Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[GHScorpiosRule]

I have never seen Bobby enable JR. on the contrary, he was always calling JR out on his shit, shady and illegal dealings, and also beating the shit out of him. Ray was another who beat the shit out of him and called him out on his crap-AFTER JR screwed hon over and slept with Kate Mulgrew’s character. But then she didn’t care to be faithful to Ray.

Miss Ellie did, but there were a few times when she had had enough and brought him down-like when they voted JR out when Jock was “missing”.

[bluegirl147]

JR was the quintessential character you love to hate.  And that was due to Larry Hagman.  In another actor's hands he could have been a stereotypical villain.  

[AgathaC]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I have never seen Bobby enable JR. on the contrary, he was always calling JR out on his shit, shady and illegal dealings, and also beating the shit out of him. Ray was another who beat the shit out of him and called him out on his crap-AFTER JR screwed hon over and slept with Kate Mulgrew’s character. But then she didn’t care to be faithful to Ray.

Miss Ellie did, but there were a few times when she had had enough and brought him down-like when they voted JR out when Jock was “missing”.

Sometimes he called him out. But if any outsider (or even family member) tried to, he would often shut it down. I get the family sticking together thing. And there were times Bobby and/or Miss Ellie would get upset with him. But it felt like they would usually end up backing down and not hold him truly accountable. Even things like Bobby not letting JR back into Ewing Oil or not letting him be part of oil deals, he would always back down — which would almost always end up with JR doing something to jeopardize the company/family.

You’re right in that he would sometimes hold JR accountable. I think I just get annoyed with how many times he backed down or seemed to forget how JR truly was. Other than those times, I liked Bobby fine.

 

20 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

JR was the quintessential character you love to hate.  And that was due to Larry Hagman.  In another actor's hands he could have been a stereotypical villain.  

Absolutely. JR is a heinous human being, but he’s a damned entertaining one. And that’s due to Hagman’s portrayal.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

Absolutely. JR is a heinous human being, but he’s a damned entertaining one. And that’s due to Hagman’s portrayal.

He's the ORIGINAL MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!!!!

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He's the ORIGINAL MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!!!!

I was a kid when Dallas first started airing so I wasn't reading TV magazines but surely there was talk of how can Tony Nelson play a villain.

Edited March 21 by bluegirl147

[GHScorpiosRule]

38 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I was a kid when Dallas first started airing so I wasn't reading TV magazines but surely there was talk of how can Tony Nelson play a villain.

So was I! I have mentioned in the show thread and other places that it took me some time to see Major Tony Nelson as a villain! And Ginger!

[bluegirl147]

Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

So was I! I have mentioned in the show thread and other places that it took me some time to see Major Tony Nelson as a villain! And Ginger!

Oh yeah.  Tina Louise played Julie Grey.  I remember her fall off the building.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Sometimes he called him out. But if any outsider (or even family member) tried to, he would often shut it down. I get the family sticking together thing. And there were times Bobby and/or Miss Ellie would get upset with him. But it felt like they would usually end up backing down and not hold him truly accountable. Even things like Bobby not letting JR back into Ewing Oil or not letting him be part of oil deals, he would always back down — which would almost always end up with JR doing something to jeopardize the company/family.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. More often times than not, Bobby would tear into JR; and that started with the mini-series pilot. 

Sure, when it was the Family against outsiders, they would stick together to the, say, The Cartel, but when JR pulled that shit with Asian oil fields, and then forcing Miss Ellie to open that one well she promised her Daddy she never would do because of JR (at the last moment she didn't have to) with the Asian oil fields, the family ripped him a new one, and deservedly so.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I was a kid when Dallas first started airing so I wasn't reading TV magazines but surely there was talk of how can Tony Nelson play a villain.

I watched I Dream of Jeanine before I saw Dallas. It was a shocking at first to see Major Nelson being such a bastard.  

[Egg McMuffin]

Sue Ellen was the best mother on the show. Let’s compare her to the others:

• Ellie played favorites (“Gaaaarrry!”), guilted her sons to live at home as adults, and was party to denying her granddaughter’s mother the opportunity to raise her.
• Pamela abandoned Christopher after her car accident.
• Rebecca abandoned Pam and Cliff.
• Jenna was coy about Charlie’s parentage, and then tried to keep Lucas away from Bobby and his family.
• Patricia Shepherd directed her daughters, Sue Ellen and Kristin, to pursue rich husbands at any cost.
• Afton denied her daughter the opportunity to know her father.
• Valene’s mother dumped her on relatives so she could pursue her dreams of being an autoharp superstar.

The Dallas fathers were no better, btw.

• Jock played favorites and helped contribute to JRs villainy by feeding his insecurities. He also treated women like second-class citizens.
• JR treated his son’s mother like crap.
• Ray took a bizarre interest in his teenage stepdaughter’s romantic life.
• Bobby abandoned Lucas because Christopher felt insecure.
• Gary abandoned Lucy.

Edited March 22 by Egg McMuffin

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Pamela abandoned John Ross after her car accident.

I think you mean Christopher. And I disagree because it and Pam’s abandonment of Bobby AND Christopher was a plot point because Victoria left the show; and they turned her into a deadbeat mom, and then killed her off.

And I don’t think Bobby was a bad dad.

Sue Ellen became a good mother after she decided to become a mother, and avoiding John Ross (after giving birth), and of course her drinking when she was pregnant.

 

[AgathaC]

39 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think you mean Christopher. And I disagree because it and Pam’s abandonment of Bobby AND Christopher was a plot point because Victoria left the show; and they turned her into a deadbeat mom, and then killed her off.

And I don’t think Bobby was a bad dad.

Sue Ellen became a good mother after she decided to become a mother, and avoiding John Ross (after giving birth), and of course her drinking when she was pregnant.

 

Bobby was an awesome dad, in my opinion.

And I hated the way they wrote Pam off — on multiple levels.

As for Sue Ellen, remaining in a state of intoxication for most of her pregnancy was not her finest hour. But once she stabilized, I thought she was level-headed and a good parent.

[JustHereForFood]

Speaking of family relationships, I can't remember - once it was revealed that Ray is Jock's son, was it ever brought up that he slept with Lucy or have they conveniently never mentioned it again? I think it was the latter but I'm not sure.

[GHScorpiosRule]

40 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Speaking of family relationships, I can't remember - once it was revealed that Ray is Jock's son, was it ever brought up that he slept with Lucy or have they conveniently never mentioned it again? I think it was the latter but I'm not sure.

No. And the only reason they made Ray a Ewing was because Kanaly wasn’t happy and was going to quit. Hagman convinced him to stay, spoke with Katzman, and they came up with that storyline. I saw this on a YouTube interview just last week-what with rewatching the show, I went into a Dallas rabbit hole, 😁. But it was never brought up that Ray and Lucy had had an affair when she was 17.

Edited March 23 by GHScorpiosRule

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. And the only reason they made Ray a Ewing was because Kanaly wasn’t happy and was going to quit. Hagman convinced him to stay, spoke with Katzman, and they came up with that storyline. I saw this on a YouTube interview just last week-what with rewatching the show, I went into a Dallas rabbit hole, 😁. But it was never brought up that Ray and Lucy had had an affair when she was 17.

That's what made the reveal so weird. 

[Blergh]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's what made the reveal so weird. 

How tough would it have been for Ray and/or Lucy to have had a momentary reaction of 'EWWW!!!!' while shuddering upon hearing the news?

But,none of the characters who'd known about their unquestionably dubious encounters  ever even vaguely alluded to it.

P.S. Yes, even had they NOT been related- for a grown employee to have had sexual encounters with an underage girl( his employer's granddaughter)  was already icky- to say nothing of criminal!

Edited March 24 by Blergh

[JustHereForFood]

10 hours ago, Blergh said:

How tough would it have been for Ray and/or Lucy to have had a momentary reaction of 'EWWW!!!!' while shuddering upon hearing the news?

But,none of the characters who'd known about their unquestionably dubious encounters  ever even vaguely alluded to it.

P.S. Yes, even had they NOT been related- for a grown employee to have had sexual encounters with an underage girl( his employer's granddaughter)  was already icky- to say nothing of criminal!

I don't know if criminal, think she was 17, isn't the age of consent 16 in the US? But it's still icky considering the age difference and the fact that Lucy specifically was not very mature. She wasn't particularly mature when older either, though.

[Egg McMuffin]

On 3/20/2024 at 10:12 AM, AgathaC said:

As for JR, he grew up knowing he was neither parents’ favorite, constantly seeking his father’s approval. That can do a number on the psyche.

I thought it was great that the show carefully set up a reason for JR’s villainy from the first episode. JR didn’t do bad deeds just for the sake of it; he was doing them to gain his father’s approval by building up the company.

When Jock died, they did a storyline about JR giving up on his work because it didn’t matter anymore now that his daddy wasn’t around. JR eventually snapped out of it and went back to his villainous ways when Bobby reminded him that he was now building the company for his son instead of his father (thanks, Bobby!).

[bluegirl147]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:45 PM, Blergh said:

But,none of the characters who'd known about their unquestionably dubious encounters  ever even vaguely alluded to it.

Am I wrong in remembering only Pam knew about it?

On 3/22/2024 at 3:44 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

Jenna was coy about Charlie’s parentage, and then tried to keep Lucas away from Bobby and his family.

Could not stand Jenna.  I think the audience was supposed to think of her as a poor put upon damsel in distress but like you said she was not above playing games.

On 3/22/2024 at 7:34 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I disagree because it and Pam’s abandonment of Bobby AND Christopher was a plot point because Victoria left the show; and they turned her into a deadbeat mom, and then killed her off.

I don't think the show ever recovered from that.  I would have been willing to accept a recast for Pam if they had chosen the right actress.

On 3/24/2024 at 12:16 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I thought it was great that the show carefully set up a reason for JR’s villainy from the first episode. JR didn’t do bad deeds just for the sake of it; he was doing them to gain his father’s approval by building up the company.

When Jock died, they did a storyline about JR giving up on his work because it didn’t matter anymore now that his daddy wasn’t around. JR eventually snapped out of it and went back to his villainous ways when Bobby reminded him that he was now building the company for his son instead of his father (thanks, Bobby!).

JR was a complex character. He wasn't some big bad who did evil things just because. Most of his misdeeds were related to doing what he thought was best for Ewing Oil.  He was probably wrong as much as he was right but that was usually his motivation.  His cheating on his wives though was just him being a dog.  There is no complexity there.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

27 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Am I wrong in remembering only Pam knew about it?

Bobby also knew about Ray and Lucy. There was a scene in the first season, I think, at the disco? or maybe later, where Bobby warned Ray to stay away from Lucy-that he wasn't as blind (I'm paraphrasing here) to what had been going on.

Look, Hagman and Katzman wanted Kanaly to stay with the show. So they hand waved the affair Ray and Lucy had. 

29 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I don't think the show ever recovered from that.  I would have been willing to accept a recast for Pam if they had chosen the right actress.

They didn't. The show just went downhill from that season until the end. I stuck with it out of loyalty, but it was horrible. Then Linda left two years after Victoria.

They did a small plot with a Pam dead ringer, who apparently had been living in Dallas all her life, was a real estate agent, but suddenly, Bobby crossed paths with her. Of course they had to make her out to be a scheming whatever-reading up on Pam, dressing like her; so Bobby had a short fling, as a way to say goodbye to Pam. Then the same actress (who did look sort of like Victoria) showed up as Pam a year later, when Cliff found her, only to tell him, she didn't care about Christopher--the baby, the child-she'd always wanted. Something that had made her suicidal and put in a sanitarium-or Bobby, because she fell in wuv with her doctor. Yeah, yeah, she was dying. From WHAT? I guess she just wasn't a strong enough actress to play Pam long term? It was clear Katzman and company didn't know what to do and cobbled all this together, after Pam begged Bobby to never leave her when she woke up from the dream season.

Can ye tell I'm still bitter over this?

[MissAlmond]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Look, Hagman and Katzman wanted Kanaly to stay with the show. So they hand waved the affair Ray and Lucy had. 

Dallas never mentioning the Ray/Lucy affair again after Ray became a Ewing was the show's Men in Black way of saying: Didn't happen.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, MissAlmond said:

Dallas never mentioning the Ray/Lucy affair again after Ray became a Ewing was the show's Men in Black way of saying: Didn't happen.

Exactly!

[MissAlmond]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Exactly!

[AgathaC]

As we seem to have taken over this thread, i’m going to move over to the Dallas thread! 

[Spartan Girl]

Thomas Boleyn on The Tudors. It takes a special kind of asshole to top Henry as the Worst Father Ever on the show, and oh did he ever. Bad enough that he treated his daughters like cash cows for power. But he disowns Mary for marrying a commoner for love, refuses to show Anne any sympathy for her miscarriages, and ultimately sells Anne and George down the River, not even bothering to hide how giddy he is for keeping his wealth! Even after Charles Brandon gives him his long overdue riot act—“Was it all worth it?”—he doesn’t even have the decency to acknowledge Anne when she tearfully waves to him from the Tower window.

Piece. Of. Shit.

Oh yeah, he tried to murder Bishop Fisher too.

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thomas Boleyn on The Tudors. It takes a special kind of asshole to top Henry as the Worst Father Ever on the show, and oh did he ever. Bad enough that he treated his daughters like cash cows for power. But he disowns Mary for marrying a commoner for love, refuses to show Anne any sympathy for her miscarriages, and ultimately sells Anne and George down the River, not even bothering to hide how giddy he is for keeping his wealth! Even after Charles Brandon gives him his long overdue riot act—“Was it all worth it?”—he doesn’t even have the decency to acknowledge Anne when she tearfully waves to him from the Tower window.

Piece. Of. Shit.

Oh yeah, he tried to murder Bishop Fisher too.

Wow, it's hard to beat Henry as an even worse father. That's Lady Jane Grey levels of father. 

[Danny Franks]

I did a rewatch of Scrubs and decided I might as well bite the bullet and watch season nine for the first time.

I only got halfway through. Partly because it just isn't very funny and the entire setup is awkward and artificial, and partly because Dave Franco's character is one of the most unpleasant and annoying characters I've ever seen on a TV show.

He is selfish, narcissistic, callous and rude. One of the first things he does is sleep with Kerry Bishe's character, then take a photo of her naked when she's not looking and share it with people at the hospital.

Then, even after she's completely humiliated by that, she sleeps with him again.

He's similar to another rich boy med student character who appeared much earlier in the show. In that case, Elliot humbles him and calls his bluff on his threat that his rich dad will pull his donation to the hospital. But there is no such humbling or humanising of Dave Franco in season nine.

[Mabinogia]

15 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I did a rewatch of Scrubs and decided I might as well bite the bullet and watch season nine for the first time.

Thank you for watching that so I don't have to. That sounds horrible, and nothing like the Scrubs I knew and loved. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Rewatching The Resident, and I’m currently on S1. I know it’s obvious to hate Lane, the oncologist, but for her to harm so many cancer patients and overtreat them to get more money…it’s so hard to watch Lily, the one patient particularly special to Conrad, die an unnecessary death. This was when Bell was still a villain and covering up his own issues while having a short fling with Lane in late S1. 

I do think Melina Kanakaredes is very attractive though. I remember seeing promos for Providence back in the 2000s and not realizing she was probably one of my first girl crushes (never saw that show though).

Also on The Resident: Barrett Cain, the neurosurgeon who shows up in S3. Even for a surgeon, he had way too big of an ego, and I don’t think the show did nearly as convincing of a job at his redemption as they did with Bell’s. But similar to what I said above…Morris Chestnut is so attractive that it sucks to hate his character. The show did have a lot of good villains in seasons 1-3 now that I think about it. That part kinda fell off later in the series.

Still, neither Lane or Barrett is as hated for me as Abby Lockhart, although they came close. I’ve slowed down my latest ER watch considerably (I’m not as into it as I was a year or two ago now that I got off my nostalgia high), and I still want to smack her most of the time. Although I will say she is more bearable when the show focuses on her at work and her personal life isn’t depressing a laughing hyena.