S10.E05: Good Grief

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, Tanichka said:

I do find Lily funny.  She's just a bit naughty.  There's nothing wrong with her acting.  Check out Luke, if you want wooden & inarticulate.

I don't think Lily is that terrible; she's not great, but she's not terrible.  That's also how I'd categorize Luke.  Manny is the one I think is a truly awful actor, and he has been since the second season.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t think lily is terrible but now that’s shes older and doing mean sneaky things, it kind of grates. It was cute and funny when she was little but now not so much.

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I feel like starving yourself to the point that your brain can't even function properly is even more disturbing. It was a really strange choice for the writers to make, because it was depressing, and the "Haley is eating!" jokes really weren't that funny.

This episode felt a little bit revisionist to me, because didn't Dede drive Mitchell nuts, too? Their relationship wasn't as contentious as Dede and Claire's, but it still seemed pretty rough. You'd think from this that he was a total mama's boy.

I thought Mitch was very close to DeeDee. 

[Gummo]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I actually thought she was going to be the one who ate Jays sandwich.

Now that would have been funny AND made sense, in the context of the episode.

[VCRTracking]

I wish Claire would've acknowledged that she is just like her mother. Sure she's nicer to her kids but she's just as controlling and always demanding everything go her own way. The first Halloween episode a very good example of that.

Edited October 25, 2018 by VCRTracking

[PradaKitty]

I absolutely loved the CameronMitchellLily costumes! I thought that was hilarious, especially Cam as Meghan Markle. I seriously adored Alex’s RBG costume, too. Gloria was great as Marilyn Monroe and I’m assuming Jay was Joe DiMaggio. 

I love the costumes on this show and am poking forward to seeing what the Conners come up with next week.

As for Lily, it’s not bad acting at all. Lily is just “over it” and speaks in a monotone because she’s dealing with a couple of over the top fathers. If you watch the early shows, baby lily never cracked a smile. 

I’m kind of over the Manny character- it was cute when he was a little boy acting like a tiny Hugh Hefner. Now, it’s just disturbing. 

Oh, and the Hailey stuffing her face may be a call out to all of the people telling the actress (Sarah  Hyland? Sarah something or other) that she’s too skinny and needs to eat. She’s been mercilessly hounded on social media about her body (even though she has been dealing with health issues for years). 

Still lovin’ this show! 

LOOKING forward! 

[emcmac87]

So, as a child, I did actually get news that my cousin had passed away on Halloween, so I had a hard time being objective about the episode. Still hard to see kids wearing that costume. But I thought some of the comedy was overdone  and surprised Dylan wasn’t there. 

[Ottis]

I’m shocked people are so bothered that characters on a sitcom about a relatively shallow family didn’t act grief stricken enough. I thought there was too much grief about a bit character we hardly saw and mostly didn’t like. 

Second that Cam in his Markle outfit was disturbing. It seemed very half assed for Cam.

That Dede doll... was it something left over from Cheers? 

Dylan dying would have been more significant, given Haylie just chose him. 

I was with Jay. Where’s my sandwich. 

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I thought Mitch was very close to DeeDee. 

It seemed like he was usually mad at her, though. He flipped out on her in the episode where she was controlling him through Cam, and he and Claire would fight over who had to deal with her.

3 hours ago, PradaKitty said:

Oh, and the Hailey stuffing her face may be a call out to all of the people telling the actress (Sarah  Hyland? Sarah something or other) that she’s too skinny and needs to eat. She’s been mercilessly hounded on social media about her body (even though she has been dealing with health issues for years). 

Ugh, I forgot about that. That makes it in even poorer taste, IMO, for there to be jokes about her being malnourished. I know there have been lines on the show about how she's always hungry, but suggesting that her stupidity just stems from lack of food is taking it to another level.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

15 hours ago, mwell345 said:

MF isn't worth it any more.  They just need to let the show end - why they continue to let it limp along is beyond me.  Take a cue from The Middle. 

Not that I think he would have added anything, but where has Manny been the last couple of episodes - we saw him briefly last episode, then got stuck with his obnoxious girlfriend, and last night he was nowhere to be seen (babysitting Joe).

And I agree that the Lily scene at the end was just awful.    I thought the best scene was Cam and Phil in the car  - those two play off each other well, and yet, they have very few scenes together.

Totally____ agree about that scene with Phil and Cam in the car.  That scene seemed very real .

[Token]

I haven't watched this show in a long time and happened to watch this episode last night.  WTF happened to the Lily character???  She was such a cute kid and she seems to have turned into.... a not-so-attractive young woman who doesn't seem to be able to string together a coherent sentence and has zero emotional range.  What the hell happened???  Did they turn the character into a psychopath or something?

[Enigma X]

In my  opinion, Lily has turned into the exact person I thought she would. I am not complimenting her either.

 

I get this is a comedy but did expect more grief. In hindsight I do get it. The grandkids are closer to Jay, because they grew up around him.

[LizDC]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

That Dede doll... was it something left over from Cheers? 

Nope. Made especially for this episode...

Quote

What did Shelley say when you told her that the Grim Reaper was coming?
I didn’t have the conversation with her. Our casting director, Jeff Greenberg, did — because he’s got a long history [with her]. He worked on Cheers. I think she was okay with it, certainly — we’re near the end our run anyway. She cooperated, of course. It was very nice go in and do that little 3-D scan for the DeDe doll and she did the voicemail. So that was nice.

https://ew.com/tv/2018/10/24/modern-family-death-good-grief-halloween-episode/2/

[lynxfx]

I honestly can't remember a single Dede episode so her death did absolutely nothing for me. The intro music was very awkwardly placed.

Overall, really disappointed with this episode. The lowest of the season which has been pretty good so far. 

I also used to be a defender of Lilly and her acting but this season it is on a whole new level of suck. Before when she was snarky and a bit dry you could say it was done pretty well for a child. It seemed to fit with the fam dynamic. Now it looks like it is so hard for her to get out a complete sentence and she is very aware of the fact that she is acting. Time to limit the kids and give more meat to the pros.

[Eataton]

On 10/25/2018 at 12:51 AM, NUguy514 said:

Claire's smug little "Mmm" confessional after Mitchell said he knows Jay loves Claire and him equally?

Claire really is a snotty bitch, so I guess it didn't bother me because it's the kind of response I'd expect from her.

[seacliffsal]

I really liked the costumes for Mitch, Cam, and Lilly.  Over the top and yet so appropriate for that family.  I also really liked Jay and Gloria as Joe Dimaggio (sp) and Marilyn Monroe.  Disappointed in Claire and Phil's costumes though-I'm sure the writers went with the spider so that all of the hugging would be awkward; however, I didn't really think the joke was worth the disappointing costumes.  

I enjoyed the 'haunting' of Gloria and her reactions every time she saw the figurine.

And, in a moment of transparency, I had tears in my eyes several times during the episode.  It doesn't matter how many years ago my mom and dad died, I tend to tear up when shows depict the death of a parent.  

And, another moment of transparency, I was so relieved that the death wasn't Stella and that Manny wasn't in the episode. 

[quangtran]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:07 AM, Blakeston said:

This episode felt a little bit revisionist to me, because didn't Dede drive Mitchell nuts, too? Their relationship wasn't as contentious as Dede and Claire's, but it still seemed pretty rough. You'd think from this that he was a total mama's boy.

Nope, not revisionist at all.

- Dede's first episode had them joking about how Claire called Jay "daddy" while Mitch called Dede "mommy".

- Mitch has always been considered a mama's boy, and Jay outright labeled him as such in the episode "Ten Years Later".

- They writers made a big deal of how Jay stopped calling him every week liked he used to after Mitch officially came out, hence MItch started talking more to his mom instead.

- The whole Crazy Train episode was about Mitch always taking her side.

[Tanichka]

On 25/10/2018 at 5:34 PM, PradaKitty said:

As for Lily, it’s not bad acting at all. Lily is just “over it” and speaks in a monotone because she’s dealing with a couple of over the top fathers. If you watch the early shows, baby lily never cracked a smile. 

Yes!  I like her dry delivery.  She's compensating for the dramatic dads.

On 25/10/2018 at 8:21 PM, Ottis said:

I’m shocked people are so bothered that characters on a sitcom about a relatively shallow family didn’t act grief stricken enough. I thought there was too much grief about a bit character we hardly saw and mostly didn’t like. 

Thank you!   

I don't get people who are so invested in people who aren't real.   

[jmonique]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:12 PM, Token said:

I haven't watched this show in a long time and happened to watch this episode last night.  WTF happened to the Lily character???  She was such a cute kid and she seems to have turned into.... a not-so-attractive young woman who doesn't seem to be able to string together a coherent sentence and has zero emotional range.  What the hell happened???  Did they turn the character into a psychopath or something?

I think “WTF happened” is, she’s 11 years old (born June 2007), and not everyone swans through their preteen years like Jr Miss America’s Top Model.

Also, it’s not like the show has given her the best training material for some time.

[Tanichka]

Funny, I was thinking that Lily is turning into quite an attractive, young lady.  What's wrong with her looks?  I think she delivers her lines the way "Lily" would -- rolling her eyes at her dads.

[possibilities]

I think she looks like an 11 year old. I like it. The writing isn't great, but the same could be said about an of the other kids at this point.

[Enigma X]

I think the actress who plays Lily looks fine. I do think her acting is wooden and has always been. But her acting is not why I don't like Lily. I don't like the character Lily. Someone else can play her, but, if written the same way, I would not like that character either.

[WhosThatGirl]

Here’s the thing, sometimes I like Lily’s dead pan delivery but other times it just doesn’t fit and it kind if comes off just not nice and falls flat to me.

This problem happens with other characters, too, like actually Claire and for me like many others in this episode when Mitch said “of Fourier I know dad loves me the same as you” and Claire did her little ..”yeah” and then her thing to the camera so. Like.. was that funny? Because it didn’t feel funny. 

And the ending bit with Lily. I think the doll thing was kind of funny but eating Jays sandwich.. really? That’s not funny. I think it would have been funnier if it had been haley who ate it. In fact, while Jay and Mitch and Claire were all hugging, have Haley come out finishing the sandwich of something. 

[readster]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Here’s the thing, sometimes I like Lily’s dead pan delivery but other times it just doesn’t fit and it kind if comes off just not nice and falls flat to me.

And the ending bit with Lily. I think the doll thing was kind of funny but eating Jays sandwich.. really? That’s not funny. I think it would have been funnier if it had been haley who ate it. In fact, while Jay and Mitch and Claire were all hugging, have Haley come out finishing the sandwich of something. 

That's what really made me hate what they did with Lilly this episode. When she just comes off saying: "Oh, and I ate grandpa's sandwich." Which she then kind of smiles at it came off as just completely mean. Haley eating it, would have sold the subplot and been funny. It would have been in character for Haley too, that she ate the sandwich on her eating binge. However, to have this BIG reveal that Lilly had been messing with Gloria's mind and then at the end say she ate the sandwich just because. Came off as not only mean spirited and made you want to go: "Where the hell was that coming from?" 

Edited October 28, 2018 by readster

[biakbiak]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:09 PM, Caseysgirl said:

There must be something to Haley eating so much that will be incorporated into the storyline. Is she pregnant in real life & there is going to be a fat girl story ( like they did with Jamie Presley on “Mom”.). She should fire the makeup people because those thick eyebrows their drawing really detract from her usual pretty face.

Since it’s only been in this episode pretty sure it was just another example of how people deal with grief.

I loved that Lily’s remembrance for Dede was to mess with Gloria for the day.

[Nordly Beaumont]

57 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Since it’s only been in this episode pretty sure it was just another example of how people deal with grief.

I agree. They covered the different ways of grieving with each of the kids. Turning to food for comfort, turning to sex for comfort, cracking jokes to avoid your feelings. And Lily messing with Gloria and eating Jay's sandwich because Dede would get a kick out of it. I thought it was all very cute.

[WhosThatGirl]

The only reason the Haley eating a lot bugged me was what another few posters said that apparently Haley may be starving herself and also considering the fact that SH gets bashed constantly online for her appearance being considered too skinny and it’s because of something she has no control if, felt odd to me. I agree eating a lot is a way people grieve but maybe she wasn’t the character to project that on cconsidering.

[SanDiegoInExile]

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The only reason the Haley eating a lot bugged me was what another few posters said that apparently Haley may be starving herself and also considering the fact that SH gets bashed constantly online for her appearance being considered too skinny and it’s because of something she has no control if, felt odd to me. I agree eating a lot is a way people grieve but maybe she wasn’t the character to project that on cconsidering.

I suspect 

Spoiler

..she is eating for two...

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

I suspect 

  Hide contents

..she is eating for two...

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if they go there. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/24/2018 at 9:08 PM, Kiddvideo said:

Dang it. I never liked DeDe, but I was hoping it was Pam. Claire and Mitchell, Crazy 2.0.

Not to mention, Pam dying would have made sense; they already act like Cal is their kid, not like they are just taking care of him temporarily (there was dialogue between Mitchell and Cam last week, paraphrased, which included something like "since we had kids," implying that they consider Cal a permanent part of their household.)

[Blakeston]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:06 PM, quangtran said:

Nope, not revisionist at all.

- Dede's first episode had them joking about how Claire called Jay "daddy" while Mitch called Dede "mommy".

- Mitch has always been considered a mama's boy, and Jay outright labeled him as such in the episode "Ten Years Later".

- They writers made a big deal of how Jay stopped calling him every week liked he used to after Mitch officially came out, hence MItch started talking more to his mom instead.

- The whole Crazy Train episode was about Mitch always taking her side.

But they also repeatedly showed her driving him nuts. I thought it was a little weird that he made his relationship with her sound so warm.

lt would be like if Jay died, and Claire made it sound like they always saw eye-to-eye, when in reality she spends half her time fuming at him or trying to deceive him.

[possibilities]

Pam wouldn't have had an impact on anyone out side the Mitch-Cam part of the family, though. DeDe got every character to react.

People often overly sentimentalize their relationships when reflecting on them right after a death, so I didn't have a problem with that happening this episode, even though I thought it was clearly inaccurate based on the overall history.

[ljenkins782]

7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Quote

 

Nope, not revisionist at all.

- Dede's first episode had them joking about how Claire called Jay "daddy" while Mitch called Dede "mommy".

- Mitch has always been considered a mama's boy, and Jay outright labeled him as such in the episode "Ten Years Later".

- They writers made a big deal of how Jay stopped calling him every week liked he used to after Mitch officially came out, hence MItch started talking more to his mom instead.

- The whole Crazy Train episode was about Mitch always taking her side.

 

But they also repeatedly showed her driving him nuts. I thought it was a little weird that he made his relationship with her sound so warm.

lt would be like if Jay died, and Claire made it sound like they always saw eye-to-eye, when in reality she spends half her time fuming at him or trying to deceive him.

It's absolutely standard behavior to romanticize the past/glaze over grievances once someone dies, especially in the immediate aftermath. Claire's focus on the bad things is more odd, but could be explained by the fact that her last interaction with her mom was bad and she was looking for a way to deal with that. 

Quote

 

Quote

I’m shocked people are so bothered that characters on a sitcom about a relatively shallow family didn’t act grief stricken enough. I thought there was too much grief about a bit character we hardly saw and mostly didn’t like. 

Thank you!   

I don't get people who are so invested in people who aren't real.   

 

The level of the investment the audience has in a character is an entirely separate entity from the investment that a fictional family should feel for a character who was very much a part of their lives. The entire construct of the show is dependent on how the characters interact with each other as a family, why would this episode suddenly become about the relationship the audience has with a bit character? 

So, no I don't think anyone here was suggesting any big investment with the Dede character by noting that there was a lack of believable grief for a mother/ex-wife, ex-MIL, etc. It's a critique of the writing and acting. 

[DrSpaceman73]

I know what bugged me the most about this episode

The "voice mail from the dead person" idea has been done so much on TV/movies that it has become cliche

How I Met Your Mother did almost that exact same story when Marshall's dad died, a decade ago. 

[quangtran]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:53 AM, Blakeston said:

lt would be like if Jay died, and Claire made it sound like they always saw eye-to-eye, when in reality she spends half her time fuming at him or trying to deceive him.

That's completely standard family behaviour. They say your worst arguments are with the people you love the most, them them arguing all the time doesn't discount a loving relationship, espescially given that Jay has stated the Claire is his favourite and Claire jokes about being her dad's daughter and son.

Quote

But they also repeatedly showed her driving him nuts.

I don't think this is actually true. Jesse Tyler and Shelly Long have not shared that many scenes during the entire series. They've only had three episodes of any meaningful interaction (The Incident, Sarge & Pea and Mother!).

Edited October 31, 2018 by quangtran

[Blakeston]

On 10/30/2018 at 9:15 PM, quangtran said:

That's completely standard family behaviour. They say your worst arguments are with the people you love the most, them them arguing all the time doesn't discount a loving relationship, espescially given that Jay has stated the Claire is his favourite and Claire jokes about being her dad's daughter and son.

I don't think this is actually true. Jesse Tyler and Shelly Long have not shared that many scenes during the entire series. They've only had three episodes of any meaningful interaction (The Incident, Sarge & Pea and Mother!).

In at least two of those three interactions, their relationship was way unhealthy, and he found her obnoxious. The "Mitch is such a momma's boy" stuff seemed like a classic case of the writers failing to show rather than tell.

With Claire going on and on about how bad her relationship with her mother was, I would hope that Mitch would at least point out that his relationship with her wasn't perfect, either. But I guess that's asking for too much maturity from these characters.

[Tosia]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:31 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

I know what bugged me the most about this episode

The "voice mail from the dead person" idea has been done so much on TV/movies that it has become cliche

How I Met Your Mother did almost that exact same story when Marshall's dad died, a decade ago. 

It happened to me.  I got a voice mail from my mom a few days after she passed....back in >those days,  1993, there was sometimes a delay of messages.  She just was calling to chat and see what i was up to.....it was definitely hair-raising. 

[quangtran]

On 11/2/2018 at 10:47 AM, Blakeston said:

In at least two of those three interactions, their relationship was way unhealthy, and he found her obnoxious.

Only one, which was the episode Mother! Sarge and Pea was about the Pitchett kids blaming both parents for their upbringing.

Quote

The "Mitch is such a momma's boy" stuff seemed like a classic case of the writers failing to show rather than tell.

Really, really can't agree with you there considering the entirety of Dede's first episode "The Incident" was about Mitch being a mama's boy.

____________________

Mitch: Y-y-you see? Yeah, we're all gonna move past this. And because of me, who - who's not a mama's boy, But is a caring person with wisdom and emotional insight, So make a note, bitches!

Cam: That's not a good color on you.

____________________

Also, Mitch was a painfully awkward gay dork who was raised by a tradionalist dad; of course he'd choose his hippie new-age mother, despite whatever faults she had.

On 11/2/2018 at 10:47 AM, Blakeston said:

 I would hope that Mitch would at least point out that his relationship with her wasn't perfect, either.

It never had to be.

On 11/2/2018 at 10:47 AM, Blakeston said:

But I guess that's asking for too much maturity from these characters.

The episode was about everyone processing grief in different ways. Some people would think it mature point out faults and state objective truths, others think insulting the recently dead to be tacky.

Sorry to argure so hard on this, I just really don't agree.

[Blakeston]

15 hours ago, quangtran said:

Only one, which was the episode Mother! Sarge and Pea was about the Pitchett kids blaming both parents for their upbringing.

Really, really can't agree with you there considering the entirety of Dede's first episode "The Incident" was about Mitch being a mama's boy.

____________________

Mitch: Y-y-you see? Yeah, we're all gonna move past this. And because of me, who - who's not a mama's boy, But is a caring person with wisdom and emotional insight, So make a note, bitches!

Cam: That's not a good color on you.

____________________

Also, Mitch was a painfully awkward gay dork who was raised by a tradionalist dad; of course he'd choose his hippie new-age mother, despite whatever faults she had.

It never had to be.

The episode was about everyone processing grief in different ways. Some people would think it mature point out faults and state objective truths, others think insulting the recently dead to be tacky.

Sorry to argure so hard on this, I just really don't agree.

I'm not suggesting that he should have insulted the recently dead. I'm saying that all he had to do was point out that Claire wasn't the only one who fought with Dede.

And I think you're forgetting about the conflict between Mitch and Dede in the "Mother!" episode, where he was horrified to learn that she was constantly manipulating him. That was the most recent time we saw her, which is probably why it seems so weird to me that Mitch was presented as the ultimate mama's boy here.