S06.E08: Jell-O Shots and the Truth About Santa

[paulvdb]

Quote

Bonnie pushes Christy to mend her relationship with Violet, and Adam prepares for the grand opening of his bar.

Airdate: November 15, 2018

[greekmom]

Best episode this season.

Violet is a little shit for not wanting a relationship with Christie. I mean Bonnie has done as much damage to Christie but Violet sees her as a life preserver??!!

The podcast was hurtful and the fact that she doesn't even want to try to have a relationship was so hurtful to Christie.  Not like Violet was a perfect angel (teen pregnancy, dropping out of college, working in a casino, could have a substance abuse herself...)

I actually liked Tammy this episode.

[LucyEth]

Find it weird that out of the blue they bring Violet back.  Not sure how she doesn't see that Bonnie did the same thing to her Mom yet she loves Bonnie.  I don't think Bonnie was sober while Christy was still an alcoholic and was there for Violet earning her the title 'life preserver".   Still no explanation about Roscoe or even a mention.  

[jmonique]

I've had to cut someone out of my life before because he was toxic and still hasn't changed. So I get it.

But really this smacked of the writers dragging Violet back into the narrative to shut up the fans who've been asking where the kids went.

[Winston Wolfe]

21 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Violet is a little shit for not wanting a relationship with Christie. I mean Bonnie has done as much damage to Christie but Violet sees her as a life preserver??!!

The podcast was hurtful and the fact that she doesn't even want to try to have a relationship was so hurtful to Christie.  Not like Violet was a perfect angel (teen pregnancy, dropping out of college, working in a casino, could have a substance abuse herself...)

Love your post.  I felt really bad for Christie this episode.  Violet came off as an older, more polished version of the hateful shrew she always was during the show's early run.  Yes, she had a bad childhood.  So did Christie, so did Bonnie.  It's called a cycle of dysfunction for a reason.  Violet airing the dirty laundry publicly and making an easy buck out of it doesn't sit well.  It kind of indicates she hasn't grown, still looking for an easy buck at someone's expense.  Really foul.  And, story for story?  Bonnie sounds like a far worse Mother than Christie ever was, and honestly, doesn't seem to be the better person in that equation even now, still does tons of shady stuff on a regular basis.  Yet she's the life preserver?  Yikes.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[jewel21]

I felt for Christie but I also felt for Violet in this episode. Violet clearly had tears in her eyes when Christie was talking during the podcast, but I could also understand her still  being wary of letting Christie back into her life, especially since she's been doing a lot better since she stopped speaking to her mother. What I didn't understand was her whole 'grandma is a life preserver' thing. 

I liked seeing the dog again. 

[torontomeridith]

This was such a great episode. 

Violet's feelings were valid based on her experiences and if we were only hearing her podcast, and Violet's opinions, we'd be applauding her choice to cut off Christie from her life. I could totally see myself listening to that podcast and thinking Violet was in the right. But since we know Christie so much better and seen her rise and fall and rise again over the seasons, we are naturally more inclined to feel for Christie. Violet is still pretty young and still had very raw feelings regarding her childhood. Look how often Christie STILL criticizes Bonnie's parenting and the two of them are on better footing. I imagine that time will eventually heal the rift between Violet and Christie, but it might not. 

So well done. It makes me want to call my mom. 

[mmecorday]

I can understand why Marjorie's son wouldn't want to have a relationship with her. That woman needs to have her named legally changed to Debbie Downer.

I'm wondering if we'll ever see Roscoe again or has he been pretty much Chuck Cunningham'ed?

Boy, is Bonnie setting herself up for some major temptation issues in the near future. Her fiance owns a bar and he'll probably keep alcohol in the house after they're married.

[Winston Wolfe]

35 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

I felt for Christie but I also felt for Violet in this episode. Violet clearly had tears in her eyes when Christie was talking during the podcast, but I could also understand her still  being wary of letting Christie back into her life, especially since she's been doing a lot better since she stopped speaking to her mother.

Christie has always been a very convenient scapegoat for her daughter.  In the past Violet has seen periods of time where she's "doing a lot better," self-sabotages, and the default is to always blame her mother.   Thinking about it, even though she sometimes backslides, Christie has made the most progress of any of the lead characters, guess that's why Violet's strident rejection really impacted me.  Aaargh, too much emotion over a sitcom....

Edited November 16, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[bybrandy]

Eh, Christie is still angry and bitter over the the mistakes Bonnie made and she's been part of every day of Bonnie's recovery, and her own.  Violet gets to be as chippy about it as Christie does.  Neither one is wrong in this situation.   And both of them could find healthier outlets for their feelings.

[EtheltoTillie]

Violet said she was better with Christy out of her life, but Christy is front and center with her doing the podcast. I felt that Violet was not ready to see the irony. 

[hnygrl]

Oh howl I despise that bratty unthankful entitled little shit. 

*screams in frustration*

she’s doing way better than her mom. 

Christie’s doing better than her mom. 

Bonnie’s doing better than her mom. 

I hate it when kids blame their whole lives on mommy issues. 

Sorry folks. 

I hated this one and will never watch it again. I have no love for kids who as adults still drag out the family garbage to sniff. 

I kept waiting for Christie to get angry. Oh do not get me started. Ugh.....

 

*I have to hear this shit far too often from my bestie’s 30 something daughter. Consider me triggered*

[Guest]

3 hours ago, torontomeridith said:

This was such a great episode. 

Violet's feelings were valid based on her experiences and if we were only hearing her podcast, and Violet's opinions, we'd be applauding her choice to cut off Christie from her life. I could totally see myself listening to that podcast and thinking Violet was in the right. But since we know Christie so much better and seen her rise and fall and rise again over the seasons, we are naturally more inclined to feel for Christie. Violet is still pretty young and still had very raw feelings regarding her childhood. Look how often Christie STILL criticizes Bonnie's parenting and the two of them are on better footing. I imagine that time will eventually heal the rift between Violet and Christie, but it might not. 

So well done. It makes me want to call my mom. 

I felt the same way. My knee jerk reaction was to side with Christie but they did a really good job of showing why Violet isn’t ready to forgive her. I thought it was telling that Christie did not apologize until the very end. She was there to defend herself rather than to make amends. I feel for Christie but I can’t blame Violet for not being able to forgive yet.  

[60sgirl]

I understand Violet's bitterness over her childhood, but, I really felt for Christy when she told her that her life was better without her in it.  Tammy waiting outside of the men's room with the clip board was funny.  Marjorie mentioned her son twice, she hasn't talked about him since season 1 and then it was only for one episode.  I wonder if this is a prelude to a storyline between them?

[Tosia]

Hate Violet's entitled, poor-me, mean girl stance towards Christy while using her mom stories to gain $ and fame on her pod-cast. So immature and short-sighted. I wondered if Christy cd have sued Violet for invasion of privacy or something else.  

I would be surprised that some of Violey's listeners didn't respond with info about toxic family issues repeating thematically as posters advice have said,  esp with genetic alcoholism and other addictive behavior patterns.

It's incredibly annoying that Bonnie gets a pass,  but it leaves the door open slightly so Christy knows Violet is ok. The lack of contact would be a good thing for Christy cuz Violet is in a bad place,  and Christy doesn't need the hateful reminders of her past. We also know now that resentment, anger, and hate is debilitating and Violet needs to work on herself with positive self-care and therapy. 

 Suck it up, buttercup. Hate Violet. She's a pill. Move on Violet, without USING your mother.  Let's see how your own crap on a podcast plays out.  

[qtpye]

I would have never recognized Violet, she looks so much more mature. I have sympathy for her but the problem is the actress that plays violet is so much less appealing than the adorable actress that plays Christy. This is silly, but Violet just always seems to rub the audience the wrong way. I am glad she seems to be doing well.

[Winston Wolfe]

2 hours ago, Tosia said:

Hate Violet's entitled, poor-me, mean girl stance towards Christy while using her mom stories to gain $ and fame on her pod-cast. So immature and short-sighted. I wondered if Christy cd have sued Violet for invasion of privacy or something else.  

Like her Grandmother, Violet is all about the current scam.  What happens after she milks the "Mother of All Problems" cow dry?  You're right, scam artists never look that far ahead.  And anyone who gets close to Violet has to wonder when she will turn on them in order to make an easy dollar.

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I have sympathy for her but the problem is the actress that plays violet is so much less appealing than the adorable actress that plays Christy.

Yep, it's an optics thing.  Violet is physically larger than her mother, and the perma-sneer/resting bitch face she's had from day one makes it easy to look at her as the bully and Christie the victim.

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Like her Grandmother, Violet is all about the current scam.  What happens after she milks the "Mother of All Problems" cow dry?  You're right, scam artists never look that far ahead.  And anyone who gets close to Violet has to wonder when she will turn on them in order to make an easy dollar.

Yep, it's an optics thing.  Violet is physically larger than her mother, and the perma-sneer/resting bitch face she's had from day one makes it easy to look at her as the bully and Christie the victim.

I know Christy looks very youthful looking and had Violet crazy young, but how many people would peg Christy for the mother in the optics department? My guess is that most people would think they were sisters and might even think Violet is the older one because of her bitterness. Violet's childhood seems horrible but the only thing the audience has ever seen since the beginning of the show was a sweet and loving Christy willing to do anything to make it up to her bratty teenage and now young adult daughter. I am sure the whole plot is that the audience does not peg Christy as an absentee mother for not having Violet in her life. The truth is the audience probably stopped caring about Violet a long time ago, though a throwaway line once in a while about Roscoe doing well would be cool.

[torontomeridith]

8 hours ago, Dani said:

I thought it was telling that Christie did not apologize until the very end. She was there to defend herself rather than to make amends. I feel for Christie but I can’t blame Violet for not being able to forgive yet.  

That is so true! Christy was 100% focused on how much she'd changed (even though her recent bouts with gambling suggest she hasn't COMPLETELY changed) that she never actually brought up why Violet may be so harsh towards her. Granted, the podcast was completely sprung on her, but ideally there should have been a strong mea culpa. 

It's almost like these characters are as flawed as actual human beings.

(BTW, Tammy is just the gift that keeps on giving.)

[Winston Wolfe]

15 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I know Christy looks very youthful looking and had Violet crazy young, but how many people would peg Christy for the mother in the optics department? My guess is that most people would think they were sisters and might even think Violet is the older one because of her bitterness.

Agreed, you couldn't tell by looking who's the mother and who's the daughter.  I was thinking from an "aggressor vs victim" standpoint.

[iMonrey]

Let me join the chorus of "shut up Violet." As the child of an alcoholic I can sympathize with Violet but only up to a point. She is an adult now, and if she's ever going to have a healthy life she has to let go of the past. Obsessing over it isn't going to help. It's not about forgiving and forgetting, it's about moving forward. And no matter how much Christie screwed up her childhood, she's an adult now and can no longer blame Christie for any of her problems. At some point she has to take responsibility for her own life and her own choices. Christie doesn't control that anymore. 

Furthermore, the way Violet seems to overlook Bonnie's shortcomings and in fact considered her a "life saver" suggests one of two things: she has a very selective memory or else the writers are trying to whitewash Bonnie's character. Bonnie was every bit as much of a train wreck as Christie was, and I don't even think Bonnie was much a part of Violet's life until both she and Christie were sober. (The series began with Bonnie moving in with Christie and her kids.)

I did like the little nod to Anna Faris's own sideline - her podcast "Unqualified."

[chocolatine]

I give Violet a pass because she's still very young. Christie didn't reconnect with Bonnie until she was in her mid-30s. I think with ten or so more years of life experience under her belt, Violet will learn how to forgive and rebuild a damaged relationship. The podcast is tacky, but people Violet's age have grown up with social media, so oversharing is normal for them.

[AnnieHeights]

This episode broke my heart for Christy and I was worried it was going to make her backslide for a second.  I do not blame Violet for being angry - sometimes it takes time to get past things.  It took until tonight for Christy to acknowledge her somewhat still doing that to Bonnie.  I loved how Christy hugged Bonnie right after they left Violets.  It is hard to empathize fully with Violet though because as viewers we have seen the progress Christy has made over the course of the show and root for her.   

[Kid]

15 hours ago, greekmom said:

Best episode this season.

Violet is a little shit for not wanting a relationship with Christie. I mean Bonnie has done as much damage to Christie but Violet sees her as a life preserver??!!

The podcast was hurtful and the fact that she doesn't even want to try to have a relationship was so hurtful to Christie.  Not like Violet was a perfect angel (teen pregnancy, dropping out of college, working in a casino, could have a substance abuse herself...)

I actually liked Tammy this episode.

I was raised in an alcoholic family so I can certainly see Violet’s point of view. And yeah, Violet did all that but, until she figured out she had to fix herself even though her mother broke her, she was acting on auto pilot.  

Bonnie wasn’t her mother and Bonnie wasn’t responsible for her childhood directly.  She was indirectly responsible, however.  But that doesn’t have the same impact. That is something that Violet will realize as she gets older.

The big issue right now between Violet and Christie is a matter of trust.  And trust needs to be earned and Violet is not even in a place where she’s willing to let Christy earn that trust. Unfortunately for Violet, trust is going to be a big issue with everybody she encounters. That’s why I like animals so much. They are the only living beings that I truly trust.

I also liked this actress as Violet much better than I liked the last one.  At least I think it’s a different actress.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Kid

[proserpina65]

If this episode was supposed to make me more sympathetic towards Violet, it failed miserably.  And I don't even particularly like Christy.

15 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Find it weird that out of the blue they bring Violet back.  Not sure how she doesn't see that Bonnie did the same thing to her Mom yet she loves Bonnie.  I don't think Bonnie was sober while Christy was still an alcoholic and was there for Violet earning her the title 'life preserver".   Still no explanation about Roscoe or even a mention.  

That's what pissed me off about this episode.  She doesn't seem to acknowledge that a lot of why Christy was a bad mother is because Bonnie was a horrific mother and a terrible example.  I mean, I don't have that much sympathy for Christy, but I do get that children of addicts often repeat the pattern because that's what they went through.  Violet certainly doesn't have to make her mother a big part of her life, but giving her a little space to try and earn back trust isn't unreasonable.  It doesn't sound like Violet ever went to Alanon or had any real therapy for her issues at all, beyond that one trip to a counselor shortly after she had the baby.

[Sarah 103]

15 hours ago, LucyEth said:

I don't think Bonnie was sober while Christy was still an alcoholic and was there for Violet earning her the title 'life preserver".   Still no explanation about Roscoe or even a mention.  

The only thing I can think of is that early on the series shortly after Bonnie became a part of her life again (or for the first time) Violet thought Bonnie was more stable and a better person than her mother. 

14 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I'm wondering if we'll ever see Roscoe again or has he been pretty much Chuck Cunningham'ed?

Boy, is Bonnie setting herself up for some major temptation issues in the near future. Her fiance owns a bar and he'll probably keep alcohol in the house after they're married.

I love that you wrote "Chuck Cunningham'ed." I had no idea if that was still a thing people knew about/referenced that. Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't Adam keep some beers in Bonnie's fridge already? Also, doesn't the bistro they go to serve wine? 

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

The truth is the audience probably stopped caring about Violet a long time ago, though a throwaway line once in a while about Roscoe doing well would be cool.

I agree. I feel like they wrapped up what happened with the kids last season or the season before. Violet was going to live with Luke, the up and coming technology guy while Roscoe was now living with Baxter and Candance. It would be nice if they mentioned Roscoe every now and then because Christy should be somewhat involved in his life, even if it is just birthday cards or finding out how he's doing at school or just life in general. 

I'm confused about something. Is the podcast Violet's only source of income? If she's doing something else, it would be nice to know what that is. I was surprised Christy didn't mention how awful Bonnie was as a mother when she was growing up. The only thing I can thinkg of is that Christy was too shocked to respond.  

[EtheltoTillie]

32 minutes ago, Kid said:

I also liked this actress as Violet much better than I liked the last one.  At least I think it’s a different actress.

 

No, it's actually the same one.  But she looks a bit different, which is not completely surprising, as she has not been on for about two years.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by GussieK

[Chaos Theory]

I know some people will hate Violet for not wanting a relationship with Christy but I think the show explains why very well and yet gives a lot of credit to Christy for changing but still shows the damage she did to Violet as a kid that won’t rver go away.  The door is closed now but who knows in the future Christy and Violet were able to at least make a sort of peace they have never been able to before and Violet was able to see how far her mother has come but Christy was also able to see the damage she has done her daughter and the “together at all costs” she had the first few seasons didn’t do her kids any good.   They might be better off without her....at least for now.  

[Lily H]

16 hours ago, greekmom said:

Not like Violet was a perfect angel (teen pregnancy, dropping out of college, working in a casino, could have a substance abuse herself...)

Also, there was that time she scammed some guy out of thousands of dollars by pretending she was going to marry him so he could get a green card.

I haven't missed Violet at all since I never liked her abrasive personality. I do miss Roscoe and Baxter, though.

[mammaM]

I like how the show didn't go with the easy saccharine all is forgiven story, childhood trauma doesn't just go away. But, I don't like Violet for giving Bonnie a pass. I can handwave that because Christy and Bonnie were estranged, Violet didn't really know her grandmother til after she was sober, so never actually saw her drunk/stoned/whatever. However, she did know about Bonnie's past and if she's really grown and changed as much as she claims she should realize Christy had the same childhood she did. So to demonize Christy and not Bonnie seems a bit hypocritical. Now I emotions aren't that cut and dry.............But I still don't like Violet, sorry.

[bichonblitz]

18 minutes ago, mammaM said:

I don't like Violet for giving Bonnie a pass.

I wish Bonnie would have spoken up for her daughter. Knowing what a terrible mother she was herself, she should have a heart to heart with Violet and tell her how fortunate she is that Christy is giving her another chance at making amends for all the shitty things she did while she was using and maybe Violet should consider doing the same. Bonnie never has Chrisy's back and it bothers me. Violet needs Al-Anon big time. The resentment and bitterness will ruin her life if she lets it.

Also, Christy was sober the last few years that Violet was living at home and really working on being a good mother. Granted, Christy has years of neglect and broken trust to make up for, it won't happen over night and she knows it, however, she is willing to do whatever it takes but Violet acts like Christy was a falling down drunk until the day she left home. Not the case at all but over the past year she feels the need to cut Christy out completely? 

Something else that pisses me off: Bonnie had Violet's phone # and knew where she lived for the past year? WTF?

[Chaos Theory]

Christy was sober when she gambled the money away and they had to leave the house they were living in.  This was right after Violet had her baby so it just reinforced how her mother ruined her life and was a mess.  She disappears after that and goes to live with the professor guy and when she gets an invite let’s slip  about the teen pregnancy and the entire night is a complete mess.  They have dinner at her house with his mom and everything goes crazy there as well.  

I can see Violet wanting a nice quiet life and just now managing to have some semblance of one and scared that allowing her mother in will bring chaos.  Yes she may need al-Anon  but the podcast may work as the same thing. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[19Bee63]

1 hour ago, Lily H said:

I haven't missed Violet at all since I never liked her abrasive personality. I do miss Roscoe and Baxter, though.

And Candace!  Of course, this is mainly due to my undying love for Sara Rue.

[bybrandy]

I think the one good thing Christie did as a parent before she got sober is to protect the kids from drunk Bonnie.  So of course Violet doesn't see the damage Bonnie did.  Bonnie didn't do damage in their lives.  And Violet grew up with a mother who blamed a huge set of her own issues on having Bonnie for a parent.  Violet is doing what she knows how to do. I was sorry for Christie in tis episode, and I think Violet could clearly benefit from being in a program herself, she might benefit from going to a meeting with Adam.   And if this leads to Christie letting go of some of her anger about her own childhood, more the better.  

[Chaos Theory]

I may  probably be in the minority and think the show is missing something without both the kids being at least semi regular characters.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I know some people will hate Violet for not wanting a relationship with Christy but I think the show explains why very well and yet gives a lot of credit to Christy for changing but still shows the damage she did to Violet as a kid that won’t rver go away.  The door is closed now but who knows in the future Christy and Violet were able to at least make a sort of peace they have never been able to before and Violet was able to see how far her mother has come but Christy was also able to see the damage she has done her daughter and the “together at all costs” she had the first few seasons didn’t do her kids any good.   They might be better off without her....at least for now.  

I really love that they did not shy away from showing Christie was a bad mother. That story about forgetting to pick her up from a birthday party was horrible. Even Christie had to admit that the stories were true. 

I appreciated the parallels between Christie and Violet. Violet uses her podcast in the same way Christie uses her meetings and her friends, but Violet just has a larger audience. Throughout the show Christie has spent a lot of time blaming her mother for her bad behavior and has rarely acknowledged her own failings as a mother. I am glad she seemed to realize that in the end. 

 

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

 

I'm confused about something. Is the podcast Violet's only source of income? If she's doing something else, it would be nice to know what that is. I was surprised Christy didn't mention how awful Bonnie was as a mother when she was growing up. The only thing I can thinkg of is that Christy was too shocked to respond.  

Violet said she makes a little bit of money from the podcast so she probably has another source of income.  

When Christie was telling her side of the story she started at birth so I can’t imagine her skipping over what a horrible mother Bonnie was. 

1 hour ago, mammaM said:

I like how the show didn't go with the easy saccharine all is forgiven story, childhood trauma doesn't just go away. But, I don't like Violet for giving Bonnie a pass. I can handwave that because Christy and Bonnie were estranged, Violet didn't really know her grandmother til after she was sober, so never actually saw her drunk/stoned/whatever. However, she did know about Bonnie's past and if she's really grown and changed as much as she claims she should realize Christy had the same childhood she did. So to demonize Christy and not Bonnie seems a bit hypocritical. Now I emotions aren't that cut and dry.............But I still don't like Violet, sorry.

It’s not necessarily fair but I found Violet giving Bonnie a pass realistic. Christie was willing to her grandmother a pass even though she knew that she abandoned Bonnie as a child. It is a lot easier to forgive past bad behavior when you weren’t hurt by it. 

[Winston Wolfe]

1 hour ago, Lily H said:

Also, there was that time she scammed some guy out of thousands of dollars by pretending she was going to marry him so he could get a green card.

There's the line of demarcation between the three.  Christie would have never pulled that scam, but Bonnie in her younger years would have had absolutely no problem.  Could be that the "life preserver" moniker is based on Violet's conscious or sub-conscious identification with grandma.

39 minutes ago, 19Bee63 said:

And Candace!  Of course, this is mainly due to my undying love for Sara Rue.

Sara rocks soooo hard, always has.  Wish someone would give her a new sitcom.

[treeofdreams]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I can see Violet wanting a nice quiet life and just now managing to have some semblance of one and scared that allowing her mother in will bring chaos.

I think this is the bottom line for Violet cutting Christy out.

[possibilities]

I loved this episode! Now that the main characters are sober and increasingly ealthy, it's easy to forget how destructive their behaviors have been. Yes, they need to forgive themselves and not just self-immolate due to guilt. But the focus on self-forgiveness does not negate the harm you did, nor exempt you from facing the pain of others and making amends.

I was very disappointed that Bonnie didn't point out to Violet that Christy's childhood was actually as bad or worse than Violet's, and that Bonnie isn't innocent the way Violet portrays her to be.

But I thought all of the characters behaved in very believable ways. Violet is in a lot of pain and everything she said was true. SOmetimes you have to separate from people who were destructive in your life. How many people never get over the pain caused by an ex and are content to never see them again? When it's your entire life foundation, it's that much harder to just let it go and heal and move on, never mind actually reconcile with that person. And this is not that far in Violet's past, either. The degree of neglect and abandonment she experienced was severe. It took a major toll on her development and she's working hard at living a different kind of life. Yes, she's got problems. But she could have turned out a lot worse.

Meanwhile, people in recovery are often impressed by their own progress, and that's fine. But they also can be very self-congratulatory and demanding that others forgive them and act like nothing ever happened, not because it's actually what's best for the people they hurt, but because it feels good to escape consequences.

I recognized all the behaviors portrayed in this episode, and I love how the show is willing to lay it out, in ways that remind everyone that recovery is not a simple, linear process. It's a life-long, complicated, multi-faceted project with ripples in every direction.

Also, Tammy was great.

[mammaM]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

 

It’s not necessarily fair but I found Violet giving Bonnie a pass realistic. Christie was willing to her grandmother a pass even though she knew that she abandoned Bonnie as a child. It is a lot easier to forgive past bad behavior when you weren’t hurt by it. 

I agree with you but it still rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe if Bonnie had made a comment about herself being a bad mother I'd be more ok with it. 

Or maybe it's bothering me because it seems like tptb are getting ready to have Christy fall off the wagon. The character seems more frantic this season, she's also going to GA, and now this with Violet, it seems like the show is pushing her toward some kind of meltdown.

Edited November 16, 2018 by mammaM
Tablet hates me

[sugarbaker design]

Or some kind of breakthrough!  Christie has already said Violet's behavior has made Christie look at her own unresolved resentment towards Bonnie.

As a long time 12 stepper I was surprised that neither Bonnie nor Christie mentioned amends during their visit with Violet.

[jewel21]

19 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Christie has always been a very convenient scapegoat for her daughter.  In the past Violet has seen periods of time where she's "doing a lot better," self-sabotages, and the default is to always blame her mother.   Thinking about it, even though she sometimes backslides, Christie has made the most progress of any of the lead characters, guess that's why Violet's strident rejection really impacted me.  Aaargh, too much emotion over a sitcom....

I agree with this but I think it's a complicated situation. I grew up with parents who had mental issues, substance abuse issues, and there was some domestic violence thrown in there for good measure. It makes for a kid who, one the one hand, has seen more in their short life than most adults will ever have to see and deal with... In that regard, the child grows up before their time. In some ways, I felt like an old soul, wise beyond my years. And jaded. But at the same time, it's like you end up being emotionally stunted, as well. So you're this weird mix of adult and child. It's hard to explain and I don't know if I'm doing a good job.

It's just that when Violet was mentioning all the things she had to deal with at a young age, and how she never really had a childhood, I completely understood where she was coming from and felt for her. As well, she's also emotionally stunted and as a result can come off immature and petulant and jaded. She didn't have a role model to look up to and, as a result,  I'm not surprised she developed some of the same demons as her mother and grandmother. And true to form, rather than take responsibility for her mistakes, it's easier to blame Christie for them and lash out at her and blame her for her shitty life. You have to make a conscious effort to remind yourself that you can't blame your parents forever, and eventually you have to take responsibility for your own actions. It's just not always easy to do...

[illdoc]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Christy was sober when she gambled the money away and they had to leave the house they were living in

You know, I've seen this mentioned several times. As I recall, Christy did gamble the rent money, but won. She was robbed just after collecting the money, however, and no one believed her story.

[AnnaCody]

21 hours ago, greekmom said:

I actually liked Tammy this episode.

I did too!!!  She seems to be finding her way.  She has a skill which is great.  And she's really kinda fun to have around!  Brings some levity to the show, this episode especially which was so hurtful in so many ways.

[AnnaCody]

21 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I can understand why Marjorie's son wouldn't want to have a relationship with her. That woman needs to have her named legally changed to Debbie Downer.

I'm wondering if we'll ever see Roscoe again or has he been pretty much Chuck Cunningham'ed?

Boy, is Bonnie setting herself up for some major temptation issues in the near future. Her fiance owns a bar and he'll probably keep alcohol in the house after they're married.

What is it about sober women that get involved with men that drink heavily?  I have a friend who was newly sober and after the year waiting period here comes a man that was drinking a bottle of Jack Daniel's a day.  Maybe an alcoholic, high functioning or not.  But why I asked her?  And she married him!  We lost touch so I don't know how it worked out.  Does it...ever?

[hnygrl]

1 hour ago, AnnaCody said:

Boy, is Bonnie setting herself up for some major temptation issues in the near future. Her fiance owns a bar and he'll probably keep alcohol in the house after they're married.

He keeps alcohol in the house NOW. There's ALWAYS beer in Bonnie's fridge. Always. How many times has Adam gotten piss faced drunk, or high? In Bonnie's presence?

Unless it's a convenient plot point? I don't see this being an issue. It's kinda cool that she was all in for him to do this and her issues had nothing to do with it. She (and all her friends) went to the bar's opening. And drank Iced Tea and ate hot wings. I don't see this being an issue.

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, hnygrl said:

 I don't see this being an issue. It's kinda cool that she was all in for him to do this and her issues had nothing to do with it. She (and all her friends) went to the bar's opening. And drank Iced Tea and ate hot wings. I don't see this being an issue.

It shouldn't be an issue, if Bonnie and company are making meetings, working steps and helping others they should be comfortable around alcohol.

[MissLucas]

While Violet is not an easy character to like I appreciate the show for having her there as a somber reminder that despite all the great comedy we get out of Christy and Bonnie's life there's also tragedy. Some of the best episodes have her at the center. I applauded the show for letting her go through with the adoption and then showing the aftermath. She's always been a dire reminder of Christy's failure as a mother - like in the episode where Christy was angry with Baxter and Violet cited the occasions when Baxter was around for her and Roscoe while Christy was AWOL. Sure her sourpuss attitude was often tiring and off-putting but even lucky teenagers with a stable home often go there.

Of course she has a different view on Bonnie and is able to give her a pass. The dynamic is completely different and as has mentioned above she probably has never seen the worst of Bonnie. And we've seen Bonnie being a stable influence on her life during the early seasons - for example when Bonnie was able to bring Christy around to accept Violet's decision to give her baby away.

And I actually have no problems with Violet making money out of her childhood trauma even if that's tough on Christy. In Violet's eyes that's one way to get at least something good out of it. And while Christy can easily point to Bonnie claiming that she had a similar childhood there's one big difference and that's Roscoe. Violet did not only have to fend for herself but also for her little brother. Also: at Violet's current age Christy was nowhere near forgiving Bonnie. Hell, even now she occasionally blames Bonnie for stuff that went wrong - sometimes she's justified and sometimes she's not. And even though it was hard to watch Violet asking Christy to stay out of her life it was the right call.

For all her faults she did actually manage to not have addiction nearly ruin her life and broke out of the Plunkett mould. In her early 20's she's sober, has no criminal record (IIRC) and is no longer living off her boyfriend - that was the one thing I truly did not like about her. She's in a way better place than both her grandmother and her mother were at that point and if she's weary of letting Christy back into her life I can't blame her for that. It seems realistic - with some time she should get to a point where she's ready. Until then Christy has to accept it as part of her making amends. The scene with Bonnie hugging Christy was terrific and scores high on the 'CalltheMidwife' meter (i.e. how many tissues were ruined during watching).

TLTR: Violet might not be a very likable character but I'm siding with her while still feeling for Christy.

And a shout-out to Tammy for bringing some desperately needed comic relief and to Jill for handing out tough but good advice.

Edited November 17, 2018 by MissLucas

[Tosia]

17 hours ago, Dani said:

 

I appreciated the parallels between Christie and Violet. Violet uses her podcast in the same way Christie uses her meetings and her friends, but Violet just has a larger audience. 

I respectfully disagree.

At meetings you get to hear the stories of other alcoholics which help inform your recovery, as well as getting strength from others, and in AA,  a sponsor to help you.  

Violet is just stewing in her own angry pain and resentment.  She's not going to get any perspective of looking at her story from the outside in. Or how others had it worse,  much worse. Or how alcoholism runs in families and behaviors are repeated generation after generation.  You learn what you see.  Violet will not progress beyond poor me. She needs Al-anon and exposure to other children of ancoholics to understand her situation, and Christy's, and Bonnie's.  

Christy is better off without Violet guilting her, cutting her down, and reminding her of her worst days. Move on. Who wants to be miserable and angry all their life? Or inflict that crap on others?  

Edited November 17, 2018 by Tosia

[iMonrey]

Quote

I may  probably be in the minority and think the show is missing something without both the kids being at least semi regular characters.  

It's definitely weird. I'm glad they at least acknowledged that Violet still exists instead of pretending she never did, and that Christy admitted she hadn't spoken with Violet in over a year. But Violet is an adult so her absence is at least explainable. That's not the case with Roscoe - he's still a minor. Even if he is living full time with his father I would expect Christy to be spending some time with him on weekends and/or holidays, and mentioning him from time to time. It's not as if she was court-ordered to stay away from him - she agreed to let him live with Baxter and Candace because they have a nicer house and can provide for him better, and he liked it there. The last time we saw him, however, he got suspended because he found Baxter's weed and got stoned. So it's not like Baxter and Candace aren't without their own set of problems. Why would she relinquish complete responsibility for the kid when his dad is still apparently getting stoned, and she doesn't particularly care for Candace?