Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Annber03]

I...what...?

Wooooooooow. 

ETA: Oh, my god, this comment underneath the article:

Quote

That shrill, eldritch shrieking you hear is the sound of Scarlett Johannsson reading this story and screaming at the opportunity she missed.

😄

Edited November 20, 2019 by Annber03

[Dandesun]

13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

So this is fun. 

And I'm irritated they say something like "1994 was a different time."  Oh how I wish but someone idiotic to make this suggestion is idiotic enough to make this suggestion in 2019.

Not gonna lie...  I REALLY want to know who that exec was/is.

As for 'a different time' -- well... I think the best comment I saw on it was someone tweeting they had no problem believing this happened in 1994 because how many Pauly Shore movies got greenlit at that time, too?

I mean... they weren't wrong.

[Dejana]

More Hollywood ridiculousness:

[Cobalt Stargazer]

That shrill, eldritch shrieking you hear is the sound of Scarlett Johannsson reading this story and screaming at the opportunity she missed.

Mmm. They joke, I'm sure, but let's take it seriously since not that long ago Johansson was backlashed off of a project for taking an opportunity she was supposed to miss out on. Not to rehash an old subject, but there's a whole lot of movie roles that have been filled by actors and actresses who don't precisely fit the criteria of the character they played, but somehow it's ScarJo who bears the brunt of the snark because...she did it more than once? I guess?

[methodwriter85]

Jamie Chung was also told the same thing, which is why she was pissed about Henry Golding's casting in Crazy Rich Asians. (Although she walked back on all of that.)

I don't think I could have seen Brenda Song as Rachel, but I could have seen her as Nick's bitchy ex.

[kiddo82]

14 hours ago, Dejana said:

More Hollywood ridiculousness:

I first read that as Brenda Strong and was very confused. 

[xaxat]

Ben Affleck has plans to direct a movie about the brutal Congo slavery regime under King Leopold of Belgium. 

Quote

The film will tell the stories of three men – a black American missionary, an English investigative journalist and an Irish spy – who denounced the situation in the Congo and formed the basis for one of the first human rights movements in history.

He's going to tell a story about slavery without a slave as a major character.

Edited November 24, 2019 by xaxat

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

Ben Affleck has plans to direct a movie about the brutal Congo slavery regime under King Leopold of Belgium. 

He's going to tell a story about slavery without a slave as a major character.

Is that better or worse than telling a story about the Iranian Revolution without any Iranians being main characters?

Edited November 24, 2019 by Kel Varnsen

[Silver Raven]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

Ben Affleck has plans to direct a movie about the brutal Congo slavery regime under King Leopold of Belgium. 

He's going to tell a story about slavery without a slave as a major character.

I mentioned this on reddit and got called a snowflake.

[topanga]

12 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I mentioned this on reddit and got called a snowflake.

I think whoever said that doesn’t know what that word means— and they’re probably snowflakes themselves. 

[Lugal]

Quote

I want to see this. Reel Injun Looks at 100 Years of Native Americans in Film

If you happen to be passing through Flagstaff, AZ any time soon, the Museum of Northern Arizona is holding an exhibit The Force is With Our People all about how Star Wars has impacted Native American communities.

https://musnaz.org/theforce/

They also have a bit about the making of Navajo Star Wars (The whole movie dubbed into Navajo) but they don't show the movie there.

[Dejana]

[Spartan Girl]

14 hours ago, Dejana said:

This made me so angry.  Mena was one of the best parts of the Aladdin remake.  He was cute, funny, and charming, and he deserves to get more parts out of this.  Get off your ass and give him a chance, Hollywood!

[Popples]

I wasn't sure if this belongs here. Also, I'm not crying, you're crying.

[Dandesun]

Well, I mean, that's just beautiful in every way.

[methodwriter85]

I just realized that Steven Mackintosh who very convincingly played a trans woman in Different for Girls back in the 90's also played Elton John's asshole dad in Rocketman. That kind of surprised me, although not as jarring as Chris Sarandon being the trans woman in Dog Day Afternoon and the super-sexy vampire stud Jerry in Fright Night.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/4/2019 at 12:14 PM, Spartan Girl said:

This made me so angry.  Mena was one of the best parts of the Aladdin remake.  He was cute, funny, and charming, and he deserves to get more parts out of this.  Get off your ass and give him a chance, Hollywood!

He was just adorable.  And he's Canadian, so I really root for him. 🙂

[Blergh]

Glenn Close played a male pirate called Gutless in Hook and  IMO was far more convincing than Barbra Streisand had been disguising herself as a male in Yentl- in no small part due to Miss Streisand not making the slightest attempt to lower her voice!

But then I think Miss Close has always been more about embracing whatever part she's been given instead of trying to stoke her own ego re movie roles! 

[Spartan Girl]

The one white character in Aladdin is getting a Disney+ spinoff while Mena Massoud is trying to get an audition

It's always one step forward and two fucking steps back, isn't it, Disney?

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The one white character in Aladdin is getting a Disney+ spinoff while Mena Massoud is trying to get an audition

It's always one step forward and two fucking steps back, isn't it, Disney?

FFS. Not that I've actually seen Aladdin, but the star is struggling? I really don't understand Hollywood. For all its claims of being egalitarian and only interested in money, there's still a ridiculous amount of racism about. There's certainly some in the comments. Be warned.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Anduin said:

FFS. Not that I've actually seen Aladdin, but the star is struggling? I really don't understand Hollywood. For all its claims of being egalitarian and only interested in money, there's still a ridiculous amount of racism about. There's certainly some in the comments. Be warned.

He's not struggling. If you read the article it says he is a series regular on a new Hulu series. I wonder if there is more to this story because I have read enough actor biographies to know that just about any actor with an agent can get an audition. It even says in that article that he beat out 2,000 other actors for the role of Aladdin (which means those guys all got auditions). So what exactly is going on?

[Spartan Girl]

Just because he got a part on the Hulu show doesn't mean he's not having a hard time finding other parts. Maybe not "struggling" but it's not the overnight success that others seam to find after a big box office hit. And he's probably still got the odds against him as a relative newbie and a POC.

I'm still side-eyeing Disney for singling out the only white character for a spinoff though. 

Yes, the comments are horrendous. I was brave and scoped out Twitter, and while most of the comments were kind and supportive to Mena, the racist and ignorant people were very much there. "But Rami Malek is doing fine, maybe it's just him!" Yeah, and Rami Malek probably still had to fight for every role he ever got. It doesn't mean Hollywood is suddenly a fair place for all Egyptian and Middle Eastern actors.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I'm still side-eyeing Disney for singling out the only white character for a spinoff though. 

I had the same reaction initially but in reading more I am less critical of Disney. The news about the Disney+ series came from Hollywood Reporter who also mentioned that the idea came directly from Magnussen. He went to the producers who then pitched the idea to Disney. So this doesn’t seem to be a case where Disney just decided to spin-off the only white character.
More importantly the producer confirmed months ago that they are in a early stages of planning a Aladdin sequel. I still think the backlash is deserved but the situation isn’t quite as bad as it first appears. 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Guest

[Spartan Girl]

I don't know if the sequel reports are legit or if it will pan out. But the spinoff, no matter whose idea it was, was exactly the kind of thing that people were afraid of when they first heard a white character was going to be added to the live action version.

[angora]

Re: the Hulu series Mena Massoud is in, that was a show he booked before Aladdin came out and he described the audition as one in which he was the "wild card," 1-2 non-white "options" thrown in among a sea of white guys being seen for the part. As he says in the article, he's been a working actor for 10 years, so it's not that he gets no auditions ever, it's just that he gets them by a lot of hustling and scraping. His point was that being the lead of a live-action Disney movie that made over a billion dollars has yet to open a single door for him. He said he hasn't gotten any auditions since Aladdin came out.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

He's not struggling. If you read the article it says he is a series regular on a new Hulu series. I wonder if there is more to this story because I have read enough actor biographies to know that just about any actor with an agent can get an audition. It even says in that article that he beat out 2,000 other actors for the role of Aladdin (which means those guys all got auditions). So what exactly is going on?

Here’s the part @angora mentions.  I read his statement to be that there haven’t been any roles available for his ethnic background and that he hasn’t been able to be considered for any other roles. That he is still facing the same challenges despite Aladdin being a huge success. 

Quote

Massoud’s first on-screen role was a character whose only designation was “al Qaeda #2” in the CW drama series Nikita. From that point, he set a goal to find characters who aren’t terrorists or bring negative connotations because of the color of their skin or ethnicity. On Amazon’s Jack Ryan, for example, he played Tarek Kassar, a brilliant CIA analyst and confidant to John Krasinski’s Jack Ryan. In the film Run This Town, he plays a fast-talking, razor-sharp mayoral aide. 

“There’s always a wild card or two when you’re casting,” he says. “I’m usually the wild card. In a room of Caucasian guys, a director might be like, OK, let’s see, like, two guys who aren’t. And maybe they’ll be the wild card choice.”

Edited December 8, 2019 by Guest

[methodwriter85]

6 hours ago, Dani said:

I had the same reaction initially but in reading more I am less critical of Disney. The news about the Disney+ series came from Hollywood Reporter who also mentioned that the idea came directly from Magnussen. He went to the producers who then pitched the idea to Disney. So this doesn’t seem to be a case where Disney just decided to spin-off the only white character.
More importantly the producer confirmed months ago that the are in a early stages of planning a Aladdin sequel. I still think the backlash is deserved but the situation isn’t quite as bad as it first appears. 

Prince Anders also got kind of singled out as being pretty funny and a bit of scene-stealer, so I don't think this is coming out of nowhere. He totally makes sense as a character to spinoff.

Edited December 8, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Danny Franks]

Someone like Mena Massoud would provide Hollywood with golden opportunities to explore stories that they've rarely looked at before - Middle Eastern, North African and Persian history and mythology are packed with rich, unexplored figures and tales, which could be turned into big budget movies.

Ridley Scott took newly-made Orlando Bloom and made him the star of a historical epic, Kingdom of Heaven, so why not take Massoud and make him Cyrus the Great or Saladin? Or how about another character from One Thousand and One Nights?

I guess there are people in Hollywood who think anything 'new' is bad, especially if it's new and non-white. But they'll give a spinoff movie to the white guy who had a bit part? Okay.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Danny Franks

[starri]

Or remake Prince of Persia into a version that doesn't suck.

[Ms Blue Jay]

22 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yes, the comments are horrendous. I was brave and scoped out Twitter, and while most of the comments were kind and supportive to Mena, the racist and ignorant people were very much there. "But Rami Malek is doing fine, maybe it's just him!" Yeah, and Rami Malek probably still had to fight for every role he ever got. It doesn't mean Hollywood is suddenly a fair place for all Egyptian and Middle Eastern actors.

Rami is white passing…. I don't think the comparison makes any sense!  Rami had the show before the movie.  Mena had the movie first.

15 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Prince Anders also got kind of singled out as being pretty funny and a bit of scene-stealer, so I don't think this is coming out of nowhere. He totally makes sense as a character to spinoff.

Wow, I really disagree.  It's so obvious they picked the only white person in the movie to do it, personally.  Nasim Pedrad was also a "scene stealer" in the movie and I found her a lot funnier.  Just because Billy "suggests" it, doesn't mean they have to do it.  He isn't De Niro for crying out loud.  He isn't even Anna Kendrick.  He's an okay actor who doesn't really have any clout yet.  It's pretty shocking.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Anduin]

I hate to report this, but Terry Gilliam is scum. Racist and possibly sexist too. Well, I won't see another one of his movies.

Quote

Gilliam said he’s not a fan of Ryan Coogler’s 2018 “Black Panther,” which critics heralded as a gust of fresh wind in the superhero canon, and one that welcomed diversity and inclusion to an otherwise airtight, white-dominated universe of films. Earning more than $1.3 billion worldwide, “Black Panther” penetrated the cultural consciousness in a way few superhero films ever had, but Gilliam isn’t buying it.

“I hated ‘Black Panther.’ It makes me crazy. It gives young black kids the idea that this is something to believe in. Bullshit. It’s utter bullshit. I think the people who made it have never been to Africa,” he said. “They went and got some stylist for some African pattern fabrics and things. But I just I hated that movie, partly because the media were going on about the importance of bullshit.”

When asked if he felt that critical praise for “Black Panther” was a politically correct response that ignored aesthetics in favor of identity politics, Gilliam said, “It makes my blood boil.” The conversation pivoted to controversial remarks he made back in 2018 amid the Harvey Weinstein fallout and the wave of voices that responded to form the #MeToo movement. “We’re in the era of the victim. We are all victims. It’s all somebody else, abusing us, taking advantage of us. We are powerless, except except that we go out and do other things,” he said.

 

[JBC344]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

I hate to report this, but Terry Gilliam is scum. Racist and possibly sexist too. Well, I won't see another one of his movies.

 

For people who don't understand what "white privilege" is, please read Terry's comments. I had no idea he was an ambassador for young black kids and what they take joy in and find aspirational. Thank God my community has Terry to tell us our opinion and set us straight on what things mean to us.  

[Blergh]

Mr. Gilliam was doing fairly well (and even came across as a bit sympathetic) until he put his two cents in re Black Panther and Me Too! Yeesh! Hasn't he heard the saying 'It's better to be silent and have others think one is a fair-minded, supportive person than to speak and have others know one is a bigoted and dissing snot!'?

And,to think the version of Don Quixote sounded like it might have been interesting to see but I guess I'll have to wait until his passing to see it so there's no chance of my monies go to support him. Bummer. 

[Mabinogia]

From Terry Gilliam "We are all victims. It’s all somebody else, abusing us, taking advantage of us."

I know he means this to be sarcastic, but sadly he is more truthful than he thinks he is. We are in an era of victims, we always have been. Humans with power, influence, money have ALWAYS taken advantage of those without, have always abused those without. The only difference is, those who have been victimized have finally had enough and are rising up, speaking up, fighting back and the abusers (and their rich, white, male buddies who have never been at the helpless end of abuse) don't like it. 

What a fucking asshole. It really does feel like, since the abused have started to dare speak up, the fucking assholes are just pouring out of the woodwork like the cockroaches they are. Sadly, cockroaches seem to always survive, but at least we can try to squash them one by one. 

[HunterHunted]

 

10 hours ago, JBC344 said:

For people who don't understand what "white privilege" is, please read Terry's comments. I had no idea he was an ambassador for young black kids and what they take joy in and find aspirational. Thank God my community has Terry to tell us our opinion and set us straight on what things mean to us.  

I read his comments and wondered if he had ever made a film where a Black person had more than 5 lines of dialogue...and then I thought about it...and then I thought about it a little more...and then I decided to look at the casts of the films he's directed on IMDB. He doesn't really cast Black actors. I think 5 lines might have been too generous. There really aren't Black people let alone any people of color in his films.

[possibilities]

Is he opposed to hero stories with white leads, because they are bullshit that confuse white kids? Maybe we should not make any fiction at all, since it's bullshit.

And if anyone assaults you, shut up and take it!

[xaxat]

Quote

 “If you are that powerful, you should be dealing with reality a bit more.”

From a man whose entire career was built on movies that question the meaning of reality. 

I know this is not the common use definition for the phrase, but this guy really is a snowflake. Everybody is out to get him personally. His producers, Marvel, women, capitalism that won't finance his money losing movies . . . 

You wan't reality Terry? It's staring you in the face old man.

Edited December 28, 2019 by xaxat

[DollEyes]

Terry Gilliam needs to have several seats. He's entitled to his opinions about Black Panther, but he's not entitled to his own facts. For one thing, co-writer /producer/director Ryan Coogler not only went to Africa several times during pre-production, co-stars Lupita Nyong'o, Danai Guirira & John Kani (who played King T'Chaka) were born there, so Black Panther's take on Africa is way more accurate than, say, Monty Python's version of Arthurian England in Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

 If Coogler, Taika Watiti, James Wan, Alfonso Cuaron and Guillermo del Toro-the last two,who, unlike Gilliam, are actual Oscar Winners-or any other talented and successful sci-fi/fantasy directors of color had listened to assholes like Gilliam, they might not have careers in the first place.

Terry Gilliam is just another racist, sexist scumbag who's had too much power for too long. The sooner he & his ilk fade into obscurity, the better.

Edited December 31, 2019 by DollEyes

[methodwriter85]

9 hours ago, DollEyes said:

For one thing, co-writer /producer/director Ryan Coogler not only went to Africa several times during pre-production, co-stars Lupita Nyong'o, Danai Guirira & John Kani (who played King T'Chaka) were born there, so Black Panther's take on Africa is way more accurate than, say, Monty Python's version of Arthurian England in Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

Amandla Stenberg backed out of auditioning for Shuri because she thought the role should go to a woman who is a dark-skinned woman. The fact that they didn't use people who look like Tessa Thompson or Gugu Mbatha-Raw was pretty surprising to me when I watched Black Panther, but I thought it felt more authentic that they didn't.

I think colorism is such a fascinating subject!

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Scarlett45]

19 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Amandla Stenberg backed out of auditioning for Shuri because she thought the role should go to a woman who is a dark-skinned woman. The fact that they didn't use people who look like Tessa Thompson or Gugu Mbatha-Raw was pretty surprising to me when I watched Black Panther, but I thought it felt more authentic that they didn't.

I think colorism is such a fascinating subject!

 

I remember how awfully Amandla was harassed after Hunger Games came out a decade ago, her parents should be proud of her, she is a class act!

[Trini]

Deadline article with links to several reports on diversity and inclusion (race, gender, LBGTQ, etc.): 'Film & TV Diversity: What Changed In 2019 And What’s Next In 2020'

---

Also: 'Female Directors Of Top-Grossing Films Reach 13-Year High in 2019, Women Of Color Remain Highly Underrepresented'

Quote

Dr. Stacy L. Smith and the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative have wasted no time in the new year when it comes to keeping tabs on diversity in Hollywood. On Tuesday morning, they released a new research brief that revealed 10.6% of the directors of 2019’s top movies were women. This marks a watershed moment as it is the highest percentage of female directors in the top films in 13 years. Still, 10.6% is a considerably low number that could afford to be higher — a lot higher.

Nonetheless, the movement of the needle should be celebrated. The study examined the presence of female directors working across the 1,300 top-grossing films from 2007 to 2019. The findings found that 12 women each directed one of the 100 top films in 2019. While the overall percentage of female directors across the 13-year time frame remains 4.8%, 2019’s number was the highest across the years examined.

“This is the first time we have seen a shift in hiring practices for female film directors in 13 years,” said Smith. “One notable reason for this jump in 2019 was that Universal Pictures had 5 films with women directors at the helm in the top 100 movies. Yet there is still much more progress needed to reach parity for women behind the camera.”

 

Full report: http://assets.uscannenberg.org/docs/aii-inclusion-directors-chair-20200102.pdf

[methodwriter85]

This was in the awards thread and I thought I'd bring this over here, too.

Quote

 

On 1/7/2020 at 10:34 AM, AshleyN said:

I'm not sure it'll be that much better at the Oscars though. I doubt there will be a full #Oscarssowhite again, as at least one of Lupita/Awkwafina/Cynthia Erivo is likely getting into best actress (maybe two, given what a no1curr Bombshell turned out to be), and JLo still looks good for a nomination at least. Beyond that though, who's even in contention? Maybe Song Kang-ho for Parasite gets in as a passion pick, given how up-for-grabs that fifth slot in supporting actor is?

 

Queen and Slim really seemed like it was set up to be in the awards category, but it didn't really take off, the same way that The Hate U Give (which I thought was going to be Amandla Stenberg's breakout role) didn't last year. It gets frustrating to me, because it's like people claim to want dramatic movies that star people that aren't white or engage in the White Saviour complex, but then those movies don't get supported all that well while Madea 6 makes like 80 million dollars. I work at a movie theater that has a large African-American audience and the same thing keeps playing out- black comedies always do well, but black dramas make barely a ripple most of the time.

[possibilities]

Maybe people are tired of Black dramas being about misery?

Black Panther did well. Get Out did well.

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe people are tired of Black dramas being about misery?

 

I seem to recall a lot of "white dramas" all about misery that do well at the box office and/or get plenty of awards.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Lugal]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe people are tired of Black dramas being about misery?

Black Panther did well. Get Out did well.

I remember an article by a black writer who pointed out that all the Black Dramas were about Slavery or the Civil Rights struggle.  Imagine if all the White Dramas were only about WWII and the Sixties.

Terry Gilliam strikes me as one of those older white men who were progressive or even forward thinking for their times, but times changed and Terry stayed the same.

As for "dealing with reality" well, unlike Terry, poor people deal with reality every day (and poor people-of-color deal with even more of it) so yeah, we need to escape every now and then.  But look at the last two decades: Superheros followed up on trends of Vampires and then Zombies.  I think they admit sub-conscious things we're not ready to say out loud.  After being preyed on by metaphorical bloodsuckers and reduced to screen zombies, we just want to feel empowered again, which is what superheros do.

[possibilities]

White lead movies are varied, with lots of romances and other types of stories. Lots of heroes and family issues and relationship stuff. I think that when there is less representation overall, it becomes more fatiguing when a particular type gets over-represented.

Hidden Figures did well.

I know I feel this way about movies that feature lesbians, or disabled characters (I'm a lesbian and I'm disabled). The number of coming out stories is sickening at this point, compared to anything else that gets written about lesbians. And the number of stories about "learning to accept the disability" or "the pain of being disabled" is just waaaaaay too much compared to anything else we get to do.

I haven't done a study to see exactly what % of movies are on various themes. But I do think A LOT of the ones that get funded with Black casts are focused on oppression, vs the number that get funded for, say, falling in love dramas, or any other topic.

That said, I do want to see Queen and Slim. But I also understand that it might be not so fun. Sometimes people want something to tell them what they don't already know and aren't already living, or just want to have a good time or get relief from the grind.

[starri]

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

But I do think A LOT of the ones that get funded with Black casts are focused on oppression, vs the number that get funded for, say, falling in love dramas, or any other topic.

What about Tyler Perry?  I mean, I don't find much appealing about his films--and his moralizing in particular--but I'm also not the target market.  And I give him all the credit in the world for being one of the few filmmakers to regularly employ women of color over 40.

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, starri said:

What about Tyler Perry?  I mean, I don't find much appealing about his films--and his moralizing in particular--but I'm also not the target market.  And I give him all the credit in the world for being one of the few filmmakers to regularly employ women of color over 40.

I'm not black, either, but this Boondocks parody seemed to concisely skewer Tyler Perry's movies:

 

[Popples]

I'll never knock Tyler Perry's work ethic, but I have issues with his work. He hasn't grown in his writing, still cranking out the same old garbage. The Root has a pretty good article that sums up some of my problems with him.

I'll always love that Boondocks' clip; it's perfect.

[starri]

I'd never seen it, but Madea just rushing in at the last second is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.