S10.E21: Reunion Part 2

[Jextella]

7 hours ago, Frances said:

Thank you for saying this!!! What you say is exactly what happened. I have the show downloaded, and have rewatched this scene like four times. Sonja never once compares death and divorce. Here's what happened:

Dorinda berates and ridicules Sonja for living in the past and talking about her ex all the time.  Luann says "you've been through a lot" to Sonja. Dorinda immediately starts shouting "stop with the baloney, I buried a husband..." Sonja gets defensive and says "oh, we've heard that a thousand times..." And then Dorinda goes ape-shit, and starts yelling "don't you dare compare my husband dying with your divorce," and then implies that Sonja's marriage ended because Sonja was cheating. And Sonja gets upset because no one, especially her BFF Ramona, comes to her defence and says she didn't cheat on her husband. The only person who ever made a comparison between death and divorce is Dorinda.  

Carole wasn't there -- she just got a report from Dorinda, immediately cast it as the truth because she's on the same team as Dorinda, never checked the facts, and vilified Sonja. And then, after the show aired and she saw the whole scene on tv, she wrote a blog post about "poor dumb Sonja" not knowing the difference between death and divorce. For such a supposedly amazing journalist and defender of Truth, Carole is not very good at checking the facts or reporting them accurately.

Dorinda is just pissed about Sonja planting stories in the news.  Can't say I blame her.  She'd be more lenient if Sonja didn't cross her this way (assuming it's true she planted stories).

Either way, time to move on, and at least try to make it work.

And while death trumps divorce, a loss is a loss is a loss.  All the women are suffering - LuAnn, Sonja, Dorinda, Bethenny.  The two people who handled the demise of their relationships (be they from death or divorce) successfully are Ramona and Carole (Adam), and I still think Carole is lost/grieving upon the death of her husband years ago.

Tinsely got it out of her system by stalking her ex, but she seems to have learned and appears to be handling the fact that her current fling isn't likely long-term material.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Jextella

[Martinigirl]

48 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Carole stated that their friendship was (paraphrasing) "a lot of Bethenny, and not much Carole".  

It may be because Carole is as exciting as a serving  of Wasa Bread.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Just now, Martinigirl said:

It may be because Carole is as exciting as a serving  of Wasa Bread.

Uh yeah.  That must be it. 

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, Martinigirl said:

It may be because Carole is as exciting as a serving  of Wasa Bread.

Or that being around Bethenny is like finding glass in your milkshake.

[jaync]

Quote

Hmmm...but not one word of condolence to Bethenny.

Carole very well could've offered her condolences to Beth in private. Just because it wasn't witnessed by the pubic, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Quote

I don’t remember this exact quote but it was FOUL of Bethany to even insert herself in that narrative if that was going to be her response. 

It was foul, but Beth is a foul person who needed to defend her foulness of dating an accused rapist.

[film noire]

On 9/2/2018 at 7:06 PM, walnutqueen said:

 wasn't that "widow, no kids, into politics, etc" quip something about the persona Carole was asked to portray in that silly Murder Mystery game 

No, the comment Bethenny made about the Murder Mystery character included a very cruel and low-rent jab at Anthony being dead (iirc, "a know it all politician in vintage clothing with a dead husband").  

Jesus,  Frankel is foul -- who turns somebody's dead spouse into a bitchy joke?  She's just a Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.

On 9/2/2018 at 7:42 PM, Gam2 said:

]Someone wrote a post challenging Beth, I think, for saying women report rapes that didn’t happen. The poster was apparently outraged by that statement and said it wasn’t true. 

I think you're referring to my post (I'm the only one who posted about this in the last fifteen pages, I think).

If you are referring to my post,  I did not say women never make/report false accusations of rape. I took issue with Frankel saying she had read "many stories of women falsely accusing men of rape".  Those stories are rare, not many.

I also (since we're back on Frankel's crap about this issue)  have problems with the second half of her comment:  "The women bending the truth drown out the voices of the women who really need to be heard now and forever." I could ham-handedly try to explain why that comment is toxic,  but instead, I'm just going to quote Glosswitch, who puts it perfectly in a column about a woman (named Beale) who levied false rape accusations:  

"There’s no common pattern of women inventing tales of rape in order to live a life of “bogus victimhood”. Yet when one woman does this, all women are expected to pay the price. I, for one, refuse to. If there were thousands of Beales out there, there’s little doubt in my mind that we’d know about it. But there aren’t. Right now there’s only one, which is why we know her name. Meanwhile the names of most rapists will be forgotten (if they’re ever known at all). One woman’s lies do not justify the discrediting of all future rape victims. Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking for a way to make rape appear far more rare than it actually is. I can’t help feeling those people are the ones we should treat with the most suspicion of all."

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jemma-beale-woman-lie-about-rape-ten-years-in-prison-not-all-woman-liars-not-all-men-rapists-a7912766.html

On 9/2/2018 at 8:26 PM, Mozelle said:

"I know you want to be 45...". What does that even mean? 

 It means that (per Frankel)  Carole longs to be, once again, around Bethenny's age (interesting, no? Because even as Frankel age-shamed, she still managed to make her own age a desirable one).

Quote

 At 54 is a woman supposed to sit at home, twiddling her thumbs, looking for the nearest rec center to get into BINGO?

Oh my god, of course not!

Twiddling thumbs is far too active for Carole's aging bones.  At 54, women like Carole (aka old hags) must remain hidden at home, Miss Havisham-like,  keeping their terrifying visages away from society so as not to scare children, random animals, and men on Viagra.

I will never like Carole's pigtails, or Carole in pigtails riding on handlebars, or what I see as affectations on her part, or her treatment of Jules (all endlessly documented in her forum)  but she was  absolutely age-shamed by Frankel. She was also work-shamed.  And ex-lover shamed. And "yer husband is dead - haha!" shamed. And womb-shamed.  The only thing Frankel didn't attack or mock was Baby. (Give it time.)

Quote

 That 1 in 10 (at the high end, mind you) false accusations isn't what drowns out the voices of women; it's people inflating that 1 in 10 (at the high end) in order to discredit the 9 in 10 (at the low end).

What @Mozelle said! 

Edited September 4, 2018 by film noire

[Duke2801]

Ah another masterfully written post, @film noire. Brava and ka-dooze all around. Maybe Carole will pay YOU to be her ghostwriter for her next book?! 

4 hours ago, Martinigirl said:

It may be because Carole is as exciting as a serving  of Wasa Bread.

Or that Bethenny is a flaming narcissist/emotional vampire. But whose to say, really? 

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

Or that Bethenny is a flaming narcissist/emotional vampire. But whose to say, really? 

LOL

Quote

Maybe Carole will pay YOU to be her ghostwriter for her next book?!

 

 ; )

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by film noire

[Gem 10]

5 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Carole has been on RHNY for, what, six seasons?  She's been besties with Beth for three/four seasons?  Now, according to Beth they don't have much in common and that's why Carole is now besties with Tins?  I don't get Beth's reasoning.  It's not like Beth and Carole were close for a nano second.

Beth has kind of admitted that she's a lot.  But I think she's a lot more than she thinks.  Beth is exhausting and sometimes you just need pull away from someone like Beth because her needs can be smothering.  That's what I think Carole was doing.  She didn't like what Beth said about Adam.  She didn't like that Beth wasn't giving the room she needed while comforting another friend.  It happens. 

Not taking sides here and absolutely agree with your theory about friendships.  In my own life, I had a childhood friend into adulthood that called me frequently to vent about her boyfriends, husband, etc.  It was always about her.  It got to the point that I just dumped her.  Another friend was very demanding, wanting to do something every day as she just couldn’t stand to be home.  I enjoyed being home and alone most of the time .. it didn’t bother me.  Therefore a clash.  One day she really annoyed me, and I pulled away again, never to bother with her also.  Tome, friendships are like a marriage.  If things don’t work out, and a person is unhappy with the relationship, it’s time to call it quits.  The only thing wrong with these break- ups is the bashing.  If one is unhappy about the relationship, then an explanation is needed.  I don’t understand these rants on twitter, Sm , screaming and yelling.  It’s juvenile and wrong.  They should meet, discuss and end it civilally.  But then, there would be no drama or show. Lol.

[Midnight Cheese]

5 hours ago, film noire said:

I think you're referring to my post (I'm the only one who posted about this in the last fifteen pages, I think).

If you are referring to my post,  I did not say women never make/report false accusations of rape. I took issue with Frankel saying she had read "many stories of women falsely accusing men of rape".  Those stories are rare, not many.

I also (since we're back on Frankel's crap about this issue)  have problems with the second half of her comment:  "The women bending the truth drown out the voices of the women who really need to be heard now and forever." I could ham-handedly try to explain why that comment is toxic,  but instead, I'm just going to quote Glosswitch, who puts it perfectly in a column about a woman (named Beale) who levied false rape accusations:  

"There’s no common pattern of women inventing tales of rape in order to live a life of “bogus victimhood”. Yet when one woman does this, all women are expected to pay the price. I, for one, refuse to. If there were thousands of Beales out there, there’s little doubt in my mind that we’d know about it. But there aren’t. Right now there’s only one, which is why we know her name. Meanwhile the names of most rapists will be forgotten (if they’re ever known at all). One woman’s lies do not justify the discrediting of all future rape victims. Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking for a way to make rape appear far more rare than it actually is. I can’t help feeling those people are the ones we should treat with the most suspicion of all."

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jemma-beale-woman-lie-about-rape-ten-years-in-prison-not-all-woman-liars-not-all-men-rapists-a7912766.html

 It means that (per Frankel)  Carole longs to be, once again, around Bethenny's age (interesting, no? Because even as Frankel age-shamed, she still managed to make her own age a desirable one).

Oh my god, of course not!

Twiddling thumbs is far too active for Carole's aging bones.  At 54, women like Carole (aka old hags) must remain hidden at home, Miss Havisham-like,  keeping their terrifying visages away from society so as not to scare children, random animals, and men on Viagra.

I will never like Carole's pigtails, or Carole in pigtails riding on handlebars, or what I see as affectations on her part, or her treatment of Jules (all endlessly documented in her forum)  but she was  absolutely age-shamed by Frankel. She was also work-shamed.  And ex-lover shamed. And "yer husband is dead - haha!" shamed. And womb-shamed.  The only thing Frankel didn't attack or mock was Baby. (Give it time.)

What @Mozelle said! 

 

Thank you for all of this, Film Noire.

Rape is grossly underreported.  Full stop. False accusations are rare, and no one is obliged to be polite about the opposite proposition because - maybe on Mars that’s a reality-based assertion, but not on this planet.

And yes, “I know you wish you were 45!” is IMO incontrovertibly sneering at your bestie that she all mad because she’s a liiiiiittle bit of an old crone.   Beth didn’t say “you’re acting younger and brattier than Bryn!,” so I’m not going to post as if that’s what Beth actually said.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Midnight Cheese

[walnutqueen]

4 hours ago, film noire said:

No, the comment Bethenny made about the Murder Mystery character included a very cruel and low-rent jab at Anthony being dead (iirc, "a know it all politician in vintage clothing with a dead husband").  

Jesus,  Frankel is foul -- who turns somebody's dead spouse into a bitchy joke?  She's just a Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.

A know it all about politics?  Check.  Vintage clothing?  Check.  Dead husband?  Check.

Who turns a dead spouse into a low-rent bitchy joke?  That could've been me, too.

Who turns a dead spouse into a book and being a cool dating widow into another one?  That might be some other Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.  

I happen to think they both make nasty comments, but I'm not about to get my panties all in a twist about it.  Because like Sonja with a sexy J, I go commando.    :-D

[Kemper]

With the season over and the reunion winding down....here are my thoughts on these ladies.

Tinsley...harmless and the franchise needs someone her age.  Ramona...hasn't had a true storyline in years but this show needs her.  Luanne...has pretty much made herself a spectacle these last couple of hears and I can't quit her.  Bethanny..she makes me laugh a good part of the time; can be truly nasty but like Ramona, this franchise needs her.  Sonja...has had even less storyline than Ramona; but I would kind of miss her if she went. Kind of.  Carole and Dorinda...professional widows, both ugly from the inside out.  Dorinda has been a kind, sympathetic friend at times but the darkness comes out when she drinks.  I have never been able to tolerate Carole and I don't know why.  But I am glad she's gone; hopefully she will be able to live her life and be happy.  And maybe stay off social media.

[babykin]

On 8/29/2018 at 10:18 PM, RedDelicious said:

This is what I believe.  In my eyes, Bethenny is a monster and a terrible human being.  I'd be embarrassed to be associated with her too. 

Co-sign all day. 

[Rap541]

9 hours ago, film noire said:

No, the comment Bethenny made about the Murder Mystery character included a very cruel and low-rent jab at Anthony being dead (iirc, "a know it all politician in vintage clothing with a dead husband").  

Jesus,  Frankel is foul -- who turns somebody's dead spouse into a bitchy joke?  She's just a Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.

I didn't exactly see Carole taking any offense at all at being assigned the role of a know it all politician in vintage clothing *with a dead husband* that night. She went along with that foul bitchy joke about her *dead husband* and didn't protest at all. Bethenny is a syphilitic chancre for observing the joke and Carole was what? A loving respectful widow for *making the joke*? 

I wonder if Anthony appreciates Carole attending parties where she plays the know it all politician in vintage clothes with a dead husband?

[jumper sage]

This was one of the last of the housewives shows I liked.  I didn't even watch the reunions this year.

[VedaPierce]

On 8/30/2018 at 1:19 AM, smores said:

Sure, it can be perceived that way.  The thing to me, though, would be (were someone to say this about me) who was saying it and what context they meant it in.  So, I think if I were Carole, I'd be taking stock of the fact that it's someone who was once a close friend and that the crux of the statement was really why it made sense that Carole was closer to Tinsley at the moment.  It was a checklist of commonalities rather than an indictment of flaws.  

I also think that this is where Carole is in pretty serious denial about her part in things.  She seems to think she hasn't said or done anything that was hurtful to Bethenny at all, which simply isn't true.  She's spent an entire season trashing her on tv and in her blog, while simultaneously trying to exact some sort of penance for whatever slight it is that she suffered but won't reveal.  

Bethenny has always been fairly good at taking as well as giving.  She can be harsh and she can initially push back, but generally, she'll sit there and hear people out and take in what they have to say.  Sometimes she doesn't give a shit at the end, but, a lot of times, like with Ramona in part one, she can eventually see their side, and they come to terms with a situation.  I don't think she has changed her stance on Ramona having a true skin care business at this point (hell, I don't think she does, I think she's trying to get something going, but, wanted to see if she could use the season to brand it and have a storyline), but, if that was something that Ramona felt strongly about, then she can concede that she could have handled it better.  And Ramona, likewise, can concede that her delivery isn't always the best.  I think that if Carole, at any point, had just been honest, or had copped to what she said and dropped the bullshit "Well, sure, I said that because it's the TRUTH" excuses, then they could have made some progress.  Would they have walked away as friends?  Probably not, but, they could have at least been cordial.  

Agree! The crux of the problem—to me—is that the rest of them can pretty much meet halfway and sort things out, there’s an ability to negotiate some sort of peace with one another, even if temporarily, where they can all be somewhat-if not happy with each other, at least placated by each other. But I’ve always thought Carole expects things on her terms. She’s pretty much a lone wolf. I don’t believe she’s a compromiser, and I think if you cross her once, that’s it! Basta. You’re dead to her. She seems to have a coldness or aloofness and I’m not sure if anyone ever gets too close. I’m not sure if she’s good at forgiving...

[KungFuBunny]

20 hours ago, Frances said:

Thank you for saying this!!! What you say is exactly what happened. I have the show downloaded, and have rewatched this scene like four times. Sonja never once compares death and divorce. Here's what happened:

Dorinda berates and ridicules Sonja for living in the past and talking about her ex all the time.  Luann says "you've been through a lot" to Sonja. Dorinda immediately starts shouting "stop with the baloney, I buried a husband..." Sonja gets defensive and says "oh, we've heard that a thousand times..." And then Dorinda goes ape-shit, and starts yelling "don't you dare compare my husband dying with your divorce," and then implies that Sonja's marriage ended because Sonja was cheating. And Sonja gets upset because no one, especially her BFF Ramona, comes to her defence and says she didn't cheat on her husband. The only person who ever made a comparison between death and divorce is Dorinda.  

Carole wasn't there -- she just got a report from Dorinda, immediately cast it as the truth because she's on the same team as Dorinda, never checked the facts, and vilified Sonja. And then, after the show aired and she saw the whole scene on tv, she wrote a blog post about "poor dumb Sonja" not knowing the difference between death and divorce. For such a supposedly amazing journalist and defender of Truth, Carole is not very good at checking the facts or reporting them accurately.

I believe Carole and Dorinda met before the season began filming for Season 10. Adam already dumped Carole long ago but they have an arrangement. Bethenny said things to Carole I'm sure even when Carole and Adam were together - and Bethenny has the worst delivery. Bethenny said more things when she thought they were done for real and Carole lost her mind. Dorinda wanted to continue gunning for Sonja as she did in Season 9. They made a pact to back each other up and help to gaslight Bethenny and Sonja.

 

8 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Agree! The crux of the problem—to me—is that the rest of them can pretty much meet halfway and sort things out, there’s an ability to negotiate some sort of peace with one another, even if temporarily, where they can all be somewhat-if not happy with each other, at least placated by each other. But I’ve always thought Carole expects things on her terms. She’s pretty much a lone wolf. I don’t believe she’s a compromiser, and I think if you cross her once, that’s it! Basta. You’re dead to her. She seems to have a coldness or aloofness and I’m not sure if anyone ever gets too close. I’m not sure if she’s good at forgiving...

This is especially true for Carole if you try to expose her narrative of Adam loves Carole as being false. She is ride or die for a man - even if it is a man who hasn't claimed her. She wants to portray herself as the woman that men pant after and can't live without. This way when she constantly takes Adam back and takes him on trips, she thinks it hides the fact that he is basically "for hire".

I also believe Carole has had resentment building towards Bethenny & Bravo. Not because of anything Bethenny or Bravo did, but because she needs to keep it in the forefront that Carolyn Bessette was/is her BFF. Carole - Season 5 & 6 - even being Heather's close friend - she still kept the Carolyn Bessette BFF legacy alive. Carole chose to attach herself to Bethenny like a barnacle on a boat for seasons 7, 8, & 9 - Carole was more known as Bethenny's BFF not Carolyn's BFF and she hated that. This is why Carole will continue to appear on psychic shows so that Carolyn can come through from the other side.

[hoodooznoodooz]

14 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Or that being around Bethenny is like finding glass in your milkshake.

Cleaning my screen now, thanks to you. ? 

[CatMomma]

8 hours ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Rape is grossly underreported.  Full stop. False accusations are rare, and no one is obliged to be polite about the opposite proposition because - maybe on Mars that’s a reality-based assertion, but not on this planet.

I look at it this way.  Name a crime where the victim is immediately under suspicion or believed to be lying.  I can think of one.  Rape. 

Name a violent crime where the perpetrator is given a light sentence because the victim was drunk or the sentence may ruin the perpetrators life.  Again,  I can think of one. 

I am not ok with bringing up false allegations hurting real rape victims,  because we never hear that about other victims of crime. That is what "believe women" means.  Believe they are the victim,  just like any other crime. 

But,  I also cannot stand someone using the #metoo movement as a means to get sympathy in a reality show fight. 

What Bethenny said is so ingrained in our culture,  it's almost understandable.  People who have actually been victims repeat it. 

Carole,  on the other hand,  used a very serious hashtag, and compared it to Bethenny saying some mean things. She did not experience the equivalent of sexual assault or bullying at the hands of Bethenny. Anyone who has experienced either would be pissed at the comparison. 

And that is my soapbox moment! I honestly meant this to be a one paragraph reply.  Oops. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by CatMomma

[hoodooznoodooz]

14 hours ago, film noire said:

No, the comment Bethenny made about the Murder Mystery character included a very cruel and low-rent jab at Anthony being dead (iirc, "a know it all politician in vintage clothing with a dead husband").  

Jesus,  Frankel is foul -- who turns somebody's dead spouse into a bitchy joke?  She's just a Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.

I think you're referring to my post (I'm the only one who posted about this in the last fifteen pages, I think).

If you are referring to my post,  I did not say women never make/report false accusations of rape. I took issue with Frankel saying she had read "many stories of women falsely accusing men of rape".  Those stories are rare, not many.

I also (since we're back on Frankel's crap about this issue)  have problems with the second half of her comment:  "The women bending the truth drown out the voices of the women who really need to be heard now and forever." I could ham-handedly try to explain why that comment is toxic,  but instead, I'm just going to quote Glosswitch, who puts it perfectly in a column about a woman (named Beale) who levied false rape accusations:  

"There’s no common pattern of women inventing tales of rape in order to live a life of “bogus victimhood”. Yet when one woman does this, all women are expected to pay the price. I, for one, refuse to. If there were thousands of Beales out there, there’s little doubt in my mind that we’d know about it. But there aren’t. Right now there’s only one, which is why we know her name. Meanwhile the names of most rapists will be forgotten (if they’re ever known at all). One woman’s lies do not justify the discrediting of all future rape victims. Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking for a way to make rape appear far more rare than it actually is. I can’t help feeling those people are the ones we should treat with the most suspicion of all."

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jemma-beale-woman-lie-about-rape-ten-years-in-prison-not-all-woman-liars-not-all-men-rapists-a7912766.html

 It means that (per Frankel)  Carole longs to be, once again, around Bethenny's age (interesting, no? Because even as Frankel age-shamed, she still managed to make her own age a desirable one).

Oh my god, of course not!

Twiddling thumbs is far too active for Carole's aging bones.  At 54, women like Carole (aka old hags) must remain hidden at home, Miss Havisham-like,  keeping their terrifying visages away from society so as not to scare children, random animals, and men on Viagra.

I will never like Carole's pigtails, or Carole in pigtails riding on handlebars, or what I see as affectations on her part, or her treatment of Jules (all endlessly documented in her forum)  but she was  absolutely age-shamed by Frankel. She was also work-shamed.  And ex-lover shamed. And "yer husband is dead - haha!" shamed. And womb-shamed.  The only thing Frankel didn't attack or mock was Baby. (Give it time.)

What @Mozelle said! 

Another superb post. Especially the Birkin part. 

[KungFuBunny]

33 minutes ago, CatMomma said:

I look at it this way.  Name a crime where the victim is immediately under suspicion or believed to be lying.  I can think of one.  Rape. 

Name a violent crime where the perpetrator is given a light sentence because the victim was drunk or the sentence may ruin the perpetrators life.  Again,  I can think of one. 

I am not ok with bringing up false allegations hurting real rape victims,  because we never hear that about other victims of crime. That is what "believe women" means.  Believe they are the victim,  just like any other crime. 

But,  I also cannot stand someone using the #metoo movement as a means to get sympathy in a reality show fight. 

What Bethenny said is so ingrained in our culture,  it's almost understandable.  People who have actually been victims repeat it. 

Carole,  on the other hand,  used a very serious hashtag, and compared it to Bethenny saying some mean things. She did not experience the equivalent of sexual assault or bullying at the hands of Bethenny. Anyone who has experienced either would be pissed at the comparison. 

And that is my soapbox moment! I honestly meant this to be a one paragraph reply.  Oops. 

Preach Catmomma, preach!

Not only do I understand Dorindish, I also understand CatMommaese

[jaync]

Quote

Dorinda is just pissed about Sonja planting stories in the news.

What exactly were these supposedly horrible stories that were being planted? I don't recall anybody ever saying.

Quote

And maybe stay off social media.

Why?

Quote

She's just a Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.

[Gem 10]

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

A know it all about politics?  Check.  Vintage clothing?  Check.  Dead husband?  Check.

Who turns a dead spouse into a low-rent bitchy joke?  That could've been me, too.

Who turns a dead spouse into a book and being a cool dating widow into another one?  That might be some other Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.  

I happen to think they both make nasty comments, but I'm not about to get my panties all in a twist about it.  Because like Sonja with a sexy J, I go commando.    :-D

At least you’re cooler than the rest of us today.  You’re right about the dead spouse book.  The title, I didn’t get.  What remains what?  Her life after his death?  You mean there’s another book about being single?  I can’t imagine what she could write about.  Go and do a marathon?

Edited September 4, 2018 by Gem 10

[walnutqueen]

47 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

At least you’re cooler than the rest of us today.

Yeah.  I'm cool; not, like, uncool.  Or at least part of me is.  But then, I've never needed a snatch guard (sorry, Countess, you'll have to do your Community Service hours elsewhere).   ;-)

Will Sonja have a Basic Instinct moment in Round 3?  Because I've been expecting it since she showed up in a short dress.  She's about due for another "wardrobe malfunction".

[film noire]

3 hours ago, CatMomma said:

I look at it this way.  Name a crime where the victim is immediately under suspicion or believed to be lying.  I can think of one.  Rape. 

Name a violent crime where the perpetrator is given a light sentence because the victim was drunk or the sentence may ruin the perpetrators life.  Again,  I can think of one. 

I am not ok with bringing up false allegations hurting real rape victims,  because we never hear that about other victims of crime. That is what "believe women" means.  Believe they are the victim,  just like any other crime. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by film noire

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

Yeah.  I'm cool; not, like, uncool.  Or at least part of me is.  But then, I've never needed a snatch guard (sorry, Countess, you'll have to do your Community Service hours elsewhere).   ;-)

Will Sonja have a Basic Instinct moment in Round 3?  Because I've been expecting it since she showed up in a short dress.  She's about due for another "wardrobe malfunction".

Absolutely.  She crossed her legs last week, and the husband yells “WOAh”.   I said “she’s a tramp”, but a lovable tramp.  He can’t wait for tomorrow nite, haha.

[Normades]

3 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

The title, I didn’t get.  What remains what?

I haven't read the book, but I always assumed it came from the Wordsworth poem "Splendor in the Grass."  Maybe someone who has read it can shed some light.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Absolutely.  She crossed her legs last week, and the husband yells “WOAh”.   I said “she’s a tramp”, but a lovable tramp.  He can’t wait for tomorrow nite, haha.

Your husband sounds like a real Gem (or a 10) if he watches this shitshow with you.  Or,  maybe he's just an "operator". 

{See, I turn a LIVE husband into a cheap punchline, too!}   :-D

Of course, I'm just a bitter and jealous thrift shop tote bag full of syphilitic chancres.    But I OWN it [/Rinna], GODDAMMIT! [/Kim Richards]

Is it Wednesday yet?  I'm positively exhausted, with all these dead horses that keep begging for a beating.

Edited September 5, 2018 by walnutqueen

[Gem 10]

19 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Your husband sounds like a real Gem (or a 10) if he watches this shitshow with you.  Or,  maybe he's just an "operator". 

{See, I turn a LIVE husband into a cheap punchline, too!}   :-D

Of course, I'm just a bitter and jealous thrift shop tote bag full of syphilitic chancres.    But I OWN it [/Rinna], GODDAMMIT! [/Kim Richards]

Is it Wednesday yet?  I'm positively exhausted, with all these dead horses that keep begging for a beating.

Haha .. he’s got no choice.  He’s actually an all sports guy, but he likes the N.Y. Housewives and 90 day Fiancé, believe it or not.  In turn, I have to watch golf all weekend.  I have to admit tho, he does not like Andy or Dorinda.

[walnutqueen]

1 minute ago, Gem 10 said:

Haha .. he’s got no choice.  He’s actually an all sports guy, but he likes the N.Y. Housewives and 90 day Fiancé, believe it or not.  In turn, I have to watch golf all weekend.  I have to admit tho, he does not like Andy or Dorinda.

A man of some discernment.  I suppose that means I'm expected to make allowances for his sports affliction?  Le sigh.  ;-)

[Rosiejuliemom]

4 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

At least you’re cooler than the rest of us today.  You’re right about the dead spouse book.  The title, I didn’t get.  What remains what?  Her life after his death?  You mean there’s another book about being single?  I can’t imagine what she could write about.  Go and do a marathon?

I actually thought the title was quite poignant. What remains after the loss of a huge part of your life?

14 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Who turns a dead spouse into a book

Joyce Carol Oates, C.S. Lewis, and Rob Sheffield, among others.

[Gem 10]

2 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I actually thought the title was quite poignant. What remains after the loss of a huge part of your life?

Joyce Carol Oates, C.S. Lewis, and Rob Sheffield, among others.

It’s probably therapeutic for a widow.

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 minute ago, Gem 10 said:

It’s probably therapeutic for a widow.

I think so, too.

After my grandmother died, I started keeping a journal. It helped as there were things I would write down that I wouldn't ever say out loud.

[biakbiak]

12 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I actually thought the title was quite poignant. What remains after the loss of a huge part of your life?

Joyce Carol Oates, C.S. Lewis, and Rob Sheffield, among others.

Joan Didion’s The Year of Magical Thinking is a masterpiece. As you said memoirs about spouse/loved ones dying is an extremely popular sub genre. Nothing surprising to me about Carole processing her loss through the written word. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by biakbiak

[Frances]

20 hours ago, film noire said:

No, the comment Bethenny made about the Murder Mystery character included a very cruel and low-rent jab at Anthony being dead (iirc, "a know it all politician in vintage clothing with a dead husband").  

Jesus,  Frankel is foul -- who turns somebody's dead spouse into a bitchy joke?  She's just a Birkin bag full of syphilitic chancres.

I think you're referring to my post (I'm the only one who posted about this in the last fifteen pages, I think).

If you are referring to my post,  I did not say women never make/report false accusations of rape. I took issue with Frankel saying she had read "many stories of women falsely accusing men of rape".  Those stories are rare, not many.

I also (since we're back on Frankel's crap about this issue)  have problems with the second half of her comment:  "The women bending the truth drown out the voices of the women who really need to be heard now and forever." I could ham-handedly try to explain why that comment is toxic,  but instead, I'm just going to quote Glosswitch, who puts it perfectly in a column about a woman (named Beale) who levied false rape accusations:  

"There’s no common pattern of women inventing tales of rape in order to live a life of “bogus victimhood”. Yet when one woman does this, all women are expected to pay the price. I, for one, refuse to. If there were thousands of Beales out there, there’s little doubt in my mind that we’d know about it. But there aren’t. Right now there’s only one, which is why we know her name. Meanwhile the names of most rapists will be forgotten (if they’re ever known at all). One woman’s lies do not justify the discrediting of all future rape victims. Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking for a way to make rape appear far more rare than it actually is. I can’t help feeling those people are the ones we should treat with the most suspicion of all."

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jemma-beale-woman-lie-about-rape-ten-years-in-prison-not-all-woman-liars-not-all-men-rapists-a7912766.html

 It means that (per Frankel)  Carole longs to be, once again, around Bethenny's age (interesting, no? Because even as Frankel age-shamed, she still managed to make her own age a desirable one).

Oh my god, of course not!

Twiddling thumbs is far too active for Carole's aging bones.  At 54, women like Carole (aka old hags) must remain hidden at home, Miss Havisham-like,  keeping their terrifying visages away from society so as not to scare children, random animals, and men on Viagra.

I will never like Carole's pigtails, or Carole in pigtails riding on handlebars, or what I see as affectations on her part, or her treatment of Jules (all endlessly documented in her forum)  but she was  absolutely age-shamed by Frankel. She was also work-shamed.  And ex-lover shamed. And "yer husband is dead - haha!" shamed. And womb-shamed.  The only thing Frankel didn't attack or mock was Baby. (Give it time.)

What @Mozelle said! 

 

I agree that Bethenny's comments about false reports of rape are horrible and irresponsible. These kinds of vague and anecdotal references to false reports seriously skew the actual statistical evidence, and it's precisely the culture of default distrust of women that this kind of commentary embodies  -- not false reports  -- that makes things difficult for victims and women in general. Someone with Bethenny's platform around women in crisis has even more of an obligation than everyone else to know better.

I don't think Bethenny's comments about Carole's age imply that 45 is better than 55. I sense that Bethenny, like you, sees phoniness in Carole's coy and "cool" girlish affectations. Carole has always tried to portray herself as youthful, but it all seemed to intensify and morph this season. I don't care what anyone wears, but I did notice that Carole's clothes suddenly became not just youthful but ostentatiously youthful. Her flip "I'm just so over Adam" thing, coupled with the fact that she could not stop talking about him felt really inauthentic from an adult woman -- psychologically healthy adults should care and be sad when a real relationship ends. And I think Bethenny imagined -- accurately or not -- that these changes had something to do with Carole's relationship with Tinsley (who is around 45). The way I see it, Bethenny's reference to Carole's wanting to be 45 was a dig, but it was more about Bethenny's perception that Carole rejects being a grown woman and has become fake. Carole has always seemed deeply insecure about aging, and I'm willing to believe that Bethenny was hurt and upset enough to try to take a cheap shot at what she knew her frenemy was insecure about. But I don't think she was saying there's something objectively negative about 55 or objectively good about 45.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Frances

[Jel]

I'm calling out Carole's mental-health shaming!

[Frances]

36 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I actually thought the title was quite poignant. What remains after the loss of a huge part of your life?

Joyce Carol Oates, C.S. Lewis, and Rob Sheffield, among others.

I agree there's nothing distasteful about writing a memoir about loss of a loved one, and plenty of fine writers have done it.

I don't think someone whose main writing accomplishment is one memoir has much credibility as a writer. Memoirs can be very good, but especially in this case can give false impressions about the author's skills. Carole was in a very interesting situation, which would make a marketable story no matter who wrote it. I haven't read the book, but believe everyone who says it was well written (though her blogs are so badly written, I suspect she had a lot of help with WR, whether from a ghostwriter or an interventionist editor). What else has she written that demonstrates skill? Can she write about something other than herself?  Even the cookbook with Adam was a narrative about Carole: Junk-food girl meets cute vegan guy and gets converted! That idea assumes that everyone must be interested in more tales of the kind of girl Carole is and her madcap life. It shows zero appreciation for the fact that a book needs to connect with a real, viable readership.

Book titles are hugely important to marketing. They're very often written by the publisher.

[breezy424]

Well, why did Beth 'pick' 45 for the age Carole wants to be?  If someone is going to pick an age, why 45?  Is that so much better than 54 or whatever age Carole is?  Forty five is still as middle aged as well as 54.  What was the point, except to say that Carole is 'older'.  It was age shaming to me because why even include it?  She could have simple said that in her opinion Carole was acting like she was seven.

[Rosiejuliemom]

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

That idea assumes that everyone must be interested in more tales of the kind of girl Carole is and her madcap life. It shows zero appreciation for the fact that a book needs to connect with a real, viable readership.

I guess I don't necessarily see it the same way. Stephen King tends to set a lot of his books in places that he has lived (Maine, Colorado, Florida), a lot of his characters have been writers or held the same jobs as him. Hell, when he was going through addiction problems, drug and alcohol addiction was a very common theme in his works.

Now, I am in no way saying that Carole is as talented a writer or as prolific as King. I am just using him as an example of how a lot of authors draw on themselves and their life experiences for their work. I can't really fault Carole for doing the same. Especially since her published works are a memoir, a collection of blogs, and a roman a clef. Even the cookbook would have been non-fiction.

As always, MMV.

[Jel]

That's what I thought too, Breezy! Why 45? I mean, dream bigger, Carole! Everyone knows 24 is the best "youth" age! (Young enough to have the youthful advantages, old enough to either know better or how to use them) ;)

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, Jel said:

That's what I thought too, Breezy! Why 45? I mean, dream bigger, Carole! Everyone knows 24 is the best "youth" age! (Young enough to have the youthful advantages, old enough to either know better or how to use them) ;)

It was Bethenny’s comment how could Carole “dream bigger”?

[Jel]

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

It was Bethenny’s comment how could Carole “dream bigger”?

It was mostly a joke, Biakbiak. (Pointing to winky face above)

But, if there's a grain of seriousness in there, let's say it's this:  Bethenny said, "I know you want to be forty-five..." which implies (to me) that Carole has expressed, to her once-friend, a desire to be that particular age. Maybe it was a good time for her. 

[ChelleGame]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Joan Didion’s The Year of Magical Thinking is a masterpiece. As you said memoirs about spouse/loved ones dying is an extremely popular sub genre. Nothing surprising to me about Carole processing her loss through the written word. 

I read Carole's book the year it came out. Along with The Year of Magical Thinking and Pretty Is What Changes. 

I'd just experienced a sudden death and was out of my mind with grief. I could see the point when other people didn't want to talk about it anymore so I read away the pain, wrote a little and found someone to talk to. I didn't know anything about Carole (at the time) but all three books were recommended by a few people and all were beautiful in their own way. Didion's is a masterpiece and yards above the rest because of her skill level as a writer but Carole's book helped me at the time because it was honest. It was honest to her experience and that came through. The title was poignant and the original cover art was also very touching.

It's so strange to watch this show with all the screaming and hatred and then turn to Great British Baking Challenge which is all bunnies and rainbows and I love it.

The screeching, though, at these reunions. Holy smokes. All of their voices stay on the ceiling. Grating.

I'm late to this franchise. Still can't decide on all of them because I don't know the long history but I never again want to hear about another person's digestive issues let alone see it. WTF?

Edited September 5, 2018 by ChelleGame

[smores]

I generally have an age that I "feel" that doesn't correspond to my actual age.  When I'm not thinking, if I'm asked my age, I can often spit out the number that gets stuck in my brain.  For some reason, 23 was one that seemed right for a while, and I was at a dr's office checking in for something one time, with my husband (sitting out of sight from the receptionist), she asked how old I was, I think I was 27 or 28 at the time, and since I was filling out paperwork at the same time, I just automatically answered with the first thing that popped into my head, which was 23.  My husband, all incredulous yells out "No you're NOT! You're 28!"  The receptionist couldn't stop giggling for 15 minutes, and they never did believe that I wasn't trying to lie about my age.  I'm honestly not, I have no problem telling people how old I actually am, I just can't spit out the number that pops into my brain sometimes.  LOL!

So, I could see Carol saying something along the lines of feeling 45.  I'm currently 41 and my brain is back at 35.  It's not that I want to BE in my 30s, because I don't care, it's just that's where I "feel" myself at age wise.

[Rap541]

27 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I guess I don't necessarily see it the same way. Stephen King tends to set a lot of his books in places that he has lived (Maine, Colorado, Florida), a lot of his characters have been writers or held the same jobs as him. Hell, when he was going through addiction problems, drug and alcohol addiction was a very common theme in his works.

I actually would argue that King's putting his addiction struggle on display thru his characters is part of the appeal of his work because it reads so true to people who are struggling with those problems. He also brings those small town settings to life in a palpable way. 

But this is me fangirling a little :)

What Remains is a good book. It might be the only good book in her, and honestly, thats not a crime. It's still a book, a popular book that will likely hold up for years. But Harper Lee didn't do herself any favors with the second book and I think Carole might be the sort of author to fall into that category.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

I actually would argue that King's putting his addiction struggle on display thru his characters is part of the appeal of his work because it reads so true to people who are struggling with those problems. He also brings those small town settings to life in a palpable way. 

But this is me fangirling a little :)

What Remains is a good book. It might be the only good book in her, and honestly, thats not a crime. It's still a book, a popular book that will likely hold up for years. But Harper Lee didn't do herself any favors with the second book and I think Carole might be the sort of author to fall into that category.

Oh, you're absolutely right -- lots of good writers put bits of themselves and their lives into their characters and stories. But the same writers also often focus on relatable situations, like loss of loved ones or addiction. Or they manage to make some fantastic situation -- like marrying a Prince and hanging out with the Kennedys -- somehow relatable.

I don't see anything relatable about a junk-food gal who never cooks, doesn't know how, and isn't even learning how, but got into kale smoothies for a minute because of her boyfriend. Also, who would buy that book? Women who store their sweaters in their ovens and don't want to learn to cook, but want to date a hot chef? Hot vegan guys looking to date junk food girls? I am belabouring the point, but I think the success of WR has helped Carole to fool herself into believing that she is compelling -- as opposed to the particular situation she was in. 

[VedaPierce]

8 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Haha .. he’s got no choice.  He’s actually an all sports guy, but he likes the N.Y. Housewives and 90 day Fiancé, believe it or not.  In turn, I have to watch golf all weekend.  I have to admit tho, he does not like Andy or Dorinda.

Mine totally hooked on 90 Day! And he's a news junkie. So it's either Mueller or 90 Day fiancé. Lol strange what piques peoples' interests...but The Bethenny Vs. Carole match is too low even for him ;)

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, VedaPierce said:

Mine totally hooked on 90 Day! And he's a news junkie. So it's either Mueller or 90 Day fiancé. Lol strange what piques peoples' interests...but The Bethenny Vs. Carole match is too low even for him ;)

Clever man.  AND he has standards (unlike some of us who cannot seem to look away from the traffic accident on the freeway that is B vs C!)   ;-)

And now you've managed to get me second guessing my decision not to watch 90 Day Fiancé.  GODDAMMIT!

Edited September 5, 2018 by walnutqueen

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, VedaPierce said:

Mine totally hooked on 90 Day! And he's a news junkie. So it's either Mueller or 90 Day fiancé. Lol strange what piques peoples' interests...but The Bethenny Vs. Carole match is too low even for him ;)

Lol, and mine can’t believe how stupid the guys are to go out of the country to find a wife.  Guess they want a subservient wife.  And, how about the girl with the baby? Lol.  On the NY Housewives, he laughs that people would pay good money to see the Countess do her act as she can’t even sing, haha.  It’s all good.  We laugh our arses off.

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Lol, and mine can’t believe how stupid the guys are to go out of the country to find a wife.  Guess they want a subservient wife.  And, how about the girl with the baby? Lol.  On the NY Housewives, he laughs that people would pay good money to see the Countess do her act as she can’t even sing, haha.  It’s all good.  We laugh our arses off.

[Gem 10]

4 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Lol, and mine can’t believe how stupid the guys are to go out of the country to find a wife.  Guess they want a subservient wife.  And, how about the girl with the baby? Lol.  On the NY Housewives, he laughs that people would pay good money to see the Countess do her act as she can’t even sing, haha.  It’s all good.  We laugh our arses off.

 

Hey Walnut .. you up already?  See what u r missing?  90 Day .. another train wreck you can’t stop watching.