S05.E12: Gone Girl 2018.06.21

[Coffeeb4Tea]

6 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know if I could find a even a couple of them who had cocaine problems and especially not for studying. Who the fuck would waste cocaine on studying for law school when there is Adderall?

Thanks HunterHunted.  I'm showing my age :). I went to law school and started the big firm drudgery before Adderall was a thing.  Good to know things have changed (with respect to coke at least). 

[sheetmoss]

14 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Sorry.  I don't think Craig has any addiction or mental issue.  He's just a guy who fell into a job on a reality show where he's making good coin.  Is he lazy or a procrastinator?  Yeah.  I do think that viewers forget that people on reality shows 'do' have jobs. 

I also think that the Pat pillow design thing was totally producer driven.   Craig is not a designer.  Yeah, it would have been nice if he actually came up with a designer but that's not Craig.  He's just happy with doing things on his terms.  Right now it's working.  Is he going to get a reality check down the road?  Yep

As for Cam and the birth:  I don't recall Cam saying anything about being ripped apart during her birth experience on the show.  She certainly has talked about her experience.  Add to that she had an epidural and talked about everything looking the same after birth (putting a mirror down there).  I can appreciate the problems with breastfeeding.  It's certainly not for everyone and I absolutely get her decision not to continue it.

Yes, Craig  is probably making more $$ off the show than as a newbie lawyer working very long hrs who didn't graduate from a prestigious law school like Harvard or Yale.

On the fence about whether the the pillow design was producer driven -  Pat featuring a design by a Southern Charm cast member is good cross-politicization in marketing. 

I think because Craig dresses well and seems to have an artistic/creative side, Pat thought it was worth a shot w/pillow design, but I think  in the end Craig feared failure trying to please Patthat he procrastinated  so much he did himself in

[RedHawk]

3 hours ago, sasha206 said:

That new nose is awful to me!  I think she needs additional surgery to take care of the wideness on the bottom.  Liked her old nose much better!

She looked a bit like Ellen Barkin, who also has a unique, quirky beauty. Naomi actually was more beautiful, IMO, but now her look is "typically" attractive. 

[HunterHunted]

7 minutes ago, Coffeeb4Tea said:

Thanks HunterHunted.  I'm showing my age :). I went to law school and started the big firm drudgery before Adderall was a thing.  Good to know things have changed (with respect to coke at least). 

I graduated from law school more than a decade ago, but I definitely knew people in high school, college, and law school who bullshitted their way into some diagnosis that required an Adderall prescription. Why fuck with cocaine when you have a drug that's legal and insurance will help pay for? (Yes, technically cocaine is legal and insurance will pay for cocaine if it's prescribed, but it's never prescribed.)

10 minutes ago, sheetmoss said:

Yes, Craig  is probably making more $$ off the show than as a newbie lawyer working very long hrs who didn't graduate from a prestigious law school like Harvard or Yale.

Craig is absolutely making more money from the show than he would be making as an attorney. He didn't go to a great law school. He makes hundreds of thousands of dollars for 3 months of work. Like duh, do the show. But then again, I was one of the people who who told this guy:

to do this show:

In our defense, we didn't know it was fake and thought he was going to be competing on something that was like Big Brother.

[Starlight925]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

That new nose is awful to me!  I think she needs additional surgery to take care of the wideness on the bottom.  Liked her old nose much better!

As one who has had a nose job, I can spot 'em a mile away.

Hers looks good from the front, but horrible from the side.  It's exactly what I told my doctor not to do to me.

Her doctor, in trying to make it smaller, took too much cartilage out, thereby "scooping" it out.  But because the width cannot be changed, as that's the part that actually sits on the face, it makes the whole nose look like a scooped out fake nose.

When I awoke from my surgery, my doctor said that he removed cartilage, and tried to add some back in, for a particular look he thought would be good, and then he put my nose back together, before stitching me up.  He said he walked away from the operating table, and walked across the room, to look at it from different angles.  He also asked everyone else in the room (nurses, anesthesiologists) to do the same.  He then took out the cartilage he put in, and reshaped it again, before closing it up.  The result was (is) a very natural-looking, straight nose, that no one ever guesses for "done".

[sasha206]

15 minutes ago, Sterling said:

As one who has had a nose job, I can spot 'em a mile away.

Hers looks good from the front, but horrible from the side.  It's exactly what I told my doctor not to do to me.

Her doctor, in trying to make it smaller, took too much cartilage out, thereby "scooping" it out.  But because the width cannot be changed, as that's the part that actually sits on the face, it makes the whole nose look like a scooped out fake nose.

When I awoke from my surgery, my doctor said that he removed cartilage, and tried to add some back in, for a particular look he thought would be good, and then he put my nose back together, before stitching me up.  He said he walked away from the operating table, and walked across the room, to look at it from different angles.  He also asked everyone else in the room (nurses, anesthesiologists) to do the same.  He then took out the cartilage he put in, and reshaped it again, before closing it up.  The result was (is) a very natural-looking, straight nose, that no one ever guesses for "done".

Ah, then he scooped her out too much because to me, it looks too wide at the bottom.

I think Craig isn't using or abusing drugs.  After the initial did he or did he not really graduate scandal, I think he knows his bread and butter to be on the show is the role of the ne'er do well.  I think he's smartly pocketing the money and investing it. But his Southern Charm persona is to be the lazy guy who sews and gets yelled at by his (ex) girlfriend and others for being lazy.   

Similarly, I don't believe Kathyrn just checked out for a couple of days and then voila seems back to normal so quickly.  If she went on a bender, I don't believe we'd see her so put together in that discussion with Danni.  I believe it's producer manipulation again.

[RedHawk]

Producer set-up and manipulation indeed. Shep has even said a few times on Twitter, in response to criticism of his behavior, "Hey, we're trying to give you a good show." So he's basically admitting that a lot of it is fake and they are playing roles. Certainly the situations are set up to be filmed. 

Anyone else get the feeling that this episode was re-edited after the T-Rav allegations? There was chat that they might edit down his part in the remaining episodes. The scene with Kathryn and Dani strikes me as oddly timely, in the wake of the Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain suicides. If you think about it, those scenes of going to her door and getting no response and her big reveal to Dani (which contained a "don't go off your meds!" warning), could have been filmed recently and then edited in, or were originally filmed and then it was decided not to air them until suddenly they needed footage that didn't include T-Rav. It's compelling TV that Kathryn went off her meds, had a difficult time with Ashley, and then needed a mental health break so I liked that being included, yet somehow it didn't feel connected to the other parts of the past two episodes. 

[Higgins]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

They do?!?!? Booze is a very well known vice associated with attorneys. Cocaine? Not so much. I went to a better law school than Craig. Not worlds better, but still better. I could point to a shit ton of my classmates who had nascent alcohol problems. I don't know if I could find a even a couple of them who had cocaine problems and especially not for studying. Who the fuck would waste cocaine on studying for law school when there is Adderall?

If Craig has issues with cocaine, it's because he's been hanging around Thomas and has been on a reality tv show for 5 years.

Either too many stimulants or opioid withdrawal. Looked like he needed a fix of something or took too much of something else. 

[link417]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

They do?!?!? Booze is a very well known vice associated with attorneys. Cocaine? Not so much. I went to a better law school than Craig. Not worlds better, but still better. I could point to a shit ton of my classmates who had nascent alcohol problems. I don't know if I could find a even a couple of them who had cocaine problems and especially not for studying. Who the fuck would waste cocaine on studying for law school when there is Adderall?

If Craig has issues with cocaine, it's because he's been hanging around Thomas and has been on a reality tv show for 5 years.

This. My former boss liked to, as he put it, “go to the library” after work. ?

[Mountainair]

I appreciate Cam’s view on mother hood because I have so been her although I have three kids. Pregnancy sucked- threw up every day all day- had gestational diabetes with each one despite being a healthy eater and in a health y weight range, awful labors, two inductions due to high blood pressure and two colicky babies. I didn’t even attempt to breastfeed the first two because I worked full time and with my third my milk never came in. I obviously love my children and would do it again if I had the money, sanity and hospitable uterus to do so. 

[walnutqueen]

4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

She looked a bit like Ellen Barkin, who also has a unique, quirky beauty.

Bravely on display in the prison scenes on "Animal Kingdom".   Try using what you have, Nomes.  Oh, wait ...

[jumper sage]

9 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

The notion of being pregnant, carrying a child, then birthing a child, played a role in my decision not to have kids.  Wasn't the predominant reason, but definitely a factor.  Thankfully, I met a man who had a nearly grown daughter, and he wasn't interested in having more children.  She has blessed us with three grandchildren.

Win/win.

That is awesome!  I could love any kid.

5 hours ago, lezlers said:

Hey, I don't judge any woman for breastfeeding or not breastfeeding.  Fed is best.  You don't need to defend her to me.

I don't either.  I say, "You do you".  As long as mother and child are happy and the child is fed.  My sister's son wouldn't take to the breast and it was because he was sooo hungry.  She started him on formula/cereal in a feeder bottle at 3 weeks.  Each child is different.

[SunnyBeBe]

I've actually had to check on a friend like they did Kathryn before and it's scary, but, I have news for Kathryn's friends.  If a parent who suffers from mental illness is showing signs of serious trouble, like she was, (they were close to calling 911), then the other parent has a right to know this. The children have a right to be protected.  Kathryn driving a car with the children in the car, could have been a disaster.  Also, having custody of the children when you are severely depressed could be risky for the children.  We have had mother's who are depressed take the lives of their children, then their own.  And afterwards family members cry and lament how they never thought she would do something like that.  I'm very disappointed that the cast thought Kathryn's custody case was more important that the children's welfare.  Regardless, Kathryn should not have the children in her care when she's not able to function. 

[MatildaMoody]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've actually had to check on a friend like they did Kathryn before and it's scary, but, I have news for Kathryn's friends.  If a parent who suffers from mental illness is showing signs of serious trouble, like she was, (they were close to calling 911), then the other parent has a right to know this. The children have a right to be protected.  Kathryn driving a car with the children in the car, could have been a disaster.  Also, having custody of the children when you are severely depressed could be risky for the children.  We have had mother's who are depressed take the lives of their children, then their own.  And afterwards family members cry and lament how they never thought she would do something like that.  I'm very disappointed that the cast thought Kathryn's custody case was more important that the children's welfare.  Regardless, Kathryn should not have the children in her care when she's not able to function. 

Yeah, I don't think they were close to calling 911 at all. I also think the whole thing was staged by producers for maximum drama with the hopes of making Kathryn look unstable. First, she is still employed at her job after supposedly "no call no showing" which simply doesn't happen. Second, there is no way that if her friends were really concerned about her well being they would have shown up at her house with cameras. I would hope if they were truly her friends, they would have gone to her family and had one of them check on her before asking the property manager (?!) to check on her - there is no way the property manager could legally do that without the police or her family requesting it. 

I think that Kathryn had a dark week and wanted to be left alone and didn't want to film. I suspect she let the producers know that she wasn't up for filming and this was their way of getting back at her. I don't believe for a second that she didn't let her employers know she wouldn't be coming to work, she is friends with her immediate boss and most likely had arranged for time off, since she wouldn't be filming anything in the store that week. And while I agree that if someone is suffering from depression, their kids need to be prioritized and protected, I don't think this was a situation where the children were in danger. For one, Kathryn has help - maybe not the kind of live in help that Thomas can afford, but she has help. For another thing, while Kathryn was bound by the court to follow specific rules, Thomas only follows them when it suits him. If he felt like there was something off when she came to pick up the kids, he wouldn't have let her take them AND he would have made a point to publicize that she was in some way "unfit" when she showed up to get them. He's done it before, there is no reason to think he wouldn't have done it in this instance. Also, Kathryn was still having to go through SUPERVISED visitation at this point, so her kids were completely safe.

I think it is cruel of the producers to play with her life this way, but I also think you have to have some cruelty in you to be a reality show producer in the first place. 

 

ETA: The alternative scenario I have is that Kathryn let the producers know that she was dealing with a depressive episode and gave permission to the property manager to enter her home. This could be something that she signed off on because she believed the producers would give her a chance show what it's like to deal with depression not considering that they would use it to instigate more drama for her. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by MatildaMoody

[Gem 10]

6 hours ago, lezlers said:

Good for her!  Sorry, I was basing my comment on the show, I don't follow her on social media.  I personally loathe the "lactivist" movement, as a mother who was unable to breastfeed her children.  I appreciate her being unapologetically real. 

Hey, I don't judge any woman for breastfeeding or not breastfeeding.  Fed is best.  You don't need to defend her to me.  I was basing my post on what I saw on the show and wondering why another post was talking about her quitting, ect, since I don't follow her on social media and don't keep up with her life in real time.

I don’t understand why Cameron had to explain her stopping breastfeeding in the first place.  It’s her body and her baby.  Her choices are hers alone.  Cameron gave too much information about her boobs, milk flow and vagina, especially to Shep and Whitney.  When she whipped out the milk at the table, I couldn’t believe it.  I don’t think guys want to see or hear that.  I get that she’s excited to be a first time Mother, but there are nicer things to talk about like how cute the baby is and how she laughs instead of her vagina.  TMI.

[scrb]

I guess she had to play the role of being one of the boys, who happens to have lady parts.

The breast milk thing was probably faked.

And she has to have something to say on IG?

I don't know what's normal period of time for breast feeding but she stopped because it was inconvenient?  Or worried about it making her breasts sag or something?

[Sweet-tea]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:37 PM, Mindthinkr said:

When Craig was very late to go to Ms Patricia’s, his hands were shaking when he was on the computer. Looks like alcohol withdrawal symptoms to me. 

Some of his behaviors also suggest a substance abuse problem. It seems like he always has a drink nearby. He's kind of restlesss and out of sorts, late all the time, irrresposible. He embarrassed himself in that meeting with Patricia. 

He looks strung out. I wonder if he has problems with drugs too. I'm not giving Naomi a pass for her rage and hostility, but I wonder if there is more to the story than he's just not motivated. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Sweet-tea

[MatildaMoody]

25 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

I don’t understand why Cameron had to explain her stopping breastfeeding in the first place.  It’s her body and her baby.  Her choices are hers alone.  Cameron gave too much information about her boobs, milk flow and vagina, especially to Shep and Whitney.  When she whipped out the milk at the table, I couldn’t believe it.  I don’t think guys want to see or hear that.  I get that she’s excited to be a first time Mother, but there are nicer things to talk about like how cute the baby is and how she laughs instead of her vagina.  TMI.

I totally do. Mommy shaming is HUGE, especially on the internet. All it would take is one of her followers to ask her a question about breastfeeding and suddenly she has a pack of rabid folks momsplaining about how she is a terrible parent because she doesn't find joy in breastfeeding, or questioning how much she loves her child, or outright wishing she would die so that someone who really wants a child could raise Palmer. Nice normal everyday people can become evil incarnate when they are sitting behind a keyboard. It was smart of Cam to tackle it head on. 

[Gem 10]

33 minutes ago, scrb said:

I guess she had to play the role of being one of the boys, who happens to have lady parts.

The breast milk thing was probably faked.

And she has to have something to say on IG?

I don't know what's normal period of time for breast feeding but she stopped because it was inconvenient?  Or worried about it making her breasts sag or something?

Yes, probably.  I have to laugh.  Cameron’s pregnancy was so different than mine, and she complained a lot.  I had three kids. Hard labor, no epidural, hardly any drugs, and husbands weren’t allowed in delivery.  We washed and boiled bottles, made formula and washed diapers.  I had no dryer then.  Nobody complained.  We did what we had to do.  

Most of us bottle fed.  My three kids are adults and are healthy, thank God.  Cameron is a lucky girl.  Maybe all the complaining  was producer driven.  I don’t know.  She has a beautiful healthy baby girl.  P.s.  I don’t get this “ mommy shaming”.  It’s her body and it’s her business what she wants to do with it.  If she doesn’t want backlash, she shouldn’t give a blow- by- blow on sm.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Gem 10

[Sweet-tea]

On 6/22/2018 at 9:51 AM, heatherchandler said:

I get it too, and yeah when you have a job - you can't not show or call.  I'm sure she lost that job.  I don't believe for a second she wasn't drinking.  Of course she was.  She probably stopped taking her medicine because it is not ok to mix with alcohol.  I know addict/alcoholic behavior and this is SCREAMING relapse to me.

Me too. 

[Gem 10]

25 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

I totally do. Mommy shaming is HUGE, especially on the internet. All it would take is one of her followers to ask her a question about breastfeeding and suddenly she has a pack of rabid folks momsplaining about how she is a terrible parent because she doesn't find joy in breastfeeding, or questioning how much she loves her child, or outright wishing she would die so that someone who really wants a child could raise Palmer. Nice normal everyday people can become evil incarnate when they are sitting behind a keyboard. It was smart of Cam to tackle it head on. 

So why did she give her private information on social media and Instagram in the first place?  If she puts it all out there, of course she will get backlash from nasty people telling her what and when to do things.  I’m sure nobody forced her.

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

So why did she give her private information on social media and Instagram in the first place?  If she puts it all out there, of course she will get backlash from nasty people telling her what and when to do things.  I’m sure nobody forced her.

People not on reality shows or even active on social media get shamed regularly and in person. Cam spoke to her IG followers it resonated with many, annoyed others, a lot of us also didn’t care one way or another and just like Cam.

[heatherchandler]

22 hours ago, jumper sage said:

The thing is that when you date a "Craig" and you don't like him you can walk away.  To go on and on about him makes no sense.  If it is a friend then one might want to think if the friendship is even worth it.

Yes!  Exactly!  If the guy you are dating bugs the shit out of you... you should not be with him.  There are actually women out there who don’t get angry or agitated when their partner/boyfriend doesn’t do exactly as they like.  I’ve met them, I know they exist.  I’m actually NOT one of those women, so I had to find someone who doesn’t drive me nuts.

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Exactly!  If the guy you are dating bugs the shit out of you... you should not be with him

It’s problematic when your job requires you to interact. 

[MatildaMoody]

1 minute ago, Gem 10 said:

So why did she give her private information on social media and Instagram in the first place?  If she puts it all out there, of course she will get backlash from nasty people telling her what and when to do things.  I’m sure nobody forced her.

She was on social media long before she became a parent. She started the show when reality producers were making it more and more a part of their job (remember when BRAVO required all of their reality folks to maintain a blog AND allowed comments?).   I guess, I don't understand what private information she shared at this point? Pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding are not hidden behind closed doors anymore. People talk about it and reach out on social media for help, questions, and support. And let's be honest, she was going to get backlash regardless of what she posted.

She could have just posted photos of her baby bump, and then pictures of the baby and she would have gotten backlash. All it would take is a single question. If she didn't answer she would have gotten backlash. If she did answer, she would have gotten backlash. And since breastfeeding is such a sensitive topic these days (which is ridiculous IMO), it makes perfect sense that she would just go ahead and own her position before some momsplaining mommyshamer took control of her narrative for her. 

Seriously, imagine if Cam said nothing. One "well meaning" mommy blogger asks if she is breastfeeding and suddenly, this new mom's timeline is filled with advice, admonitions, shaming, and hatred, before she even responds, if she even chooses to respond. People can't help themselves. And, I think it is much more productive to blame those people who could easily bypass her page than it is to blame the mom for making decisions about her and her child's well being. 

[MatildaMoody]

15 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

The thing is that when you date a "Craig" and you don't like him you can walk away.  To go on and on about him makes no sense.  If it is a friend then one might want to think if the friendship is even worth it.

Yes, when you date someone like him, you can walk away. When you are in a committed relationship and living with him, it's a little different. You have to decide if the time put into the relationship is worth it. You have to decide if you love him enough to push through it. You have to decide how to go about splitting from him, especially if you still have feelings for him. Do you try to stay friends? Do you cut him off completely? What if you and your pet also loved him? Should you hide your feelings while pretending to be friends? What if you have the same group of friends? Should you be stoically quiet about how crappy the relationship was, or should you give them some insight so they don't think you were a total bitch the entire time you were together? Nothing is ever black and white in a relationship. When you add a reality show to the mix, especially when the ex needed you to lie for him for a year while filming the show, things get especially tricky.

Edited June 24, 2018 by MatildaMoody

[heatherchandler]

6 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

It’s problematic when your job requires you to interact. 

True!  And especially if you really want to be on tv and your boyfriend is on a show.  

[Gem 10]

2 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

She was on social media long before she became a parent. She started the show when reality producers were making it more and more a part of their job (remember when BRAVO required all of their reality folks to maintain a blog AND allowed comments?).   I guess, I don't understand what private information she shared at this point? Pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding are not hidden behind closed doors anymore. People talk about it and reach out on social media for help, questions, and support. And let's be honest, she was going to get backlash regardless of what she posted.

She could have just posted photos of her baby bump, and then pictures of the baby and she would have gotten backlash. All it would take is a single question. If she didn't answer she would have gotten backlash. If she did answer, she would have gotten backlash. And since breastfeeding is such a sensitive topic these days (which is ridiculous IMO), it makes perfect sense that she would just go ahead and own her position before some momsplaining mommyshamer took control of her narrative for her. 

Seriously, imagine if Cam said nothing. One "well meaning" mommy blogger asks if she is breastfeeding and suddenly, this new mom's timeline is filled with advice, admonitions, shaming, and hatred, before she even responds, if she even chooses to respond. People can't help themselves. And, I think it is much more productive to blame those people who could easily bypass her page than it is to blame the mom for making decisions about her and her child's well being. 

Well, I guess that’s the price you pay when you are on t.v.  No wonder her husband doesn’t want any part of this show.  If Cam wants to stay on the show, I guess she’ll just have to deal with it.  The money probably helps too.  And, everyone truly likes her.

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

True!  And especially if you really want to be on tv and your boyfriend is on a show.  

Or if both of you are on the show together.

11 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Well, I guess that’s the price you pay when you are on t.v.  No wonder her husband doesn’t want any part of this show.  If Cam wants to stay on the show, I guess she’ll just have to deal with it.  The money probably helps too.  And, everyone truly likes her.

Cam seeems to be handling it awesomely.

[MatildaMoody]

17 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Well, I guess that’s the price you pay when you are on t.v.  No wonder her husband doesn’t want any part of this show.  If Cam wants to stay on the show, I guess she’ll just have to deal with it.  The money probably helps too.  And, everyone truly likes her.

She'll just have to deal with being shamed for the choices she makes as a parent? Even though plenty of non-tv show parents get shamed for the exact same things? I just want to make sure that the issue is Cam being honest about her motherhood experience, and not the assholes who shame women for the choices they make as mothers every single day on the internet. Because, I'm pretty sure it's the assholes who should be called out. But, I wanted to be sure that was what we were still talking about.

[breezy424]

I don't think Kathryn was on a 'bender'.  She's tested regularly for drugs and alcohol.  She's passed.  And IIRC, she is subject to blood as well as hair tests. 

The whole breastfeeding thing just bugs.  Gizelle Bundchen once said that there should be a law that all women breastfeed.  Hello.  Breastfeeding is not this beautiful thing for all women.  Or simply leaky breasts, pain, and the inability to somewhat live a normal life can make a new mom depressed, anxious and feel resentment toward their child.  Yeah.  Breastfeeding is great for the child but in the end, it's about both the mother and the child.  Isn't the best thing that both mom and child are in the happiest place for both of them?  People love to 'judge' other people.  So I get Cam's honesty.  And hey, she did do it for three months.

[MatildaMoody]

2 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I don't think Kathryn was on a 'bender'.  She's tested regularly for drugs and alcohol.  She's passed.  And IIRC, she is subject to blood as well as hair tests. 

The whole breastfeeding thing just bugs.  Gizelle Bundchen once said that there should be a law that all women breastfeed.  Hello.  Breastfeeding is not this beautiful thing for all women.  Or simply leaky breasts, pain, and the inability to somewhat live a normal life can make a new mom depressed, anxious and feel resentment toward their child.  Yeah.  Breastfeeding is great for the child but in the end, it's about both the mother and the child.  Isn't the best thing that both mom and child are in the happiest place for both of them?  People love to 'judge' other people.  So I get Cam's honesty.  And hey, she did do it for three months.

No, it would be impossible for her to be on a bender considering the hoops she had to jump through just to be able to see her children - and that was still when all visitations were supervised. 

I agree 100 percent about breastfeeding. I also know that there are lots of women who simply can't breastfeed. Mothers are shamed for the most ridiculous things. One of my sisters simply did not produce enough milk to breastfeed. You wouldn't believe the crap she got in real life for not being able to perform a "naturally" maternal action. My other sister produced way too much milk and felt like she had to hide herself away to prevent people from seeing her leaking through her shirts. There is no standard procedure for motherhood, but it doesn't stop people from using faux concern to troll new mothers who are already overwhelmed with keeping a newborn alive. And even when it is pointed out that there is no standard, people still want to blame the mother or accuse her of not being good enough. 

[scenicbyway]

From the state of his house, the "wellness check" should've been done on Craig.  His spiral since breaking up with Naomi is worrisome.

I felt bad for the people at the BBQ enjoying there lunch when they were suddenly spit on with Cam's milk by Whitney.  Yuck.

[ozzy]

Cameron's decisions on Motherhood are HER decisions. 

[MatildaMoody]

4 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

From the state of his house, the "wellness check" should've been done on Craig.  His spiral since breaking up with Naomi is worrisome.

I felt bad for the people at the BBQ enjoying there lunch when they were suddenly spit on with Cam's milk by Whitney.  Yuck.

Totally agree about Craig. I also think he had been spiraling long before the break up. There had to be a reason that Naomi was trying to get him to look at his life and make real decisions and changes before they broke up. Personally, I would not have put up with is ridiculousness for as long as she did, but no one can ever say how they will react when they are in a relationship that is so screwed up. I mean, I like to think I would have been out of there the first time he called me stupid or childish, but I have no idea how I would react in that particular relationship; especially since the men on this particular show seem to get a pass for bad behavior no matter how awful the behavior is. 

I feel bad for the people that were spit on (because, GROSS), but I don't think it was actually human breast milk. I've seen human breast milk, and that did not in any way look like human breast milk.

[breezy424]

10 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

From the state of his house, the "wellness check" should've been done on Craig.  His spiral since breaking up with Naomi is worrisome.

I felt bad for the people at the BBQ enjoying there lunch when they were suddenly spit on with Cam's milk by Whitney.  Yuck.

Why?  I'm being quite honest here.  He apparently is a slob just like a lot of other people.  He also is basically one handed at the moment.

Ok.  It's not the way I live but he also could have cleaned up and the camera's chose not to show this.  I also know a lot of sloppy twenty nine year olds.  Just sayin....

[ozzy]

I still love Craig.

[scenicbyway]

3 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Why?  I'm being quite honest here.  He apparently is a slob just like a lot of other people.  He also is basically one handed at the moment.

Ok.  It's not the way I live but he also could have cleaned up and the camera's chose not to show this.  I also know a lot of sloppy twenty nine year olds.  Just sayin....

Maybe because when he lived with Naomi the house was clean on camera.  In the first season his apartment was also considerably cleaner.  He may be down to one hand but it looks like he and his roommate are living in a frat house.

[ozzy]

Poor Craig. Something is wrong.

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

It’s problematic when your job requires you to interact. 

OH SNAP!  Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[scrb]

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

It’s problematic when your job requires you to interact. 

Is that true though?

She can just avoid posting comments.  Just a few pics occasionally.

Social media for anyone with any kind of fame becomes a cesspool of haters and viscous people.

Cam seems like the type who could let it all roll off her back.

If she can't, she has the option to quit the show and shut off her accounts, live happily without the limelight, which also means being subject to hate and insults.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, scenicbyway said:

From the state of his house, the "wellness check" should've been done on Craig.  His spiral since breaking up with Naomi is worrisome.

Pretty sure he lived like a slob in previous seasons too, especially when he was partying just about every night.

Then when Shep got on him about shaping up, finishing law school and taking the bar exam (remember when he pretended to send in the paperwork for the bar?), he accused Shep of bullying him, being jealous of him because he was younger and more attractive.

Then he went to RI to shape up, then returned and moved in with Naomi.  She must not have dated him too long before moving in together?  

When she got fed up with his poor habits, Craig said she was disloyal, not his "ride or die" chick.

Now, viewers have reasons to question the credibility of Shep and Naomi, since they both also have behavioral issues.  But when two different people take issue with the way he conducts his life, some of the shade must fall on Craig.

Easy TV money may be saving him from moving back home.  Now maybe he'll buy more properties with the TV money, to try to get mail box money like Shep?

That's fine if he can pull it off but looks like he's looking for income without working too hard.  He should own it if that's his goal.

[Higgins]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

I guess she had to play the role of being one of the boys, who happens to have lady parts.

The breast milk thing was probably faked.

And she has to have something to say on IG?

I don't know what's normal period of time for breast feeding but she stopped because it was inconvenient?  Or worried about it making her breasts sag or something?

She didn't enjoy it. Neither did I. It was uncomfortable and not because I was doing it wrong. Just too much for me.

[KittyKat133]

21 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I'm looking at it from this standpoint. If Thomas is 55 with a 30 year mortgage, in *theory he'd be paying it off until he's 85. Then in *theory he'd be paying double the purchase price of the house by the time it's paid off, with the interest. Is that worth the income tax deduction, considering the number of working years he has left? Then I was thinking about equity. How much would he have in it if he only lived there a few years. So I the end, why not take that $425k down payment and pay cash for a modest house/condo and own it outright. I don't even want to know what kind of debt he has, if potentially everything he has is on paper. And with all these pending legal situations, he might be in for it, financially. Either way, he's gross. 

How would that be double if interest rates are only about 4% right now. 

[Higgins]

He never intended to pay a 30 year mortgage.

[stacyasp]

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Why?  I'm being quite honest here.  He apparently is a slob just like a lot of other people.  He also is basically one handed at the moment.

Ok.  It's not the way I live but he also could have cleaned up and the camera's chose not to show this.  I also know a lot of sloppy twenty nine year olds.  Just sayin....

His house is starting to look like a tweaker lives there

[Sun-Bun]

54 minutes ago, stacyasp said:

His house is starting to look like a tweaker lives there

His house looks like he cooks meth in the kitchen. Hell, *he’s* starting to look like he cooks meth in the kitchen! 

I’m just curious why he and his roomie don’t just pay for a cleaning lady to come clean things up a bit every week, or at least to get shit together and/or put away during filming.

Not like they can’t afford such a small luxury; unless you’re being filmed for a “Hoarders” episode, I just cannot fathom being *that* unconcerned about looking like a filthy pig living in a sty on national television. What a gross slob—-I sure couldn’t live with someone who throws their clothes everywhere like that. Naomi likely kept a housekeeper when they lived together.

But yeah, he needs to use that good current show income and start buying up good property there, even a small condo or two. I’m not sure what SC’s laws on rentals are((for instance, they’ve gotten much stricter about Air B&B’s in Charleston)), but he could make some good dough/regular mailbox money as a landlord. Even if he couldn’t handle some of the more mundane tasks, he could always hire a rental company to deal with upkeep of these peoperties and serve as the “middle man” while he’s busy filming or out of town.

[pasdetrois]

I've thought that Craig looked unhealthy in most of his scenes this season. It's something about his skin - maybe an underlying pallor that he didn't have before and a slight sheen of sweat.

I wonder if Kathryn, who is canny about this reality TV stuff, is annoyed at some cast members using Kathryn's storyline for camera time. I don't buy that all of the mean girl clique friendships are real. Kathryn may have been ignoring Dani and Naomi because they are pretending the friendship for camera time. I thought the fake drama was stupid and ill-advised, given Kathryn's troubles. She probably resented the hell out of them for the unneeded drama.

I do think Kathryn lacks empathy - she's a classic narcissist, like many reality TV folks - but I also think she bristles when she thinks someone is getting the best of her in a "scene" - such as the old restaurant exchange with a distressed Jennifer. At the time I thought that Jennifer was trying to hog the scene - she tried hard to become a member of the cast. In my opinion she used her child's illness for camera time.

Cam's a good ole southern boy in a very pretty package. The gross jokes are part of her on-camera shtick. So are her ruminations about motherhood and pregnancy - many women share the feelings she's had, but Cam chooses to joke about them on TV and IG.

Edited June 24, 2018 by pasdetrois

[lezlers]

14 hours ago, scrb said:

I guess she had to play the role of being one of the boys, who happens to have lady parts.

The breast milk thing was probably faked.

And she has to have something to say on IG?

I don't know what's normal period of time for breast feeding but she stopped because it was inconvenient?  Or worried about it making her breasts sag or something?

She said she quit because she was over it and that's her prerogative.  Who knows, maybe people were hounding her on social media.  Lactivists can be...intense.  I was once arguing with a woman who asserted, in complete seriousness, that formula should only be available via prescription in order to "force" women to have to breastfeed.  The "breast is best" movement and "baby friendly" hospitals did more harm than good, in my opinion, by leading many doctors, hospitals and eventually mothers, to equate formula to poison.

14 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

I totally do. Mommy shaming is HUGE, especially on the internet. All it would take is one of her followers to ask her a question about breastfeeding and suddenly she has a pack of rabid folks momsplaining about how she is a terrible parent because she doesn't find joy in breastfeeding, or questioning how much she loves her child, or outright wishing she would die so that someone who really wants a child could raise Palmer. Nice normal everyday people can become evil incarnate when they are sitting behind a keyboard. It was smart of Cam to tackle it head on. 

So true.  I've seen many women that can't or simply don't want to breastfeed (myself included) be told we shouldn't have bothered having kids in the first place if we didn't want to nurse.  People be fucking crazy over this issue.  

Edited June 24, 2018 by lezlers

[ozzy]

10 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

His house looks like he cooks meth in the kitchen. Hell, *he’s* starting to look like he cooks meth in the kitchen! 

I’m just curious why he and his roomie don’t just pay for a cleaning lady to come clean things up a bit every week, or at least to get shit together and/or put away during filming.

Not like they can’t afford such a small luxury; unless you’re being filmed for a “Hoarders” episode, I just cannot fathom being *that* unconcerned about looking like a filthy pig living in a sty on national television. What a gross slob—-I sure couldn’t live with someone who throws their clothes everywhere like that. Naomi likely kept a housekeeper when they lived together.

But yeah, he needs to use that good current show income and start buying up good property there, even a small condo or two. I’m not sure what SC’s laws on rentals are((for instance, they’ve gotten much stricter about Air B&B’s in Charleston)), but he could make some good dough/regular mailbox money as a landlord. Even if he couldn’t handle some of the more mundane tasks, he could always hire a rental company to deal with upkeep of these peoperties and serve as the “middle man” while he’s busy filming or out of town.

What.