S01.E04: Ripe

[BingeyKohan]

19 minutes ago, freebie said:

Interestingly, one of my co-workers, who has read all of Flynn's books, said that you could read at least *half* of the book and still not be spoiled by anything we have seen on screen so far. I mean, there's slow burn and then there's glacial!

Ha! This is so true!  

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, Dame sans merci said:

Yep, I think so - we saw him biting down on his hand and screaming silently at the end of last week.

I do not remember that at all. I’m starting to wonder if I’m not paying close enough attention or if they have different cut episodes for the international market. For instance, I don’t remember Camille and Richard’s jaunt through the woods being set up. Did they reach an agreement last week or did they just skip that part? It seems weird if they decided to just skip that. I am feeling like there are some mistakes in editing. Both Camille’s and Amma’s clothing changed strangely this week. Or is it purposeful and they are trying to confuse viewers?

Going back to Alan, this episode painted him in a more sympathetic light, trying to mark Camille’s birthday, calling Adora on her bullshit, showing signs of life in general. Then he ends the episode ominously with the episode indicating that he may well rape Adora.

[weaver]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:32 PM, BingeyKohan said:

Ha! This is so true!  

OMG, you mean I've suffered through the glacial pace of the show, and the flashbacks, and trying to spot the words, and all the little tidbits I think I've learned are not helpful to the final resolution?  I'd give up if it weren't for Amy Adams.  

 

On 7/30/2018 at 4:37 PM, bijoux said:

I do not remember that at all. I’m starting to wonder if I’m not paying close enough attention or if they have different cut episodes for the international market. For instance, I don’t remember Camille and Richard’s jaunt through the woods being set up. Did they reach an agreement last week or did they just skip that part? It seems weird if they decided to just skip that. I am feeling like there are some mistakes in editing. Both Camille’s and Amma’s clothing changed strangely this week. Or is it purposeful and they are trying to confuse viewers?

Going back to Alan, this episode painted him in a more sympathetic light, trying to mark Camille’s birthday, calling Adora on her bullshit, showing signs of life in general. Then he ends the episode ominously with the episode indicating that he may well rape Adora.

I began to wonder if I had imagined the last part where Alan is back in Adora’s bedroom.  

I vaguely remember Camille and Richard’s agreement to work together last week.  He’d tell her one thing, and she’d tell him one thing.  I guess the secrets Camille was going to disclose had all happened in the woods, thus the jaunt.  

If the writers and editors had stepped up the pace, I’d be willing to rewatch to pick up these fine points, but I could never go through a second showing.  

[ferjy]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:10 PM, Accidental Martyr said:

That seemed like a reference to Apocalypse Now.

Oh was it? I haven’t seen the movie (I know of it but haven’t watched it). Why am I not surprised they put in yet another obscure bit. Trying to be clever and failing again. 

 

On 7/30/2018 at 5:10 PM, weaver said:

I began to wonder if I had imagined the last part where Alan is back in Adora’s bedroom.  

I vaguely remember Camille and Richard’s agreement to work together last week.  He’d tell her one thing, and she’d tell him one thing.  I guess the secrets Camille was going to disclose had all happened in the woods, thus the jaunt.  

If the writers and editors had stepped up the pace, I’d be willing to rewatch to pick up these fine points, but I could never go through a second showing.  

I can’t be absolutely sure but I think they only revealed that this week. I think that’s why they had that awkward part with Camille obviously advising us of their prearrangement (offscreen arrangement). Why would she have to repeat it to him? Surely he hadn’t already forgotten. lol It was for our benefit only because they hadn’t let us know yet. A lot of shows do it. Comedians have done skits about the “epilogue” lines. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by ferjy

[Penman61]

2 hours ago, Accidental Martyr said:

That seemed like a reference to Apocalypse Now.

I thought the same thing, fwiw.

[KillBill]

Does anyone else feel the need to watch each episode twice, maybe three times? I feel like there's so many little details i miss the first viewing.

Why has Camille just forgiven Amma after she was a complete bitch to her last episode? Showing off for her friends and being disrespectful to her older sister is unacceptable and she'll likely do it again. I can't picture Amma hanging out with the two dead girls in the shed at all! She seems like the shallow type and even admitted they weren't the cool/ popular girls. Her scene with the weird teacher was a little mysterious...if we're going with the theory of Amma leading girls to the killer then maybe it could be him? seeing as she's dying for his attention.

The "sex scene" between Camille and the detective was laughable (Oh no don't kiss me but its totally ok to finger me in the forest) and juvenile but i guess the shock of her scarred body would have ruined the mood. Her reaction to the detectives opinion of what happened to the cheerleaders in the forest makes me think she believes she wasn't gang raped. Maybe something else happened to her which lead to her cutting. She masturbated to the memories of the creepy shed in a previous episode but now she seems afraid to be in the shed (why is she so confusing?). Just a thought but is it possible the flashbacks of being in the forest with the football team aren't bad memories for Camille but maybe she's reminiscing of her first sexual experience? It just doesn't make sense that she thinks she wasn't raped but then cuts herself because of it. I think Camille's cutting is most definitely connected to Adora's behavior.

The final scene when Camille rushes home to find Amma but she's not in her room, she runs down the stairs and there's a girl sitting on the level above? is that Amma? or a ghost figure of her dead sister? I was so confused, I watched the scene three times because i couldn't make out who it was and how Camille could miss the person sitting right infront of her.

[Accidental Martyr]

12 minutes ago, KillBill said:

The final scene when Camille rushes home to find Amma but she's not in her room, she runs down the stairs and there's a girl sitting on the level above? is that Amma? or a ghost figure of her dead sister? I was so confused, I watched the scene three times because i couldn't make out who it was and how Camille could miss the person sitting right infront of her.

I’m pretty sure that was Marian.

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, freebie said:

I thought this episode was boring, easily the least engaging so far. I was actually shocked to see it had only lasted 48 minutes, because it sure felt longer to me. Four episodes in, and very little has happened to move the ball forward toward any kind of a resolution. If this was a 20-episode season, that might be OK, but ... Interestingly, one of my co-workers, who has read all of Flynn's books, said that you could read at least *half* of the book and still not be spoiled by anything we have seen on screen so far. I mean, there's slow burn and then there's glacial!

The book is short, though, really short. (Gone Girl was nearly twice the length.) It's also more a mood piece and character/town study than a mystery, and the show is very much being faithful to the book in that. There are eight episodes, and this is the fourth, so I'd say we're exactly on pace given what has happened so far.

2 hours ago, KillBill said:

Why has Camille just forgiven Amma after she was a complete bitch to her last episode? Showing off for her friends and being disrespectful to her older sister is unacceptable and she'll likely do it again.

I don't think Camille just forgave her; she simply said she didn't want to fight, which is different. (Her panic at the end also doesn't necessarily mean she's forgiven Amma completely; she wouldn't want her sister brutally murdered regardless.) She does seem willing to work towards forgiveness, for a few reasons. She has said she was a mean girl herself. She grew out of it, so she probably figures Amma can too. Camille has also lost one sister, so that would make her a little less likely to write off her remaining sister quickly. And finally there's the whole "daughters of Adora" factor. Although Adora treats Camille and Amma differently, she's still, well, Adora. Nobody else can understand like Amma what it is like to grow up in a house with Adora, and that shared experience would be nearly priceless to Camille; similarly, nobody else can understand like Camille what it does to a girl to grow up in a house with Adora, so she can understand why Amma is the way she is.

I commented in the last episode thread, about the scene in which Amma was being awful to Camille, that it seemed like Camille saw through Amma's awfulness to the pain that was driving it. It doesn't excuse or justify it but Camille is not someone who makes emotionally healthy decisions like drawing necessary boundaries. She's still trying with Adora despite decades of evidence that it won't work; of course she won't cut off her sister because of one awful incident given everything I pointed out above. Amma at least expressed an acknowledgment that she went too far and asked for forgiveness, which is more than Camille has ever gotten from Adora even if Amma was perhaps being insincere.

[tennisgurl]

It seems like the connection between Amma and Camille is actually real, even with Amma being a manipulative mean girl with some serious crazy eyes at times. I think that Amma lives on attention, so having a new relative to give her that attention will be right up her alley, while Camille is still dealing with grief and guilt about her little sisters death, and maybe sees Amma as her second chance. Or maybe she sees herself in Amma, as Camille was apparently a mean girl back in high school too to mask her pain. 

The mystery is certainly taking its sweet time, but I dont mind that much. Its more of a character study and a look at this dusty old southern town, and it works for me. I know its not for everyone, but as I read the book, I pretty much knew what I was getting into. Its certainly a mystery, but its more of a Tennessee Williams play with extra murder. 

Adora really does rule the house (and the town) in between her oh so dainty fainting spells. Even when Alan shows some signs of life, she puts her high heeled foot down, and even basically tells the Sheriff that she can get rid of him if he doesn't allow their little town play to go on. Because that is clearly the greatest tragedy to hit Wing Gap. Not the murders of two girls, but...THE LOCAL PLAY IS SHUT DOWN!!! Its very Adora. 

[Kenz]

Could a person really function with the amount of booze that Camille drinks in the course of a day? She and the detective pretty much finished a bottle in their stroll through the woods, and added to her drinking in the car, and hitting the bar at night makes me wonder how she stays upright.

[bijoux]

I think part of Camille’s interactions with Amma is falling into the abuse she experienced with Adora. 

On a completely unrelated note, this town is basically a large sweat stain, so what is with the cardigans, blazers and jackets all around? And I’m not even talking about Camille.

[formerlyfreedom]

39 minutes ago, Kenz said:

Could a person really function with the amount of booze that Camille drinks in the course of a day? 

You could be surprised about how much alcohol someone can consume and continue to be able to function. Once someone reaches a certain point in their regular drinking, their tolerance can be pretty high. It just becomes part of their daily living.

[WearyTraveler]

45 minutes ago, saoirse said:

You could be surprised about how much alcohol someone can consume and continue to be able to function. Once someone reaches a certain point in their regular drinking, their tolerance can be pretty high. It just becomes part of their daily living.

Yes. It's like coffee.  I drink a lot of coffee.  So much so, that I can have an espresso at 9:00 pm and be asleep by 9:30.  I need to start drinking less coffee! 

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, Kenz said:

Could a person really function with the amount of booze that Camille drinks in the course of a day?

I don't think we have ever seen her sober. That is the depth of her alcohol dependency.  That said, did we wonder about Don Draper and how he  could function so well drinking so much? Alcoholics are adept at managing their addiction until they are not. I think her portrayal is pretty good except I would think she would have blackouts not hallucinations. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

6 hours ago, Kenz said:

Could a person really function with the amount of booze that Camille drinks in the course of a day?

My mom went to the hospital once and her BA was .28.   This would kill most people and the hospital staff knew she was lying when she said she didn't have a drinking problem.  She is functioning and has a job and has been hardcore drinking for over 30 years so it is possible.  Camille is probably spending most of the day maintaining, I am not sure how drunk she actually is when we see her meeting with people during the day.  

I watched Fix and Ripe back to back so I don't remember which episode John's girlfriend was cleaning up under the bed but I wonder what she found.  Also, if he is drinking in a bar and she is in high school isn't that sort of an odd age difference?  I need to ask a friend who has read the book if there is mention of it.  

Is the love of scenes with music a director thing?  Because it seemed to be highlighted in 'Big Little Lies' too and I never got why.  I understand why Camille is listening but the stepdad and even the Chief's wife have scenes focused on them listening to music.  

The Chief and Adora definitely seem to have a past.  Alan annoys me with his "do you need anything from me?" patheticness.  And what does he do all day just drink in that room?  

[bijoux]

6 minutes ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I watched Fix and Ripe back to back so I don't remember which episode John's girlfriend was cleaning up under the bed but I wonder what she found.  Also, if he is drinking in a bar and she is in high school isn't that sort of an odd age difference?  I need to ask a friend who has read the book if there is mention of it.  

It was this episode. She noticed a blood stain or what looked like one under the bed. I'm pretty sure Richard admonished Camille for trying to talk to a minor in the premiere when she was looking at John in the bar, didn't he? So I don't think there really is a noteable age difference there.

Spoiler

There isn't one in the book, in which John just graduated high school.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I remember the scene but couldn't remember the exact conversation as they kept alluding to him being gay bait (she and the bartender and that part seemed to take over).    Thanks!  The cop lets a minor sit in the bar and drink though?

Edited July 31, 2018 by IDreamofJoaquin

[bijoux]

He doesn't seem to mind about Camille regularly drunk driving, so I guess he doesn't bother with stuff like that.

[TattleTeeny]

6 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Yes. It's like coffee.  I drink a lot of coffee.  So much so, that I can have an espresso at 9:00 pm and be asleep by 9:30. I need to start drinking less coffee! 

 

Don't you dare, haha--there's hardly a need for such drastic measures!

[freebie]

Quote

The final scene when Camille rushes home to find Amma but she's not in her room, she runs down the stairs and there's a girl sitting on the level above? is that Amma? or a ghost figure of her dead sister? I was so confused, I watched the scene three times because i couldn't make out who it was and how Camille could miss the person sitting right in front of her.

I don't blame Camille for not noticing anyone sitting there. I was so checked out by this point in the episode, I didn't notice either! Also, I thought all of the racing around looking for Amma would have been more effective if (a) we weren't shown her actual whereabouts at that moment, and (b) this show wasn't telling me over and over again that Amma is a central figure and that the Adora-Amma-Camille triptych is important, so I don't think Amma is going to be in any real peril, at least not this early in the story.

[Morbs]

They mention in the first episode the victim's brother is too young to drink but the bartender is just giving him a break.  The cop just doesn't care too.

[LeGrandElephant]

On 7/30/2018 at 8:08 AM, Chaos Theory said:

There was something about the story about the lesbians and the “slut” daughter that I found interesting.  

At first I thought it might turn out to be about Adora and Camille being the baby, but I guess not? 

[Juliegirlj]

Note to self: watch this show when alert and ready to pay attention! Lots of little clues and Easter eggs. 

Adora reminiscing about when Camille was born was creepy AF! She felt rejected by baby Camille and admittedly thought her own mother would love her after she saw Adora being loved by her baby.... 

The women in the show all have quite the arsenal of tricks to use on men. Camille got her rocks off AND somewhat disarmed the detective. 

Who bit Alan so hard it left a scar? Camille bit Detective Willis on the shoulder in her moment of passion. 

Was Adora the woman in the pornographic photo in the shed? 

If Camille wasn’t the girl that chopped off her hair with Adora’s scissors then who was and why is her recollection warped?! 

Was it just me or was the tender kiss between Adora and her housekeeper a bit odd? 

I predict ( non book reader so just my guesses)

Spoiler

Young Camille was molested and or raped, and became promiscuous. Amma is the result of it- Camille gave birth to Amma and Adora raised her as her own. 

Adora is a reformed slut and has something against young girls that are promiscuous. She and Amma were probably somehow involved in the murders.  

Adora has dirt on Chief Vickery. Could he be Camille’s biological father? 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Juliegirlj

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

 

Who bit Alan so hard it left a scar?

  Reveal hidden contents

Young Camille was molested and or raped, and became promiscuous. Amma is the result of it- Camille gave birth to Amma and Adora raised her as her own. 

Adora is a reformed slut and has something against young girls that are promiscuous. She and Amma were probably somehow involved in the murders.  

Adora has dirt on Chief Vickery. Could he be Camille’s biological father? 

He bit his own hand at the end of the last episode when he was muffling a scream.

[ferjy]

On 7/31/2018 at 12:23 AM, bijoux said:

I think part of Camille’s interactions with Amma is falling into the abuse she experienced with Adora. 

On a completely unrelated note, this town is basically a large sweat stain, so what is with the cardigans, blazers and jackets all around? And I’m not even talking about Camille.

I know! Is the whole town self-harming? :-p

 

On 7/30/2018 at 7:54 PM, Accidental Martyr said:

I’m pretty sure that was Marian.

It looked like it to me too. It was one of the few scenes they didn't flash right by.

Edited August 1, 2018 by ferjy

[formerlyfreedom]

13 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

My mom went to the hospital once and her BA was .28.   This would kill most people and the hospital staff knew she was lying when she said she didn't have a drinking problem.

Yep - I have an estranged family member (who is estranged largely due to her alcoholism) who was arrested multiple times for child endangerment. She blew a .39 one of those times, and while clearly incapacitated, she could still talk and walk. The police were floored - they could not believe she wasn't dead. And she seriously tried to pass it off as a 'couple glasses of wine.'

Back to topic; This is why I can believe someone can live life as shown by Camille.

[Alice Mudgarden]

On 7/29/2018 at 11:01 PM, SHD said:

I thought it was Amma in the shed but I thought we were just seeing the worst case scenarios going on in Camille's head as she was driving around looking for her. 

Is every week going to end with Adora's husband ominously walking around with headphones on?

Someone tell me this week's words, please. I stopped trying to find them.

I'm a little late and saw someone post a link to an article, so I'm not sure if you still need them, but just in case :)

 

Spoiler

- "Suck", "Worm" and "Freak" were carved on a table

- "Barren" was carved on a log at the first crime scene Camille took Richard to

- It may not count, but "wicked" was on a piece of a magazine page in the creepy shed in the woods

- "Teeth" was carved on a tree outside the creepy shed (the one Richard stands near)

- A street sign read "falling"

- The "City of Wind Gap" sign had "rubber" on it

- Near that sign "hollow" was like graffiti on a half wall

- A sign underneath a barber shop pole on the building's facade sad "can't"

Like last week, I was watching on my laptop so I hope I was able to catch everything.

[SHD]

27 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

I'm a little late and saw someone post a link to an article, so I'm not sure if you still need them, but just in case :)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

- "Suck", "Worm" and "Freak" were carved on a table

- "Barren" was carved on a log at the first crime scene Camille took Richard to

- It may not count, but "wicked" was on a piece of a magazine page in the creepy shed in the woods

- "Teeth" was carved on a tree outside the creepy shed (the one Richard stands near)

- A street sign read "falling"

- The "City of Wind Gap" sign had "rubber" on it

- Near that sign "hollow" was like graffiti on a half wall

- A sign underneath a barber shop pole on the building's facade sad "can't"

Like last week, I was watching on my laptop so I hope I was able to catch everything.

Thank you! I had heard about a few of those but not all of them! 

[Alice Mudgarden]

4 minutes ago, SHD said:

Thank you! I had heard about a few of those but not all of them! 

You're very welcome!

[SarahPrtr]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:48 PM, Andromeda said:

I'm growing bored. This episode wasn't as pointless as last week,  but it still feels so, so slow. I know Adora is nasty to Camille, I know Amma is a piece of work. Let's get on with it. I read the book and it moved faster than this show. Most novels turned into screenplays get tidy edits, rather than transferring every single scene to the screen. It feels like Marti Noxon (EP) is trying for a Big Little Lies type Emmy, but it's not happening. 

The book was about as depressing as this show, so the tone is right. 

I really do wish that they had released this as an 8-ep Netflix show where the episodes were released all at once, or 90-minute TV episodes over three or four nights in a row.  It's difficult to watch them spread out like this over many weeks, especially considering the pace of the show.  They seem to be stretching out all the unnecessarily boring parts.  I do appreciate that a lot of effort has gone into making all the little details count, but just wish the pace was quicker.  Just because it's in one of those small towns where people look like they're still in the 70s, doesn't mean that everything has to be so damn slow.  I mean, they're dealing with a serial killer who's killing young girls, ffs!

 

I did like that Alan scolded Adora for hogging all the grief after Marion died.  He's right - Marion was his daughter as well.  Of course he would have been devastated.  In movies and shows, I do tend to like characters such as Adora being told off by others.  It wasn't so satisfying and as always, Adora was pretending to be all too-sad-for-this-life and pulling all her regular bullshit on her husband, but at least he said something.

[SimonSeymour]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:31 PM, JoeyCrown said:

Did they ever show or tell us why or how Marion died?

I read the book years and years ago and I actually don’t remember. But, from the show, it looks like she died from an illness. The IV stand is still in her bedroom. When a child dies from what seems like a long process, I always assume it’s leukemia. 

[MBayGal]

11 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

On 7/30/2018 at 5:08 AM, Chaos Theory said:

There was something about the story about the lesbians and the “slut” daughter that I found interesting.  

At first I thought it might turn out to be about Adora and Camille being the baby, but I guess not? 

Actually, I do think this is about them, but Camille changed the story to the two lesbians being killed, when either neither was killed, or Adora lived and the other one died (suicide? or killed by Adora?).

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, SimonSeymour said:

I read the book years and years ago and I actually don’t remember. But, from the show, it looks like she died from an illness. The IV stand is still in her bedroom. When a child dies from what seems like a long process, I always assume it’s leukemia. 

This definitely gets explained in the book and I have no doubt the show will tell this part too. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/30/2018 at 12:10 PM, thesupremediva1 said:

Adora is such a Norma Desmond. Lying in bed due to a few small thorn cuts, and running down the stairs in a freaking gown and heels, then claiming she needs to "get herself together." WTF lady, this isn't a debutante ball. No wonder Alan is annoyed.

Ha, no kidding. Between acting like a cut from the rose bush was a fatal wound and then swanning about in her negligee to come to the door before telling the chief that she needed to get herself together, I was ready to see a velvet fainting couch next.

On 7/30/2018 at 2:11 PM, freebie said:

Interestingly, one of my co-workers, who has read all of Flynn's books, said that you could read at least *half* of the book and still not be spoiled by anything we have seen on screen so far. I mean, there's slow burn and then there's glacial!

Hilariously, I accidentally confirmed this a few days ago. I bought the book with the intention of reading it after I finished watching the show. Then I realized I didn't have a book to take on vacation with me so I tossed it in my bag just in case I didn't find anything else to take to the beach with me (because what's more relaxing than reading a book about murdered teenage girls?). I ended up reading a little less than half the book (I started reading it on the plane and told myself I'd stop when I caught up to where the show was, but I read a little bit past that) and yeah, I didn't get spoiled AT ALL by reading past where the show had covered.

[ferjy]

15 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

I really do wish that they had released this as an 8-ep Netflix show where the episodes were released all at once, or 90-minute TV episodes over three or four nights in a row.  It's difficult to watch them spread out like this over many weeks, especially considering the pace of the show.  They seem to be stretching out all the unnecessarily boring parts.  I do appreciate that a lot of effort has gone into making all the little details count, but just wish the pace was quicker.  Just because it's in one of those small towns where people look like they're still in the 70s, doesn't mean that everything has to be so damn slow.  I mean, they're dealing with a serial killer who's killing young girls, ffs!

 

I did like that Alan scolded Adora for hogging all the grief after Marion died.  He's right - Marion was his daughter as well.  Of course he would have been devastated.  In movies and shows, I do tend to like characters such as Adora being told off by others.  It wasn't so satisfying and as always, Adora was pretending to be all too-sad-for-this-life and pulling all her regular bullshit on her husband, but at least he said something.

I guess people are getting used to venues like Netflix. Shows used to always be weekly viewing. Personally I like the anticipation of waiting the week (and I really don’t have time to watch all the episodes at once) then chatting about each episode. Look how many posts we put up here for one episode. Can you imagine if all of them were shown at once. It would be mayhem on the forum!

Edited August 1, 2018 by ferjy

[DFWGina]

22 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

 

I predict ( non book reader so just my guesses)

  Reveal hidden contents

Young Camille was molested and or raped, and became promiscuous. Amma is the result of it- Camille gave birth to Amma and Adora raised her as her own. 

Adora is a reformed slut and has something against young girls that are promiscuous. She and Amma were probably somehow involved in the murders.  

Adora has dirt on Chief Vickery. Could he be Camille’s biological father? 

YES!!!!  ME TOO!

[smartymarty]

On 7/30/2018 at 9:30 AM, lion10 said:

Only thing that man's got to live for is his sound system.

Vulture article says that system is worth about $112,000.

[Beezella]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

swanning about in her negligee

LOVE this line!  So apt. I'm not sure if I've ever seen someone verb the word swan before.

I'm surprised no one mentioned that ghastly internet picture that Amma's girls were laughing about of John Keene with the bloody spray of teeth. Det. Richard found it as well.

Many towners are suspiciously weird. I am spooked by John's girlfriend/controller. Those workers at the pig farm with the blood-stained jackets, the guy with the big hook over his shoulder. Probably just a creepy visual. The teacher Amma was teasing/coming on to in an earlier episode. Amma for sure. She is now with another trio of girls. Chief Vickory. (probably just a jerk.) I do not suspect either Bob Nash or John.

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Beezella said:

LOVE this line!  So apt. I'm not sure if I've ever seen someone verb the word swan before.

I'm surprised no one mentioned that ghastly internet picture that Amma's girls were laughing about of John Keene with the bloody spray of teeth. Det. Richard found it as well.

Many towners are suspiciously weird. I am spooked by John's girlfriend/controller. Those workers at the pig farm with the blood-stained jackets, the guy with the big hook over his shoulder. Probably just a creepy visual. The teacher Amma was teasing/coming on to in an earlier episode. Amma for sure. She is now with another trio of girls. Chief Vickory. (probably just a jerk.) I do not suspect either Bob Nash or John.

Teenagers are very into themselves, and their actions are usually more for attention. Most often when they're in a group which makes them braver. But I'd hate to think any of them are capable of such grisly murders. I hope it's a better conclusion than that. They'd have to bring up a pretty damn good reason for them to be involved in anything so horrific. These are cold blooded killings, not accidents. I have to say, I don't think they've shown any good clues as to who it can be. It could be anyone, but for no specific reason that I can see.

Edited August 1, 2018 by ferjy

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Vulture article says that system is worth about $112,000.

? What does it do? 

[LaJefaza]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:20 AM, IDreamofJoaquin said:

 Also, if he is drinking in a bar and she is in high school isn't that sort of an odd age difference?

Do we know for sure that she's in high school? I admit I could have missed that detail, but I just assumed she was one of 'those' grown women who like to slip on their high school cheerleading uniform and make sure people see her in it to casually let everybody know that it still fits and she's 'still got it'. I could have sworn she said something to this effect when we saw her in it. She certainly doesn't look like a high schooler.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

Do we know for sure that she's in high school? I admit I could have missed that detail, but I just assumed she was one of 'those' grown women who like to slip on their high school cheerleading uniform and make sure people see her in it to casually let everybody know that it still fits and she's 'still got it'. I could have sworn she said something to this effect when we saw her in it. She certainly doesn't look like a high schooler.

In the episode where she’s wearing her cheerleading uniform (I think it was S1.E3), Camille pointedly says, “I thought school was out for the summer,” and she says it is but she just felt like wearing it. To me, that made it sound like she’s still in high school (as opposed to an alumnae) but I could be misinterpreting. 

ETA: Ashley also told Camille that thet they learned about self medicating in health class. The way she said it made me think she was still in school but I guess she could have meant several years ago.  I just assumed she was still in high school for multiple reasons (like that John is livIng in her parents’ carriage house, as opposed to with Ashley in an apartment or house of their own).

Edited August 1, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[maddie965]

Maybe I'm just seeing the show from a different perspective, because there are so many things in my head that are not here. Mainly I see the characters self-destructing all the time, and it makes me worried-disturbed-sad. 

1. In the final sequence, Alan had a gun, and he was very disturbed. For me, there are two possibilities. He's going to shoot Adora. Or he's going to shoot himself in front of Adora.  

2. Going back to last episode, after Camille finds Alice dead, she goes to the toilet seat, finds some razor blades stashed there, and starts to cut her wrists deeply. For me, it's very clear that she's trying to kill herself. And she would have succeeded if the nurses hadn't stopped her. I cried so much seeing that. So is Camile still suicidal? In this episode, there were many instances where she was looking at sharp object. Is the cutting ritual related to a desire to kill herself? Is her self-hate the reason she's staying with her mother and sustaining all the abuse? Can she ever forgive herself for being alive, and for ruining her mother's life (her interpretation)?

3. Amma has some part in the killings. That's quite obvious to me. She seduces people and then leads them to some terrible fate. She was trying to seduce that teacher. To what purposes, I don't know.

4. For me, Ashley's scene seemed to indicate she has some kind of OCD. She found semen in her hands (was it blood? I didn't see it) and on the floor and started cleaning in a compulsive way. I think she hates her boyfriend. She was bored giving him a handjob. She only wants him for the fame.

5. I find all of Camille's scenes heartbreaking. The sex with the detective? She was turned on by the shed. Again. She used his finger to masturbate herself. I'm glad she kissed him later, though. Maybe there's a chance of something real there. The most heartbreaking thing of all, for me? She keeps listening to the songs Alice loved. To make her feel better? Or worse? Honestly, I don't know.

I'm not really interested in the mystery. Just in Camille's well-being. I want her ghosts to go away. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by maddie965

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

Going back to last episode, after Camille finds Alice dead, she goes to the toilet seat, finds some razor blades stashed there, and starts to cut her wrists deeply

There weren’t razor blades hidden under the toilet seat. She spotted the screws holding down the toilet seat and she used those to cut herself. 

 

11 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

For me, Ashley scene seemed to indicate she has some kind of OCD. She found semen in her hands and on the floor and started cleaning in a compulsive way.

She spotted blood on the carpet under the bed, not semen. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 7/31/2018 at 11:52 AM, Juliegirlj said:

If Camille wasn’t the girl that chopped off her hair with Adora’s scissors then who was and why is her recollection warped?! 

I need to know too!!

[maddie965]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There weren’t razor blades hidden under the toilet seat. She spotted the screws holding down the toilet seat and she used those to cut herself. 

 

She spotted blood on the carpet under the bed, not semen. 

Thank you! That explains why Camille was looking at the toilet seat on the last episode. Another source for sharp objects. To cut herself or to kill herself?

Ok, I couldn't see the stain, so thanks for the clarification. So the blood is to set up a scenario where John is involved with the crimes? And I still think Ashley hates him.

Edited August 2, 2018 by maddie965

[bioprof]

7 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

If Camille wasn’t the girl that chopped off her hair with Adora’s scissors then who was and why is her recollection warped?! 

I think Adora was referring to herself and her behavior in the past....that's why Camille reacted the way she did, both puzzled and kind of sad because she knew about her mother's past.........maybe Adora despises Camille so much because she sees so much of her younger self in her...maybe....

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

If Camille wasn’t the girl that chopped off her hair with Adora’s scissors then who was and why is her recollection warped?! 

In a previous episode, Ann Nash's dad told Camille about how she (Ann) chopped her hair off - the night before she died, if memory serves - because she refused to put her hair in rollers like her mom wanted her to. It was an example of how willful Ann was, or some such descriptor.

I thought that's what Adora was referring to, which definitely begs the question how she knew Ann had done that if it really was right before she went missing. 

[bioprof]

So if Adora knew this about Ann Nash, does that put Adora as #1 suspect since she knew something Ann did the night before she was murdered???

[smartymarty]

14 hours ago, maddie965 said:

she goes to the toilet seat, finds some razor blades stashed there, and starts to cut her wrists deeply

I thought she found a screw holding the toilet seat to the toilet, and just thrashed her arms. Anyone?