S10.E04: War and P.O.S

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Again, they were already divorced so he didn't have any leverage on her. 

None of us can say definitively, that he does or does not have any leverage. 

The rich elite are masters at dangling golden carrots.  So even this many years after the divorce, I believe he still exercises some leverage over her. The possibilities are endless.

I'm not saying he's doing it, but it certainly can be done. Divorce or not.

[Natalie68]

6 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-10/blogs/tinsley-mortimer/tinsley-mortimer-im-starting

In response to your blog last week, Countess, please don’t try to imply that I’m the one who is pretentious or criticize the whole city of Richmond because I was a debutante. At least I don’t use embarrassing sobriquets to embellish myself.... God I love some Tinsley ***full disclosure i had to google Sobriquets*** lol

So did I!  

[ghoulina]

14 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Why is it that every meal shown, Sonja is stuffing her face like she hasn't eaten in a week?

Because she's eating on someone else's dime. Back at the townhouse, it's just cold, grey water. 

[Natalie68]

6 hours ago, lezlers said:

You guys?  I think I might've misheard Sonja.  Did she SERIOUSLY say that people shouldn't spread gossip?  Ms. Page Six?  Really?  REALLY?  The woman is completely unhinged.  Like, something is legitimately wrong with her (outside of being a raging narcissist.)

Dorinda might have a hell of a mean streak, but she is the queen of one liners.  I'm already looking for "liar liar ho on fire!" swag!

Not gonna lie, I am waiting to be able to hurl this at one of my friends.

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

So did I!  

I just highlighted the word in your reply and clicked on ‘Look Up’.  Cuz I’m too lazy to google.  But dang, Tinsley has a good education in high society shade.

[jaync]

Quote

And, just as important, what kind of moron abides by that instruction???  If he's that dumb he deserves that bitchy B.  

Beth said she only dates billionaires with private planes, so apparently the normally desirable attributes one might look for in a partner - such as not being married - aren't a priority for her.

Quote

It's just that she's had ENOUGH of Sonja embellishing everything and using things from the way past to excuse what's going on in her life NOW.

But, Sonja wasn't doing that when Dorinda went ham at the brunch.

Quote

The rich elite are masters at dangling golden carrots.  So even this many years after the divorce, I believe he still exercises some leverage over her. The possibilities are endless.

Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan told Sonja that he would fund the movie project, and then reneged once it got rolling. (That's not to say at all that she wasn't responsible for the lawsuit and its outcome.)

[islandgal140]

For someone who looks like a Marvel villain and has made his fortune in predatory financing Dennis was indeed underwhelming.  I was expecting shades of Anthony Scaramucci (the "Mooch") for some reason. 

On 4/26/2018 at 1:20 AM, Linderville said:

I'm sorry if I'm not posting this correctly. I'm kind of new at posting.

My husband left me a year ago on Christmas. We had been together 25 years. I had no clue anything was wrong. I thought we had a good marriage; friends told me they were envious. I loved my husband with all my heart and I would have died for him without hesitation. Thru our marriage, I had great anxiety about him dying and couldn't bear to think about losing my best friend. Now I realize, It would have been so much easier if he had died. I would not be suffering the rejection, that at 58, after cancer, I was no longer desirable to him. I get to live knowing he is now with somebody quite a bit younger. Worried I am going to see them together. It's really difficult not to picture all the things my husband said and did to me, he is now saying and doing to someone else. I am just as alone as if he had died.

Carole said you just go into court and sign a paper. Not exactly. My heart is truly broken. It's excruciating to know the person who was always on your side is now working against you. I lost my health insurance. He got half of my inheritance from my parents, half of the house I had paid off, before we were married. If he had died, I would be financially stable. I spent my whole life making sure I would be financially set in my older years, and now I'm not. At all. He is still fighting for more and I'm afraid to even open my email or listen to my phone messages. My best friend is now cold and heartless to me. I have spent a year in therapy, I've tried many antidepressants, I have been suicidal for the first time in my life. I can't even express to you the darkness this last year has been for me. I have lost his family, and I wouldn't have if he had died. I am just as alone as any widow, but I have to deal with a whole lot more. And I can't look at photographs for comfort, or think about sweet memories. They're all tainted and I'm not sure what was ever real now. I do not wish ill upon my husband, but no one is going to convince me that it wouldn't have been easier for me if he had died.
 

I'm editing this to say, I forgot the most important thing: if he had died, rather than left me, our love would still be intact.

Eloquent and poignant post. Thanks for sharing. Reading this made me think of a moment when Bethenny seemingly agreed with Sonja that death and divorce were equivalent. At one point B said something like 'the guy is still walking around' and at the time I thought she said it in a bit of a wistful, wishful way that maybe she wished Jason had died. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, ryebread said:

I'm not an attorney, but isn't it possible he could have had an addendum when she signed on the show? But anyway, yes, we've heard her briefly mention him but I don't ever recall her saying anything negative. Vague recollection of when she thought she was meeting him and it was going to turn out well and it didn't but I don't remember the particulars - like if she dissed him or not.

P.S. When I just said "vague recollection", my voice-to-text wrote, "Vera Wang Collection". 

I was vaguely amused.

About the only thing I almost remember is when she was stressing about where to hang his portrait or something.  It was as if he were dead.  She's a straight up nutty chick.

[LIMOM]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Again, they were already divorced so he didn't have any leverage on her. I suspect that Sonja didn't smack talk him in the early years because she hoped he would take her back even though he was already remarried but more so because she knew it would hurt Quincy. It is clear that Sonja adores her daughter and would never say anything bad about her father that would/could hurt her. 

They were divorced however the financial settlement was still pending. There were many delays in selling the houses and Morgan was taking his time to pay her.

It is my view, that hislawyers used the legal system in order to intimidate and punish Sonja.

Of course, Sonja loves her daughter. What does it have to do with the price of butter? 

[islandgal140]

5 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I'm not an attorney, but isn't it possible he could have had an addendum when she signed on the show? But anyway, yes, we've heard her briefly mention him but I don't ever recall her saying anything negative. Vague recollection of when she thought she was meeting him and it was going to turn out well and it didn't but I don't remember the particulars - like if she dissed him or not.

I kinda remember this and it was Sonja at her most pathetic and sad. I just remember her taking particular care to dress, wear her hair and makeup the way he liked, which by the looks of it seems he likes the patrician look. There seemed to be a "Story of Us" starring Sonja and JPM behind every article of clothing, jewelry and even the perfume she wore. All designed I imagine to invoke some type of nostalgia in him and soften his hardened heart. The impression I got was that if she could just get in a room with him and talk all would be alright i.e., he would be generous and throw a couple of sack of gold coins her way and make all her money troubles go away. Now I can't tell you if she was expecting full reconciliation, have him divorce his wife and re-marry her or she was willing to settle for being a mistress or she would just settle for $$$ but she was expecting something that would better her situation.  Welp, he didn't show - just his lawyers. Plan foiled!!

After the failed meetup, I don't believe Sonja bad mouthed him she was just angry that he would have nothing to do with her, see her or talk to her. I get the impression that he only deals with her to parent their daughter and is totally cold towards her. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by islandgal140

[KungFuBunny]

18 hours ago, ChitChat said:

That's why I think LuAnn is seeing something the others aren't picking up on.  She tried to diffuse the situation with Dorinda, but she wasn't having any of it.   IMO, they all have their faults and issues, but if they continue the pile on with Sonja, she will become the one that many viewers sympathize with and the other ladies will end up looking like turds.   I hope the whole season isn't about continually berating her.  That's going to get old real quick.  On the other hand, if Sonja continues to lie about the other ladies, then she has no one to blame but herself.  Oh what a tangled web she weaves! 

Actually, Luann is keeping her NYC prospects open - she needs a place to crash while they are filming. I don't see Carole, Bethenny, Ramona or Tinsley offering to let her stay with them.

Also at Luann's brunch - both Luann and Ramona went to Dorinda to comfort Dorinda. I didn't see either running to comfort Sonja or validate what Sonja said. I felt bad for Mary - she looked like she wanted to run for the hills but was trapped.

[WireWrap]

34 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

They were divorced however the financial settlement was still pending. There were many delays in selling the houses and Morgan was taking his time to pay her.

It is my view, that hislawyers used the legal system in order to intimidate and punish Sonja.

Of course, Sonja loves her daughter. What does it have to do with the price of butter? 

I think Sonja has kept quiet about her, for the most part, because of their daughter.

[film noire]

3 hours ago, dosodog said:

It's been 4 1/2 years since he died.  In order to be hired at a new job, I have to complete a CPR class.  No big deal right?  I had to perform CPR on Jim until the paramedics arrived.  Yeah.  The coroner made it clear to me that he would not have survived regardless. And yet?  Somehow I'm going to have to find the courage to perform CPR on a dummy, in front of a group of people and not fall apart at the seams with every memory of that night.  I will reexperience seeing him dying, reexperience the gurgling noises he made while he died, reexperience the utter helplessness of that night.  

Oh, dodosdog -- you write about him so beautifully  (even when the details are difficult   - I still think of that line you wrote awhile back, about your man, your pretty truck and your sweet dog, all on a wild road together). 

To me, the difference between divorce and death is that divorce mourns what you thought you had as a couple,  whereas (in a happy marriage) death mourns the loss of everything you actually had as a couple -- regardless, healing & good thoughts to anyone battling either situation.  

 

2 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

To me it's a natural I think to mention my husband on occasion because he was funny smart complicated and kind and you want his memory to remain.  

And I don't think the relationship ends just because somebody died. That person is still a spouse or a parent or a child or a dear friend -- you know they'd laugh throughout the movie you just saw, or you wish they could taste a dish you know they'd love, or see a sunset with their favorite colours -- it's only natural to talk about them in moments like that, imo. 

Sonja doesn't do that with whatever grief (if grief it is) she feels around her divorce   -- she talks about the set and setting of her old life (whereas Dorinda talks about who she shared the set and setting with. Carole did so too, on that trip to London). And even if Sonja is forbidden to speak of him, there are graceful ways to make it clear you miss special people in your old life more than any yacht or house (or friggin' updo in Gstaad).

Edited April 27, 2018 by film noire

[janie2002]

4 minutes ago, film noire said:

Oh, dodosdog -- you write about him so beautifully  (even when the details are difficult   - I still think of that line you wrote awhile back, about your man, your pretty truck and your sweet dog, all on a wild road together). 

To me, the difference between divorce and death is that divorce mourns what you thought you had as a couple,  whereas (in a happy marriage) death mourns the loss of everything you actually had as a couple -- regardless, healing & good thoughts to anyone battling either situation.  

 

And I don't think the relationship ends just because somebody died. That person is still a spouse or a parent or a child or a dear friend -- you know they'd laugh throughout the movie you just saw, or you wish they could taste a dish you know they'd love, or see a sunset with their favorite colours -- it's only natural to talk about them in moments like that, imo. 

And Sonja doesn't do that with whaever her grief is over her divorce   -- she talks about the set and setting of her old life (whereas Dorinda talks about who she shared the set and setting with). 

I completely agree. It what they are mourning that is the difference. B saying there is no difference is silly imo

 

Dorinda speaks of Richard because things remind her of him and he seemed like the love of her life. That will not change. Sonja mourns the materialistic stuff and not only that she still talks like she had it last week and could next week. That is what is frustrating. 

[noveltylibrary]

On 4/26/2018 at 12:57 AM, Drumpf1737 said:

Sonja's entire existence is the past. 

Absolutely! I keep thinking Miss Haversham, much?

[KungFuBunny]

10 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I've been taking anti-depressants for years and haven't gained weight. It depends on what type you're taking. I wonder if Sonja is on some other medication. Alcohol certainly doesn't help. I know she's said she's not drinking but I don't believe her. 

I don't think Sonja is on any medication. I don't think she's gone to a real doctor. The woman can't afford a dentist - she Super Glues her teeth back on.

She is using the "story" of being on anti-depressants to excuse her behavior and to explain away her "weight gain"

I'd say her weight gain is from stuffing her face with food and alcohol.

I also don't think she's been sober. If we're to believe she throws weekly Wednesday parties at her house - are we also supposed to believe she doesn't imbibe? Last season, in Mexico when she claimed sobriety - she was already sucking down the welcome to the resort drink - she couldn't avoid temptation long enough to unpack.

[Jel]

5 hours ago, teapot said:

I am the complete opposite.

drink too much wine?  menopausal

forget convo w/husband b/c of aforementioned wine drinkage?  menopause!

jeans don't fit (probs b/c of wine bloat) menopause!

misplace papers at work and find them w/the 2001 files?  menopause!

who's gonna check me, boo???

Teapot, can we add "eat an entire container of Ben and Jerry's"? Menopause! (Except there's very little pausing in the scarfing).

[KungFuBunny]

10 hours ago, Lizzing said:

There are a couple of races around here that would be perfect for these housewives; one is a 5K with wine stops along the way and another is a 5K through an actual vineyard with wine at the end.  I'm sure Ramona would love them and she wouldn't even have to run!

Speaking of Ramona, I'm kinda surprised she didn't bring up her divorce at any point.  It's weird that she seems the most well adjusted post divorce of all the other divorced women on the show.  Like, sign of the apocalypse weird.  I'm sure it won't last, but I'm finding "Ramona, Unlikely Voice of Reason" from The Soup jangling around my brain so far.  

I love Ramona and would so want to see her do this, only she'll have the wine before, during, and after....

Carole's the one in the middle - an homage to her running/jogging technique

[film noire]

Carole's blog is up (posting here b/c it's very directly about the episode / what we're discussing):

"Here’s a story: A 30-year-old restaurant hostess marries a wealthy man 25 years her senior. They love each other. Deeply. They have a kid. They buy a home, they travel the world, and host parties on yachts. Six years go by, then eight, then 10. The older man’s stories start to dull. The young pretty wife gets restless. Their eyes, once gazed longingly at each other, start to wander. Their marriage is marked by infidelities on both sides until one files for divorce. It’s not so shocking, is it? This story is played out countless times a year across the country. To talk about a marriage over a decade later, as though you had no hand in its demise, is frustrating for those who’ve had to listen to the historical re-write.

And it is definitely not the same as burying a husband—not even close. Signing a divorce document, after you’ve racked up lawyers' bills fighting over who gets the sconces, is not like signing a death certificate. It’s not like having to make life and death decisions when a doctor tells you there is little left to do but hope and pray. So you hope and pray for one more day—please one more day that is all I want. Then I’ll be ready. One more day—but, of course, that is the big lie. You will never be ready when your partner dies in the middle of his young life. You wait as the life and love slowly and painfully ebbs out of him until he is barely recognizable to you any longer. You wait until the man you thought you’d spend the rest of your life with struggles to take his very last breath. Then you wait and sit in the deafening silence that is death still praying, now begging, for one more day. The time between that last breath and the silence can last for eternity. Or at least six years, which is when Dorinda’s late husband Richard died, in the beginning of their life together."

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-10/blogs/carole-radziwill/carole-radziwill-death-and

Edited April 27, 2018 by film noire

[Jel]

7 hours ago, ryebread said:

Speaking of breaking the fourth wall. Perhaps the wall is why Sonja is so upset at Ramona and just upset in general.

It's possible, old man Morgan had Sonja sign something when she joined the show that A.) Quincy could not appear and B.) that she could not drag his name through the mud, or else.

Lots of posts here about how she doesn't talk about John so clearly that must mean she only misses the trappings of the marriage. Perhaps she can't talk about him. I'd be pissed too if I had to listen to Dorinda et al rail on about how I was a ho and responsible for the demise of that union, which, might not be the entire truth.

And not being able to stick up for myself? Yeah, I'd be sending an epic email to my former bestie who didn't at least try to defend me on the down low. 

I agree, and Dorinda's so bloody mean-spirited about it, too. She doesn't even give a courtesy fake response in whispered tones, like "oh such a pity, about you know, the affair". Nope, she's right in her face, accusing, mocking, taunting.  I can't ever reconcile hating someone for doing something and then doing the very same thing to the person you're hating on. If it's hateful behavior, it's hateful. Doesn't make it any better because someone else did it first. Are they not teaching "two wrongs don't make a right" these days or what?

[KungFuBunny]

9 hours ago, LIMOM said:

She might have a rude awakening

she said the house is historical thus She might have trouble getting permits.

This is Long Island after all and we are among the best when it comes to the NIMBY arena. 

In the South of the highway talk between Bethenny and Ramona – neither one was 100% right.

When Bethenny announced she bought a house in the Hamptons at the Halloween Party, I thought like Ramona she bought a house she was going to renovate and then flip/sell to make a profit. Under this assumption, Ramona is correct most buyers are not going to look at a house on a highway. There are several reasons, the traffic and noise, hedges might give you a bit of privacy but it won’t drown out the noise. Highways allow commercial traffic – how loud is it going to get if trucks are barreling down at all hours? It looked like a good amount of cars on that road when Bethenny walked over there with Carole and Tinsley. The other reason most don’t buy a home on a highway is for security reasons. Homes near a freeway, highway, or a thruway to a bigger highway are robbed more often. Thieves roll up in a truck, empty the house and then make a quick getaway on a thoroughfare.

I didn’t realize Bethenny was buying it as an “investment property” to use as a rental and then maybe eventually sell it. She will make money but it will take her a few years to make back her investment before she sees any profit. I don’t see this being rented out for the entire year – most likely just rented from Memorial Day through Labor Day. This house won’t rent for as much money as Ramona’s place due to the location. She said 8 bedrooms, 6 baths. Most houses in the Hamptons have more baths then bedrooms. It will most likely be rented to a group of  people of the Bravo Summer House variety. I don’t see this house going to a big family to rent for the summer – for the price of renting they could put that money down as a deposit to buy. Bethenny is going to have to furnish the place, and hire a property manager, they are going to have to go through vetting potential renters. Maintaining the property and property taxes will bleed money. She’s also going to have security in place for the off season.

I can see her making money – but this isn’t going to be easy and it will be years before she makes her 2,350,000 back – I see SKG headaches in her future – if not for Bethenny than for Wassamatter and Wassgoingon.

[KungFuBunny]

8 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

So the episode title is a play on War & Peace, I guess. Do most people say, “Pos,” when they see, “P.O.S.”? I’ve been saying, “Pee Oh Ess.”

War and "Piece" Of Shit

[KungFuBunny]

7 hours ago, ryebread said:

Speaking of breaking the fourth wall. Perhaps the wall is why Sonja is so upset at Ramona and just upset in general.

It's possible, old man Morgan had Sonja sign something when she joined the show that A.) Quincy could not appear and B.) that she could not drag his name through the mud, or else.

Lots of posts here about how she doesn't talk about John so clearly that must mean she only misses the trappings of the marriage. Perhaps she can't talk about him. I'd be pissed too if I had to listen to Dorinda et al rail on about how I was a ho and responsible for the demise of that union, which, might not be the entire truth.

And not being able to stick up for myself? Yeah, I'd be sending an epic email to my former bestie who didn't at least try to defend me on the down low. 

Mr Morgan didn't have to make Sonja sign anything.

For a minor to appear on a show - the approval/consent has to be given by both parents. Now once she turns 18 - Quincy might do the show but if Daddy says no way I will cut your allowance - she won't be on.

As for Sonja, dragging him through the mud - I think his team has the money to sue and win. He could also keep it tied up in the court system forever and expose the dossier he has on Sonja. For these reasons, she wouldn't dare go down that road.

[heavysnaxx]

On 4/25/2018 at 8:30 PM, pieinmyeye said:

 

I'm still trying to figure out what she was expecting. Pendants saying "New York Marathon", someone firing off the starting shot in the foyer, water (or in their case wine), handed to them as they ran to the buffet. She truly sounded like a whiny child (or teenager) who didn't get what they wanted for their birthday.

Because I never took gym at Miss Porter’s, I have no idea how to accessorize a marathon-themed dinner party, unless it means creating fun and festive sneaker-scapes or setting up a welcoming gauntlet where your honoree is pelted with cocktails and Chex Party Mix.

That said, I say Kadooz to Ramona for nailing it, in the spirit category. What her party lacked in marathon paraphernalia – stopwatches? Sweaty socks? Life-size cardboard cut-outs of Dustin Hoffman? – it made up for in that most basic feature of any marathon: It would have been enhanced by a Vangelis score, preferably a mash-up of Chariots of Fire and Blade Runner.

But, OKAY CAROLE, here’s a list of:

THE TOP 10 WAYS RAMONA’S PARTY HAD A MARATHON THEME:  

10. There was open-mouth chewing: Forgivable while running a marathon, unforgivable at the table.

9. Lu’s eyes screamed RUN AWAY! When she realized the subject of her past trash-talk, Dennis, was CALLING FROM INSIDE ACROSS THE TABLE.

8. Those party outfits were 50 shades of Run to the Far Side.

7. Who among us would not run 26 miles away from Dennis’s sweater?

6. Dorinda’s shit-stirring is a marathon in that it starts with shots fired, many fall along the way, and it plays out longer than an Emerson Lake & Palmer song.

5. Ramona’s cake was pure carbo-loading.

4. Bethenny burning Tinsley’s check crossed some kind of finish line, for me.

3. Speaking of Sonja, everybody knows a marathon is just jogging with a sexy j.

2. Everyone had to take their assigned places at the start.

1. The damn thing just went on and on and ON.

[SevenCostanza]

On 4/25/2018 at 9:35 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

Oh my God. Sonja,  is such trash. Don't repeat rumours, miss I plant stories in Page Six said this shit? She's awful. 

She needs to invest in a better makeup team then. She looks awful

Why does her face look so different in her talking heads?  The ones where she's wearing that red dress she looks so odd.  I was thinking maybe she had a nose job?  Her nose looks a little thicker in the endless dinner/brunch/lunch scenes, then it flashes to that talking head shot and you can kind of see it. 

[ryebread]

Someone mentioned Dorinda frothing over Dennis...I'd say she has a type.

[Jel]

8 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

Because I never took gym at Miss Porter’s, I have no idea how to accessorize a marathon-themed dinner party, unless it means creating fun and festive sneaker-scapes or setting up a welcoming gauntlet where your honoree is pelted with cocktails and Chex Party Mix.

That said, I say Kadooz to Ramona for nailing it, in the spirit category. What her party lacked in marathon paraphernalia – stopwatches? Sweaty socks? Life-size cardboard cut-outs of Dustin Hoffman? – it made up for in that most basic feature of any marathon: It would have been enhanced by a Vangelis score, preferably a mash-up of Chariots of Fire and Blade Runner.

But, OKAY CAROLE, here’s a list of:

THE TOP 10 WAYS RAMONA’S PARTY HAD A MARATHON THEME:  

10. There was open-mouth chewing: Forgivable while running a marathon, unforgivable at the table.

9. Lu’s eyes screamed RUN AWAY! When she realized the subject of her past trash-talk, Dennis, was CALLING FROM INSIDE ACROSS THE TABLE.

8. Those party outfits were 50 shades of Run to the Far Side.

7. Who among us would not run 26 miles away from Dennis’s sweater?

6. Dorinda’s shit-stirring is a marathon in that it starts with shots fired, many fall along the way, and it plays out longer than an Emerson Lake & Palmer song.

5. Ramona’s cake was pure carbo-loading.

4. Bethenny burning Tinsley’s check crossed some kind of finish line, for me.

3. Speaking of Sonja, everybody knows a marathon is just jogging with a sexy j.

2. Everyone had to take their assigned places at the start.

1. The damn thing just went on and on and ON.

So good!

[KungFuBunny]

6 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Speaking of interns, what exactly do they do?  It's been said they don't get paid, so what are they there for.  I'm sure they don't clean the house.  She doesn't have a business.   Is it just a status thing with her?  To make her feel like Lady Morgan again?

I think they are all wannabe mactors. They appear on the show as interns for free to be able to put it on their resumes and for the "exposure"

Did you notice the last one who didn't look at the weather report? She didn't even bother to give the illusion of holding up clothes to help Sonja pack. Did you see her ensemble? That didn't look like "office" attire or anything like what I'd wear to clean, dust, go grocery shopping. It gave me Britney Spears Hit Me One More Time vibes

[ShawnaLanne]

10 minutes ago, SevenCostanza said:

Why does her face look so different in her talking heads?  The ones where she's wearing that red dress she looks so odd.  I was thinking maybe she had a nose job?  Her nose looks a little thicker in the endless dinner/brunch/lunch scenes, then it flashes to that talking head shot and you can kind of see it. 

I've just begun experimenting with contouring and it can give my face different shapes. I think given her makeup from the red dress TH,  she either doesn't have a makeup artist on hand or is just doing it herself. Maybe that's the difference?

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Also at Luann's brunch - both Luann and Ramona went to Dorinda to comfort Dorinda. I didn't see either running to comfort Sonja or validate what Sonja said.

I didn't see it so much as them trying to comfort Doris as it was to calm her and make sure she wasn’t going to torch the place.

41 minutes ago, Jel said:

Nope, she's right in her face, accusing, mocking, taunting.  I can't ever reconcile hating someone for doing something and then doing the very same thing to the person you're hating on. If it's hateful behavior, it's hateful. Doesn't make it any better because someone else did it first.

Yep. I take it you didn't love the hateful and juvenile, "Liar, liar, ho on fire" brilliance that Doris spewed at the dinner table, either? :-) 

[KungFuBunny]

3 hours ago, dosodog said:

I'm in!

And I will treat you to a hot stone massage and ginger lime body scrub.  We can both be fancy!

The person i wanted to spend the rest of my life with, died unexpectantly. I have never been divorced so i cant speak to that. This is what I've learned from 10 pages.

Apples and oranges, completely different but with a commonality of fruit or in this case, loss.

Grieving the death of the person you lost, is not the same as grieving your divorced spouse.  That is not to imply that one is more painful than the other.  They can be equally painful, but for much different reasons.

We really shouldn't compare the two and we also shouldn't minimize the pain from either situation.

My heart goes out to the devestating divorces that have been shared here.  It's horrible to go through what you did.

But it's not death.  And until you experience it, you may not understand me or Dorinda or any one that was widowed.  Anymore than I may never understand the pain that comes from divorce. 

There have been several comments about it "being easier to move on if they had died".  From my own experience with Jim's death, I have to say no. It's not easier to move on.  It's a different set of circumstances and BOTH have different, but equally challenging on moving forward in life.  I say this in the spirit of hope.  There is hope for all of us, widowed and divorced to have a life with purpose and joy.  

I have also come to the truth that I (and you) will always carry this grief.  It is always there, lurking and little things will always trigger us.  Be it bringing up a memory, crying or missing a life you once had.

It's been 4 1/2 years since he died.  In order to be hired at a new job, I have to complete a CPR class.  No big deal right?  I had to perform CPR on Jim until the paramedics arrived.  Yeah.  The coroner made it clear to me that he would not have survived regardless. And yet?  Somehow I'm going to have to find the courage to perform CPR on a dummy, in front of a group of people and not fall apart at the seams with every memory of that night.  I will reexperience seeing him dying, reexperience the gurgling noises he made while he died, reexperience the utter helplessness of that night.  

Again, never been divorced, but I won't believe it is easier to move forward from a death.  I think I understand why a person reaches that conclusion, but I think dealing with death grief isn't any easier than divorce grief.  They both suck.  Royally. 

Pain is pain though.  We don't need to compare to have sympathy or empathy. I don't think divorce is death, but I do think they can totally rip your world right out from under you.

What's important is finding joy in life and putting one foot in front of the other, no matter how awful a day/moment/year/life is.

Awww...dosodog

Sending you some Pug Love to lick the tears away

[KungFuBunny]

3 hours ago, AnnMarie17 said:

After Dorinda's inability to stop laughing in her TH, this moment was my second favorite of the episode.  Beth brought him to the "party/work event" and then instructed him to stay near the chair???  Who invites a grown adult to accompany them somewhere and then instructs them where to stand...AND then walks away, leaving them there?  And, just as important, what kind of moron abides by that instruction???  If he's that dumb he deserves that bitchy B.  

Guilty raising hand!

When I go shopping which my mate absolutely HATES, as soon as we're in the door. He waits there AND holds my pocketbook. Do you know that's why they have built in seats towards the front entrance of The Gap - it's for all the male bag holders. Hopefully one day, they'll put a TV up there--Bwahahaha

[Reality police]

3 hours ago, dosodog said:

I'm in!

And I will treat you to a hot stone massage and ginger lime body scrub.  We can both be fancy!

The person i wanted to spend the rest of my life with, died unexpectantly. I have never been divorced so i cant speak to that. This is what I've learned from 10 pages.

Apples and oranges, completely different but with a commonality of fruit or in this case, loss.

Grieving the death of the person you lost, is not the same as grieving your divorced spouse.  That is not to imply that one is more painful than the other.  They can be equally painful, but for much different reasons.

We really shouldn't compare the two and we also shouldn't minimize the pain from either situation.

My heart goes out to the devestating divorces that have been shared here.  It's horrible to go through what you did.

But it's not death.  And until you experience it, you may not understand me or Dorinda or any one that was widowed.  Anymore than I may never understand the pain that comes from divorce. 

There have been several comments about it "being easier to move on if they had died".  From my own experience with Jim's death, I have to say no. It's not easier to move on.  It's a different set of circumstances and BOTH have different, but equally challenging on moving forward in life.  I say this in the spirit of hope.  There is hope for all of us, widowed and divorced to have a life with purpose and joy.  

I have also come to the truth that I (and you) will always carry this grief.  It is always there, lurking and little things will always trigger us.  Be it bringing up a memory, crying or missing a life you once had.

It's been 4 1/2 years since he died.  In order to be hired at a new job, I have to complete a CPR class.  No big deal right?  I had to perform CPR on Jim until the paramedics arrived.  Yeah.  The coroner made it clear to me that he would not have survived regardless. And yet?  Somehow I'm going to have to find the courage to perform CPR on a dummy, in front of a group of people and not fall apart at the seams with every memory of that night.  I will reexperience seeing him dying, reexperience the gurgling noises he made while he died, reexperience the utter helplessness of that night.  

Again, never been divorced, but I won't believe it is easier to move forward from a death.  I think I understand why a person reaches that conclusion, but I think dealing with death grief isn't any easier than divorce grief.  They both suck.  Royally. 

Pain is pain though.  We don't need to compare to have sympathy or empathy. I don't think divorce is death, but I do think they can totally rip your world right out from under you.

What's important is finding joy in life and putting one foot in front of the other, no matter how awful a day/moment/year/life is.

Amen to everything you said. Songs are my trigger. They are becoming my soothing place. 

[ryebread]

17 minutes ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I've just begun experimenting with contouring and it can give my face different shapes. I think given her makeup from the red dress TH,  she either doesn't have a makeup artist on hand or is just doing it herself. Maybe that's the difference?

This.  In that talking head, her contouring is wrong, foundation too heavy, the eyeshadow application makes her eyes look very close together and no one since the 80s has worn such heavily made up eyes and lips AND cheeks alllllll at the same time, except drag queens

(Nars Contour kits are A+ if you're looking for a great product.)

[Reality police]

3 hours ago, queenjen said:

Yes, I shall incorporate it as I've incorporated the infamous Kathryn to Landon finger in my interpersonal negotiations

Ask any of my friends, I've used this communication longer than she's been on this earth. It says it all and you can be sneaky or out in front. 

[WordsWordsWords]

Wow. Everyone has darn near said everything. :)

Yes, there's something seriously wrong with Sonja. She's always been nuts, but so far this season, she's been off the charts nuts. And extra-special-delusional.

Dorinda. I've always thought she was abrasive and an angry drunk. Now she seems to be abrasive and just flat-out angry.

I love Bethenny's investment house. No matter which highway it's sitting on.

And that's about all I've got. Everyone else said everything. :)

[KungFuBunny]

50 minutes ago, ryebread said:

I actually really liked Bethenny's top.

I didn't notice the front of Dennis's sweater until I re-watched the show. Is anyone here familiar with hook rugs? I swear I did one with that exact tiger pattern

[KungFuBunny]

16 minutes ago, ryebread said:

This.  In that talking head, her contouring is wrong, foundation too heavy, the eyeshadow application makes her eyes look very close together and no one since the 80s has worn such heavily made up eyes and lips AND cheeks alllllll at the same time, except drag queens

(Nars Contour kits are A+ if you're looking for a great product.)

I forget who maybe LIMOM or dosodog started over on BH - someone set the makeup gun to Clown.

For Sonja's TH shot with the red dress - she set her Makeup gun to Dead.

It looks like a very heavy hand was used with both foundation and powder. Definitely matte. So much was used - making her literally look dusty - as in blow in her direction and sand will start falling off.

It also made the appearance of her pores more obvious and her skin looked super dry.

[lcarolynl]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

Carole's blog is up (posting here b/c it's very directly about the episode / what we're discussing):

"Here’s a story: A 30-year-old restaurant hostess marries a wealthy man 25 years her senior. They love each other. Deeply. They have a kid. They buy a home, they travel the world, and host parties on yachts. Six years go by, then eight, then 10. The older man’s stories start to dull. The young pretty wife gets restless. Their eyes, once gazed longingly at each other, start to wander. Their marriage is marked by infidelities on both sides until one files for divorce. It’s not so shocking, is it? This story is played out countless times a year across the country. To talk about a marriage over a decade later, as though you had no hand in its demise, is frustrating for those who’ve had to listen to the historical re-write.

And it is definitely not the same as burying a husband—not even close. Signing a divorce document, after you’ve racked up lawyers' bills fighting over who gets the sconces, is not like signing a death certificate. It’s not like having to make life and death decisions when a doctor tells you there is little left to do but hope and pray. So you hope and pray for one more day—please one more day that is all I want. Then I’ll be ready. One more day—but, of course, that is the big lie. You will never be ready when your partner dies in the middle of his young life. You wait as the life and love slowly and painfully ebbs out of him until he is barely recognizable to you any longer. You wait until the man you thought you’d spend the rest of your life with struggles to take his very last breath. Then you wait and sit in the deafening silence that is death still praying, now begging, for one more day. The time between that last breath and the silence can last for eternity. Or at least six years, which is when Dorinda’s late husband Richard died, in the beginning of their life together."

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-10/blogs/carole-radziwill/carole-radziwill-death-and

This is beautifully written.
However, it is not for Dorinda, nor Carole, to dismiss Sonja's pain and expect their friends and viewers to listen to them wax on and on about their own losses. We've all lost someone or something that puts us back on our heels, unable to "get over it". A parent's suicide, a dear friend that is killed by a drunken driver the night she got her promotion/got engaged/found out she was pregnant/ etc. The alcoholic mother or the mother that develops mental illness and essentially abandons the family. Even the cat you had a child you never forgot or stopped grieving for. Loss is loss and pain is pain.
I would suggest that poor suffering  Dorinda and Carole had the luxury of saying goodbye to their beautiful husbands. They both have the support of anyone to whom they reach out, they're widows for goodness sakes! I'm glad they have the support of those around her but it's crass and selfish to place your own suffering above someone else's. Perhaps Sonja needs a friend to speak to her about moving on, but that should take place with love and concern not the fishwife screaming by Dorinda about her own pain, her Own.Very.Special.Pain.
I'm sorry for both of them but they act like the pain of losing a loving husband to disease is the PREMIER PAIN and we should all bow before their pain.

Nevermind that we all die; it's a natural as birth. As I like to say, Ain't nobody getting out of here alive!

I don't know how to measure pain, and frankly unlike Dorinda or Carole, I would never deign to do so, but we don't know the level of Sonja's pain. No one can know her pain. I will take her at her word and assume she's suffering and never mention the losses I've endured because I know that loss is a part of life and I'm not special. I guess that's what really bothers me, Dorinda and Carole aren't special in that they've lost husbands but they've put their widowhood on an altar and worship it and they want us all to worship it too. 
 

[halkatla]

My darlings have been on point for the last two episodes! I´m loving Bethenny; her bf; her th´s; her house, etc.

[QuinnM]

23 minutes ago, halkatla said:

 

My darlings have been on point for the last two episodes! I´m loving Bethenny; her bf; her th´s; her house, etc

 

Right now I have a major issue with Bethenny.  I don’t know when this was filmed but dammit she’s in the new apartment.  Insta shows bit and pieces so I know the friggin laundry room is bigger than most NYC apartments.  I know that the color palette is more taupe than grey.  I know that there is a HUGE living area with multiple seating areas.  Show us the damn apartment already.

Also anyone know where to get either of the sweaters that Bethenny and Carole were wearing at the Topping Rose brunch?

Edited April 28, 2018 by QuinnM

[BodhiGurl]

Since so many folks on this forum have already shared sentiments similar to mine regarding this episode - and given RHONY is on the heels of RHOBH ending, can I just say how much I flove that nobody on RHONY has a "glam" squad. Seriously refreshing. I also love that the RHONY women can go on a weekend trip to the Hamptons and not get overly dolled up. So refreshing. No wonder RHONY is my fave ;) 

[Persnickety1]

3 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

I kinda remember this and it was Sonja at her most pathetic and sad. I just remember her taking particular care to dress, wear her hair and makeup the way he liked, which by the looks of it seems he likes the patrician look. There seemed to be a "Story of Us" starring Sonja and JPM behind every article of clothing, jewelry and even the perfume she wore. All designed I imagine to invoke some type of nostalgia in him and soften his hardened heart. The impression I got was that if she could just get in a room with him and talk all would be alright i.e., he would be generous and throw a couple of sack of gold coins her way and make all her money troubles go away. Now I can't tell you if she was expecting full reconciliation, have him divorce his wife and re-marry her or she was willing to settle for being a mistress or she would just settle for $$$ but she was expecting something that would better her situation.  Welp, he didn't show - just his lawyers. Plan foiled!!

After the failed meetup, I don't believe Sonja bad mouthed him she was just angry that he would have nothing to do with her, see her or talk to her. I get the impression that he only deals with her to parent their daughter and is totally cold towards her. 

SATCHELS OF GOLD??? 

Paging Al Sharpton....

[Drumpf1737]

58 minutes ago, lcarolynl said:

wax on and on about their own losses.

But they don't. Other people bring up Carole's husband (because of the Kennedy connection). After spending two seasons on John and Dorinda's relationship I'll happily listen to her wax on about Richard.

C'mon Ramona did something else to her face! Didn't she? I'm not cray cray am I?

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, lcarolynl said:

This is beautifully written.
However, it is not for Dorinda, nor Carole, to dismiss Sonja's pain and expect their friends and viewers to listen to them wax on and on about their own losses. We've all lost someone or something that puts us back on our heels, unable to "get over it". A parent's suicide, a dear friend that is killed by a drunken driver the night she got her promotion/got engaged/found out she was pregnant/ etc. The alcoholic mother or the mother that develops mental illness and essentially abandons the family. Even the cat you had a child you never forgot or stopped grieving for. Loss is loss and pain is pain.
I would suggest that poor suffering  Dorinda and Carole had the luxury of saying goodbye to their beautiful husbands. They both have the support of anyone to whom they reach out, they're widows for goodness sakes! I'm glad they have the support of those around her but it's crass and selfish to place your own suffering above someone else's. Perhaps Sonja needs a friend to speak to her about moving on, but that should take place with love and concern not the fishwife screaming by Dorinda about her own pain, her Own.Very.Special.Pain.
I'm sorry for both of them but they act like the pain of losing a loving husband to disease is the PREMIER PAIN and we should all bow before their pain.

Nevermind that we all die; it's a natural as birth. As I like to say, Ain't nobody getting out of here alive!

I don't know how to measure pain, and frankly unlike Dorinda or Carole, I would never deign to do so, but we don't know the level of Sonja's pain. No one can know her pain. I will take her at her word and assume she's suffering and never mention the losses I've endured because I know that loss is a part of life and I'm not special. I guess that's what really bothers me, Dorinda and Carole aren't special in that they've lost husbands but they've put their widowhood on an altar and worship it and they want us all to worship it too. 
 

Neither Dorinda nor Carole talk about their late husbands as often as Sonja talks about her former lifestyle. When D/C do talk, it is about their husband's voice, thoughts, beliefs, struggles, laughs, dreams, the person/man. Sonja, on the other hand, talks about missing the lifestyle, the homes, the travel, the parties with famous people, the yachts....things. I do think Sonja is going through something but many of the others have tried to help her these last 5 years to no avail, she blows them off then feeds the tabloids/page six gossip/rumors and out right lies about them as pay back, so I get their anger/frustration with her. Could they have handled it better, Yes but then again, Sonja refuses to admit to what she has done, apologize for it and stop doing it either.  

[Persnickety1]

1 hour ago, lcarolynl said:

This is beautifully written.
However, it is not for Dorinda, nor Carole, to dismiss Sonja's pain and expect their friends and viewers to listen to them wax on and on about their own losses. We've all lost someone or something that puts us back on our heels, unable to "get over it". A parent's suicide, a dear friend that is killed by a drunken driver the night she got her promotion/got engaged/found out she was pregnant/ etc. The alcoholic mother or the mother that develops mental illness and essentially abandons the family. Even the cat you had a child you never forgot or stopped grieving for. Loss is loss and pain is pain.
I would suggest that poor suffering  Dorinda and Carole had the luxury of saying goodbye to their beautiful husbands. They both have the support of anyone to whom they reach out, they're widows for goodness sakes! I'm glad they have the support of those around her but it's crass and selfish to place your own suffering above someone else's. Perhaps Sonja needs a friend to speak to her about moving on, but that should take place with love and concern not the fishwife screaming by Dorinda about her own pain, her Own.Very.Special.Pain.
I'm sorry for both of them but they act like the pain of losing a loving husband to disease is the PREMIER PAIN and we should all bow before their pain.

Nevermind that we all die; it's a natural as birth. As I like to say, Ain't nobody getting out of here alive!

I don't know how to measure pain, and frankly unlike Dorinda or Carole, I would never deign to do so, but we don't know the level of Sonja's pain. No one can know her pain. I will take her at her word and assume she's suffering and never mention the losses I've endured because I know that loss is a part of life and I'm not special. I guess that's what really bothers me, Dorinda and Carole aren't special in that they've lost husbands but they've put their widowhood on an altar and worship it and they want us all to worship it too. 
 

I agree.  How does one distinguish which pain is, in fact, the most painful?

I have a unique perspective here.

I separated from Mr Persnickety about 2 years ago.  We still loved each other very much and were working on reconciling (translation = waiting for him to choose me over the bottle).

It was becoming clear that I would be the third wheel in his relationship with the bottle, so I was preparing to file divorce papers.  As heartbreaking as it was, it wasn't nearly as heartbreaking as watching him drink himself to an early death would be.

However, before I could file, Mr Persnickety managed to get himself killed last March in a spectacularly drunken and public way that was almost nonstop on local media for over a week.  

So, where would these RH women assign where my grief would fall, on the side of divorce being more painful (as I fully intended - albeit begrudgingly - to file for divorce)?   

Or would they deem my grief is best assigned to that of being widowed?

Fuck if I know.  This is my life and I still can't wrap my head around it or how I'm "supposed" to be feeling about it.

Life is so very, very unpredictable, and some things, such as grief, just can't be tied up with a bow,  labeled, and packed away.  Very few things in life are as simple as they seem.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Persnickety1

[Midnight Cheese]

Carole’s blog and dosodog’s post and so many other things have made this thread a good and poignant read.  So have so many PTV’rs arguing that pain is pain.   Yes.   I lost my dog very unexpectedly, recently, and feel hollowed out by it.   I’d never make comparisons.  Some people, wonderful people, made analogies to me about other kinds of loss that never even occurred to me; I guess I was too busy being sadder than I’d ever dreamed.  But I so appreciated every acknowledgment and little bit of kindness.

 I'm still me and a heel though, so I think the amazing poster upthread who brought in “ruinous empathy” as something to guard against with Sonja was dead-on.  I don’t believe, never will, and sadly (erm, maybe sadly, for the state of my immortal soul!) never believed that Sonja ever cared about much beyond trappings and status.  I’m not discussing her kiddo, and do assume the best there - that she does her best and adores her girl.  That being written: 

There is no reason to believe JAM left her holding the bag with that movie lawsuit, which ultimately bankrupted her - and every reason to believe she tried to manipulate “friends” to play the heavy after her lie about securing funding was discovered.  Sonja’s divorce was ***finalized*** in 2006 - yet she was executing agreements in early 2006 affirming a JAM or other actual Morgan financial commitment?   That’s impossible, sorry, not sorry.   I’m highlighting this one little thing to try and show that my mean self does have a heart, but that there’s something akin to actual objective evidence that Sawn is a con.  Or cawn.  And more importantly - much more importantly -  believing that SHE just wanted to be top of the heap and did a lot of shady crap is not to say at all that divorce isn’t devastating and horrendous and for many, utter agony in every way.   (But that’s not IMO applicable to Sonja.)

 

You can’t really get a clearer sense of how a world-class manipulator works without seeing the embedded article (the one Tamara cites) while also knowing she was saying things that could not have been true (additional business involvement with him) given an acrimonious and finalized divorce within months.   

 

Persnickety1, I’m so sorry.

http://tamaratattles.com/2015/06/28/here-is-the-tea-on-how-sonja-morgan-lost-7-million/

Edited April 28, 2018 by Midnight Cheese
Attempted clarification

[ShawnaLanne]

2 hours ago, ryebread said:

This.  In that talking head, her contouring is wrong, foundation too heavy, the eyeshadow application makes her eyes look very close together and no one since the 80s has worn such heavily made up eyes and lips AND cheeks alllllll at the same time, except drag queens

(Nars Contour kits are A+ if you're looking for a great product.)

I'm,  yes I am! Thank you for the tip. :)

[lezlers]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:24 PM, Thumper said:

I like Carole, but agree that comment was ungracious.  Disappointed in her.

She's now saying on social media that she "adores" Ramona and of course, was just teasing!  We don't see everything, you know.

Sure, Jan.

[lezlers]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:06 AM, RHJunkie said:

Carole did insinuate that she wanted someone to throw her a party and Ramona's 'hey I'm throwing you a party' followed right after. In fairness, I thought Ramona said she was hosting a dinner in Carole's honour, not an actual party which does in fact make it different...but Carole had already suspected that Ramona had already planned the party and made it about Carole after Carole brought up wanting a party so I'm not sure why she was so surprised. I don't think Ramona's comments implied a theme party at all, regardless of semantics. It could have just had a banner that said 'Congratulations' and do something a little special that separates the guest of honour like wearing a sash or a tiara, presenting a trophy or something fun like that. It's poor etiquette to have a party in someone's honour and there are guests who don't know the guest of honour at all. In fairness, I never called Carole ungrateful but I did mistake the way the event was presented to Carole. While I disagree about the place needing to be decked out to represent a theme, I do agree with the rest of it though. Ramona was too quick - she should have said nothing and then surprised Carole with a toast, some cake and fun trophy acknowledging her achievements. That way the night may not have been designed specifically for Carole but it would have a been an unexpected gesture that had no expectations and would have likely been received differently.

While I agree with everything you're saying, I don't think it justified Carole's ungracious comments on the show.  Who cares if Ramona didn't really go out of her way to celebrate Carol, she did more than anyone else did and she didn't HAVE to do anything at all.  I used to be a Carol fan, but my mouth was hanging open at how rude she was being about the party.  I'm over her.