S03.E16: Infernal Guinea Pig

[MostlyC]

When a murder investigation reveals the dark side of Hollywood, chloe puts her life on the line to protect and innocent victim; Lucifer comes up with a scheme to help Cain, but when Amenadiel and Maze get involved, things don't go as planned.

[storyskip]

Without a doubt, anything that involves Chloe I 100% do not have any interest in watching.

Every other storyline and character combination, I'm on board with what the writers are writing and interested to see how they develop.

Chloe drags everything down.

[FormerMod-a1]

I was kind of hoping Abel would stay alive and around for a while.  Guess not.

Also, Lucifer is might fine with his wings unfurled.

Yay, Dr Linda and Charlotte.  Dr Linda is so strong, damn.

[janeta]

Ok, I lost the plot somewhere—I thought the whole point was to have Abel kill Cain? So why didn’t Cain die?

[Commando Cody]

It would have been funnier with the 97 year old man.

I was hoping Abel would die by the end of this episode. 

[UNOSEZ]

Didn't care abt too much this episode .. As usual I kinda fast forward when Chloe is doing police work.   Annoyed that amenadiel didn't just beat maze up... Ina need him to get angry soon.. Weeks of mistreatment left and right isn't a good look

[Ria]

So we are losing the Lucifer/Cain partnership for more Lucifer/Chloe? Wrong choice writers. Wrong choice.

Chloe remains almost unwatchable. 

[CaptainTightpants]

I think the best line of the night goes to Amy for "you two idiots running around and raising Abel".

Cain's glee at finding out that Abel ended up in hell was fun. As was Abel's constant flock-dropping comments. Other than that I kind of fast forwarded through the Chloe bits like everyone else upthread. 

And I have to say, as much as I love Maze what the hell is the wardrobe department doing to her?! 

I also agree with Amy here, I don't understand why Maze is so angry either, it is out of character. This whole storyline with Amy/Maze/Linda is a stupid mess.

Edited March 6, 2018 by CaptainTightpants

[enoughcats]

Maybe I shouldn't have watched TV tonight.  I watched the episode and I found myself depressed about half way through it.  I was bored.  Not too long a sermon bored, but why are all these people doing things fast and why won't they slow down and  interact with each other instead of rushing through too damned many subplots?  Oh, yes, let's add a drug cartel to the mix, now all we need is for Abel to come back as a dog who talks but can only be heard by the immortals.

[Athena5217]

The best part of this episode was the movie studio. I loved the monster statues and movie posters in the background. Bog shark sounds like a perfect SyFi movie. 

I have no idea why Abel talked like a guy in a bad Middle Ages comedy or why he was so horny.

My episode grades:

Props department: A+

Lucifer’s outfit: A

Writers: C

Character of Abel: F 

[scarynikki12]

I think Maze is upset by the secret keeping but she’s also denying feelings for Amy. This may resolve with her acknowledging and figuring out those feelings rather than a return of that ship but I think that’s why she’s been acting this way. 

I liked Charlotte confessing her Hell. That sounds awful and it makes sense that she’s still wrestling with it. 

Glad Abel didn’t last and that they didn’t patch things up. 

[flyingdi]

This show gets stupider and stupider every week.  For a show that started out strong, it's really destroying ittself.  Please, creators, can you not have every woman on the show act like a twelve year old.  No more "I'm a professional woman and Oh My God, a Man!". Please, I'll beg if you want.

Why is Charlotte still on this show?  Please explain it to me.  Her storyline is basically over isn't it?  I mean what there was of a storyline.

I am just getting so disappointed with this show!  Did they get new writers or something?

[GaT]

I read a book while I was watching. That pretty much sums up how I feel about this show now.

[UNOSEZ]

7 hours ago, enoughcats said:

now all we need is for Abel to come back as a dog who talks but can only be heard by the immortals.

Still more interesting than chloe

[UNOSEZ]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Chloe has turned into a perpetual whiner, a non-stop complainer.  An incredibly unwatchable character.  The writers need to do better and the actress needs to act better.

I don't want to see men beat up women, not in the real world, and not in a tv show.  I just don't want to see it at all.

I'm inclined to agree on the real world and in most TV show situations... But maze can more than hold her own.. She started the fight.. And she doesn't seem to care that she ruined something for Linda... even if she has no problem breaking amenadiel's heart this also wrecked her friend.. Now if they just wanna pop in a female celestial for an episode to fight maze that'll work too but right now her behavior and her violence need to be dealt with

[UNOSEZ]

I know its his show and as  the  devil he's selfish and narrow minded.. But not even a mention that his brother and his therapist were dating.. That those two dating drove his most loyal friend to the breaking point.. Which then caused the heartbreak of his brother and the human who's been helping him for years?... All so he can play around with his new buddy until he realizes(thanks to his  aforementioned brother's warning)  that playing around could hurt his unhealthy obsession the human wet blanket that is Chloe decker... Gotta do better show Chloe is already boring but at least she's nice.. Can't have me not be interested in either of the leads

[Ria]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

don't want to see men beat up women, not in the real world, and not in a tv show.  I just don't want to see it at all.

Since when is Maze a woman? She’s a demon who has taken this form on earth. We briefly saw her true form early on in the series. In any event, she can hold her own so no problem with her and Amenadiel duking it out.

[Pondlass1]

I'm just fascinated with Chloe's eyebrows. Are they tattooed on?  

I think investigating the murder of the week format needs to go.  It's just annoying sometimes.

[HunterHunted]

14 hours ago, storyskip said:

Chloe drags everything down.

Chloe is Marge Simpson's "Mmmm" in human form. Except for her her crush on Cain and her occasional dorkiness, there's so little personality to the woman except for wet blanket disapproval. I don't know why this show is so intent on keeping the celestial secret from her. One of the best developments character wise to happen to Linda was telling her. And I'd like to think that Chloe could handle it and still be hurt that Lucifer had the means to prove it up, but didn't.  She has a big issue with loyalty and honesty. Lucifer was so afraid of rejection that he didn't trust that Chloe could be loyal to him. Furthermore by not telling her, he put her life in tons of danger multiple times. So I welcome the revelation.

My favorite characters on the show right now are and in this order: Linda, Amenadiel, Trixie, Dan, Lucifer, Cain, Maze, Charlotte, and Chloe. The reason Dan ranks higher than Lucifer is because Lucifer is so hit or miss that it's a crapshoot as to whether we'll be getting "I'm evil," "screw Dad," "stupidly inappropriate and dumb," "skeevy," or "charming smart" Lucifer each week.

1 hour ago, Ria said:

Since when is Maze a woman? She’s a demon who has taken this form on earth. We briefly saw her true form early on in the series. In any event, she can hold her own so no problem with her and Amenadiel duking it out.

She and Lucifer destroyed part of a city block last season.

[enoughcats]

6 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

  1 hour ago, Ria said:

Since when is Maze a woman? She’s a demon who has taken this form on earth. We briefly saw her true form early on in the series. In any event, she can hold her own so no problem with her and Amenadiel duking it out.

That fight with Amenadude would have felt better if she had her demon face on.  Maybe they fired the makeup team,?  

What is Chloe's reason for being?  Her daughter?  gets set aside for her job, etc.  She never gets calls from school to bring lunch etc.  Dan has been painted much more interesting from the stand up comedy to the 'dating' Charlotte. Chloe had a thing for solving her Father's murder, since then.........a void......and this is the problem.

[Writing Wrongs]

12 hours ago, flyingdi said:

Why is Charlotte still on this show?  Please explain it to me.  Her storyline is basically over isn't it?  I mean what there was of a storyline.

I don't really get it either. Until they tell her the truth, nothing is going to make sense to her.

Do you think they will eventually have God show up and deal with Lucifer?

Edited March 6, 2018 by Writing Wrongs

[tessathereaper]

2 hours ago, Ria said:

Since when is Maze a woman? She’s a demon who has taken this form on earth. We briefly saw her true form early on in the series. In any event, she can hold her own so no problem with her and Amenadiel duking it out.

Right?  I have no issues with supernatural men and women beating the hell out of each other, even if the woman loses(or human men against supernatural women for that matter).

[flyingdi]

1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I don't really get it either. Until they tell her the truth, nothing is going to make sense to her.

Do you think they will eventually have God show up and deal with Lucifer?

I do think God will eventually show up towards the end of the series but by then I will probably have stopped watching.

[Rushmoras]

Lol, Abel got mowed down by a truck in the end. That's some funny shit from Scary Movie 2.

Also, to the poster who wanted Amenedude to beat up Maze. Like, um, how? He's human, she's a demon. If anything, Maze held back to not brake his bones.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Rushmoras

[MorganSte]

2 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

15 hours ago, flyingdi said:

Why is Charlotte still on this show?  Please explain it to me.  Her storyline is basically over isn't it?  I mean what there was of a storyline.

I don't really get it either. Until they tell her the truth, nothing is going to make sense to her.

Didn't Lucifer tell Charlotte last season/earlier this season that he was the devil and she was in Hell?   Or did I just dream that?

Yet more character assassination of Lucifer this week.  Now he's breaking deals!  And his knowledge of his own "realm" could be better.  

I want to mention something that's been bugging me about Maze.  Yes, she's on Earth.  And, great let her experience "being human".  But Lucifer is still her boss.  She was literally *made* for him.  Enough with the insubordination GO FIND ABEL!  There's no reason why Lucifer should do his own grunt work.  Maybe Lucifer needs to get some new minions.  

[Helena Dax]

I'm not sure I liked the twist of Abel as the asshole brother, but I loved that his flirting included bragging about his flock. "Woman, my flock is yours" sounds amazing. And I sort of like that he died because it was a nice dark touch. 

And yeah, Chloe is boring beyond words and she needs to know asap. 

[CheshireCat]

Unfortunately, I don't think Chloe knowing is going to happen any time soon. I seem to recall someone associated with the show saying so. Don't remember who or where. Might have been a twitter response.

[Ria]

3 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Unfortunately, I don't think Chloe knowing is going to happen any time soon. I seem to recall someone associated with the show saying so. Don't remember who or where. Might have been a twitter response.

Chloe learning the truth is the only way to salvage her character. Right now she’s stuck doing the boring procedural aspects of the show and is completely cut off from everything the other major characters are involved in. Personally I don’t think she is working as a character at all and should be written out. But recognizing that’s not going to happen, the only other way to make her relevant is to let her finally learn the truth. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ria

[Jlina]

I find Chloe to be the same character we were presented with, no growth whatsoever.  BUT.....I like that about her, too. Thank Father she's not a female Lucifer!  Because as someone said upthread you never know which Lucifer you're getting from week to week.  So, it could be worse.  I like her best when she's whimsical (and I think she's pretty, btw)- but I also don't fault the only actor on the show who has not been allowed to change from the person she was from the beginning. Plus her and Dan really accomplished something with an amicable breakup and co-parenting. Somehow Chloe just accepts reality and moves around it -being remarkably accepting of peoples' quirks and motives -  maintaining an end goal no matter what goes on around her. I think that's amazing (if it were a real thing in real life anyway.) I  actually love her and Lucifer's devotion to their being partners, and especially accepting of whom the other is.

Charlotte must still be around so she can be the next big celestial reveal.

Men hitting women...yeah, that'd suck, but then so did Amenidiel just standing there letting someone/anyone beat the shit out of him. At least he fired back with Linda's truth.  Been loving Linda's glasses and sincere therapist face lately. 

 

Cain was highly amusing, there's that.  And Dan was actually looking really dreamy for a change this episode. They really downplay his good looks.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Jlina

[theatremouse]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:53 PM, janeta said:

Ok, I lost the plot somewhere—I thought the whole point was to have Abel kill Cain? So why didn’t Cain die?

That was just their hypothesis. They tried it. It was disproved.

[tennisgurl]

I keep wondering if they will ever bring up that Lucifer actually killed his own brother, and what a mess that was. I mean, it wasn't as big a mess as it could have been, but it felt like it was a big deal at the time. Plus, while Amenadiel is now involved with the Cain plot, we haven't really had much talk about their own complicated brotherly relationship. Maybe its coming?  

I liked Amenadiel and Maze for quite awhile, but now this "betrayal" plot just seems like a time waster. Amenadiel and Linda are a good couple, and it would be nice to see Maze try to deal with that, even though she is still getting used to this whole "human" thing. As for the fight, I dont mind men and women getting into fighting scenes in action shows,especially if they happen to be devine/demonic beings, or on the same foot when it came to combat. For a long time, women were kept out of action scenes because studios and networks didn't want to see women get hit, so the ended up as damsels or just given a fight with a female baddie who existed so she could fight someone. Its super lame. 

Was I the only one who thought Lucifer's plan was not the greatest? Cain still killed Abel, so even if Abel was alive for a bit, he still murdered him, it doesn't really change anything. They didn't time travel. 

I did enjoy Abel and his bragging about his many goats, and I still like the Cain stuff. The supernatural plots make this show so much better. And I always enjoy Dans love of cheesy movies and bad action. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Bruinsfan]

How exactly did Cain know that overcoming one's guilt allows freedom from Hell? Lucifer said that was a secret he'd never told any human being before, so how is Cain, who's been on earth all this time having no contact with anyone in the afterlife in on its metaphysical workings?

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

How exactly did Cain know that overcoming one's guilt allows freedom from Hell? Lucifer said that was a secret he'd never told any human being before, so how is Cain, who's been on earth all this time having no contact with anyone in the afterlife in on its metaphysical workings?

My guess is that humans don't know doesn't mean that celestial beings don't know?

Edited March 7, 2018 by CheshireCat

[Bruinsfan]

You're thinking maybe Cain has been in contact with another angel or somesuch that spilled the news? My impression is that demons can't get out of Hell without someone like Lucifer providing transportation.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Bruinsfan

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

How exactly did Cain know that overcoming one's guilt allows freedom from Hell? Lucifer said that was a secret he'd never told any human being before, so how is Cain, who's been on earth all this time having no contact with anyone in the afterlife in on its metaphysical workings?

Because it's trite and obvious and preposterous that no one in-show universe ever figured it out on their own?

[thuganomics85]

The whole "cartel/criminal organization is secretly using a movie studio for their nefarious purposes" is certainly a popular idea on television.  Off the top of my head, I remember Blindspot doing something similar this season.  I did like that the show remembered Dan loves those types of dumb, B-movies, and got all excited about "The Plunge."

Abel coming back and accidentally being put in a woman's body was a decent idea, but the show just seem to really on the gag of him being a horndog and hitting on women while he was in her body.  Although the stuff involving his "flock" was amusing.  I did enjoy seeing Cain's petty, vindictive side, like him celebrating after he found out Abel got sent to Hell.

Jealousy is not a good look on Maze.  Good thing Amenadiel can take a punch or two (or three.  Or five.)

Not quite sure what the long term plan is for Charlotte, but I enjoy the stuff with her and Linda, and though Tricia Helfer did a great job in her final scene. 

[lorbeer]

On 6.03.2018 at 5:36 PM, Pondlass1 said:

I'm just fascinated with Chloe's eyebrows. Are they tattooed on? 

I know right? She looks like Spock :) Wich I guess is 'only logical'.. she's as dull..........

[Bruinsfan]

19 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Because it's trite and obvious and preposterous that no one in-show universe ever figured it out on their own?

This is a show where we have proof of an active God that stands in judgment of people, lobbing curses and such. The guilt = imprisonment in Hell revelation means that people with no conscience, generally the very worst of the worst who commit atrocities without a pang of remorse, get a free pass to Heaven. Somehow I don't think that's an obvious conclusion given the Judeo-Christian basis of the show.

[Ria]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

This is a show where we have proof of an active God that stands in judgment of people, lobbing curses and such. The guilt = imprisonment in Hell revelation means that people with no conscience, generally the very worst of the worst who commit atrocities without a pang of remorse, get a free pass to Heaven. Somehow I don't think that's an obvious conclusion given the Judeo-Christian basis of the show.

That’s been my problem with the show’s concept of hell too. Decent people with a conscious will go to hell because good people often beat themselves up over things they can’t even control while psychopaths or truly evil people convinced they were committing genocide  for the greater good, skate free. 

[Loandbehold]

Although certainly not stated, I believe the psychopaths, sociopaths, and other truly evil people do not avoid or escape Hell. If you're evil, you go to hell. If you can experience remorse, you might be able to leave. These categories of people either don't recognize right and wrong or don't care. Therefore, they can't truly rue their evil acts and are doomed to remain in Hell forever.  Then again, I'm a heathen, so what do I know about the workings of God and angels.

[TobinAlbers]

Chloe’s put out look when Pierce said that Lucifer’s coming with me was hilarious. She wasn’t happy being left out of Lucicain. She knows they’re the best!

I get why it didn't happen, but Michael Rosenbaum playing Abel would've been an absolute delight and hoot.

Pierce’s glee at Abel being in Hell. “I told everyone Abel was the asshat but no one would listen.’ Then his trying to put Abel in a dead body and not having it that Abel gets a young body to annoy him for a possibly another 70 years. Cain reeeeeeally hated him, LOL.

It’s interesting that they muddied the waters that Abel was hellbound due to his gluttony and plotting to kill Cain ( I know, I know - Cain’s version of events). Cain murdering Abel may have been slightly justifiable homicide. Hee.

Also interesting that Cain in his journey with Lucifer is finding a kind of bond with him that he didn’t with Abel. He absolutely loathes Abel but he relates to Lucifer.  I’m starting to wonder….what if Cain’s mark is part of a loooooooong plan of ‘Dad’s’ that is to ultimately serve to enlighten both beings? Like he knew they would/needed to cross paths at this point in their lives and work together and the way to make that happen was to give Cain that specific curse. To what end? Not sure yet since Lucifer just reneged on his deal.

Abel’s ‘Ashes to ashes dust to dust, you  bastard!’ celebration dance over Cain’s body was everything.

Is there a reason why they can’t bring Abel back again in another body? Wouldn’t it be interesting if he didn’t go to Hell but to Purgatory or Heaven where Lucifer can’t grab him again?

I’m so glad Tom Welling is back on tv, looking fine, and having some fun. He’s not doing bad work in a team up and not playing the goody goody.

[Pindrop]

This is the first episode I haven’t bothered watching, because:-

• The inconsistent scheduling over the last few weeks.
• Too many characters and too many B, C and Z plots that are of no interest to me.
• The scitzophrenic nature of Lucifer’s character. When he is on form he is great, but when the writing is off he is awful. Other characters are also regularly acting out of character, which is a sign of desperation from the writers.
• The yawning chasm of anti-fun, anti-levity and anti-charisma that is Chloe.

 I think I might be done with the show.

[wilnil]

23 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Although certainly not stated, I believe the psychopaths, sociopaths, and other truly evil people do not avoid or escape Hell. If you're evil, you go to hell. If you can experience remorse, you might be able to leave. These categories of people either don't recognize right and wrong or don't care. Therefore, they can't truly rue their evil acts and are doomed to remain in Hell forever.  Then again, I'm a heathen, so what do I know about the workings of God and angels.

The other thing never stated is whether being able to "leave Hell" has anything to do with getting into Heaven. Given that Mom decided she needed the flaming sword to cut through the gates, I figure Heaven doesn't just by default accept every soul not trapped in Hell.

So where does a soul go once it's stopped doing what kept it in its hell-loop? Maybe Purgatory (where you presumably can earn a ticket to Heaven), Limbo (which doesn't sound worth it), or you just get to haunt the Earth as a ghost? Or maybe you're still in Hell the place, just not "Hell: The Experience!" Someone on the writing staff could have fun with answering this question, and I kind of hope they do.

[NutMeg]

I remember reading years ago a philosophical essay by a prominent author which put the Cain/Abel fratricide under a different lens that saw it absolving Cain. I wish I could remember more, or the exact source, but I remember getting out of it that clearly Cain wasn't the murderer he was portrayed as but rather the victim of circumstances / interpretation. Again, from what I remember, Cain was the good one, Abel the offensive one, not sure about why or how, I think about how religious authorities of the time deemed them, I'll check if I still have this book somewhere...    

[Chaosiswelcome]

Yeah, it's odd they didn't mention Lucifer killing Uriel. I found it odd they never really closed that out, beyond Lucifer and Mum's trip to hell.

I disliked almost everything about this episode.

Maze is acting loony.

The only redeeming quality for me is when Lucifer finally remembers he has things he can lose. He really makes every darn thing about him and his daddy issues (but that is who he is)

I did enjoy Abel's ridiculous dialog about his flock.

[galaxychaser]

Maze is ridiculous in not letting Linda/Amy date. 

Chloe eyebrows are horrible.

Abel was hilarious.