S03.E04: Chapter Thirty-Nine: The Midnight Club

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

When Betty confronts Alice about Gryphons and Gargoyles, she comes clean about playing the game in the early '90s and how a shocking mystery has been plaguing all of the players since that time.

[SeanC]

Best episode ever.

[RandomWatcher]

Probably the only time we'll see Jughead wear a crown

[Advance35]

I didn't hate the episode, but I wonder if I would have loved it more if they had casted different actors as the parents? Or maybe if the flashback had been from the viewpoint of someone else.  FP and Alice were the most boring of the young set.  Ah well.

The Gargoyle Game was the least interesting aspect of this episode.  I would have much rather spent more time with Hermione, Sierra and Penelope.  Each was given the Kernel of a character beat that could have led to some truly entertaining and fascinating arcs.  Alice's summation of the choices the characters made with their lives made me feel shortchanged because I was genuinely interested in the nuances of each.  Well everyone except FP and Alice.

I also felt really bad for Fred.  Not just in regards to his Father but for just about everything that happened.  For some reason, I didn't recall him wanting to be a musician.  Did they ever mention that.  I thought they painted a very good picture of who he was and how he became who he is today.

"I've always wanted to be free of moral reasoning." LMAO. Oh really Hermione.  Interesting that Hiram gave her a pearl necklace, eerily similar to the one he gave Veronica.  Michael Consuelos looks JUST like his dad.  I would have liked to have seen more of Hiram.  For some reason I always thought he came from money, turns out he really clawed his way up from nothing by hook and crook.  I can see how that would appeal to the Hermione we met tonight.

All in all, not bad but I feel like I would have preferred a different vehicle for the inevitable blast from the past.

[jay741982]

I LOVED THE SOUNDTRACK!!! 

Lili was looking Hot as hell dressed up like Young Alice. 

And I will love this show and its Batshitness for the Fredheads singing "Dream Warriors" from Nightmare on Elm street 3, probably the BEST SONG IMO that was in a NOES Movie such Epicness LOL.   

Also I just knew Betty was stumble onto Juggy getting addicted to that damn game at the end of the episode given what the description for next week entailed 

More thoughts later 

Edited November 8, 2018 by jay741982

[SeanC]

Penelope's backstory may be the creepiest thing on the show yet.

[jay741982]

Just now, SeanC said:

Penelope's backstory may be the creepiest thing on the show yet.

Oh shit! Yeah that shit was so creepy I forgot to initially comment on it. She was Adopted to marry her adoptive Brother SO MUCH YUCK!!

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, what was up with that Dutch angle there at the end?!? I know this show goes for melodrama,but that was straight up old timie super drama!

I actually liked that episode way more than I expected to, in all of its weirdo, Breakfast Club style glory. I mean, you even get Anthony Michael Hall in there, you know exactly what your doing. It was a lot of fun, and I actually do feel like I know the older generation better. Really, it makes their adult lives rather sad. Despite how much they all wanted to do their own things as teenagers, and had big dreams, they all gave up on their dreams, or just became their parents. And all because of some kind of evil, demonic LARP lesson. 

The soundtrack was super fun! Although, was it supposed to be the 80s, or the 90s? Because the clothes seemed rather early/mid 90s, but the soundtrack was 80s. 

Penelope has a seriously messed up backstory. Seriously, the Blossoms are more and more of a super messed up Tennessee Williams play every time we focus on them. She was adopted for her red hair, so she could marry her brother? Gross!

So it looks like the Gargoyles got their evil stony claws on Jughead, and I also think I saw Sweetpea and Cheryl there too, maybe Toni? Is this like a Freddy Kruger situation, where the more kids know whats going on, the more people the evil force can affect? Is all run by belief? Or some weird old guy living in the woods? Or some new long lost relative? I will give Riverdale this, I truly have no clue where the heck this is going.

[Dee]

This show is tacky.

[Kazzy25]

KJ as young Fred looked so much like Luke Perry in his 90210 days. His outfits and mannerisms were on point!

[tennisgurl]

The Saved by the Bell style Riverdale opening credit really tickled me. 

[notcreative enough]

Let me guess if the killer is someone in the midnight club it's going to be the kid/adult I didn't know. 

I was wondering why Penelope's last name was Bloosm. Talk about super creepy. And no one in that town thought to was weird as hell brother and sister got married and had kids together. It seemed like they kept the adoption secret. 

[AnimeMania]

A few points:

The Blossom's show one son, didn't they have two, what was the relationship of that guy who moved in after Clifford died? Wouldn't everybody realized that Clifford and Penelope were brother ans sister and object to them being married, it is a small town.

I loved FP (Jughead) wearing his coffee can crown.

Was all the writing that Alice saw in the bathroom an hallucination because nobody could clean that up and make it seem like it wasn't there.

[methodwriter85]

He was the son that got sent away.

[Dobian]

The Breakfast Club spoof was okay.  Fun idea having the young actors play the parents.  Lili Reinhart can dress 80s style the rest of the series and I'd be fine with it.  The music choices were good.  Of course the whole Dungeons and Dragons plot is so ridiculous it conjures up images of the old camp classic Reefer Madness.  "Don't play that game, kiddies, or you'll grow a third arm!"  Anyone who has ever played an rpg has to be cringing at this story, especially the previews for next week lol.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Dobian

[AnimeMania]

It was kind of weird because I thought the parent's timeline style (1980's-1990's) seemed more recent than the current timeline style (1950's-1960's).

[rmontro]

So wait a minute, doesn't this mean Polly Cooper is FP's daughter?  

I can't believe no one has mentioned this, or has this already been revealed and I missed it?

I can't believe Betty didn't say anything about it either.

I don't really like 80s music, but it seemed appropriately nostalgic for this episode.

[lorbeer]

43 minutes ago, rmontro said:

So wait a minute, doesn't this mean Polly Cooper is FP's daughter?  

I can't believe no one has mentioned this, or has this already been revealed and I missed it?

I can't believe Betty didn't say anything about it either.

I don't really like 80s music, but it seemed appropriately nostalgic for this episode.

The kid FP and Alice had wasn't a girl. It wos a boy  - Chic. She gave him up to that catholic sisters' place. Alice even said in that episode "I was pregnant with your brother so I didn't took any (drugs)" :)

[rmontro]

21 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

The kid FP and Alice had wasn't a girl. It wos a boy  - Chic. She gave him up to that catholic sisters' place. Alice even said in that episode "I was pregnant with your brother so I didn't took any (drugs)" :)

OK thanks, I figured I must have missed something along the way.  I can't believe I forgot about Chic lol.  Out of sight, out of mind, as they say.

Does FP know?

[lorbeer]

50 minutes ago, rmontro said:

OK thanks, I figured I must have missed something along the way.  I can't believe I forgot about Chic lol.  Out of sight, out of mind, as they say.

Does FP know?

True. Fake Chic was a terrible plot and character. I believe he does know. I'm not sure if he knew back then.

[Lady Calypso]

No surprise to me that the teen actors playing their parents distracted me, since I was comparing their acting from teen to parent, and almost all of them felt like their regular characters. I get that kids can emulate their parents, but some people didn't feel like their adult counterpart. 

The only actress that actually felt like she changed her acting was Lili Reinhart. Then again, Alice and Betty aren't really all that similar sometimes, so it probably wasn't hard to differentiate. Plus, at least I could imagine this Alice as adult Alice. I do think Lili channeled Madchen a little bit. However, this is just a personal opinion of mine. Since I haven't really been paying attention to the adult characters throughout the series, it was harder to see these characters, played by the teens, as their parents rather than just slightly altered versions of their teen selves. 

I guess it was ok, but...I don't know, I wasn't totally feeling it. I might rewatch...or I might not. 

[PeekaBoo]

I LOVED The episode!!! I was THOROUGHLY impressed!!! I really was expecting cringe moments but I SOOO didn't!

So much to say! I loved their soundtrack as well, a bit too 80s for it being 1992 (or so I've heard) but they had tears for fears and A-Ha so can't go wrong with that!

Gotta feel bad for the parents now with their backgrounds, especially Fred's! 

Everyone did a great job with their parts, best was Kj as Fred, he TOTALLY NAILED IT! Kept getting Dylan vibes and his "soft voice.

The story was ok, the friendships as well... Young Falice has seriously spread doubt in my mind and now I think they're more doomed than ever.... Maybe they really do like each other but everything in their lives just makes them resent one another... I don't know what to think about Fralice, was there more than just a kiss? And Fp and Hermione.... Fp you dog! Flirting for eveyrthing it's worth! The entire Blossom story is just SICK AF! GAH! And Peneloppe just jumped in their willingly in the end and Clifford not saying one word, snif snif! The actor has such a nice voice...

As for the story of G&G itself, not that interesting but I'll take it just so that it pushes on the rest of the plot....

And THE END of the episode! My gawd!!! Of course Jughead would have to be pulled into the game and his merry Serpent men.... Betty is NOT going to be happy! Next week sounds promising! 

[Dobian]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

It was kind of weird because I thought the parent's timeline style (1980's-1990's) seemed more recent than the current timeline style (1950's-1960's).

They're trying to recreate the feel of the comics from the 50s and 60s, while with the parents they were free to represent the time period more as it actually was.

[Dobian]

5 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

So much to say! I loved their soundtrack as well, a bit too 80s for it being 1992 (or so I've heard) but they had tears for fears and A-Ha so can't go wrong with that!

Was it '92?  There was a Heathers reference so I knew it was at least 1988.  Edit: guess so, there was a Nirvana reference in there too.  But the way they were dressed and the music choices was clearly mid-80's.  Having lived through the 80s I can say with some authority that the 80s kind of stopped being the 80s after 1987.  1992 is Beverly Hills 90210 era which was definitely post-80s and stylishly much more similar to the present.  But it's okay, this show tends to be anachronistic and the parents all would be in their 50s and would have had these kids in their 30s if they were really from the Breakfast Club era.  And where was Molly Ringwald in all this?  I mean, duh, she was in the Breakfast Club and it was a no-brainer to have her cameo as a high school teacher or even the principal's secretary.  Especially since the principal was played by Anthony Michael Hall!  Huge head-scratching missed opportunity to reunite Ringwald and Michael Hall.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Dobian

[AnimeMania]

I totally thought that Cheryl and Josie were going to hook up when they were left alone together. That would have made Penelope a total hypocrite for denying Cheryl a lesbian lifestyle.

[angelusgirl]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

Was it '92?  There was a Heathers reference so I knew it was at least 1988.  Edit: guess so, there was a Nirvana reference in there too.  But the way they were dressed and the music choices was clearly mid-80's.  Having lived through the 80s I can say with some authority that the 80s kind of stopped being the 80s after 1987.  1992 is Beverly Hills 90210 era which was definitely post-80s and stylishly much more similar to the present.  But it's okay, this show tends to be anachronistic and the parents all would be in their 50s and would have had these kids in their 30s if they were really from the Breakfast Club era.  And where was Molly Ringwald in all this?  I mean, duh, she was in the Breakfast Club and it was a no-brainer to have her cameo as a high school teacher or even the principal's secretary.  Especially since the principal was played by Anthony Michael Hall!  Huge head-scratching missed opportunity to reunite Ringwald and Michael Hall.

Pretty sure it was firmly in the 90's.  That is when Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder dated and Smells like teen spirit was released in september 1991. I  graduated from high school in 1991 and it looked pretty spot on to me as being set just after I graduated, especially Alice's first outfit. Sub a black bodysuit and doc martens and I lived in that my freshman year of college, necklaces and all. Everyone rolled their short sleeves up like FP as well.  Denim shirts (Fred), vests (Sierra and Penelope) big black belts cinching ripped jeans (alice)  the fashion was on point-except Hermione maybe, she looked like she was wearing a catholic school uniform.   I also saw a few flowered baby doll dresses in the hallway! Heck Fred looked so much like 90210 Luke Perry, it was scary.  

As far as the musice, the theme of my senior prom was Journey's Faithfully, which was released in 83. Music turnover wasn't a quick as it is now, Mtv, radio and buying the music was the only way to get it, really. Albums took longer to make, no digital releasing  =music sticking around top 40 radio and a school dances etc forever.  The music choices made sense to me.

[NeenerNeener]

I don't know, the whole idea of people becoming addicted to a D&D clone seems kind of lame and doesn't justify all the weird shit with the poison chalices that's gone on in the last few episodes. Unless the Gargoyle King is actually one of the witches from Greendale I'm going to be very disappointed with the resolution of this story line.  A mundane, kids-hallucinating-Slenderman explanation just won't cut it for me.

Well, at least we didn't have to sit through Shawshank Fight Club this week.

[Alice Mudgarden]

I LOVED this episode. My favorite references were the "Dream Warriors" performance and the IT shout-out with Loser/Lover written on FP's arm cast.

Seriously, I think this was the best episode of the series.

[thuganomics85]

Riverdale's bizarre anti-Dungeons & Dragons stance continues, I see!  Someone in the writers' room clearly has bad memories.  It's like their version of "Video games can fry your minds and kill you, kids!"

Pretty fun episode, even though I never really could get pass that it was the younger actors playing the adult characters, and no one simply became the actual characters.  Surprisingly, I think the closet was K.J. Apa as Fred.  I did enjoy Madelaine Petsch's take on a more "by the rules" Penelope (and damn, her backstory was fucked up), and Lili Reinhart was rocking the 80s punk look.  Also good to know that Reggie is apparently just his dad's son, because they pretty much were the same in every way.  And Mark Consuelos' son is a dead ringer for him.

So, now the Gargoyle King is likely one of the "Midnight Club" members.  I so wanted it to be Hiram, because the image of a so-called mobster to end all mobsters dressing up in fantasy cosplays to scare teenagers is even more hilarious then a mobster whose whole operation can fall apart thanks to a bunch of pesky kids!

That ending was something!  Gold star to Cole Sprouse for just going all in with the "I'm obsessively crazy now!" performance.

Edited November 9, 2018 by thuganomics85

[Snookums]

Okay, this kind of wacky hijinx I can get behind!

You could tell the actors were all having a ton of fun (especially Lili and Madeline trying not to laugh during their bathroom beatdown) and running around pretending that some D&D clone game could warp young minds. Loved present day Hermione trying to deliver that speech all seriously, kids, it'll kill ya!

So, finally somebody told the writers continuity is a thing, and the past actually could be tracked to what's happening now, like Young Mayor McCoy and Young Sheriff as the star-crossed lovers (they really sold their goodbye on the stairs) and Alice and FP and Fred having the same triangle that popped up now and again in the present generation. Hermione announcing she likes the idea of being free of morality and Penelope's FUCKED UP home life--seriously, VC Andrews would have looked indignantly over her half moon glasses and announced "there is a line and you have crossed it" at that--also line up nicely with current events.

Even little bits that seemed just like one note jokes, like AMH playing Principal Featherhead, actually played into the story. He leaves the kids alone for eight hours every Saturday and naps in his office "because I've got nothing better to do?" That actually plays into the later conclusion that he killed himself--that was a very depressed person statement. And the actual mystery of who/what dresses up as the King and leaves goblets of poison around is interesting for once.

Things I didn't quite get and/or liked:

The music, as many pointed out, was firmly mid eighties but Alice said this was the early nineties in her narration. I assume it was a combination of trying to warp the feel of the time period and rights issues to the songs.

Penelope's braces were a terrific touch.

Young Mayor McCoy's changing her hair from natural to relaxed after the murder was a very good indication of her abandoning her old ideals along with her young love and embracing mainstream values.

What exactly was the timeline on Alice's pregnancy??? Even if she was only about six hours pregnant when she took the test this whole Midnight Club thing seems to have gone on a good four or five months, and she was not showing AT. ALL.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

No surprise to me that the teen actors playing their parents distracted me, since I was comparing their acting from teen to parent, and almost all of them felt like their regular characters. I get that kids can emulate their parents, but some people didn't feel like their adult counterpart. 

The only actress that actually felt like she changed her acting was Lili Reinhart.

Good point, Veronica/Hermione even did her identical dancing/tambourine thing when they were having their rock band thing.  No difference there.  Oh well, like mother, like daughter.  I did like KJ's portrayal of Fred, whereas I can't stand Archie.  Goes to show how you can dislike a character but not the actor underneath.

 

2 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Well, at least we didn't have to sit through Shawshank Fight Club this week.

Thanks, I appreciated that as well.  I kept thinking how wonderful it was not being subjected to Archie's macho cage fighter routine (although I guess they fight in a pool).  Better episode than I expected.

[Moxie Cat]

4 hours ago, angelusgirl said:

Heck Fred looked so much like 90210 Luke Perry, it was scary.

As a person who has watched 90210 reruns WAY too much, I would venture to guess that all of those outfits were lifted directly from Dylan 90210 ensembles. Even the suit at the diner (for the funeral), I was questioning if that was a lift from the ep with Jack McKay's funeral. And Apa was amazing - really, the best of the the younger actors in imitating their "parents." I always think he's the weak link on the show and was glad to be wrong this week.

On the other hand, I remember Madchen Amick's freaking awesome Twin Peaks hair, and no dice, wig crew.

[Advance35]

I hope at some point, the writers ease up on their Cooper Woman obsession.   On reflection, I know others might not agree but I feel like the Lodges are very much underserved.  I think the episode did a good job of showing why Hermione was drawn to Hiram (she didn't want to end up like her Mother) but Hermione (the one we saw tonight) was NOT a head turner, she was mousy, sheltered and pretty guileless.   

Someone on another board asked and now I'm curious, what did Hiram see in Hermione?

Though we did see she wanted to be free of the stringent structure her Mother had (a reviewer pointed out the irony that all she really did was trade one controlling force, her Mom, for another in Hiram).  Still I can't imagine what about her was able to reel Hiram in.

[Snookums]

I think Hiram saw in Hermione what a striver needs to succeed: somebody who cheers him on while longing for what he can provide. 

Hermione is basically Lucy Audley (from Lady Audley's Secret: read it if you haven't!)--she's somebody who's had quite enough of poverty, of the endless grind that gets you nowhere and the empty promises of virtuous living. In Hiram she undoubtedly saw what she not only wanted to be, but was deep inside; someone who refused to let "morality" keep all the goodies and baubles of life out of her hands. Hiram, to her, embodied courage and striving and the self-belief she thought was beyond her own reach. Throw in his interest in her and the fact that he's a young Marc Consuelos? Stronger women than you and me have fallen willingly into that web.

Hermione loves what money can buy far too much to take any kind of principled stand against Hiram's means and methods. Combining that with his own need to be worshiped/feared and you've got a match made in Hell.

[Enginerd]

I was in high school in the early 90s and the music seemed spot on to me. Yes, it was from a few years earlier,  but it's what we still listened to, along with a few more current hits. Especially in a small, more remote town, with only one or two radio stations and MTV if you had cable, no streaming, no internet, far fewer channels and stations, the average teen just wasn't exposed to as many listening options as today and hits stayed popular for years.

KJ was excellent in this episode. I was totally seeing a young Fred and not Archie.

I think the Blossoms are behind the game. It's right up their Gothic alley, plus Penelope sure jumped right in to taking charge and getting them more into the game, bring the gem to hunt for, pairing people off, etc. The chalices and catering also had a rather Blossom air about them. Also, her dancing was a hoot. I suspected way back in the first season, when Penelope talked about the Blossoms, that she'd been a Blossom before she got married, but I thought she was a cousin or something. This is sick and twisted. How has the whole town kept quiet about that all these years?

[methodwriter85]

2 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I was in high school in the early 90s and the music seemed spot on to me. Yes, it was from a few years earlier,  but it's what we still listened to, along with a few more current hits. Especially in a small, more remote town, with only one or two radio stations and MTV if you had cable, no streaming, no internet, far fewer channels and stations, the average teen just wasn't exposed to as many listening options as today and hits stayed popular for years.

I was kind of seeing it as the music that was part of their childhood- mid-1980's would have been late elementary school/middle school for them. It's symbolic because these are the last days of their childhood. And 1992 still had vestiges of the 80's around- the 80's weren't really totally done until about 1994. 1992 is still the tail end of the 80's.

 

1 hour ago, Snookums said:

I think Hiram saw in Hermione what a striver needs to succeed: somebody who cheers him on while longing for what he can provide. 

Hermione is basically Lucy Audley (from Lady Audley's Secret: read it if you haven't!)--she's somebody who's had quite enough of poverty, of the endless grind that gets you nowhere and the empty promises of virtuous living. In Hiram she undoubtedly saw what she not only wanted to be, but was deep inside; someone who refused to let "morality" keep all the goodies and baubles of life out of her hands. Hiram, to her, embodied courage and striving and the self-belief she thought was beyond her own reach. Throw in his interest in her and the fact that he's a young Marc Consuelos? Stronger women than you and me have fallen willingly into that web.

That is really great analysis. Spot-on.

[PeekaBoo]

7 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

As a person who has watched 90210 reruns WAY too much, I would venture to guess that all of those outfits were lifted directly from Dylan 90210 ensembles. Even the suit at the diner (for the funeral), I was questioning if that was a lift from the ep with Jack McKay's funeral. And Apa was amazing - really, the best of the the younger actors in imitating their "parents." I always think he's the weak link on the show and was glad to be wrong this week.

WooHoo! I wasn't the only one! lol! KJ totally nailed Luke Perry, it came to a point during the episode that I swore I could nearly hear Luke/Dylan's voice, all soft and throaty,  it was such a throwback! Totally impressed! As for the outfits, that one with the blue shirt I thought it came straight from Saved By the Bell, ahahahah... 

[ruby24]

Is Jughead even aware about Alice and FP yet? Their history, I mean. (I don't think Betty or Jughead knows their parents are sleeping together now).

Seems like Betty should have told him they share a brother, but I don't think anyone has. Am I wrong?

[SourK]

On 11/7/2018 at 9:08 PM, Advance35 said:

I didn't hate the episode, but I wonder if I would have loved it more if they had casted different actors as the parents? Or maybe if the flashback had been from the viewpoint of someone else. ...

The Gargoyle Game was the least interesting aspect of this episode.

Yeah, I was disappointed that the actors didn't try harder to do an impression of their "adult" counterparts -- or, if they did, that it didn't work very well. I love Camilla Mendes as Veronica, but Hermione gives off a very different kind of energy and has a different way of speaking that didn't come across at all.

I am grudgingly willing to be interested in the idea that some psychopath invented G&G as a deliberate programming/brainwashing tool, but I still wish the story wasn't about this.

On 11/7/2018 at 9:20 PM, jay741982 said:

Also I just knew Betty was stumble onto Juggy getting addicted to that damn game at the end of the episode given what the description for next week entailed 

 

I love that, in the short time it took her to spend an evening hearing about her mom's high school days, Jughead went from Not At All Involved in G&G to The Most Batshit Stan for G&G That Ever Was. Like maybe FP was right and Jughead does not have the constitution to read the rule book for this game.

(I also think it's really funny that the two of them have decided to turn this gross, haunted bomb shelter into their love nest and that he's now ruining it by having people over to play a tabletop RPG).

On 11/7/2018 at 9:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

Penelope has a seriously messed up backstory. Seriously, the Blossoms are more and more of a super messed up Tennessee Williams play every time we focus on them. She was adopted for her red hair, so she could marry her brother? Gross!

And yet part of me thought, "Well, they're not actually brother and sister, so that's better than I expected it to be?"

[Snapdragon]

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, now the Gargoyle King is likely one of the "Midnight Club" members.  I so wanted it to be Hiram, because the image of a so-called mobster to end all mobsters dressing up in fantasy cosplays to scare teenagers is even more hilarious then a mobster whose whole operation can fall apart thanks to a bunch of pesky kids!

My guess is that the original Gargoyle King was teenage Hal, who found out about the game and wanted to punish them all for being sinners.  Then it'll turn out that the current Gargoyle King is fake Chic because instead of killing him (we didn't actually see him die and they never found a body), Hal converted him and made him his disciple.  So with Hal in jail, fake Chic is continuing Hal's dark work.  Makes sense?  Absolutely not!  But this is Riverdale so making sense is not a pre-requisite.  

Agree with everyone else that KJ did the best job with channeling the adult he was supposed to be playing.  Everyone else played the same character they usually play, just in different clothes.  

While I felt that the 80s music was a little out of place given that the episode took place around 1992, I figured it was due to the fact that the entire thing was a big Breakfast Club homage.  

Good to know that Hiram was as ridiculously dramatic as a teen as he is as an adult, what with his pearl necklaces and mi amors.

[Advance35]

8 hours ago, Snookums said:

I think Hiram saw in Hermione what a striver needs to succeed: somebody who cheers him on while longing for what he can provide. 

Hermione is basically Lucy Audley (from Lady Audley's Secret: read it if you haven't!)--she's somebody who's had quite enough of poverty, of the endless grind that gets you nowhere and the empty promises of virtuous living. In Hiram she undoubtedly saw what she not only wanted to be, but was deep inside; someone who refused to let "morality" keep all the goodies and baubles of life out of her hands. Hiram, to her, embodied courage and striving and the self-belief she thought was beyond her own reach. Throw in his interest in her and the fact that he's a young Marc Consuelos? Stronger women than you and me have fallen willingly into that web.

Hermione loves what money can buy far too much to take any kind of principled stand against Hiram's means and methods. Combining that with his own need to be worshiped/feared and you've got a match made in Hell.

Please tell me you have an "in" with the writers.  It explains so much about the Lodges, in their own way, they can be just as dark as the Blossom's. 

It's a big cast, so I understand, but I wish we had more time with young Hermione.  Her telling FP he should talk to Alice, her checking on Alice in the stall, I wonder what Hermione would have been like had she not gotten involved with Hiram.  Though it's worth noting, she seems aware of what Hiram is capable of but I've yet to detect regret about her life with him. 

Another character beat that stuck out to me, was that Hiram seems to have been just fine.   

Fred, FP, Alice and Penelope all had visible adverse effects from the G&G game, I'd say Hermione was affected as well, but Hiram rose high.  Was he able to shrug off everything that happened?  Was his blood always cold?

Some of the Parents stories have so much potential.

[Enginerd]

So NANA Blossom, the one member of the family who was decent to Cheryl and Polly, was responsible for adopting Penelope and grooming her to marry Clifford?! The red hair thing makes me wonder if Penelope is secretly Mary's half sister or something.

[DigitalCount]

I have to wonder if they're trying to say this is A Thing the Blossoms do in order to wash away the grossness of Jason/Cheryl, and one of them was actually not a Blossom to begin with. The problem is that they were raised as siblings and thus should still find it gross, but it felt very "let's retcon S1...again" to me.

Also, what is Jughead's deal? He became obsessed with the game in even less time than he became obsessed with the Southside identity, which is saying something. Does he just have really low boundaries? Or is that just a testament to how addictive and dangerous G&G is? (Speaking of the 80s, wow the D&D panic is real, way to have your finger on the pulse of your audience)

Edited November 9, 2018 by DigitalCount
Additions

[Enginerd]

33 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

I have to wonder if they're trying to say this is A Thing the Blossoms do in order to wash away the grossness of Jason/Cheryl, and one of them was actually not a Blossom to begin with. The problem is that they were raised as siblings and thus should still find it gross, but it felt very "let's retcon S1...again" to me.

Are they trying to say "it's not really incestuous" or "this family is so incestuous and has so normalized incest amongst themselves that they don't even know how off they are; they are more depraved than anyone"?  Because either way it's gross. If you're adopted and raised together as siblings, you're siblings, shared DNA or not.

[DigitalCount]

I think they're trying to go with "Cheryl and Jason didn't share a blood relation." I agree, it's still off. My guess is, Jason is adopted and he's actually Mary's son. That would pay off the continual mentions of how Archie and Jason apparently looked alike.

[HeatLifer]

Alice and FP’s relationship seemed super shallow. Alice described FP as seemingly some ladies man, annoyed that he was probs hooking up with others. Weirdly, Alice seemed more real and open with Fred compared to everyone else. I don’t know if that was the intention, but it was what came across to me.

I also thought it was humorous that Alice said they all went their separate ways but then ended up moving next door to Fred and their children became best friends. 

KJ did an excellent job. I was really impressed with the way he was able to separate from Archie even though Archie and Fred have/had very similar qualities.

Edited November 9, 2018 by HeatLifer

[Daltrey]

On 11/7/2018 at 6:00 PM, SeanC said:

Best episode ever.

God dammit! exactly what I planned to say before it was even half over, then I thought "I bet someone beats me to it.", lol! Congratulations, you win. ;)

They had me at Breakfast Club....too late to say more now, must be off to bed.

[1TrackMind]

So I seem to be in the minority in thinking this was the most cringe inducing shit ever? I see a lot of Best Episode Ever...and here I was thinking it was the worst. That's okay, I can wave my banner in my corner LOL!

[schweet]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/riverdalefoodies/can-we-guess-which-riverdale-character-you-are-bas-3o825?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bfsharefacebook&utm_term=.tyjbYxwZn&quiz_result=121966132_363624311&fbclid=IwAR13ppJ0scvYeXBGjOPXs8l-RvBnBPJjGiq87IW9N4xgM_y8yTDuWz-QyUw#121966132

[PeekaBoo]

On 11/20/2018 at 3:22 AM, 1TrackMind said:

So I seem to be in the minority in thinking this was the most cringe inducing shit ever? I see a lot of Best Episode Ever...and here I was thinking it was the worst. That's okay, I can wave my banner in my corner LOL!

Awww, it's totally okay to cringe over the episode, to each their own!
I mean, I thought it was good and all and I will repeat, Kj and Lili rocked their roles but for the general sense, I did not buy the kids being their parents (And cole, as much as he tried to repeat Skeet's younger facial expressions, sorry, I just didn't see it..). I secretly wished they would've picked other actors to play the parents as kids but hey, that's my opinion... 
Now your comment I could have applied to the musical episode. lol! Now that was cringe fest! 
You wave your banner proudly! :-D