S02.E09: The General / S02.E10: Chinatown

[saber5055]

Wyatt running up to the Eyeball as Jessica was taking off, and him getting blown back through the air was a spectacular shot, one they didn't have to do. But I thought it added a lot and was very cool. It also showed what a dimwit Wyatt is, so there's that too.

It's also interesting to see once Wyatt grows up a few more years, he becomes old enough to grow a full beard. Surprise!

[SiobhanJW]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

It's also interesting to see once Wyatt grows up a few more years, he becomes old enough to grow a full beard. Surprise!

It's possible my eyes were deceiving me- but didn't future Wyatt also look more muscular? LMAO. 

[Micha]

Quote

It's interesting that the new lifeboat showed up right after Wyatt told Lucy he loved her -- was that confession part of what set that future in motion? They possibly would have grown apart in the aftermath of these events otherwise, which might have meant they didn't end up teaming up to become badass future time travelers. – Shanna Marie

I was thinking the same thing, like that moment solidified their future which allowed the future Lucy and Wyatt to come back to bring back Rufus.

Quote

Oh man! I love Lucy with Wyatt, but I also love Lucy with Flynn!!-sonyab

I feel the same way, but with a Timeless twist.  I see each man as a pathway to a different future.  I see “Journal Lucy” as Flynn’s girl. I see “Historian Lucy” as Wyatt’s girl.  However, I think “Current Timeline Lucy” could end up with either of them and for different reasons (see below for more on that).

Quote

I do admit being a fan of Goran Visnjic, so I perhaps have a greater sympathy for Flynn than the character warrants, but I also get real heat from the flinty exchanges between Flynn and Lucy and definitely want to see more. – Cyranetta

I think Abigail Spencer/Lucy has wonderful chemistry with both of them, but I think she has a more intense chemistry with Flynn.

Quote

I especially like how Flynn changes Lucy, giving her a foil to strike some snark and sparks. She's much stronger opposite him than mooning over Wyatt. – statsgirl

I agree.  Flynn definitely challenges her and also allows her to be more authentically herself without making things about him (unfortunately, Wyatt does that often).

Speculation on the finale and Lucy’s place in the current timeline:

I loved the finale.  The season laid beautiful groundwork to get us to these episodes.  Now, I feel like we are running on all cylinders and the stories, the stakes and the characters are fully formed and have weight.  That is why we HAVE to have a Season 3 because the payoff for these stories and characters is waiting in Season 3.

One of the things that really jumped out to me in these two episodes was how much the timelines can change when our time travelers are in the past.  We all know what happened to Jessica when Wyatt and Lucy were in “Hollywoodland” starting their relationship.  What I wonder is whether similar things happened to any of the other characters without our knowledge…more specifically Flynn’s timeline and story?

We all know the original version of Flynn from last season where Lucy was simply a means to recovering his family.  However, what if something changed and the audience isn’t aware of it, like perhaps Lucy IS actually his wife in this NEW timeline. The way he talks about wanting to kill Wyatt and his connection with Lucy feels very deep.  He is almost desperate to make a connection with her in the Robert Johnson episode.  He is never happier or more engaged than when he is with Lucy.  I think we didn’t see these things happen and neither did Lucy and Wyatt because they were focused on Jessica.  Flynn is being Flynn and him not knowing the other timeline existed make this possible.

In this new timeline, we don't really know who his wife is, just that they were killed and that Lucy coming back in time spurred him to pull himself together.  I think is could be/ or is why he is now focused on helping to get his "wife" to remember him or to fall in love with him again (like Wyatt had to do with "new" Jessica).   That could be why he hasn't made more overt moves and why her relationship with Wyatt pisses him off so much.   If that is the case, it has some beautiful symmetry to the storylines and shows how each man is focused on recapturing his wife's love. I'd love to see this scenario play out and we can see who "Current Timeline Lucy" picks and who she evolves into..."Warrior Lucy" or "Mother Lucy" or a Lucy we haven't seen yet.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Micha

[DesertCyclist]

If a movie were to ever be made based on the PlayStation series Uncharted and they need a Nathan Drake, I think they could do worse than Matt Lanter.  Hopefully he's not acrophobic!

[legaleagle53]

On 5/15/2018 at 9:28 AM, misstwpherecool said:

 

This is why I think someone else was in on it. Maybe they learned a few movie tricks going back to Hollywood. Ad some drugs which Rufus is definately smart enough to research it possible con caper style. Wyatt and Rufus did have a blunt heart to heart in which the idea could've been brought up. I'm thinking in terms of a Leverage reveal.

Two words:  Occam's Razor.

On 5/15/2018 at 1:23 PM, Micha said:

I was thinking the same thing, like that moment solidified their future which allowed the future Lucy and Wyatt to come back to bring back Rufus.

I feel the same way, but with a Timeless twist.  I see each man as a pathway to a different future.  I see “Journal Lucy” as Flynn’s girl. I see “Historian Lucy” as Wyatt’s girl.  However, I think “Current Timeline Lucy” could end up with either of them and for different reasons (see below for more on that).

I think Abigail Spencer/Lucy has wonderful chemistry with both of them, but I think she has a more intense chemistry with Flynn.

I agree.  Flynn definitely challenges her and also allows her to be more authentically herself without making things about him (unfortunately, Wyatt does that often).

Speculation on the finale and Lucy’s place in the current timeline:

I loved the finale.  The season laid beautiful groundwork to get us to these episodes.  Now, I feel like we are running on all cylinders and the stories, the stakes and the characters are fully formed and have weight.  That is why we HAVE to have a Season 3 because the payoff for these stories and characters is waiting in Season 3.

One of the things that really jumped out to me in these two episodes was how much the timelines can change when our time travelers are in the past.  We all know what happened to Jessica when Wyatt and Lucy were in “Hollywoodland” starting their relationship.  What I wonder is whether similar things happened to any of the other characters without our knowledge…more specifically Flynn’s timeline and story?

We all know the original version of Flynn from last season where Lucy was simply a means to recovering his family.  However, what if something changed and the audience isn’t aware of it, like perhaps Lucy IS actually his wife in this NEW timeline. The way he talks about wanting to kill Wyatt and his connection with Lucy feels very deep.  He is almost desperate to make a connection with her in the Robert Johnson episode.  He is never happier or more engaged than when he is with Lucy.  I think we didn’t see these things happen and neither did Lucy and Wyatt because they were focused on Jessica.  Flynn is being Flynn and him not knowing the other timeline existed make this possible.

In this new timeline, we don't really know who his wife is, just that they were killed and that Lucy coming back in time spurred him to pull himself together.  I think is could be/ or is why he is now focused on helping to get his "wife" to remember him or to fall in love with him again (like Wyatt had to do with "new" Jessica).   That could be why he hasn't made more overt moves and why her relationship with Wyatt pisses him off so much.   If that is the case, it has some beautiful symmetry to the storylines and shows how each man is focused on recapturing his wife's love. I'd love to see this scenario play out and we can see who "Current Timeline Lucy" picks and who she evolves into..."Warrior Lucy" or "Mother Lucy" or a Lucy we haven't seen yet.

 

Again, Occam's Razor.  Your theory is simply too complex and full of variables for it to be the simplest, and therefore, the likeliest solution.

Edited May 17, 2018 by legaleagle53

[mythoughtis]

Rittenhouse can really make their people drink the koolaid. Give up their life to go spend years in the past, give up actual children to them, allow adult children to have never been born.  Let’s hope we never see them in real life. 

Lucy is not Flynn’s wife. He remembers meeting her when she is older than she is now - most likely the version of Lucy we saw at the end.  We just saw him say so an episode or so ago. That would also mean she’s not his daughter. Flynn is in love with Lucy. He just knows she’s not in love with him and therefore he keeps his feelings unshown must of the time. 

one question that bothered me this episode. Why would Mason and Denise be sitting around for hours when the group is gone? Couldn't they come back to a time 5 minutes after they left? Why would they need to actually lose time in the present? 

Edited May 16, 2018 by mythoughtis

[proserpina65]

I felt like the first hour needed to be much longer.  It seemed like the resolution for too quick, and Harriet Tubman got short shrift in favor of Wyatt's Jessica issues.  I would much rather have seen more of Rufus interacting with Ms. Tubman, who was both badass and vulnerable at the same time.

And speaking of Wyatt & Jessica - damn it, Wyatt, you idiot!  Yes, you are responsible for getting Rufus killed, because you had your doubts about your wife and said nothing.

Was it wrong of me to "WOO HOO!!!" when Emma killed Carol and her grandfather?  Too bad, so sad.

[MisterGlass]

20 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

one question that bothered me this episode. Why would Mason and Denise be sitting around for hours when the group is gone? Couldn't they come back to a time 5 minutes after they left? Why would they need to actually lose time in the present? 

This bothers me too.  I understand if they need to leave some window between going and coming, but it shouldn't correspond in real time to how long they've been gone.  This bothered me in the episode with young Christopher, too, while she spent hours in limbo about how things would change for her.

I also wonder how much time it takes for past changes to ripple forward and change the timeline.  There is some lag between when the mothership goes back and the lifeboat is launched.  Either the change is not instantaneous, or every time they go back and return it is to a slightly different universe.

[jcin617]

I just handwave that the presence of the lifeboat provides temporary localized protection from timeline changes.   (What good is a lifeboat if things go horribly wrong in the past that it alters the present).  Its why the changes our intrepid team makes are instantaneous when they return.  

Edited May 18, 2018 by jcin617

[vibeology]

On 5/16/2018 at 1:30 AM, mythoughtis said:

Lucy is not Flynn’s wife. He remembers meeting her when she is older than she is now - most likely the version of Lucy we saw at the end.  We just saw him say so an episode or so ago. That would also mean she’s not his daughter. Flynn is in love with Lucy. He just knows she’s not in love with him and therefore he keeps his feelings unshown must of the time. 

I don't know if I'm comfortable calling it love seeing as they've barely spent time together but Flynn is absolutely into Lucy. You know how Lucy gets giddy every time they meet a historical figure because she's read about that person her whole life and feels a connection to them? That's how Flynn feels every time he sees Lucy. He's read that journal over and over and he feels that connection to her that she doesn't have the experience to reciprocate. 

[ketose]

On 5/16/2018 at 10:04 PM, MisterGlass said:

This bothers me too.  I understand if they need to leave some window between going and coming, but it shouldn't correspond in real time to how long they've been gone.  This bothered me in the episode with young Christopher, too, while she spent hours in limbo about how things would change for her.

I also wonder how much time it takes for past changes to ripple forward and change the timeline.  There is some lag between when the mothership goes back and the lifeboat is launched.  Either the change is not instantaneous, or every time they go back and return it is to a slightly different universe.

I can tie it to the "waiting around for hours" thing. For the whole thing to work with the mothership and the lifeboat, if it takes 4 hours for Rittenhouse to change the timeline, the time team has that long to get into the lifeboat before the changes take effect. At the same time, if it takes them 4 hours to do their job, Agent Christopher and Mason have to wait around 4 hours for the lifeboat to return.

[bros402]

3 hours ago, ketose said:

I can tie it to the "waiting around for hours" thing. For the whole thing to work with the mothership and the lifeboat, if it takes 4 hours for Rittenhouse to change the timeline, the time team has that long to get into the lifeboat before the changes take effect. At the same time, if it takes them 4 hours to do their job, Agent Christopher and Mason have to wait around 4 hours for the lifeboat to return.

Maybe the changes don't kick in until the mothership returns + an indeterminate amount of time?

[Manda317]

8 hours ago, vibeology said:

I don't know if I'm comfortable calling it love seeing as they've barely spent time together but Flynn is absolutely into Lucy. You know how Lucy gets giddy every time they meet a historical figure because she's read about that person her whole life and feels a connection to them? That's how Flynn feels every time he sees Lucy. He's read that journal over and over and he feels that connection to her that she doesn't have the experience to reciprocate. 

I think that is a perfect description of their relationship. In addition to the connection he feels to her because of the journal, I also think he sees her as his savior. She has stopped him from his most horrendous acts, and she was the one that gave him hope after his family was murdered. I think he definitely feels more for her than she does for him, but I really think that they could be beautiful. It is sweet how he has now been there for her during her lowest moments as she was for him. Even if it doesn't turn into anything, I hope we get a scene between them where that is acknowledged. 

If Wyatt stops being so dumb and hard-headed, I could accept them together. I still think I would like Garcy more, but I wouldn't be mad at Lyatt. I would definitely be okay if Flynn gets his family back. At least his daughter. 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, bros402 said:

Maybe the changes don't kick in until the mothership returns + an indeterminate amount of time?

We've seen them come out of the mothership and ask a question - and things have already changed, so I'm not sure that's it.

I just handwave it that (for this season anyway) they just can't get the settings precise enough to jump back to minutes after they left.

[mythoughtis]

18 hours ago, ketose said:

I can tie it to the "waiting around for hours" thing. For the whole thing to work with the mothership and the lifeboat, if it takes 4 hours for Rittenhouse to change the timeline, the time team has that long to get into the lifeboat before the changes take effect. At the same time, if it takes them 4 hours to do their job, Agent Christopher and Mason have to wait around 4 hours for the lifeboat to return.

They can take as long as they want to get ready to go because they know when they are going to. For example they want to go to Month day year hour minute because that’s what the tracking device told them about the motherships trip. So they can land 5 minutes after the mothership did regardless of whether they hit the start button 5 minutes or 5 days after the mothership left to go to the past.  Think of it as coordinates like longitude and latitude. 

Which is why there is no reason for time to have passed in the present when they return other than they need it to be after they left so they don’t run into themselves leaving. 

When the  season started they knew the mothership had taken several trips since the explosion. They didnt know where or when because the tracking system was down.. so they had no way of jumping to those destinations and stopping the motherships goals. 

[bros402]

17 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

We've seen them come out of the mothership and ask a question - and things have already changed, so I'm not sure that's it.

I just handwave it that (for this season anyway) they just can't get the settings precise enough to jump back to minutes after they left.

Time Team comes out of the lifeboat, not the mothership :P

[thuganomics85]

Finally got around to this and things sure got crazy at the end, huh?

So, Rufus' death was apparently set in stone, as even though they thwarted him getting stabbed by the one henchman, he proceeds to get shot by Emma a few minutes later, and dies in Jiya's arms.  Ouch, that hurt!  I obvious know he won't be gone for good (I'm sure the big three; Lucy, Wyatt, Rufus; will always be safe for the long haul), but that was still sad, especially seeing Jiya's and Connor's reaction.

Oh, Wyatt, you lovestruck dummy!  I get that he didn't want to assume the worst of Jessica after getting her back, but he knew that her brother being alive was a huge red flag, but just couldn't bring himself to do anything about it, and now everything has gone to shit.  Wyatt really is not the brains of this operation.

I actually love that Emma just took Carol and Nicholas off the board.  I find her to be a way more fun villain, mainly due to Annie Wershing being a delight in the role.  I did love how they didn't go down a "Carol sees the error of her ways" route, as she did die saving Lucy, but was still babbling about how great Rittenhouse is, and why Lucy is important to that organization.  But overall, I'm curious to see how Emma (and Jessica) will handle being the new leader.

You know, if you need more spots to fill, NBC, you should totally green-light a Harriet Tubman: Badass Extraordinaire show.  I'd watch!

Hmm... either Flynn's got a big old crush on Lucy, or he's hiding something else from her.  Or maybe it's both!

But that ending!  Future Wyatt and Lucy are here and know of a way to save Rufus?  So many other questions, too.  Like is there a Future Jiya piloting now or did they find someone else?  Hell, maybe they've gotten to the point of auto-pilot now!

Fun season and the show is still generally an entertaining watch as well.  Too bad the ratings are horrible, but I hope it somehow survives.  I do think it would be wiser to just simply make it a summer show, because I do think it's just too light and fluffy to compete with the big ones during the regular season.  But that's not a bad thing: sometimes it is nice to just watch a show that is light and fluffy.

[shapeshifter]

50 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

…that hurt!  I obvious know he won't be gone for good (I'm sure the big three; Lucy, Wyatt, Rufus; will always be safe for the long haul

I didn't assume Rufus would survive, especially since it had been a plot point for so long.

 

53 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I actually love that Emma just took Carol and Nicholas off the board.  I find her to be a way more fun villain, mainly due to Annie Wershing being a delight in the role

Since this might be fini for the show, I will let this board and the universe know that I never got on the Emma-is-a-great-villian bandwagon. She has been more of a nuisance to me—a mosquito whose whines are cliches and whose bite can be lethal. IMO, it would have been better for Lucy to have shot her, and then, with her dying breath, Emma would have revealed that she was maybe Lucy's "illegitimate" half-sister or half-some relative, so that Lucy would not kill her again if and when she popped up alive again out of some time warp.

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

Time Team comes out of the lifeboat, not the mothership :P

Well, in my defense, they used to. Get off my lawn. :P

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Wyatt really is not the brains of this operation.

And for the most part, not really the brawn either. Though he brings the pretty.

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Since this might be fini for the show, I will let this board and the universe know that I never got on the Emma-is-a-great-villian bandwagon. She has been more of a nuisance to me—a mosquito whose whines are cliches and whose bite can be lethal. IMO, it would have been better for Lucy to have shot her, and then, with her dying breath, Emma would have revealed that she was maybe Lucy's "illegitimate" half-sister or half-some relative, so that Lucy would not kill her again if and when she popped up alive again out of some time warp.

I'll second that.

[mythoughtis]

The part that I found astounding is that Carol, and now Emma and Jessica are the brains of the sprawling all powerful Rittenhouse organization.  All these vast family lines and others following these three? Emma was stuck  in the past until a year ago. She’s going to run the whole organization? 

[Clanstarling]

20 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

The part that I found astounding is that Carol, and now Emma and Jessica are the brains of the sprawling all powerful Rittenhouse organization.  All these vast family lines and others following these three? Emma was stuck  in the past until a year ago. She’s going to run the whole organization? 

IIRC, she was stuck in the past for 10 years her time, not 10 years present time. And the time she was away from the present was minimal, I believe. It may have been before the events in the first season, but I don't think it was ten full years, because I don't believe the machines had been operating for that long. Could be wrong though. I find it hard to believe she'd run the whole operation in general - far too reactive and very little strategic thinking.

That may be the carrot to the sleepers - stay in the past until needed, but then come back to the present with very little time having passed. I think they've only had the mothership for, at most, a year. So the sleepers would return to a present where their families were almost the same - but of course, the longer they were in the past, the older they'd be when they returned. Which is why I think Rittenhouse never intended to bring any of them back. They'd be too visibly changed - too much of a smoking gun, as it were, to non-Rittenhouse people.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Clanstarling

[possibilities]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

You know, if you need more spots to fill, NBC, you should totally green-light a Harriet Tubman: Badass Extraordinaire show.  I'd watch!

Harriet Tubman DEFINITELY deserves a miniseries AT LEAST. She was truly one of the most badass people of all time. They wouldn't have to do anything to make it more dramatic, they could just make it a straight up factual presentation and it would still be the most mind-blowing story ever.

[threebluestars]

The actress that played her was great - I would be on board for her getting her own Harriet Tubman show.

I really love how much I'm learning about history in this show. I find that aspect really fun.

[Terrafamilia]

When Jiya told Rufus that his death was going down at 7 o'clock I was going 'what time is it now? Not 7? LEAVE NOW!!!'. When Rufus heard that he would be stabbed in the gut he should have stuffed his shirt with a book or something.

[ketose]

On 5/19/2018 at 9:39 AM, mythoughtis said:

The part that I found astounding is that Carol, and now Emma and Jessica are the brains of the sprawling all powerful Rittenhouse organization.  All these vast family lines and others following these three? Emma was stuck  in the past until a year ago. She’s going to run the whole organization? 

Supposedly, most of the important Rittenhouse people went to jail because of Lucy's paternal grandfather. How Lucy's own grandfather didn't know about Carol being Rittenhouse is in my top 3 of major plot holes in the show.

[bros402]

12 hours ago, ketose said:

Supposedly, most of the important Rittenhouse people went to jail because of Lucy's paternal grandfather. How Lucy's own grandfather didn't know about Carol being Rittenhouse is in my top 3 of major plot holes in the show.

He probably did, but didn't want to have Carol arrested.

[BooBear]

On 5/17/2018 at 9:31 PM, vibeology said:

I don't know if I'm comfortable calling it love seeing as they've barely spent time together but Flynn is absolutely into Lucy. You know how Lucy gets giddy every time they meet a historical figure because she's read about that person her whole life and feels a connection to them? That's how Flynn feels every time he sees Lucy. He's read that journal over and over and he feels that connection to her that she doesn't have the experience to reciprocate. 

Agreed. I think he truly does feel like he knows her and is close to her but Lucy doesn't feel that way.  It is interesting to speculate though on what the massive changes to the timeline have brought about for Flynn. Not that I am saying Lucy is the wife that got killed but like Wyatt he might choose to move on.  He even mentioned in a season 1 episode that even if he got his wife and child back he would leave them as he knows he has turned into something quite nasty.  Perhaps the only person who could understand his journey would be Lucy.

I think the show has enough now to pivot away from Rittenhouse and start the time team working on changing all the damage they did to history.  I think that alone could provide enough fodder for season 3.

[ketose]

20 hours ago, bros402 said:

He probably did, but didn't want to have Carol arrested.

Except that he had his own son arrested. Plus, Carol keeps telling Lucy that somehow their family is even more important in Rittenhouse than other members.

[bros402]

3 hours ago, ketose said:

Except that he had his own son arrested. Plus, Carol keeps telling Lucy that somehow their family is even more important in Rittenhouse than other members.

Maybe he didn't like his son :P

I wonder if they are descendants of the original Rittenhouse?

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

Maybe he didn't like his son :P

I wonder if they are descendants of the original Rittenhouse?

I think it has to do with Carol's grandpa Keane (?) - the guy they retrieved from WWI. He was their "visionary", I think.

[legaleagle53]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

Maybe he didn't like his son :P

I wonder if they are descendants of the original Rittenhouse?

Probably.  As Carol somewhat bluntly told Emma, REAL Rittenhouse is blood and blood ONLY.  That's what finally pissed Emma off to the point that she basically said "Screw the bloodlines!" and killed both Carol AND Nicholas without even blinking.  Emma didn't take kindly to being told that she would always be an expendable second-class citizen in an organization to which she had pledged her undying loyalty.

[Wordsworth]

What was disrupting that one Civil War raid supposed to accomplish?  The Battle of Vicksburg had been won by the Union in July of 1863; this was September.  It is highly unlikely that this one raid would have tipped the scales in the Civil War.

[Jadzia]

I finally watched the finale and I may have been multi-tasking and missed something, but I thought the Lifeboat only held 4 people. So why did they go to rescue Jiya with 4 people? I guess it worked out that Rufus died so they had a place for her.

[Manda317]

On 5/20/2018 at 2:23 PM, ketose said:

Supposedly, most of the important Rittenhouse people went to jail because of Lucy's paternal grandfather. How Lucy's own grandfather didn't know about Carol being Rittenhouse is in my top 3 of major plot holes in the show.

I wonder if she left Rittenhouse when she met Amy's father. When she didn't meet him, she remained in the organization. When she described having Lucy it seemed as though she questioned her loyalty. I think she left when she met him, but stayed when she didn't because she didn't have anywhere else to go. That means when the show ends with Amy being saved, it will also turn out that her entire life wasn't a lie. She will have her family back.

[Cobb Salad]

1 hour ago, Jadzia said:

I finally watched the finale and I may have been multi-tasking and missed something, but I thought the Lifeboat only held 4 people. So why did they go to rescue Jiya with 4 people? I guess it worked out that Rufus died so they had a place for her.

Right before they left for 1888 Rufus (I think) said something about making 2 trips.

3 hours ago, Wordsworth said:

What was disrupting that one Civil War raid supposed to accomplish?  The Battle of Vicksburg had been won by the Union in July of 1863; this was September.  It is highly unlikely that this one raid would have tipped the scales in the Civil War.

I’m not sure but I find it hard to believe that what Rittenhouse was trying to accomplish there would entirely change the outcome of the Civil War.   What I found laughable was Lucy, Wyatt, Rufus and Flynn all knew their Civil War history but the Rittenhouse plant needed a book (a rather thin book too!) to tell him what to do.  They couldn’t recruit a Civil War reenactor for this?   Lol.  

[TexasGal]

On 19/05/2018 at 8:50 PM, Terrafamilia said:

When Jiya told Rufus that his death was going down at 7 o'clock I was going 'what time is it now? Not 7? LEAVE NOW!!!'. When Rufus heard that he would be stabbed in the gut he should have stuffed his shirt with a book or something.

This!  I thought the same thing.  Oh good, he definitely dies right after 7 in this place so lets totally just hang around here until then.  Huh?

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, Cobb Salad said:

Right before they left for 1888 Rufus (I think) said something about making 2 trips.

Which somehow goes against the tenet that they can't go back to a time they have already visited, or so I thought.

4 hours ago, Wordsworth said:

What was disrupting that one Civil War raid supposed to accomplish?

According to the Wiki article, the Confederates tried to win a position outside of Vicksburg, but were repulsed by a force from the recently enlisted "United States Colored Troops".  Interestingly enough, the article states that the Union forces suffered almost 700 casualties, approximately the same amount of slaves as Lucy states that would be freed in Harriet Tubman's raid.  Often times this show takes a nugget of information from real life to form a gold strike of an episode.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

According to the Wiki article, the Confederates tried to win a position outside of Vicksburg, but were repulsed by a force from the recently enlisted "United States Colored Troops".  Interestingly enough, the article states that the Union forces suffered almost 700 casualties, approximately the same amount of slaves as Lucy states that would be freed in Harriet Tubman's raid.  Often times this show takes a nugget of information from real life to form a gold strike of an episode.

Am I the only one having fun imagining that the article has been rewritten due to time travelers' high jinx?

[Cobb Salad]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Which somehow goes against the tenet that they can't go back to a time they have already visited, or so I thought.

According to the Wiki article, the Confederates tried to win a position outside of Vicksburg, but were repulsed by a force from the recently enlisted "United States Colored Troops".  Interestingly enough, the article states that the Union forces suffered almost 700 casualties, approximately the same amount of slaves as Lucy states that would be freed in Harriet Tubman's raid.  Often times this show takes a nugget of information from real life to form a gold strike of an episode.

They did in the episode when they brought young JFK to the present and left Flynn to deal with the Rittenhouse sleeper agent.  I think the way it works is they can’t be there at the same moment but later on isn’t a problem.  

[Dowel Jones]

49 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one having fun imagining that the article has been rewritten due to time travelers' high jinx?

The next logical step is the actors getting their contracts rewritten, at a substantial improvement of course.

[bros402]

16 hours ago, Wordsworth said:

What was disrupting that one Civil War raid supposed to accomplish?  The Battle of Vicksburg had been won by the Union in July of 1863; this was September.  It is highly unlikely that this one raid would have tipped the scales in the Civil War.

I think it was part of a larger scheme by Rittenhouse to disrupt the Union's actions in the south. And, well, killing Harriet Tubman would be useful. 

[KaveDweller]

On 5/22/2018 at 12:00 PM, Jadzia said:

I finally watched the finale and I may have been multi-tasking and missed something, but I thought the Lifeboat only held 4 people. So why did they go to rescue Jiya with 4 people? I guess it worked out that Rufus died so they had a place for her.

They said they wanted to have as many people as possible around to help get Jiya. They were going to do two trips like they did with JFK.

[sarthaz]

On 5/14/2018 at 2:08 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

So, the whole Nicholas Rittenhouse plot went nowhere. They embarked on this important trek to save his life and bring him to the future, and set him up ostensibly to be the Big Bad. Yet in the entire season, he did absolutely nothing, didn't seemingly mastermind any plans (at least none that the rest of Rittenhouse wasn't already doing in S1), didn't interact with the heroes, and then gets shot in the head when Emma decides she's had enough. What a waste of a character.

This was my favorite part of the episode. It was basically an admission by TPTB that the storyline was shit and made no sense and needed to go. Probably the best episode of the series so far. Most eps I find eye-rollingly forgettable, but this one was sharp and effective. That said, doesn't the lifeboat traveling to a time where the lifeboat currently exists violate their flimsy rules of time travel?

[shapeshifter]

11 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

This was my favorite part of the episode. It was basically an admission by TPTB that the storyline was shit and made no sense and needed to go. Probably the best episode of the series so far. Most eps I find eye-rollingly forgettable, but this one was sharp and effective. That said, doesn't the lifeboat traveling to a time where the lifeboat currently exists violate their flimsy rules of time travel?

Totally. But will not bringing the Rittenhouse mess to an end with the first season prove to have been a fatal decision WRT a third season? Like too little too late?

Anyway, I'd be delighted if it turns out they were eventually visited by more technologically advanced time travelers from the future with a solution to the silly rule about running into yourself. They could name drop a Commander Data or a Captain Carter who fixed it with naquada or kryptonite or maybe microsopic-sized black holes.

[Cthulhudrew]

53 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

That said, doesn't the lifeboat traveling to a time where the lifeboat currently exists violate their flimsy rules of time travel?

I don't think it has anything to do with the lifeboat, per se, but rather the people traveling in it are supposedly unable to travel to a period of time in which they already exist. 

Which obviously gets solved at some point, given the last minute of this ep.

[legaleagle53]

15 hours ago, sarthaz said:

This was my favorite part of the episode. It was basically an admission by TPTB that the storyline was shit and made no sense and needed to go. Probably the best episode of the series so far. Most eps I find eye-rollingly forgettable, but this one was sharp and effective. That said, doesn't the lifeboat traveling to a time where the lifeboat currently exists violate their flimsy rules of time travel?

 

14 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I don't think it has anything to do with the lifeboat, per se, but rather the people traveling in it are supposedly unable to travel to a period of time in which they already exist. 

Which obviously gets solved at some point, given the last minute of this ep.

Which was exactly the point of that last scene.  Clearly the problem gets solved sometime within the next five years.  We just haven't been told HOW it gets solved yet.

[willco]

Just rewatching this today because I missed bits and pieces during finale night. Just in general, for the first hour, Wyatt is a real ass ! Talk about being blinded by love goggles. If he was a teenager- and not an experienced soldier !!- I could understand. But no, everyone else is wrong & I'm right. It's pretty bad when Flynn, who is suppose to be the villain, is the calm, rational one. I sure hope (when, not if) this is renewed, that Flynn becomes an accepted part of the team. He did some bad things, but it always seemed to me like he was doing what he thought he needed to do to complete the mission he was on. I suppose you could argue that Wyatt feels the same, but it's just not the same.

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, willco said:

Just rewatching this today because I missed bits and pieces during finale night. Just in general, for the first hour, Wyatt is a real ass ! Talk about being blinded by love goggles. If he was a teenager- and not an experienced soldier !!- I could understand. But no, everyone else is wrong & I'm right. It's pretty bad when Flynn, who is suppose to be the villain, is the calm, rational one. I sure hope (when, not if) this is renewed, that Flynn becomes an accepted part of the team. He did some bad things, but it always seemed to me like he was doing what he thought he needed to do to complete the mission he was on. I suppose you could argue that Wyatt feels the same, but it's just not the same.

On the other hand, Lucy understood why Wyatt was so slow on the uptake where Jessica was concerned.  She herself had been through something similar when she found out that her own mother was Rittenhouse.  Indeed, she had even believed right up until Carol died that Carol could somehow be redeemed, and it was only after Carol proved just how hardcore Rittenhouse she was by expressing as her dying wish that Lucy would stop trying to fight her heritage and claim her rightful place as the leader of Rittenhouse that Lucy realized how wrong she'd been about Carol.   As she even pointed out to Flynn, he himself wouldn't necessarily have been so quick to believe the worst about his own wife and daughter if they had suddenly come back.  So it's easy for her to cut Wyatt some slack for being a dumbass about Jessica, which is why she told him that she didn't blame him for Rufus's death.  What she DID blame him for, however, was destroying the relationship that he'd started building with Lucy by pursuing Jessica (as she had encouraged him to do) and at the same time acting like a jealous, possessive ass anytime Flynn and Lucy got within ten feet of each other or spent more than ten minutes together.

Edited May 29, 2018 by legaleagle53

[possibilities]

What if you travel to a time in the future after you're already dead? Could you do that? Have they ever said?

[legaleagle53]

16 minutes ago, possibilities said:

What if you travel to a time in the future after you're already dead? Could you do that? Have they ever said?

They've never said, and the showrunners have made it clear that they have no interest in ever going to the future to find out.  They feel that the past has enough real stories to tell for them to want or need to send the Time Team to the future.  Their focus is solely on history, not predicting what will be 50 or 100 years from now.