Spoilers and Speculation

[Boofish]

This show needs Rick and does not work when everyone is separated. My heart bleeds for the show I have loved over the years. 

[Smad]

15 hours ago, dvil said:

The article about The Whisperers in the Walking Dead Wiki explains their society.

Doesn't explain much in the way of why it's needed to do them on the show. As a horror concept they are actually great. But this show has long forgotten how to do horror. So they are pointless in the show, as their MO is nothing new. We've had them before, they were called Wolves. The Wolves lived by a similar principle (men are animals). The only difference is that Wolves didn't do walker camouflage.

But I still don't see a point to them as they themselves are a boring concept. Moving from place to place, living like animals and using walker heards either as attack dogs or to hide. The reason why our group was interesting was because of the struggle between retaining your humanity and how much of yourself are you willing to loose said humanity in the face of an apocalypse and human and undead evil alike. Looking for a place to rebuild society and therefor having a life worth living. It was all about that struggle. But the Whisperers? They are basically just pack animals looking to kill any human who wants to be human. Their existence and way of life is completely uninteresting for me as a viewer because their MO is utterly boring. I want to see human drama, not animals doing what animals do.

[dvil]

10 minutes ago, Smad said:

They are basically just pack animals looking to kill any human who wants to be human. Their existence and way of life is completely uninteresting for me as a viewer because their MO is utterly boring. I want to see human drama, not animals doing what animals do.

I suspect the TV show is going to downplay or ignore the rape aspect of their society. If the Whisperers truly will be portrayed as a pack, Alpha and Beta better come off as more extreme than Negan.

[JackONeill]

33 minutes ago, Smad said:

Doesn't explain much in the way of why it's needed to do them on the show. As a horror concept they are actually great. But this show has long forgotten how to do horror. So they are pointless in the show, as their MO is nothing new. We've had them before, they were called Wolves. The Wolves lived by a similar principle (men are animals). The only difference is that Wolves didn't do walker camouflage.

But I still don't see a point to them as they themselves are a boring concept. Moving from place to place, living like animals and using walker heards either as attack dogs or to hide. The reason why our group was interesting was because of the struggle between retaining your humanity and how much of yourself are you willing to loose said humanity in the face of an apocalypse and human and undead evil alike. Looking for a place to rebuild society and therefor having a life worth living. It was all about that struggle. But the Whisperers? They are basically just pack animals looking to kill any human who wants to be human. Their existence and way of life is completely uninteresting for me as a viewer because their MO is utterly boring. I want to see human drama, not animals doing what animals do.

To me, the Wolves were both frightening AND a success because they were “in and out” quickly. Like the Terminus people. And the Claimers. They weren’t like the Governor and (god forbid, never again please) Negan. Do we really need to have a season or more about crazy dudes who drape skins over their bodies? This show really fails when they try to tell a real story, I think because they don’t have good writers and (IMO) not great actors. This show is better with shorter pieces. 

[enoughcats]

Michonne, having tired of the same old stuff, goes shopping and decides to become a fashion goddess.

 

Michonne wears Vivienne Westwood and wins 

Every view was great

[tv echo]

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Veronica Mars, B99, The Resident, TWD, Homecoming, Supernatural, Schitt's Creek and More
By Michael Ausiello / November 20 2018, 1:41 PM PST
https://tvline.com/2018/11/20/homecoming-season-2-cast-spoilers-julia-roberts-returning/

Quote

Question: Walking Dead midseason finale spoilers — I want. You got? —Jer
Ausiello: Do I. Sunday’s suspenseful “Evolution” (AMC, 9/8c) not only turns the Whisperers subplot up to the volume of screams, it reveals a new romance and unleashes a threat that our fractured family of survivors might have liked to think was well behind them.

[OoohMaggie]

He is funny though, I made the same point to a friend of mine once. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[amazinglybored]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Veronica Mars, B99, The Resident, TWD, Homecoming, Supernatural, Schitt's Creek and More
By Michael Ausiello / November 20 2018, 1:41 PM PST
https://tvline.com/2018/11/20/homecoming-season-2-cast-spoilers-julia-roberts-returning/

 

Dayum, FPP is a busy man. Rosita and someone else. More like Daddy Gabriel, am I right?

 

*badum tsssss* I slay myself.

[OoohMaggie]

16 hours ago, JackONeill said:

To me, the Wolves were both frightening AND a success because they were “in and out” quickly.

I think the build up to the Wolves was well done, the air of mystery, not knowing just how bad these people were going to be did leave us wanting more. It was just the realisation that they were a pathetic bunch that turned things to s—t, they had the wherewithal to make the ridiculous  ‘Disco Truck’ trap, yet weren’t even in possession of a loaded gun. They should have all been killed rushing Alex, if the Alexandrians had all carried sidearms as they should have been. They were in a similar state to Jed’s bunch of vagabonds, but they’ve had six years to get like that. If the Wolves appeared now it would be more appropriate, they don’t seem much different to the Whisperers though. The Wolves, promised much, provided little, now why does that sound familiar?

[JackONeill]

3 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

I think the build up to the Wolves was well done, the air of mystery, not knowing just how bad these people were going to be did leave us wanting more. It was just the realisation that they were a pathetic bunch that turned things to s—t, they had the wherewithal to make the ridiculous  ‘Disco Truck’ trap, yet weren’t even in possession of a loaded gun. They should have all been killed rushing Alex, if the Alexandrians had all carried sidearms as they should have been. They were in a similar state to Jed’s bunch of vagabonds, but they’ve had six years to get like that. If the Wolves appeared now it would be more appropriate, they don’t seem much different to the Whisperers though. The Wolves, promised much, provided little, now why does that sound familiar?

I think, IMO, where TPTB gets into trouble (well, there are many areas, but I'll limit it to one) is when they try to get into the head of the big baddies, as they did with the Gov and definitely Negan. I mean with Negan we knew how big his dick was and how big his balls were. We had just a little of that—just a sketch really—of Terminus, the Claimers, and the Wolves. I don't much care for why someone's evil or sick or mad. Just let them be mad and let them run wild. But do it quickly. Don't belabor it. Have you ever wondered why most (nearly all) of the Twilight Zone episodes were only 30 minutes instead of a full hour—Serling knew the more you explain things, the more you lose the power of surprise and fear.

[nodorothyparker]

3 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

He is funny though, I made the same point to a friend of mine once.

 

Gabriel speaks for all of us, yet he too falls into the same trap of telling Chatty Cathy anything like he's an actual human being.

[nodorothyparker]

From TSDF Army.  Midseason Finale Q&A Episode 9.8 “Evolution.” 

Quote

1. Does Tara allow Magna's group to stay?

Yes, but it could be only temporary. Tara tells them that Jesus has to make the final call.

2. Is there tension between Michonne and anyone at Hilltop?

Yes, particularly Carol. Apparently Ezekiel had written Michonne a letter imploring her to rejoin them and participate in the fair, but Michonne didn't even bother to respond. Carol also pleads with her, but to no avail.

3. Is there anymore information or hints about the mysterious event that occurred over the time jump? Do we see if anyone else has a scar?

No, and no.

4. How is Henry acclimating to the Hilltop?

At first, he acclimates well. Earl takes a real liking to him and even invites him to dinner. Instead of going, Henry ends up partying with some other teenagers outside the walls. He gets completely wasted on moonshine and ends up in the Hilltop jail for drunk and disorderly conduct. Earl is disappointed, but says he'll talk to Jesus when he gets back about getting Henry released early -- as long as he promises never to pull a stunt like that again. Henry also has a little crush on Enid and gets a bit jealous when he discovers she’s with Alden.

5. What happens at the barn?

Thanks to Dog, Eugene is found. Eugene is completely hysterical. He says the walkers are evolving. He also claims that since he has holed up in the barn, that same herd he and Rosita encountered has passed by and circled back 3 times. Eugene is convinced they are looking specifically for him.

6. What's going on back at Alexandria?

Because Michonne is away, Father G has been put in charge of looking after Negan. He's not very happy about it, especially since he can't go to Hilltop to be with the injured Rosita. Likely because Gabe is so preoccupied thinking about Rosita, he inadvertently leaves Negan's cell unlocked. Negan escapes!

7. What kind of action do we see with the Whisperers? Are they revealed as humans?

The Whisperer herd isn't behaving like a herd at all. While Jesus and Aaron help carry Eugene and try to make it back to the horses, Daryl stays behind and tries to divert the herd. He uses firecrackers and even Dog barking his head off, but nothing will cause them to change their course. The Whisperers finally reveal themselves at the end of the episode when Aaron, Jesus, and Eugene are cornered by the herd in a graveyard.

8. Does anyone get hurt or die? How?

Michonne, Magna, and Yumiko finally show up to help Aaron, Daryl, Jesus and Eugene in the graveyard. While everyone else is trying to break through an old, rusted gate to escape, Jesus tries to keep the walkers at bay with some slick sword and judo moves. It works for a while, but finally one Whisperer grabs Jesus, spins him around, and stabs him from behind all the way through his chest. When the Whisperer stabs Jesus he/she says, “You’re where you do not belong.” It’s hard to tell for sure, but it looks like it’s the same Whisperer from the opening minutes.

9. How does the episode end?

On a gigantic cliffhanger (rolls eyes). After Jesus is killed, everyone else goes to examine one of the dead “walkers." They discover that the walker is really a person, but is wearing a zombie skin. Then, the Whisperer herd that had previously retreated starts to circle back towards them once again. You can hear them whispering things along the lines of, “They’re trapped.” “Let’s get them.” It’s super creepy!!!

 

Goddamnit, Gabriel.  They can't ever let him win one.  And we called it.  Teen storyline.

[raven]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

4. How is Henry acclimating to the Hilltop?

Well we were all worried about this for sure <------------------ sarcasm

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Goddamnit, Gabriel.  They can't ever let him win one.  And we called it.  Teen storyline.

It was only a matter of time before Negan got out; too bad it was Gabe.  You would think the guy who works security would be better at it; I suppose they're going with "it's been 6 years, no one worries about Negan blah blah", worried about Rosita, blah blah."

And yeah, YA in the ZA.  Ugh.

[JackONeill]

13 minutes ago, raven said:

And yeah, YA in the ZA.  Ugh.

 

Did no one catch the zip code of Alexandria? 90210.

[Please advise if I'm dating myself?]

[OoohMaggie]

7 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

He is funny though, I made the same point to a friend of mine once. 

 

I should have made it clear that my first comments were about Negan and his smell gag. 

Which is the real Negan? This is the second time we’ve seen him start off with the vile comments, with Maggie he broke down and wanted to die, with FG he seemed concerned about Rosita, so which part is the act? 

Edited November 21, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[amazinglybored]

14 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

I should have made it clear that my first comments were about Negan.

Which is the real Negan? This is the second time we’ve seen him start off with the vile comments, with Maggie he broke down and wanted to die, with FG he seemed concerned about Rosita, so which part is the act? 

 

For the show? Maybe it’s supposed to be a mystery, maybe it’s supposed to be that he’s changed or a good guy.

For me? Thinking about the harem, he’s a serial rapist with that who regularly (?) tortured, abused and tormented people. Things like that don’t just go away and are who a person is. His shit wasn’t even for survival and he clearly enjoyed himself.

[AngelaHunter]

22 hours ago, Smad said:

But this show has long forgotten how to do horror.

There's a lot they don't do well:

- Romance - always forced according to some agenda, wooden and unappealing.

- Interpersonal relationships  - No one, at least IME, goes around giving monologues at each other in place of real conversation.

- Subtlety - I know I've bitched about that, how TPTB feel we need to be bashed over the head with a baseball bat to "get" anything.

- Humour - There used to be some really good, sly humour in this show. Lighter moments are needed to maker the darker all the more shocking but I guess they're firmly in the "We are artistes and that's very very serious business."

38 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

Thinking about the harem, he’s a serial rapist with that who regularly (?) tortured, abused and tormented people.

Yes, but I guess Kirkman just doesn't get that rape can be committed by means other than physical brutality, and wants Negan - a sadistic, cowardly, insecure bully - to be some Galahad who forbids that kind of rape. The crying Amber, who looked about 17, was particularly disturbing when you think of a 50-year old man coercing her into having sex with him. Entering pedophile territory there. Ugh.

[BellyLaughter]

Oh, not Jesus??!! ☹️

[nodorothyparker]

It's telling that news of Jesus getting bumped off barely elicits a reaction.  He'll go out as he lived, with us still barely knowing a thing about him or why he was supposed to be such a big deal.  

[amazinglybored]

I’m annoyed for what could have been with Jesus, that Negan is still alive, that I’m going to get Henry’s stupid plot, that they’re losing a 3rd character so quickly and that they’re losing a character that was okay except for his random pacifist run. They don’t have that many actual characters so it’s annoying to kill off one I think they could have improved, and if Danai leaves it’s going to look worse in hindsight imo.

 

This is what happens when you lose multiple long serving actors close together, lose interest in other characters in favour of dick rambles, never develop some characters and dedicate so much time to Negan and co.

 

 

3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yes, but I guess Kirkman just doesn't get that rape can be committed by means other than physical brutality, and wants Negan - a sadistic, cowardly, insecure bully - to be some Galahad who forbids that kind of rape. The crying Amber, who looked about 17, was particularly disturbing when you think of a 50-year old man coercing her into having sex with him. Entering pedophile territory there. Ugh.

 

It’s disturbing, tbh. I didn’t like watching it but I’m going to be pissed if I’m supposed to gloss over what Negan did for some redemption crap. He’s not redeemable.

[piequinn35]

So with Rick's departure, what happened to Sanctuary?

[mightysparrow]

4 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

 

For the show? Maybe it’s supposed to be a mystery, maybe it’s supposed to be that he’s changed or a good guy.

For me? Thinking about the harem, he’s a serial rapist with that who regularly (?) tortured, abused and tormented people. Things like that don’t just go away and are who a person is. His shit wasn’t even for survival and he clearly enjoyed himself.

Agreed.

There is NO redeeming Negan.  It's not just that he killed people.  It's not even that he killed Glenn and Abraham, even though that's the deal breaker for me.  Lots of people in the ZA have killed, some of them have killed really nice people.  But Negan LIKED killing Glenn and Abraham and all his other victims.  He liked that his victims' loved ones had to watch without making a move. 

Kirkman has some antiquated idea of what a 'rapist' is.  He seems to believe that it's some evil monster lurking in the bushes.  In his mind, the fact that Negan had his victims sit around in tight dresses and high heels and gave them a comfortable life, means that the sex was consensual.  Thinking like that is why rape victims are so reluctant to come forward.  Negan killed for pleasure and coerced young women into having sex by threatening their loved ones.  He encouraged his minions to kill for pleasure too.  And he made himself the 'alpha male' by not allowing any other man to compete with him sexually.  Does he really think that those women CHOSE him over the men they loved?

I bought that Wolfie could change but I will never buy that Negan can.  I don't care if he rescues a trailer full of puppies during his escape and spends the rest of his life helping Judith with her algebra.  He should have died a long time ago.  If tptb are so much in love with JDM, they can bring him back as Negan's long-lost twin.

 

I never 'got' Jesus and don't care that he's dead.  The character and the actor were equally boring.

[AngelaHunter]

3 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

And he made himself the 'alpha male' by not allowing any other man to compete with him sexually.  Does he really think that those women CHOSE him over the men they loved?

Exactly. He didn't ban rape because he cared about the victims in any way. He did it because any of his henchmen having sex without his permission undermined his authority. Women are a commodity to him. I'd have sex with him too in order to protect my husband/brother or whoever from being killed, tortured or worked to death. I think most women would. Doesn't mean it's not rape. It's so embarassingly obvious that Negan is Kirkman's alter ego, his fantasy persona, maybe the way in which a portly, unattractive man gets even with every girl or woman who rejected him. Knowing so clearly what's going on in his head is kind of creepy/scary.

10 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I never 'got' Jesus and don't care that he's dead.  The character and the actor were equally boring.

Jesus bites it? Couldn't care less. Totally boring in every way. Good riddance, leather coat, man bun and waffling between "Save them all" and "Kill them all (as long as someone else did the killing)."

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

So with Rick's departure, what happened to Sanctuary?

TWD hasn’t gotten into too many specific details, but a lot is easy to deduce - and it appears...

1. Between (a) the Saviors’ walkout on the bridge project, (b) Rick’s ‘death’, AND (c) the renegade Savior attack on the bridge camp, food and other resource support of Sanctuary by the other settlements dried right the fuck up.
2. With no food coming in and scarce arable land of its own, the Sanctuary settlement collapsed shortly thereafter.
3. Some former Saviors (a very few, it appears) chose to / were able to join one of the other existing settlements, some grouped together and formed raiding parties to pillage the goods transports moving between the settlements, and some simply scattered to parts unknown.

[maystone]

On 11/19/2018 at 2:13 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Oh hell, we're about to get a teen storyline, aren't we?

That also looks like it's FPP's turn to hang out with Negan.  Joy.

Big no to both of those things. Do we have to do a teen story line? There are already a number of teen horror shows out there; run along, children, and watch those. But if we must have them, do they have to be the kids who have their own rooftop hangout? No chores? Really - nothing at all that needs doing besides hanging out topside and checking out the new kid in town? And sneaking off outside of the secured walls to get drunk on moonshine. Of course. Sign me up for pre-hating these guys.

4 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

So with Rick's departure, what happened to Sanctuary?

Nashville beat me to it :) But I wonder if there's more of a story about what happened to the Sanctuary itself. Is it even still standing or did they burn the place down when they left? That was where the bullet factory was, right? It might explain why there doesn't seem to be a big supply of bullets available.

[AngelaHunter]

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

4. How is Henry acclimating to the Hilltop?

At first, he acclimates well. Earl takes a real liking to him and even invites him to dinner. Instead of going, Henry ends up partying with some other teenagers outside the walls. He gets completely wasted on moonshine and ends up in the Hilltop jail for drunk and disorderly conduct.

We really have to wait four whole days to see this? Too bad Maggie's gone. She might have hung him.

[Nashville]

49 minutes ago, maystone said:

[Sanctuary] was where the bullet factory was, right? It might explain why there doesn't seem to be a big supply of bullets available.

Actually, no - the bullet factory was an old foundry in a town close to Alexandria.  Eugene ran across it while scavenging, and pitched the bullet-making idea to Abraham - before CDB’s first (and Abraham’s last) face-to-face with Negan.  The Saviors did take it over when Negan took Eugene from Alexandria; without Eugene’s continued management of the operation, though, I don’t think the Saviors had a prayer of continuing the operation after the Last Battle - especially since the bullet-making process in which Eugene had trained them had had been so dramatically demonstrated to include some deliberately-introduced catastrophic flaws.  ;>

[JackONeill]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

Actually, no - the bullet factory was an old foundry in a town close to Alexandria.  Eugene ran across it while scavenging, and pitched the bullet-making idea to Abraham - before CDB’s first (and Abraham’s last) face-to-face with Negan.  The Saviors did take it over when Negan took Eugene from Alexandria; without Eugene’s continued management of the operation, though, I don’t think the Saviors had a prayer of continuing the operation after the Last Battle - especially since the bullet-making process in which Eugene had trained them had had been so dramatically demonstrated to include some deliberately-introduced catastrophic flaws.  ;>

That’s the problem with this show. All this stuff that Nashville just said is true of course, but I honestly don’t remember it, because frankly was it really all that important? Sure, making bullets is damn important, but in the long drawn-out process this show employs in telling a story, it’s hard to keep track of everything. But the bigger problem is that the point of the particular story (Eugene making bullets) only gets scant attention to start with, then it wanders, then wanders some more (episodes pass with no mention of it), only to finally peter out with little to no significance.

Look at the story of Jesus. Started out interetsing, then it ... wandered ... and changed ... then wandered some more. Somewhere in that process I lost interest.

Edited November 22, 2018 by JackONeill

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

That’s the problem with this show. All this stuff that Nashville just said is true of course, but I honestly don’t remember it, because frankly was it really all that important? Sure, making bullets is damn important, but in the long drawn-out process this show employs in telling a story, it’s hard to keep track of everything. But the bigger problem is that the point of the particular story (Eugene making bullets) only gets scant attention to start with, then it wanders, then wanders some more (episodes pass with no mention of it), only to finally peter out with little to no significance.

Look at the story of Jesus. Started out interetsing, then it ... wandered ... and changed ... then wandered some more. Somewhere in that process I lost interest.

Absolutely true - and that’s a significant problem (some might even say THE significant problem) when a show loses its way and starts throwing new characters/plot lines into the mix willy-nilly in an attempt to keep its audience engaged. Even the best jugglers can keep only so many balls in the air at one time; overload them, and some balls (even important ones) will eventually get dropped and roll under the couch, never to get picked up again.  :|

[mightysparrow]

I'm furious about how they threw Maggie away.  I was looking forward to seeing how she and Michonne resolved their differences.  There was history between the two of them (Michonne really cared for Glenn).  I REFUSE to believe that Maggie wasn't there for Michonne during her pregnancy.  Michonne can't have been as big an asshole as she is right now for SIX WHOLE YEARS.

I can't say I was a 'fan' of Maggie but I did think she was an important character.  I do hope that fans of the character make Kirkman, Gimple and all the other assholes that run this show know how displeased they are with what they did to both the character and the actress.  Do they really think that rebuilding the show around Norman Reedus and Jeffrey Dean Morgan, sprinkled with a cast of assorted nobodies is going to work?  I hope the actors who have real careers and solid reputations (Seth, I'm looking at you, baby) beat feet out of this shitstorm the moment they can.  They need to look at what they did to Lauren and KNOW that tptb will do the exact same to them.

[JackONeill]

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

I'm furious about how they threw Maggie away.  I was looking forward to seeing how she and Michonne resolved their differences.  There was history between the two of them (Michonne really cared for Glenn).  I REFUSE to believe that Maggie wasn't there for Michonne during her pregnancy.  Michonne can't have been as big an asshole as she is right now for SIX WHOLE YEARS.

I can't say I was a 'fan' of Maggie but I did think she was an important character.  I do hope that fans of the character make Kirkman, Gimple and all the other assholes that run this show know how displeased they are with what they did to both the character and the actress.  Do they really think that rebuilding the show around Norman Reedus and Jeffrey Dean Morgan, sprinkled with a cast of assorted nobodies is going to work?  I hope the actors who have real careers and solid reputations (Seth, I'm looking at you, baby) beat feet out of this shitstorm the moment they can.  They need to look at what they did to Lauren and KNOW that tptb will do the exact same to them.

I'm afraid that we're going to find out the rift between Alexandria and Hilltop was started because of the rift between Michonne and Maggie. Even though the last episode that had Maggie in it would have seemed to show that Maggie was "over" killing Negan outright, but we know that bugged her, big time, and understandably. But I could see a long-simmering feud like that as a cause for the two encampments to be "cool" toward one another. What makes no sense, in that context, are the scars on Daryl and Carol. Plus now with Lauren Cohan gone, how will they resolve Maggie vs. Michonne, if that's what it is? Then again, this show never resolves anything, so why am I worried?

[AngelaHunter]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

Even the best jugglers can keep only so many balls in the air at one time; overload them

Especially when we have to hear about Negan's balls, ad nauseum.

As for Maggie: What's the problem? We got the vital information that she's now "far far away." I wondered if I had accidentally tuned into "Shrek."

[IndyMischa]

Thanks for killing off one of the few characters I had any interest in getting to know better, show. Keep it up - I may be able to stop watching before the end. 

[OoohMaggie]

[peach]

Apparently the whisperers are Siddiq and Michonne.  Someone is leaf blowing outside and I couldn't hear anything they were saying.  lol

[AngelaHunter]

5 hours ago, peach said:

Someone is leaf blowing outside and I couldn't hear anything they were saying.

There's just a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow outside my window and I couldn't understand a damned thing either.

ETA: I went to YT and put the CC on. Waste of time for this utterly lame dialogue.

Edited November 23, 2018 by AngelaHunter

[Morrigan2575]

Damn. I had my money on Ezekiel buying the farm in the MSF. Jesus getting killed is a total shocker.

[Fellaway]

I guess this means I won't be getting the Aaron/Jesus relationship I'd been looking forward to, the one bright spot on the horizon.  Instead, we get Teen!Drama.  Way to go, Show.

I'm not a reader of the graphic novels, but is there any spec from them as to the matching scars on Michonne's and Daryl's backs?

[OoohMaggie]

10 hours ago, Fellaway said:

I'm not a reader of the graphic novels, but is there any spec from them as to the matching scars on Michonne's and Daryl's backs?

Apparently that story is not featured in the comic.

[JackONeill]

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Damn. I had my money on Ezekiel buying the farm in the MSF. Jesus getting killed is a total shocker.

What's interesting — or sad, depending on your viewpoint — but who the heck is (was) Jesus? Seriously!!! I mean, contrast him with Merle.  Merle was at best a third-string character. But people got to know him, and either despised him or, in some respects, admired him. I won't say he was fully fleshed-out, because, frankly, I don't think any character on a TV show can be fully fleshed out. But people knew who Merle was.

So, again, who was Jesus? What did we know or learn about him? He started off with a bang, but he had this element of "Man With No Name" persona. But then that was sort of dropped. Then we went all peace-nil on us, despite his "fightin'-ways." Now there was this glimmer of something with Aaron. And now ... he's dead. Who was he, and what did he contribute to the story? How did he move the story forward? I have nothing against the actor, but what a waste!!!

[Ohwell]

Well, all I can say is, the actor who played Jesus got a nice, steady paycheck for basically just being there mouthing some words and doing a few ninja jumps.

[peach]

So I guess this will leave Tara as head of Hilltop, and she will basically take over the Maggie role now.  Yawn.

[LydiaMoon1]

45 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

What's interesting — or sad, depending on your viewpoint — but who the heck is (was) Jesus? Seriously!!!

Who was Jesus? <Gimple, Kirkman, and the writers turn to each other in confusion> He was a gay guy with a cool name who threw awesome ninja kicks. What more did you need to know?

[amazinglybored]

They were a lot better at character work in the early seasons and that includes the characters who died without a super long run on the show.

 

Shane. I still miss that crazy bastard and how he drove the story forward. I’d say the character was felt until the end of Rick’s story and will likely be beyond Rick now. He was the best antagonist the show ever had imo.

Hershel. The best conscience  of the group character they’ve ever had and a nice character arc.

Morgan. Remembered for years after his introduction.

Beth. Not great, but more of a character than Rosita, Eugene, Jesus, Tara, Aaron and whoever I’ve forgotten. A solid character arc you appreciate more after seeing what they do now.

Lori. She sucked but was more of an understandable character than the ones they have now.

Andrea. Awful (yeah, this show and women) but more memorable than a slew of characters after. No one is going to forget about Andrea and Lori or say they got pushed to the background.    

Merle. Probably the best C character the show ever had. Entertaining, a cohesive arc, growth, fit well and logically with a bigger character, and given an appropriate amount of screen time.

Lizzie and Mica. One of the better child storylines the show did and the right size for the show.

Tyreese. A fairly well explored character with a fairly natural ending. There was definitely some angry black man trope to start with, though. Yeah, the issues of TWD.

Bob. Solid side character who was more of a character than a lot of what they’ve done since.

 

Even the remaining old characters have suffered from it. Michonne became Rick’s love interest more than her own character, Daryl stopped talking and he was a fairly mouthy/funny character back in the day and Carol got stashed in a cabin for awhile. Tara... so, I stopped watching the show early in season 7 and caught up for Rick’s death but that sucked me into a re-watch. When I started again, I didn’t remember who she was when she washed up on the beach and thought it was a weird way to introduce a new character. On rewatch, she was an interesting character I cared about until they just stopped writing for her. Rosita was never developed, Eugene has gotten some growth but is mainly that funny weird dude and Aaron consistently has any storylines largely skipped over. I guess Abraham was shallow but entertaining? They’ve basically got a bunch of T-Dogs now.

 

I somewhat blame their infatuation with Negan but it’s a bigger problem than that alone. He just compounded the inability to juggle the 50 characters they’ve got and contributed to sidelining some.

[tv echo]

Why The Walking Dead Has Been Using Negan A Lot Less In Season 9
BY NICK VENABLE  NOVEMBER 22, 2018
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2461933/why-the-walking-dead-has-been-using-negan-a-lot-less-in-season-9

Quote

With two time jumps, a host of new characters, a grown-up Judith and a set of new mysteries, The Walking Dead looks and feels completely different from past season. One of the biggest changes is the pronounced lack of Jeffrey Dean Morgan's formerly monolithic villain Negan. Walking Dead showrunner Angela Kang spoke with CinemaBlend ahead of the midseason finale, and I asked how intentional it was to keep Negan on the back burner in differentiating Season 9 from previous years. In her words:

"I think it's because the last chapter of the story of The Walking Dead was this All Out War story that was so heavily focused on Negan and the Saviors. When I came into working on this season with the writers, I really thought, 'Okay, we've kind of told that chapter of the story, so let's see what our characters are up to now.' Negan, and his legacy, is something that really hangs heavy over our characters. But I wanted to tell that story through what the others are doing. And I think that in a lot of ways, by having sort of key moments with him this season, those moments are very memorable. And I think Jeffrey does an amazing job, but we wanted to kind of show off a bit of an evolution with his character. I just felt that for the, for the way that the particular story was going this season, that less was more, you know?"
*  *  *
Angela Kang explained that limiting Negan's screen time was purposeful, and that it's more of a temporary thing than a longterm one. More Negan is on the way, so don't worry. But before that could happen, Kang explained to me how they wanted to use other characters' points of view to supplement the big bad's current story.

"Negan definitely has his moments to shine, and he's got more coming up, but it was a conscious decision, just from a storytelling perspective of wanting to show where everybody was at in the aftermath of that war. And it felt more powerful to kind of focus on the people who were not in the prison cell, while also giving us an insight into Negan. From episode to episode, when we see him, he's definitely in a different place than we've ever seen him in the past."
*  *  *
While waiting to see how Negan's story shakes out, stay tuned for more from CinemaBlend's interview with Walking Dead showrunner Angela Kang, in which we discussed those X scars, the Whisperers and more.

Edited November 24, 2018 by tv echo

[peach]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Kang explained to me how they wanted to use other characters' points of view to supplement the big bad's current story.

So...no question about it then.  Negan IS the main character.  Team Family are just the "supplement."  Good luck with that, Angela.

[nodorothyparker]

45 minutes ago, tv echo said:

More Negan is on the way, so don't worry.

They seriously think this is a thing?  That actually explains a whole lot about a whole lot of things we've sat through.  

They're just determined to kill the golden goose, aren't they?

[amazinglybored]

Lol. Jesus. I’m worried! I’m worried!

 

Someone needs to make a minimized Negan edit.

[mightysparrow]

They honestly think that a large portion of the viewing public is wondering why there isn't more Negan?  The reality is that a large portion of the viewing public is wondering why Negan is still alive.  Why Negan still has a story when Maggie has been tossed aside? 

Last season, valuable viewing time was wasted on Jadis/Ann.  She had nothing to do with the story and no-one misses her now she's gone.  Even the character who was fucking her has moved on without looking back.  We now know that the Jadis/Ann story is Gimple's imagined road into the movies (AS IF!!!).   He (and the powers that be at AMC) seem to think that the character/actress are interesting enough to build a whole new TWD world around.  Where did they get that idea from?  Was there anybody out there begging for MORE Jadis?

I won't miss Jesus because like @JackONeill, I have no idea WHO Jesus is.  But there were a lot of people who were really excited when the character appeared, based on the character's story in the comics.  None of that potential has been realized and, instead of developing the characters we already have, tptb have added even MORE characters to an already bloated cast.  And they're going to double-down on Negan, because he hasn't driven enough viewers away.

FUCKERY.

4 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

They were a lot better at character work in the early seasons and that includes the characters who died without a super long run on the show.

 

Shane. I still miss that crazy bastard and how he drove the story forward. I’d say the character was felt until the end of Rick’s story and will likely be beyond Rick now. He was the best antagonist the show ever had imo.

Hershel. The best conscience  of the group character they’ve ever had and a nice character arc.

Morgan. Remembered for years after his introduction.

Beth. Not great, but more of a character than Rosita, Eugene, Jesus, Tara, Aaron and whoever I’ve forgotten. A solid character arc you appreciate more after seeing what they do now.

Lori. She sucked but was more of an understandable character than the ones they have now.

Andrea. Awful (yeah, this show and women) but more memorable than a slew of characters after. No one is going to forget about Andrea and Lori or say they got pushed to the background.    

Merle. Probably the best C character the show ever had. Entertaining, a cohesive arc, growth, fit well and logically with a bigger character, and given an appropriate amount of screen time.

Lizzie and Mica. One of the better child storylines the show did and the right size for the show.

Tyreese. A fairly well explored character with a fairly natural ending. There was definitely some angry black man trope to start with, though. Yeah, the issues of TWD.

Bob. Solid side character who was more of a character than a lot of what they’ve done since.

 

Even the remaining old characters have suffered from it. Michonne became Rick’s love interest more than her own character, Daryl stopped talking and he was a fairly mouthy/funny character back in the day and Carol got stashed in a cabin for awhile. Tara... so, I stopped watching the show early in season 7 and caught up for Rick’s death but that sucked me into a re-watch. When I started again, I didn’t remember who she was when she washed up on the beach and thought it was a weird way to introduce a new character. On rewatch, she was an interesting character I cared about until they just stopped writing for her. Rosita was never developed, Eugene has gotten some growth but is mainly that funny weird dude and Aaron consistently has any storylines largely skipped over. I guess Abraham was shallow but entertaining? They’ve basically got a bunch of T-Dogs now.

 

I somewhat blame their infatuation with Negan but it’s a bigger problem than that alone. He just compounded the inability to juggle the 50 characters they’ve got and contributed to sidelining some.

Your list of past characters almost made me weep.  It hurts to remember the days when TWD was about SOMETHING.

[JackONeill]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

They seriously think this is a thing?  That actually explains a whole lot about a whole lot of things we've sat through.  

They're just determined to kill the golden goose, aren't they?

I think that goose was killed a few seasons ago. Now it’s just a bunch of ducklings wandering around. (Yeah, I know I mixed my birds. But the one bird I haven’t mixed up is my middle one — which is pointed directly at this show.)