S02.E06: First Blood

[grublove]

2 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Why are you calling this person a perv? The actor is an adult, and the point of the scene was to convey how mechanical sex is with his wife versus June. I don’t see how that’s worthy of someone being labeled a perv. You couldn’t see anything except a back and two arms.

Because gratuitous sex and/or rape scenes don't manifest themselves into existence. They're usually built to cater to someone in power behind the scenes personal sensibilities. Actresses have spoken on this reality, and that's immediately what my mind drifted to as I was watching.

The scene just felt out of place to me. *shrug*

The dynamics between Nick and Eden were portrayed in a way that more than conveyed what the reality of their sex life would be. It couldn't have been made any clearer, especially once they brought out the sheet with a hole in it. Plus, we already saw how he was with June that first time..,

[revbfc]

That love pentagon in the Waterford house made me realize that Rita really is the “lucky” one of that bunch.

Edited May 25, 2018 by revbfc

[grublove]

1 hour ago, JennyMominFL said:

Whatever you do, don’t watch Game of Thrones!

Ha! I ended up losing interest after they killed Sean Bean and never really got back into it. Probably for the best. =P

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Idon't know, that scene rubbed me in the wrong way, but this time I want to be wrong because I don't want to believe that the show is telling us that the other side drew the first blood like it's something significant.

Imo, the first time June just wanted to show Serena (and Eden) that she was above Serena's shit. If a baby throws something to the floor, do you get mad? But when Serena told Eden to do the same, June saw it wouldn't be good for her relationship with Eden -who seems to understand she's a human being-, and for Eden herself, and that's when she decided to use the fake cramp card. And somehow, this made the move even better, because June obeyed the obviously petty order first, such a good girl, and then Serena showed she was even pettier by doing it a second time and when June faked the cramp it looked like Serena was risking the baby. Eden must be thinking Serena's creepy. I wish she told Aunt Lydia.

It’s significant in that it actually helped Serena’s cause. The shooting drew attention to ger and gave her and her ilk a platform as she said herself. It’s very possible that her TV show was also a result of this circumstance. Before that she was a loudmouth, who by the looks of it was largely disdained. So the point for me wasn’t that the show tried to make Serena sympathetic here, but the irony of it all. She most likely loses her reproductive capabilities, and her opponents propel her forward.

[Lemons]

On 5/23/2018 at 1:22 AM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

That ending made up for an almost boring episode. Just like her predecessor, Ofglen2 went out like a motherfucking boss! That was one of the most satisfying ending since Emily's mowing down of the guards. 

I was looking forward to this episode for Yvonne Strahovski but I am sorry to say that she did not impress in the flashback scenes. Loud public speeches is not her forte. 

They need to stop with showing June’s mopey staring off into space and huge delays into responding to everything.  It’s boring.  And it sucks up too much time.  

I am interested in the back stories of how they got here and what made Serena such a nasty person, so I’m glad they showed a little of that.  

Which one was Yvonne? 

[Lemons]

11 hours ago, llewis823 said:

OMG I thought I was the only one. I am so on board with you. Even when she is by herself, she smirks! Just bugs the living hell outta me. 

It’s getting really tiresome.  I’m hoping less June and more new characters.

[Lemons]

5 hours ago, grublove said:

I hate that the scene was even included and it made me question whether I wanted to continue watching the show. The way the episode ended pulled me right back in... but I wont last much longer of they keep using the show as a vehicle to push gratuitous sex scenes onto actresses/viewers.

That wasn’t even a sex scene and it wasn’t gratuitous in the least.  Nick had a huge problem he had to deal with and he dealt with it.  Excluding scenes like that is exactly something like a Gildead society would do.  

[BrooklynRat]

5 hours ago, grublove said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. The 'ceremony' scenes were absolutely relevant to the story being told, but the scene with Nick and Eden and even the sex scene between June and Nick during June's escape felt completely unnecessary.

Well season 2 is a “story” in a tv show but the foundation of the entire thing is the book—and Atwood was definitely writing about sex. Sexual power, sexual non-power, sex as power, sex in different contexts, etc. So for me, by definition, gratuitous sex isn’t even possible in The Handmaid’s Tale—all the different kinds of sex and all the sexual roles & relationships are legitimate and worthy of description. (E.g. June having apparently somewhat enthusiastic, yet still ‘forced’ sex with the Commander outside of the ceremony last season, Ruby giving sex favors but accepting none herself, June’s forbidden-fruit sex with a married Luke, then normalized when he’s husband Luke, etc).  It’s part of the whole point.

 

Tweak a detail and the same scene can be enjoyable, enviable, disgusting, repulsive. Tweak a single detail and the sex scene between the same two people can be completely different (e.g. Nick commanded by Serena to screw June versus June completely desiring Nick). Just imaging the ick factor of what we think of as Nick having sex with inappropriately young girl, isn’t nearly as cringeworthy and complex as watching it play out in a scene where he’s forced (once again) to have sex with someone; someone he doesn’t even consider old enough to provide consent, yet she is most assuredly physically consenting (insisting, in fact) and his life is actually in peril if he doesn’t do this totally abhorrent thing. This is the essence of the Gilead sexual pathology—not gratuitous at all, in my opinion. It’s at the heart of the whole point. Sex is being used as a weapon in all kinds of crazy ways—that’s part of what we’re bearing witness to and being asked to think about. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by BrooklynRat
Clarity

[AllyB]

With regard to what would happen to Serena if Fred dies, there is only one realistic place she ends up as far as I can see. Think like a Commander. Serena is a woman who got ahead of herself, put herself on a level where she thought she could address the Commanders and work with them as some sort of equal. She seemed to accept her place in the new world order but did she? Her first handmaid killed herself, her second disappeared for months and came back in time for her husband's big moment to result in the 'partner' of the Waterford's handmaid dealing the worst blow Gilead has likely endured. She would either be executed or declared unwoman and sent to the colonies. But then again, (tv) Serena is a very, very beautiful woman. She is going to one place and one place only. Jezebels.

Edited May 25, 2018 by AllyB

[nodorothyparker]

I'm not big on speculating but yeah, my first thought was Jezebels too.  In the Jezebels episode, good old Commander Fred seemed fairly amused and pleased with himself in telling June how women who had been professors or businesswomen or otherwise worthy of note for some reason were there for men who were into that sort of thing.  The misogynistic fantasy of taking such women down a peg though sexual subjugation is a real thing now.  Imagine what it would be if given even unofficial government sanction and women weren't allowed any means to protect themselves.  Serena was a fairly famous author and talking head that you know at least some men must have had some feelings about.

[UNOSEZ]

14 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm not big on speculating but yeah, my first thought was Jezebels too.  In the Jezebels episode, good old Commander Fred seemed fairly amused and pleased with himself in telling June how women who had been professors or businesswomen or otherwise worthy of note for some reason were there for men who were into that sort of thing.  The misogynistic fantasy of taking such women down a peg though sexual subjugation is real thing now.  Imagine what it would be if given even unofficial government sanction and women weren't allowed any means to protect themselves.  Serena was a fairly famous author and talking head that you know at least some men must have had some feelings about.

As much as I hate the character and think watching her deal with that would be interesting I'm not sure I could stomach it 

[bluebox]

9 hours ago, kieyra said:

 

Yes. The character is supposed to be 15, and I believe the actress is 20. 

She's also aged down quite a bit (styling-wise) in this role. If you watch her in Everything Sucks, she looks and comes across quite a bit older, even though she's also playing a teenager there.

[ihartcoffee]

Finally!  The only thing keeping me watching this heart breaking show is the hope they will revolt somehow.  That suicide bombing was the best!  Do hate that handmaids died. 

[lucindabelle]

I too was annoyed by the trope of liberal students somehow CAUSE radical right wing tropes.

they were completely RIGHT to yell and call her a nazi even if it did hurt her feelings because look at Gilead. 

 

Was  surprised she was in pants though.

june was off the ranch with her remember when’s. I actually felt a little sorry for Serena then. She’s at best very conflicted. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by lucindabelle

[rubinia]

11 hours ago, grublove said:

Ehhh.

The scene between Nick and Eden didn't make me feel uncomfortable in anything close to a meaningful way. It made me roll my eyes and wonder which perv behind the scenes was exploiting what started out as a thoughtfully executed show.

Continuing the scene after Nick climbed into bed added nothing (in my opinion).

I think it was important to show the scene with Nick and Eden (which was not gratuitous) because like I said above, it’s juxtaposed with a) Nick and June’s sex scenes and b) June and the Commander during the ceremony. June has to lie there and take it; Nick sort of has to lie there and “give it.” Yeah, it’s squicky because the character is 15, but it’s supposed to be squicky. It demonstrates how completely dysfunctionally Gilead views sexual relations. It was tastefully done IMO. It’s not like you saw Nick’s bare butt cheeks thrusting or anything. You got the idea, it made you uncomfortable, but it wasn’t gratuitous.

ETA: Game of Thrones is a good comparison, in that it regularly includes sex scenes and nudity strictly for titillation. It even changed a couple of storylines from the source material to include rape scenes for entertainment, which is just plain gross. Handmaid's Tale, on the other hand, has used its sex scenes (IMO) as part of the story, as a way to tell the character's stories.

Edited May 25, 2018 by rubinia

[rubinia]

22 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

I too was annoyed by the trope of liberal students somehow CAUSE radical right wing tropes.

they were completely RIGHT to yell and call her a nazi even if it did hurt her feelings because look at Gilead.

Thank you. Obviously throwing stuff and shooting at Serena was NOT OK, but I sort of got the impression that we were supposed to feel sorry for Serena that the crowd was calling her horrible names and not letting her speak. That could have been because it was Serena's flashback and sort of from her PoV, but it did irritate me a bit.

[Lady Calypso]

Serena is such a fascinating character to watch for me. She's a true monster who chose this path and never considered the consequences that would also happen to her, specifically, until it was way too late. She's done horrific things and she will continue to do horrific things in order to stay in the place that she's in now (because she knows if she's not a Wife, she'll be demoted and she probably can't handle that possibility). Yet, at the same time, she does seem to be aware of what a crappy position she's in, one where she's lost way more than she's gained, and she seems truly unhappy. So, she takes it out on everyone around her, in order to try to find a semblance of happiness, to find a reason for Gilead being what it is. I've come to notice that she loathes the wives and the lives they lead. She seems uninterested in the frivolous topics that they discuss, and she can't stand the one who hates her child.

It's odd, because the party scene in this episode with June and the other Handmaids, I could tell that she was craving any sort of discussion and I think, in another life, she would have gotten along with these women more than the Wives. Her choices in the last couple of episodes has clearly just been to protect the child, rather than June, but I saw a tiny bit of empathy from Serena, in the scene where June is discussing Hannah. She seems to recognize that her and June do have things in common and that she could have held a conversation with June, one that she can't with the other Wives. Yet, Serena can't bring herself to break free of the life she trapped herself in, and the life she trapped all women in. She's basically screwed herself and it's very bittersweet and completely satisfying to see Serena so miserable, living such a lonely life. The power struggle between June and Serena is interesting to watch, but poor Eden is getting caught up in all of it. The girl is completely brainwashed.

I enjoyed the June/Nick scene, where she told him point blank that he needed to fulfill the role that he was being forced to play. For Nick, having sex with a minor is clearly a horror, and it SHOULD be horrific. But June pointing out that they all have to do things they don't want to do adds an interesting perspective. I could see Nick taking advantage over Eden's inexperience, to both ease it for her as well as him. He didn't want to have sex with her and I think he knew that she wasn't ready for this either. 

Fred's pretty despicable too. He knows he has the power, the control, and he doesn't seem to care about his own wife in any way. I think he did once upon a time, but this new society (thanks to his wife, ironically) warped him. The scene of giving Hannah's photo to June was a clear display of power over Serena, showing that he can do a nice thing while Serena is the wrong one. I think his anger over what Serena did with Nick and June caused him to lash out in this way. But also, he wanted to showcase his own power over all women, like June.

The end scene was great. It's nice for this show to give us a "win", even if the win should be truly horrific, as well as a Handmaid having to sacrifice her own life for the cause.

I don't think Fred is dead; I think this would be too easy of a death for him, personally. I expect Fred to still be alive in the next episode, even if he's in critical condition, but it would be more interesting to see what would happen to Serena if he died. I just think that, with Nick going to the other Commander to let him know that he has a lot of Fred's secrets, there's still an opportunity to see Fred's actions punish him fully onscreen this season, and his death now would make it too easy and let him off the hook. 

[lampwick]

This business about June wanting to see Hannah for a couple of minutes really bugged me -unless she was talking about watching her from afar - but to actually meet with Hannah would be incredibly damaging for Hannah wouldn’t it?  How messed up would Hannah be after that?  June doesn’t seem to understand the danger and compromised positions that she puts people in -or she just doesn’t care.  I hate agreeing with Aunt Lydia, but June does seem selfish sometimes (considering the dire consequences of her behavior in this new world).

[bilgistic]

12 hours ago, grublove said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. The 'ceremony' scenes were absolutely relevant to the story being told, but the scene with Nick and Eden and even the sex scene between June and Nick during June's escape felt completely unnecessary.

Seeing June being held down and fairly graphically raped repeatedly was necessary, but the far tamer (but still disturbing) scene with Nick and Eden, which also illustrates the current rule of Gilead, was not necessary? I don't understand that. The story has evolved beyond the circumstances of the first season. The most important thing to Gilead is to reproduce. Sex is going to continue to be part of the story because of that.

[GraceK]

3 hours ago, lampwick said:

This business about June wanting to see Hannah for a couple of minutes really bugged me -unless she was talking about watching her from afar - but to actually meet with Hannah would be incredibly damaging for Hannah wouldn’t it?  How messed up would Hannah be after that?  June doesn’t seem to understand the danger and compromised positions that she puts people in -or she just doesn’t care.  I hate agreeing with Aunt Lydia, but June does seem selfish sometimes (considering the dire consequences of her behavior in this new world).

Yeah I honestly didn’t understand that request. I feel like June keeps sabotaging herself . Did she just want to see Hannah from a distance? She had to know on a common sense level that she couldn’t just scoop Hannah up and run away with her. Last time Serena brought her to Hannah’s location she was blindfolded. What exactly was she hoping to gain? Wouldn’t it have been a more reasonable request to just ask Serena how Hannah was doing? Ask is she was happy and safe? I don’t think Serena would have flipped shit over that simple question.  

[revbfc]

2 hours ago, GraceK said:

Yeah I honestly didn’t understand that request. I feel like June keeps sabotaging herself . Did she just want to see Hannah from a distance? She had to know on a common sense level that she couldn’t just scoop Hannah up and run away with her. Last time Serena brought her to Hannah’s location she was blindfolded. What exactly was she hoping to gain? Wouldn’t it have been a more reasonable request to just ask Serena how Hannah was doing? Ask is she was happy and safe? I don’t think Serena would have flipped shit over that simple question.  

We know June needs to play smart, but perhaps the Mom side of her overrode logic?  Maybe it was all of her emotions and body chemistry (she is pregnant) clashing and her not being able to hold her tongue?

[vixenbynight]

2 minutes ago, revbfc said:

We know June needs to play smart, but perhaps the Mom side of her overrode logic? Maybe it was all of her emotions and body chemistry (she is pregnant) clashing and her not being able to hold her tongue?

I think that June thought that Serena could finally understand what it meant to be a mother, when she was seeing signs of Serena being "human and kind" towards her, by granting her the chance to see the ultrasound, giving her the living room to sleep in and wanting to make sure that she was okay. June just forgot that Serena and her previous actions resulted in her daughter being torn from her, because June was deemed "wrong" for getting involved with a man who was married and they had an affair. Serena knows that June is truly aware of the fact that she put into place the laws that resulted in her daughter being taken from her.

[madpsych78]

On 5/23/2018 at 9:07 PM, GraceK said:

I just wish someone else was playing June. Elizabeth Moss I just don’t like at all. This may be a unpopular opinion on these boards but for me personally she plays June with this smirking, bitchy look on her face that makes it really hard for me to sympathize with her. Ugh I know people are gonna get real mad at me for saying it, but I don’t know what it is!!!! She’s the main character but there is just something about her that I just don’t like. She does look like she’s constantly devious and planning something and it’s annoying. 

Drinking game: Drink every time the camera pans to a close-up shot of Elizabeth Moss. I'll be drunk within the first 30 minutes.

[revbfc]

2 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Drinking game: Drink every time the camera pans to a close-up shot of Elizabeth Moss. I'll be drunk within the first 30 minutes.

Now that you mention it, I would like more lingering close-ups of the other handmaids.   

[Umbelina]

We get extreme close ups of all the leads, and speaking supporting characters.  We even get them of others, such as the women happy that the Wife was killed in the colonies.

Moira, Emily, Janine, Fred, Serena, Lydia, Nick, Luke, Luke's ex, Rita, and Eden have all had extreme close ups regularly.  It's the style of the show, and I like it.  It's been very revealing, and it takes talent to show the myriads of feelings all of them are showing with a camera a few inches from your face.

[legxleg]

I don't think Fred is dead either, just because he's a main character and a lot of characters who by all rights should be dead (Luke, Emily, Janine) somehow aren't. However, I think a lot of commanders are dead, which means there will be a whole bunch of wives for Gilead to deal with. I don't think Gilead will send them to the colonies or Jezebel's or anything else distasteful. We aren't talking about one wife who had an affair, these are a whole bunch of wives who did nothing but survive their husbands being martyred by a suicide bomber. The commanders are the ones making the decision about what is to be done with them, and the precedent they set now will lay out what would happen to their own wives and children if they were to die. Even though Gilead has a messed up view of women, I think that many commanders love their wives, and even those that don't love them at the very least don't want them to die shoveling toxic waste. I think the widows will be honored as brave victims of a terrorist, and sent around Gilead to tell their story and build up morale for the war. Maybe they'd be made some sort of high-class Aunts, but my guess is that some of the commanders who weren't there or who survived the blast will take the widows and children into their households - not as wives, but as sort of down-on-their-luck relations. My bet is the widows will live a somewhat uncomfortable eternal houseguest life, and some might get mistreated on an individual basis, but they will have positions that are only a little lower than the wives. After all, if you badly mistreat war widows, it's going to negatively impact your fighting force, and I don't think that the bigwigs at Gilead are dumb enough to do that.

[Eyes High]

I got chills when Ofglen flashed the detonator. The look on her face! That moment reminded me of the best of Breaking Bad.

[lucindabelle]

If it’s biblical, perhaps they can take second wives. None of the wives can reproduce anyways so it’s not like there are any sexual issues involved. 

 

I too felt a little irritated with June for ruining the day time to with Serena. Honestly I think if she hadn’t asked twice Serena might have let it go. Serena was in a terrible position there. But I agree the hormones and other things may have made the mom side just too strong.

Still it’s a shame I do have some kitty for Serena. 

But, I’m also baffled. It’s one thing to be a right wing radical, but she’s wearing pants when she is giving her speech. It’s just hard to believe you can go from someone who is rejoicing in getting her ideas out in the mainstream to seriously believing she deserves to have slaves. I doubt will ever see that transition, anymore than we get to see much of life and the capital in the hunger games, but that is a story I’d like to see.

[alexvillage]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:07 PM, GraceK said:

I just wish someone else was playing June. Elizabeth Moss I just don’t like at all. This may be a unpopular opinion on these boards but for me personally she plays June with this smirking, bitchy look on her face that makes it really hard for me to sympathize with her. Ugh I know people are gonna get real mad at me for saying it, but I don’t know what it is!!!! She’s the main character but there is just something about her that I just don’t like. She does look like she’s constantly devious and planning something and it’s annoying

Not unpopular with me. I don't like EM either but it is not only because of how she pays June. I always thought she was overrated and her talent a creation of a well orchestrated PR.

I am still not sold on the show in part because I read the book and in the book the handmaid (we never know her name in the book) is not a rebel. It is more like she is numb, trying to figure it out what the hell is going on, how to survive that life. In the show they made her much more pro-active too soon. The book leaves a lot to the imagination but the show got to her rebellious side too soon, imo.

Having said that, if I can put my book love aside, I enjoyed the episode. I really think there is much more about Serena Joy, how she went from the activist she was to a submissive wife. Fred seemed to idolize her and now she cannot really express herself. I think she is being eaten inside and seeing June as a rival and a sort of idol.

She is the most complex character to me.

[chaifan]

37 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

Not unpopular with me. I don't like EM either but it is not only because of how she pays June. I always thought she was overrated and her talent a creation of a well orchestrated PR.

I am still not sold on the show in part because I read the book and in the book the handmaid (we never know her name in the book) is not a rebel. It is more like she is numb, trying to figure it out what the hell is going on, how to survive that life. In the show they made her much more pro-active too soon. The book leaves a lot to the imagination but the show got to her rebellious side too soon, imo.

Having said that, if I can put my book love aside, I enjoyed the episode. I really think there is much more about Serena Joy, how she went from the activist she was to a submissive wife. Fred seemed to idolize her and now she cannot really express herself. I think she is being eaten inside and seeing June as a rival and a sort of idol.

She is the most complex character to me.

I understand some of the criticism of Moss, but I do think she's talented.  I think the few episodes when she was on the run her acting abilities really shone through, especially the scene where she was recaptured in the plane. 

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I understand some of the criticism of Moss, but I do think she's talented.  I think the few episodes when she was on the run her acting abilities really shone through, especially the scene where she was recaptured in the plane. 

I should have elaborated on my words: I do think she has some talent, not as much as I see all over the media. I thought she was terrible in another show. But you are right. She has some very good moments in the show, as I think the actor playing Serena Joy does (which sometimes I think is a much more difficult character to play)

[DrSpaceman]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:21 AM, AllyB said:

With regard to what would happen to Serena if Fred dies, there is only one realistic place she ends up as far as I can see. Think like a Commander. Serena is a woman who got ahead of herself, put herself on a level where she thought she could address the Commanders and work with them as some sort of equal. She seemed to accept her place in the new world order but did she? Her first handmaid killed herself, her second disappeared for months and came back in time for her husband's big moment to result in the 'partner' of the Waterford's handmaid dealing the worst blow Gilead has likely endured. She would either be executed or declared unwoman and sent to the colonies. But then again, (tv) Serena is a very, very beautiful woman. She is going to one place and one place only. Jezebels.

 

Would be interesting to see this happen and then have her turn into part of the rebellion against what she helped create. 

I could see her ending up at the Jezebels or at the Colonies.  Or at least them trying to send her there. 

Or how about she learns of an unhappy fate and decides she and June escape together, with "her/their" baby?

Lots of possibilities for her story.  But my guess is that Fred doesn't die, he survives somehow. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by DrSpaceman

[PeanutnRufus]

OK, I want to know why Nick requested a reassignment. Does he want to get away from June because it's all too painful now? Will he have to take the child-bride with him? And he did seem like he was in a hurry to get to the cars - and away from the building. However, if he knew that Pryce was about to get offed, why bother asking for the reassignment? He's clearly part of the Resistance as he got June TF out of there before (right)?

[revbfc]

1 hour ago, PeanutnRufus said:

OK, I want to know why Nick requested a reassignment. Does he want to get away from June because it's all too painful now? Will he have to take the child-bride with him? And he did seem like he was in a hurry to get to the cars - and away from the building. However, if he knew that Pryce was about to get offed, why bother asking for the reassignment? He's clearly part of the Resistance as he got June TF out of there before (right)?

I do see extra scrutiny on Nick, but for no other reason than he was there and is still alive.

as for wanting to get away, I do believe that’s just a trope of undercover cop shows.  He’s in too deep, and the work as a whole is jeopardized by his continued presence.

[ali59]

Quote

Was  surprised she was in pants though.

I think before the revolution Serena was a normal woman in a normal world who felt strongly about certain things.  I get the feeling that she now realizes that the revolution got out of hand and has become way more than she envisioned.

[Umbelina]

There are no other drivers/guards at this meeting, those were all commanders in the audience.  WHY would Nick be at that grand opening?

Of course Nick would have to take his wife with him if he was reassigned.

It's my strong feeling that much like the compartmentalized Mayday escape?  They didn't let many people in on the Suicide Bomber Handmaid plot.  It's not impossible that Nick would know, but it's equally believable that he did not.

Serena Joy from the book doesn't differ much from Serena Joy on this show.  There are no real "spoilers" here, I am simply tagging this out of an abundance of caution.  Serena Joy:

Spoiler

Offred states that Serena Joy's real name is Pam, and that Serena Joy is a stage name. Before the creation of Gilead, Serena was a televangelist and talented singer, who advocated for women to return to 'traditional' family values and roles and supported Gilead's creation. At some point, she married a man named Fred, who became a high-ranking Commander in Gilead. However, after Gilead's triumph, Serena was left bitter and miserable. She was stuck at home all day and had to rely on Handmaids to conceive a child.

However, there ARE book spoilers in the article where I found that description/clarification about Serena Joy.  Your choice whether or not to look.  http://the-handmaids-tale.wikia.com/wiki/Serena_Joy

[RandomX]

15 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

<respectfully snipped by me>

But, I’m also baffled. It’s one thing to be a right wing radical, but she’s wearing pants when she is giving her speech. It’s just hard to believe you can go from someone who is rejoicing in getting her ideas out in the mainstream to seriously believing she deserves to have slaves. I doubt will ever see that transition, anymore than we get to see much of life and the capital in the hunger games, but that is a story I’d like to see.

The pants to me signified that Serena was calling for a return to traditional values, but didn't foresee the end result. Her envisioned utopian wardrobe was not a muted teal dress. Serena provided an appealing public face for the pro-Gilead movement. Once the movement achieved power, she wasn't needed any more.

As for deserving to have slaves: If the shooting rendered her (or contributed to her being) infertile, she would likely think that she deserved the child that terrorists violently took from her.  I don't doubt that Serena had an overwhelming desire to be a mother before Gilead, and, now that Gilead is in power, that's all she has left. 

It's all too easy to believe that people deserve to be slaves. If you consider them unrepentant sinners -- or animals -- then, as Aunt Lydia would say, they should be grateful for the opportunities they are given to serve Gilead. Serving Gilead is the only way to save one's soul. If you can't serve or refuse to serve, then you are officially declared inhuman (unwoman) and sent to the colonies, or wherever.

[bluebox]

Let's face it, even if she hadn't been shot in the babymaker, she still probably wouldn't have had a baby since Fred's almost certainly infertile.

[Baltimore Betty]

There is a road about 5 min up the road from me, it's Mt. Gilead Road...it did not hit me until this afternoon as I drove past it.  I could not buy a house on that street now, lol.

[mamadrama]

My son just said, "This can't run for 10 seasons. By the time June finally makes it to Canada, we'll be living in the real Gilead and won't be allowed to watch TV anymore to see how it ends!"

[ozzy]

Also, Serena can't arrange flowers for shit

[kieyra]

This is probably a real reach, but ...

OfGlen sort of punches the air triumphantly as she thumbs the detonator, and something about the shot seemed really familiar.

Finally realized it reminds me of the last shot of The Breakfast Club:

 

The show has used the song playing during the shot above (Don’t You Forget About Me) before. So a Breakfast Club homage (as strange as the first one was) isn’t out of the question, but I suppose this is most likely a coincidence.

[millennium]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:07 PM, GraceK said:

I just wish someone else was playing June. Elizabeth Moss I just don’t like at all. This may be a unpopular opinion on these boards but for me personally she plays June with this smirking, bitchy look on her face that makes it really hard for me to sympathize with her. Ugh I know people are gonna get real mad at me for saying it, but I don’t know what it is!!!! She’s the main character but there is just something about her that I just don’t like. She does look like she’s constantly devious and planning something and it’s annoying. 

 

I can't stand Elizabeth Moss.  Hated her on Mad Men.   Never understood what all the fuss was about.  Now she's ruined this series for me too.   I can't muster even an ounce of sympathy for June because Elizabeth Moss plays her smug and smirky, like her poop doesn't smell.   Her range as an actress seems painfully limited.   I keep hoping someone will kill June and the series can move on to other characters.   I know, not likely, but I can dream.

[millennium]

On 5/25/2018 at 12:01 AM, grublove said:

 

The scene between Nick and Eden didn't make me feel uncomfortable in anything close to a meaningful way. It made me roll my eyes and wonder which perv behind the scenes was exploiting what started out as a thoughtfully executed show.

 

It does happen.  Game of Thrones was mentioned a little earlier.   Which is timely, because your comment reminded me of this bit I read about one reason why Game of Thrones is sometimes over the top when it come to sex scenes.  It's exactly the sort of thing you were suggesting:

Then there’s this from Neil Marshall, who directed the second season episode “Blackwater” of “Game of Thrones”, and has described the ‘surreal’ experience of being urged by an unnamed executive producer to add more full-frontal nude shots to scenes during filming. The producer’s reasoning? He’s not on the ‘drama side’ of things; he represents the ‘perv side of the audience’.

http://www.indiewire.com/2014/06/game-of-thrones-sex-and-hbo-where-did-it-go-wrong-for-tvs-sexual-pioneers-214130/

Edited May 27, 2018 by millennium

[Anosmia]

On 5/25/2018 at 9:27 PM, legxleg said:

 I think the widows will be honored as brave victims of a terrorist, and sent around Gilead to tell their story and build up morale for the war. Maybe they'd be made some sort of high-class Aunts, but my guess is that some of the commanders who weren't there or who survived the blast will take the widows and children into their households - not as wives, but as sort of down-on-their-luck relations. 

That's one of my suspicions, too. The other one is that they have a widows' home (as existed in the past; there was one in my hometown) where they could live together and spend their time praying and knitting socks for the boys on the front. But of course that brings up the question of what happens to their kids, if they have any (via the handmaids). Like, say, little Angela, if the peevish wife raising her is widowed. I suppose the kids probably get "reassigned" to other commanders and their wives, because heaven forbid the widowed wives be single mothers. 

[Baltimore Betty]

Any widows could be Handmaids, right.  Talk about irony if that can really happen in Gilead.

[AnswersWanted]

4 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Any widows could be Handmaids, right.  Talk about irony if that can really happen in Gilead.

 

 Whether the wives are actually infertile or not, and from what we’ve gathered a lot of them probably are not in fact, but to be a handmaid you have to be a woman that has not been declared barren and all the wives have been.

The purpose of the handmaids system is due to the fact that the wives, supposedly, cannot have children themselves, so they would not be useful as handmaids according to the Gilead regime.

 Also to be a handmaid you have to be a disgraced, dirty, sinful woman, and while Gilead is pretty fucked up in general I don’t think that they would label a woman in that way just because she lost her husband through no fault of her own. 

Now if a wife does something that disgraces herself, as we saw in an earlier episode where a wife was sent to the colonies, that’s a whole other issue.

[greekmom]

Fred is a weak putz. Serena is off her bonker. That sex scene with Eden and Nick was so unrealistic.  Even if she did want it, as a 15 year old she would have been in pain and some humiliation with no foreplay to provide some lubrication and it being her first time. 

The explosion was so badass awesome!!!

[marinw]

Serena hovering over June was awful. I wonder if she believes the whole kidnapping story. I kept waiting for to snap and try to strangle June again. And how dumb was it for Serena to order June to pick up something long and stabby?

Like so many others here, I don’t know how to feel about Ofglen 2.0. So much to unpack here. 

The Rachel and Leah Centre looked so new and modern. It must have been a re-purposed university. Gilead can’t build anything new because they don’t have the work force or the resources and are too busy running their stupid theocracy. They can only maintain what they already have.

Edited May 28, 2018 by marinw

[Umbelina]

I'd be shocked if Serena believes the kidnapping story, since she's the one, along with Fred, who made it up.  Didn't they?  Wasn't that implied or am I mistaken?