S07.E09: Useful Idiot

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Carrie has problems at home; Saul and Wellington work on Paley.

Promo:

 

Clip:

[PeaceLily2]

I was doing so well up until tonight.....who is Clayton?

[DesertCyclist]

3 minutes ago, PeaceLily2 said:

I was doing so well up until tonight.....who is Clayton?

Was he the investment broker or whatever?

[PeaceLily2]

I can't remember his face.  Also, I think Dante is playing Carrie.

Edited April 9, 2018 by PeaceLily2

[scottiB]

32 minutes ago, PeaceLily2 said:

I was doing so well up until tonight.....who is Clayton?

Clayton is the spy he shot to get into the ER, I believe. 

[snarts]

What the hell kind of crackpot security did they have at the hospital?  Not only could Yevgeny get in, bit he could casually sit in the room for 10 min while Dante makes a phone call with his own phone?  WTF?

And then...the end. Carrie hallucinating?? Oh joy 

[The Bullpen]

I appreciated Carrie's mind going through all the men/assets/lovers/marks she's had over the years who have ended up dead.  It's a rather unfortunate pattern...

But I agree with you, snarts, on the security at the hospital.  Why wasn't someone standing immediately outside the room Dante was in?  Come on, Show.  Don't be like that.  Weaksauce.

[WaltersHair]

I freaking hate how hospitals are always the weak link in these stories.  For one, Dante would never be in an ER for that long. They get someone like that out of there asap. Also, that guy would need more that one door to beep through and ..... on and on.

And Carrie goes off the deep end, sabotaging all the good will or work she's done all season.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

I don’t appreciate how the show keeps getting my hopes up that we’ll be rid of Franny, and then dragging her back in. LET. HER. GO. This is a spy show, not a CW family drama. Keep it 18 and up. 

[preeya]

When Dante made the call to Carrie from the hospital, there is no way his name would appear on the caller ID of Carrie's phone. (Rookie mistake, show)

That said, did Yevgeny(sp) have enough time to kill Dante?

Carrie needs to be institutionalized, and custody should be granted to the sister.

Edited April 9, 2018 by preeya

[SuprSuprElevated]

I love how the ER nurse says to Yevgeny, "let's get you cleaned up".  Obviously, that was a necessary plot element to facilitate him getting into scrubs, but where in the free world does that happen?  Totally unrealistic.  Those ER workers would have ushered him to the waiting room, where he would sit in bloody clothes for however many hours he chose to sit there.

I realize Carrie totally psyched out Frannie's Principal or whatever he was, but having already spoken to her b-i-l, wouldn't he have called the police to sort it out before allowing Carrie to leave with her?  So many conveniences with the writing on this show.  I'm in agreement with those who see the Frannie thing as nothing more than an annoyance at this point.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

The Russians were working Dante instead of the other way around. Interesting. So much for his possibly being a good guy. He seems to have been mostly a bitter dupe.

So was Dante getting involved with Carrie part of Russian plan or was that just a sideline of his? Surely he wasn't going to try to turn her.

Ugh, Carrie is the worst. AFAIC she should not only lose custody of Frannie she should be forbidden from ever seeing her again. She is the biggest danger to both Frannie's mental and physical health.

Dante, we hardly knew ye. Poor guy realized that between Carrie and Yevgeny he had no way out but at least he tried to do the right thing before Yevgeny killed him.

[HollyG]

Carrie needs to relinquish custody of Frannie and check into the hospital. Hopefully she will find a drug that works for her. When she is mentally stable again, maybe she can see Frannie part time. But I think Carrie's sister & her family should be the primary care givers.  She also needs to stop working for the CIA, Saul, POTUS and anything that has to do with working undercover/spy type of work. All of that work seems to trigger these psychotic episodes in her. It's way too stressful for someone with a fragile psyche to cope with.

The assassin in the car said that Dante was surrounded by feds.  For there not to be a single one in the hall or guarding the door when Yevgeny walked right in was ridiculous.       

But otherwise, I really liked the episode. Very tense putting all the pieces together. Best part was telling the senator he'd been used and the Russians were calling him a "useful idiot". 

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 minutes ago, HollyG said:

She also needs to stop working for the CIA, Saul, POTUS

She should totally become a Starbucks barista and write lewd comments in folks' lattes.

[HollyG]

6 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

The Russians were working Dante instead of the other way around. Interesting. So much for his possibly being a good guy. He seems to have been mostly a bitter dupe.

So was Dante getting involved with Carrie part of Russian plan or was that just a sideline of his? Surely he wasn't going to try to turn her.

 

Yep and yep! I don't think Dante was trying to turn Carrie, but I think the Russians probably approved of him getting close to her. He was able to keep them informed of how close she was getting with her investigation of Simone.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I don’t appreciate how the show keeps getting my hopes up that we’ll be rid of Franny, and then dragging her back in. LET. HER. GO. This is a spy show, not a CW family drama. Keep it 18 and up. 

I guess the show will always feature Danes, at least as much as the espionage plots.

Its not enough dealing with plots involving bad actors.  Carrie has to work through her emotional baggage at the same time, probably to give Danes a chance to showcase her acting ability -- so instead of focusing on international bad actors, they want to throw in bad acting.

James Bond is not only suave, he doesn't bring his personal problems to his work or his work to his home life.  So the show is saying in essence female spies have it much tougher than male spies?  Or that they can't be as good spies as men because they're emotionally unstable?

 

Distressing thing is there are no consequences.  Even though she's no longer CIA, she gets to play spy, because the show would have us believe that she's a brilliant spy, despite all these emotional and psychiatric problems -- or maybe because of them.  If she's having difficulty with daily life -- keeping a roof over her head and her daughter -- how is she going to manage stopping Russian or terrorist plots?

[Tesla]

I love how the Russians labeled Carrie as a "Useful Idiot." They know her better than Saul does.

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I freaking hate how hospitals are always the weak link in these stories.  For one, Dante would never be in an ER for that long. They get someone like that out of there asap. Also, that guy would need more that one door to beep through and ..... on and on.

And Carrie goes off the deep end, sabotaging all the good will or work she's done all season.

He would have been in the ICU by then.  And it was beyond ridiculous the lack of security.  They just lost the woman so you think they would have two armed guards at the door plus guards at every exit and entrance.  That part sucked.  

[Bannon]

If writers don't care enough to avoid that manner of lazy-a$$ storytelling, why the hell should the audience care enough to watch? Carrie's domestic woes are just tiresome beyond description, and the hospital hit was too ridiculous for words.  

Edited April 9, 2018 by Bannon

[Lemons]

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I love how the ER nurse says to Yevgeny, "let's get you cleaned up".  Obviously, that was a necessary plot element to facilitate him getting into scrubs, but where in the free world does that happen?  Totally unrealistic.  Those ER workers would have ushered him to the waiting room, where he would sit in bloody clothes for however many hours he chose to sit there.

I realize Carrie totally psyched out Frannie's Principal or whatever he was, but having already spoken to her b-i-l, wouldn't he have called the police to sort it out before allowing Carrie to leave with her?  So many conveniences with the writing on this show.  I'm in agreement with those who see the Frannie thing as nothing more than an annoyance at this point.  

I agree with the ER but Carrie is the mother so the principal has no option but to let the child go with her mother.  The brother in law has no standing.  Of course now the principal is another witness in the contested guardianship case against Carrie. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Lemons

[anonymiss]

This episode was taken straight out of the most contrived gimmicks used on daytime soaps. Oleg deserves better. 

What a shame if Dante is dead but Franny, the most painfully contrived plot device, lives to be whirled out another day. 

[tpplay]

All I freaking care about is that Carrie is the WORST. MOTHER. ON. THE PLANET.

The WORST.

No way I could give a - whatever - about her at the last minute oh I've got to go grab my kid - shenanigans   She doesn't deserve to raise that kid and this episode ROARS its agreement.

Geez.  What more does she have to do to prove herself the worst freaking mother in the world?

Is there anyone out there who gives a fuck about whether she gets to keep her kid?

I think any judge in the world would remove that poor girl from her mother's custody

Jesus.

[LoveLeigh]

3 hours ago, HollyG said:

She also needs to stop working for the CIA, Saul, POTUS and anything that has to do with working undercover/spy type of work. All of that work seems to trigger these psychotic episodes in her. It's way too stressful for someone with a fragile psyche to cope with.

 

If she stops "working" for the CIA by going rogue, there is no series. The writers have to keep her involved and connected with these scenarios. 

1 hour ago, tpplay said:

I think any judge in the world would remove that poor girl from her mother's custody

 

I think the writers will conveniently have Carrie lose custody so that the series can go forward with her daughter out of the show. 

This series has really become so melodramatic. 

[dwmarch]

Well that was a fun episode of 24! We really just needed some split screens to make it complete.

Yevgeny tells Dante "you can trust me, I wouldn't poison you" about five minutes after shooting his homeboy in the parking lot for the crime of wanting to drive him to the airport.

I was surprised they actually used Twitter and said that the NSA can hack into it at will. While I am sure that's true (the Snowden leaks basically confirmed that the NSA knows what you've had for breakfast before you've had it and knows what color and consistency it's going to be when it comes out) I'm surprised Twitter would allow a show to suggest they could be hacked and manipulated so easily.

I'm curious to see if Carrie's fractured reality comes true. Did she actually smoke her daughter in the nugget with her Volvo and then just drive away? Would this show actually be so bold?

[HollyG]

42 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

If she stops "working" for the CIA by going rogue, there is no series. The writers have to keep her involved and connected with these scenarios. 

I think the writers will conveniently have Carrie lose custody so that the series can go forward with her daughter out of the show. 

This series has really become so melodramatic. 

Yes, of course you are right about this. The series is based on the CIA, spies, etc.  There is no series without it. And I know it's a bit ridiculous to try and solve a fictional characters problems, but after watching for 7 years I guess I've become invested in her well being.  The series has become so fraught in it's story telling, that I suppose I was looking for a little relief.  ?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I almost wanted to pat Carrie and Saul on the head when Carrie left the hospital and called Saul. They were so proud of themselves and happy so of course they should have known it wouldn't last. At the very least, Carrie should have known not to leave Dante no matter how many guards they had at the hospital.

4 hours ago, anonymiss said:

What a shame if Dante is dead but Franny, the most painfully contrived plot device, lives to be whirled out another day. 

ITA - Dante was more relevant to the plot in one season than Franny has been in three (or four?) seasons. I get that she's a kid so she's not going to be part of some international espionage case (which is a good thing) but that's exactly why having Carrie pregnant with Brody's baby was a huge mistake from the writers. I get that people with jobs like Carrie's still have families and normal day to day problems but I have no interest in watching a show like Homeland for fascinating tidbits like Carrie picking Franny up from school. I file those mundane things under the same category as "Carrie has to pee," "Carrie goes to Target to buy Franny's backpack," and other stuff that I logically know she must do but that I don't actually need to watch as part of the show.

The great thing about Dante as a character is that I never knew exactly where his loyalty was (even before we found out he was working with Simone).

1 hour ago, dwmarch said:

Yevgeny tells Dante "you can trust me, I wouldn't poison you" about five minutes after shooting his homeboy in the parking lot for the crime of wanting to drive him to the airport.

Well, to be fair, Yevgeny didn't poison Clayton or Dante so technically he wasn't lying!

[Ina123]

4 hours ago, Tesla said:

I love how the Russians labeled Carrie as a "Useful Idiot." They know her better than Saul does.

I thought her label was "CIA". Paley's was "UI".

I'm not positive about her label but I l know Paley's was "UI". Saul was almost gleeful in telling Paley it stood for "Useful Idiot".

[dwmarch]

1 minute ago, Ina123 said:

I thought her label was "CIA". Paley's was "UI".

Carrie was a UI as well and I know that because I LOLed. Finally this show tells it as it is.

[Tesla]

2 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I thought her label was "CIA". Paley's was "UI".

They were both UI.  I know because I saw it, laughed, paused it to read them all, and laughed again.  Best part of the episode for me.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Tesla

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I thought her label was "CIA". Paley's was "UI".

I'm not positive about her label but I l know Paley's was "UI". Saul was almost gleeful in telling Paley it stood for "Useful Idiot".

You weren't seeing things! Carrie is labeled as "former CIA" and "UI."

[attica]

My favorite bit was Mirov addressing Yevgeny (on the phone) as 'Yevgeny Olegovitch'. Very appreciated bit of meta.

[Bannon]

At this point, I think it can be definitively stated that this show would have been better if A) Carrie and Brody had never become lovers, and B) if, after recovering from the fiasco of storytelling that culminated in the bombing at the CIA, they had kept Carrie out of the United States completely, avoiding any characters like a U.S. President, which hardly any show pulls off credibly. Yes, it was oh-so-tempting to have a Russian election manipulation story arc which mirrored today's headlines, but this show has always been better after season one when Carrie was posted overseas.

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

At this point, I think it can be definitively stated that this show would have been better if A) Carrie and Brody had never become lovers, and B) if, after recovering from the fiasco of storytelling that culminated in the bombing at the CIA, they had kept Carrie out of the United States completely, avoiding any characters like a U.S. President, which hardly any show pulls off credibly. Yes, it was oh-so-tempting to have a Russian election manipulation story arc which mirrored today's headlines, but this show has always been better after season one when Carrie was posted overseas.

Or, like most successful shows in this modern era, 5-6 seasons and out.

[Shades of Scarlet]

UO perhaps, but although I missed a few shows in the middle seasons before picking things back up regularly in the Berlin season, I was never a Brody fan and therefore thought this was one of the better episodes of Homeland ever (particularly since it was without Quinn).  Sure, the hospital security could have been far better; one of those federal guys obviously should have noticed when Dante's blinds were shut.  However, the overall plot was chilling (because it's really not too far from reality) and the suspense was outstanding.  I gasped when it looked like Carrie might hit Franny with the car, because we've seen the show almost go there (or similar environs) once already.  Meanwhile, the direction was taut and the acting was outstanding.  Oleg Yevgeny Olegovich (lol, attica, I loved that too) was, no surprise, a tour de force.  

The fact that the Russians were trying to stop NotOleg to avoid an international incident and even threatened to burn him themselves was fascinating.  

For once I thought the Franny drama actually made some degree of sense, too.  Yeah, it was a mistake to give Carrie a kid, but here we are.

Finally, from the shallow end I have found Claire increasingly haggard in recent seasons even when she's dolled up and being seductive.  But in all of this episode, ironically enough given what was going on with Carrie, I thought she looked really pretty, the best she has in years on this show.     

Great episode. 

[Bannon]

28 minutes ago, Shades of Scarlet said:

UO perhaps, but although I missed a few shows in the middle seasons before picking things back up regularly in the Berlin season, I was never a Brody fan and therefore thought this was one of the better episodes of Homeland ever (particularly since it was without Quinn).  Sure, the hospital security could have been far better; one of those federal guys obviously should have noticed when Dante's blinds were shut.  However, the overall plot was chilling (because it's really not too far from reality) and the suspense was outstanding.  I gasped when it looked like Carrie might hit Franny with the car, because we've seen the show almost go there (or similar environs) once already.  Meanwhile, the direction was taut and the acting was outstanding.  Oleg Yevgeny Olegovich (lol, attica, I loved that too) was, no surprise, a tour de force.  

The fact that the Russians were trying to stop NotOleg to avoid an international incident and even threatened to burn him themselves was fascinating.  

For once I thought the Franny drama actually made some degree of sense, too.  Yeah, it was a mistake to give Carrie a kid, but here we are.

Finally, from the shallow end I have found Claire increasingly haggard in recent seasons even when she's dolled up and being seductive.  But in all of this episode, ironically enough given what was going on with Carrie, I thought she looked really pretty, the best she has in years on this show.     

Great episode. 

I'll never tell anyone that they shouldn't like what they like, but suspense just doesn't work for me when it makes no sense. The episode telegraphed from the beginning that it was going to be ridiculously easy for Yevgeny to asassinate Dante, and that is exactly how it played out. I just don't care about Carrie's child custody issues, so it just irritates me when it intrudes into the espionage storytelling.

Different strokes, and all that, I guess.

[jrlr]

I thought it was Wellington who was the Useful Idiot, although there is certainly more than one character UI could apply to.

The hospital sequence was idiotic. 

Carrie's hallucination - I guess it was supposed to shock us, but I immediately started laughing that this (purposeful?) spin on the evil twin cliche.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

25 minutes ago, jrlr said:

I thought it was Wellington who was the Useful Idiot, although there is certainly more than one character UI could apply to.

 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Technically Wellington and McClendon were targets while Carrie and Paley were the useful idiots, but there were a lot of UIs involved in this (technical or otherwise).

[Harry24]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I file those mundane things under the same category as "Carrie has to pee," "Carrie goes to Target to buy Franny's backpack," and other stuff that I logically know she must do but that I don't actually need to watch as part of the show.

The one mundane thing I MUST see before the series ends, however, is "Carrie bleaches her hair."

[snarts]

Unlike some of the latter seasons of 24, I find the overarching storyline extremely interesting.  I can even tolerate the inclusion of Carrie's family life and issues with her being bi-polar.  However, the blatant plot holes and lazy writing are what I find baffling. The US Marshalls just lost one Russian agent and yet there's no one guarding Dante in the hospital?  One single tweet can take down Yvevgeny's entire network in the US?  Saul's old Russian buddy, does he even know he's missing (dead)? Why did they spend all that time on O'Keefe?

[roughing it]

1 hour ago, Harry24 said:

The one mundane thing I MUST see before the series ends, however, is "Carrie bleaches her hair."

Bleaching her hair costs money, a backpack for Franny costs money.  Carrie can't even get a cheap hotel room for one night - how does she even have money to put gas in her car?

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Bleaching her hair costs money, a backpack for Franny costs money.  Carrie can't even get a cheap hotel room for one night - how does she even have money to put gas in her car?

It's situational financial neediness, for purposes of plot development. We need Carrie' to get from one place to another, so the credit works at the gas station. We need Carrie and Frannie to be at Dante's apartment, so it stops working at the motel.

Really dumb writing.

[One Imaginary Girl]

Every season of Homeland is about a mole, and I still don't think Dante is the one this time.  I wondered if it was Paley, but I think in the remaining episodes there's going to be a twist and it'll be someone bigger--possibly the VP.

Edited April 9, 2018 by One Imaginary Girl

[roughing it]

1 hour ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

it'll be someone bigger--possibly the VP

ITA.  They've shown him on the fringes, and he's freaking Beau Bridges.  He has to be involved to get the "Target" Keane impeached so he can become President.  (Maybe he will be the "Trump" character that the Russians want in the Oval Office.)

[slowpoked]

That last scene was terrifying, because the writers did a great job in making Carrie's hallucinations feel like some parts of it were real. Like yes, at first she didn't hit her kid. But did she really not? Did she really walk away from her kid after almost hitting her? Or did she really hit her and she's lying in a pool of blood? What was real and what is not? 

Minor quibble: I still think Homeland should have killed Quinn when he was in the coma, rather than how it was done last season. It hurt to see such a badass character get reduced to what he was last season.

Aside from the hospital security issue, this episode was good. The plot was moving pretty fast and I didn't even mind the Keane-Wellington scenes. Those are the ones I usually dread in an episode. I'm surprised Yevgeny was pretty open with his network. I would think that a Russian operative like him would have people in between him and his minions. Like that banker from Connecticut or something, who could easily call him just like that. I was surprised Dante was connected directly to him, I thought his only connection was Simone and Simon basically ran the US operation with him in the sidelines watching. 

[Ina123]

I think we are getting what we want. Maggie gets custody and Carrie gets to run around as a crazy but sucessful asset. All we'll see is fake phone calls and a mention here and there.

On top of everything else that's been mentioned, "not Oleg" would never have just sat down for a casual conversation with Dante. This should have been an in and out job. (Well except for the fact that he shouldn't have gotten in at all.)

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

Technically Wellington and McClendon were targets while Carrie and Paley were the useful idiots, but there were a lot of UIs involved in this (technical or otherwise).

Thank you. I must have just noticed "CIA". I should have paused to read it.

[Son of Saul]

20 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I don’t appreciate how the show keeps getting my hopes up that we’ll be rid of Franny, and then dragging her back in. LET. HER. GO. This is a spy show, not a CW family drama. Keep it 18 and up. 

I thought she was going to run Franny over. That would have been the most distressing thing in TV history. Sorry to say but at least we would have been rid of her. Or maybe not. They could have started a spin off series about her recovery and rehabilitation...

17 hours ago, tpplay said:

All I freaking care about is that Carrie is the WORST. MOTHER. ON. THE PLANET.

The WORST.

No way I could give a - whatever - about her at the last minute oh I've got to go grab my kid - shenanigans   She doesn't deserve to raise that kid and this episode ROARS its agreement.

Geez.  What more does she have to do to prove herself the worst freaking mother in the world?

Is there anyone out there who gives a fuck about whether she gets to keep her kid?

I think any judge in the world would remove that poor girl from her mother's custody

Jesus.

Luckily I can't comment because I hit fast forward as soon as any of that family bullshit appears on the horizon. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Son of Saul

[TVbitch]

Did they get everybody in the "to all the boy's I've killed before" montage, cuz it seems like she had a hand in more deaths than that. 

Hard to believe Dante looking so devastated when Oleg told him Carrie played him. I mean, yeah, she hit him with her special sex magic but it got interrupted, so I didn't think he was absurdly devoted to her yet. I guess so if he was willing to tell her Oleg was there which would mean his immediate death. 

I like Saul's tech team, can we keep them.   

[Cranberry]

I don't think Dante was protecting Carrie so much as he was protecting her kid. Carrie said, "I just picked up Franny. We'll come to the hospital." Who knows what would have happened to Franny in a Carrie/Yevgeny confrontation?

I agree that the show's biggest misstep was giving Carrie a kid. There's no place for them in this type of show. You know it's bad when most of us are rooting for our main character to lose custody.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

41 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I don't think Dante was protecting Carrie so much as he was protecting her kid. Carrie said, "I just picked up Franny. We'll come to the hospital." Who knows what would have happened to Franny in a Carrie/Yevgeny confrontation?

I agree. Say what you will about Dante, but he did not seem like he was cold-hearted enough to want something bad to happen to Franny (unlike Yevgeny who probably would have killed her without hesitation). No matter how betrayed Dante felt by Carrie, I don't think that he was faking being nice with Franny or that he would want an innocent child to be put in a situation where she could be hurt/killed/taken hostage by Yevgeny or watch her mother be killed in front of her.

But I think the selfish part of him also knew that telling Carrie about Yevgeny being at the hospital meant that Yevgeny would kill him as quickly as possible and then GTFO which was probably the best case scenario for Dante. No long torturous death, no testifying, no witness protection, no losing his job. It would just all be over for him in a few minutes and he wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of what he'd done.

[WaltersHair]

Here's the thing about Frannie. The writers have X-files syndrome. I'm an old, old X-files fan and for many, the birth of the kid ruined the show. You can't be chasing aliens in Kansas with a baby in tow. Since the end of the old series he's been a point of contention because of his conspicuous absence in the 2008 movie and first return of the series back in 2015. The current season finally addressed the kid issue and basically ruined it for all time (MHO of course).

All that to say I hope the writers for Homeland don't go the same route. Frannie would be okay if Carrie wasn't completely single AND had significant mental issues. It's  in her nature to return to the CIA again and again, but she needs a Mr. Mom or someone who is a constant in her life who is not her sister or seen as temporary.

This is all from a viewer's perspective only. I honestly don't know if there are single CIA undercover operatives who have her issues and have normal lives, or if it's even possible. I just don't think Carrie the character would be happy doing anything else and will always find trouble.