S02.E04: The Salem Witch Hunt

[CooperTV]

Quote

While Wyatt sneaks away from the bunker to face an unbelievable truth, Lucy, Rufus and their former enemy-turned- teammate, Garcia Flynn, chase the Mothership to the Salem Witch Trials. There they must prevent the execution of a headstrong young woman who, it turns out, is mother to one of the most consequential Americans of all time – the yet to be born Benjamin Franklin. When Lucy is accused of being a witch, the team rallies together not only to save Abiah and Lucy, but all the accused women.

Promos

I guess I'm gonna skip this one.

[legaleagle53]

Oh, I don't know -- it's probably going to be hard to watch, but worth it to see Flynn teaming up with Lucy and Rufus for a change!

[CooperTV]

22 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, I don't know -- it's probably going to be hard to watch, but worth it to see Flynn teaming up with Lucy and Rufus for a change!

There are characters that I like to hate, like Emma and her Magnificent Bastard persona. Flynn? I just hate his face.

[Female83]

Too bad we have to wait until the 8th to see the next ep.

[shapeshifter]

Somebody should interview Malcom Barrett and write a commentary on the social, cultural, and historical implications of him wearing that hat. But likely any serious post-episode writing will focus on women's issues from Salem to now—which should be done too in light of the past year's revelations.

[smiley13]

On 3/31/2018 at 10:57 AM, shapeshifter said:

Somebody should interview Malcom Barrett and write a commentary on the social, cultural, and historical implications of him wearing that hat. But likely any serious post-episode writing will focus on women's issues from Salem to now—which should be done too in light of the past year's revelations.

What implications??

[Stuffy]

17 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

What implications??

Yeah I don't know the history of the hat either.  I'm going to guess it's terrible. The only thing I could think of is a hat the slaves used while being overworked and beaten in the fields.  

Edited April 2, 2018 by Stuffy

[Glambert123]

     Wow - just got to watch the show a little earlier at 7:00 pm. Throwing Flynn into the lifeboat added a whole other dynamic. I love him as more of a grey character than a straight up villain. Am definitely afraid for Lucy now - Emma sure has it in for her. Am wondering if Lucy's mom somehow dies - trying to protect her.

    Dare I say they may be turning the triangle into a rectangle. I can see Flynn and Lucy reluctantly growing closer - as Lucy watches Wyatt and Jess growing closer. But with only 6 episodes left - who knows what they'll have time for. I don't know how these writers can write ANYTHING cohesively when they don't know if they'll be renewed for Season 3. How do they know WHEN or IF to end a storyline? How far to take it?

[SiobhanJW]

I enjoyed this episode. Also, there is no way that Jessica isn't a Rittenhouse plant, I would be completely shocked if that wasn't the case. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by SiobhanJW

[Glambert123]

I think you're right - and by the time Wyatt realizes it - he'll try to get Lucy back - but it might be too late. Have a feeling they'll try to push her and Flynn together. Or maybe Lucy just won't want to be the consolation prize after Jessica.

[Manda317]

I loved this episode!!!!!! It was my favorite so far. I watched it live, so I couldn't fast-forward Jessica and Wyatt and I had to watch commercials, and it was still worth it. I have always been fascinated by the Salem Witch Trials, so I have been waiting for this episode a long time.

Wyatt bringing Jessica to the bunker to live was cruel. I like Wucy, I don't love them, but that was a horrible move. He also looks really wishy-washy right now. I understand being thrilled that your wife was not brutally murdered, and even wanting her to understand what has been going on, but his claims of love right after he said what he said to Lucy just looks like he can't make up his mind. Especially since she wasn't expecting anything from him, if he wanted her to know everything he should tell her EVERYTHING, including Lucy. Then they can decide what they want to do about their marriage. However, he violated a ton of rules today and really has no business being a soldier. He is not suited for it. At all. I don't know how he ever attained his rank lol.

I feel like I am all alone in this forum in that I adore Flynn. I loved his time with Lucy this week. Even though the writers seem committed to Lyatt, I hope they keep the relationship developing between them. It was really sweet how he tried to comfort her and how he helped her out of the lifeboat. They should be close even if it never turns romantic. It has also been foretold that they would work together. I also want his wife and daughter to survive (it's horrible that a little girl was murdered), so that is a possibility ending for him if Lyatt stays endgame. A tragic ending would also be good for him, even if it would break my heart lol.

[redpencil]

I think regardless of any Rittenhouse stuff, Wyatt will eventually figure out that Jessica isn't for him any longer (if she ever was), and Lucy is. His wife was murdered and he clearly glamorized their relationship, somewhat understandably due to guilt and the way she died (their relationship cannot have been perfect given the circumstances the night she was killed). So now that she's back, part of his journey will be figuring that out. And I think Lucy will understand all of that, as long as it's clear that he's choosing her and not just giving up on Jessica and settling for her.

[nilyank]

15 minutes ago, redpencil said:

I think regardless of any Rittenhouse stuff, Wyatt will eventually figure out that Jessica isn't for him any longer (if she ever was), and Lucy is

It sounds like she wasn't. She is right that he built up what their marriage was and who she was. Because she was murdered and he felt guilty about it, Wyatt is not looking back at how his marriage was truly like. In the original timeline, they had a huge fight which wasn't their first.

But if Rittenhouse saved her, it was only to recruit her. They had no idea about the growing feelings between Lucy and Wyatt.

[phalange]

Keynes just gets worse every episode, doesn't he? Just casually suggesting Carol take Lucy out. Carol accusing Lucy of being a witch was just ice cold, wow. I clapped when Lucy said she'd rather be hanged for witchcraft than work with Rittenhouse. Lucy's scene in the jail with all the other accused women was really well done and sadly still relevant; sentiments regarding women who refuse to conform really haven't changed all that much. 

I feel bad for Jiya and Rufus. In telling him about her visions she's just trying to help, and even when he took them into account, something bad still happened. 

Lucy and Wyatt's phone call was so sad. "I'm thrilled for you," as she tries not to cry. And Wyatt was really idealizing his marriage to Jessica, since she just handed him divorce papers. It was pretty stupid bringing her to the bunker, not only because of how this will be hard for Lucy, but also because I still think Jessica's part of Rittenhouse and now she knows where they are. 

Flynn continues to annoy me, and I'm just going to go ahead and pretend I didn't see him do up Lucy's seatbelt. 

Rufus always has the best lines, but tonight was particularly excellent:

"No, no! Don't run toward a demonic entity!"

"I'm gonna pass on the Puritan chainsaw massacre."

"Black and white necks snap just the same." 

[methodwriter85]

I thought this was a strong ep. The eldest daughter from Medium was awesome as Abiah.

[LittleIggy]

I couldn’t tell - did Judge Hathorne get shot and killed? If so, no “The Scarlet Letter” on HS American lit reading lists.?

[bros402]

I really liked that episode.

 

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I couldn’t tell - did Judge Hathorne get shot and killed? If so, no “The Scarlet Letter” on HS American lit reading lists.?

I don't think he did.

[Shorty186]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

I couldn’t tell - did Judge Hathorne get shot and killed? If so, no “The Scarlet Letter” on HS American lit reading lists.?

Yup, Flynn killed him. And I think the bullet went through him and hit Lucy? I thought Wyatt would have been worried about Lucy being hurt and maybe Jessica would have noticed something in their interaction, but I guess not.

Am I the only one who got the vibe that Keynes and Emma are hooking up and trying to continue the family line that way? He's already written off Lucy and Carol has probably worn out her usefulness.

[Manda317]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I couldn’t tell - did Judge Hathorne get shot and killed? If so, no “The Scarlet Letter” on HS American lit reading lists.?

The Timeless Twitter page had a historical fact about that. The author of The Scarlet Letter was Nathaniel Hawthorne. When I heard the last name, that book came to my mind too. Judge Hathorne was a paternal relative of his, and he actually changed the spelling of his last name due to shame about who he was related to. I thought that was really interesting. They actually published a few different facts. Everyone should check it out.

[possibilities]

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I thought this was a strong ep. The eldest daughter from Medium was awesome as Abiah.

Thank you for figuring out who it was! I knew I recognized the actress but I couldn't figure out where from!

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, phalange said:

I feel bad for Jiya and Rufus. In telling him about her visions she's just trying to help, and even when he took them into account, something bad still happened.

This is the first episode where Rufus annoyed me. First by dismissing Jiya's vision with that stupid joke, and then, essentially blaming her for the way things went down.

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I couldn’t tell - did Judge Hathorne get shot and killed? If so, no “The Scarlet Letter” on HS American lit reading lists.?

 

6 hours ago, Shorty186 said:

Yup, Flynn killed him. And I think the bullet went through him and hit Lucy? I thought Wyatt would have been worried about Lucy being hurt and maybe Jessica would have noticed something in their interaction, but I guess not.

I could be mixing up the characters, but I believe Hathorne was the guy Rufus nearly shot and who was subsequently run over by the horse and carriage. He had a daughter, and may well have had a son, so The Scarlett Letter would still be on those lists.

[Shorty186]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I could be mixing up the characters, but I believe Hathorne was the guy Rufus nearly shot and who was subsequently run over by the horse and carriage.

No, that was Judge Sewall. Hathorne was the guy with long black hair that was reading out the sentences.

[iMonrey]

Quote

This is the first episode where Rufus annoyed me. First by dismissing Jiya's vision with that stupid joke, and then, essentially blaming her for the way things went down.

Yeah, I didn't get that either. Like it's her fault she's getting visions? And she should just shut up about them?

I really, really want to like this show (and I do enjoy the characters) but the premise is so hopelessly flawed I can never quite invest myself in the story. So this week Rittenhouse wanted to kill Benjamin Franklin's mother, because then he'd never be born and . . . the concept of Freedom of the Press and perhaps Freedom of Speech would never be invented? By anyone? Like, no other person in the world would have ever though of those concepts if Ben Franklin were never born. OK then. I suppose we'd never have electricity, libraries or fire engines either.

There are some really intriguing ideas buried in this formulaic pablum they keep dishing out but the show just doesn't have the ambition to explore them. Think how much more interesting it would have been if Rittenhouse had succeeded, and the Time Team returned to a present where there was never a Ben Franklin. What would the ramifications be? That's where your story is, not this incessant tail chasing after Rittenhouse who, a season and half in, haven't really accomplished anything to speak of.

[Writing Wrongs]

Why don't they have Rufus try and destroy the mother ship so that Rittenhouse can't do any more jumps? He didn't need to be at the witch trial stuff.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Writing Wrongs

[Lieutenant]

15 hours ago, Manda317 said:

I feel like I am all alone in this forum in that I adore Flynn. I loved his time with Lucy this week. Even though the writers seem committed to Lyatt, I hope they keep the relationship developing between them. It was really sweet how he tried to comfort her and how he helped her out of the lifeboat. They should be close even if it never turns romantic. It has also been foretold that they would work together. I also want his wife and daughter to survive (it's horrible that a little girl was murdered), so that is a possibility ending for him if Lyatt stays endgame. A tragic ending would also be good for him, even if it would break my heart lol.

You're not the only one, lol.  Flynn is pretty much my main favorite and I love everything about his story and his connection to Lucy.  The writers teed up a storyline with amazing potential in the journal and their mysterious relationship (whatever it may be) and I'll be very unhappy if they drop it.  Here's the thing about Garcy that I love - everything they do advances plot somehow, and in a 10 ep season this is vital.  This is not the case with Lyatt.  Was I the only one in ep 3 going "seriously?  We're gonna have another am quickie?  ARE WE NOT ON A MISSION?!?"  I feel like their scenes take me out of the flow of the episode and plot, often in a jarring way. 

Which leads me to Wyatt.  How is it he gets to be this lauded "reckless hothead" and never face any serious consequences?  Bringing your wife down to the bunker?!  That's levels of stupid and insubordinate I can't even comprehend.  But then again, Agent Christopher seems to tolerate his disrespect and flouting of the rules like it's nbd.  I feel like "so court marshal me" is his new catch phrase to say after he does whatever the hell he wants.  And now, in this new timeline where Jess is alive, it means Wyatt never hijacked the lifeboat and took an illegal trip to the 80's where he inadvertently whacked an innocent guy.   How convenient for him to have that wiped from his record.

I really like Jessica and I can only hope they do right by her in this stupid triangle.  

Poor Rufus.  He continues to be the heart of this show, and his emotional plea to that Puritan judge really hit me.  "Get away from me, man!"  Ugh, break my heart.  Poor Jiya, too.  Those two are gonna have to work through this premonition issue somehow.  They've always been a sweet, easy to root for couple, so I hope they can come out of this stronger. 

Overall this episode was hella fun and probably one of my favorites.  Flynn brings a level of action and quick pacing into the mix that was sorely needed, imo.  I love to see Lucy going darker as well.  

Edited April 9, 2018 by Lieutenant
spelling error

[saber5055]

Everyone here was correct that Jessica was brought back by Rittenhouse to screw up the Time Travelers. Wyatt needs to get a clue that she's "just not that into you," dude. And bringing her to the bunker? To quote Bugs Bunny: "What a maroon."

I missed the beginning so wondered where Lucy et. al. stole all those Puritan clothes. It's not like people had wardrobes full of extra clothes in those days, they had one/two dresses/outfits, one to wear while they washed the other. But ... *handwave* I guess.

I'm a little squeed by any Flynn/Lucy romantic connection since there were overtones last season that he "possibly" could be her dad or granddad or son or something. I like him as a character, but no hookups with Lucy please. And thank you.

Whatever happened to Lucy's journal that was the big item last season?

Edited April 9, 2018 by saber5055

[Lieutenant]

@saber5055 - Flynn is from the current original timeline, same as all of our Time Team crew.  He was born in 1975 in Croatia and has had a pretty well documented career as an Eastern European NSA asset.  He was visited by a future Lucy who gave him the journal for reasons unknown, which set him on a mission to steal the Mothership and start guerrilla warfare against Rittenhouse.  They are not related.  His mother is Maria Thompkins and his father is Asher Flynn.  Lucy's genealogy is pretty well documented too.  Rittenhouse up one end and down the other. 

[shafted]

3 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Whatever happened to Lucy's journal that was the big item last season?

I'm curious about that as well. Flynn didn't seem to go anywhere without it last season. If it was in Flynn's possession when he was arrested, why doesn't Denise or DHS have it in their possession? Or, if it wasn't on Flynn when he was arrested, why didn't Flynn use it to bargain his way out of prison? If Rittenhouse is as big and bad as the writers seem to want them to be, then wouldn't what is essentially a guidebook from the future on how to destroy Rittenhouse be priority 1 for Denise and Co. to get into their possession?

[Shanna Marie]

Jessica may or may not end up being Rittenhouse, but I was impressed that, at least for this episode, they didn't have her turn out to be the bitch. She had valid problems with Wyatt, and he came across as having been a bit of a jerk -- at least, other timeline Wyatt did. I love Wyatt, but I came away being kind of Team Jess in their disputes. But she won big points in being willing to listen to him and being kind of cool about it all. There may be a freakout to come, but she wasn't the harpy that a character like her would usually be portrayed as. I was also impressed by the way Wyatt and Lucy were adults with each other. Lucy didn't pout or go into a snit, and Wyatt wasn't trying to hide things from her. He was honest with her and she was supportive of him. So, they may have gone full soap opera with how this started, but they seem to be avoiding the worst tropes for the moment.

I rather love the idea of the Salem Witch Revolts.

[MarkusXIII]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, I didn't get that either. Like it's her fault she's getting visions? And she should just shut up about them?

.........................................

There are some really intriguing ideas buried in this formulaic pablum they keep dishing out but the show just doesn't have the ambition to explore them. Think how much more interesting it would have been if Rittenhouse had succeeded, and the Time Team returned to a present where there was never a Ben Franklin. What would the ramifications be? That's where your story is, not this incessant tail chasing after Rittenhouse who, a season and half in, haven't really accomplished anything to speak of.

I don't think he really believes they're her fault, he was just upset after watching that man die, and that her vision turned into a self-fulfilling prophesy. They're kinda screwed: they come true if she doesn't say anything (e.g., his arm being burnt), but he accidentally made it come true when he was forewarned. What's the solution? I mean hell, she still hasn't told them about the Golden Gate Bridge yet, has she?

 

I'm betting they save the catastrophic "Rittenhouse wins!!!" changes for the finale/cliffhanger. Week to week, it has to be "chase Rittenhouse, stop Rittenhouse, reset", else at some point the changes would pile up to the point where they'd have to make up an entirely fictional present from scratch because our history would be completely gone, and as you say, that's more ambition than this silly time travel show has. At least this season they have a sleeper-agent-of-the-week to stop, instead of Flynn being behind every crisis then escaping every damn time. One disappointing thing is how they just dismissed the ramifications of their actions this week with a cliche "I'm not watching innocent people die". Um...the entire reason Lucy lost her sister was that people survived the Hindenburg who weren't supposed to, and one of their descendants married her "father", preventing his relationship with Lucy's mom and wiping her sister from existence. And that was 80 years ago, imagine that kind of change rippling out across 325 years? I'm not saying it had to go full "Edith Keeler must die", but at least acknowledge that you might've just done the same thing to others throughout history that Flynn did to you?

Edited April 9, 2018 by MarkusXIII

[Jodithgrace]

So they are just completely bypassing the whole clothing thing? They no longer have access to all those costumes and decide to "wing it" when they get there. Then suddenly, there they are all kitted out in authentic, well fitting clothing, without any explanation. They found it all hanging on a clothes line? They stopped at the Salem "Garments R Us?" And paid with what? Grrr.  That kind of thing just annoys me. 

I always wonder about all of the extra people in the world because of these time travelers. Those rescued witches probably had children and grandchildren, etc. for many generations. Yes, over the past season they have killed a few people who didn't get to produce future generations, but i think that this episode more than made up for that..saving 8 women who were supposed to die. Though, I guess a few of them were past childbearing age. 

My goodness..what is the President going to do without the term "witch hunt?" Sorry.

Shows like this always involve more than a little handwavium. I just wish that they would make an effort to pretend some logic. 

Despite my nitpicking, it was a fun episode. 

[LittleIggy]

14 hours ago, Manda317 said:

The Timeless Twitter page had a historical fact about that. The author of The Scarlet Letter was Nathaniel Hawthorne. When I heard the last name, that book came to my mind too. Judge Hathorne was a paternal relative of his, and he actually changed the spelling of his last name due to shame about who he was related to. I thought that was really interesting. They actually published a few different facts. Everyone should check it out.

That’s what my original post was alluding to. If Hathorne was killed, maybe Hawthorne would never have been born. The Hathorne/Hawthorne link is old news to me.

[LittleIggy]

Every time they return to the present, things should be changed due to what they did in the past, IMO. 

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I'm a little squeed by any Flynn/Lucy romantic connection since there were overtones last season that he "possibly" could be her dad or granddad or son or something. I like him as a character, but no hookups with Lucy please. And thank you.

I've always felt their dynamic was more father/daughter than potential lovers (whatever the true relationship might be)

3 hours ago, Lieutenant said:

@saber5055 - Flynn is from the current original timeline, same as all of our Time Team crew.  He was born in 1975 in Croatia and has had a pretty well documented career as an Eastern European NSA asset.  He was visited by a future Lucy who gave him the journal for reasons unknown, which set him on a mission to steal the Mothership and start guerrilla warfare against Rittenhouse.  They are not related.  His mother is Maria Thompkins and his father is Asher Flynn.  Lucy's genealogy is pretty well documented too.  Rittenhouse up one end and down the other. 

There's documentation and there's DNA. More than a few people have discovered their documented father was no relation to them. We started out with Flynn's trip to the Hindenburg, but I'm a bit fuzzy on whether or not that was his first trip. There's wiggle room, should the showrunners want to go that way.

3 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Every time they return to the present, things should be changed due to what they did in the past, IMO. 

Indeed. Major or minor, changes are certain.

[saber5055]

4 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Every time they return to the present, things should be changed due to what they did in the past, IMO. 

The first episodes last season, that happened. Even to our Travelers, with Lucy's sister being "gone" and Lucy being engaged all of a sudden. Now writers have given up on that. Too much trouble I guess.

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Why don't they have Rufus try and destroy the mother ship so that Rittenhouse can't do any more jumps? He didn't need to be at the witch trial stuff.

I don't think they know where the mothership is? Lucy wanted to destroy it when she had a chance, but once she separated from her mother and Emma they don't seem to have a location on it.

20 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

The first episodes last season, that happened. Even to our Travelers, with Lucy's sister being "gone" and Lucy being engaged all of a sudden. Now writers have given up on that. Too much trouble I guess.

I think they want to maximize the time spent in the past or talking about Rittenhouse, which doesn't leave much time for exploring the present. Personally, I think exploring the present has a lot of potential, especially with some of the major changes that have been happening. Just something simple like the expression "witch hunt" not existing could have more ramifications than you think.

I guess Abiah was already married to Ben Franklin's father (since her last name was Franklin), but isn't sending her out of town still a risk to his existence? 

Regarding Jessica, she seemed pretty genuine with her shock about seeing a time machine appear, I'm not so sure she's fully Rittenhouse. But when Wyatt told her about her murder I was expecting her to say she remembered the night of their fight where she got out of the car, but that in her version she got home fine. If Rittenhouse just got rid of her killer, that should have been what happened.

[saber5055]

27 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

But when Wyatt told her about her murder I was expecting her to say she remembered the night of their fight where she got out of the car, but that in her version she got home fine. If Rittenhouse just got rid of her killer, that should have been what happened.

This. Because if she wasn't killed that night, she went home and Wyatt was what, gone? Last season the people back at home base had no knowledge of the past things because the travelers had changed history, so wouldn't Wyatt, once Rittenhouse changed Jessica's past, have no knowledge of her being murdered?

My conclusion: It's really better to not think too deeply about this show.

[enchantingmonkey]

Rufus could have been fascinated with the way the Universe course-corrected him not shooting Scarface, instead of being mad at Jiya.  I know I was.  And hasn't Wyatt killed plenty people when they're on their missions?  I didn't understand why Rufus was so upset to see a guy die.  

[wanderingstar]

Just as I suspected: nothing about Jessica or Jessica/Wyatt interests me.

Flynn: Damn Puritans. Nobody even has a butter knife! Ha!

I liked Abby. I liked that she was determined and outspoken.

Quote

Rufus could have been fascinated with the way the Universe course-corrected him not shooting Scarface, instead of being mad at Jiya.

This seemed odd and out of character for Rufus. Jiya was honest with him, which I'd think he'd be glad about.

[enchantingmonkey]

11 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

This seemed odd and out of character for Rufus. Jiya was honest with him, which I'd think he'd be glad about.

My guess is that they wanted to establish Jiya no longer telling him about her premonitions so we can go through the rigmarole of her not telling him something he should know and its devastating consequences.  But for a guy who's traveling through time and causing changes to his timeline, it seemed more like a WOW-I-want-to-learn-more-about-that moment than please-no-more moment.  Although, human beings can be walking, talking contradictions, so I guess I'll use that for my suspension of disbelief this time.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

But when Wyatt told her about her murder I was expecting her to say she remembered the night of their fight where she got out of the car, but that in her version she got home fine. If Rittenhouse just got rid of her killer, that should have been what happened.

This. Because if she wasn't killed that night, she went home and Wyatt was what, gone?

The way it worked in season one with the changes in Lucy's life, there apparently was a Lucy in that timeline who grew up with her mother and without a sister and who was engaged to that guy. But when she went off on the Hindenberg mission, it was our Lucy who came back. The people in her life remembered one life and Lucy remembered another. So, with Wyatt and Jessica, that fight may have been no big deal for her, just one fight of many. She came home, and that timeline's Wyatt was there, and they may have fought some more, off and on over the years, probably had more fights when she got out of the car and stormed off, he went on deployment a time or two, then he started going off on "assignments" and refused to talk about where he was going, and then he seemed to disappear entirely and she filed for divorce. But that timeline's Wyatt got replaced by our Wyatt, who doesn't remember any of that because to him, Jessica died after that fight six years ago. He remembers it because it was a huge moment in his life. She barely remembers it because it was just another fight.

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Last season the people back at home base had no knowledge of the past things because the travelers had changed history, so wouldn't Wyatt, once Rittenhouse changed Jessica's past, have no knowledge of her being murdered?

He remembers the changes because he was time traveling when the changes happened. While the Time Team was in Hollywood dealing with a sleeper agent, the Mothership was doing whatever they did to change Jessica's life. The people who are time traveling remember the changes. Just like Lucy remembers her sister because she was traveling when it happened. Rufus, Wyatt, and Lucy were all shocked that Jessica was still alive, but the "ground crew" were like, "duh, she's been alive all along."

[Lilac2000]

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

The first episodes last season, that happened. Even to our Travelers, with Lucy's sister being "gone" and Lucy being engaged all of a sudden. Now writers have given up on that. Too much trouble I guess.

I noticed when Lucy told Rufus and others that Jessica was alive that Rufus was shocked but Jiya and Denise were like, "why wouldn't she be?" So little things (and even major things) probably are changing but unless it affects the Time Trio directly we don't necessarily hear about it.

[Sandman]

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

First by dismissing Jiya's vision with that stupid joke, and then, essentially blaming her for the way things went down.

He specifically said he wasn't blaming her, and I believe him. But Rufus's knowledge of the future created the conditions for Sewall to be killed. Where's the line between causality loop and self-fulfilling prophecy?

[possibilities]

It wasn't his knowledge of her vision that caused it, though. It was how they handled it. They leapt to the conclusion that he was a sleeper agent, they roughed him up, they engaged a whole lot of ways that weren't pre-destined according to the vision.

I think it's very interesting that he died anyway, and it does pose the possibility that maybe the universe self-corrected.

On the other hand, they could have taken Jiya's vision to heart and decided to avoid that guy at all costs, so as not to come into conflict or allow her vision to come true. I really didn't like that Rufus told Jiya he didn't want to know anymore. They ought to be analyzing her info and trying to understand what's happening, not just trying to ignore it. I feel so bad for her.

[Dowel Jones]

I'm terrible, because I let out a laugh when Judge Sewall got killed by the conveniently runaway wagon.  Talk about a deux ex machina.  The suddenness of it was just too perfect.  If it hadn't been the wagon, it would have been a meteorite, or maybe even a herd of mutant zebras from Zoo. 

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

OK then. I suppose we'd never have electricity, libraries or fire engines either.

And David Rittenhouse would be on the $100 bill.

And, from the extremely shallow end of the pool, even the evilest of evil evildoers can rock a turtleneck sweater when she wants to.

[tennisgurl]

I still wish they would explain what the deal is with Rittenhouse, and what their actual goal is. All we know is that their a bunch of rich people who control stuff, so...just like regular rich people? I think we are getting closer to their evil plan now, like they want to control the world through some kind of dictatorship, but even that is still iffy. if we are going to be stuck with these guys as our bad guys, I would kind of like to know what they're deal is! 

Jessica seems nice enough, but I dont totally trust her. I think she is probably a Rittenhouse plant, or there is something not right about her. Letting her know the truth might blow back in everyone's face. I do think the love triangle is kind of interesting. For a love triangle anyway. Wyatt was clearly falling for Lucy, and moving past Jessica, and now Jessica is back. However, now he has to confront the fact that Jessica and his romance wasn't as idealistic as he remembered, but she IS here. So, what now? 

I like Flynn, and I dig the vibe he has with the team. I hope they dont whitewash his bad deeds in the past, but I do enjoy him being more of an ally, the asshole guy who the good guys have to team up with because of a mutual enemy. 

The Salem stuff was definitely abridged, and got rid of a lot of the really interesting stuff. No Giles Corey (his wife got a mention though) or Cotton Mather or Tituba, and didnt really touch the political background of the whole thing and went with the weirdly specific thing where only women were accused of being witches when people do witch hunt stuff. Yeah the majority were, but witch was a unisex term back then, and one of the craziest thing about the witch hunt was how the people convicted, while at first were outcast women, it soon started pulling in just about anyone, including young children and wealthy respectable people. A majority were definitely people that were easy pickings and outcasts, but when things were really cooking, it was basically a free for all. But, its only one episode, and there was a bunch more stuff to do, so you only have time for so much. 

Rittenhouse is screwing with my library! Those bastards!

Edited April 10, 2018 by tennisgurl

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I like Flynn, and I dig the vibe he has with the team. I hope they dont whitewash his bad deeds in the past, but I do enjoy him being more of an ally, the asshole guy who the good guys have to team up with because of a mutual enemy. 

Agreed.  Goran is clearly having a ball this season, especially now that Flynn has been let off the chain and allowed to be his crazy, zero-fucks-to-give badass self.  I'm with Malcolm -- Flynn might be cool to hang out with (and definitely handy to have in a fight), but I'd definitely sleep with one eye open as long as he was around!

[bros402]

So how many (tens of? hundreds of?) thousands of people were or were not born as a result of the actions of this episode? Since there are over 25 million direct descendents from the ~125 people on the Mayflower, so, uh, for the people in this episode, has to be at least 10,000 people not born because of those 8 "witches" escaping and those who died who weren't supposed to.

[Mrs. DuRona]

I may have missed something, but what was the significance of San Diego 1980?  

Solid episode, 

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

So how many (tens of? hundreds of?) thousands of people were or were not born as a result of the actions of this episode? Since there are over 25 million direct descendents from the ~125 people on the Mayflower, so, uh, for the people in this episode, has to be at least 10,000 people not born because of those 8 "witches" escaping and those who died who weren't supposed to.

Mr. D and I commented that that should have really messed with the timeline.  We do kind of like the general "fuck it" attitude, though.  Season 1 Lucy would have left the women to their fates.  Season 2 Lucy would have totally saved Lincoln.  

Looking forward to next week.  I'm going to be very sad if this show gets cancelled again.  Maybe they can run it as just a yearly summer show?

[AAEBoiler]

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm terrible, because I let out a laugh when Judge Sewall got killed by the conveniently runaway wagon. 

Whew! I'm glad I wasn't the only one. I actually laughed out loud!

I am going to hell.