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S02:E02 Middle Ground

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As Shaun pushes back against Dr. Melendez in order to treat a gravely ill hospital janitor, Dr. Lim risks a lawsuit to repair a teenage girl’s ritual circumcision. Dr. Glassman exercises demanding oversight in choosing a doctor for his brain surgery.

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One of my favorite episodes ever, minus the horrible African accents of Mara's parents. Lim was amazing all episode long and I'm in love with her now lol. I kind of cringed when she lied about Mara giving consent, but her heart was in the right place. I don't know that I could have made that decision but it ended up being the right one. It was nice to see better versons of Andrews and Reznick today. I loved Shaun finally understanding lying for good.

I still miss Jared and I want Lea to go away. I wish Dr. Glassman the best.

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Agreed on Shaun lying for the family. And I felt for Claire when she was delivering the bad news to his family. I can't imagine how tough it would be to deliver that "We did everything we could" speech (same goes for when I hear about cops having to notify family members their loved one's been murdered or died in an accident or something). She handled that well, though, as did Shaun. I'm glad they worked together on this case, both because I like it when they interact and get to work together in general and also because I think she was the best person for Shaun to be around this episode, given all the stuff going on with him professionally and personally. 

The cases in general were both really interesting tonight. Everything with Paul was bittersweet and heartbreaking, and I liked everything with the young woman who was circumcised, too. I share Lim's feelings regarding doing that to girls, and I could also sympathize with the hospital not wanting to risk any potential problems and whatnot. Thank goodness things managed to work out all right, at least. I also liked the way Lim, Reznick, and Park worked together. 

As for Shaun and Lea, I do like that their reunion isn't simple and they're all immediately back to normal, 'cause yeah, I imagine it would be kinda awkward to have somebody just show back up in your life like that. But whatever happens with them going forward, I do think it'll be good for them to be open and honest with each other, and talk stuff out. I wonder where Lea will move to, then, if Shaun doesn't let her continue staying at his place. 

(I couldn't help seeing a smidge of Norman in Shaun when he was yelling at Lea at the end, though :p.)

So yeah. Good episode. 

Edited by Annber03
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1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

(I couldn't help seeing a smidge of Norman in Shaun when he was yelling at Lea at the end, though :p.)

 

I thought the same thing for a second! I was like "Better hope Mother doesn't show up, Lea" :) 

Shaun lying to the family really was probably for the best, even if it was heartbreaking. He was probably more or less right anyway, and if he didnt say it, that family would have probably had serious problems, even beyond losing their husband/father. Poor Claire, having to give such awful news. Claire and Shaun were a great pair, as always. This was a good person for him to have this plot with, as Claire has empathy as practically a superpower. It was another good moment for Shaun to understand more shades of grey, and how while being truthful is usually good, if it means nothing but bad things, it might be for the greater good. 

The plot with Lim was really interesting, and not something I think I have seen on many medical shows. You could tell how much poor Mara having the opportunity to experience positive sexual experiences meant to her, while also acknowledging that she got close to crossing a professional line when she was pushing Mara, and almost lied about her consent. The whole situation with the parents was disturbing (being connected with your culture is great, but maybe pass down some stories or recipes or something) but I dont blame the hospital for being nervous about lawsuits. Glad that it ended up working out. 

Can we get rid of Lea, and get Jared back, please?

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24 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Shaun lying to the family really was probably for the best, even if it was heartbreaking. He was probably more or less right anyway, and if he didnt say it, that family would have probably had serious problems, even beyond losing their husband/father. 

Agreed. And as painful as it was to listen to the family blaming each other, I get why they lashed out like that. Here they thought they were getting their father and husband back and then wham, all of a sudden, he's gone. Of course that's going to make you react in anger. I think everyone who's lost a loved one has felt that kind of anger, and has even perhaps done the blame game at some point as well, either with their family or themselves. 

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Are we supposed to be rooting for Shaun and Lea? Because -- no.

I thought it was a good 'twist' that one of the cases was a hospital co-worker.

And I know that there wouldn't have a plot otherwise, but it did cross my mind that they could have avoided the whole issue of operating on a minor against the parents' wishes if they'd told the girl to wait until she was 18.

Yeah, it is a little weird that Glassman is off away from most of the cast.

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Anytime lying was brought up in this episode, I kept waiting for David Shore to reveal is secret crossover, with Dr. House popping out of nowhere and yell "Everyone lies!" to Shaun.  Why, yes, I occasionally like to imagine how House and Shaun would interact with one another!

The circumcision plot was disturbing and I'm glad the girl is now better, but hopefully Lim knows when to pick and choose her battles, and doesn't cross the line all of the time.  At least Andrews did pitch in when he could and Park and even Reznick were helpful as well.

I continue to like how Melendez is actually being a good mentor now and while he still doesn't treat Shaun with kid gloves, he is legitimately trying to make him a better doctor.

While I think Paige Spara is certainly a likable and charismatic actress, I do worry that Lea is going to feel like a drag.  I'm not sure if I'm suppose to feel that Shaun is being childish or immature with his outburst, but I can understand why he still feels hurt, and I'm not getting the sense that Lea has even tried to talk to him about it, but is just acting like everything is normal again.  Hopefully Claire will continue to support and be a good friend for him, since I'm sure this going to continue to mess with him.

I didn't recognize the surgeon Glassman ended up using.  Did they say who it was?

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32 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Anytime lying was brought up in this episode, I kept waiting for David Shore to reveal is secret crossover, with Dr. House popping out of nowhere and yell "Everyone lies!" to Shaun.  Why, yes, I occasionally like to imagine how House and Shaun would interact with one another!

The circumcision plot was disturbing and I'm glad the girl is now better, but hopefully Lim knows when to pick and choose her battles, and doesn't cross the line all of the time.  At least Andrews did pitch in when he could and Park and even Reznick were helpful as well.

I continue to like how Melendez is actually being a good mentor now and while he still doesn't treat Shaun with kid gloves, he is legitimately trying to make him a better doctor.

While I think Paige Spara is certainly a likable and charismatic actress, I do worry that Lea is going to feel like a drag.  I'm not sure if I'm suppose to feel that Shaun is being childish or immature with his outburst, but I can understand why he still feels hurt, and I'm not getting the sense that Lea has even tried to talk to him about it, but is just acting like everything is normal again.  Hopefully Claire will continue to support and be a good friend for him, since I'm sure this going to continue to mess with him.

I didn't recognize the surgeon Glassman ended up using.  Did they say who it was?

I believe they did not say who he ended up using - but I assumed it was the one he disliked/disliked him.

I think with Lea, we are supposed to not hate either - Shaun has a history of abandonment and abuse in his childhood - he isn't used to someone just coming back after leaving (as far as I recall, he has not seen his parents since the night him and his brother ran away, and then his brother died and obviously did not return from that). It's something he needs therapy for, and something Lea needs to understand (Though she probably does not know about his abusive upbringing in detail)

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1 hour ago, Trini said:

I thought it was a good 'twist' that one of the cases was a hospital co-worker.

After his death, I started thinking about how sudden it all was-one day he's washing windows and doing his job like normal, all seems well, and the next, boom, he's gone. Shaun already knows what that kind of sudden loss is like, as that's how it was with his brother. Yet now here he is watching Glassman deal with something that could potentially kill him at a much slower rate. I think that contrast, and the similarity of the sudden nature of Paul and Steve's deaths, could be an interesting thing for Shaun to comment on and incorporate into how he handles other cases, as well as everything with Glassman, going forward. 

37 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I didn't recognize the surgeon Glassman ended up using.  Did they say who it was?

According to the TV Line recap, she's Dr. Ko, and she worked on the case of the conjoined twins last season. 

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I liked this ep better than the season opener.

Shaun and Claire's case was my favorite of two.  Of course poor Claire gets a patient who dies and she has to deliver the news to the grieving family.  But I love the triumvirate of Melendez, Claire and Shaun.  There is a lot of cast chemistry between those three and Melendez has to be one of the better character redemption arcs in recent history. 

And yes, Shaun realizing the value of a helpful lie in the end was great.  I like that it was something he struggled with all last season and finally deployed it here so effectively.

I really enjoy Lim as a cast addition (even as I lament Jared being gone).

I see they dialed down Resnick's bitch factor.  Good.  It works.  I like her being prickly and cold, and you can be those things without being mean and witchy.

Someone needs to remind Park he's a doctor here not a cop.  In his role as a doctor his directive to is put patient care and advocacy first.  His background as a cop can be used to inform care, but it shouldn't impede it.

Still don't care about Lea.

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I did like Lea last season, but this episode didn't paint her in a good light in any way. Of course Shaun is still upset over her leaving. I think Freddie Highmore did a great job at displaying all of Shaun's conflicting emotions, with anger being at the forefront. It was nice for him to be honest with her at the end, so I'm intrigued to see where that leaves the two in future episodes. The one thing I liked about Lea was that she treated Shaun like a normal human being. However, now there are more people treating Shaun normally so Lea's purpose isn't there anymore. 

Claire and Shaun are my favourites of the show, and they work surprisingly well together. I think they balance each other out. Shaun's assertive in his own way, something that Claire needs to learn on her own, and Claire's empathetic, something that Shaun needs more practice with. So I think the two are excellent partners in crime since they have different strengths. 

I liked their case this week as well. Having Shaun learn more about empathy and the distinction in lies is something important for him to learn. Plus, he took the lesson in stride. We saw a lot of emotion from Shaun in this episode, and for good reason. It is good to see him growing and changing. 

I was definitely horrified at the case Lim took on. I can see why she did what she did, but there must be repercussions for her actions coming up, right? No way is this story just simply over, right? 

Yeah, this is the first episode I liked Reznick....at all. Whatever they did, keep doing it, show. I don't need bitchy destructive Reznick. Maybe she just needs to stay away from Claire. 

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I'm always irritated when medical dramas won't actually follow medical procedures when there is really no reason. For brain surgery they don't put you under. They need you awake and alert to know when they cut into something they really shouldn't. Also the head is fixated for obvious reasons. So the last scene was just bizar to me.

 

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

I think with Lea, we are supposed to not hate either - Shaun has a history of abandonment and abuse in his childhood - he isn't used to someone just coming back after leaving (as far as I recall, he has not seen his parents since the night him and his brother ran away, and then his brother died and obviously did not return from that). It's something he needs therapy for, and something Lea needs to understand (Though she probably does not know about his abusive upbringing in detail)

I don't think you have to have a history of abandonment to have the same feelings Shaun had. They seem perfectly natural. Of course a neurotypical person would handle and exxpress these feelings differently, but missing somebody and fearing they might leave you again, since they've already done it before, is just human.

Edited by Miles
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I have so many issues with the Shaun/Lea plot. As a disclaimer for my possible overinvestment, I have a disability as well – not autism, but cerebral palsy. Their dynamic cuts way to close too the bone for me personally. I hate the idea that disabled people should automatically worship any able person that gives them the time of day because they must automatically be inherently kind or generous at their core for going out of their way to treat us like humans, when it's usually just them treating us like community service or exploiting our emotions for their own personal gain. Case in point, Lea just reappears without warning after months and like we predicted, starts squatting in Shaun's apartment immediately, probably because she knew that he's too nice to say no and that he's been starved of affection and back to his hermit lifestyle since she left. No explanation, just back to coy and cutesy flirting like nothing happened because she wants something from him.

Then, Claire absolutely oversteps her boundaries by telling Shaun how he should treat Lea and argues that she doesn't deserve his coldness because she's been "nothing but nice to him." I can't tell you how much I despise this argument. It never seems to matter how manipulative or self-motivated able people are or what they've done – they've been nice at times! Beggars can't be choosers! Apparently disabled people's feelings don't matter and they should come running whenever the able person snaps their fingers. Claire could not have been any more patronizing in that scene and it drove me up the wall to watch her scold Shaun like a toddler. Shaun is not a child. You are not his mother. He is an adult capable of making his own decisions regarding relationships.

And the cherry on top of the turd sundae - the reveal in the teaser for next week that Shaun is actually being the unreasonable jerk who needs a stern talking to from blameless Saint Lea! Because "innocent looking disabled person is actually an asshole" isn't a totally overdone ableist trope. Notice that we are only in the wrong or acting irrationally when we try to hold able people accountable for their actions or dare to have negative emotions towards them. Putting my personal feelings aside, just from a narrative perspective, why exactly are we supposed to feel bad for Lea in this scenario? Because Shaun didn't disrupt his entire life and fawn all over her when she re-materialized out of the ether looking for a rent-free place to live? Because he isn't spending his every waking moment sitting in the apartment waiting for her to acknowledge him? Last I checked, she's been crashing at his place every night with no questions asked, but that's apparently not enough because his tongue isn't halfway up her asshole in gratitude for her return.

I hate this plot and I hate Lea even more. I have a bad feeling she's going to gaslight Shaun into apologizing to her and probably take his virginity to solidify her hold on him. And she will still somehow find a way to make herself the victim when their relationship deteriorates ("I know you have autism but that doesn't justify you not communicating with me!!!" UGH). She can't leave soon enough. 

Edited by SnarkEnthusiast
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26 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Then, Claire absolutely oversteps her boundaries by telling Shaun how he should treat Lea and argues that she doesn't deserve his coldness because she's been "nothing but nice to him." I can't tell you how much I despise this argument. It never seems to matter how manipulative or self-motivated able people are or what they've done – they've been nice at times! Beggars can't be choosers! Apparently disabled people's feelings don't matter and they should come running whenever the able person snaps their fingers. Claire could not have been any more patronizing in that scene and it drove me up the wall to watch her scold Shaun like a toddler. Shaun is not a child. You are not his mother. He is an adult capable of making his own decisions regarding relationships.

It's probably just me trying to forget that she was ever around, but I honestly can't remember the emotional fallout around Lea leaving and how much Claire knows about it or Lea herself. I do remember thinking when she said that line - 'wait, how much does she even know about her?' So it's hard for me to judge how fair she's being. Although the line was probably there just so they could have Shaun react.

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22 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I have so many issues with the Shaun/Lea plot. As a disclaimer for my possible overinvestment, I have a disability as well – not autism, but cerebral palsy. Their dynamic cuts way to close to the bone for me personally. I hate the idea that disabled people should automatically worship any able person that gives them the time of day because they must automatically be inherently kind or generous at their core for going out of their way to treat us like humans, when it's usually just them treating us like community service or exploiting our emotions for their own personal gain. Case in point, Lea just reappears without warning after months and like we predicted, starts squatting in Shaun's apartment immediately, probably because she knew that he's too nice to say no and that he's been starved of affection and back to his hermit lifestyle since she left. No explanation, just back to coy and cutesy flirting like nothing happened because she wants something from him.

Then, Claire absolutely oversteps her boundaries by telling Shaun how he should treat Lea and argues that she doesn't deserve his coldness because she's been "nothing but nice to him." I can't tell you how much I despise this argument. It never seems to matter how manipulative or self-motivated able people are or what they've done – they've been nice at times! Beggars can't be choosers! Apparently disabled people's feelings don't matter and they should come running whenever the able person snaps their fingers. Claire could not have been any more patronizing in that scene and it drove me up the wall to watch her scold Shaun like a toddler. Shaun is not a child. You are not his mother. He is an adult capable of making his own decisions regarding relationships.

I hate this plot and I hate Lea even more. I have a bad feeling she's going to gaslight Shaun into apologizing to her and probably take his virginity to solidify her hold on him. And she will still somehow find a way to make herself the victim when their relationship deteriorates ("I know you have autism but that doesn't justify you not communicating with me!!!" UGH). She can't leave soon enough. 

I sympathize with your frustration SnarkEnthusiast, and I hope that you haven't experienced this sort of attitude, but to be honest, I'm not sure that was the angle that they were going for here.  My son has autism and this is a road that I'm very familiar with and I knew exactly how this episode was going to end between Shaun and Lea, so kudos to the show for getting that right.

In Lea's mind, she left and now she's back.  She thinks that Shaun should be happy that she's back because they are friends and they can spend time together.  Claire thinks the very same thing - why are you ignoring Lea?  She's your friend.  You must be so happy that she's back!

Many people think that autistic people don't have feelings, but the truth is, their feelings are very intensified and they feel everything very strongly and have to refrain from being too demonstrative.  Because they feel so intensely, they often do not want to get involved in a romantic relationship at all, because if it ends, it would just destroy them.  Shaun wants Lea gone because he cannot deal with her coming and going.  Lea and Claire don't understand this because for them, relationships are tough yeah, but when they end, you get over it and be friends, and whatever.  Not for autistic people.  It's all or nothing.

So, I think (hope) that is what they will explore in future episodes.

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I sincerely hope this drama with Lea doesn’t drag out too long.  I’m already bored with it.   I know the actress is now billed as a regular, so she isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. God forbid she becomes a love interest.  Just No!  I prefer that the story’s focus is primarily at the hospital and explores the relationships between the staff as well as the cases of the week. 

However, I am interested in seeing where things go with Shaun and Glassman.  Their dynamic is shifting in that Glassman, instead of being the caretaker, seems to be distancing himself and Shaun is the one having to reach out and assume that role.  It is a good growth arc for the character. 

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So... does Shaun's douchey neighbor still have his TV?

 

What are the odds that both this show and The Resident would do a Whipple on the same night! 

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6 minutes ago, Zoe said:

So... does Shaun's douchey neighbor still have his TV?

I suspect that we'll never hear about him again, but I would love an update.

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17 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Someone needs to remind Park he's a doctor here not a cop.  In his role as a doctor his directive to is put patient care and advocacy first.  His background as a cop can be used to inform care, but it shouldn't impede it.

Yes! Why aren't any of the attendings on him for his attitude? I can't remember what was said to him during his evaluation in last week's episode,  but all the others are working on the feedback they got, and I don't see Park even making an effort to improve.

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

The one thing I liked about Lea was that she treated Shaun like a normal human being. However, now there are more people treating Shaun normally so Lea's purpose isn't there anymore. 

I think Lea was always kind of caretakery with Shaun, like she was getting off on being his mentor. She never really treated him like an equal. She never sought his counsel, she always acted like she was indulging him. Contrast Jared last week, who respected Shaun, let Shaun take the lead sometimes, and defended him as a peer, without any condescension.

12 hours ago, Miles said:

I'm always irritated when medical dramas won't actually follow medical procedures when there is really no reason. For brain surgery they don't put you under. They need you awake and alert to know when they cut into something they really shouldn't. Also the head is fixated for obvious reasons. So the last scene was just bizar to me.

Thank you! I was so confused by that scene. It's like last week when they are dithering about what to do with the heart transplant, as though there wasn't a deadline for viability, or a waiting list of others waiting for the organ, nor any previous vetting of the patient's condition and decisions about what procedure would be needed. They clearly KNOW how transplants work, because it was a plot of a previous episode when they had a liver donor. And they have to know how brain surgery works, as well. So why are they this lazy about it?

SnarkEnthusiast I am with you 100% on your analysis of how insulting it is how most people think about relationships with PWD, and how condescendingly they are treating Shaun's emotional life, and how both Lea and Claire were grossly out of line this week.

 

3 hours ago, AEMom said:

Shaun wants Lea gone because he cannot deal with her coming and going.  Lea and Claire don't understand this because for them, relationships are tough yeah, but when they end, you get over it and be friends, and whatever. 

Maybe some people would be all fine with the coming and going, but I think PLENTY of neurotypicals would have trouble with someone just showing up and expecting to move in without calling first and asking, especially after what in my view was a clear pull the rug out from under you kind of leaving, which legitimately broke Shaun's heart.

Lea knew how vulnerable Shaun was, and she toyed with him and then dumped him without letting him in on her plans to leave until after. She didn't share with him what she was thinking about doing, she just decided and then manipulated him for her own enjoyment. She didn't break the news and then tell him she wanted to have a special day together before she left. She just pressured him into taking the day, and then notified him afterward that it was good bye and she'd known that all along. That isn't how a friend behaves with a friend, and it wasn't how someone who was genuinely courting you would behave and expect to be welcomed back with open arms afterwards.

I'm disgusted by the implication that Shaun is being irrational here. He's very upset, but why wouldn't he be? I don't think it's because of autism. I think it's because he's being jerked around and taken advantage of.

I think the need to do some follow up about the skeevy neighbor because it's another example of Shaun being generous and someone taking advantage of his trust and welcome and then using him and ripping him off and gaslighting him into feeling like it's his own fault "because of autism" instead of it being the fault of the person who's actually doing something wrong, and in teh case of the neighbor something actually criminal.

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13 hours ago, Miles said:

I'm always irritated when medical dramas won't actually follow medical procedures when there is really no reason. For brain surgery they don't put you under. They need you awake and alert to know when they cut into something they really shouldn't. Also the head is fixated for obvious reasons. So the last scene was just bizar to me.

 

I don't think you have to have a history of abandonment to have the same feelings Shaun had. They seem perfectly natural. Of course a neurotypical person would handle and exxpress these feelings differently, but missing somebody and fearing they might leave you again, since they've already done it before, is just human.

Yes, but with Shaun, they are probably amplified.

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My question about Lea is, why is she back? Did I miss her explaining what happened in Hershey? It seemed as though she just showed up.

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5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Lea knew how vulnerable Shaun was, and she toyed with him and then dumped him without letting him in on her plans to leave until after. She didn't share with him what she was thinking about doing, she just decided and then manipulated him for her own enjoyment. She didn't break the news and then tell him she wanted to have a special day together before she left. She just pressured him into taking the day, and then notified him afterward that it was good bye and she'd known that all along. That isn't how a friend behaves with a friend, and it wasn't how someone who was genuinely courting you would behave and expect to be welcomed back with open arms afterwards.

I had completely forgotten how she left. Yeah, that was a massive dick move she pulled there, which makes just showing up on his doorstep an even dickier move. I think I probably would have told her to fuck off right then and there.

 

9 hours ago, AEMom said:

Many people think that autistic people don't have feelings, but the truth is, their feelings are very intensified and they feel everything very strongly and have to refrain from being too demonstrative.  Because they feel so intensely, they often do not want to get involved in a romantic relationship at all, because if it ends, it would just destroy them.  Shaun wants Lea gone because he cannot deal with her coming and going.  Lea and Claire don't understand this because for them, relationships are tough yeah, but when they end, you get over it and be friends, and whatever.  Not for autistic people.  It's all or nothing.

I have ADHD. Apperently, a very common symptom of ADHD is that you feel emotions, especially rejection, much deeper and more strongly than neurotypical people. For some reason nobody tells you about this symptom. It's always the inattentiveness and inability to focus that everybody, well, focuses on. So I didn't find out that was even a thing until a few months ago and I'm in my 30s. But boy did it make a lot of things in my life make so much more sense (in hindisght it was one of the biggest problems in my life) and now I know why I often got a blank stare of  "I don't understand" back from therapists. Neurotypical people simply can't understand why you reacted with such intense feeling to a situation that to them seems banale and if they don't specialise in ADHD, even therapists seem to have no clue this is a symptom.

Now that I know where these feelings are coming from and that most other people with ADHD have them too, I can actually manage them a lot better.

All that is to say, I know what it's like to have intensified feelings and it sucks. I suspect it might be even more intense for people with autism.

It's funny, in some ways you'd think autism and ADHD are the exact opposite, but there is quite some overlaping of symptoms. My best friend is autistic and I usually don't have problems understanding what she's saying, nor does she understanding what I'm saying (unless I try to tell a joke) and we usually have a good amount of problems being understood by other people.

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16 minutes ago, Miles said:

It's funny, in some ways you'd think autism and ADHD are the exact opposite, but there is quite some overlaping of symptoms. My best friend is autistic and I usually don't have problems understanding what she's saying, nor does she understanding what I'm saying (unless I try to tell a joke) and we usually have a good amount of problems being understood by other people.

You are absolutely right about the overlapping symptoms!  I had no idea about the emotions, that was interesting to learn - thank you. 

Many people with autism also have ADHD which makes their lives even more interesting.  :-(

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe some people would be all fine with the coming and going, but I think PLENTY of neurotypicals would have trouble with someone just showing up and expecting to move in without calling first and asking, especially after what in my view was a clear pull the rug out from under you kind of leaving, which legitimately broke Shaun's heart.

Lea knew how vulnerable Shaun was, and she toyed with him and then dumped him without letting him in on her plans to leave until after. She didn't share with him what she was thinking about doing, she just decided and then manipulated him for her own enjoyment. She didn't break the news and then tell him she wanted to have a special day together before she left. She just pressured him into taking the day, and then notified him afterward that it was good bye and she'd known that all along. That isn't how a friend behaves with a friend, and it wasn't how someone who was genuinely courting you would behave and expect to be welcomed back with open arms afterwards.

It has been my experience that most people really don't understand how autistic people process information.  Let's not forget that Lea and Shaun never progressed past a platonic stage.  In Lea's mind, she probably thinks that Shaun has a crush on her so it's no big deal.  Same thought for Claire.  But for Shaun those feelings are magnified a great deal.  In his mind, she is the one for him, the only one for him, and they should be together forever.  In Lea and Claire's minds, nothing has happened other than a crush.  In Shaun's mind, he's already gotten married and divorced and is DONE (for a lack of a better explanation).

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12 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Then, Claire absolutely oversteps her boundaries by telling Shaun how he should treat Lea and argues that she doesn't deserve his coldness because she's been "nothing but nice to him."

 

11 hours ago, Trini said:

It's probably just me trying to forget that she was ever around, but I honestly can't remember the emotional fallout around Lea leaving and how much Claire knows about it or Lea herself. I do remember thinking when she said that line - 'wait, how much does she even know about her?' So it's hard for me to judge how fair she's being. Although the line was probably there just so they could have Shaun react.

Yeah, that line took me aback because I was like:  wait a minute.... how much does Claire even know Lea or about Lea to even defend her to Shaun.  I admit my dislike of Lea may have made me block out some of her scenes from last season, so I might not be remembering something, but I didn't get the impression that Claire knew enough about Lea's interactions with Shaun to make such a statement,

And then it pissed me off.  Not in the same way as it did for @SnarkEnthusiast  but because to me it came off as blatant cheerleading for a character for reasons to manipulate audience reaction.  Not only does Lea not deserve that consideration, imo, but it also does a disservice to Claire because it doesn't make sense for her character to say it.

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On 10/1/2018 at 11:26 PM, doLLish said:

One of my favorite episodes ever, minus the horrible African accents of Mara's parents.

I know it's acting, and I like Alimi Ballard, but I've watched him in Numb3rs and a few other things.  Since Mara's parents were supposed to be first-generation Kenyan, they probably could have picked someone else to play her father.  It was just too obvious that Alimi was acting.

I don't know how I feel about Lim.  While her motives were pure, a part of me felt like, just as Mara's grandmother had made a decision for Mara, so had Lim.  Lim's decision for Mara was more culturally acceptable, but I thought that the writing at the end sort of gave Lim a pass.  Mara ended up agreeing with the decision that Lim made, but that's different from Mara making the decision herself.  Talking to Lim away from her parents was supposed to give Mara the opportunity to make her own decision----whatever it might turn out to be.  However, in the end, another person other than Mara made a choice for Mara.

I like Shaun and Lea as a pairing, but I thought Shaun was entirely right to share how he felt at the end of the episode.  That was a huge step for him.

Edited by Ohmo
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On 10/2/2018 at 2:14 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I continue to like how Melendez is actually being a good mentor now and while he still doesn't treat Shaun with kid gloves, he is legitimately trying to make him a better doctor.

I like that Melendez deals with Shaun's autism as a reality.  The whole "walk with me" exchange was awesome, but I also liked how Melendez told Claire to break the news to the family.  Yes, Shaun will have to learn how to do that, but not all situations are learning opportunities.  Melendez was considering a family's impending grief first, and Shaun was secondary.

ETA

Quote

Someone needs to remind Park he's a doctor here not a cop.  In his role as a doctor his directive to is put patient care and advocacy first.  His background as a cop can be used to inform care, but it shouldn't impede it.

I've not always been a fan of Park, but I don't think he was impeding care.  The reality was that Mara wasn't 18.  He wasn't making that up.  The details of the ID proved to him that the ID was fake.  Legally, Mara was a minor who could not consent to the procedure that she was asking for.  Lim was putting the hospital in legal jeopardy.  Park simply figured out that's what Lim was doing.

ETA 2:

Quote

In Lea and Claire's minds, nothing has happened other than a crush.  In Shaun's mind, he's already gotten married and divorced and is DONE (for a lack of a better explanation).

I don't get that sense from Shaun at all.   I do think he cares for Lea, and she may be the first women for whom he's had a strong "relationship/romantic" feeling, but I don't think his feelings are amplified to the level that you're describing.

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53 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

don't know how I feel about Lim.  While her motives were pure, a part of me felt like, just as Mara's grandmother had made a decision for Mara, so had Lim.  Lim's decision for Mara was more culturally acceptable, but I thought that the writing at the end sort of gave Lim a pass.  Mara ended up agreeing with the decision that Lim made, but that's different from Mara making the decision herself.  Talking to Lim away from her parents was supposed to give Mara the opportunity to make her own decision----whatever it might turn out to be.  However, in the end, another person other than Mara made a choice for Mara.

I agree.

Plus, her equating having a functioning clitoris, (which may or may not give her sexual pleasure after everything she’s been through) to experiencing “love” made me throw up in my mouth a little... so yeah that storyline left a bad taste in my mouth.

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1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

The whole "walk with me" exchange was awesome.

Your mention of that scene reminds me-seriously, kudos to these guys for managing to learn and rattle off all this medical jargon the way they do. When Melendez was telling Shaun to order all that stuff for Paul that involved a whole bunch of letters and abbreviations and that, I was sitting here like, "o.O...that's easy for you to say." :p. 

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On 10/2/2018 at 11:31 PM, Fable said:

I sincerely hope this drama with Lea doesn’t drag out too long.  I’m already bored with it.   I know the actress is now billed as a regular, so she isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. God forbid she becomes a love interest.  Just No!  I prefer that the story’s focus is primarily at the hospital and explores the relationships between the staff as well as the cases of the week. 

Oh God, if she is a regular we will never get rid of her. Nothing against the actress, but her character is the absolute worst. The only way I would tolerate her as a love interest is in a Claire/Shaun/Lea triangle at the end of the season where Claire wins and Lea goes away forever. Wishful thinking, I know.

22 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think Lea was always kind of caretakery with Shaun, like she was getting off on being his mentor. She never really treated him like an equal. She never sought his counsel, she always acted like she was indulging him. Contrast Jared last week, who respected Shaun, let Shaun take the lead sometimes, and defended him as a peer, without any condescension.

SnarkEnthusiast I am with you 100% on your analysis of how insulting it is how most people think about relationships with PWD, and how condescendingly they are treating Shaun's emotional life, and how both Lea and Claire were grossly out of line this week.

Maybe some people would be all fine with the coming and going, but I think PLENTY of neurotypicals would have trouble with someone just showing up and expecting to move in without calling first and asking, especially after what in my view was a clear pull the rug out from under you kind of leaving, which legitimately broke Shaun's heart.

Lea knew how vulnerable Shaun was, and she toyed with him and then dumped him without letting him in on her plans to leave until after. She didn't share with him what she was thinking about doing, she just decided and then manipulated him for her own enjoyment. She didn't break the news and then tell him she wanted to have a special day together before she left. She just pressured him into taking the day, and then notified him afterward that it was good bye and she'd known that all along. That isn't how a friend behaves with a friend, and it wasn't how someone who was genuinely courting you would behave and expect to be welcomed back with open arms afterwards.

I'm disgusted by the implication that Shaun is being irrational here. He's very upset, but why wouldn't he be? I don't think it's because of autism. I think it's because he's being jerked around and taken advantage of.

Thank you for being so articulate and eloquently stating my points in a way that I was too annoyed to do at the time lol. I agree with your entire post but especially the bolded, which is why I've never really been able to get behind Shaun/Lea. She doesn't act like she's attracted to him, he's just a curiosity for her to play with whenever she gets bored. When you actually view someone as a potential romantic partner, you treat them as a peer, not as some kid you're letting sneak their hand into the proverbial cookie jar (...bad metaphor here). Their dynamic on that road trip felt like a divorced alcoholic mom trying to spoil her son before she goes on her next bender. Infantilizing your partner isn't sexy!! That's why I think that Claire would be the best suitable endgame for him because she's getting to know him in a professional setting and she does actually regard Shaun as her peer. 

15 hours ago, suebee12 said:

My question about Lea is, why is she back? Did I miss her explaining what happened in Hershey? It seemed as though she just showed up.

I'm thinking the big Hershey reveal was intentionally saved for next week. I'm sure it will be something sad or traumatic to completely justify her unannounced couch surfing and make Shaun look like as much of a petty asshole as possible.

Edited by SnarkEnthusiast
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17 hours ago, Miles said:

I had completely forgotten how she left. Yeah, that was a massive dick move she pulled there, which makes just showing up on his doorstep an even dickier move. I think I probably would have told her to fuck off right then and there.

 

I have ADHD. Apperently, a very common symptom of ADHD is that you feel emotions, especially rejection, much deeper and more strongly than neurotypical people. For some reason nobody tells you about this symptom. It's always the inattentiveness and inability to focus that everybody, well, focuses on. So I didn't find out that was even a thing until a few months ago and I'm in my 30s. But boy did it make a lot of things in my life make so much more sense (in hindisght it was one of the biggest problems in my life) and now I know why I often got a blank stare of  "I don't understand" back from therapists. Neurotypical people simply can't understand why you reacted with such intense feeling to a situation that to them seems banale and if they don't specialise in ADHD, even therapists seem to have no clue this is a symptom.

Now that I know where these feelings are coming from and that most other people with ADHD have them too, I can actually manage them a lot better.

All that is to say, I know what it's like to have intensified feelings and it sucks. I suspect it might be even more intense for people with autism.

It's funny, in some ways you'd think autism and ADHD are the exact opposite, but there is quite some overlaping of symptoms. My best friend is autistic and I usually don't have problems understanding what she's saying, nor does she understanding what I'm saying (unless I try to tell a joke) and we usually have a good amount of problems being understood by other people.

Yuuup. ADHD is a weird one, it occurs with a whole slew of disabilities

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The promo for next week's show shows Shaun's belief that Lea is only feeling sorry for him.  He talks about not wanting a relationship.  He is lying to himself.  I believe he doesn't know what he wants or how he feels - except one thing.  He doesn't want to be hurt again.  And who can blame him after going through so much pain?  I think the whole set up, like the skeevy Kenny, is to explore that very idea that some people think that being nice to a disabled person is a free pass and/or is for want of a better phrase "virtue signalling".  Shaun knows that happens and apparently is trying to bury his feelings again which is unhealthy.  But David Shore who wrote 2x02 is never linear.  I mean this is the guy who invented Dr House.  I'm betting there is a great back story and that actually Lea does love Shaun.  She is just human and impetuous.  She shouldn't have turned up that way.  That was stupid.  But she did.  Now I wonder what happened to bring her back?

I recently went to the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis.  There was a picture of activist Hill Harper (aka Dr Andrews) there and it got me thinking about autistic rights.  I bought a fridge magnet for my son who is autistic: "I AM a man".  Shaun Murphy is not a child in adult's body.  He IS a man, not an avatar.  He isn't perfect either.  My son will grow into a man and I hope that he has healthy relationships with people who treat him like a person.  I think in the end Lea treated Shaun as a man when others were not and while she is not to everyone's tastes, she is actually a good match for him.  I was on twitter with Mark Rozeman who is a writer on the Good Doctor and also happens to be autistic himself hoping that his voice would always be there to make sure that Shaun was portrayed as a man, not just a list of symptoms (like that awful first series of Atypical).  He said no absolutely the writers' room were very aware of that.  So let's give David Shore some credit in creating imperfect characters.  Remember this was the same team who brilliantly nailed the Autism warrior parents in 1x5.  Let's see where this goes...

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17 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I've not always been a fan of Park, but I don't think he was impeding care.  The reality was that Mara wasn't 18.  He wasn't making that up.  The details of the ID proved to him that the ID was fake.  Legally, Mara was a minor who could not consent to the procedure that she was asking for.  Lim was putting the hospital in legal jeopardy.  Park simply figured out that's what Lim was doing.

 

Yeah, but a resident would never talk to an attending like that. He can make suggestions, but you don’t argue with an attending as if you’re peers. Even the blond resident never spoke that way to an attending. She acts like an asshole sometimes when spouting medical facts, but even that was more humble than the way Park talked to Lim. 

 

On 10/3/2018 at 2:15 AM, possibilities said:

Yes! Why aren't any of the attendings on him for his attitude? I can't remember what was said to him during his evaluation in last week's episode,  but all the others are working on the feedback they got, and I don't see Park even making an effort to improve.

Agreed

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Lea strikes me as the kind of girl who has been able to get away with a lot of bad behavior in life with her "Tee hee hee, look how adorable I am," attitude. Like, she's cast herself in the role of Manic Pixie Dream Girl and doesn't realize her life is not an indie movie. Shaun might be one of the first people she's encountered to call her on her bullshit. Which could end up being good for both of them, provided she takes it to heart.

ETA: For example, who the fuck just shows up at a hospital and expects a surgeon - especially one in training - to have time right at that moment to go to lunch with them? "I do not have time," would have been one of the kinder things I might have said to a person who did that. But I just get the feeling that she thinks a cloud of glitter follows her everywhere she goes.

Edited by auntiemel
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On 10/2/2018 at 9:51 PM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

And the cherry on top of the turd sundae - the reveal in the teaser for next week that Shaun is actually being the unreasonable jerk who needs a stern talking to from blameless Saint Lea! Because "innocent looking disabled person is actually an asshole" isn't a totally overdone ableist trope. Notice that we are only in the wrong or acting irrationally when we try to hold able people accountable for their actions or dare to have negative emotions towards them. Putting my personal feelings aside, just from a narrative perspective, why exactly are we supposed to feel bad for Lea in this scenario? Because Shaun didn't disrupt his entire life and fawn all over her when she re-materialized out of the ether looking for a rent-free place to live? Because he isn't spending his every waking moment sitting in the apartment waiting for her to acknowledge him? Last I checked, she's been crashing at his place every night with no questions asked, but that's apparently not enough because his tongue isn't halfway up her asshole in gratitude for her return.

 

Well, we don't know why she's yelling at him. It's a teaser for the next episode. It could be that Shaun's been treating her like crap for the entire next episode and she finally lets him have it, which in that scenario he would deserve. Just because he's disabled doesn't mean he gets to treat people any way he wants without being called out on it. I think the show actually does a great job of not doing "innocent looking disabled person is actually an asshole." They've made it that Shaun is flawed just like everybody else. Sometimes people do him wrong and they get called out on it and sometimes it's Shaun that's in the wrong. 

It's a little funny to me to see people acting like Lea's this horrible person who expected Shaun to drop everything when she arrived back in town when some of these same people seemed to have expected Lea to put her life on hold and not move away last year because it made Shaun sad. Lea and Shaun were not together when she made the decision to do something to improve her life and that would make her happy. She was under no obligation to factor Shaun into the decision or run it by him first. And while Shaun was sad, and obviously hurt, they parted on friendly terms. Shocking then that Lea assumed that Shaun might be happy to see her. And this idea that she's evil and selfish for crashing at his house rent-free. Do people not have friends that they allow to crash at their places from time to time? We don't know how the arrangement came about because the scene picked up long after Shaun decided to let her stay. And, while Shaun is neurotypical, and sometimes extra care and consideration need to be given to him he is still a grown adult who has the capability of saying no, as he amply demonstrated at the end of the episode. If he didn't want her to stay he should have said that. Instead, he lied and then spent most of the time avoiding the situation. It's infuriating behavior and reminds me of stuff my husband, who is not neurotypical, pulls sometimes where he gets mad about something, lets it fester and then suddenly unloads on me. It's like "dude, I'm not a mind reader if you have something to say speak."

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21 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

She doesn't act like she's attracted to him, he's just a curiosity for her to play with whenever she gets bored. When you actually view someone as a potential romantic partner, you treat them as a peer, not as some kid you're letting sneak their hand into the proverbial cookie jar (...bad metaphor here). Their dynamic on that road trip felt like a divorced alcoholic mom trying to spoil her son before she goes on her next bender. Infantilizing your partner isn't sexy!! That's why I think that Claire would be the best suitable endgame for him because she's getting to know him in a professional setting and she does actually regard Shaun as her peer. 

MMV, but I don't think Lea treats Shaun as a curiosity.  I don't see Lea as the threat to Shaun that others seem to, and in terms of romance, I think we're not seeing that yet but both are on that path.  I'll grant you that Lea's impulsive, but I think she wants to experience life and she wants Shaun to experience life with her.  I think someone like Lea, who doesn't see the world in black or white or in absolutes, would be the type of person who would take a chance and have a relationship with someone who has a disability.  Yeah, it might not work out, but that's true of any relationship, and there are plenty of people who wouldn't even think about dating Shaun at all.  He may get hurt, but that's true of anyone in a relationship.  It may be a short-term thing, but I see no evidence that Lea is setting out to intentionally hurt Shaun.  She may not get it right all the time, but I think she's trying to figure it out.  So is he, which is why I thought what he said to her at the end of the episode was so great.  They're both figuring it out, and things may not work out, but it's the experience of life.  I don't see the caretaker vibe either.

I'm not a fan of Shaun/Claire because I think the "workplace romance" thing is sooo overdone on TV.  I know plenty of people date or marry someone they met at work, but it seems like it's mostly what we see on TV.  Claire did that with Jared, and it didn't work out.  I'd also not like everything on the show to center on the hospital, and Shaun dating Lea expands that circle a bit.

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I agree....I am so tired of shows that have the leads that work together become romantic, just reinforcing that stereotype that people always cheat with co workers and that a man and woman cannot have a close friendship or good working relationship without being romantically involved.   I personally have never been interested in anyone that I've worked with. 

I just think it is lazy writing and in a lot of cases it is what has turned me off of a show.  I had to be one of few that did not want Benson and Stabler together and was upset when they implied that either they did have a thing, or that she at least had feelings for him.   So many shows go down this route and it is not necessary. 

I just don't like Lea as a character or the way that the actress portrays her and feel as if they could have explored other aspects of Shaun and his becoming more comfortable with communication and socialization before they went for a romantic interest.  I also think she was miscast. 

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4 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It's a little funny to me to see people acting like Lea's this horrible person who expected Shaun to drop everything when she arrived back in town when some of these same people seemed to have expected Lea to put her life on hold and not move away last year because it made Shaun sad. Lea and Shaun were not together when she made the decision to do something to improve her life and that would make her happy. She was under no obligation to factor Shaun into the decision or run it by him first. And while Shaun was sad, and obviously hurt, they parted on friendly terms.

 

And, while Shaun is neurotypical,

The problem with Lea coming back is she truly has no idea just how incredibly hard it was for him to deal with her leaving.  It probably took everything he had to deal with that. For her to come back and not know if she's staying and for how long she's staying is just too much for him to process. For him it would have been far better if she never returned.  WE see that, and because Lea has no experience with autistic people, she doesn't realize that. But, that's really not her fault.

Shaun is autistic, therefore he is not neuro-typical.  Neuro-typical people are those who do not register on the autism scale.

31 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I agree....I am so tired of shows that have the leads that work together become romantic, just reinforcing that stereotype that people always cheat with co workers and that a man and woman cannot have a close friendship or good working relationship without being romantically involved.

Agreed. That is the number one reason that I love the show Elementary. 

I hope they never put Shaun together with anyone at the hospital. 

Edited by AEMom · Reason: Typo
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I don't mind Lea as a character in general, and I like the friendship she forged with Shaun and get why they'd be attracted to each other. I just don't know if I can see a long-term romantic thing between them. Whatever happens between them going forward, though, like stated before, I do think it'd be good for them to talk things out and sort out their feelings and such first. I can sympathize with both of them regarding the awkwardness of her return-everyone here has made valid points regarding both their feelings and reactions to everything.  

As for Shaun/Claire, add me to the list of those who like that pairing :). I do get people's concerns about co-workers getting together, though, and I do love their friendship as well. Be it platonic or romantic, as long as I get to see them interacting, I'm good. 

(I will agree, though, that Lea just showing up at the hospital wanting to talk to Shaun was kind of an odd thing to do. Even if he wasn't mad at her and would've liked to spend time with her, he's still gonna be kinda busy!)

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Please tell me when I'm going to stop missing Jared. There were a couple of interactions that Shaun had with Claire that I couldn't help but think would be so much better if they were with Jared

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I was completely annoyed with Lea this episode barging back into Shaun’s life the way she did. That would be hard enough for a neurotypical, let alone someone on the spectrum. I was also a bit annoyed with Claire’s response to Shaun over the matter. 

Good for Shaun for trying to learn more social interactions, but it’ll be challenging for him. I’m on the spectrum myself and have messed up so many interactions. 46 years later I’ve figured a lot out but still cannot lie easily. It’s just not intuitive to me. 

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16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

As for Shaun/Claire, add me to the list of those who like that pairing :). I do get people's concerns about co-workers getting together, though, and I do love their friendship as well. Be it platonic or romantic, as long as I get to see them interacting, I'm good. 

I'm here for this slow burn!

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16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

As for Shaun/Claire, add me to the list of those who like that pairing :). I do get people's concerns about co-workers getting together, though, and I do love their friendship as well. Be it platonic or romantic, as long as I get to see them interacting, I'm good. 

I like Shaun and Claire as friends more than lovers. And ironically, as empathetic as Claire is with patients and their families, she doesn't have many close relationships in her life. I think Shaun might be her closest friend. She wouldn't admit to herself till the day Jared left that the two of them had been doing more than hooking up--Claire actually didn't want anything more than a casual relationship with him. And she has mother issues. So I think Claire finds intimate relationships almost as challenging as Shawn does. 

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On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 1:51 PM, auntiemel said:

Lea strikes me as the kind of girl who has been able to get away with a lot of bad behavior in life with her "Tee hee hee, look how adorable I am," attitude. Like, she's cast herself in the role of Manic Pixie Dream Girl and doesn't realize her life is not an indie movie. Shaun might be one of the first people she's encountered to call her on her bullshit. Which could end up being good for both of them, provided she takes it to heart.

ETA: For example, who the fuck just shows up at a hospital and expects a surgeon - especially one in training - to have time right at that moment to go to lunch with them? "I do not have time," would have been one of the kinder things I might have said to a person who did that. But I just get the feeling that she thinks a cloud of glitter follows her everywhere she goes.

 

It doesn't matter whether the person is a surgeon in training or Paul cleaning the windows, they are at work.  Who does that ever?  Just shows up at someone's job, and expects them to be able to drop everything?  I have a family member who is retired.  She will text me while I am at work, and then be perplexed when I don't get back to her immediately.  Gee, sorry, but I was in a meeting, then up against a deadline.  I cannot take the time to reply about our social plans for the weekend.  But even she doesn't show up at my office unannounced.

By the way, there would be nothing more annoying than someone who was actually followed by a cloud of glitter.  I hate those holiday cards that have glitter on them and when you pull them out of the envelope, you get glitter everywhere and it's still embedded in the carpet months later.  Hmm, just like Lea.  

I wonder if Claire's reaction would be different if instead of a woman, it had been a male friend who treated Shaun that way, abruptly disappearing from his life.  Would there be the same you must be so excited or rather, would the reaction be more measured, wondering how Shaun feels about it, or even who does that guy think he is, just assuming you can resume your friendship to what it was?  

Edited by Calvada
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20 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

I was completely annoyed with Lea this episode barging back into Shaun’s life the way she did. That would be hard enough for a neurotypical, let alone someone on the spectrum. I was also a bit annoyed with Claire’s response to Shaun over the matter. 

After reading all the posts, I find I agree with most of them. I was annoyed that Lea came back thinking everything would be peachy, but I get that she doesn't understand all that Shaun has been through and I don't blame her for being clueless. She can do better, hopefully she/they will. I don't need romance between them but don't care if it happens, but I really just want to see Shaun and Claire be good, true friends -- seems like what both of them need the most. 

I was mostly outraged by Claire telling Shaun how to feel about Lea. That was so condescending of her. Jared did it as well in the last episode, telling Shaun he had to be be with Glassman without any regard to Shaun's feelings on the matter. It's ironic that autistic people are known for not seeing other people's perspectives, yet it's the neurotypical people who fail to see Shaun's perspective. They take it for granted that their view of the matter is correct over Shaun's and then are surprised when they finally get his viewpoint. I think there is as much room for growth in how these people interact with Shaun as there is for Shaun in how he interacts with the world.

With the teen girl story, I thought it was pointless for the social worker to wake the girl up and ask her, while she was in pain and her parents were standing nearby, to make such a big decision. I feel like there should have been no biased bystanders in the room. I am glad things worked out for Dr. Lim and her patient, but I kind of feel like Dr. Lim was almost as presumptuous as the family. I think that girl is going to need all kinds of therapy and isn't going to waltz off to have a happy sex life after all this.

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4 hours ago, ForReal said:

After reading all the posts, I find I agree with most of them. I was annoyed that Lea came back thinking everything would be peachy, but I get that she doesn't understand all that Shaun has been through and I don't blame her for being clueless. She can do better, hopefully she/they will. I don't need romance between them but don't care if it happens, but I really just want to see Shaun and Claire be good, true friends -- seems like what both of them need the most. 

I was mostly outraged by Claire telling Shaun how to feel about Lea. That was so condescending of her. Jared did it as well in the last episode, telling Shaun he had to be be with Glassman without any regard to Shaun's feelings on the matter. It's ironic that autistic people are known for not seeing other people's perspectives, yet it's the neurotypical people who fail to see Shaun's perspective. They take it for granted that their view of the matter is correct over Shaun's and then are surprised when they finally get his viewpoint. I think there is as much room for growth in how these people interact with Shaun as there is for Shaun in how he interacts with the world.

Yeah. I don’t mind that Lea came back, it was how she came back. Not just back, but crashing Shaun’s place and surprising him at work. Just, BAM, there she is. 

I’d also like to see the characters try to get Shaun’s perspective instead of insisting he try to blend into theirs. 

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I really dislike Lea. Shaun’s Friends should be encouraging him to set healthy boundaries, but telling him how to feel.

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About Lea, for me, it’s not so much about dislike.  I think she probably cares for Shaun, but I don’t think she is particularly good for him.  She fancies herself a free spirit, and perhaps she thought that it would be good for Shaun to break his routine and spirited away on a road trip to loosen him up a little.  Does that make her a bad person?  No, but it diminished my enjoyment of her as a character.  That might be okay for some people, but for Shaun with his autism, it’s a terrible idea.  Going forward, if she sticks around, and it looks like she well may, I hope they both learn from each other what works and what doesn’t in their friendship. 

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Re Claire about Lea:  I think part of why she saif what she did is because she is still hurting over Jared leaving, and would love to have him back.  So a bit of projecting there, amybe?

On 10/1/2018 at 9:52 PM, tennisgurl said:

almost lied about her consent.

Lim did lie about Mara's consent.  Mara distinctly told her "No".  It was only PLOT!!!! that kept Mara from saying anything when she realized what had been done.

On 10/1/2018 at 11:14 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Anytime lying was brought up in this episode, I kept waiting for David Shore to reveal is secret crossover, with Dr. House popping out of nowhere and yell "Everyone lies!" to Shaun.  Why, yes, I occasionally like to imagine how House and Shaun would interact with one another!

Shaun would hate House.  He doesn't "get" sarcasm, which is House's favorite mode of conversation, bar none, and would only see him as an arrogant asshat (and would be totally right).  I doubt that House would have the patience to deal with Shaun on a regular basis.

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