S02.E06: Seven Deadly Sins and a Small Carl Sagan

[formerlyfreedom]

Mary clashes with Sheldon’s drama teacher over plans for a Halloween fundraiser for the church. Also, Georgie falls for a rebellious teenage girl that Sheldon is tutoring.

[Spartan Girl]

For the record, I hate hell houses, for all the reasons that Sheldon about Christianity using fear to gain more followers.

Poor Georgie, cockblocked by his mother's "heck" house, LOL.

I know Billy is slow, but he was so cute as Superman. And I loved how happy Sheldon was when someone finally figured out his costume.

[Frost]

I loved Veronica having an epiphany watching the Lust vignette and rushing to Heaven.  Poor Georgie.  

My church put together a haunted house for a fund raiser one year.  It scared me so much I've never even considered going into another one.  Not because of the wages of sin, but because of the people jumping out at me.

[Bugaboo]

I just simply love this show and everbody in it! 

[CherryAmes]

"They burn in hell because God loves them."  "Vindication, the sweetest candy of all." Oh man the lines on this show get better and better!

Edited October 26, 2018 by CherryAmes

[CherryAmes]

53 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

For the record, I hate hell houses, for all the reasons that Sheldon about Christianity using fear to gain more followers.

I had no idea these were an actual thing!

[chocolatine]

Missy's Cyndi Lauper hair and makeup were amazing, but I'm surprised that Mary let her wear a halter top.

Sheldon is often presented as an outcast with Tam being his only friend, but we see time and time again that the other high school kids adore him, like the blonde girl. The teenagers don't see him as a peer, but they don't bully or ostracize him either.

[AnnaRose]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

For the record, I hate hell houses, for all the reasons that Sheldon about Christianity using fear to gain more followers.

Poor Georgie, cockblocked by his mother's "heck" house, LOL.

I know Billy is slow, but he was so cute as Superman. And I loved how happy Sheldon was when someone finally figured out his costume.

Woah!  It's a real thing??!!

26 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

I had no idea these were an actual thing!

Me neither.  Yikes!

[Mystery]

Not enough Missy, but it was cute. 

I had no idea that those hell houses were really a thing! 

[mxc90]

What do you know about famine? 

Pastor Jeff! Are you trying to tell use something?

I was distracted by that background actor laughing as Veronica was listening to the sad story about lust. What the heck was so funny?

The church should be sued by that kid's parents for Lundy allowing that beating? 

Edited October 26, 2018 by mxc90

[Badsamaritan]

I'm pretty sure Pastor Jeff is a secret cross dresser. He was WAY too into his costume, and I loved the side eye George Sr gave him lol. 

[TigerLynx]

I was wondering if Georgie's comment of, "No one is as smart as Sheldon," was saying two different things.  One, that very few people will have an IQ as high as Sheldon, but two, that Sheldon isn't as smart as Sheldon, Mary and everyone else thinks he is because there are so many things (some social, but not all) that Sheldon is completely clueless about.

I wish I didn't know where Mary and George end up because I like them together.  The actor who plays George is really good to.  The casting (Sheldon, Missy, Georgie, Mary, MeeMaw, George) all around has been great.

Edited October 26, 2018 by TigerLynx

[Sara2009]

13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

For the record, I hate hell houses, for all the reasons that Sheldon about Christianity using fear to gain more followers.

Poor Georgie, cockblocked by his mother's "heck" house, LOL.

I know Billy is slow, but he was so cute as Superman. And I loved how happy Sheldon was when someone finally figured out his costume.

I HATE Hell Houses too. After I went to one, regular haunted houses never scared me again. It actually traumatized me for awhile.

[BitterApple]

I loved the first couple scenes, the last scene where Sheldon gets recognized as Carl Sagan, and Pastor Jeff as a cross-dresser. Everything else was a dud. I think Jason Alexander is a hammy actor and his wavering accent ruins the character. 

I was bummed we didn't get to see more of Missy in her Cyndi Lauper outfit.

[Zoe]

Kind of a middling episode after a few great ones.  The last scene was too cute though!

[CherryAmes]

It was still better than most shows in TV right now but I agree this wasn't one of their strongest efforts.  Hmm, I don't know if this is a pattern but I wonder if the spotlight is too much focused on the adults that the show isn't quite as good?

[Zoe]

Just now, CherryAmes said:

It was still better than most shows in TV right now but I agree this wasn't one of their strongest efforts.  Hmm, I don't know if this is a pattern but I wonder if the spotlight is too much focused on the adults that the show isn't quite as good?

That's definitely how I'm seeing it.

[rmontro]

I thought this episode was mostly forgettable.  Jason Alexander's character was mostly just annoying.

It was nice to see Georgie get something resembling his own storyline though.

[AnnaRose]

I think this is the first Young Sheldon episode I didn't really like.  My overwhelming aversion to all the Hell House stuff was so intense that it just ruined the episode for me.  I don't think I will watch this one again before I delete it.

I wish they would have left out all the Mary and church stuff and just focused on the kids.  There was almost no Missy in the episode, which is always a bad thing.

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Missy's Cyndi Lauper hair and makeup were amazing, but I'm surprised that Mary let her wear a halter top.

I'm guessing George was able to talk Mary into allowing it because it was just for one night and it's Halloween. He probably pointed out that Missy is old enough to understand the difference between a costume and what it's okay to wear in real life. 

[chitowngirl]

And halter tops are just tops-until puberty kicks in. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I agree with y’all that this show shines when the children are the focus. However, I would like to point out that Laurie Metcalf’s daughter is a treat to watch; sometimes Mary’s reactions are over the top, but the actress can still sell them as real and authentic.  

[CherryAmes]

Mary's reaction to the school drama teacher was so real to the times too.  I really appreciated that.  Given Mary being Mary and given this was the 80s it did not surprise me at all that she would not be able to stand up to him and instead went home and made that tuna casserole.  It must be a tough balancing act to write shows set in an earlier time and not have the characters act too much the way you'd expect someone to react in 2018!  It would have been satisfying to have Mary tell him to go to heck but it wouldn't have been all that likely to have happened.

[Pop Tart]

I loved this one more then many of you, sounds like. I loved all the interactions between Mary and the drama teacher and thought the way the story went was a nice surprise. Thought they'd go for Mary's version being another news-making disaster, but they turned it around.

Laughed a lot when George was pointing out all the deadly sins Mary was exhibiting when she was ranting about the drama teacher taking over her production (wrath, envy, pride...). And her horror that he was making the sins sound too good and his insistence that the subtext was there in the script? All worked for me. Especially with the payoff of her pastor just being happy they were making money - all while he stands there dressed as a woman (can't remember who). 

[AnnaRose]

19 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Laughed a lot when George was pointing out all the deadly sins Mary was exhibiting when she was ranting about the drama teacher taking over her production (wrath, envy, pride...).

Thanks for mentioning that - it was one of my favorite parts of the episode.

[Lily H]

This show seems to alternate between episodes I really enjoy, like the last one, and episodes I don't like at all, like this one. I think it must have something to do with the amount of Mary+religion vs. the amount of Missy.

[HurricaneVal]

Jason Alexander is pretty much just a caricature of himself anymore, isn't he?

[CherryAmes]

I thought that was the point though.  He's a small town drama teacher trying to act like a big star.  Worked for me :).

[BlossomCulp]

22 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

I thought that was the point though.  He's a small town drama teacher trying to act like a big star. 

His character on YS reminds me so much of our music teacher back in high school.  Very much giving the impression that he missed fame and fortune by "this much" and overacting all over the place. I'm guessing the writers on this show (or one of them anyway) had a similar teacher back in the day.

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

Especially with the payoff of her pastor just being happy they were making money - all while he stands there dressed as a woman (can't remember who). 

That was fantastic. I think he was supposed to be Carmen Miranda. 

[HazelEyes4325]

5 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

That was fantastic. I think he was supposed to be Carmen Miranda. 

Yes, it was Carmen Miranda--which was funny and all, but I'm not sure how Carmen Miranda was worked into the heck house idea.

[A-Lo]

Too much Jason Alexander, not enough Missy!  Although I agree with y'all that she looked adorable in her Cyndi Lauper costume!

[Zoe]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yes, it was Carmen Miranda--which was funny and all, but I'm not sure how Carmen Miranda was worked into the heck house idea.

I don't think he did it with the heck house in mind.  I'm kind of thinking it was supposed to tell us something about Pastor Jeff...

[Magnumfangirl]

4 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Laughed a lot when George was pointing out all the deadly sins Mary was exhibiting when she was ranting about the drama teacher taking over her production (wrath, envy, pride...).

That was hilarious, but the rest of the episode fell flat.  I like Jason Alexander, but his character here is just obnoxious.  Hell Houses were all the rage in the late 80s and into the 90s with churches in my neck of the woods (they were often called "Hereafter Houses").  So this could have been a a really funny episode, but the drama teacher sucked all the funny out of it, plus his costume was really creepy.  It would have been funnier to let the Cooper family set it all up and squabble over just how creepy/scary to make it. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Magnumfangirl

[eel2178]

21 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

22 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

For the record, I hate hell houses, for all the reasons that Sheldon about Christianity using fear to gain more followers.

Poor Georgie, cockblocked by his mother's "heck" house, LOL.

I know Billy is slow, but he was so cute as Superman. And I loved how happy Sheldon was when someone finally figured out his costume.

Woah!  It's a real thing??!!

21 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

I had no idea these were an actual thing!

Me neither.  Yikes!

This one was pretty mild. They used to have simulated abortions, drunk driving aftermaths, scenes of Columbine and JonBenet Ramsey. 

[freeser]

3 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

That was hilarious, but the rest of the episode fell flat.  I like Jason Alexander, but his character here is just obnoxious. ...  It would have been funnier to let the Cooper family set it all up and squabble over just how creepy/scary to make it. 

I also felt Jason Alexander's character was obnoxious and they gave him too much time in the episode. In another episode where Jason was just the drama teacher helping with "Annie" I didn't mind him so much.  This one fell flat for us.  We normally praise the show when it is over, but for the first time we really felt let down by this story.  

This is one of those rare shows where the central players - Mom and Dad, Meemaw, Sheldon, Missy, Georgie, Tam, and even the minister - are so good it seems a waste to not use them for the majority of the show.  By giving Jason Alexander such a big part meant that the others were just used to fill in a few minutes of show time.  They have got a great cast and do not need to have a 'guest star' take up so much of the show.  Use the good people you have to their fullest and we will be happy viewers.  

[Magnumfangirl]

3 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

I also call character assassination on Pastor Jeff, because this was a lazy stereotype of the insincere pastor who gives zero fucks about anything but cash and oh by the way is also closeted. It seems that Pastor Jeff has always been sincere and dedicated, if not a tremendously bright guy. Feels like a big step back. 

The Pastor as Carmen Miranda was weird.  Didn't he have a young wife who didn't speak English last year?

 

3 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

No freaking way a devout Baptist like Mary is letting her kids go trick or treating.

I know tons of Baptists who let their kids trick or treat.  Then and now.  

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

One of my least favorite episodes, mostly because so much of it was off. Missy's Cyndi Lauper poster next to an NKOTB one has bothered me for a year and a half, and they just doubled down on it. It was a cute outfit, but there is no way on this planet that a little girl as socially adept as Missy is dressing as Cyndi Lauper in 1989. 

I'm surprised they didn't go with Tiffany or Debbie Gibson. They would've been closer to relevance in the late 80s than Cyndi.

[CherryAmes]

9 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

Come to think of it, why was Tam the high schooler trick or treating? Maybe he was escorting the younger ones in costume, which is cool, but why the candy collecting? At least where I’m from, the hard cutoff is 8th grade. 

Glad I didn't trick or treat where you live!  Lots of kids did stop of their own accord by age 12 or 13 but teens going out was pretty common in my day and it's pretty common now.  I don't care.  If a teen wants to dress up and have some harmless fun and get a chocolate bar I'm absolutely fine with it.

[SpiritSong]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:49 AM, HurricaneVal said:

Jason Alexander is pretty much just a caricature of himself anymore, isn't he?

Yes, I hope that's the last we see of him. All of the other teachers at school are funnier. I'd like to see more of Billy's dad, too, if they're going to showcase adults. But they'd be better off making the majority of the shows about the kids. With a cast that talented it's a crime to underuse them.

 

On 10/26/2018 at 6:08 PM, LadyKenobi said:

Mostly, though, it was a missed opportunity. This episode insists on an overly simplistic view of Christianity ("Because God loves them!" "Who cares as long as we're making money?!"-- so tired and old.) Sheldon has more information than the whole "fear" aspect. That was a really good door through which Sheldon could start asking questions about free will,  making choices, and maybe the idea of predestination as a follow up to the last faith-centered episode.

I also call character assassination on Pastor Jeff, because this was a lazy stereotype of the insincere pastor who gives zero fucks about anything but cash and oh by the way is also closeted. It seems that Pastor Jeff has always been sincere and dedicated, if not a tremendously bright guy. Feels like a big step back. 

 

I think a lot of small town Christian churches are exactly like what was shown. Certainly not all, but there's a reason so many people are turned off by religiosity. "They'll burn in hell. Because God loves them." Um, yeah.  I do agree with you about the character assassination of Pastor Jeff. I'm hoping this was a one off.
 

[Sarah 103]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:52 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yes, it was Carmen Miranda--which was funny and all, but I'm not sure how Carmen Miranda was worked into the heck house idea.

I think it was just supposed to be a funny sight gag. 

On 10/26/2018 at 7:33 PM, eel2178 said:

This one was pretty mild. They used to have simulated abortions, drunk driving aftermaths, scenes of Columbine and JonBenet Ramsey. 

This whole heck house/hell house thing is totally new to me. I had never heard of it before this episode. I had heard of haunted houses, but not something like what we saw in the episode. I don't understand why scenes of Columbine and JonBenet Ramsey would be included. Yes they are awful events, but what the reason to include them? 

On 10/26/2018 at 9:08 PM, LadyKenobi said:

It was a cute outfit, but there is no way on this planet that a little girl as socially adept as Missy is dressing as Cyndi Lauper in 1989. By then she was ouuuuuuuttttt. It was all Milli Vanilli, Paula Abdul, and Janet Jackson. And the girls in the background have more accurate late 80's hair than any of the leads. It just bothers me when showrunners are lazy about details like this, like setting a show in 1962, which was basically an extension of the 50s, and showing people wandering around in love beads and hippie hair (which were more very early 70s than anything.) 

 

I agree with you. Some people continue to wear older styles after they are trendy. Even though Mad Men starts in the early 1960s, much of Betty's and Peggy's wardrobe/stye is still very 1950s. Even into the early 1960s you would still see many people wearing clothes from the previous decade. There's a big difference between having something too early (like love beads and tie-die something set in the early 1960s) and having something too late. Not everyone keeps up with the latest trends and wears the latest styles, so I think showing a range in a crowd scene or among characters is actually more accurate than having everyone looking like something from a 1989 catalogue/magazine.  

Edited October 28, 2018 by Sarah 103

[CherryAmes]

8 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

I do agree with you about the character assassination of Pastor Jeff. I'm hoping this was a one off.

Unless they're going to show us that he uses the money for his own personal benefit I don't see this.  One of the first times we ever meet Pastor Jeff we learn he has married an avaricious woman who speaks little English and who only married him to get into the US and because he lied to her and made her think he was well to do.  Right from the start we're given missed messages about Pastor Jeff.

Edited October 28, 2018 by CherryAmes

[Quark]

I thought this episode was great. The drama teacher was hilarious.

[ams1001]

20 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

This whole heck house/hell house thing is totally new to me. I had never heard of it before this episode. I had heard of haunted houses, but not something like what we saw in the episode. I don't understand why scenes of Columbine and JonBenet Ramsey would be included. Yes they are awful events, but what the reason to include them? 

It's all about using real-life situations that they deem sinful and showing you the consequences (namely, you go to hell*). Abortion is a favorite these days, from what I've read, though I'm not surprised they wouldn't go there in a show like this, or drugs, same-sex marriage (not in the 80s, of course), etc. The comment about using fear to bring people to the church isn't wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_house

 

*In their belief, of course. I don't believe in any of it. I was raised in mainstream Christianity (United Methodist; it didn't stick), on the east coast, and have never seen this kind of thing around where I live.

[SpiritSong]

6 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Unless they're going to show us that he uses the money for his own personal benefit I don't see this.  One of the first times we ever meet Pastor Jeff we learn he has married an avaricious woman who speaks little English and who only married him to get into the US and because he lied to her and made her think he was well to do.  Right from the start we're given missed messages about Pastor Jeff.

I remember his greedy wife but not the part about him lying to her to get her to marry him. Wasn't she only on one episode? One of the reasons I like the character of Pastor Jeff is that he's not written as black/white. He has his quirks and flaws, but he always seems to be trying to do the right thing, and is generally portrayed as a good person. And he's way, way more patient with Sheldon than I could ever be.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 10/26/2018 at 12:27 PM, CherryAmes said:

Mary's reaction to the school drama teacher was so real to the times too.  I really appreciated that.  Given Mary being Mary and given this was the 80s it did not surprise me at all that she would not be able to stand up to him and instead went home and made that tuna casserole.  It must be a tough balancing act to write shows set in an earlier time and not have the characters act too much the way you'd expect someone to react in 2018!  It would have been satisfying to have Mary tell him to go to heck but it wouldn't have been all that likely to have happened.

I think it has to do more with Mary being Mary and not it being 1980.  There weren't cavemen walking around bopping us in the head if we had an opinion.  Or maybe 80's me has to do with me being me.  

[eel2178]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:08 PM, LadyKenobi said:

One of my least favorite episodes, mostly because so much of it was off. Missy's Cyndi Lauper poster next to an NKOTB one has bothered me for a year and a half, and they just doubled down on it. It was a cute outfit, but there is no way on this planet that a little girl as socially adept as Missy is dressing as Cyndi Lauper in 1989. By then she was ouuuuuuuttttt. It was all Milli Vanilli, Paula Abdul, and Janet Jackson. And the girls in the background have more accurate late 80's hair than any of the leads. It just bothers me when showrunners are lazy about details like this, like setting a show in 1962, which was basically an extension of the 50s, and showing people wandering around in love beads and hippie hair (which were more very early 70s than anything.) 

Also, Georgie stating, "happy wife, happy life," was out of place. That expression didn't exist before the 21st century.

[CherryAmes]

15 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

I remember his greedy wife but not the part about him lying to her to get her to marry him. Wasn't she only on one episode? One of the reasons I like the character of Pastor Jeff is that he's not written as black/white. He has his quirks and flaws, but he always seems to be trying to do the right thing, and is generally portrayed as a good person. And he's way, way more patient with Sheldon than I could ever be.

I agree he's been portrayed mostly in a positive light but in the episode where Mary gets the job with the church he does tell Mary that he lied to Selena before they got married:

Mary: Why don't you just talk to her? Explain your financial situation? ... Oh, we're closing the door now, okay.

Pastor Jeff: That's not so easy.

Mary: Because of the language barrier?

Pastor Jeff: That, and I implied, when we were dating, that I was well-to-do.

Mary: Oh, Pastor Jeff, why would you do that?

Pastor Jeff: You saw her.

Edited October 29, 2018 by CherryAmes

[SpiritSong]

20 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

I agree he's been portrayed mostly in a positive light but in the episode where Mary gets the job with the church he does tell Mary that he lied to Selena before they got married:

Mary: Why don't you just talk to her? Explain your financial situation? ... Oh, we're closing the door now, okay.

Pastor Jeff: That's not so easy.

Mary: Because of the language barrier?

Pastor Jeff: That, and I implied, when we were dating, that I was well-to-do.

Mary: Oh, Pastor Jeff, why would you do that?

Pastor Jeff: You saw her.

I didn't mean to imply that I didn't believe you. I just have a terrible memory. That said, him getting carried away with lust fits in with him being portrayed as a man with flaws, which is one reason why I like the character. But everything about him in this episode just felt off to me. Including that first version of a hell house (something I had never heard of before) being so absolutely gory and violent. He's not usually shown as a fire and brimstone kind of preacher, so why would he go so overboard on that? And would Mary and other parents really have been okay with exposing their children to that?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/28/2018 at 9:47 AM, CherryAmes said:

Unless they're going to show us that he uses the money for his own personal benefit I don't see this.  One of the first times we ever meet Pastor Jeff we learn he has married an avaricious woman who speaks little English and who only married him to get into the US and because he lied to her and made her think he was well to do.  Right from the start we're given missed messages about Pastor Jeff.

He might need a wife in order to hold his job.  An unmarried pastor would arouse suspicion.  A mail order bride might fulfill both partners' requirements.