played by a snotty teenager who beheaded him in front of his children. 

I would be fine with Ned if I didn’t feel like shoving a dirty sock in the mouths of Stark fans. But instead? Ned can suck it.

[Cloud9Shopper]

8 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

It goes on and on. That fandom made me HATE Ned Stark. I even LIKE Sean Bean and don’t care about him always dying in films. But the section of the fandom that acts like Ned Stark is the bestest, moralist, awesomest character ever? Come on. Dude was in ONE season (book) of an eight season (five book) show. And he got played by a snotty teenager who beheaded him in front of his children. 

I would be fine with Ned if I didn’t feel like shoving a dirty sock in the mouths of Stark fans. But instead? Ned can suck it.

I don’t watch GoT but this is similar to why I never clicked with Abby on ER. Most of the fanbase treats her like she’s some goddess or born again Christian (especially after her rehab and how she’s “so brave” when she continued to act like a toddler) even when she treats people like crap and has never shown any gratitude or mercy to anyone who helps her. At the end of her arc I remember she begged and whined for an attending job only to bail on it after one shift. She just has her hand out all the time to take from others but never gives back. Part of the show’s downfall was choosing her as such a central focus.

If she weren’t so immune to criticism from the fans/so idolized and she weren’t upheld as perfect or how it’s always “understandable” when she’s treating others like shit, I’d probably be more neutral on her. A lot of her fans are really obnoxious and get defensive at the slightest bit of negativity or different interpretation over their darling because they “identify with her” or “but Abby’s TRAUMA!!!!!” I would not want to meet some of these people IRL if they wrap up so much of their identity in a fictional character.

I don’t know why some of them rage so much. I ship ships my friends don’t and it’s never affected my life the way some Abby fans get all put off and pissy because someone doesn’t like their little idol. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[DrSpaceman73]

Ned stark was a naive idiot. I have little sympathy for him. 

[Haleth]

25 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Ned stark was a naive idiot. I have little sympathy for him. 

Definitely a checkers/ 3D chess situation.  

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I don’t know why some of them rage so much. I ship ships my friends don’t and it’s never affected my life the way some Abby fans get all put off and pissy because someone doesn’t like their little idol. 

 

I've liked characters. I've hated characters but I have never felt so strongly about one that I would take someone else's difference of opinion personally. 

However if someone loves a real life person I find disgusting I am more likely to think WTF is wrong with them.

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

I've liked characters. I've hated characters but I have never felt so strongly about one that I would take someone else's difference of opinion personally. 

However if someone loves a real life person I find disgusting I am more likely to think WTF is wrong with them.

It really is about fan spaces though. With GoT as my easy example, if I, as a big fan of Jaime Lannister, and a hater of Ned Stark, venture into any of the reddit forums and question the Ned worship while expressing some Jaime love, I' going to get treated as if I shoved a kid out a window. 

I'm not talking just Freefolk, the fanfic subs like TheCitadel are just as bad, if not worse. 

It's not just a gender preference either. Expressing dislike of Sansa AND Arya Stark can make me fear for my safety. But you know, I'm going to do it anyway.

Sansa Stark was dreadful. She was a snotty preteen who couldn't keep her mouth shut because of her desire to be the most popularist prettiest girl dating a prince. It was her actions that directly led to Ned being captured.

Arya was a loathsome murder child.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Arya was a loathsome murder child.

Arya was my favorite character at the beginning.  But, my, what an evil turn she took.

[JustHereForFood]

11 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Hi, have you met the GoT/ASoIaF communities?

Book purists v. Shownlies!

Jon fans v. Dany fans v. Jonaerys/Boat Baby fans v. JonSa fans.

Sandor lovers! Endless arguments over the best swordsman in Westeros! Debates over characters mentioned once in one paragraph of four thousand pages. 

Ugh.

I don't think I ever saw weirdest shippers on the internet than Sansa/Hound shippers. The lengths to which people can defend a pairing with 12 and 30something ages are something.

[BlackberryJam]

6 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I don't think I ever saw weirdest shippers on the internet than Sansa/Hound shippers. The lengths to which people can defend a pairing with 12 and 30something ages are something.

You might want to dig a little deeper into the fandom for some even weirder stuff. Sansa/Tywin. Arya/Tywin. Sansa/Roose. *shudder* When the books begin, Arya is 9 and Sansa is 11. In the show, it's 11 and 13. But still, shipping an 11 year old with any character (even Gendry) over 12 is weird. In the books, Dany is 13 when she marries Drogo (30ish). People ship that. 

[JustHereForFood]

1 minute ago, BlackberryJam said:

You might want to dig a little deeper into the fandom for some even weirder stuff. Sansa/Tywin. Arya/Tywin. Sansa/Roose. *shudder* When the books begin, Arya is 9 and Sansa is 11. In the show, it's 11 and 13. But still, shipping an 11 year old with any character (even Gendry) over 12 is weird. In the books, Dany is 13 when she marries Drogo (30ish). People ship that. 

Oh, believe me, I know. I read the books and most of the shipping I saw was from the book fandom. The extra creepiness with Dany/Drogo fans is that he basically raped her at the beginning, yet fans tend to diminish that with claims of "that was standard back then" (never mind it's not actually our history, just fantasy based on selective parts of European and Asian history).

I admit to being a bit guilty of overlooking the age gap myself, because I shipped Dany and Jorah, but that was only once I started to watch the show where she was older. And he wasn't half as creepy about it as in the books.

As for those other ships you mentioned, yikes. I hope those are not too frequent. When the fandom is big enough, I think every possible combination of characters gets shipped by someone, regardless of whether they have ever met, are sexually compatible, or even exist in the same timeline.

[BlackberryJam]

36 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Oh, believe me, I know. I read the books and most of the shipping I saw was from the book fandom. The extra creepiness with Dany/Drogo fans is that he basically raped her at the beginning, yet fans tend to diminish that with claims of "that was standard back then" (never mind it's not actually our history, just fantasy based on selective parts of European and Asian history).

I admit to being a bit guilty of overlooking the age gap myself, because I shipped Dany and Jorah, but that was only once I started to watch the show where she was older. And he wasn't half as creepy about it as in the books.

As for those other ships you mentioned, yikes. I hope those are not too frequent. When the fandom is big enough, I think every possible combination of characters gets shipped by someone, regardless of whether they have ever met, are sexually compatible, or even exist in the same timeline.

I can understand some shipping for representation purposes. And some of it makes sense, like Sansa/Margaery. Or Jon/Satin. I don't see how Theon/Ramsay makes sense because Ramsay literally cuts off Theon's penis, but some people are into that? I guess? (I'm cringing here.)

I admit to being a Jaime/Brienne shipper, but it's so overtly romantic in the books and show, and while there is an age difference, both are at least adults.

Jorah/Dany makes more sense because he doesn't rape her. I also never understood incest shipping, be it Jaime/Cersei or Jon/Dany. But yeah, the GoT/ASoIaF fandom is so large that there is every kind of shipping. 

I stopped venturing into the larger fandom places like w.org and reddit because of the dogpile whenever complete support isn't given to the wonderful Starks! or the amazing Targaryens! Years, ago, I foolishly entered the conversation about the best swordsman in Westeros, quoting GRRM who said for a trial by combat he'd chose 1. Alive Arthur Dayne, 2. Two Handed Jaime or 3. Brienne of Tarth to defend him. Not a Stark, not Jon, not Rhaegar, not warhammer Robert, not the Mountain or the Hound. I barely came out of that discussion with my sanity in tact. 

The rabidity of that fandom has turned me against so many of the characters. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by BlackberryJam
Typos.

[Ohiopirate02]

40 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Oh, believe me, I know. I read the books and most of the shipping I saw was from the book fandom. The extra creepiness with Dany/Drogo fans is that he basically raped her at the beginning, yet fans tend to diminish that with claims of "that was standard back then" (never mind it's not actually our history, just fantasy based on selective parts of European and Asian history).

The ability of so-called fans to wave away things like rape in any historical piece has always baffled me.  My undergraduate degree is in history, and while I never became a historian, I can tell you that rape was not something that happened in any greater frequency in the past.  Rape has always been immoral even if it was not technically illegal, and even then marital rape was just about the only "legal" form of rape.  I realize George is pulling from history with Dany being Margaret Beaufort and Drogo being Owen Tudor, but that situation was an aberration in Medieval Europe and not the norm.  

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The ability of so-called fans to wave away things like rape in any historical piece has always baffled me. 

It baffles me but people wave away rape in actual history. I work for an organization named after a rapist. But he was a founding father...blah...blah!

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

It baffles me but people wave away rape in actual history. I work for an organization named after a rapist. But he was a founding father...blah...blah!

I completely forgot about that form of legal rape.  I was focusing on Medieval Europe since GRRM borrowed heavily from the War of the Roses when creating ASOIAF.  

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't think I'll ever read the got books as much as I loved the series even with the awful ending

I don't think I could stomach thousands of pages of it for many reasons. 

And I am a reader that's not the problem. The books sound tedious though. 

[DrSpaceman73]

48 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The ability of so-called fans to wave away things like rape in any historical piece has always baffled me.  My undergraduate degree is in history, and while I never became a historian, I can tell you that rape was not something that happened in any greater frequency in the past.  Rape has always been immoral even if it was not technically illegal, and even then marital rape was just about the only "legal" form of rape.  I realize George is pulling from history with Dany being Margaret Beaufort and Drogo being Owen Tudor, but that situation was an aberration in Medieval Europe and not the norm.  

Or in any writing / show period. 

Mad Men comes to mind.  Pete raped his au pair neighbor. I remember long discussions online about that one, baffling arguments. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

5 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Ned stark was a naive idiot. I have little sympathy for him. 

Characters like Ned Stark and John Snow feed the argument of "good guys are sooooo dumb and soooo boring! Bad guys are way cooler!"

I've never completely agreed with this sentiment, so it bothers me when characters on the side of good seem to go out of their way to prove it right.

17 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Or in any writing / show period. 

Mad Men comes to mind.  Pete raped his au pair neighbor. I remember long discussions online about that one, baffling arguments. 

Pete is a rapist. He's not a poor, lost, wounded child who just needs a hug, he's a pampered, over-privileged, selfish, sexist, entitled RAPIST. 

It always sickened me how his treatment of Gudrun was swept under the rug. 

 

[Enigma X]

I do realize I am in the minority but I did like Ned and Jon (books and show) and hated Jaime (books and show). 

[Wiendish Fitch]

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I do realize I am in the minority but I did like Ned and Jon (books and show) and hated Jaime (books and show). 

Oooh, I hated Jaime, too! Jaime is proof that bad guys aren't necessarily cooler than good guys after all!

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Pete is a rapist. He's not a poor, lost, wounded child who just needs a hug, he's a pampered, over-privileged, selfish, sexist, entitled RAPIST. 

It always sickened me how his treatment of Gudrun was swept under the rug. 

 

I never even understood why the show wrote this storyline for Pete.  While it was completely in character for Pete to think Gudrun "owed" him for buying a new dress and saving her job, him raping her did not reveal anything new about his character.  I know Pete runs into Joan again when he buys the replacement dress, but the show could have written any number of reasons why Pete runs into Joan at the department store without having him rape Gudrun.  

[festivus]

Nobody was likable on Mad Men. I thought Pete and Betty were the most interesting characters but I didn't like anybody on that show. I don't even remember Pete raping somebody. Shows how much of that show I've blocked out. 

[Irlandesa]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

While it was completely in character for Pete to think Gudrun "owed" him for buying a new dress and saving her job, him raping her did not reveal anything new about his character. 

I think it's commentary on his entitlement and the position the nanny was in. 

[BlackberryJam]

29 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I do realize I am in the minority but I did like Ned and Jon (books and show) and hated Jaime (books and show). 

That is definitely NOT the minority opinion. Ned and Jon are held up as paragons by the fandom. 

I hate Josh Lyman from TWW. Every single bit of him.

[supposebly]

I often find that the discussions about characters' likeability is confusing.

There is agreeing with a character's actions/excusing them and possibly having the hots for them.

And there is appreciating the writing for a character without actually liking/agreeing with what they do.

I get the sense that especially in these heated hormonal shipper discussions people often can't tell the difference.

Edited April 26, 2022 by supposebly

[Irlandesa]

4 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I often find that the discussions about characters's likeability is confusing.

For me, "likeability" really boils down to how I perceive the character vs. how I think the writers would like me to perceive the character.

I find it easier to "like" characters if I'm not being asked to look past or approve of their misdeeds.  An actor's performance can do it for me as well, especially if they have a natural charm that they can't hide.

For instance, I just watched a Colombian show/telenovela that is trending highly on Netflix called "The Marked Heart" (or Palpito).  The villain is presented as a villain but he also ends up being the character I found the most interesting thanks to acting and the fact that his choices create the whole plot. Is he likable in the traditional sense?  No.  But he's likable in the watchable sense.

I find a character's likability diminishes if I don't like a performance or if the character is being held up as some kind of paragon by the writers--(and although it's petty, sometimes fandoms too).

 

 

[Zella]

The Game of Thrones fandom is unhinged for sure, but for my money, the most batshit fanbase is Outlander. I know a lot of perfectly nice people who are Outlander fans, so I know it's not all fans. But the online fandoms I've seen for it are just incredibly demented and obsessed to a point that I found really uncomfortable (like being in denial that the actors aren't in a relationship or seeming to get off on all the rape). I tried to read the book and watch the show and couldn't stand either one, but I used to lurk on Outlander fan sites just to watch the crazy unravel. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Zella

[BlackberryJam]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

 but I used to lurk on Outlander fan sites just to watch the crazy unravel. 

Been there. Done that. Whenever I felt like I was standing at the cusp of GoT crazy, I'd dive into the abyss of the #samcait tags. I never watched the show either. 

I agree there is a difference between loving/loathing a character and loving/loathing their actions. It is all a matter of watch-ability. 

11 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I find a character's likability diminishes if I don't like a performance or if the character is being held up as some kind of paragon by the writers--(and although it's petty, sometimes fandoms too).

 I absolutely agree with this. I loved Dexter, first three seasons, when I could enjoy the fact that Dexter was a creepy serial killer. Then they attempted to woobify him and I began hating Dexter so, so much.

Compelling, well-acted characters, whether their actions fall on some side of good or bad, are more interesting to watch than purely good characters. I say this as someone who couldn't stand more than 38 seconds of Touched By an Angel. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

The Game of Thrones fandomn is unhinged for sure, but for my money, the most batshit fanbase is Outlander. I know a lot of perfectly nice people who are Outlander fans, so I know it's not all fans. But the online fandoms I've seen for it are just incredibly demented and obsessed to a point that I found really uncomfortable. I tried to read the book and watch the show and couldn't stand either one, but I used to lurk on Outlander fan sites just to watch the crazy unravel. 

I've peeked at some online Outlander posts, and I concur.  I made the decision to never watch the show based on my reading of the first 4ish books.  I really only know the fandom from book fans on various romance novel forums (a whole nother can of worms right there), and Jamie is a Gary Stu.  The most perfectest man every to have existed.  So perfect that everyone with a pulse falls in love with him.  And another historical property where all the villains are rapists (also gay).  I will give Diana Gabaldon some credit for creating a queer male character who is decidedly not a villain in later books even if he, too, is also in love with Jamie.  The knots fans of Claire and Jamie tie themselves into in order to justify that ship being not technically cheating is actually quite amusing.  

2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Been there. Done that. Whenever I felt like I was standing at the cusp of GoT crazy, I'd dive into the abyss of the #samcait tags. I never watched the show either. 

So, another Supernatural where the fans project their character fantasies onto the actors.  

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jamie is a Gary Stu.  The most perfectest man every to have existed.  So perfect that everyone with a pulse falls in love with him.

Yeah that was one reason I couldn't get into it. I found Jamie and Claire both absolutely insufferable. I did really like Sam and Cait, so I enjoyed watching interviews with them long after I wrote off the show. 😂

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

Technically, it's too soon for me to say this, so I'm going to state a first impression:  Three episodes into NCIS and I don't know how much of Anthony I can tolerate. I try to look at things through the lens of when they were were filmed, but I'm having a hard time with this one. The sexual harassment with his character is ridiculous.  I thought Bones was bad (I enjoyed it at the time, but tried to watch it again recently and I can't), but I think his character is even worse.  

Please tell me if he gets better as the show progresses.

He doesn't.

7 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Ned stark was a naive idiot. I have little sympathy for him. 

He was definitely extremely naive.  He got into a situation which required a lot of political sense and he really did not have that skill set.  I have some sympathy for him because he did really want to do the best for his friend, but at some point he needed to either stop being so upright and play the game a little or cut bait and go home much earlier.

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

You might want to dig a little deeper into the fandom for some even weirder stuff. Sansa/Tywin. Arya/Tywin. Sansa/Roose. *shudder* When the books begin, Arya is 9 and Sansa is 11. In the show, it's 11 and 13. But still, shipping an 11 year old with any character (even Gendry) over 12 is weird. In the books, Dany is 13 when she marries Drogo (30ish). People ship that. 

I am so glad that I limited my GOT stuff to here and TVP before it closed.  Because some of the shipping on these two sites were bad enough.

3 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

The extra creepiness with Dany/Drogo fans is that he basically raped her at the beginning, yet fans tend to diminish that with claims of "that was standard back then"

For me, it was the people who wanted the wedding night scene to be the crappy, poorly written romance novel shit from the book (I love the books but that scene was horrible) instead of the rape it actually should have been in both book & show.

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Oooh, I hated Jaime, too! Jaime is proof that bad guys aren't necessarily cooler than good guys after all!

I hated him up to a certain point and then started to appreciate the character.  Not that I ever thought he was a good person, just a very complicated and interesting one.

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

And I am a reader that's not the problem. The books sound tedious though. 

They definitely had tedious moments, mostly in books 4 & 5.  The first 3 moved along as a good pace despite their length.  At some point, though, GRRM's editor must've stopped trying to actually edit.

 

I find I don't necessarily have to like all the characters on a show as long as they are interesting, but I do want at least one person I don't hate.

[nodorothyparker]

I like the Outlander books and series for what they are (escapism with some pretty scenery and fun history stuff), but I'm under no illusions about their many many issues or the serious editing they need. If you watch any discussions long enough you quickly realize there's a lot of self-inserting going on with some of the fandom and they can be wildly territorial about the characters. I mostly lay the blame at the feet of an author with a lot of obvious hangups about religion, sex, and related traditions who can only work around them by using rape and weirdly dubious consent issues over and over as plot devices. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Characters like Ned Stark and John Snow feed the argument of "good guys are sooooo dumb and soooo boring! Bad guys are way cooler!"

I've never completely agreed with this sentiment, so it bothers me when characters on the side of good seem to go out of their way to prove it right

Ned was willing to trust Littlefinger with anything, but thought it was too risky to trust his own wife that Jon was his nephew instead of his bastard. That sums up all you need to know.

[Zella]

22 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I mostly lay the blame at the feet of an author with a lot of obvious hangups about religion, sex, and related traditions who can only work around them by using rape and weirdly dubious consent issues over and over as plot devices. 

Yes she has issues. Between her comments about how she couldn't wait for Sam to be raped in the show and her blog post about how writing fan fiction about her character is like breaking into her house and raping her husband, I feel pretty comfortable calling her a massive creep. 

[DearEvette]

42 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

If you watch any discussions long enough you quickly realize there's a lot of self-inserting going on with some of the fandom and they can be wildly territorial about the characters.

Understatement of the year, LOL.

[proserpina65]

45 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ned was willing to trust Littlefinger with anything, but thought it was too risky to trust his own wife that Jon was his nephew instead of his bastard. That sums up all you need to know.

I completely understand Ned's decision to keep Jon's parentage to himself.  Trusting Littlefinger, oth, well that was extremely poor judgment indeed.