S04.E08: The Mountain And The Viper 2014.06.01

[Arynm]

I love TV Sansa! I thought book-Sansa was boring and a total waste of time, so I love what they are doing with her. She looked great at the end in that dress. Poor Arya, she is never going to find her family is she? The Mountain was poisoned for sure, they mentioned it on the show, after the episode. I wish Oberyn had been able to get what he wanted with out dying, but it was a great scene regardless. I can't wait for the rest of the season! Some of the best scenes are coming up and I can not wait to see what happens! After that... I havent read the newest book yet, but I read a synopsis, and I can't remember a single thing about it. That worries me.

[Ms. Poly Theist]

 

As far as there not really being any set up for Qyburn being a possible replacement for Moon Boy and the Kettleblacks, I felt like that might have been the point of havingJJaime question Cersei about whether or not she lets Qyburn touch her. Cersei then asks Jaime if he's jealous.

 

Ah, thanks, Avaleigh, I'd totally forgotten about that. Still, that's not much from the show on this subject.

 

Did Roose legitimize Ramsey in the books?  I honestly don't remember that.

 

Yes, remember that the Bastard Letter (or "pink letter") is signed "Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell."

[mad_typist]

I'm not liking Ygritte much either at the moment.  It's not like those sex workers were living comfortable lives of privilege, and she killed them without blinking.

I actually like Ygritte in the show a lot right now. I think it emphasizes that however cute her romance was with Jon Snow, she's still a Wildling, and the Wildlings are a force to be feared. I also like Rose Leslie playing Ygritte with a certain dead-eyed sadness/resolve. It actually makes me hope she does an action film at some point - she's got a great physicality that actually looks convincing when she fights.

[Fen]

I only managed to watch a split second of Oberyn's death and hid my eyes for the rest.  Horrible.  Awful.

[SFwatcher]

Re: Beetle topic;

 

I figured this speech was a bit of foreshadowing for how the Viper would meet his demise, actually... Literally crushed to death by a dim-witted killing machine.

 

Other than that... I actually wanted there to be some more time spent in KL... a bit more of Tywin reacting with a Burns-like "excellent" upon hearing the news that Oberyn basically took the bait and would fight the Mountain... maybe a little fretting about if the Viper got killed whether that would open up a new war, etc. etc.

 

But alas, the time in KL was too short, and yet another quality character shuffled off his mortal coil... The Viper could have used some advice from Tuco: If you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk! 

[AuntiePam]

I think she was sewing the dress in her chamber.

That took me back to Sansa in S1, being so proficient in her needlework.  She must have been altering one of Lysa's dresses.  And that took me back to the Gone with the Wind parody on Carol Burnett's show. 

[mac123x]

I actually like Ygritte in the show a lot right now. I think it emphasizes that however cute her romance was with Jon Snow, she's still a Wildling, and the Wildlings are a force to be feared. I also like Rose Leslie playing Ygritte with a certain dead-eyed sadness/resolve. It actually makes me hope she does an action film at some point - she's got a great physicality that actually looks convincing when she fights.

 

My problem with it is they've made the Wildlings despicable barbarians.  Book!Wildlings had pretty sympathetic motives for what they were doing:

1.  White Walkers are coming

2.  The only chance we have to survive is getting south of the wall

3.  The only way we'll do that is through Castle Black

4.  Therefore we have to capture Castle Black.

 

When that failed, and Lord Commander Snow offered them an alternative (settle in the Gift and help us defend the Wall against our mutual enemy) they took it. 

 

Show!Wildlings are taking too much pleasure in slaughtering innocents.  I get that it's part of their plan to draw out the Night's Watch and make it easier to capture the castle, but it makes turning them into future allies so much less plausible.

 

That took me back to Sansa in S1, being so proficient in her needlework.  She must have been altering one of Lysa's dresses.  And that took me back to the Gone with the Wind parody on Carol Burnett's show. 

 

LOL.  "I saw it in the window and I just couldn't resist".

[ASign]

Well the Big Thing for Blackwater was King's Landing being saved by Tywin, so the Big Thing here could be The Wall being saved by Stannis.

 

Other possibilities for that SL: (likely) Ygritte dying. Maybe making Jon Lord Commander. Maaaybe killing Janos Slynt.

I will give a hell yeah if they have Stannis coming to the wall this season. His character needs so quality action pronto.

[mad_typist]

You make a fair point, @mac123x - I do agree that the Wildlings' motivation is much more simplified in the show. It's hard to know how to feel about it, because I have a suspicion that this storyline will continue to deviate, perhaps significantly, from the book version. At this point, aside from capturing Mance Rayder, I'm not sure the wildlings will even have a part to play in the show.

[Avaleigh]

Another good small moment that made me laugh was when Tywin made the gesture to the musicians to start playing music to get the long winded Pycelle off the stage.

I'm really going to miss Tywin's presence. He owned this season from that very first scene where he's putting the wolf pelt on the fire.

Tommen was smart to stay at home.

Loras must be bummed too now that I think about it.

[ihartcoffee]

I only managed to watch a split second of Oberyn's death and hid my eyes for the rest.  Horrible.  Awful.

It was so hard to look at! I felt ill for about 30 min after. Why did he have to be so damned likable!! And overly cocky!

[TigerLynx]

I knew Oberyn died, but damn, I really wanted him to live.

 

I like what they are doing with Sansa and Arya.

[benteen]

Yeah, Ramsay got legitimized shortly after the Purple Wedding.  There's a chapter from Jaime's POV where Kevan is telling the newly-installed King Tommen to affix his stamp on a paper legitimizing Ramsay and making him Ramsay Bolton.

 

The scene in the show was interesting as Ramsay gets the type of moment reserved for heroes.  But then he quickly goes back to being a disturbing psycho.

[Fen]

It was so hard to look at! I felt ill for about 30 min after. Why did he have to be so damned likable!! And overly cocky!

 

I had thought, just for a moment, that maybe there was a tiny chance they had decided to deviate from the story, but no.  Heartbreak. 

 

I really didn't see the majority of it.  As soon as he started to push his thumbs forward, I shrieked and covered my face.  The screams from Oberyn and Ellaria were bad enough.

[lucindabelle]

I have read the books but seem to remember just bits of them... Reading too quickly I guess. I read them after one season of the tv show though so always pictured the actors. For that reason I've always liked Tyrian but he isn't the deal breaker for me. Weirdly I like Sansa and little finger both in the show (chemistry) and in the book. Though he's pretty irredeemable he's still... Sort of... Hot. I love her badass self though.

Aryas laugh was infectious though it strains belief that a message wouldn't get through.

Did the people hear Oberyns taunts before he died? I'd be a bit nervous if I were Tywin.

Cersei's jane shore moment (forced to walk in nightshift) can't come soon enough for me.

[Fen]

I think show!Sansa cottoning on to the game quicker than book!Sansa works due to the difference in age.  I'm interested to see where it goes.  Her relationship with Baelish seems much more of a give/take power thing, rather than strictly master/student.

 

Was it me, or was there a little pause and look when she mentioned her 'one friend' in Kingslanding that indicated she wasn't actually thinking of Petyr?

 

Jorah's exile moment didn't work for me.  Iain Glen was excellent - quietly interjecting how he had fought for Dany, killed for her, loved her - that he had saved her from the assassination attempt.  But Clarke's blank queenly face thing just didn't work here.  There wasn't any sense that she was remotely conflicted, or found what she was doing difficult in any way.  She didn't even stop to consider what Jorah said about Tywin's machinations.  I didn't even get a sense of real betrayal and pain.

 

I'm sure Missandei and Grey Worm are very sweet, but it felt like we spent an inordinately long time on them.

 

Alfie Allen was excellent again.  Theon seems like a shell. 

 

I need some sort of feelgood moment next week.

[Alapaki]

But Clarke's blank queenly face thing just didn't work here.  There wasn't any sense that she was remotely conflicted, or found what she was doing difficult in any way.  She didn't even stop to consider what Jorah said about Tywin's machinations.  I didn't even get a sense of real betrayal and pain.

 

 

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, we don't know exactly how much time elapsed between Barristan confronting Jorah and Jorah being summoned to the throne room.  It's possible that Dany had time to think it over, be conflicted, and come to a decision before calling Jorah in to give him "the verdict."

 

As far as not considering what might've motivated Jorah's outing, I'm not sure that really mattered if the bottom line for Dany was that she couldn't trust him anymore.

[Fen]

 

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, we don't know exactly how much time elapsed between Barristan confronting Jorah and Jorah being summoned to the throne room.  It's possible that Dany had time to think it over, be conflicted, and come to a decision before calling Jorah in to give him "the verdict."

 

I agree that logically, that might have happened.  However, if I'm expected to feel more for Dany - then I would had to have seen that.  Then the contrast between her being queenly in public and conflicted behind the scenes would have had impact.  As it is, I just didn't really feel anything on her behalf.  Maybe they wanted her to come off as unsympathetic, though?

[Brn2bwild]

 

I love TV Sansa! I thought book-Sansa was boring and a total waste of time, so I love what they are doing with her. She looked great at the end in that dress.

 

By the way, in an article I read, someone mentioned her hair was dyed in the last scene.  Did anyone else think that?  To me, it just looked dark because the setting was dark.

[Andromeda]

The awful "-icide" dialogue was reminiscent of the worst dialogue of Season 2, in which characters went on and on about points of vocabulary and grammar. ("Plots and schemes are the same thing" "that's why they're called wildlings" etc. )

 

I always wonder how things like this are going to translate for international viewers. It emphasizes that they're really speaking English, not the common tongue. Actually, the thought first occurred to me this episode when Missandrei was correcting Grey Worm's use of "I" versus "me."

 

I don't know what to think about this season. It's been a bit of a disappointment, but for me the source material also started to go off the rails when I read the non-KL things we're now seeing. So i don't know if it's really the TV show not being as good, or the story we're seeing having to pull from books 4 and 5, which were so draggy. Yes, they've added some new monologues (beetles, so YAWN), but I can't say that I'm missing anything major from the books that I was looking forward to. They're keeping the truly memorable scenes. For instance, I didn't mind reading about Sansa's activities in the Vale, but not a whole lot really happened if you think about it in terms of plot points, so I liked how it was condensed for the show.

 

I hadn't heard any kind of spoilers about Sansa going dark side in TWOW or later. (She certainly looked like Maleficent to me, LOL). I would need to see the character development connected better in the books -- so far in the books she's still being really passive, so last night I loved seeing her take action and get the upper hand on Littlefinger.

 

I hate Ygrette now, and so want her to die. Just no excuse. After the massacres these Wildlings are perpetrating on the populace, I can definitely see why the Night's Watch would turn on John for letting them come on through and take land. I wouldn't want those savages on my doorstep, either.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Andromeda

[Mya Stone]

It was definitely dyed, @Brn2bwild - almost black, but very dark brown.

[Haldebrandt]

ALL they had to do was give Emilia Clarke some fake tears there at the end, and Jorah's dismissal would have improved considerably.

[dr pepper]

OOOH. I knew it would be intense. I knew what would happen. I knew that knowing wouldn't help. I knew it would hit me hard. It still hit me harder than i had expected. Oberyn, your kung fu is strong, but you lack wisdom. Sorry.

 

The beetle thing really sounded like something from the book even though it wasn't.

 

Ygritte has never looked more fire touched.

 

I hope the Stark family weir grove eats Ramsay.

 

Yeah Sansa looked strong and sexy in that last scene, but dial it back, people-- in the book she's still what, 14?

 

Grey Worm, the "safe" boyfriend. WTH?

 

The lack of Kettle knights (heh, couldn't read that in the books without thinking about the battle of the Tweedles) is a bit of a problem. I don't see Qyburn selling her out so easily. They need somebody else to be hanging there when Cersei shows up at Inquisition HQ, under the mistaken impression that she's there as a witness for the prosecution. When she saw Kettleblack in the book, it wasn't necessary to hear him before realizing that oops, she's the defendant.

 

Of course they may delay that because once she's done the Naked Penitent Parade, there are no more King's Landing scenes. I don't actually mind that, a season just featuring Dorne, Essos, and viking politics would be fine. And i think the main players might relish a year to do just guest spots on other shows (for way more money than they would have made before), there's a small matter of character momentum.

 

Oh, yeah, one thing i suddenly realized about Tyrion. If this had been a regular show, he would probably have been written up as a jester without portfolio, doing voiceover commentary between scenes, and making everyone look like fools with his snarky interjections.

 

.

[Hanged Man]

As I read the Forum, I pick up points and questions and address them as I see them.

 

Wonder if we'll still have The Creature-Mountain from Dr. Franken-Maester.

We should, and since the construct never takes off his helmet, I won't have to grind my teeth at a 25 year old playing the part of a 36-44 year old.

 

I guess Gregor isn't going to die from the poisoning.

Remember that Oberyn used a very slow, very painful poison and that the Mountain's screams were heard throughout the castle until Cersei has him sent to the dungeons? the Red Keep? to die. I don't remember where he ended up. And he ended up lasting well into the next book iirc, albeit in pain and never really seen again.

 

Concerning Oberyn Flynning and doing acrobatics etc. in the duel: I originally hated it and thought it was silly and then I as I watched it a second time, it occurred to me, of course Oberyn would do the acrobatics and showy flashy fighting. Who else would do it but him? That is exactly the sort of duelist he would be. And then I started to appreciate all the unnecessary flourishes and spins and things that just wouldn't work in a normal gritty Westeros duel.

[Avaleigh]

Omg, dr pepper, the idea of season without King's Landing action makes me want to cry especially if it means more of the Wall, the Damphair, Essos, etc.

I'm actually okay with Sansa going to the dark side if that ends up happening although I don't really think it will. . As long as she continues to climb and gain power I'll be interested in seeing whatever she does.

I figured Lancel, not Qyburn, would end up being the person to sell Cersei out to the High Septon along with possibly Pycelle. I don't know that he'll be tortured but I can easily see Cersei taking one look at Lancel in the company of the High Septon to freak out and see instantly that he has been told everything about their relationship and Robert's murder.

[Meredith Quill]

By the way, in an article I read, someone mentioned her hair was dyed in the last scene.  Did anyone else think that?  To me, it just looked dark because the setting was dark.

 

Check the pic in this post from the Wardrobing in GoT thread, you can see her hair is black.

[Haleth]

I admit to watching the last few minutes through my fingers so I'm a bit confused. The Unsullied seem convinced that the Mountain died as well, right there, resulting in a "tie" to the trial by combat. I thought he was left standing over Oberyn's body. Yeah, we know he's toast in the future, but what did the Unsullied think they saw?

[Alapaki]

The Unsullied seem convinced that the Mountain died as well, right there, resulting in a "tie" to the trial by combat. I thought he was left standing over Oberyn's body.

 

 

After the Gallagher routine on Oberyn's skull, the Mountain fell off him to the side and the last shot was of them lying side by side.

[dargosmydaddy]

 

 

Incompetent wet nurses? Perverted maesters? Mentally ill children left to their own devices for hours at a time? (And we haven't even got to the fortune teller who terrorizes children.) Growing up there must have felt like such a dog eat dog environment.

Jaime telling Tyrion that some Maester who was employed by their family tried to touch him once made me lol for its black humor because of course the Lannister siblings would have predatory perverts to add to the pile of fucked up, disturbing incidents from their childhood. Honestly though what must that Maester have been on to have the nerve to attempt to pull some shit like that with Tywin Lannister's golden boy?

That scene was my favorite part of the episode. It made both of the Lannister boys feel very real.

 

Btw, what did Jaime say when he was rushing out of Tyrion's cell?

[benteen]

Benioff did say that Gregor was "stabbed in the gut and poisoned" during the making-of feature.

[WearyTraveler]

I don't recall Elia being "split in two" in the books.  So since that's how the show described her death, I had assumed it was because that was how Oberyn was gonna go.  I guess not...

 

In the books, it is mentioned a couple of times that The Mountain raped Elia so brutally that he "split her in two".  I think that's where the comment comes from

[AuntiePam]

 Maybe they wanted her to come off as unsympathetic, though?

I haven't sympathized with most of her decisions.  She doesn't listen, and neither Jorah nor Selmy have really pushed her, tried to get her to think past the moment. 

[Maximum Taco]

That scene was my favorite part of the episode. It made both of the Lannister boys feel very real.

 

Btw, what did Jaime say when he was rushing out of Tyrion's cell?

 

"Good luck today"

[TigerLynx]

Tyrion looked slightly hopeful there for a minute, and then it all went to hell.  The look on Jamie's face when Tyrion was sentenced to death was so sad.  Jaime really does love Tyrion.

[Holmbo]

Jorah's exile was robbed of it's emotional impact.  He's been at her side from day 1.  This summary dismissal isn't credible.  I question the decision to play it public.  Clarke, who I normally like, was problematic here.  Mostly, I blame the direction.  Did they have her looking straight ahead instead of down at him?  Or was the editing just weird?  Disappointing overall.

 

The extremely sloppy credits continue. Someone needs to get fired for this.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with both of these :)

I think that the way Dany acted was in character. She did everything she could to not show any emotions in that scene. The problem is we need to see the characters emotions to know what they're thinking. If they wanted to have her act all ice queen they should have had a reaction shot with Baristan telling her about the spying.

 

 

Slightly bummed that the Oberyn-poisoned-Tywin theory is officially dead at least in terms of the show.

 

Why is that? couldn't he have done it already? We saw Tywin eating and drinking during the trial break. Maybe Oberyn got something in that?

Though I'm not sure how they would reveal that. Maybe they'll just keep the corps stinking and have the audiences make their guesses. Just like in the book.

 

 

it's amusing to see so many strain to find some kind of explanation for that awful, awful beetle monologue.  That one was even worse than Alton Lannister's endless drooling reminiscence.  No amount of explanation will make up for the experience of sitting through that. My heart sank deeper with every meaningless sentence, to the point where I paused three times in disbelief.  Worst scene of the season, and possibly of the show.

 

During that whole monologue I was trying to think of why it was there. That scene was so weird. To give it some sort of meaning I've decided that it shows Tyrion's mind being a bit unraveled. I was kinda expecting him to crush the beetle (although wasn't that a wood louse? Bleugh I hate those) to somehow show how he now understood why someone would just like to kill for no reason.

No matter what the intentions where I agree it was a really bad scene.

 

Do you guys think that the show has invested too much in Tyrion? No one can deny that Peter Dinklage is an incredibly talented actor and Tyrion is a wonderful character, but when I see people in the Unsullied forums saying that they are going to quit watching the show if he dies, that makes me sad. I wonder if the show is really doing its job if people aren't invested enough in the whole story to abandon it if one character dies.

 

I know this is somewhat of a moot point, since of course, Tyrion DOESN'T die, but I guess I'd really like to see the show give us some other stories to get excited about.

 

I kinda feel that this still applies. Because even though he doesn't die he does kill Shae which is pretty damn bad.

I think that as the show goes on it might lose some of the appeal to the broader audience that roots for Tyrion and Dany because they are the good guys. I'm not saying that either of them are going to turn into a villain but I do think it will become harder to root for them.

 

But I'd say a lot of book walkers feel the same, that almost all of the characters have been stuck in an unending cycle of SUCK for two books, 2k pages, and ten years, and it's not  like a ASoS left all the characters in good spot. GRRM and the showrunners have got to start giving some of these characters unambiguous wins, however small, and I hope what we saw with Sansa was an indication of that.

 

I hope so. I have enjoyed the books and the show shatters the expected path. Not just for us viewers/readers but also for the characters. They will make plans or have ambitions and they will fail which will lead to other plots than expected. But if the show continuous in this theme, having every characters plans or ambitions fail and just turn into chaos, no way that will make for a good conclusion of the story. We need at least some of the good characters succeeding at something.

 

My last thought is that Sansa is now my favorite character in the show. I find her plot very interesting while still finding her likable. I hope D&D will think of interesting stuff to add for her in season 5 since she probably can't get to far into WoW because it will probably be affected by other characters plots.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Holmbo

[Zalyn]

Wow. This episode was like a stale Oreo that had been used to squash one of those dang beetles: The edges weren't so great, but the filling was super awesome.

 

Top part: boring.  Mole Town, Roose-fasa and Ramsimba, etc.  Alfie Allen did a nice job of just being precarious. Flayed man was a bit excessive, but oh well, compared to the end, it was bunnies.

 

Delicious creamy filling: The ladies owned the ep, IMO. 

 

SANSA OMG.  I loved this set of scenes; Sophie was brilliant, and the writing was another great twist for book readers that I really appreciate.  I like how they helped the audience out with Sansa's look over the shoulder at Petyr - she was intentional, but was it her idea or her checking in with him on their plan?  The following scene with Sansa calling out Petyr and showing up in Mockingjay Dress (and dyed hair) was a great bookend - I suspect it was one of Lysa's dresses, which makes her transformation from "looking like Catelyn Stark" (honest mother/wife) to now resembling Lysa (crazy dark lady in the Eyrie) very interesting. I am so glad that I at least get to see this move on screen since it clearly stalled out in the books. Add me to the TV!Sansa fan club

 

Also, the resolution on my vid was iffy, but it looked like the Lady of the Vale questioning Petyr and Sansa had a shifty-eyed look when Sansa commented on how "I did what he told me, as we all do" as if she totally got it.  Very nice touch - Sansa played that Lady especially well (again, a nice suggestion about Sansa's growing talents). 

 

Arya cracking up was absolutely perfect; I laughed along with Maisie just because I had to.

 

Daenarys' and Jorah's scene was good, but as someone pointed out, lacked a good emotional coda - a scene of Daenarys' emotional reaction afterwards (hopefully upset) would have helped a great deal.  It would have helped justify her refusal to look at him. Sir Iain Glen was amazing, as always - I could tell from his first scene back in Season 1 that Jorah was in love with Daenarys, and he has been in love with her in every scene since. 

 

On a superficial note, I confess to being happy that they prettied up both Littlefinger and Ser Jorah for TV; it makes scenes like the ones in this ep much more interesting.

 

End of creme filling.

 

Tyrion and Jaime - most boring, pointless scene I've seen yet (aka lower cookie part).  I was waiting to hear something like, "The beetles smelled like lemon when you crushed them!  And that helped his asthma!" or something.  But no.  Pointless filler.

 

But wait!  You get the squishy yucky bug guts as the chaser to it all in the form of dead Oberyn.  I had no one to watch the scene for me, so I had to choke it down so I wouldn't miss anything.  Coincidentally, I just had a conversation with a friend curious about my thoughts on whether there was gratuitous sex and violence in GoT; that, sir, was probably gratuitous (along with the flayed corpse).  Nice in book, probably not needed on screen if you're not going to deliver emotionally on it.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Zalyn

[Andromeda]

I admit to watching the last few minutes through my fingers so I'm a bit confused. The Unsullied seem convinced that the Mountain died as well, right there, resulting in a "tie" to the trial by combat. I thought he was left standing over Oberyn's body. Yeah, we know he's toast in the future, but what did the Unsullied think they saw?

My unsullied husband thought the Mountain was probably dead or dying and that it was a tie, and what would that mean for Tyrion? But since Tywin declared Tyrion the loser, he figured Tywin wasn't going to play by the rules anyway, assuming there were any rules.

 

Slightly bummed that the Oberyn-poisoned-Tywin theory is officially dead at least in terms of the show.

I never heard this theory. Tyrion clearly kills him in the book, so even if he was being poisoned, it doesn't change anything. Is it because his corpse smelled so bad? I figure corpses smelling as they rot is pretty much par for the course.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Andromeda

[ihartcoffee]

I love TV Sansa! I thought book-Sansa was boring and a total waste of time, so I love what they are doing with her. She looked great at the end in that dress. Poor Arya, she is never going to find her family is she? The Mountain was poisoned for sure, they mentioned it on the show, after the episode. I wish Oberyn had been able to get what he wanted with out dying, but it was a great scene regardless. I can't wait for the rest of the season! Some of the best scenes are coming up and I can not wait to see what happens! After that... I havent read the newest book yet, but I read a synopsis, and I can't remember a single thing about it. That worries me.

I love show Sansa too, in the books she is a bore. Count me among those who found the look between her and Peter steamy when she comes down the stairs. I know some were creeped out, to each their own I guess...

I too can't wait for some of the upcoming crazy events! I just read book 5 and it has some good stuff in it too that will be awesome to see.

[Pickles Aplenty]

I don't know what to think about ShowSansa since I happen to like BookSansa.  I know the show can't stick to the books letter for letter, but the whole Littlefinger/Vale story has been turned on its head, and it's just weird.  I'll wait and see if I like the changes.

 

Dany, well, I couldn't care less about her, and that scene with Jorah really let me down.  It was so flat...I read Jorah's love confession in the book as more desperate/pathetic, and the actor just mumbled it on the show.  Bleh.  Dany staring straight ahead made me think she had gone temporarily blind.

 

Missendai and Grey Worm are sweet, but they're not important.  Could have done without that bullcrap.  I loved watching Reek/Theon lose his shit at Moat Cailin, though.  Man, Alfie Allen is talented. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by Billina

[Andromeda]

I will give a hell yeah if they have Stannis coming to the wall this season. His character needs so quality action pronto.

My XFinity episode description for the final episode says "circumstances north of the wall are altered by an unexpected arrival." So he's coming...Finally!

 

Why did Sansa dye her hair? I don't get it. Is it because she's still going to pretend to be Petyr's neice to the people they're visiting, and red hair is a Stark/Tully giveaway? Or what? I feel like I missed something.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Andromeda

[Carrie Ann]

Yes, I assume Sansa dyed her hair because she is still going to be Alayne to the rest of the world. When she was speaking to the council, she said that no one could know where she was, and they said her secret was safe with them. I was freaking out when she said her real name, and later when Arya and the Hound did the same. In the books, they are so much more careful about that. It made me nervous.

 

I love the changes in the Sansa storyline, because it makes her more of an active participant in her own survival. I love Book Sansa, but I get why others find her boring or frustrating. It's hard to see a character who is so consistently acted on, who so rarely acts on her own behalf. I still worry about her, especially w/r/t Littlefinger, but I have high hopes for her.

[jjjmoss]

I hope D&D will think of interesting stuff to add for her in season 5 since she probably can't get to far into WoW because it will probably be affected by other characters plots.

 

Well, Daenerys is into book 5 by now and it mostly works by just moving around the chronology a bit. 

I suppose it depends on if Book 6 Sansa in the Vale is as isolated from other characters as Dany mostly has been.

There's not a super-obvious setup already in place to filler it up like with Arya/Hound being together all season instead of separating after the premiere fight. Which is okay because she basically doesn't interact with anyone else who matters for quite a long stretch in the book. If there's a similar situation with Sansa/Petyr, except that it's already in the book that they're not around any of the other major players, I could see the writers zipping through it up until the point when they have to intersect with others' journeys again.

[Tippi]

I find the Ramsay Snow-Bolton torture-a-thon is getting way tedious.  Also, I don't know if it is the actor or the way he is being directed, but he is so one note eeevvvil that whenever the show goes to his scenes I feel "Oh no, not him again."

[elzin]

 

I never heard this theory. Tyrion clearly kills him in the book, so even if he was being poisoned, it doesn't change anything. Is it because his corpse smelled so bad? I figure corpses smelling as they rot is pretty much par for the course.

 

There is a poison that stops up your bowels that is mentioned and maybe why Tyrion found Tywin on the throne, so to speak, was that he was constipated due to the poison. Then when he died, everything just fell apart inside.  Corpses would start to smell, but to that extent with a "fresh" body seemed excessive.  He wouldn't have been flowery by any means, having been shot through the groin, but something extra going on would explain why it was so bad it made people vomit.

[blixie]

 

I figure corpses smelling as they rot is pretty much par for the course.

 

Not after they're old school embalmed by the Silent Sisters, they make a point at the funeral that Tywin's body reeks above and beyond such a "treated" corpse (he's been drained of fluids, organs removed, and stuffed with flowers and some kind of salts, but he still REEKS). Oberon having poisoned Tywin means something to those of us who want Oberyn to have had his revenge complete, if he poisoned TL than even if Tyrion hadn't killed him he was still a dead man walking.  At the least the reeking bowels gave Tywin and inglorious farewell.

[Insomnia]

It's a very good thing that Cersei was so into watching the fight, else she might have noticed the sheer wall of manlove and adoration coming of Jaime while he was fighting The Mountain. If Oberon hadn't gotten his face smooshed, and with that little aside and smirk about the Maester trying to touch him when was young, and all the bad blood between the Lanisters and the Martells, I think Cersei would have some competition. It was just the sheer joy Jaime had at watching Oberon that I could see him being with someone not Cersei. I could just feel the vibes coming off the screen.

[DigitalCount]

Well, that happened.

 

I personally don't think Tywin was poisoned; it seems a bit too pat. Plus, it seems like a way to:

 

a) Make Oberyn out to be even more awesome, because everyone loves him

b) Weasel Tyrion out of the kinslayer curse

 

And at the very least, on the show it doesn't seem like Oberyn could have poisoned him. When would he have had the chance? Too many variables that make Oberyn out to be a ninja or something.

[lucindabelle]

I love watching Dany. I think it must be a girl crush. I wish I had her pores.

[Rhondinella]

Yeah I'm gonna need a medical professional to verify for me that the head exploding thing is actually physically possible.  Also, did you guys see that Pedro Pascal tweeted last night after the show just one word: "Ouch!"  Heh.

[jeansheridan]

I love Jaime & Tyrion together.  I think the beetle speech was a chance to see them discuss their childhood without getting sappy.  Tyrion has always been about cripples and broken things.  I will watch that scene just to see Jaime' s reaction shots.

 

I loved Mole Town.  Not my favorite bit in the books but we really need to see why the Wildings are not just misunderstood survivalists living beyond the wall.  Ygrette is a soldier so I don't see how her killing people for her cause is evil.  They are fighting to survive the White Walkers.  She comes from a kill or be killed world.  Mance is "kinder" because he grew up South of the wall.

 

Basically when Stannis shows up he is gonna be a savior and he is way overdue for his hero moment.

 

As for the Unsullied loving Tyrion...television is different than books.  Martin built a world at the expense of characters.  You read the books for the world but you know everyone is expendable.  Television doesn't work that way.  Audiences want leads.  The only way to get through this series is by following a core group--Jon, Theon, Dany, Arya, Tyrion.  Lose too many and why care anymore?  It is their specific stories we want not just this big, vaguely medieval world.