S04.E08: The Mountain And The Viper 2014.06.01

[Amarsir]

This moat that Ramsey now holds is in the North. Do Brienne and Pod have to pass through that moat to get to the Eyrie?

 

To improve my understanding I've been trying to reference the map more. (That doesn't count as book talk, does it?) The Eyrie isn't all that far from King's Landing, really.  (Which raises the question why it took Arya and The Hound so long to get there, but there's probably no answer for that.)  But no, it's isolated off to the side "The East" as the show calls it and that's probably why they were able to stay out of the war so easily.

[Popples]

Is the surname Snow given to all bastard children and why? Thanks in advance.

 

Only in the North. In Dorne it's "Sand", i.e. Ellaria Sand, the paramour of Oberyn (RIP *sobs*). The other regions apparently have them but since they haven't been said on the show, I don't know them yet.

 

I knew Sansa would learn to play the game, she was just sitting back watching the fray learning the ropes. I'm also in the camp of Arya's maniacal laughter was one of those laugh or cry situations, that and she may have thought it hilarious that twice the Hound traveled all that way and isn't going to get paid.

[Hanged Man]

This moat that Ramsey now holds is in the North. Do Brienne and Pod have to pass through that moat to get to the Eyrie?

 

No. The Vale, and its castle the Eyrie, are in a mountainous region to the east of the Kingsroad as the road goes north from the Crossroads Inn.  Moat Cailin is on the Kingsroad about halfway between Crossroads Inn and Winterfell.

When the opening credits are just starting you can see a big white area north of King’s landing. That is the Vale. In this Episode, the Opening credits zoom up the Kingsroad to Moat Cailin and you can see the mountains of the Vale swoosh by on the right.

 

Tsk. Amarsir beat me to it by 15 minutes...

 

(Which raises the question why it took Arya and The Hound so long to get there, but there's probably no answer for that.)

 

Remember they were at the Twins at the time of the Red Wedding, so they had to go all the way back down the Riverlands.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Hanged Man

[Mya Stone]

She can't blame losing her child on Jorah or the Lannisters. She made the deal with the sorcerer lady and she went into the tent of her own free will.

I believe she believes Jorah set her up to be killed BECAUSE she was pregnant. Not that he was jealous then (although he probably was, heh), but that the main reason Robert took action against her and sent an assassin was because she was pregnant.

[iMonrey]

Oh, that makes sense Chillen. Thanks. And thanks Lady S for those screen caps of the Eyrie. I knew it looked different. The long, narrow bridge leading up to it was far more impressive looking than the narrow canyon they've been walking through this season. That doesn't really explain about the opening credits, though, because none of the structures in the animation look exactly like the sets.

[Aethermancer]

Saw that, too, but can't figure out/recall why that would be significant?  

 

If you think back to the scene where Ned resigns as hand, Robert Baratheon received a report that Dany was pregnant.  It was this report that caused him to put the assassination bounty on her (and her baby).   Thus Jorah's spying was what caused Dany to be targeted by assassins.

 

Though correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Barristan there at the time too?  I'm pretty sure he knew Jorah was spying on Dany all along.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Aethermancer

[Mya Stone]

Of course we were to see Oberyn's death as the result of pride, arrogance, whatever... I'm saying that the show, this season, in the limited number of minutes we've seen Oberyn act and react and the anecdotes of his skill as a warrior did not give me sufficient insight or evidence to be convinced that he would have made that fatal error. It felt out of character. I'm not a book reader; perhaps there is more hubris on the printed page but I really don't care what the books do.. I expected him to lose to the stronger Mountain, not defeat himself.

I truly believe that it was his thirst for vengeance that was his ultimate downfall. He was blinded by it.

He made his intentions known from the second he showed up on our screens. He was there to deliver justice to his sister's killer.

Imagine, if you will, you were finally, after 17 years, given the chance to kill your sister's killer. But you know he's just the fist. He didn't give the order. So you had the chance to kill two birds with one stone - deliver vengeance upon the killer, AND show the people that the man behind the curtain is every bit, if not more, terrifying that the man who did the killing.

That was his fatal flaw. He poked the lion too many times. And the lion finally poked back. (And poked his gorgeous eyes out in the process. :( )

[rollacoaster]

As soon as I finished watching the show on Sunday, I was so sad that I couldn't go check TWoP for my fellow viewers' reactions to that final scene.  Since I've been reading the forums here at Previously.tv, I gotta say I'm very happy with the level of discourse I'm finding here. :)

 

I covered my eyes when I saw Oberyn's teeth knocked from his head and go plinking on the cobblestones.  I peeked, then quick peeking when I saw the Mountain's fingers go into Oberyn's eye sockets.  I cringed through all the rest of the horrifying sounds.  The sound his head made when it popped will haunt me for a very long time.  I finally looked when all the noise stopped......................wow.   What a terrible way to go.  This show manages to traumatize me at least once per season, yet, I keep coming back for more.  

[dr pepper]

Why was Tyrion sentenced to die if the Mountain's dead too?   Was the Mountain dead?  I hope so, that was one gruesome death they showed, I wonder how many buckets of blood they had on set for that.  Yikes.

 

The Mountain has a spear though his gut, something that's often fatal in our world of microsurgery, transfusions and antibiotics. So he looks like a goner. But he's not gone yet. Oberyn is definitely gone. That makes the Mountain the winner, and so Tyrion is guilty. Not just regular guilty, he's divinely guilty.

Edited June 2, 2014 by dr pepper

[dr pepper]

I am so butthurt from the entire Oberyn death.

 

We all are. This show needs its own brand of ice filled donut pillow.

[Meredith Quill]

 

I covered my eyes when I saw Oberyn's teeth knocked from his head and go plinking on the cobblestones.  I peeked, then quick peeking when I saw the Mountain's fingers go into Oberyn's eye sockets.  I cringed through all the rest of the horrifying sounds.  The sound his head made when it popped will haunt me for a very long time.  I finally looked when all the noise stopped......................wow.   What a terrible way to go. 

 

This was almost identical to how I watched it :(

 

I adored Pedro’s portrayal of Oberyn and knowing he was also a fan and so thrilled to be a part of the show (When asked in an interview, what he will take away from his experience, he says “Playing the best character I have ever played in the greatest cast I have ever been a part of, and working with HBO and Dan and David was an opportunity of a lifetime.”) makes his exit all the more sad imo. *sob*

 

On a lighter note, the last scene Pedro filmed was much less brutal, allowing for a peaceful last day on set:


“It was really lovely and peaceful. It was the scene strolling through the garden with Lena Heady and the last thing they shot was when I was looking out into the Adriatic Sea. Then I tore off my costume and jumped into the ocean. Then I said goodbye to everybody and got in the van and rode to the airport.”

So long Red Viper, gone from our screens but not our hearts! <3

[bluvelvet]

I don't think Ramsey would do anything to Roose, the hobbit psychopath loves his father, that much is clear and he obviously takes the Bolton traditions very very seriously. The look on his face when Roose berated him and now when he made him an official Bolton says it all. That was actually a pretty nice scene between daddy and son sadist.

I'm worried for poor Walda, what if she becomes pregnant.

Edited June 3, 2014 by bluvelvet

[dr pepper]

Attention passengers: All flights will be delayed while that sopping wet man in his bikini briefs signs about a thousand autographs!

[seacliffsal]

Sansa really came into her own this episode.  All those months of being at court and watching the interplay while fearing for her life showed her how to play the game.  When Littlefinger went to her room, she was so calmly sewing the feathers onto her dress.  She is serene in her new role and new power.  By declaring herself to the council, she has secured her place at the Eerie (the council knows that Robin is crazy).  Her entrance coming down the stairs was magnificent-she even carried herself completely different.

 

I was surprised by how much of the episode I just didn't care about.  I didn't need the opening scene and another developing love story.  Too much time on Dany's story when really the only thing that happened was Jorah's banishment.

 

Really didn't care about the brain damaged Lannister who smashed beetles.  I was getting super anxious watching that scene as it just went on and on and I wanted to see other plotlines.  Poor Arya, just realizing that she really is alone and that she won't ever see family again....

[CeeBeeGee]

He mentioned his fifth daughter because she was named after Elia, but before that he said he had eight total. Yes, eight daughters.

Oberyn-as-Tevye: I have eight daughters!

Ramsay Snow Bolton: Tra-di-TION! Tradition!

[TooMuchCoffee]

I truly believe that it was his thirst for vengeance that was his ultimate downfall. He was blinded by it.

He made his intentions known from the second he showed up on our screens. He was there to deliver justice to his sister's killer.

Imagine, if you will, you were finally, after 17 years, given the chance to kill your sister's killer. But you know he's just the fist. He didn't give the order. So you had the chance to kill two birds with one stone - deliver vengeance upon the killer, AND show the people that the man behind the curtain is every bit, if not more, terrifying that the man who did the killing.

That was his fatal flaw. He poked the lion too many times. And the lion finally poked back. (And poked his gorgeous eyes out in the process. :( ) 

 

I know.  It's just that I'm still in denial. 

[Mya Stone]

I know.  It's just that I'm still in denial. 

 

Same here, my dear. Same here. 

[WatchrTina]

 

Though correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Barristan there at the time too?  I'm pretty sure he knew Jorah was spying on Dany all along.

 

There was an episode last season when Ser Jorah asked Ser Barristan if he sat on the privy council (apparently the head of the Kingsguard usually does) but Ser Barristan said no -- he had killed too many of King Robert's friends so he was denied a seat on the council.  Ser Jorah was clearly wondering what Ser Barristan knew about him and his spying for Varys.  I think it's safe to assume from what we just saw that this is the first Ser Barriston learned of Ser Jorah's role.

Edited June 3, 2014 by WatchrTina

[ihartcoffee]

I know.  It's just that I'm still in denial.

Me too, it was painful to see him go out like that. It was very hard to look at for me. I thought the blood flowing between the floor boards was gory in the wildlings killing spree. That was nothing.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Judging from the above post, Pedro took his character's demise in stride.

 

Oh how I would've loved to be the towel that dried his body.

 

Or

 

The PA that helped dry him off.

 

 

 

Poor Richard Madden cried the entire flight  back home, after filming the Red Wedding.

[Constantinople]

Continuing to focus on the positive

 

Good News
 

Good News Part II
 

And now, Good News Part III:

 

1. Gilly's still alive

 

2. The phrase "From this day till your last day" usually spells longer-term bad news for speaker or the recipient of that phrase
   a. Joffrey said he would love Margaery "from this day till your last day".  We all know how that turned out.
   b. Theon told Robb that Theon's sword was Robb's "from this day until my last day"

I'm not saying Roose or Ramsay are dead men, I'm just saying it's an unlucky phrase.

 

Even saying "from this day" as part of "from this day till the end of time" can be bad luck (see Slynt, Janos; for that matter, Littlefinger is slipping).

 

3. Tyrion's imprisonment will end soon.

 

4. The Mountain confessed his crimes

 

5. Black Jack, Kegs & Mully are cool names and would be a great name for a 3 person band (Kegs should be the drummer)

 

6. Edd was actually focused on the positive about the chance that Gilly might have survived the attack on Molestown

 

7. Arya isn't the only Stark daughter who can put a needle to good use

 

8. We only saw the end result of the flaying and were spared the gruesome details

 

9. Barristan didn't blindside Jorah.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Constantinople

[fantique]

WOW! That was something else...

 

Oberyn, come back!!!!!!!! You can haunt Cersei into self-destructive insanity (you know as opposed to her sanity destroyinh others).

Traumatised. Sad. Pissed. They got me again, damn it! I first thought, when there is that little time afforded to the actual fight, the Mountain is going to win. Then the fight starts and Oberyn is blowing all of our minds, I start to hope. As soon as his rant & rage begins I start thinking: 'This is a bit not good. Pleeeeaaaase just finish him!'

That killing shook me more than the Red Wedding and all deaths combined. I couldn't watch nor listen. I just saw the aftermath of what was left of his head. Nightmares to come for sure. I am really scared about Tyrion now. I don't care how but they need to make this death sentence go away.

 

I actually liked this episode. I feel like all the scenes are nuggets of information in the political, georgraohical and emotion evolution of the characters shown.

I like that we are seeing the fruits of the seeds sown a while ago that Sansa is learning. Because while her repeating 'Joffrey is my king. I love him. My family are traitors. etc.' annoyed the heck out of me and made me want to slap her, it showed that she knew what to do to stay alive. Tyrion did say after she refused to complain following the scene where Joff pointed the crossbow at her in the throne room; 'She will survive us all.' He recognised that she had survival instinct. And she likes to downplay herself to erase suspiscion, calling herself a stupid little girl who can't lie. I like that while you are floored by the foresight she had to reveal her identity, if you pay attention to her actions from the beginning you realise it is not as sudden as you think. I love Arya's development as well. It mirrors Sansa's and yet it is so different. She is learning to be a warrior as opposed to a Lady and she is also showing darker tendencies. I like the symmetry there and the fact that as Sansa puts her big woman dress on, Arya is still dressed like a boy saying 'I am not a lady'. Of course her bursting out in laughter was amazing on so many levels. So yeah, Go Stark Girls!

 

Missandei and Grey Worm were cute. It was nice to have a light hearted reprieve. I'd like to think that maybe the Unsullied not being as uninterested as presumed will be an interesting point later on. Theon/Reek and the Boltons' situation just makes me angry. I have no love for theon but that mindless creature he's become is synonymous to death in my opinion. I am seriously doubting he will ever be truly back to himself. Great acting though. Ramsey getting his last name incited an Arya-like response from me. Of course the torture freak gets to be legitimate! Duh!

I think Dani had to exhile Jorah. She is a Queen, if she shows that betrayal goes unpunished, that is a horrible precedent. Establishing her reign is already an uphill battle, showing what will appear as weakness would be a fatal error. Of course it will hurt her in the long run, that's why Tywin had the pardon sent. In this case though; she had no choice. On a perspnal note as well, his reporting of her pregnancy is what pushed Robert's hand in making an assassination attempt.

 

PS: Sansa's hair did look black to me as well when she came down the stairs. It was weird, I almost squinted to make sure it was her. Also Sophie Turner's real hair colour is blonde so my guess is her hair changes when the colour starts to come off and then they apply it again. They can't do it too much or it would break.

[CatMack]

 

Someone said they are shipping Missandei and Grey Worm.  So am I!! Can it even be possible?  I mean, even Dany asked if he is missing both the frank and the beans.  Castration means the loss of use of the testicles (not necessarily the removal of), which greatly limits the production of testosterone.  And decreased libido.  And forget about reproducing.  Aint happening.  So, can they be together “That Way?”

 

Obviously in a world/society that values reproduction and heirs a lot, lack of ability to reproduce is probably usually a major detriment for most people.  However, these two aren't in normal circumstances, I doubt either of them care as much about that as people in less dire circumstances would.  Even if the, ahem, stones and pillars are both gone, and he can feel zero sexual libido, they can still have a romantic relationship.  I mean, he's essentially (assuming he has no equipment left) asexual.  There are people in real life with fully functioning equipment who are asexual.  He may not have a sex drive, but he can still feel emotional love for her (asexual and aromantic are not the same thing), and since there are other ways to have sex than penis-in-vagina it's even possible for him to pleasure her (which he could very well be open to doing if he cares for her - even if he reaches no physical climax, bringing pleasure to someone you love can be very intimate and rewarding). 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Her entrance coming down the stairs was magnificent-she even carried herself completely different.

I really loved the contrast between her meek, hunched over posture while talking to the Vale lords and lady at the beginning of the episode and her the proud way she drew herself up to her full height and walked down the stairs in such a regal way that showed she now realizes the power she possesses.

ETA: Although her hair looked darker, I'm 99% sure it was just the lighting and not that she had dyed it as some others suggested earlier. There was a big window behind her so her face was shadowed, which would also explain why her hair looked darker in that scene. I'm pretty sure it was still red though.

Interesting that she lets GoT color her hair. If I were her, I would tell them to just put me in wigs, especially now that she's up at the Vale where it's colder!

[Ronin Jackson]

Oberyn was a flawed person, I don't think his appeal was that he's some kind of virtuous saint of a man.  Tyrion also has his flaws.  Jon Snow is a far nobler character... but he's also not nearly as interesting or charismatic.  I'd watch an Oberyn scene over a Jon Snow scene 10 out of 10 times.   Robb Stark was also a far nobler character and I wasn't nearly as put off by his shocking death (and yes I was shocked, in that case in a good way though I was most disturbed by Talisa's death).  I'm just bothered by how blatantly manipulative Oberyn's entire character arch seems to be in the story... it made me conscious of the writer's intentions in a way that pulls me out of the story rather than pulling me into it.

 

My butt hurt here may not last past the next episode, I must admit... but until then... damn you GRRM!

Edited June 3, 2014 by Ronin Jackson

[Macbeth]

I would like to thank "The Walking Dead" for desentisizing me to truly gruesome scenes.  I would never had made it through Oberyn's death without its teachings.  Of course GOT does gruesome very well when needed - but TWD is more consistent in this area.

 

Who would think I needed to be desentisized to horror and suffering in order to enjoy quality shows?

[TooMuchCoffee]

There is a photo of Sansa in the black feather dress over in the Costuming (wardrobing)  thread. It's beautiful.  Her hair is definitely black. I initially thought it was the backlighting as well. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by TooMuchCoffee

[fantique]

There was something really Greek tragedy like about Tyrion's bettle crushing story. I liked that he, a highly intelligent person, was wondering about the inner workings of a simpleton and couldn't understand. It feels like a life lesson in GoT. Sometimes, you will be crushed because there is a grudge or you stood up to the wrong person. But really most of the time, your life is at the mercy of capricious forces who mostly like demonstrate how strong they are because that's how they feel powerful. In the Greek Pantheon, the gods are not nice and benevolent. They are selfish and get jealous if you start worshipping another deity. The hardest things to predict and counter are the ones that have no rhyme nor reason to them. I am left wondering if the show was only making this speech relevant to this episode or are they making it a statement about the whole series. I guess it's open to interpretation. I am probably reading WAY too mcuh into it. And showing my nerdy side by bringing up ancient greek religion off the top of my head.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I like that Missandei got naked.  In a show full of stunningly beautiful women, I think Nathalie Emmanuel just might be the most stunning.  I'm all for the Grey Worm-Missandei romance as long as it means more naked Missandei.

 

 

 

 

        It was the first time in a long while, that I've seen a nude scene and it  wasn't gratuitous. Didn't com across that way to me.

 

        The camera loves the actress, she is beautiful. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Constantinople]

So, the cast spoiled Oberyn's manner of death in a photoshoot, then.

 

Also, really, Oberyn telling Ellaria he'll never leave her alone in this world? That's worse than all those Stark men making promises they can't keep.

This is starting to look a little fishy

 

Oberyn is friends with Cersei & The Mountain?

I'm starting to think this is all some kind of set-up or staged combat.

Either the real Oberyn didn't die, or they did they old "crush the watermelon on top of the guy's head to make it look like he's dead" scam. A bit like that time Bones slipped Kirk a mickey during his fight with Spock about whether Spock's fiancee would end up with Spock or Stann (or whatever that drip's name was).

Edited June 3, 2014 by Constantinople

[bluvelvet]

*looks at pictures above*..Pedro is one sexy man...

 

I assumed Sansa put feathers on the dress to simulate a mockingbird since that is Littlefingers personally made Sigil, also we have never seen any feathered clothing on neither Robyn or Lysa.  Actually since Robyn is technically in mourning, why isn't he also in black, as is Sansa/Littlefinger make a matching set *ugh*.  Littlefinger was looking at Sansa with open LUST, he is very good at hiding his true emotions but we have seen him slip a few times with Sansa. I wonder how long the mask will last until he slips and someone else catches on.

 

Sansa saying"I know what you want" could be a reference to their conversation when he told her he wants everything.

 

While the beetle story was boring, I assume it will come into play at some later date or season.

[areca]

Someone said they are shipping Missandei and Grey Worm.  So am I!! Can it even be possible?  I mean, even Dany asked if he is missing both the frank and the beans.  Castration means the loss of use of the testicles (not necessarily the removal of), which greatly limits the production of testosterone.  And decreased libido.  And forget about reproducing.  Aint happening.  So, can they be together “That Way?”

 

 

Yanno, no one in the show has ever used the word castration or eunuch.  Just a referral to 'being cut'.  

 

If I was a slave holding bastard, and didn't care how many of the boy slaves died in childhood (and I think someone commented that most of the potential Unsullied didn't make it), I'd keep the useful to warriors bit and remove the useless to masters one.  Just sayin'.

Edited June 3, 2014 by areca

[screamin]

Saw that, too, but can’t figure out/recall why that would be significant?

 

 

I think that King Bob only sent assassins after Danaerys after she got pregnant - and thus started seeming like a more imminent threat of spawning a dangerous new Targaryen Dothraki dynasty. And it was through Jorah's report that Robert heard about the pregnancy. Barristan was in the Red Keep in KL at this time and could have appraised Danaerys of this fact.

[Guest Anarres]

All I know is that there is no way in hell Jorah's getting out of the friendzone now.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Anarres

[LittleIggy]

Shoot me, I think Littlefinger is hot. I love Aiden G.

Oberyn, don't you know to finish him off when he is down? That's how Bond villains get killed!

Oh I hate that bitch Cersai even more. Smirking as dear old dad proclaimed her brother's death sentence.

[lucindabelle]

I do too. Though I did notice his accent was turning welsh last night.

[Taget]

1)

Cersei looked a little worried about that, her only daughter is there after all.

 

I've been thinking just that.  Partly due to the foreshadow nature of Oberyn constantly saying "We don't hurt little girls."  The Lannisters have already killed the ruler of Dorne's sister and her children.  And not just that she was raped.  Now the exact same man who did that just murdered and mutilated his brother in a contest set in motion by the Lannisters with his brothers killer selected by Cersei Lannister.

 

2) I knew Oberyn ws gone when I saw his fancy little acrobatic display.  It reminded me of the scene with the sword master in Indiana Jones.  Just ask Bronn.  Winning is not about being pretty.  It's about killing the other guy.

 

3) Ygritte should be ashmed of herself.  It's one thing to slaughter men, women, and children... but to kill the best belcher in Westeros?  That's barbaric and uncalled for!

 

4) Having a huge open pit with a thousand foot drop where the ruler of the Vale likes to hang out at without any guards whatsoever must've opened Sansa's eyes.  She is now two flying men away from potentially ruling the Vale.  The question is will she know when to get rid of Littlefingers when the time comes?  Or will she make the same mistake as Ned of trusting him.

 

Now if Sansa could ever rule the Vale I'd be scared.  An overwhelming sense of victimhood can legitimize all types of brutality.  

 

5) Dany had no choice but to dismiss Jorah who I wish had come clean about what happened earlier.  She risked losing face with the rest of her entourage if she allowed his treachery to go unpunished.  That said this is not a good thing.  Daario isn't someone to be trusted.  And Grey Worms growing idealism is something that may boomerang back on Dany.

 

6) Tywin REALLY wants Tyrion dead.  He looked disturbed when Oberyn was winning and thrilled when Oberyn died.  And given I don't expect The Mountain to survive this he could have called it a tie.  I guess Tyrion might still be pardoned and sent to the wall to convince Jaime to leave the Kingsguard.  But like cousin Orson I think Tywin would just rather smash beatles.

 

I doubt Tyrion survives this since he really is not equipt to do anything else.  He's a spoiled Lordling with no skills whatsoever.  And a dwarf.  Plus him alive puts a block on Sansa's story moving forward.  And the anger his death will imprint in Jaime would help drive his story in an interesting direction.  While on a human level I want him to live on a creative level the story might be better off without him.

 

7) Roose may just be the best father alive in Westeros.  Of course when your competition is the likes of Balon Greyjoy that is no big accomplishment.  But it takes a special father to appreciate someone who (as Roose Bolton puts it to Walder Frey) "does things differently."

 

It's also good to see Reek remains such a loyal pet to Ramsay.  I prefer cats but Reeks seem like the can be nifty too!  It all shows what good solid training can do.

 

[Ronin Jackson]

Wow, I was so warped by the ending it took me almost 24 hours to remember the episode had the most glorious nude scene on the show so far. That's actually pretty remarkable.  I will have to therapeutically replace all memory of Oberyn's skull getting crushed with images of Nathalie Emmanuel bathing.  +1 to all comments that she's the show's most beautiful actress... 

[CletusMusashi]

I watched it again today. The fight scene is easier to deal with if you know how much of an over-the-top ending is coming.

Then you just end up watching it as comedy. 

My brain no longer acknowledges Mountie's actual last words, because my brain is stuck hearing him as Dr. Kelso from "Scrubs."

Not quite as random as it sounds, if you know your Kelso jokes.

"You raped my sister, you murdered-"

"Hey, what has two thumbs and doesn't CARE about your damned sister? THIS GUY!" (squish!)

[bunnyblue]

 

 

But the honor of the day... fuck GRRM!

God I'm so fucking angry. And weirdly, thankful. I never thought that would happen. At least, it was surprising. Now, kill absolutely everyone. Team White Walkers!

 

Preach it!! A day later and I'm still angry at Oberyn's death. Actually, it's more at the gruesome manner of death. At least Ned Stark got a quick beheading. Oberyn's exploding head was over-the-top disgusting. It's like GRRM feels like he has to top every death. At this point, I'm waiting for Jon or Tyrion to be torn apart from limb to limb. As if all the Stark deaths weren't enough, Oberyn's death finally convinced me that any person with an ounce of decency on this show will meet a gruesome death. I've reached the point where I want the White Walkers to invade and kill everyone or for Dany's dragons to scorch all of Westeros. 

 

While I feel bad for Tyrion (in the words of Han Solo, "I don't know how we're gonna get out of this one"), I feel worse for poor Ellaria. Moments after telling Oberyn not to leave her alone in the world, she had a front row seat to his bloody violent end. I hope she makes it out King's Landing safely. And I will scream bullshit if the Mountain survives his injuries.

 

I'm glad Sansa finally decided to play the game. It was nice to see the girl who's been victimized and tormented for so long, expertly lie to the Vale Lords & Lady. I think she understands what Littlefinger wants from her and I hope she uses it to get what she wants. The smile she gave him in her chambers was that of a cunning woman. I want her to string him along and hopefully use her knowledge of how Lysa really died to make him protect her from the Lannisters. 

 

When she walked down the stairs all I could think of was Carol Burnett's "Gone With the Wind" curtain dress. Girlfriend had some serious shoulder action going on. And what was with the monstrous necklace hanging from her neck. The whole get-up seemed way too goth to me.

 

Isn't it wonderful that Ramsay Snow is now Ramsay Bolton?! If anyone on this show needed to be rewarded and be embraced by his loving daddy, it's that guy. Gah! Of course I expect no less from the twisted mind of GRRM. I really don't understand all the screen time given to Ramsay, Roose, and Theon. I'd rather see more of Jon, Brienne, Davos, and even Yara. You know, decent people.

Edited June 3, 2014 by bunnyblue

[SourK]

I was actually pleased and impressed that Littlefinger chose to groom Lyssa's son rather than sticking him in a tower room somewhere.  Training him is an investment in Littlefinger's long term success.  After the conversation with the Vale family leaders, it seems like the son might be turned into a new rallying point for families against the Lannisters.

 

Initially, this sounded more to me like the Westeros equivalent of sending your step-son to boarding school, but then it sounded like maybe they were all going together at the end, so I'm confused.

 

ETA: Although her hair looked darker, I'm 99% sure it was just the lighting and not that she had dyed it as some others suggested earlier. There was a big window behind her so her face was shadowed, which would also explain why her hair looked darker in that scene. I'm pretty sure it was still red though.

 

Yeah, I couldn't tell either. At first I thought it was black, then I thought it was the lighting, then I looked at that photo in the costume thread where it's definitely black, and now I wonder how on earth she managed that. I guess, if she's going out, then the hair colour will help to disguise her, but with the hair and the clothes all at once, it comes across like a cheesy "evil" transformation, like this is Legend or something.

[Jeebus Cripes]

I'm sure that won't happen. That infected wound would probably finish him before he got a chance to be a hero! 

 

Shit! I was so upset about The Most Awesome Prince Ever dying that I totally forgot to worry about that festering wound the Hound has! So, now Tyrion and the Hound are both in the dead pool. 

 

Some other positive take aways

 

The beetle lived.

 

Bwah! I will admit that I was a little worried that Tyrion might squash it, even though it would be out of character.

 

When she walked down the stairs all I could think of was Carol Burnett's "Gone With the Wind" curtain dress. Girlfriend had some serious shoulder action going on. And what was with the monstrous necklace hanging from her neck. The whole get-up seemed way too goth to me.

 

Yes, WTF was that ugly necklace? I only viewed it once, but it looked like a big ass prohibition symbol, but why in the world would she wear such a thing?

 

The more I ponder Oberyn's untimely demise the more pissed I get for allowing GRRM to manipulate me this way. He fucking knew that most fans would assume that Tyrion would survive somehow, thus Oberyn becoming his champion was almost a sure bet for both parties winning. All the talk about what a great fighter The Red Viper was; The vengeance/justice storyline, and the fact that his arch nemesis is his opponent; His having a seat at the small council; All of these things set Oberyn up as a major player. Having his head get squashed like a grape by the man who brutalized his family is so heinous. GRRM is an asshole. I'm almost tempted to say it was smart because it caught so many people off guard, but no. It's just an assy thing to do. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by Jeebus Cripes

[Nonlinear]

I am so disappointed the way Oberyn was killed. He was portrayed to be much much smarter than that and there was no way in hell The Mountain could have taken him down like that.

 

Oberyn is a character I admired but now he comes across as a joke! "Today is not the day I will die", please!

Edited June 3, 2014 by Nonlinear

[Mya Stone]

DONNING MOD ARMOR: Please, for the love of the old gods and the new, do NOT quote Wikipedia articles here. This being a No Book Talk thread means just that - no book talk. If you look up a character on Wiki, you WILL be spoiled of their fates in the books. Offending posts have been deleted.

The only thing we are comfortable with linking to in the episode threads labeled No Book Talk are the HBO viewer guides. That way we (as book readers and mods) know exactly where the information was pulled from, as it can sometimes give us a moments hesitation to remember if certain things were said in the books, show, or both.

Hope that helps.

[Jaded Sapphire]

I find that GOT usually benefits from a rewatch; I had a much better appreciation of the beetle story once I knew where it was going. It also made it clearer that Jaime did indeed get the point after a bit.

Two episodes in a row and two childhood Tyrion stories I could personally relate to.
1. My brother once told me about how it was very easy to make me cry as a toddler by pretending you were sad in front of me. No matter how happy I was, smiling or even laughing, make a sad face and I'd immediately start to cry. Not nearly as cruel as Cersei but it was clear that my brother got a certain enjoyment out of it that upset me when he said it.
2. Same brother, ran 'experiments' on bugs, lizards, spiders etc (no mammals). Even when I was too young to understand why, it never sat well with me. I made an 'ant farm' out of a Barbie fridge once. I thought I had them contained to one area so I poured in some water to clean out the rest of it... BOOM, 30+ drowned ants. I was 10 and devastated for a week.

For all this talk of how disgusting and gory Oberyn's death was, they actually didn't show much. It was mostly the sound and (our) imagination. I rewatched with the sound down and didnt wince at the end - there is no explosion, just a slight bulge, a reaction shot, and then the aftermath. (Not that I don't understand that that's probably enough for some people. I just thought it interesting that some here seem to be implying that they saw his head pop)

Edited June 3, 2014 by Jaded Sapphire

[tricksterson]

Yeah, stiletto heels!  because it's not as if Sansa's already taller than everyone in the show except the Mountain and Hodor!

[Mz Anthrope]

Yeah, stiletto heels!  because it's not as if Sansa's already taller than everyone in the show except the Mountain and Hodor!

And Brienne.  :-)

[polyhymnia]

I enjoyed Arya laughing but I liked the bit of dialogue right before when she said something about thinking Joffrey's death would make her happy and the Hound grumps "Nothing makes you happy."  That made me chuckle more than her hysterical laughter.

 

I averted my eyes before the actual skull crushing.

 

Was Sansa's hair a different color in her Mockingjay getup or was it just the lighting?

[taanja]

 

Oberyn act and react and the anecdotes of his skill as a warrior did not give me sufficient insight or evidence to be convinced that he would have made that fatal error.

 

 

I have not read the books either.

 

I go off the TV show and everything I have seen about Oberyn has shown me that yes---he is a man full of pride and arrogance. It made perfect sense to me that he would be a victim of his own failings. He didn't believe in his own mortality and that is what got him in the end,.

[MrWhyt]

 

I go off the TV show and everything I have seen about Oberyn has shown me that yes---he is a man full of pride and arrogance.

He was also a man with a mission, to bring his sister's murderers to justice. He said it in his first episode "lannisters aren't the only ones who pay their debts". He got the puppet, he was after the puppetmaster.