S05.E16: Reunion Part 2 2018.07.26

[pasdetrois]

I'm pretty sure Ashley was supposed to be the key to Thomas' image-polishing. He thought she would provide the pretty, malleable partner and "good optics." It's interesting that, except for when he lost his cool on the boat, he managed to maintain a fairly smooth temperament on-camera, even telling Ashley to cool her jets and being congenial with Kathryn.

Unfortunately (for them) Ashley derailed and Thomas' legal troubles deepened. Now Ashley remains in it for the paycheck, which I assume she's receiving from Bravo and Thomas. He's in a kind of semi-extortion relationship with her.

I think the reason Cam and Patricia have their lips firmly planted to Kathryn's backside is to try to save the show for Whitney.

ETA: Sad to say, but I hope a small army of loving caregivers, and perhaps Thomas' sisters, will be sure the children are taken care of.

Edited July 27, 2018 by pasdetrois

[RHJunkie]

31 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Yes, but for quite a while, Kathryn did act exactly like an egg donor.  She was not a good mother to her children.  Now, having said that, I'm glad that she has gotten her life together and is involved with her kids.

Should Ashley have said those things?  No.  Where did she get her information?  Thomas.  Who should have taken her to task over her behavior?  Thomas.  He didn't really seem to do that.  Yes, Ashley is an adult and responsible for what she said but again, she got her information from HIM.  They are both responsible.

From the start, the "girls" sided against Ashley.  I understand it, to a degree, because they probably felt they were "protecting" Kathryn against Thomas' new girlfriend.  But they never gave Ashley a chance.  They judged her and criticized her before she even opened her mouth.  I get the girl talk behind closed doors but in public, they really should have acted like adults.  All of them. 

Damn this show for making me defend Ashley.

She was not a good mother because of her own demons, not because of her disinterest in being a good parent. Sure, we can call a spade a spade and say that it was probably in the best interests of her children that they spend limited time with her until she got her shit together, but let's not do a disservice to the real issues that Kathryn was dealing with that led to those bad decisions. Let's not contribute to the reasons why mental illness and addiction are stigmatized which leads to many sufferers to go far too long without seeking care and receiving appropriate treatment. 

Obviously Thomas is to blame for the things he told Ashley but no one is criticizing her for having received that information, she's being criticized for using that information as a weapon against Kathryn in an effort to shame her and distract from any kind of progress Kathryn may be making in her recovery...and she 100% deserves blame for that. Why does need to bring up information that happened before she was part of Thomas' life and is contrary to the relationship that Kathryn has with Thomas and her kids today? It was malicious, plain and simple and I'm not giving Ashley any kind of break with that.

I think it's a bit revisionist to say that the girls immediately sided against Ashley. Among themselves, the girls joked about Ashley being the flavour of the week but that was more a poke at Thomas and her behaviours, not at Ashley. They tried to include her when they were around her and sure, they didn't roll out the red carpet for her but they made an effort and in return, she made an effort to decline their efforts and instead chose to play the role of being excluded. It wasn't until the escort thing came to light (at the very end of the season) did the women throw any kind of shade to Ashley's face about being a gold digger. The women sided against Ashley when she started making her vile comments towards Kathryn and I don't disagree with them for that at all. If you're gonna act like a nasty bitch, I'm not going to feel sorry for you when you gain no friends from it. If Ashley behaved like that walking into my friends circle, I wouldn't feel any kind of obligation to befriend her. Kindness doesn't take much and Ashley lacked a great deal of that this season. Unless Ashley is dealing with someone that she won't disclose, in my mind there's no way to defend her.

Ashley looked like a broken woman when trying to defend her relationship with Thomas and I'm not sure yet if it was her failed attempt at making their relationship look solid and convincing or if she really is brainwashed by Thomas enough to normalize all of his behaviour.

Edited July 27, 2018 by RHJunkie

[bichonblitz]

11 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I don't understand all this Kathryn love all of a sudden and actually find it quite frustrating. It's not a rumor initiated by Thomas that Kathryn did put her children in harm's way at some point and as a result, lost custody of them.

I don't understand it, either. Andy having them all clap for the wonder that is Kathryn just wanted to make me barf. She hasn't ended world hunger, folks. She's staying straight for her kids and maybe actually keeping a job. End of story. 

Anybody else think that TRav is keeping Ashley supplied with Cocaine? Just me? He is the devil incarnate. 

Listening to Ashley and seeing her physical deterioration reminds me of Kathryn season's ago when she was under TRav's spell. Kathryn was just as vile. Thomas likes to fuck with women's heads and when Ashley is finally out of the picture he will find another victim. I also agree that Kathryn would still try to reconcile with monster TRav if given the opportunity. Did she say she slept with him after another reunion? And five times with Shep? She likes booty calls. Disgusting. Along with staying straight she needs to dig deep and find some self respect. As everyone likes to point out, Queen Kathryn is a mother. Start acting like one. You can all hate me now. 

[ExplainItAgain]

12 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Did she say she slept with him after another reunion? And five times with Shep? She likes booty calls. Disgusting.

There's nothing wrong with booty calls if both people are into it. She and Shep obviously have a FWB relationship and both are fine with it. Neither one is pining for the other or hoping for something more. They're both adults.

[Koalagirl]

11 hours ago, nexxie said:

It’s ridiculous that a guy who went to jail for drugs and has been accused of sexual assault by multiple women should have any say about when Kathryn is tested - seems like an example of rich white men’s club justice.

It's even more ridiculous that he is allowed to have even partial custody of his kids.  His level of inebriation is fully documented as proof on this show.

[RedInk]

This show is no fun anymore. It's gross that everyone is turning against Thomas now - not because he deserves better - but because they all knew exactly what he was, and they didn't care because he was a big player in their social circle and on the show. Now his name is mud, and not only have they severed all ties, they're elevating Katherine to saint status in contrast to him. Anyone who meant what they said/blubbered about Thomas should have called him out years ago. They're all trash.

Ashley is a puzzle. I started off thinking she was putting on an act, pretending to be a nervous and well-intentioned (but misinformed) victim of Thomas's gaslighting. But then when some of the cast tossed her that rope, she didn't take it. And she LOOKED awful - emaciated and flushed and jittery. So I don't know what's going on.

[hottesthw]

4 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

It's even more ridiculous that he is allowed to have even partial custody of his kids.  His level of inebriation is fully documented as proof on this show.

Kinda makes you wonder how awful Kathryn really was that the custody went to the father,  who was no angel himself. Back when they were fighting Kathryn used those kids as weapons against Thomas every chance she got. He spoke about it on reunions and she never denied it. That behavior combined with her drug use didn't help her case I'm guessing. 

[Koalagirl]

1 minute ago, hottesthw said:

Kinda makes you wonder how awful Kathryn really was that the custody went to the father,  who was no angel himself. Back when they were fighting Kathryn used those kids as weapons against Thomas every chance she got. He spoke about it on reunions and she never denied it. That behavior combined with her drug use didn't help her case I'm guessing. 

Don't forget that there's the good old boys network as well as Thomas' money.   She probably never stood a chance against him.  The old double standard.

[hottesthw]

34 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't understand it, either. Andy having them all clap for the wonder that is Kathryn just wanted to make me barf. She hasn't ended world hunger, folks. She's staying straight for her kids and maybe actually keeping a job. End of story. 

 

I'm willing to bet if she wasn't medicated and didn't have the court watching her every move, hanging access to her kids over her head,  Kathryn would have been all over trying to beat down Ashley. I don't find that all that redeeming. Kathryn has proven she sober, doesn't mean she's changed. 

6 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

Don't forget that there's the good old boys network as well as Thomas' money.   She probably never stood a chance against him.  The old double standard.

Are family courts really like that nowadays? With their mother's documented drug use plus all their other bad behavior on the show I don't think their arrangement is all that far fetched. I do also think the fact that Thomas had a full time Nanny to care for the kids helped his case too. At least there was one stable person on his side to make sure kids were safe. God knows what those kids would have been exposed to if left alone with Kathryn during that time. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by hottesthw

[AnnieHeights]

I have such mixed emotions about Katherine......she was AWFUL during the seasons leading up to this one.  I am glad she is doing much better but I worry about everyone around her now painting her as a victim....she has ownership as to why she is in the situation with her children.  Thomas is horrible and yes, I do think he used his power and money against her but part of her journey to being clean and sober is to acknowledge and learn from her mistakes.  Ultimately I am rooting for her and on a shallow note, she is a pretty girl (although I wish she wouldn't have put her new chest on full display). 

Ashley is completely unstable.  I am not sure if she is under the power of Thomas or if that is just who she is.  The conversation about her loving to prank and scare Thomas was so odd.

Chelsie is still my favorite girl on the show.  Naomi can be a mean girl yes but she at least owns it. 

Shep is just so likeable sometimes......I prefer when he is kind.

[Heathrowe]

14 minutes ago, hottesthw said:

I'm willing to bet if she wasn't medicated and didn't have the court watching her every move, hanging access to her kids over her head,  Kathryn would have been all over trying to beat down Ashley. I don't find that all that redeeming. 

Well, that is where your mileage may vary! Because I think the vast majority of viewers feel that they would not be able to take what Ashley spewed out all season, even without medication/courts/custody issues at play. Hence the new admiration for Kathryn. She was cool under a lot of pressure. Basically, she is the most interesting person on the show. It's been interesting to watch her grow up over the seasons. And she's not done yet.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Heathrowe

[iloveit]

1 minute ago, Heathrowe said:

I'm willing to bet if she wasn't medicated

Can we please stop acting like being medicated for a mental illness is a bad thing or “cheating” or something? Kathryn is no saint but taking needed medication should not be shamed or looked down upon. This is bad for society. People struggling with anxiety and depression should feel free to seek help including medication without judgment from others. Yes, without medication, she would probably spiral again but that is why she should be properly medicated and we should applaud her for seeking help and not shame her for taking medication. 

[Sharonana]

Just catching up on the reunion shows. Who styled Kathryn? Everything is way too much! Hair, jewelry, dress, boobage...way too much!!!

[hottesthw]

10 minutes ago, iloveit said:

Can we please stop acting like being medicated for a mental illness is a bad thing or “cheating” or something? Kathryn is no saint but taking needed medication should not be shamed or looked down upon. This is bad for society. People struggling with anxiety and depression should feel free to seek help including medication without judgment from others. Yes, without medication, she would probably spiral again but that is why she should be properly medicated and we should applaud her for seeking help and not shame her for taking medication. 

I can only speak for my own quote but that was not shaming her. She brings it up and talks about it helping her, so repeating that her current behavior is due to her medication is just a truthful comment. Well, the truth according to Kathryn.

What i don't agree with is all the fawning over how wonderful she is now because for the most part she ignored Ashelys comments. IMO that outcome was based on her current situation, not because deep down she's some kind hearted, misguided soul. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by hottesthw

[Juliegirlj]

If the show runners find it necessary to bring in an obviously mentally unstable woman just to boost ratings then I may need to stop watching the show. Ashley looked emaciated, so she can claim true love, contentment and happiness all she wants, but it is obvious she is struggling. She behaved horribly and said awful things this season, but, she isn’t of sound mind so I have a hard time condemning her. 

I like Cameran but she may need to get the name of Katherine’s Psychiatrist because the constant weeping seemed more than remorse and postpartum hormones. 

Naomie is such a cold bitch and I love it. She and Craig are so similar in their demeanor- maybe they are too much alike to be a couple, but I am “shipping” for them to reunite. Maybe a strong willed bossy woman is  what Craig needs?! 

Katherine and Shep are totally feeling each other right now. I predict a few more hook ups. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

3 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I feel the same way about women who call themselves "girl boss" or "boss babe".  How 'bout you just call yourself a boss because that's what you are?

Thank you.

6 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I'm so sick of "you should never say that to a mother" and "that's no way to talk to a woman" etc.  How about just that's no way to talk to another person?  There's nothing magical about being a woman or spitting out a kid that means people should talk to you differently.

Yes.

[nexxie]

13 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Kathryn to Ashley: “You are really out of touch with the fact that you are an asshole.” Bwhahaha!

That was such a great line - I’m putting it in the archives for future use!

[bosawks]

10 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I agree with @Neurochick - - the "ladies" on this show are a bunch of mean girls. 

Does it make me cynical that I think the guys would be just as mean if they weren't so lazy?

That type of concerted effort at anything seems like to much work for these guys.....

[hottesthw]

Watching this again now, I think the person above who stated this is Bravo's way of distancing themselves from Thomas is correct. There is no way any of these people, including Andy, can watch past seasons and do such a complete turn around in such a short amount of time. I didn't realize how far up Kathryns ass they were during the reunion whenI watched the first time. Heck, Cam herself said some pretty evil things about Kathryns mothering in the past, maybe not on Ashley level but pretty darn close. Now she's weeping?

Kathryn is just cashing in on her opportunity while it lasts.

[nexxie]

11 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I think she's emotionally battered by Thomas.  She defends him and blames herself for his behavior.  She's probably also codependent.  She moved cross country to be with him and she seemed pretty isolated, from what we saw, in Charleston.  She wasn't working then and seemed to have no life other than Thomas.  It would have been pretty easy for him to manipulate her, get her dependent on him and keep her off balance by being attentive, romantic Thomas one moment and then moody, volatile, threatening to walk out and/or cheat Thomas the next.  He clearly enjoyed the drama.  He was telling "the guys" one thing and Ashley something else.  All the while trying to slime his way back to Kathryn.  

So true - this guy is a predator in more ways than the assault allegations suggest. It’s good that everyone sees it now - everyone except his current hostage/enabler.

Edited July 27, 2018 by nexxie

[SheTalksShit]

T-Rav is a nightmare. 

[yourmomiseasy]

4 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I feel the same way about women who call themselves "girl boss" or "boss babe".  How 'bout you just call yourself a boss because that's what you are?

A few years ago there was a big rally not to call girls bossy anymore and I was like "why the fuck not, I'm a boss."  Even more off topic, but one thing that drove me super nuts about the series Girlboss is it was implied that the titular girlboss was being treated differently because she was a girl, but it was probably more because she was an immature and irrational, shitty person.  Maybe the message was all 'girls' are immature and irrational but allowances should be made for them, but I hope not.   I'm not saying I haven't been flawed before, but I like to believe it's because I'm a human, not because I'm a girl.

 

2 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I think it's a bit revisionist to say that the girls immediately sided against Ashley. Among themselves, the girls joked about Ashley being the flavour of the week but that was more a poke at Thomas and her behaviours, not at Ashley. They tried to include her when they were around her and sure, they didn't roll out the red carpet for her but they made an effort and in return, she made an effort to decline their efforts and instead chose to play the role of being excluded. It wasn't until the escort thing came to light (at the very end of the season) did the women throw any kind of shade to Ashley's face about being a gold digger. The women sided against Ashley when she started making her vile comments towards Kathryn and I don't disagree with them for that at all. If you're gonna act like a nasty bitch, I'm not going to feel sorry for you when you gain no friends from it. If Ashley behaved like that walking into my friends circle, I wouldn't feel any kind of obligation to befriend her. Kindness doesn't take much and Ashley lacked a great deal of that this season. Unless Ashley is dealing with someone that she won't disclose, in my mind there's no way to defend her.

 

Ashley's an asshole, but the main focus of the girl power group was shit talking her and icing her out from episode 1. She actually tried to be nice to Kathryn at first -- she over stepped, but she tried.  I don't recall her being really nasty until after the mean girl freeze out.  It's subtle, but the groans, sighs, eyerolls, giggles, and indirect shit talking ("Oh, I wish we could ride faster" with a pointed look at Ashley, etc.) are all there from the girl power gang.  She's unbalanced and a disaster, but she was poked and just because she's a loon doesn't mean the girl power gang aren't all assholes.

[SheTalksShit]

14 hours ago, dosodog said:

I can't deny....some of them are funny!  

It's just me.  I feel weird when a group goes after an individual.  Even when it's deserved.

And I think she's got mental issues.  Which garners pity from me.

I agree, I think Ashley suffers from anxiety. This anxiety causes her to miss certain cues, rush to speak before she even knows what to say, act defensive, be extremely insecure and I think it’s what caused her to say the things she said to Katherine. The tension built up and she got so stressed out and pissed off and just went off. 

Plus, as many ppl noted, Katherine used to be this way, as well. 

Just a question: is the nanny that told Ashley all these things about Katherine the same nanny accusing Thomas of raping her? Or is it a different nanny? 

[Jextella]

On 7/20/2018 at 10:25 PM, RedDelicious said:

Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

https://www.fitsnews.com/2018/07/20/amy-feinstein-sc-nursing-board-receives-complaint-about-ashley-jacobs/

Ashley is beyond clueless.  Boy.  She coulda had a passbook to reality tv fame and fortune (as limited as they are) had she handled herself better.   Through her own behavior, she'll be kicked off the show and out of her rich boyfriend's life and will likely lose her job and maybe even her livelihood if her license gets yanked.  "Fool" is the best word I can think of when describing Ashley.

7 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

Just a question: is the nanny that told Ashley all these things about Katherine the same nanny accusing Thomas of raping her? Or is it a different nanny? 

 

I am confused about the nannies too.  There was the one that Katherine wanted to go.  Is that the same one who alleged sexual misconduct? Or is it full blown rape (ugh.  Such a horrible word/thing).

Edited July 27, 2018 by Jextella

[Sun-Bun]

Kadooze to Austen—-looks like he really is following through on his beer-drenched dreams:

Let’s hope he adds some more brews to the fold as he grows this new little brewing project. Good for him actually getting it done and seeing it to fruition—-what’s your excuse now, Craig??

[Adiba]

13 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

It is NOT Ashley's place to address custody or anything else pertaining to the children, with Kathryn. Full stop. 

ETA: Ashley has no business addressing the drug testing or the myriad of details from the past either.

No one can shout this loud enough. 

This x 1000%. Ashley can complain about the “mean girls” treatment of her, she can complain that Kathryn is not being cordial enough, etc. and I wouldn’t give her much grief.   If she wants to make bitchy, shallow comments about someone’s appearance or mannerisms— so be it (they all do it to some extent). However, in my opinion, she went beyond the pale in her attacks. 

Any parent’s new squeeze should not be involved in custody issues, imo. It is up to each parent and the court (if necessary) to judge what is in the best interests of the children and whether one is or is not a fit parent. Ashley can have her opinions privately and express them to Thomas or her friends/family if she needs to vent.

[yourmomiseasy]

12 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

Kadooze to Austen—-looks like he really is following through on his beer-drenched dreams:

Let’s hope he adds some more brews to the fold as he grows this new little brewing project. Good for him actually getting it done and seeing it to fruition—-what’s your excuse now, Craig??

Good on him for getting his branding together, that's a hard first step.  I'm LOLing though because his logo is totally from some logos for millennials pack on Design Cuts or Creative Market - I ope he didn't pay too much for it.  The can concepts look nice.

Edited July 27, 2018 by yourmomiseasy

[Natalie68]

13 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I don't understand all this Kathryn love all of a sudden and actually find it quite frustrating. It's not a rumor initiated by Thomas that Kathryn did put her children in harm's way at some point and as a result, lost custody of them. A judge started that "rumor" gang, not Ashley. So someone reminding you of that may seem harsh, but it's still makes you a shitty mom who lost custody of her kids!! I don't care how many drug tests she takes, when I look at Kathryn and look at those poor kids all I feel is disgust towards her. Those kids are going thru hell because of HER actions, no-one else. And I think taking a few bad words from some nutjob is NOTHING compared to what she's put those poor babies thru the last few years. I'm literally shocked at Cam's take on this whole thing as a new mom herself. 

I wonder, when Kathryn turned her phone off for those few days and was "missing", did she miss visits with her kids? And if it wasn't her day(s), did she call them, or did she ignore them too? Because if so, just proves again, she's far from being a "real" mom. I'm sick of Kathryn and her bullshit renewed self.  She can lecture Ashley all she wants but the world knows, if Thomas dumped her and professed his love for Kathryn and invited her to live in the mansion, her bags would be packed in 3.5 seconds.

Craig and Naomi are like kids sitting at the adult table during Thanksgiving. They belong together with their high school attitudes and pouting and outbursts. Go, please, don't come back.

This show is starting to annoy me. 

I understand Kathryn has an ugly past.  Is this going to be held against her forever?  Cause from where I am standing, forgiveness and redemption are a thing.  It remains to be seen if she will continue to do well however, she has passed her drug tests and has regained 50% custody.  Depending on how the investigations go Thomas may lose his 50%.  Also, his dalliances with cocaine seem to have been forgiven and he was a fully formed mature adult/elected official (as well as his raging alcoholic issues that seem to be current).  Kathryn was between ages 21 and 26 which is legal age but one cannot deny that one isn't quite as mature as someone his age.  Also, she didn't get sent to the big house.  He did.  Those kids have two parents with many challenges.  To lay this all on Kathryn's feet is wrong.  

[Sun-Bun]

4 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I'm LOLing though because his logo is totally from some logos for millennials pack on Design Cuts or Creative Market

Seriously, I thought the same damned thing!!! Great can designs but the logo is so basic bitch and could’ve been so much better. How do these hipster millennial graphic designers get away with using this same twee minimalism logo shit??

[BravoHo]

2 hours ago, hottesthw said:

Kinda makes you wonder how awful Kathryn really was that the custody went to the father,  who was no angel himself. Back when they were fighting Kathryn used those kids as weapons against Thomas every chance she got. He spoke about it on reunions and she never denied it. That behavior combined with her drug use didn't help her case I'm guessing. 

Don’t forget, Thomas’ daddy was friends with the judge. It is Charleston you know. The good ol boy network is alive and well.... so I reserve judgement on how bad Kathryn really was since I know how this system works all too well. 

[Jextella]

10 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't understand it, either. Andy having them all clap for the wonder that is Kathryn just wanted to make me barf. She hasn't ended world hunger, folks. She's staying straight for her kids and maybe actually keeping a job. End of story. 

 

I'm with ya, but I think the applause was his way of communicating to the cast and world that Ashley was just that bad and he gets it.   In his job, he might not be able to say the words and this was a way around that.  In a way, it was more about Ashley than Katherine, I think.  

....just my take.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Jextella

[BravoHo]

2 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I'm willing to bet if she wasn't medicated and didn't have the court watching her every move, hanging access to her kids over her head,  Kathryn would have been all over trying to beat down Ashley. I don't find that all that redeeming. Kathryn has proven she sober, doesn't mean she's changed. 

Are family courts really like that nowadays? With their mother's documented drug use plus all their other bad behavior on the show I don't think their arrangement is all that far fetched. I do also think the fact that Thomas had a full time Nanny to care for the kids helped his case too. At least there was one stable person on his side to make sure kids were safe. God knows what those kids would have been exposed to if left alone with Kathryn during that time. 

Ummmm yes. They are really like that. Trust me. 

And huge kudos to Kathryn because I would have beat the dogshit out of Ashley from the jump, so medicated or not she’s a better woman than me. 

And the nanny??? The one that he slept with her daughter? That was ok with him providing her underage child with alcohol? That told the kids to call her mama? Okkkkkkk. Your idea of stable is markedly different from mine. 

[yourmomiseasy]

12 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I understand Kathryn has an ugly past.  Is this going to be held against her forever?  Cause from where I am standing, forgiveness and redemption are a thing.  It remains to be seen if she will continue to do well however, she has passed her drug tests and has regained 50% custody.  Depending on how the investigations go Thomas may lose his 50%.  Also, his dalliances with cocaine seem to have been forgiven and he was a fully formed mature adult/elected official (as well as his raging alcoholic issues that seem to be current).  Kathryn was between ages 21 and 26 which is legal age but one cannot deny that one isn't quite as mature as someone his age.  Also, she didn't get sent to the big house.  He did.  Those kids have two parents with many challenges.  To lay this all on Kathryn's feet is wrong.  

Thomas's legal troubles were from a decade before the kids were born and didn't directly cause the kids harm.  I don't think anyone can say the same about Kathryn's drug use, not even her.  I'm also so sick of hearing about how young she was.  She was an adult.  People younger than her have kids all the time and act more mature -- maybe not dumpster fire of a person Farrah Abraham, but that's a low bar .  Was I doing stupid shit in my early 20s?  Yep!  But I didn't have kids to take care of.  I know my parents used to like to party back in the day.  In fact, I know my mom dropped acid while pregnant with me because she didn't know she was pregnant yet.  Once she found out she was pregnant all nonsense ceased and those fools (my parents) grew the fuck up even though they were only 19 and 20.  It doesn't deserve accolades, it's what you should do if you decide to take on the responsibility of bringing a child into this world.

[esco1822]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

She was not a good mother because of her own demons, not because of her disinterest in being a good parent. Sure, we can call a spade a spade and say that it was probably in the best interests of her children that they spend limited time with her until she got her shit together, but let's not do a disservice to the real issues that Kathryn was dealing with that led to those bad decisions. Let's not contribute to the reasons why mental illness and addiction are stigmatized which leads to many sufferers to go far too long without seeking care and receiving appropriate treatment. 

Thank you, I was coming to post this exact sentiment! 

[yourmomiseasy]

22 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

Seriously, I thought the same damned thing!!! Great can designs but the logo is so basic bitch and could’ve been so much better. How do these hipster millennial graphic designers get away with using this same twee minimalism logo shit??

Right?  I thought it was from Vintage Logos For Hipsters, but that one doesn't have hops.  I wish I had time to search and figure out which pack it was from, but alas, I don't.

[MatildaMoody]

12 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

think she's emotionally battered by Thomas.  She defends him and blames herself for his behavior.  She's probably also codependent.  She moved cross country to be with him and she seemed pretty isolated, from what we saw, in Charleston.  She wasn't working then and seemed to have no life other than Thomas.  It would have been pretty easy for him to manipulate her, get her dependent on him and keep her off balance by being attentive, romantic Thomas one moment and then moody, volatile, threatening to walk out and/or cheat Thomas the next.  He clearly enjoyed the drama.  He was telling "the guys" one thing and Ashley something else. 

THIS is exactly the behavior Thomas used on a MUCH younger Kathryn, while Kathryn was also dealing with the hormonal changes that come with pregnancy as well as having Thomas gaslight everyone around him into thinking that Kathryn was a manipulative evil shrew who somehow tricked his 50 year old self into a relationship. But, for some reason Ashley deserves empathy and the recent Kathryn love is somehow unearned?

I get that there are people who will never like Kathryn, but I don't see how anyone can defend Ashley's treatment of her without acknowledging that Ashley is going through what Kathryn went through. Only Ashley has the benefit of having at least been old enough to drink when she first met the guy.

[MatildaMoody]

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Ashley's an asshole, but the main focus of the girl power group was shit talking her and icing her out from episode 1.

I disagree. The main focus of the girl power group from episode 1 was to have each other's back against their asshole exes.

[Natalie68]

30 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Thomas's legal troubles were from a decade before the kids were born and didn't directly cause the kids harm.  I don't think anyone can say the same about Kathryn's drug use, not even her.  I'm also so sick of hearing about how young she was.  She was an adult.  People younger than her have kids all the time and act more mature -- maybe not dumpster fire of a person Farrah Abraham, but that's a low bar .  Was I doing stupid shit in my early 20s?  Yep!  But I didn't have kids to take care of.  I know my parents used to like to party back in the day.  In fact, I know my mom dropped acid while pregnant with me because she didn't know she was pregnant yet.  Once she found out she was pregnant all nonsense ceased and those fools (my parents) grew the fuck up even though they were only 19 and 20.  It doesn't deserve accolades, it's what you should do if you decide to take on the responsibility of bringing a child into this world.

Not quite.  He was sentenced in 2008 (indicted in 2007) and Kensie was born in 2014.   No one is excusing what she did and didn't do when the kids were 1st born.  No one is disputing she was an adult.  To compare a 21 year old to a 50 year old is disingenuous though.  I am certainly a different person than I was at that age. So what I am reading is that she will be forever tarnished by what she did as a young adult because other people at her age or younger had their shit together. 

I was very hard on her and I think she will need monitoring and hopefully other relatives are involved in the kids upbringing.  I would like to think that stupid and harmful behavior done at a young age while also suffering from mental illness doesn't define you forever.  I will have a harsh opinion if she backtracks and starts using whatever her drug of choice is again.  I do think that if those around her see a change and the courts have given her more time with her kids then maybe she really is getting her shit together.

[heatherchandler]

15 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't enjoy seeing the women at all.  To me, they're all mean girls. 

Why did Andy call Kathryn the "mama bear?"  Oh please, at least he didn't call her St. Kathryn.

No Andy, Ashley was right, just because you give birth doesn't make you a mother.  I think Ashley said a lot of truth, but people are like, "you can't say that!!"

And why are they bating Ashley, when Thomas is a million times worse.  Shep, shut up, you're not a saint.

Andy and his slobbering over Kathryn, it is so gross.  It was a gang-up on Ashley all season and the reunion was the topper.  I think most of Ashley's actions were from a place of defensiveness.  She saw the way she was being treated and lashed out.  I don't think anything she said was bad, but if she said anything out of line, she was probably doing it because she felt backed into a corner.  

 

15 hours ago, Neurochick said:

A lot of their anger at Ashley was really anger at Thomas, but Thomas wans't there, so they took it out on Ashley, which wasn't okay because I think all of them leave a lot to be desired. 

Why is it bad that Ashley called Kathryn a "baby mama" when that's what she is?  I mean when folks watch a show like "Love and Hip Hop" and there's some woman who has a baby with a rapper or baller, they call her a "baby mama."  And you probably wouldn't see a young, wealthy guy like Shep be interested in her....hmmmm, wonder why.

And I still think Naomie is a horrible, horrible person and I have no idea why she's on this show.

Of course when the tide was against Kathryn, they all hated Kathryn, Cam wouldn't even meet her for lunch!!  Now the tide is against Thomas and no one will touch him with a 10 ft pole.  I don't like Kathryn or Thomas but what assholes these people are!  Like any of them are even close to perfect. 

So sanctimonious, so gross.

Naomi sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

 

14 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I don't understand all this Kathryn love all of a sudden and actually find it quite frustrating. It's not a rumor initiated by Thomas that Kathryn did put her children in harm's way at some point and as a result, lost custody of them. A judge started that "rumor" gang, not Ashley. So someone reminding you of that may seem harsh, but it's still makes you a shitty mom who lost custody of her kids!! I don't care how many drug tests she takes, when I look at Kathryn and look at those poor kids all I feel is disgust towards her. Those kids are going thru hell because of HER actions, no-one else. And I think taking a few bad words from some nutjob is NOTHING compared to what she's put those poor babies thru the last few years. I'm literally shocked at Cam's take on this whole thing as a new mom herself. 

I wonder, when Kathryn turned her phone off for those few days and was "missing", did she miss visits with her kids? And if it wasn't her day(s), did she call them, or did she ignore them too? Because if so, just proves again, she's far from being a "real" mom. I'm sick of Kathryn and her bullshit renewed self.  She can lecture Ashley all she wants but the world knows, if Thomas dumped her and professed his love for Kathryn and invited her to live in the mansion, her bags would be packed in 3.5 seconds.

Craig and Naomi are like kids sitting at the adult table during Thanksgiving. They belong together with their high school attitudes and pouting and outbursts. Go, please, don't come back.

This show is starting to annoy me. 

Same!  And same!!

3 hours ago, Heathrowe said:

Well, that is where your mileage may vary! Because I think the vast majority of viewers feel that they would not be able to take what Ashley spewed out all season, even without medication/courts/custody issues at play. Hence the new admiration for Kathryn. She was cool under a lot of pressure. Basically, she is the most interesting person on the show. It's been interesting to watch her grow up over the seasons. And she's not done yet.

Mileage may vary indeed!  I fully disagree with that -  I don't find anything about her interesting.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

A few years ago there was a big rally not to call girls bossy anymore and I was like "why the fuck not, I'm a boss."  Even more off topic, but one thing that drove me super nuts about the series Girlboss is it was implied that the titular girlboss was being treated differently because she was a girl, but it was probably more because she was an immature and irrational, shitty person.  Maybe the message was all 'girls' are immature and irrational but allowances should be made for them, but I hope not.   I'm not saying I haven't been flawed before, but I like to believe it's because I'm a human, not because I'm a girl.

 

Ashley's an asshole, but the main focus of the girl power group was shit talking her and icing her out from episode 1. She actually tried to be nice to Kathryn at first -- she over stepped, but she tried.  I don't recall her being really nasty until after the mean girl freeze out.  It's subtle, but the groans, sighs, eyerolls, giggles, and indirect shit talking ("Oh, I wish we could ride faster" with a pointed look at Ashley, etc.) are all there from the girl power gang.  She's unbalanced and a disaster, but she was poked and just because she's a loon doesn't mean the girl power gang aren't all assholes.

I don't know why you're attributing Ashley's nastiness to her being freezed out when Ashley's nastiness was always directed toward Kathryn and not the group of girls. I don't buy that linkage between the two. Again, I acknowledged that the women talked behind her back but they were not nasty or confrontational toward Ashley until she went too far with her comments about Kathryn and only in that regard have they ever spoken up to Ashley. I don't think any of them acted like assholes except for Naomi but I found her overall behaviour this season asshole-ish and it wasn't exclusive to just her attitude toward Ashley. 

[DFWGina]

13 hours ago, ninjago said:

Katherine looks like Ann Margaret at this reunion.

 

I thought she looked like she could be a Judd sister.   Like somewhere between Ashley Judd and Naomi Judd.    I can see a little Ann Margaret too.  She looked older than her true age for sure which isn't usually what we ladies go for... :-)

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, Sun-Bun said:

Seriously, I thought the same damned thing!!! Great can designs but the logo is so basic bitch and could’ve been so much better. How do these hipster millennial graphic designers get away with using this same twee minimalism logo shit??

Because a giant, sloppy tongue was already taken?

[RHJunkie]

13 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

As much as the cast seems to dislike Ashley, I really feel like they were trying to clue her into how Thomas has possibly manipulated her. Unfortunately, Ashley is so far gone that she couldn't see it.

I was honestly surprised by how outspoken they were against Thomas and I'm wondering if it was the rape accusation and all of the litigation stuff that pushed the limit for him. i mean, they've known him for years and was friends with him. Even up to the end of this season he was on good terms with everyone and yet the reunion turned into a bashing fest and the very things that I'm sure they've always known about him now became ammunition used to show Ashley why she's in a bad relationship and needs to get out. Was the rape accusation the straw that broke the camel's back or was it the legal case that resulted in his relationship with Patricia coming to an end? Or may be a bit of both? I'm left thinking that everyone on that stage but Ashley (and maybe Austen) seems to think it's a very good possibility that Thomas is guilty of the rape accusation. 

[yourmomiseasy]

44 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Not quite.  He was sentenced in 2008 (indicted in 2007) and Kensie was born in 2014.   No one is excusing what she did and didn't do when the kids were 1st born.  No one is disputing she was an adult.  To compare a 21 year old to a 50 year old is disingenuous though.  I am certainly a different person than I was at that age. So what I am reading is that she will be forever tarnished by what she did as a young adult because other people at her age or younger had their shit together. 

I was very hard on her and I think she will need monitoring and hopefully other relatives are involved in the kids upbringing.  I would like to think that stupid and harmful behavior done at a young age while also suffering from mental illness doesn't define you forever.  I will have a harsh opinion if she backtracks and starts using whatever her drug of choice is again.  I do think that if those around her see a change and the courts have given her more time with her kids then maybe she really is getting her shit together.

I'm not saying she should be forever tarnished, but I also don't think she deserves a parade for doing what should be the bare minimum.

 

40 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Andy and his slobbering over Kathryn, it is so gross.  It was a gang-up on Ashley all season and the reunion was the topper.  I think most of Ashley's actions were from a place of defensiveness.  She saw the way she was being treated and lashed out.  I don't think anything she said was bad, but if she said anything out of line, she was probably doing it because she felt backed into a corner.  

 

Of course when the tide was against Kathryn, they all hated Kathryn, Cam wouldn't even meet her for lunch!!  Now the tide is against Thomas and no one will touch him with a 10 ft pole.  I don't like Kathryn or Thomas but what assholes these people are!  Like any of them are even close to perfect. 

So sanctimonious, so gross.

Naomi sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Same!  And same!!

Mileage may vary indeed!  I fully disagree with that -  I don't find anything about her interesting.

I think that while everything Ashley said was probably at least technically correct, it wasn't her place to say any of it.  I agree that she probably felt backed into a corner, at least at first in Hilton Head.  Then she didn't handle it properly the next day and kind of doubled down on being an asshole.  

33 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't know why you're attributing Ashley's nastiness to her being freezed out when Ashley's nastiness was always directed toward Kathryn and not the group of girls. I don't buy that linkage between the two. Again, I acknowledged that the women talked behind her back but they were not nasty or confrontational toward Ashley until she went too far with her comments about Kathryn and only in that regard have they ever spoken up to Ashley. I don't think any of them acted like assholes except for Naomi but I found her overall behaviour this season asshole-ish and it wasn't exclusive to just her attitude toward Ashley. 

She had ammo against Kathryn, not the group.  I'm not saying they were nasty or confrontational toward Ashley, it's all much subtler than that.  It's more like pointed comments not technically directed at the person, eye rolls, huffs, sighs, groans, giggles - all designed to make the outsider feel excluded while allowing plausible deniability for the mean girls.  If you are not familiar enough with it to recognize the behavior, then lucky you.  

18 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

For heaven's sake, the woman dealt with addiction and depression. Did your parents deal with that also?

Actually, they dealt with worse.  And it wasn't at the drop of a hat for all destructive behaviors, but anything that could harm me was stopped as soon as I was a known entity, even while abortion was being contemplated.  I have addiction and mental illness on both sides of my family, so that may be why I have so little tolerance of using it as an excuse for harming others.

[yourmomiseasy]

Also, between this show and RHONY, I'm getting ads for rehab now.  I guess it's better than when I was getting fibroid ads.

[TheFinalRose]

2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Kadooze to Austen—-looks like he really is following through on his beer-drenched dreams:

I thought Austen's beer was called TropHop or something? Referring to the citrus notes (or whatever) in the beer. This logo and its colors make me think of acorns. Just saying. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 minute ago, TheFinalRose said:

I thought Austen's beer was called TropHop or something? Referring to the citrus notes (or whatever) in the beer. This logo and its colors make me think of acorns. Just saying. 

Yeah, he mentioned TropHop at the reunion, but cooler heads probably prevailed and realized that a more generalized company name was called for.  TropHop would be better for a given variety.  I think the logo is a hop wearing a crown.

[bichonblitz]

4 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Naomie is such a cold bitch and I love it. She and Craig are so similar in their demeanor- maybe they are too much alike to be a couple, but I am “shipping” for them to reunite. Maybe a strong willed bossy woman is  what Craig needs?! 

Well, it didn't work the first time...

[TheFinalRose]

Ok, thanks SuprSuprElevated for the update. So I went to his Instagram page and, um, I think his beer can design needs some help too. IDK, but when I see the jellyfish can design I get an association with a fishy scent, a connection I wouldn't want my market to be making where beer is concerned.  Sigh. He needs some help. Maybe Bethenney from RHONY can help him out as she's great with branding and he needs an expert.  Otherwise, I'm hoping the kid hits it out of the park with this beer venture ... it'd be great to see. 

[yourmomiseasy]

13 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

I thought Austen's beer was called TropHop or something? Referring to the citrus notes (or whatever) in the beer. This logo and its colors make me think of acorns. Just saying. 

If you scroll through the photos, the cans all say Trop Hop as it is the beer name.  King's Calling Brewing Co is the "brewery" name.  That acorn is supposed to be hops wearing a crown because o the king in the name.