Booklady1017 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 On 6/12/2019 at 9:45 PM, Abstract said: I said slide projector. Ugh. But I had a really good first two rounds. I thought my kid was the only person scared of butterflies, but apparently it's a thing. New champ is very good-looking. Nice cheekbones. This might sound shallow but I partly want him to stay because he’s great eye candy. On 6/12/2019 at 10:40 PM, suebee12 said: I have never seen those! Those must have been in the late 40's? Just looked at ebay and it says these were circa 1960? You had to change it everytime you wanted to see another picture? I think I got my first ViewMaster in the early 50's but always had the reels...lots and lots of reels. I know, because my kids had them and they were born in the early '70's. And I showed my son the answer and he knew right away the correct question!! I had one and was born in the mid 70s. 1 Link to comment
Booklady1017 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 11:39 AM, Trey said: LOL That was Mr.Trey too. I had nothing except some vague thoughts of movie cameras. Once he said Viewfinder I knew he was right but we didn't come up with the right name of View Master until right before it was revealed. I did get the ts's of Wellington and mesmerize. I liked the guy in the middle. I'll have to quit jinxing players. I got the Wellington one too, but having British family helps. On 6/13/2019 at 7:59 PM, Browncoat said: I had to think for a few seconds about tonight's FJ, but came up with it in plenty of time to write it down. FUBAR made me laugh, though. SNAFU would have been a good guess, too. Shout-out to all of us who said Barrymore for the Newman question a while back! And Alex is correct -- it's much more fun when the game's not a runaway. LOL on Fubar but FJ was a TS for me. 2 Link to comment
AuntiePam June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said: Wow, mileage really varies on the eye candy issue. I thought they both looked like someone asked central casting for a frat-bro type. No slam on them - I'm sure they're very nice guys. Also, I hadn't been paying very close attention this week, but did it seem like EJ's mouth was hanging open a lot? Again, he didn't especially bug me and I'm sure he's a perfectly great person, I just noticed that a lot today. I think it's because we're accustomed to seeing "normal"-looking people on the show. You know, people who look like our partners, co-workers, relatives. E.J. doesn't trip my trigger but the guy in the middle today -- I wouldn't have minded seeing him again. E.J. reminds me of a cross between two performers on Saturday Night Live -- Colin Jost and Alex Moffat. (Alex is the one who impersonates Eric Trump.) 4 Link to comment
Booklady1017 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 8:59 PM, SHD said: I thought it was funny that EJ wagged his finger at the woman who prevented the runaway game. But I bet some people hated that behavior. I find EJ funny and entertaining! 3 Link to comment
Abstract June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said: Wow, mileage really varies on the eye candy issue. I thought they both looked like someone asked central casting for a frat-bro type. No slam on them - I'm sure they're very nice guys. Also, I hadn't been paying very close attention this week, but did it seem like EJ's mouth was hanging open a lot? Again, he didn't especially bug me and I'm sure he's a perfectly great person, I just noticed that a lot today. What I noticed was that he was doing that closed mouth, nervous, running his tongue along his teeth thing that James did a lot. And I'm not saying you're wrong about looking like they're straight outta central casting. But they're still fun to watch. @AuntiePam, you are right. Jeopardy is normally "cast" with regular folks, so the pretty people stand out. Edited June 15, 2019 by Abstract 3 Link to comment
Booklady1017 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 8:59 PM, suebee12 said: I like EJ, but I miss them going for the larger numbers first! Think how much money they could have collected!! I knew that I would know nothing in Rappers(and I was correct...zero for me!) Not sure why, but FJ was so easy for me....It just seemed right. BUT and a big BUT, I miss James! and his way of playing and betting!😥 I miss James too but EJ is helping get through this. On 6/13/2019 at 9:51 PM, AuntiePam said: I got the TS of Iris, for Iris Murdoch, without having read any of her books but seeing her on library shelves. Thought "glitch" for FJ was almost too easy. I was second-guessing myself. I'm with those who could picture a ViewMaster but couldn't come up with the name. My family didn't have one, but a traveling aunt did, and I looked at it whenever we visited her. I got Iris too, being a librarian. 1 1 Link to comment
Booklady1017 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 22 hours ago, Fex said: Yes, I was one of those who said Barrymore, too! I got Wiz Khalifa because my trivia team's name is Quiz Khalifa. I knew glitch, it wasn't a guess, but I have no idea how!! I have no memory to go along with the fact. Maybe it's been on Jeopardy before? I said Barrymore too for the FJ a few weeks ago and did surprisingly better than I thought in the rap category. 2 Link to comment
Booklady1017 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Abstract said: Whoa. I don't think there have ever been TWO such stunning examples of male pulchritude on the Jeopardy stage at the same time. The showrunners should have planned that better, because only one could win. Hope E.J. packed some suits for his next trip to Jeopardy. I'm not a fan of the casual look. Oh, right, there was a game going on. Not a very impressive game, clues left uncovered and a plethora of mistakes. I vacillated between polio and smallpox for FJ and would have gotten the wrong one. I thought that abolitionist question was really a Mickey Mouse clue since they were spotting us the first name, and then the lady missed it! I'm guessing E.J. has read that Secrets of the Jeopardy Buzzer book (or whatever it's called). He does the Holzhauer/Rutter stance. I was surprised the lady got the Frederick Douglass question wrong. 2 Link to comment
Bastet June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Katy M said: I was vacillating between polio and smallpox and ultimately picked polio, because I was born in 1972 and got the polio vaccine, but not the smallpox as they had stopped giving it. I was born not long after that, and I got the smallpox vaccine (which became kind of amusing decades later as an X-Files fan given the conspiracy storyline about what, in addition to inoculation, the vaccine was used for; I had a brief moment of giving my scar the side-eye). It had fallen off the recommended list, and was no longer part of the routine vaccination protocol, but it was still available. Between basketball pre-emptions and not being home, I've missed much of this week, and the archive isn't updated, so I decided to go ahead and spoil myself reading here and just get back on track next week - until I read it's another Teen Tournament. Bleh. But better than Kids Week, so I'll probably still tune in at least half the time. 1 Link to comment
Clanstarling June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 12 hours ago, Abstract said: Hope E.J. packed some suits for his next trip to Jeopardy. I'm not a fan of the casual look. I'm not a fan of the formal look, so his casual wear was the first time I thought he was attractive. 10 hours ago, AuntiePam said: I think it's because we're accustomed to seeing "normal"-looking people on the show. You know, people who look like our partners, co-workers, relatives. E.J. doesn't trip my trigger but the guy in the middle today -- I wouldn't have minded seeing him again. Oddly, I have no recall at all of the guy in the middle. So clearly, he didn't trip my trigger. LOL. I got polio instead of smallpox due to some faulty personal math. Sigh... I kind of like my smallpox scar, makes me part of a tribe, so to speak. Though I vividly remember when I got it and the progression it made until it became a scar (I was a kid who liked to observe icky things) 2 3 Link to comment
zoey1996 June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 10 hours ago, Booklady1017 said: I got Iris too, being a librarian. I'm not sure how I got Iris, haven't seen the movie or read anything she wrote that I recall. 8 hours ago, Bastet said: I was born not long after that, and I got the smallpox vaccine (which became kind of amusing decades later as an X-Files fan given the conspiracy storyline about what, in addition to inoculation, the vaccine was used for; I had a brief moment of giving my scar the side-eye). It had fallen off the recommended list, and was no longer part of the routine vaccination protocol, but it was still available. The smallpox vaccine scar was also a plot point on Outlander, the scar being the Devil's Mark. 3 Link to comment
Abstract June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 The most plausible explanation I saw for Becky's miss on the Frederick Douglas clue is that she was distracted by the "Is God dead?" part, which led her to Nietzsche. I feel bad for her, also her interview which was awkward (80s bands on their way down? Yikes). 1 3 Link to comment
Mystery Author June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 Quote But better than Kids Week, so I'll probably still tune in at least half the time. I have a [growing] pile of good books to read. Not to mention books to write :-) Nothing against kids. Really. Honestly. Abso-bloody-lutely. Cross my heart and hope... LOL scar on Outlander. I had forgotten about that. Did I tell y'all I knew Diana Gabaldon before she was Diana Gabaldon? 2 7 Link to comment
chessiegal June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 I couldn't believe sign language was a DD, and it was a miss. 7 Link to comment
Mindthinkr June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 1 hour ago, chessiegal said: I couldn't believe sign language was a DD, and it was a miss. I can’t believe I got it. Last night was just an ok night. Too much 🍷, but I did get FJ. I’m happy for any and all man eye candy. 2 3 Link to comment
chessiegal June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 I guess living in the DC area since 1978 and being familiar with Gallaudet University could have made sign language just one of those things you know. 5 Link to comment
Clanstarling June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Abstract said: The most plausible explanation I saw for Becky's miss on the Frederick Douglas clue is that she was distracted by the "Is God dead?" part, which led her to Nietzsche. I feel bad for her, also her interview which was awkward (80s bands on their way down? Yikes). Before I read several posts that connected "is God dead" with Nietszche, I assumed that what happened is something that happens to me (I call it my fuzzy logic search, though I don't think I'm using it correctly) - anyway, sometimes I see a first name, and my mind fills in a last name that fits - regardless of any other data. It just slips out. This has, upon occasion, been embarrassing. Edited June 15, 2019 by Clanstarling 2 1 Link to comment
Toothbrush June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 2 hours ago, zoey1996 said: I'm not sure how I got Iris, haven't seen the movie or read anything she wrote that I recall. The smallpox vaccine scar was also a plot point on Outlander, the scar being the Devil's Mark. I remembered the movie because it was the 2nd time Kate Winslet & an older actress were both nominated for Oscars for playing the same character at different ages in the same movie, Titanic being the first. That is the kind of Oscar history/trivia I tend to remember rather than acting dynasties like the Barrymores Newmans I'm going to have to remember the Devil's Mark. One day my family was discussing our smallpox scars, & my husband, older brother, & 1 sister-in-law have them, while my younger brother, sister-in-law, & I do not. My 1 SIL & I are only 6 months apart & evidently at that time pediatricians were going both ways regarding it. Guess hers was for it, and mine (my mother..lol) was not. Anyway, ever since my sister found out that dimples are technically a birth defect, like 35 years ago, she has given me grief about mine, so I will be sure to point our her 'Devil's Mark' as soon as the opportunity presents itself! 1 hour ago, Abstract said: I feel bad for her, also her interview which was awkward (80s bands on their way down? Yikes). My husband & I say we know a band is on the descent when they start playing the non-Vegas casino circuit. 1 hour ago, chessiegal said: I couldn't believe sign language was a DD, and it was a miss. 24 minutes ago, chessiegal said: I guess living in the DC area since 1978 and being familiar with Gallaudet University could have made sign language just one of those things you know. Gallaudet was how I got it, but I'm not sure I would have otherwise. The wording of the clue seemed very convoluted to me, and I noticed that even Alex read it more slowly & carefully than usual. I know Gallaudet because of the murders there several years ago (I'm a true crime junkie) 2 Link to comment
ABay June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 (edited) The word "oral" in the Gaulladet clue totally threw me off. My smallpox scar is on my thigh. Edited June 15, 2019 by ABay Link to comment
peeayebee June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 I wasn't paying attention at the beginning of the sign language clue, but when I saw "manualist" I thought of this guy who called himself a manualist. With this in mind, I was trying to think how to answer when I noticed Gaulladet and figured this DD was actually easier than I thought. 1 Link to comment
Trey June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 53 minutes ago, ABay said: The word "oral" in the Gaulladet clue totally threw me off. Me too, but I did finally get it. Also got the ts of pony. I loved the meerkat category. They are so adorable. Overall it wasn't a good game for me. Too many times I had the answer on the tip of my tongue but it wouldn't come out. I thought the fellow in the middle was pretty good looking. My smallpox vaccine scar has all but disappeared. 2 Link to comment
Browncoat June 15, 2019 Share June 15, 2019 My smallpox scar has pretty much disappeared too, and I even had a booster 25 or so years ago, for a project at work. 1 Link to comment
Kerri Okie June 16, 2019 Share June 16, 2019 I know this is petty, but the more I hear it, the more it bugs me, so I'm going to say it anyway: Does it drive anybody else up the wall when they announce a player's winnings ending in 001 as a singular dollar amount instead of plural? I've been noticing it for months, and sometimes I think I've heard wrong, but it happened twice on Friday. At the top of the show they announced that EJ had a two-day total of fifty-four thousand two hundred one dollar, and then in FJ that Eric had a total of eight thousand one dollar. Last I checked 54,201 and 8001 are both a lot more than one, and therefore should be dollars, not dollar. Or is this some obscure grammar rule I've never heard of? Link to comment
zoey1996 June 16, 2019 Share June 16, 2019 I have never noticed “dollar,” but I went back and listened to both an amount with $1 at the end and one with an even dollar amount, and I don’t think I heard the “s” on dollar(s) on either of them. Is it maybe swallowed up by the applause? Or is it really not enunciated? 1 Link to comment
Abstract June 16, 2019 Share June 16, 2019 @AuntiePam, I just wanted you to know that "trips my trigger" is my new favorite euphemism and I'm stealing it. 1 5 Link to comment
zoey1996 June 16, 2019 Share June 16, 2019 On Saturday evenings, the station that runs Jeopardy! during the week runs a prior season game. Last night was from January 10, 2018, and in a funny coincidence, one of the contestants, the returning champ, also had lepidopterophobia, a fear of butterflies! But now I don't remember which player from this week had that phobia. Also, I was able to puzzle out the FJ, and got it right. 😊 2 Link to comment
Abstract June 16, 2019 Share June 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, zoey1996 said: On Saturday evenings, the station that runs Jeopardy! during the week runs a prior season game. Last night was from January 10, 2018, and in a funny coincidence, one of the contestants, the returning champ, also had lepidopterophobia, a fear of butterflies! But now I don't remember which player from this week had that phobia. Also, I was able to puzzle out the FJ, and got it right. 😊 This week it was EJ. 1 Link to comment
Abstract June 17, 2019 Share June 17, 2019 It's okay to post now, right? Or do we not talk about the Teen Tournament? I'm embarrassed because I had a horrible first round today, leading to a Coryat that wouldn't have been acceptable for a regular game. Bombing out in the pop culture categories did not help me. I'm always impressed at how well-spoken the teens are compared to the ones I know, including the one living in my house. I got FJ, it was Pavlovian. 2 3 Link to comment
Katy M June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Abstract said: It's okay to post now, right? Or do we not talk about the Teen Tournament? I'm embarrassed because I had a horrible first round today, leading to a Coryat that wouldn't have been acceptable for a regular game. Bombing out in the pop culture categories did not help me. I'm always impressed at how well-spoken the teens are compared to the ones I know, including the one living in my house. I got FJ, it was Pavlovian. I did pretty poorly in the first round also. Especially the viral challenges. And Espy awards.. In the second round I did horribly in the good entertainment category, but everything else was fine. Edited June 18, 2019 by Katy M 1 Link to comment
Browncoat June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 I don't think I've ever heard "vague" pronounced quite like that. I get it -- I've read words I'm unfamiliar with and not known how to pronounce them, but that was a very interesting pronunciation. There is more than one Salem in the US. There's even more than one in New England. I wrote down the state, too. 1 6 Link to comment
Katy M June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Browncoat said: I don't think I've ever heard "vague" pronounced quite like that. I get it -- I've read words I'm unfamiliar with and not known how to pronounce them, but that was a very interesting pronunciation. There is more than one Salem in the US. There's even more than one in New England. I wrote down the state, too. I said the state, too. Because there's a Salem, NH. At least he didn't say "vag-you." That probably would have been very embarrassing for him. At a very embarrassingly late age, I realized that the written word awry, was the same word that I was hearing that I thought was spelled arye. And I prounounced the written word "awe-ree." Until a light bulb went off one day. Luckily for me, I never tried to insert aw-ree into a conversation. 6 1 Link to comment
Driad June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Browncoat said: There is more than one Salem in the US. There's even more than one in New England. I wrote down the state, too. Yes, Connecticut and New Hampshire also have towns named Salem. I would have included the state. 1 2 Link to comment
chessiegal June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 I was watching an episode of "Bewitched" this afternoon (don't judge), where Samantha and Darrin visit Salem, MA. When I saw the FJ clue, I was - whoa - spooky! 5 Link to comment
Katy M June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, chessiegal said: I was watching an episode of "Bewitched" this afternoon (don't judge), where Samantha and Darrin visit Salem, MA. When I saw the FJ clue, I was - whoa - spooky! Is that the one where they went back in time and Darrin was put on trial for being a witch because he lit a match? Link to comment
chessiegal June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Katy M said: Is that the one where they went back in time and Darrin was put on trial for being a witch because he lit a match? Yes - such a silly show but I loved it when it originally aired, and still enjoy reruns. 4 Link to comment
Kimmmmmm June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, chessiegal said: I was watching an episode of "Bewitched" this afternoon (don't judge), where Samantha and Darrin visit Salem, MA. When I saw the FJ clue, I was - whoa - spooky! And why would anyone judge? It was a really funny show that still holds up...and pretty much the only sitcom for which the addition of a baby didn't ruin everything!! Edited June 18, 2019 by Kimmmmmm 3 Link to comment
lb60 June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 Tonight, I am as smart as a teenager. Go me! 8 5 Link to comment
Phebemarie June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 There’s also a Salem in Oregon. It’s our capital. 4 Link to comment
peeayebee June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Abstract said: I got FJ, it was Pavlovian. No it wasn't. It was Salem. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.) I hope we all get 5/5 FJs this week. I never thought about it, but I bet koalas have great breath. 6 5 Link to comment
Driad June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Phebemarie said: There’s also a Salem in Oregon. It’s our capital. Yes, and there are several others that are also not in New England. 1 Link to comment
opus June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, lb60 said: Tonight, I am as smart as a teenager. Go me! But are you smarter than a fifth grader? 5 1 Link to comment
lb60 June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 32 minutes ago, opus said: But are you smarter than a fifth grader? Depends on the day. ;-) 5 2 Link to comment
Bastet June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 I just had this on as background noise while I cleaned, but it seemed like there weren't too many TS. (Of course, if the average clue was as wait, is this a trick question? easy as FJ, that's faint praise.) I was rooting for Stephanie, but Teagan was my second choice, so good for her. Like most posters, I included the state along with the city in my FJ answer (maybe because Salem, NH is the only New England Salem I've been to). But with the category spotting New England, the clue only asking for the city, and it being FJ, I can't object to none of them getting that specific. In a non-FJ clue, I'd have expected a BMS prompt, though. I don't love the Teen Tournament, but I don't avoid it like the plague as I do Kids Week, and - in theory if not necessarily in execution - I like the fact there are two this year because they had that many great contestants among those who tried out. With everything going on in the world, a larger-than-average pool of teens with the interest and ability to compete on J! makes me smile. 9 Link to comment
GenerationX June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 I thought I was going to get hammered by three teenagers when they started in the viral category. Apparently, I'm a few years away from getting the references (according to my kids, "normies" don't pick up on these things until years after they've gone out of vogue for kids). The rest of the categories were easier, and FJ was an instaget. This group of three kids were quick, and I expect to see all of them in the next round. 3 Link to comment
Toothbrush June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 The MiniToothbrushes watched while I was in & out of the room and on the phone, but what I did see of the 3 contestants was pretty impressive. FJ was an instaget. I wasn't aware of any other Salem in New England so I learned something new. Always a good thing. 3 Link to comment
kathyk2 June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Bastet said: I just had this on as background noise while I cleaned, but it seemed like there weren't too many TS. (Of course, if the average clue was as wait, is this a trick question? easy as FJ, that's faint praise.) I was rooting for Stephanie, but Teagan was my second choice, so good for her. Like most posters, I included the state along with the city in my FJ answer (maybe because Salem, NH is the only New England Salem I've been to). But with the category spotting New England, the clue only asking for the city, and it being FJ, I can't object to none of them getting that specific. In a non-FJ clue, I'd have expected a BMS prompt, though. I don't love the Teen Tournament, but I don't avoid it like the plague as I do Kids Week, and - in theory if not necessarily in execution - I like the fact there are two this year because they had that many great contestants among those who tried out. With everything going on in the world, a larger-than-average pool of teens with the interest and ability to compete on J! makes me smile. They should have had the kids be more specific because Final Jeopardy referred to Salem Mass not Salem New Hampshire. I think they had the second Teen Tournament in order to get more contestants in the Tournament of Champions thanks to James. 1 Link to comment
Bastet June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, kathyk2 said: Final Jeopardy referred to Salem Mass not Salem New Hampshire. Yes, I know. And the MA Salem is all but certainly what each of the three contestants meant with their "What is Salem?" answer given the wording of the clue. I simply said that I, being even more familiar via personal experience with another New England city named Salem, specified a state, but didn't expect the contestants to, in a FJ, be punished (what, universally?) for not doing the same. 1 Link to comment
Katy M June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 I found this clip on YouTube about the game of Life that we were discussing after an FJ a couple of weeks ago. I found the suicide square. I saw an intemperance square, but not a temperance. Pretty interesting 5 hours ago, Bastet said: but didn't expect the contestants to, in a FJ, be punished (what, universally?) for not doing the same. The first contestant to answer, the middle one, did put the state. 7 hours ago, Bastet said: I don't love the Teen Tournament, but I don't avoid it like the plague as I do Kids Week, and - in theory if not necessarily in execution - I like the fact there are two this year because they had that many great contestants among those who tried out. With everything going on in the world, a larger-than-average pool of teens with the interest and ability to compete on J! makes me smile. I also think they're doing it because Alex has said on multiple occasions that the Teen Tournament is his favorite. They're giving him an extra one in case it's his last year. So, it kind of makes me sad. 5 Link to comment
Clanstarling June 18, 2019 Share June 18, 2019 12 hours ago, Katy M said: I said the state, too. Because there's a Salem, NH. At least he didn't say "vag-you." That probably would have been very embarrassing for him. At a very embarrassingly late age, I realized that the written word awry, was the same word that I was hearing that I thought was spelled arye. And I prounounced the written word "awe-ree." Until a light bulb went off one day. Luckily for me, I never tried to insert aw-ree into a conversation. When I was a kid, I always pronounced "scarab beetle" as "scare red beetle" and I don't even have the spelling to blame for that one. LOL. 10 hours ago, Phebemarie said: There’s also a Salem in Oregon. It’s our capital. Didn't even dawn on me, even while reading about the other Salems. Duh! I mean, it's not like I haven't stayed in Salem a bunch of times... 10 hours ago, opus said: But are you smarter than a fifth grader? I never quite got why anyone would want to go on that show - if you win, well, yeah, you should be smarter than a 5th grader. And if not - well, that's kind of embarrassing. That being said, there was one question on Monday's show that I couldn't parse, and I think I wouldn't have come up with the answer if I had. I think it was science related, but I've totally forgotten what it was. The kids got it though. (I prefer my embarrassment at home on the couch, out of public view) 3 Link to comment
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